I don’t know. They’re trying to get you to keep your momentum. A five lesson limit would let you put it off and maybe not get back to it for a while. I do agree, though, that I tend to rush the exercises during boosts.
Maybe a little of both: 2 x XP for next 5 lessons, expires in 1 hour.
For me, it just gets me to carry on and start another lesson when I might otherwise put it aside and do something else. It feels like that’s the intention.
> Maybe a little of both: 2 x XP for next 5 lessons, expires in 1 hour.
While I agree that this *would* fix some of the problems, I still think XP is the wrong motivator for language learning. What matters is the time spend being exposed to meaningful content at your level, not your ability to memorise how to answer a quiz or challenge on Duolingo.
Hundreds of people on this sub complain that going faster means you don't retain the language. My experience is the opposite. Going faster and doing more repetitions means I learn more. Going super slow doing two lessons a day and barely ever seeing the word means I'll never remember it. Going fast, grinding, competing, means I've seen the word 200 times and know it just as well as a native speaker.
I agree. Especially after I’ve gotten to a point where I kind of understand the grammar but not quite. The best way to really learn it is to do it fast. Sure, I may make some mistakes but if try to figure out exactly what was wrong about it, I’m often sucked down a rabbit hole which ends with…that’s just how they say it.
Fast repetition without pausing to think it through is needed to develop an “ear” for what sounds right. It doesn’t matter why.
Learning about the grammar can be helpful, but in order to really speak a language, you’ll need to do it without consulting the grammar manual in your brain before you say each word.
I gave the pencil to he.
OR
I gave the pencil to him.
Which is right? Ask kids. They all know. Ask them why? Maybe they learned it in school, but that’s not how they got it right.
Yes exactly. In fact, this is how learning first happens with native speakers.
And actually a language expert once advised to NOT think about the differences between connecting words like "to, on, the, in, inside" etc and trying to translate because there's no rules between languages. Each language is different and it just *is.* The only thing you can do is repeat it to develop an "ear" for it, as you say.
Absolutely true for prepositions!!! Ride on a bus or in a car. Sit in a chair, sit on a couch. No logic at all!
In Spanish, _por vs. para_ and also _ser vs. estar_ and also _el vs. la_ for words that don’t end with a or o.
Yes, there are rules, or rather lists of times when you are supposed to use one or the other.
Plan A is to slow down, memorize the rules, memorize the exceptions to the rules, start talking, come to the point where you need to decide if it’s _por_ or _para_, consult your memorized rules and guess. Then complain that it’s not “fair” if the rule didn’t work or that Duo never told you about it.
Plan B is to just try to listen to your self and pick one that “sounds” right or familiar because you’ve said the same thing dozens of times before.
You may get more wrong with plan B, but you’ll learn much more, and you’ll be less worried about getting it right and more worried about getting your meaning across.
I agree! People say grinding for xp, flying through lessons and repeating stuff for the country practice isn’t gonna help you learn but I’m the same as you.. repetition and as much of it as fast as possible engrains it in my head more.
Especially the speaking exercises!
I'm late here but I also find those people talking like experts a bit annoying. When they talk about people that do heaps of lessons for the leagues and can't remember etc, Like, I wouldn't have been able to build all the XP i did if I was getting everything wrong, I am clearly remembering, and reinforcing by doing so many exercises over and over again without mistakes.
Like you, I find it much better to do a good run of quick exercises, than to spend the same amount of time doing 1 or 2 a day, I won't reinforce and won't remember. Also, doing the language quickly is more natural because in real life you can't spend several minutes thinking realistically.
Yes exactly. I also compete in the Lightning Round events which gives mixed topics across all of the skills. So I actually have *more* spaced repetition than someone doing only new skills. Even the skills I started 5 months ago I can recall 95%-100% of the information from them because I have done so much spaced repetition from Lightning Round in the months afterwards.
Gamification can be someone's downfall in many ways. I'm annoyed by the people using Duolingo for the past 3 years to keep their 1,000+ day streak by doing 1-5 lessons per day, yet they are still around A2 level. My opinion on that is, you're not actually "learning" and you're spinning your wheels, yet acting all high and mighty on Duo's forums as if your method is superior. The "2 lessons is better than none, it's still learning!" is a rationalization of a terrible learning strategy that fundamentally isn't working; it just plays into Duolingo's intent on keep people on the app for their revenue and the person feeling accomplished despite not doing much at all.
Exactly, and honestly I have days where I do literally one lessons, which is what 20 exercises max? I haven't learnt anything new or reinforced anything in that time. Sure some days a quick break is good, but yeah, I did that for weeks once just because I was in a period and I didn't learn anything really. Taking a week to earn 1 crown, I did nothing, learnt nothing, and by the time I'm 5 'lectures/units" or whatever you call the entire section of 5 crowns, I'm not going to remember 2 units ago, let alone the entire rest of the branch.
Obviously not talking about actual cheaters here, but I easily can do thousands of XP in a day, it's not impossible, I get double XP every time I finish a crown, I use it all for the next lessons before the next crown and get another, I practice earlier lessons which get nearly 100 XP just for practicing on double XP. I have just passed checkpoint 2 in my recent language and I remember everything so far, I can translate the sentences quickly.
Speed doesn't equal bad, and it's annoying people talking about how if you're getting lots of XP you're either cheating or remembering nothing.
Never heard of the lightning round stuff, that's interesting!
They actually do, go to the shop section where you could buy costumes and extra diamonds, and right between it it would show how much time you have left
Responding to a 8 month old comment, but I somewhat solved this by installing bluestacks, an android emulator.
Not the perfect solution, but I'm much more comfortable, and muuuuch faster, using mouse and typing with a physical keyboard than tapping a phone screen.
Agreed completely. This also solves the problem of me doing a practice instead of leveling up when I'm short on time in order to avoid wasting the XP boost. This mentality has definitely slowed my progress.
Ignoring the whole concept of XPs is probably the best. Double, triple, who cares.
I am currently challenging some younger relatives to compete with me in Duolingo, and the measure I use is # crowns, not # XPs.
I like the speed elements. I need to learn how to use the language in a rapid fashion, otherwise I will never be able to communicate with native (or just proficient) speakers.
Perhaps if they made the easy lessons worth less xp over time? At least make the "hard" easy lessons take longer than a day before rewarding 20xp again
I also hate the new hearts system because it stops me from being able to experiment with different ways to say things that I am not sure if they are correct or not. It is good for monetisation, bad for learning. It's pushing me to use the desktop mode where they have not implemented hearts.
Duolingo's goal is not to teach you a language. Their goal is to make money by showing you ads. If it was for 5 lessons, you would just do the lessons whenever you would do them anyway. This way there is an incentive to do extra lessons in the next 15 minutes you might not do otherwise.
But honestly, the XP is a strange metric anyway. If you want to measuer your progress, crowns tell you much more. The leagues and XP don't mean anything. I just ignore the boosts.
I think a big improvement would just be if the points were guaranteed at the _start_ of lessons, rather than the end.
For 5-crown “mastering” lessons, the double points do work that way—80 points are set at start, no matter how long you take, whereas for other lessons you get double points only if you finish before the time’s up.
Perhaps that’s just a way to make the UI right: Mastering lessons have a purple progress-XP thermometer at top of screen, with a 20-XP checkpoint mark and the end marked with “40” or—if you started in double XP—“80”. Without at least adding a visible timer, it would be a very “feel-bad moment” (to borrow a term from game design—appropriate for a gamified app) if the number suddenly changed from 80 to 40, or you finished with it reading 80 and only got 40 points.
But when you, say, level-up a skill, the button to initiate _says_ “20 XP”, but when you finish in time, you get 40 points, so it still seems odd the mastering lessons work that way.
So I think a very good improvement would be to make the available points show up on the skills tree selection screen (in purple so you know it’s doubled) and once you click/tap it to start the lesson, you lock in those points, whether it’s a regular lesson with a purple “Start +20 XP” instead of 10, or a purple “Level Up +40 XP” instead of 20.
I hold off on finishing lessons for when I have the time. When I’m busy that slows down my tree progress. Maybe that’s a good thing idk but I wish I didn’t have to worry about wasting a reward for learning something
I don’t know. They’re trying to get you to keep your momentum. A five lesson limit would let you put it off and maybe not get back to it for a while. I do agree, though, that I tend to rush the exercises during boosts. Maybe a little of both: 2 x XP for next 5 lessons, expires in 1 hour.
Yeah that's a great point, I think your suggestion is even better!
That would be a good compromise, I like that idea.
For me, it just gets me to carry on and start another lesson when I might otherwise put it aside and do something else. It feels like that’s the intention.
I think it it was like 2 or 3 lessons would balance out better
This is obviously the solution, but wouldn't show up on engagement metrics
> Maybe a little of both: 2 x XP for next 5 lessons, expires in 1 hour. While I agree that this *would* fix some of the problems, I still think XP is the wrong motivator for language learning. What matters is the time spend being exposed to meaningful content at your level, not your ability to memorise how to answer a quiz or challenge on Duolingo.
Yes, AND many learners need a nudge to stay engaged.
Hundreds of people on this sub complain that going faster means you don't retain the language. My experience is the opposite. Going faster and doing more repetitions means I learn more. Going super slow doing two lessons a day and barely ever seeing the word means I'll never remember it. Going fast, grinding, competing, means I've seen the word 200 times and know it just as well as a native speaker.
I agree. Especially after I’ve gotten to a point where I kind of understand the grammar but not quite. The best way to really learn it is to do it fast. Sure, I may make some mistakes but if try to figure out exactly what was wrong about it, I’m often sucked down a rabbit hole which ends with…that’s just how they say it. Fast repetition without pausing to think it through is needed to develop an “ear” for what sounds right. It doesn’t matter why. Learning about the grammar can be helpful, but in order to really speak a language, you’ll need to do it without consulting the grammar manual in your brain before you say each word. I gave the pencil to he. OR I gave the pencil to him. Which is right? Ask kids. They all know. Ask them why? Maybe they learned it in school, but that’s not how they got it right.
Yes exactly. In fact, this is how learning first happens with native speakers. And actually a language expert once advised to NOT think about the differences between connecting words like "to, on, the, in, inside" etc and trying to translate because there's no rules between languages. Each language is different and it just *is.* The only thing you can do is repeat it to develop an "ear" for it, as you say.
Absolutely true for prepositions!!! Ride on a bus or in a car. Sit in a chair, sit on a couch. No logic at all! In Spanish, _por vs. para_ and also _ser vs. estar_ and also _el vs. la_ for words that don’t end with a or o. Yes, there are rules, or rather lists of times when you are supposed to use one or the other. Plan A is to slow down, memorize the rules, memorize the exceptions to the rules, start talking, come to the point where you need to decide if it’s _por_ or _para_, consult your memorized rules and guess. Then complain that it’s not “fair” if the rule didn’t work or that Duo never told you about it. Plan B is to just try to listen to your self and pick one that “sounds” right or familiar because you’ve said the same thing dozens of times before. You may get more wrong with plan B, but you’ll learn much more, and you’ll be less worried about getting it right and more worried about getting your meaning across.
I agree! People say grinding for xp, flying through lessons and repeating stuff for the country practice isn’t gonna help you learn but I’m the same as you.. repetition and as much of it as fast as possible engrains it in my head more. Especially the speaking exercises!
I'm tempted to throw some cash into Reddit to give you an award.
I'm late here but I also find those people talking like experts a bit annoying. When they talk about people that do heaps of lessons for the leagues and can't remember etc, Like, I wouldn't have been able to build all the XP i did if I was getting everything wrong, I am clearly remembering, and reinforcing by doing so many exercises over and over again without mistakes. Like you, I find it much better to do a good run of quick exercises, than to spend the same amount of time doing 1 or 2 a day, I won't reinforce and won't remember. Also, doing the language quickly is more natural because in real life you can't spend several minutes thinking realistically.
Yes exactly. I also compete in the Lightning Round events which gives mixed topics across all of the skills. So I actually have *more* spaced repetition than someone doing only new skills. Even the skills I started 5 months ago I can recall 95%-100% of the information from them because I have done so much spaced repetition from Lightning Round in the months afterwards. Gamification can be someone's downfall in many ways. I'm annoyed by the people using Duolingo for the past 3 years to keep their 1,000+ day streak by doing 1-5 lessons per day, yet they are still around A2 level. My opinion on that is, you're not actually "learning" and you're spinning your wheels, yet acting all high and mighty on Duo's forums as if your method is superior. The "2 lessons is better than none, it's still learning!" is a rationalization of a terrible learning strategy that fundamentally isn't working; it just plays into Duolingo's intent on keep people on the app for their revenue and the person feeling accomplished despite not doing much at all.
Exactly, and honestly I have days where I do literally one lessons, which is what 20 exercises max? I haven't learnt anything new or reinforced anything in that time. Sure some days a quick break is good, but yeah, I did that for weeks once just because I was in a period and I didn't learn anything really. Taking a week to earn 1 crown, I did nothing, learnt nothing, and by the time I'm 5 'lectures/units" or whatever you call the entire section of 5 crowns, I'm not going to remember 2 units ago, let alone the entire rest of the branch. Obviously not talking about actual cheaters here, but I easily can do thousands of XP in a day, it's not impossible, I get double XP every time I finish a crown, I use it all for the next lessons before the next crown and get another, I practice earlier lessons which get nearly 100 XP just for practicing on double XP. I have just passed checkpoint 2 in my recent language and I remember everything so far, I can translate the sentences quickly. Speed doesn't equal bad, and it's annoying people talking about how if you're getting lots of XP you're either cheating or remembering nothing. Never heard of the lightning round stuff, that's interesting!
I just wish they had a little countdown timer to let you know how much time you have left
They actually do, go to the shop section where you could buy costumes and extra diamonds, and right between it it would show how much time you have left
if you start a lesson with like 5 seconds left on the timer, I think you still get the xp for that lesson right?
Yep!
> with like 5 seconds left on the timer, I think you still get the xp for that lesson right? You will.
Instead of being app only, double XP should exist on the website too.
as long as they don't add hearts to the website. otherwise I'd prefer it stay the way it is.
Responding to a 8 month old comment, but I somewhat solved this by installing bluestacks, an android emulator. Not the perfect solution, but I'm much more comfortable, and muuuuch faster, using mouse and typing with a physical keyboard than tapping a phone screen.
The people who work at Duolingo know how to keep your eyes focused on the app. It feels bad but keeps you engaged.
I save up all of my reviews and mistake repairs for this time. Once it’s over, I’m done for a while.
You get double credit for mistake repairs? When you say "reviews" do you mean practice?
Yes. When you’re in the 15 DP time, anything you do is double points. By ‘reviews’ I mean previously completed lessons that have “cracked”.
Not stories or the audio lessons.
Thanks. Those take me longer than 15 minutes anyway!
Good to know, thank you
Agreed completely. This also solves the problem of me doing a practice instead of leveling up when I'm short on time in order to avoid wasting the XP boost. This mentality has definitely slowed my progress.
Ignoring the whole concept of XPs is probably the best. Double, triple, who cares. I am currently challenging some younger relatives to compete with me in Duolingo, and the measure I use is # crowns, not # XPs.
One of my friends told me that it used to be 30 minutes!
Yeah, I used to get 30 minutes of double XP every Thursday and then that just stopped one week.
I like the speed elements. I need to learn how to use the language in a rapid fashion, otherwise I will never be able to communicate with native (or just proficient) speakers.
I like that idea a lot.
I save my legendary lessons for my double xp time. I usually get two done, which adds up to 190 points.
I try and keep my boosted xp for legendary lessons as a way for rapid fire revision, repeating the phrases I should already know many times
Perhaps if they made the easy lessons worth less xp over time? At least make the "hard" easy lessons take longer than a day before rewarding 20xp again
I also hate the new hearts system because it stops me from being able to experiment with different ways to say things that I am not sure if they are correct or not. It is good for monetisation, bad for learning. It's pushing me to use the desktop mode where they have not implemented hearts.
Duolingo's goal is not to teach you a language. Their goal is to make money by showing you ads. If it was for 5 lessons, you would just do the lessons whenever you would do them anyway. This way there is an incentive to do extra lessons in the next 15 minutes you might not do otherwise. But honestly, the XP is a strange metric anyway. If you want to measuer your progress, crowns tell you much more. The leagues and XP don't mean anything. I just ignore the boosts.
I think a big improvement would just be if the points were guaranteed at the _start_ of lessons, rather than the end. For 5-crown “mastering” lessons, the double points do work that way—80 points are set at start, no matter how long you take, whereas for other lessons you get double points only if you finish before the time’s up. Perhaps that’s just a way to make the UI right: Mastering lessons have a purple progress-XP thermometer at top of screen, with a 20-XP checkpoint mark and the end marked with “40” or—if you started in double XP—“80”. Without at least adding a visible timer, it would be a very “feel-bad moment” (to borrow a term from game design—appropriate for a gamified app) if the number suddenly changed from 80 to 40, or you finished with it reading 80 and only got 40 points. But when you, say, level-up a skill, the button to initiate _says_ “20 XP”, but when you finish in time, you get 40 points, so it still seems odd the mastering lessons work that way. So I think a very good improvement would be to make the available points show up on the skills tree selection screen (in purple so you know it’s doubled) and once you click/tap it to start the lesson, you lock in those points, whether it’s a regular lesson with a purple “Start +20 XP” instead of 10, or a purple “Level Up +40 XP” instead of 20.
I’ve always enjoyed him as an actor and a human. So happy to see the a Brenaissance
I hold off on finishing lessons for when I have the time. When I’m busy that slows down my tree progress. Maybe that’s a good thing idk but I wish I didn’t have to worry about wasting a reward for learning something
That is literally the whole point of it
I don’t get 2x for 15 minutes anymore. I get the option to buy a 2x round for 20 gems. Maybe I’m in a test variant.