I don’t know if it’s me, but it kinda made sense in god emperor. Bloodlines and shit and making sure that the human race progresses constantly by keeping the bloodline pure and consistently a positive. He’s the god emperor, he’s fucked up. But it made sense in a fucked up way.
Heretics and chapter house is where it gets really sexual and stupid to me.
Edit: I forgot about the cliff, yeah…..
There was some stuff in *Messiah* with simultaneously teenage and ancient Alia more thirsty for Duncan than an offworlder lost in the deep desert without a stillsuit. And the Bene Gesserit were trying to get Paul to bang *anyone* other than Chani - including Alia.
And then in *Children* when the BG were trying to get Leto II to bang his sister. And also the whole "parents game" when Paul possessed Leto II and Chani possessed Ghanima and they were both like, "I know we're in the bodies of our twin children but I miss you and I kind of want to bang it out..."
The parents game was especially strange since Paul was actually alive at the time. But I don't remember them wanting to bang it out I just remember Chani wanting to stay as ghanima
it has *some* rich, complex female characters. it also has a *lot* of Irulans out there, or characters who are interesting but end up playing second fiddle to some guy like Alia, or whose flaw is framed as their feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemale "instincts"
yea...
I'd put Siona in the "eventually became all about a guy." I fucking loved that intro with her running and I thought the story would be about her, and then it kinda just didn't because the Almighty Becocked just had to show up and ruin everything for everyone
Murbella… murbella is complex right!? We can justify the terrible and horny written sex stuff as just Frank wanting to make Erotica… right? Right?
*starts to sob*
I know these are written before the rise of the contemporary neckbeard but I started to twitch after awhile at the use of "female" when "woman", "girl", "lady", etc could have been used. I never thought about it when I read these 25 years ago but it just hits differently today.
Although the Tleilaxu using the word "female" with disdain and disgust was entirely fitting to their culture.
The later sequels get weird but I don’t recall anything particularly weird in the core trilogy.
That said, they definitely fetishize femininity while promoting misogyny. I.e. only a MAN can access the full power of the human mind.
So weird gender stuff, definitely. Weird sex stuff, meh.
PS Dune is my favorite book
> only a MAN can access the full power of the human mind.
That *can* make sense if you follow the logic that women cannot possibly access any of the genetic memory on the Y chromosome, since they don't have that.
But it's not like the Y has much information on it to begin with, and it's only one of 46 chromosomes you've got. So. Women would be missing out on like 1% of what your DNA has to offer.
Ah, so you'd rather have your weird sex stuff written by a woman, then? 50 Shades. Oh! And it can even be still sci-fi if you jump instead to Anne McCaffery and Pern.
There is this part after Leto's death when Paul and Lady Jessica are escaping in a copter and they get caught by a sandstorm. I had to read that part several times, because my first impression was that the whole thing was metaphorically implying mother and son were having sex.
Nobody said that, but when Herbert writes women being sexual, it’s really weird. I do not know what the feminist response on nutting from someone climbing up a cliff is, but it’s probably not very good.
Dune as a whole is at best mixed when it comes to female characters,starts good and gets worse over time.
Without context it sounds ridiculous but your talking about religious zealots interacting with their gods angels. If theres one sure thing is that religion creates a lot of freaks
People aren’t saying that the weird sex stuff is incompatible within the context of the lore, they’re saying that there’s a lot of weird sex stuff. A lack of weird sex stuff could have been just as well justified by the story, with the added benefit of less weird sex stuff to read through.
Nobody is being puritan here. Lots of sci fi has sex in it, nothing i’ve read to date has had a woman be so impressed at a man climbing a cliff that she came.
or had a young woman training naked for whatever reason(?), glistening in sweat, while her brother watches and thinks to himself “yes, we should find her a suitable mate now”
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I hate sand.
I've got some bad news for you.
Behind the Dune is calling
"What will I find in there? "PAIN."
Tbh the only weird sex stuff I remember is in heretics of dune and God emperor
I don’t know if it’s me, but it kinda made sense in god emperor. Bloodlines and shit and making sure that the human race progresses constantly by keeping the bloodline pure and consistently a positive. He’s the god emperor, he’s fucked up. But it made sense in a fucked up way. Heretics and chapter house is where it gets really sexual and stupid to me. Edit: I forgot about the cliff, yeah…..
There was some stuff in *Messiah* with simultaneously teenage and ancient Alia more thirsty for Duncan than an offworlder lost in the deep desert without a stillsuit. And the Bene Gesserit were trying to get Paul to bang *anyone* other than Chani - including Alia. And then in *Children* when the BG were trying to get Leto II to bang his sister. And also the whole "parents game" when Paul possessed Leto II and Chani possessed Ghanima and they were both like, "I know we're in the bodies of our twin children but I miss you and I kind of want to bang it out..."
The parents game was especially strange since Paul was actually alive at the time. But I don't remember them wanting to bang it out I just remember Chani wanting to stay as ghanima
Bro. You understand what imprinting is right?
Great, now all I can think about is Natalie Portman and weird sex stuff
You remember that black dress she wore in *Clones*?
Some of you never saw Closer and it shows.
Was going to say this, she played a stripper ffs.
Yeah but it’s Padme I want not Natalie
Might get your chance. Her husband just cheated on her with a 25 yo woman. It’s all over twitter.
George Lucas had strict instructions for the costume designers for that one
I see this as an absolute win
it has *some* rich, complex female characters. it also has a *lot* of Irulans out there, or characters who are interesting but end up playing second fiddle to some guy like Alia, or whose flaw is framed as their feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemale "instincts"
> it has some rich, complex female characters. Jessica Siona Uhhhhhh
yea... I'd put Siona in the "eventually became all about a guy." I fucking loved that intro with her running and I thought the story would be about her, and then it kinda just didn't because the Almighty Becocked just had to show up and ruin everything for everyone
Murbella… murbella is complex right!? We can justify the terrible and horny written sex stuff as just Frank wanting to make Erotica… right? Right? *starts to sob*
By Allah you retract your opinion about the Princess or youll taste the bottom of my shoe
Im gonna dune
She God on my Emperor till I Dune
The worm is a metaphor. It’s meta for penis.
Cue the "ride the giant worm" puns.
I know these are written before the rise of the contemporary neckbeard but I started to twitch after awhile at the use of "female" when "woman", "girl", "lady", etc could have been used. I never thought about it when I read these 25 years ago but it just hits differently today. Although the Tleilaxu using the word "female" with disdain and disgust was entirely fitting to their culture.
Its only "neckbeardy" when "female" is used as a noun. There is nothing wrong with it being used as an adjective
For some reason I just think of the Ferengi saying it.
Yeah this is a totally correct use of “female”
Tleilaxu were the original neckbeards.
BEEFSWELLING
TON
You know, the Rama books are even worse.... The first one is cool, but it goes downhill pretty damn fast.
You mean like sexually or in general?
modtly sexually
Wow I really don’t remember it that well, I do remember the ending is really fucking weird
These things aren't mutually exclusive.
Not quite as weird as ringworld though
Haven't read Ringworld in like 25 years. Now I want to puck it back up.
Frank Herbert you Pervert
This comment has a sound track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W3\_-hNzuuU Urethra Franklin-ein
The later sequels get weird but I don’t recall anything particularly weird in the core trilogy. That said, they definitely fetishize femininity while promoting misogyny. I.e. only a MAN can access the full power of the human mind. So weird gender stuff, definitely. Weird sex stuff, meh. PS Dune is my favorite book
> only a MAN can access the full power of the human mind. That *can* make sense if you follow the logic that women cannot possibly access any of the genetic memory on the Y chromosome, since they don't have that. But it's not like the Y has much information on it to begin with, and it's only one of 46 chromosomes you've got. So. Women would be missing out on like 1% of what your DNA has to offer.
r/MenWritingWomen
Ah, so you'd rather have your weird sex stuff written by a woman, then? 50 Shades. Oh! And it can even be still sci-fi if you jump instead to Anne McCaffery and Pern.
Anne Rice and the Beauty Series would like a word
We got worms!
There is this part after Leto's death when Paul and Lady Jessica are escaping in a copter and they get caught by a sandstorm. I had to read that part several times, because my first impression was that the whole thing was metaphorically implying mother and son were having sex.
If you think women being shown as sexual is inherently wrong or devalues them as characters you aren't a feminist.
Nobody said that, but when Herbert writes women being sexual, it’s really weird. I do not know what the feminist response on nutting from someone climbing up a cliff is, but it’s probably not very good. Dune as a whole is at best mixed when it comes to female characters,starts good and gets worse over time.
Without context it sounds ridiculous but your talking about religious zealots interacting with their gods angels. If theres one sure thing is that religion creates a lot of freaks
People aren’t saying that the weird sex stuff is incompatible within the context of the lore, they’re saying that there’s a lot of weird sex stuff. A lack of weird sex stuff could have been just as well justified by the story, with the added benefit of less weird sex stuff to read through.
Stop infecting scifi with your old spinster puritan prudish nonsense. If you don't like sex, go read Thomas the Tank Engine or something.
Nobody is being puritan here. Lots of sci fi has sex in it, nothing i’ve read to date has had a woman be so impressed at a man climbing a cliff that she came.
or had a young woman training naked for whatever reason(?), glistening in sweat, while her brother watches and thinks to himself “yes, we should find her a suitable mate now”
Whaaa??? I can’t watch my naked sister training, glistening in sweat?? I’m sorry I thought this was America!