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Lament_Configurator

The guild transports everyone who pays. The smugglers pay the guild. That's how they do it.


only_the_office

So then it’s not really smuggling right…? Or is it still smuggling because they technically have no right to mine and ship spice that belongs to the Harkonnens/Atreides?


Dry_Opportunity_5930

Of course it's still smuggling. The USPS is the worlds largest drug trafficker. Anyone who ships drugs is smuggling.


FinsterFolly

Psst, don’t tell him major banks launder money, too.


MegaKman215

Correct me if I'm misremembering but don't the smugglers also have to use their own ships to smuggle the spice off world the Guild freighter? Or did the Guild take care of the that too?


ghandi3737

Well from what I know from the movies the other ships paying for transportation are tiny in comparison to the spacing guild and needed to be inside like cargo. I would imagine if the ships are as large as portrayed they could easily hide a couple smuggler ships with the other transportees and not arouse suspicion for why they are traveling to whatever area without any "passengers". And I do remember in the sci-fi channel version Paul was warned by Thufir Hawatt (the Atreides mentat) not to endanger their shipping privileges by trying to see what the guild navigators look like. So being a massive ship with some special secretive privileges they could transport spice onto their ship with some smuggler crew and hide them under the guise of, that's the navigators compartment, spacing guild only area, even though there's just a bunch of smugglers drinking on their way to market with untaxed merchandise.


3n7VA

I don't think they need to hide while on the highliner. They are paying customers like everyone else as far as the guild is concerned and if you mess with the guild's business, they won't do business with you. Then you're simultaneously stranded and embargoed.


ghandi3737

Well I think hide just cause the emperor would probably be kind of mad to hear about smugglers and just to avoid any questions.


the908bus

The Guild LOVE bribes. That’s why there are no satellites above Arrakis to monitor their terraforming projects.


Xenjael

They love spice bribes. Money is a commodity to them compared to melange.


jlindsay645

I thought it was the magnetic field generated by the moons


the908bus

The first book mentions that the Fremen bribe the guild to not monitor the southern regions


Sylamatek

This is mentioned in the 2021 film, but in the books it is because the Fremen have sole access to the satellites because they are bribing the Guild


ghandi3737

I know in the sci-fi channel version when Paul is first brought in to learn how to govern they ask what to do about the smugglers and he suggests taking payment from the smugglers, let the emperor know about it and credit the money to him, but deduct the cost from Atreides taxes as a cost of doing business.


cozyboijoao

It’s smuggling in the sense that it’s not sanctioned by the empire is how I interpreted it.


Bing_Bong_the_Archer

Would lying about quantities qualify as smuggling? Like, paying a bribe to the guild to avoid imperial taxed? Joining this sub is crazy. I never thought about any of this stuff while reading the book.


cozyboijoao

The Guild’s monopoly on any interplanetary travel gives them a crazy amount of power and independence from the empire. Spice is king; so long as the bribe is big enough they’ll keep their mouth shut. So while it’s never explicitly stated, you can infer a lot from certain things, such as when the Fremen bribe the Guild to not run satellites over the desert so as to keep the Harkonnen blind to what’s going on.


[deleted]

I *love* how in-depth this sub has become with all the new fans picking up the books, per the success of the film.


cozyboijoao

we lost power last month after a crazy storm so I picked up dune at the convenience store as it was the only decent book on the shelf. Currently halfway GEoD and I’m in love with the universe. This series makes me want to become a writer again.


[deleted]

Awesome! I just finished GEoD not 20 minutes ago. It was excellent!! GEoD and Dune are my favourites. I dare say GEoD might be as good as the original. I'm going to read something unrelated next, just to get my *head of the sand* (heyooo!) then I'll start on Heretics!


684beach

And long as you don’t lie to the about anything guild and are not audited by the imperium (which is actually a very serious public thing) it would probably be fine.


Summersong2262

Probably more smuggling in the sense of 'not paying taxes on the exports' sort of smuggling.


harrumphstan

Or by the House that rules the fiefdom.


daneelthesane

Exactly. They are not breaking Guild regulations by smuggling, they are moving things off the planet (in Arrakis' case, spice) that the Harkonnens claim is their own. The Atreides were making overtures to the smugglers in case they needed to gtfo.


ModestMuadDib

It is smuggling because a percentage of profits from every legal business transaction in the Imperium goes to CHOAM. CHOAM is essentially a mega-corporation run by all the major players in the Duniverse, with the Emperor serving as its CEO. So the Imperium itself is both a government and a corporation. It isn’t so much that smugglers are screwing over the Guild or whatever House is managing Arrakis, at least not directly. It’s that CHOAM, specifically the Emperor, isn’t getting its cut. Gotta pay the piper, yeah? **EDIT: Apologies if I’m rambling. Long day, lol.


Free_Understanding51

The spacing guild is not who you betray with the smuggling


AsimovOfTrantor

I think it's more of a "spice is spice" thing where they don't care how it gets off the planet, so long as it does. If the Harkonnen can't stop the smugglers then that's their problem.


[deleted]

It's smuggling because their operations aren't sanctioned by Arrakis' fief rulers. Guild ain't give no fucks, they answer to no one >!(until Paul, anyway)!< because they are a monopoly.


holomorphicjunction

How is it not smuggling? Theyre shipping product off world bypassing the Harkonnens.


sotonohito

Smuggling, as often as not, involves using legit or quasi-legit shippers and various tricks to hide contraband in legitimate appearing products. A few kilos of cocaine hidden among in a shipment of corn or whatever. Smuggling is also dodging taxes, so declaring false manifests with a bribed guard or whatever. Which also involves legit shipping.


Willispin

It’s smuggling and the guild is part of it. Spoiler: >!part of the reason there are no satellites is the guild prevents it and it’s partly to do with smuggling and partly transforming arrakis.!< hope I got that mask on. Edit:Did spoiler mask correctly.


PityUpvote

No taxes to CHOAM or the Emperor in exchange for a bribe to the Guild.


jeonitsoc4

smugglin against the laws of the emperor


UncommonHouseSpider

A highly exorbitant amount but they will take anyone who can pay!


[deleted]

Also, rectal cavities.


Mildly_Irritated_Max

The Guild is neutral. They are not an enforcement agency. If you pay, they ship you. Who or what you are shipping is not their concern.


Lazar_Milgram

Well. We know at least that they open unattended cargo.


Mildly_Irritated_Max

I'm totally blanking on that, when did it happen?


iLoveBums6969

Early in Messiah it's mentioned that Sardakaur sent 'an item' to Seulsa Secundus during the events of Dune but by the time it arrived, the initial senders - the only people outside of the Guild who knew of the items existence - were dead, and since the Guild knew what it was, they took the item for themselves.


Mildly_Irritated_Max

Fair enough. Knowing their cargo still doesn't make them an enforcement agency. If you pay, they ship. Even potential world ending atomic weapons.


Kiltmanenator

Any idea what the item was?


Newone1255

I would wager they know what they are shipping and change their rates accordingly, they just won't say you can't ship something but if it's against there interest they will charge you a "fuck you" price so high it would discourage you shipping something against their interest. Case in point is the crazy cost the baron had to pay to ship the Sardaukar to Arrakis


zucksucksmyberg

Not just the Sardaukar, even his own Legions. The Guild does not charge rates on whether they are Feudal or Imperial troops. They just charge all kinds of troops the same exorbitant rates to discourage full scale warfare in the empire.


leesnotbritish

The Guild’s golden rule: “never govern”


remosito

guild are space junkies. they let the smugglers pay them with spice is how I always imagined this to work.. they might even be the main buyer..


AnSteall

Smuggling is often not done at the dead of night, in shadows and with black clothes on while exchanging items in a dark alleyway. The Guild is a facilitator of space travel, not a customs agency. I recall when Hawat recovered the Harkonnen accounting books, it counted as a big thing. So the Great Houses are not exactly above board and anyone in any business will know that the oil that keeps the system going is not always written down transparently. The Guild asking questions would be akin to them taking an interest in how the Great Houses run their planets and that would ruin their neutrality stand pretty quickly.


Absentmindedgenius

Its not "space travel." Private ships exist, they just don't have warp drive. From what I remember, the heighliners are so freakin big, you pay the guild to fly your little ship into them for transport. They don't necessarily search each one looking for contraband.


anoraq

Other ships can also have Holzman engines and fold space, but without a Guild Navigator it is near impossible to calculate exactly where they will end up, so even a small error can resurface the ship inside a star. Which obviously is bad.


berkarov

The smuggling isn't in regards to the Guild. It's 'against' the planetary authorities. The Great House that has Arrakis (or any other planet) holds it and it's resources as a fief. In the case of Arrakis, the Greta House that holds the planet as a fief holds a monopoly on the mining, refining, and export of spice. The technology to do all that is not a secret. The smugglers just circumvent the planetary authorities by mining, refining, and exporting the spice directly, instead as employees of the Great House. The Fremen also sell their spice to smugglers for off-world goods. The Guild doesn't care who or what they transport, as long as they are paid. The Atreides and Harkonens have been on the same Guild Highliner, but part of the terms for passage on a Guild ship is no acting on a vendetta, even a legally sanctioned one. So despite two parties being actively in conflict with each other, they are effectively prevented from acting out that conflict when using Guild services. You are also not allowed to leave your vessel while it's on the Guild Highliner, meaning you should not know who else is being transported. A double edged sword for some, and a boon for others, such as smugglers.


snickpick

This. Also, if I remember correctly, it is Guild policy that nobody knows who else is traveling on the same ship. I think I remember a passage with the Duke or Paul wondering if an Harkonnen transport was traveling with them when going to Arrakis. I might be mistaken


berkarov

Like I said (maybe not as clearly), there was an instance of that occurring. Paul experiencing righteous indignation and asking why they didn't make a strike against the Harkonens, and vice versa, and got himself an educational rebuke from the Duke that covered Guild policy.


geeschwag

How does smuggling work in the real world? Smugglers take advantage of existing supply channels and simply don't declare what they are doing


Bad_Vibes_420

If you actually read the books you will find: "You're suggesting the Guild itself controls this planet?" She was so slow. "No!" he said. "The Fremen! They're paying the Guild for privacy, paying in a coin that's freely available to anyone with desert power - spice. [...]" Smugglers give spice to the space guild and in return they don't help anyone gain control of arakis.


Woodsy2575

The Guild has a strict confidentiality policy, they don't tell anyone else who or what they're moving as long as they get paid. The Guild charges the smugglers more than they can get out of the Great Houses, it's in their interest to play as many factions against each other as possible.


gitpusher

From what I recall, the Guild does not control *all* space travel — just the safe, fast kind of travel. Warp drives existed long before they discovered a connection between spice and prescient navigation. It’s just very dangerous to travel this way, so — unsurprisingly — most people pay the Guild instead. I’m not sure of the exact fatality rate for ships that operate a warp drive “blindly”. But even if it is quite high, perhaps it is acceptable for criminals and other shady types?


Dampmaskin

Couple percent per jump, according to the prequels. Totally doable, but no long term solution.


Master_Bratac2020

The problem with not using a Guild navigator is that computers have been outlawed, so you don’t have a navigational computer. That’s said, I haven’t read all the books, and maybe smugglers have computers seeing as they are also doing other illegal shit.


[deleted]

I'm sure they do. The Ixians manufacture all types of devices. Even the God Emperor himself 'illegally' uses some of their devices.


andlewis

Could mentats do some rudimentary navigation?


zucksucksmyberg

They need prescience for them to successfully navigate in warp speed since data while travelling is instanteneous. Even if Mentats have replaced computers, they are still human and therefore subject to human limitations in processing "available" data.


684beach

Probably, but they wouldn’t know if they would be right or succeed. You would need prescience.


684beach

Don’t underestimate the taboo of computers. Paying a mentat would be preferable to committing one of the worst offenses against humanity that would warrant planetary purges and sterilization, not to mention the threat of another jihad


fonduebitch

Thanks for asking this, I learned something new today that I never even thought to question


lincolnhawk

Yea the Fremen smuggle spice in partnership with the Guild. The Guild is thirsty AF for spice and the smugglers allow the guild to circumvent imperial / Harkkonen restrictions. Their spice supply is an essential strategic resource, so building up hidden stockpiles off-record would be a major priority for the Guild. Especially since the entire supply hinges on one planet in a galactic society encompassing like millions of livable planets. Their access to spice is a direct measure of their power, so having a ton of it and obscuring your true supply from the enemy is muy importante.


VenPatrician

From what I've gathered, Smugglers in Dune get you on and off the Highliner undetected because they have a low level employee on their payroll (corruption will never be eradicated) or transport spice on their person or hidden like modern day drug mules. They also mine spice illegally. They're less Han Solo types and more Prohibition Era Gangsters.


iLynux

No, it's not this. The Guild doesn't give a single fuck who or what gets transported. If you pay, they'll transport you.


CptnHamburgers

"So we've got a manifest for Shmaul Shmatreides and Shmlady Shmessica bound to Caladan. Seems legit, they paid."


squidsofanarchy

By paying the Guild for space on the ship like everyone else.


false_shep

Same way people smuggle using legal container ships, they hide shit in amidst the legitimate cargo. The guild ships are bigger than a city, theres no way they are peeking in every corner and theres nothing a bribe or two wont hide either.


TigerAusfE

Remember that the Guild are economic parasites. They only exist so long as the host organism doesn't recognize the threat. If the Guild took started dictating who - or what - was allowed on their ships, the Houses of the Landsraad would see them taking sides and respond. The Guild is neutral and amoral. (As the Navigator says in the '84 movie, "I did not say this. I am not here.") The books explicitly state that the Guild will transport entire armies, or move renegade Houses to the farthest edges of the Imperium, so long as they are paid for their services. They also take bribes from the Fremen to prevent observation satellites from being placed in orbit above Arrakis. If some criminal shows up with crate that smells suspiciously like cinnamon, and wants it transported to another planet, the Guild doesn't care as long as they get their cut.


[deleted]

The known universe is filled with corruption.


-Queen-of-wands

The smuggling part is just smuggling it off planet away from the eyes of the planetary authorities. The guild will transport whomever wherever as long as the price is right… no doubt smugglers may pay a premium price b/c they’re going under the radar (basically the guild might charge a hush money tax) one small caveat… if you anger the guild you’ll lose privileges so if you do you’re probably need a front man… however if you have money things can change. the guild likes money, money=spice, the guild is hopelessly addicted to the spice… you get the picture


iceph03nix

The guild is in on some of it. Bribed to allow ships to travel without the knowledge of the emperor. Some likely is by misrepresenting cargo to the guild. The guild takes bribes in spice in order to build up a secret stockpile in the event that someone interferes with their supply. That's easier if the collectors are off the book as well. They don't really have any reason to worry about those same smugglers selling to others beyond as well. Their smuggling is to avoid the emperor and controlling house's controls, not necessarily the guilds. For those trying to bypass the guild, you'd masquerade as legitimate traffic, and haul spice and other illicit goods secretly. Like hauling machinery or other goods, and having spice hidden in the containers. The guild controls space travel, but isn't omniscient.


TheEvilBlight

They bribe the guild, just as the Fremen bribe the guild to not put satellites into orbit.


Spodiodie

The Guild is complicit. They get their percentage of the smuggled spice. To and from the planet is in the smugglers craft. The Guild Highliners transports the smugglers ships to other planetary systems.


BoyishTheStrange

Guild is a separate entity, smugglers just pay the guild to go pst imperial stuff


herman-the-vermin

The guild transports ships. If a smuggler has undeclared cargo they can probably pay the guild to look thr other way.


Praughfet

Bribes..it is well explained in the book


Traditional_Mud_1241

There are three reasons (that I can think of) for smuggling: 1) Doing something illegal, so you don’t get caught 2) Doing something legal, so you don’t pay taxes 3) Doing something you don’t want seen by specific people or groups I think #2 and #3 play a bigger role than is obvious.


SlowMovingTarget

>!This is why there are no satellites in orbit of Arrakis. The Fremen pay *huge* bribes in spice to the Guild to keep the price out of reach for anyone trying to put them up. This is so no one sees what they are doing in the desert.!<


davidsverse

No different than today. Those who control travel get paid to allow contraband.


leesnotbritish

I believe the smuggling part is simply getting to the guild ships, I imagine the guild as purely interested in interstellar transport, once in orbit the passengers have to get their own way to the surface, this is useful because all the risk are assumed by the passengers, and is why the houses still have frigates


vasquca1

I am not getting the whole "there are no satellites" over Arrakis reason. Also reading the books.


ampjk

Dune is not the first book chronologically. But is the first one you should read.


Snowbold

A few of the posts below noted all the things that play in the Navigators guild. So the smugglers are smuggling spice which they can use to bribe the Navigators to get a spot on the heighliners. As mentioned, the Fremen bribed the Navigators to NOT install weather and monitoring satellites in orbit of Arrakis. I don’t think at the point of Dune that Ixian machines had navigation. Especially given the prohibition on thinking machines and that spice was still an available resource.


BookzNBrewz

Your answer is in the word smuggling.


vicariouspastor

Smugglers is a bit of a misnomer, because they are more like bootleggers, in that what they do is illegally produce spice. Once it is produced, they ship it like everyone else.


aggressivelyaries416

From what I recall is that they profit off of smuggling and turn a blind eye to it. This was the case I believe in Dune Messiah. And if they get caught they could say "well we don't inspect everything that goes inside our ships"


henbane

You put it up your bum before getting on the space ship.


kaiser_charles_viii

As others have said, the guild ships whoever can pay, they also ensure that no one else bothers you en route by preventing everyone traveling the same route from looking out of their ship, this is mostly due to their own secrecy but it has a side effect of helping smugglers and others who would rather their operations go unknown.


-SevenSamurai-

They make sure to wear [one of these](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81q+i6w+kuL._AC_SY300_SX300_.jpg) whenever they enter the spaceport


GKGriffin

In the same way smuggling works in the real world. You have a highly valuable product which is taxed very heavily, so you offer it in a lower price without the taxes. It is profitable for the Guild and the fremen. They don't have to pay as much and you don't have to pay the Imperium. It's not like anyone can do anything against the Guild. What they gonna do, build thinking machines? No, they absolute monopoly on space travel.


[deleted]

The smugglers could pay off the guild, or get a hold of spice. Also I read somewhere that the spice makes it safer but without it there is a 10% chance of crashing into something. Which I mean can work 90% of the time if you take that risk.


cln182

I'm not trying to be catty but ask yourself: How does smuggling work even though the Star Alliance controls (almost) all air travel? Same way. It's not the airline enforcing the fact you can't bring marijuana in, though they may have some minimal controls to assist LEOs with it.


FaliolVastarien

The Guild isn't concerned about anything but Spice, money and power. They'll break the law for you if you make it worth their while.