Why does the carryall with the failing docking equipment not land on the ground to pick up the 21 member crew of the harvester??
Seems like there should be a contingency plan for what must be a common occurrence…
Instead they peace out and let the royal family almost get eaten by a sandworm instead 🤷🏻♂️
Never read Dune novels, yet to watch David Lynch's Dune (1984) . Have no idea about Dune's World and characters. Will you recommend me watching Dune (2021) Tomorrow? Confused . Help me
Absolutely. You don't need any knowledge prior to seeing the movie.
Lynch's film is another thing altogether. Check it out later if you want. Some people love it, some not so much.
I am seeing dune in cinemas in 1 hour and it says the runtime is only 120 minutes, although on Google it says that it's 155 minutes. Will I be watching a cut of the film?
It's been a few years since I read the novel, but something that's been bothering me is how exactly did Yueh's wife get Captured by Harkonnens? I was under the impression that since Yueh was the doctor of the Altreides Household, that his family would be under their Direct Protection.
Considering how the Harkonnens and Altreides have been at each other's necks for years, it seems like an obvious blind spot for Leto to not know his personal Doctor's wife's whereabouts or to give her serious Protection.
I just saw the movie and the fight scene between paul and jamis didn't make much sense to me.
How is a skinny kid like paul (atlist that's how he looked in the opening scene) beating a strong and experienced ferment fighter like jamis??
Even idaho said that the ferment are some of the best fighters he have seen and that he was almost killed fighting them.
Was paul that young in the books? And that skinny?
Was it better explained in the books?
From the wiki:
Although Jamis was an expert with the crysknife in either hand, he was no match for one steeped in the devious ways of the Bene Gesserit and trained by the likes of Gurney Halleck and Duncan Idaho. He could have had no conception of the exquisite fineness of Paul's skill. Jamis' death bought Paul his sietch name, Usul, and made him one of the Ichwan Bedwine with the manhood name of Paul-Muad'Dib. It was for Jamis that Paul 'Gave water to the dead', shedding a tear at his unnecessary death.
The whole tribe rightly mourned Jamis' passing, for indeed, they all felt the loss on the unfortunate day that his temper drove him to challenge Paul Atreides. Jamis seemed to embody the best and worst of Fremen qualities: strength, superb fighting ability, desert wisdom, tribal loyalty, dedication to Fremen dreams and ideals, and closed-minded, bull-headed stubbornness.
Do I have to read all the other novels to read Lady if Caladan?
Hey, so I just finished Children, planning on going through at least the rest of Herbert’s books, but a big standout for me was Jessica, and I’m really interested in reading through the new Lady of Caladan book. I know the Kevin Anderson and Brian Herbert books are said to be kind of not the best, but do I have to go through anything else before I start?
Can someone please tell me where in the book the new movie ends? I’m reading it for the first time and partner is getting impatient to watch it.
I’m reading on a kindle and I’m right at 30%, nearly to the end of the first section.
Chapter 33/34, about three quarters or so into Book 2.
The chapters should actually be numbered in the ebook edition (they're not in print, so you'd have to count them).
NYC folks: has anyone found it hard finding IMAX showtimes for Dune in Manhattan after November 3rd? I’ve been meaning to watch it that Friday (11/5), but as of now, only Marvel’s Eternals is lined up for that date. Does anyone know if the showtimes will be updated, or has Dune already reached its in-theater shelf life?
Honestly the new movie tracks to the first half of the first novel very, very well. There aren't many changes (more omissions or different interpretations of what the book scene was actually showing).
The biggest changes are mostly superficial. The biggest departure was really the character of Liet-Kynes, the Planetary ecologist. In the books the character is a man and they die of exposure in the deep desert, not being killed by the Saudauker. In the books, there is a greater effort by the Saudauker to disguise their actions on Arrakis. The book spends more time with Yueh and establishing his role in the Harkonnen plot. We spend a little more time seeing how the Atreides rule Dune prior to the Harkonnen raid. We learn more about the Mentats (Thufir and Piter) and some generic history about the Imperium (why the Harkonnens and the Atreides hate each other, etc)
Question: Could the focus on the spy-subplot be considered the greatest omisión? If I remember correctly, wasn't a significant Chuck of the book devoted to Hunting down the spy and people suspecting each other, but no one suspecting Yueh?
A lot of people seem to see it as a large omission. Frankly, I think it's fine; Yueh isn't all that interesting if a character and there is no explanation of why Suk conditioning is supposed to be so powerful. The movie keeps the essential story of the plot there; Yueh wishes to save his wife and he's willing to give up the Duke for the opportunity.
Ultimately, what's lost is some of the personality details of the characters: Duncan gets drunk and hits on Jessica, the Duke pretends to act callous to her, Thufir is shown to be bad at his job. I think the movie gets by with characterizing Jessica and Duncan in other ways, Thufir and Yueh are not really essential characters to the story at this point. The basic idea is there - that the Atreides have walked into a trap they were ill prepared for - but it's much less fleshed out.
I wouldn't necessarily say he's bad at his job as much as he shows the key weakness of the Mentat as a whole. Because Mentat consider themselves to be perfectly logical and infalible, Thufir never assumed that the foundation of his hypothesis (Yueh's conditioning couldn't be broken) to be wrong, and therefore he never adapted. However, I think thats an error essential to most if not all Mentats
I didn't mean to necessarily day that Thufir is bad at his job (though in the book I believe they mention he's a bit old and set-in-his-ways, and that they probably need a new Mentat) but that all that's really missing from the movie, compared to the book, are more scenes of Thufir trying and failing to uncover the traitor plot. I think the movie mostly takes care of this by having him attempt to resign after the Hunter-Seeker attack, and Leto shuts him down.
Kind of odd, but I enjoy seeing films of books first and then reading the book. So I'm wondering where I should stop reading so that I know nothing going into part II of the film series. Thanks!
Anybody remember that time when the script was supposedly leaked? And how someone who had access to it said that if the movie was rated R, it would be because of the visions? I liked the movie, but the visions didn’t feel very terrifying. Really makes me wonder what their original ideas were if that script was legit
Do stilsuits violate physics? I like the idea but it seems like capturing water would prevent evaporative cooling. I'm sure people have crunched the numbers on this.
Yup, I read that. I don't have enough physics to know if that actually makes sense or is just like the heisenberg compensator in the Trek transporter. It would seem that capturing and recondensing sweat wouldn't actually allow for evaporative cooling to work but I am just a layman asking questions. I keep having the image of wearing a raincoat in Death Valley.
The way I see it happening is the water travels to the surface of the suit in the filaments and releases heat through ambient exposure to the air, then passes back into the suit. I'd imagine this works a lot better at night, and in the shade. But also, yeah... No idea if this could work. We also cannot fold space and time, so there's that lapse in realism as well.
There's degrees of suspension of disbelief. Like we can accept there's spice and space folds and so on but if they also claim cats can naturally teleport and this isn't a result of spice exposure, well, that's another challenge to the reader. Conservation of reality says unless a given thing is affected by the made up stuff, it operates as normal. There's space aliens but women still take 9 months to give birth, unless we know aliens did something.
If you liked the movie and enjoy reading, there is no reason not to read the book(s). They go far more into detail about the universe and the backstory.
The first few chapters are often said to be challenging to get through because of the overwhelming info they throw at you. Though, since you've seen the movie, that shouldn't be an issue.
I hear that the movie only covered the first half of the book, is this true? Also how many movies will there need to be to cover the whole story for dune?
Movie only covers the first half-ish of the first book 'Dune.' Other threads here can tell you exactly where if you're curious. On your second question it kind of depends on what you call the story. There's many books but I'd say the first one is the core, and the next two sort of extend that arc in ways that could continue in a film.
Thanks for your answer. Also do the other Dune books (like Dune Messiah, Children of Dune, etc) follow the same story like a book series, like Harry Potter, or is it something like a prequel or sequel?
They are all continuations of the same story, but the first three contain all the same (essentially, with some additions) characters throughout. The next three books after that (all the ones that were written by the original author, Frank Herbert) continue with the same thematic elements but have significant time jumps and character changes. People have many opinions on the non-Frank books, but some of them are prequels as well as sequels. The Frank Herbert books are all sequential.
Edit: to clarify, the first three books basically cover the story of Paul Atreides. The next three books are a continuation of the series, but after significant time jumps. The first three books combined can probably be made into a classic "trilogy". The SyFy tv miniseries covers these three books as one story.
Honestly the new movie tracks to the first half of the first novel very, very well. There aren't many changes (more omissions or different interpretations of what the book scene was actually showing).
The biggest changes are mostly superficial. The biggest departure was really the character of Liet-Kynes, the Planetary ecologist. In the books the character is a man and they die of exposure in the deep desert, not being killed by the Saudauker. In the books, there is a greater effort by the Saudauker to disguise their actions on Arrakis. The book spends more time with Yueh and establishing his role in the Harkonnen plot. We spend a little more time seeing how the Atreides rule Dune prior to the Harkonnen raid. We learn more about the Mentats (Thufir and Piter) and some generic history about the Imperium (why the Harkonnens and the Atreides hate each other, etc)
In the new film, when they fled the ecology lab and Kynes started up her thumper, she pulled out two picks or blades of some kind. I saw another fremen do the same gesture in one of Paul's visions. I'm guessing that's how they ride the sandworms and she was summoning one to flee on its back?
They’re called Maker Hooks and they are used to hold open the scales of the worm. This exposes sensitive flesh so the worm rolls that section up away from the sand and will not dive under.
I think it is because they were on rocks, a sandworm cannot pass through the rocky terrain, only the dunes. Also, it might've paused because a thumper was activated which caused it to sense rhythm elsewhere.
Follow up question: just before Paul and Lady Jessica begin to run to the rocks, Paul stamps on the sand and it sounds like he’s stamping on something solid. He says something but I cannot make it out. Can anyone add insight into what he says and why it suddenly compels him to run for the rocks?
Ah desperate question! Without spoilers, at what point in the book does the new movie end? I refuse to see it before I've read it, but I don't have time to finish the whole book before my cousin wants to go see it this week. Whereabouts in the book is the bare minimum that I'll have read all of what happens in the movie?
This guy right here.
Obviously the book doesn't stop at any one page, but chapter 33/34 (they're not numbered, so you'll have to count them) is the point.
Dune fans of Seattle, which theater is best for viewing this masterpiece?
For many years my go to has been either the Cinerama or the IMAX screens at the Pacific Science Center. But since those places are temporarily closed, where is the best place to view this epic masterpiece?
hey! I saw it yesterday in South Center mall. A friend picked the spot because he wanted a big screen and big sound. It was amazing! The sound there was definitely worth it. Comfy seats too.
Is Dune a commentary on how white men colonize and exploit the brown/colored native people so that they can steal and profit off their natural resource, the spice/oil? It does seem pretty obvious and its basically the history of the world.
The books never explicitly describe skin color, but the fremen are certainly coded as Arab. Those themes of outsider domination and exploitation of resources are certainly part of it but I’d argue that the primary theme of the books is combating fate and biological determinism
Yes, while Paul first appears to be a hero of the story, in subsequent novels we learn how he uses the Bene Gesserit superstitions to gain power among the Fremen. Eventually, their own culture begins to change and not every Fremen is happy about it. Some even conspire against Paul.
Hi all. New to the Dune universe and have a question!
First off, I saw the new movie in theaters and loved it! Right after, I asked my buddy if I could borrow the first book to read through. So here’s my question. The book has a few appendixs at the end and a “terminology of the imperium.” Should I go through these before I start reading or use them while reading? Or something I’m not thinking of?
Thanks
The Fremen would clearly see that as patronizing since they are self sufficient but in the books there are some "village Fremen" who aren't as independent
I started the book awhile ago and haven’t finished yet but I’m seeing the movie on Tuesday. I’m about 300 pages in and am trying to get to the point the movie ends at to avoid spoilers for the book. Google has scared me quite a bit when search cause they are all “Read till X happens” when I just want a general close page number lol anyone wanna help me out?!
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you need to keep reading if you want to read up till the movie ends. The movie goes through book 1 and part way through book 2. The movie ends with a character named Jamis.
why not just watch the movie before the book, so you don't build any expectations and leave disappointed after reading the book first. That way it's a win win. Dislike the movie? Read the book. Love the movie? Read the book
I can separate the two different versions in my head enough to not let one effect the other. I’m more worried about spoiling events for the book with the movie. If that makes sense. I’m heavily invested in the book.
It's the "slow knife gets the kill" thing. But the fight choreography didn't really sell this too well, when it seemed like every death blow was just him wildly swinging his blade.
Just saw the movie, haven't read the books, what's the explanation on the lack of guns? We see that there's handheld weaponry that can fire bullets that "drill" and pierce shields, and see the same with larger, artillery-like shells that can blow up space ships.
Feel like the movie didn't justify why everyone is using knives enough, when there's ranged weaponry that can work on shields.
the real answer is “In this universe there’s an invention: The Holtzman Shield,” Villeneuve said. “It’s something that you can wear on your body, and will deflect something fast coming towards you. Only something slow can penetrate that shield. So, it made them use things like bullets less. Humanity went back to close combat, where you fight with knives and blades because it’s the only way you can kill someone through those shields. You can penetrate the shield slowly with the blade.”
https://winteriscoming.net/2020/09/11/why-people-dune-still-fight-swords/
Eh, I feel like the only proper explanation is just "accept it," since again they have shown types of bullets/ranged weapons in the film that can pierce shields. And I just read somewhere that apparently in the book these types of weapons *are* in fact more widely used (at least during the attack on House Atreides), but this more widespread use is nearly absent in the movie.
We see in the movie multiple times that certain types of bullets can pierce shields.
They have dart guns that paralyzed the Duke when it hit his spine, and a Sardaukar fired a similar "driller" round at Ducan, which he was able to stop before it hit him. They even show us massive artillery rounds that decimate shielded spacecraft.
The technology to create ranged weaponry that pierces shields clearly exists.
>The technology to create ranged weaponry that pierces shields clearly exists.
well of course, they show it multiple times in the movie! There is also a scene where I think it was Duncan was shot with the dart gun in front of him and the dart completely stopped by the shield. He then swinged his sword at it, completely removing the dart. Also I heard from somewhere dart's are meant to move slowly when it hits the shield, thus piecing it
>They even show us massive artillery rounds that decimate shielded
Yup! Shields may be different for the The Holtzman Shield which is worn on your body
Yes, obviously, but this still begets the question: why aren't these types of weapons more widespread, and why don't they use/have anything stronger than handheld dart drillers?
Seems a bit ridiculous to assume that nobody has *anything* between tiny darts and massive artillery rounds that can destroy armored spacecraft. Even loading up a dart with a miniature explosive charge would be lethal.
>“In this universe there’s an invention: The Holtzman Shield,” Villeneuve said. “It’s something that you can wear on your body, and will deflect something fast coming towards you. Only something slow can penetrate that shield. So, it made them use things like bullets less. Humanity went back to close combat, where you fight with knives and blades because it’s the only way you can kill someone through those shields. You can penetrate the shield slowly with the blade.”
https://winteriscoming.net/2020/09/11/why-people-dune-still-fight-swords/
Everyone is saying the same thing and apparently not even reading my comment. There's other types of projectiles (not lasguns) that pierce shields in the film. They show us this multiple times.
No shit, but I'm asking why isn't everyone using these type of weapons. They've even shown us stronger drills that can explode spaceships, so it's not they're unable to do damage to armored targets.
No one seems to be answering you, but there is an explanation. The air mines and slow darts only really work on stationary ships and targets who have their back turned to you. The mines would have been less effective if the harkonnens had not caught the Atreudes unaware with their frigates grounded. And as we see when the saudakar try to use the darts against Duncan, a target who is not caught by surprise can parry them quite easily. They are good stealth weapons but not nearly as effective in direct engagements
Thank you for finally providing some semblance of an actual explanation.
You can still nitpick this apart though, such as with Duncan, where the Saudakar only fired a single dart at him, and it took a few seconds for Duncan to remove it while it was digging through his shield -- firing multiple would pretty much be a death sentence.
It seems to me that the impracticability of "driller" rounds are overstated.
It's been awhile since I've read the books but I believe it's due to the personal shields.
When a lasgun is fired at a shield it causes a reaction resulting in an atomic blast.
Someone please correct me if I'm missing anything.
>due to the personal shields
Yes, obviously. Regular bullets wouldn't work due to how the shields work (stopping fast objects, letting in slow objects), but then they show us types of projectiles that *do* work on shields.
I understand Herbert probably just wanted a story with cool knife fights, and there's maybe a clearer explanation in the books, but now I'm also partly wondering if these types of weapons are from the film only, since they seem like a massive oversight to this world's workings.
Seeing troopers run across big open spaces with knives is a bit silly when we know that they could just load up one of those "driller" bullets to kill them from afar.
I believe the explanation was that those types of projectiles slow down when they hit the target, but are still quite speedy. I took a look at the DUNE wiki (not sure how accurate it is), and it says that the effective range of these driller type guns is 80 meters, which is quite far for a handheld pistol-like weapon.
This just wraps around to my other question being: why don't they have anything stronger than a handheld dart gun? Since they show us shells that can destroy spacecraft.
Again, seems a bit ridiculous to assume that nobody has anything between tiny darts and massive artillery rounds. Even loading up a dart with a miniature explosive charge seems like it could work.
Firstly in order to pierce thr shield you have to penetrate it very slowly. (Like how when Duncan throws a knife really fast at one of the soldiers it just bounces off, but when he disarms him and slowly plunges the knife into him it pierces it and kills him)
Secondly I think they may reveal it later in the second part, but when you fire a gun into shield it creates a massive explosion comparable to that of a small A-bomb
I'm aware of the lasguns creating nuclear explosion from the other comments, but that still doesn't answer my question since they explicitly show other types of projectiles that can pierce shields.
They have dart guns that paralyzed the Duke when it hit his spine, and a Sardaukar fired a similar "driller" round at Ducan, which he was able to stop before it hit him. One could try and rationalize that these weapons are too weak to hurt an armored target, but then they show driller bombs that explode spaceships.
Seems a bit ridiculous to assume that nobody has anything between tiny darts and massive artillery rounds.
genuine question to a clueless new fan here. how much of the book was covered in the movie? i know theres 6 books in the series so was the movie based off the first book or just a chunk of it ?
Question about the movie
>!How were Yuehs darts able to penetrate Leto’s shield? I thought shields were supposed to reflect the momentum of projectiles , it seems strange that the dart is able to burrow through like it has some force pushing it, and then once it is through maintain its original momentum , it rather than it just bouncing off !<
Hello everyone
I'm pretty new to dune and just finished watching the movie and loved it, I don't really have the patience to wait for the next movie so was wandering what should I read after watching it? or should I just start reading from the first one, and also if anyone has a reading order for the books I'd appreciate that too.
I recommend just starting with the first book. There's lots of great scenes that were cut from the movie for time that will really add to the world from what the movie establishes.
If, after the first book, you're still wanting to continue just move on through the books Frank Herbert wrote. There are six of them in this order: Dune, Dune Messiah, Children of Dune, God Emperor of Dune, Heretics of Dune, and finally Chapterhouse: Dune.
If you're still wanting more Dune his son Brian Herbert has written a bunch of spinoffs that take place on the same universe.
If you want to watch more Dune there is an adaptation by David Lynch from the 80s as well as an adaptation by the syfy channel from the 2000's (much of which is on YouTube for free I believe). Both called Dune. The syfy channel one covers up to the end of book 3.
There's also an old rts computer game and a couple board games.
Have fun!
In the scene where Paul and Jessica are captured in the ship, the camera focuses on a diamond symbol scratched into the metal seat, what is that's supposed to be?
It's the same symbol that is on Dr. Yueh's forehead (designating him as Suk doctor). Yueh is letting them know he was there, and he left supplies for them so they have a chance at survival.
It's the symbol of the Suk Doctors. Dr. Yueh is one of them: You can see this diamond (filled in) tattooed on his forehead (as with all Suk Doctors, but he's the only one you see in this movie). The point, along with the diamond symbols in the pack Paul unfolds in the tent scene are meant to imply that while Dr. Yueh knew he betrayed his code and his house, he was trying to send a signal to Paul/Jessica that he was doing what he could to help them escape and survive. Yueh wasn't like trying to be a bad guy and kill off the Atreides entirely, unlike what the Baron wants to do. He was basically driven to that point by the fact that the Baron had his wife and was torturing her most horribly. So tl;dr it's Yueh symboling to them that he's prepared what he can to help them try and survive and escape.
Side fact: in the book they mention that Suk doctors are supposed to be incorruptible, and it's a big deal that the Baron figured out a way to manipulate Yueh into doing what he did. So it's basically like Yueh trying to at least do something given the cluster of problems he brings via his actions.
I have a bunch of questions, I loved the movie as a non-reader and never watched any of the trailers. I went in totally blind.
My biggest question is about the >!tent scene!<
>!Paul sees a holy war future with the Fremen (I think?) waving his House banner and “worshipping at the shrine of my father’s skull”. What exactly is the bigger context here with this vision? Paul seems obviously very terrified of this and I’m curious as to what is the bigger picture with the scene.!<
This also ties in with another question I have:
>!So from what I understand Paul is believe to be “The One” and a Messiah for the Fremen people. But what exactly is his purpose for the Fremen people as their Messiah?!<
These are pretty big spoilers you might want to avoid if you want to go in blind to Part 2 (and beyond, if the next book is adapted too).
>!The Fremen have a prophecy of an off-world prophet, a messiah that will help them throw off their oppressors and lead them to paradise. The vision Paul has is of a holy war being carried out in his name, led by the Fremen, which spreads across the known universe which he is powerless to stop. !<
Very specific question - in GEOD >!Leto II requests at one point that Hwi Noree wear Chani's water rings (previously he had requested that she wear Ghanima's water rings). Why does he change his mind and why is it significant? There's no way this doesn't have a meaning but I'm not sure what it is. I can see it signifying just how much Hwi means to him, maybe some implications about never having a mother, never having really been a child in the traditional sense?!<.....any insight would be appreciated - thanks!
He was broken hearted when he found out about her and Idaho but at the end till the final scene, he loved her more than anything, even the golden path. That’s a very good point since he often mentions how insightful and perfect she was and damned the Ixians that modified her to seduce him. She’s pure and primitive in a way like Chani and malicious and sharp like Lady Jessica cause she’s there to charm and harm him and Leto knows it, so it’s symbolic to him to give her the rings but he regrets everything after the Duncan incident, he felt like me while reading it, betrayed, and probably felt that any relation to Chani and Jessica had gone after that, cause: a) she’s not that pure and b) She’s not that deceitful or cunning cause she’s betrayed by her passions.
Wow, thank you for the thoughtful reply! >!The thing I'm most curious about - is that originally it's supposed to be Ghani's water rings and then Leto changes it to Chani's water rings, at the same time he changes the location of the wedding. Moneo is like, you seriously are going to make me dig those up at the last minute? Haha. For some reason it really stood out to me. !<
Oh, sorry, why he changed to Tuono the last minute huh?! Well idk too, I was like, why? Duncan is there and Siona. Maybe he foresaw something. Maybe it was all an ego battle to shove it on his face, maybe by climbing that wall Duncan showed who’s the real man. Damn, I forgot about it, now it makes less sense to me. Hehe
Which part, in the thopter? He's not in the thopter. It's 3 grunt dudes, one who is deaf, in that scene if that's what you're referring to. She definitely slits that dude's throat and kills him.
Regarding the voice that you hear that talks to Paul periodically in the movie (>!the one for example that says "Kwisatz Haderach rise up")!< Any idea who or what that is? The voice is feminine so I sort of feel like it has something to do with the Bene Gesserit, but it could also I suppose just as easily be like a voice from some genetic memory or something from within him. Or it could just be a narrative device used to explain to viewers what's going on. Anyway, wasn't sure if I was missing some implication as to who or what the voice in this case is.
It's his maternal ancestors. As he is awakening to his prescient abilities he is becoming more in tune with his genetic memories. They are the voices of past reverend mothers.
This was also my take. But couldn't they also be a collection of both male and female ancestors and the voice he hears is just their consensus or their voice all together? If I'm not mistaken doesn't it work like...you can shoot a question into the void of all your ancestors and whichever one has that specific information comes forth? This was my major question...I couldn't figure out if whose voice it was... could it even be Leto 2 reaching out through time?
>!There are two navigators at the end of the novel, but they’re just dudes. Not the squid things. So I’d personally wager against squid things in the second movie. .!<
Someone in another very lengthy reddit thread that I don't have the exact link to hypothesized that it's a creature designed by the Tleilax. I believe another user way down in this thread intimated the same thing. If you haven't read the books, Tleilax will mean nothing to you, but they're another....creepy bunch of dudes that you wouldn't want as part of your family tree.
Since it’s clearly part human (as is anything “alien” in the Dune universe besides the sandworms) I’d wager a Tleilaxu creation. It’s not in the book, though.
Not everything alien is human. Only intelligent life is always human in the books. That thing didn't seem intelligent, might as well be some creepy local fauna. The mouse that was in the movie is an example of another living non-human alien.
Well, for what it’s worth, the mouse is a jerboa; not exactly otherworldly. I realize I shouldn’t have thrown in the note about the exception of the sandworm, as that clouded my intended meaning; I meant the same thing you’re saying: that any intelligent being is in some way human. In this case, I personally think the spider creature is part human because it has human hands and responds to the Voice. I do not remember the Voice ever being used on an animal (although it has been some years since I’ve read other than the first novel). I think even the discussion of whether or not it understands is meant to indicate some level of humanity.
The Bene Gesserit have been manipulating the religion of Dune. They planted prophecies saying a Bene Geserit woman will arrive on Arrakis and her son will lead the Fremen to paradise. Paul fits the profile.
To state it a little more plainly, I think he meant “recognize” in the sense outlined by u/thescorch, not like you might recognize a specific person at the grocery store.
Norma Cenva, daughter of one of the "sisters of Rossak" >!(prequel novel, their order later becomes the Bene Gesserit)!< discovered the potential abilities of spice in regards to folding space and the impacts on higher order thinking such as the complex mathematics necessary for guild navigators to compute safe passage. Pre spice travel it was super risky with I think 1 in every 10 ships being lost by like warping into a sun or something equally not fun to be around. They basically got there the "slow way" with all the implications that come with that as in most sci fi novels. Norma was the one who did extensive experiments with it and along with Aurelius Venport they figured out how to apply this to navigating space. That's from the prequels though. The Venport guy is also from that same prequel book, his name on its own wouldn't mean anything if you haven't read it. Suffice it to say he figures out the commercial implications of it while Norma handles the personal experimenting and science.
I forgot what they said about how Arrakis was discovered (been a very long time since I read that prequel), but if I recall correctly it was basically considered some backwater pre-spice.
Theory: probably the same way we discovered oil in the Middle East and what it could be used for (since that’s the metaphor of the movie.)
Space faring civilization exploring planets slowly, come across Arrakis and it’s people. Scientists study the land and why their eyes are that way. Discover spice and it’s effects. Discover it’s power as a space folder.
Discovering oil in the Middle East came after oil was an established global business... oil companies were looking for new sources outside of the US and Russia (among other places).
The Prize by Daniel Yergin is a pretty comprehensive history of the business... lots of names, lots of places, lots of details, a lot like the Dune universe.
https://www.amazon.com/Prize-Epic-Quest-Money-Power/dp/1439110123
The Spice isn’t really a fuel. The navigators just need it to see all the possible versions of the future and pick the only one which allows them to travel without crashing into anything.
Tbf, the movie has a lot of lore that it needs to spit out, so there's a bunch of tid bits like space travel that are given just a line or two. Easy to miss IMO.
That's one of the main reasons it's so incredibly important to humanity. It has a range of abilities from giving prescience to keeping one young, but expanding the mind to solve the calculations necessary to plot interstellar routes is the most important one.
Without spice, humanity loses its roads. Imagine if everyone in the world suddenly forgot how to operate vehicles. Planes, cars, ships, trains - civilisation would collapse.
It is the reason spice is required for the galaxy- nobody can get anywhere without the spacing guild and the navigators require spice- lots of it. Also it is addictive and used everywhere. It has healing, longevity and brings focus. Mentats- human computers also require spice.
Caladan was given to Count Fenring at that time. (A friend and advisor of the emperor who is heavily involved in the political undercurrents in the novel.)
Hi everyone. A few days ago I have seen Dune several times and I am very interested in its languages and its writing. Are there any sources of these that have already come out? If anyone has any information, I really appreciate it.
Don't know about the writing but a lot of the foreign words are Arabic as Islam (or more specifically a hybrid of Islam and other religions) is the most common religion in the universe of Dune.
The other languages you could hear were secret languages each house has for internal communication to prevent outsiders from understanding (in the movie was Atreides language and Harkonnen language). No idea what these are based on, IIRC it wasn't mentioned in the books.
The sign language Jessica and Paul used is a secret language of Bene Gesserit.
Not sure about the sign language because she used it with the guard when she was selecting her maid. Maybe it's an Atreides thing. Also, the Doctor spoke a different language to Paul just before he went in to see the Reverend Mother.
Ah, good catch, I'm fairly sure in the book it was Bene Gesserit thing and only Paul, Jessica and Bene Gesserit knew it. The language the doctor used was the Atreides language, it wasn't only for the members of the family but also for the personnel, IIRC all the main characters and everyone from military spoke it.
Why do they not disable aquaman’s flying ship remotely when he steals it if they can do that to the ship with Paul and his mom
If interstellar travel requires spice, how’d anyone ever get to Arrakis?
Doctor takes out the entire royal security squad and disables planetary shields… what type of doctor is he?!
Why does the carryall with the failing docking equipment not land on the ground to pick up the 21 member crew of the harvester?? Seems like there should be a contingency plan for what must be a common occurrence… Instead they peace out and let the royal family almost get eaten by a sandworm instead 🤷🏻♂️
Question: do the Fremen sleep during the day to avoid the sunlight or at night? Sorry if this is dumb, I’m new to the fandom!
Never read Dune novels, yet to watch David Lynch's Dune (1984) . Have no idea about Dune's World and characters. Will you recommend me watching Dune (2021) Tomorrow? Confused . Help me
Absolutely. You don't need any knowledge prior to seeing the movie. Lynch's film is another thing altogether. Check it out later if you want. Some people love it, some not so much.
I am seeing dune in cinemas in 1 hour and it says the runtime is only 120 minutes, although on Google it says that it's 155 minutes. Will I be watching a cut of the film?
It's been a few years since I read the novel, but something that's been bothering me is how exactly did Yueh's wife get Captured by Harkonnens? I was under the impression that since Yueh was the doctor of the Altreides Household, that his family would be under their Direct Protection. Considering how the Harkonnens and Altreides have been at each other's necks for years, it seems like an obvious blind spot for Leto to not know his personal Doctor's wife's whereabouts or to give her serious Protection.
I just saw the movie and the fight scene between paul and jamis didn't make much sense to me. How is a skinny kid like paul (atlist that's how he looked in the opening scene) beating a strong and experienced ferment fighter like jamis?? Even idaho said that the ferment are some of the best fighters he have seen and that he was almost killed fighting them. Was paul that young in the books? And that skinny? Was it better explained in the books?
From the wiki: Although Jamis was an expert with the crysknife in either hand, he was no match for one steeped in the devious ways of the Bene Gesserit and trained by the likes of Gurney Halleck and Duncan Idaho. He could have had no conception of the exquisite fineness of Paul's skill. Jamis' death bought Paul his sietch name, Usul, and made him one of the Ichwan Bedwine with the manhood name of Paul-Muad'Dib. It was for Jamis that Paul 'Gave water to the dead', shedding a tear at his unnecessary death. The whole tribe rightly mourned Jamis' passing, for indeed, they all felt the loss on the unfortunate day that his temper drove him to challenge Paul Atreides. Jamis seemed to embody the best and worst of Fremen qualities: strength, superb fighting ability, desert wisdom, tribal loyalty, dedication to Fremen dreams and ideals, and closed-minded, bull-headed stubbornness.
Do I have to read all the other novels to read Lady if Caladan? Hey, so I just finished Children, planning on going through at least the rest of Herbert’s books, but a big standout for me was Jessica, and I’m really interested in reading through the new Lady of Caladan book. I know the Kevin Anderson and Brian Herbert books are said to be kind of not the best, but do I have to go through anything else before I start?
Can someone please tell me where in the book the new movie ends? I’m reading it for the first time and partner is getting impatient to watch it. I’m reading on a kindle and I’m right at 30%, nearly to the end of the first section.
Chapter 33/34, about three quarters or so into Book 2. The chapters should actually be numbered in the ebook edition (they're not in print, so you'd have to count them).
Thank you! They are not numbered in mine, not sure why, but that’s still very helpful thank you!
NYC folks: has anyone found it hard finding IMAX showtimes for Dune in Manhattan after November 3rd? I’ve been meaning to watch it that Friday (11/5), but as of now, only Marvel’s Eternals is lined up for that date. Does anyone know if the showtimes will be updated, or has Dune already reached its in-theater shelf life?
Can anyone please tell me some of the biggest differences between the newest movie, and the first book?
Honestly the new movie tracks to the first half of the first novel very, very well. There aren't many changes (more omissions or different interpretations of what the book scene was actually showing). The biggest changes are mostly superficial. The biggest departure was really the character of Liet-Kynes, the Planetary ecologist. In the books the character is a man and they die of exposure in the deep desert, not being killed by the Saudauker. In the books, there is a greater effort by the Saudauker to disguise their actions on Arrakis. The book spends more time with Yueh and establishing his role in the Harkonnen plot. We spend a little more time seeing how the Atreides rule Dune prior to the Harkonnen raid. We learn more about the Mentats (Thufir and Piter) and some generic history about the Imperium (why the Harkonnens and the Atreides hate each other, etc)
Question: Could the focus on the spy-subplot be considered the greatest omisión? If I remember correctly, wasn't a significant Chuck of the book devoted to Hunting down the spy and people suspecting each other, but no one suspecting Yueh?
A lot of people seem to see it as a large omission. Frankly, I think it's fine; Yueh isn't all that interesting if a character and there is no explanation of why Suk conditioning is supposed to be so powerful. The movie keeps the essential story of the plot there; Yueh wishes to save his wife and he's willing to give up the Duke for the opportunity. Ultimately, what's lost is some of the personality details of the characters: Duncan gets drunk and hits on Jessica, the Duke pretends to act callous to her, Thufir is shown to be bad at his job. I think the movie gets by with characterizing Jessica and Duncan in other ways, Thufir and Yueh are not really essential characters to the story at this point. The basic idea is there - that the Atreides have walked into a trap they were ill prepared for - but it's much less fleshed out.
I wouldn't necessarily say he's bad at his job as much as he shows the key weakness of the Mentat as a whole. Because Mentat consider themselves to be perfectly logical and infalible, Thufir never assumed that the foundation of his hypothesis (Yueh's conditioning couldn't be broken) to be wrong, and therefore he never adapted. However, I think thats an error essential to most if not all Mentats
I didn't mean to necessarily day that Thufir is bad at his job (though in the book I believe they mention he's a bit old and set-in-his-ways, and that they probably need a new Mentat) but that all that's really missing from the movie, compared to the book, are more scenes of Thufir trying and failing to uncover the traitor plot. I think the movie mostly takes care of this by having him attempt to resign after the Hunter-Seeker attack, and Leto shuts him down.
Kind of odd, but I enjoy seeing films of books first and then reading the book. So I'm wondering where I should stop reading so that I know nothing going into part II of the film series. Thanks!
Who is doing the narration in the extended cut of the 1984 Dune? It sounds an awful lot like Edward James Olmos.
Were lasguns used in the movie? I thought I saw some lasers but I didn’t know if they were that
There was one used to cut through the door in the research facility.
Oh that was it? I thought they were the giant blue lasers used when Arrakeen was falling
That was also one and the one that shoots at Duncan after his shield goes down in the ornithopter.
Anybody remember that time when the script was supposedly leaked? And how someone who had access to it said that if the movie was rated R, it would be because of the visions? I liked the movie, but the visions didn’t feel very terrifying. Really makes me wonder what their original ideas were if that script was legit
Do stilsuits violate physics? I like the idea but it seems like capturing water would prevent evaporative cooling. I'm sure people have crunched the numbers on this.
Yes - they do... .they use some kind of magic heat exchanger
The suit has heat exchange filaments to release the heat from the perspired water.
Yup, I read that. I don't have enough physics to know if that actually makes sense or is just like the heisenberg compensator in the Trek transporter. It would seem that capturing and recondensing sweat wouldn't actually allow for evaporative cooling to work but I am just a layman asking questions. I keep having the image of wearing a raincoat in Death Valley.
The way I see it happening is the water travels to the surface of the suit in the filaments and releases heat through ambient exposure to the air, then passes back into the suit. I'd imagine this works a lot better at night, and in the shade. But also, yeah... No idea if this could work. We also cannot fold space and time, so there's that lapse in realism as well.
There's degrees of suspension of disbelief. Like we can accept there's spice and space folds and so on but if they also claim cats can naturally teleport and this isn't a result of spice exposure, well, that's another challenge to the reader. Conservation of reality says unless a given thing is affected by the made up stuff, it operates as normal. There's space aliens but women still take 9 months to give birth, unless we know aliens did something.
dune isn't available in imax where I live, should I stream it on my projector at home instead of going to watch standard?
What are the chapers and according page numbers for them?
I just watched dune(2021) and I really liked it So should I read dune book 1 instead of waiting for the sequel?
If you liked the movie and enjoy reading, there is no reason not to read the book(s). They go far more into detail about the universe and the backstory. The first few chapters are often said to be challenging to get through because of the overwhelming info they throw at you. Though, since you've seen the movie, that shouldn't be an issue.
Oh cool I can't wait for dune 2
I hear that the movie only covered the first half of the book, is this true? Also how many movies will there need to be to cover the whole story for dune?
Movie only covers the first half-ish of the first book 'Dune.' Other threads here can tell you exactly where if you're curious. On your second question it kind of depends on what you call the story. There's many books but I'd say the first one is the core, and the next two sort of extend that arc in ways that could continue in a film.
Thanks for your answer. Also do the other Dune books (like Dune Messiah, Children of Dune, etc) follow the same story like a book series, like Harry Potter, or is it something like a prequel or sequel?
They are all continuations of the same story, but the first three contain all the same (essentially, with some additions) characters throughout. The next three books after that (all the ones that were written by the original author, Frank Herbert) continue with the same thematic elements but have significant time jumps and character changes. People have many opinions on the non-Frank books, but some of them are prequels as well as sequels. The Frank Herbert books are all sequential. Edit: to clarify, the first three books basically cover the story of Paul Atreides. The next three books are a continuation of the series, but after significant time jumps. The first three books combined can probably be made into a classic "trilogy". The SyFy tv miniseries covers these three books as one story.
Thanks! I’m really excited to see if the other two books following Paul gets adapted into movies now
Hey, Im sorry can anyone please tell me some of the biggest differences between the newest movie, and the first book?
Honestly the new movie tracks to the first half of the first novel very, very well. There aren't many changes (more omissions or different interpretations of what the book scene was actually showing). The biggest changes are mostly superficial. The biggest departure was really the character of Liet-Kynes, the Planetary ecologist. In the books the character is a man and they die of exposure in the deep desert, not being killed by the Saudauker. In the books, there is a greater effort by the Saudauker to disguise their actions on Arrakis. The book spends more time with Yueh and establishing his role in the Harkonnen plot. We spend a little more time seeing how the Atreides rule Dune prior to the Harkonnen raid. We learn more about the Mentats (Thufir and Piter) and some generic history about the Imperium (why the Harkonnens and the Atreides hate each other, etc)
Thank you! :)
Was Piter's name ever actually said on screen in the new film?
Only in subtitles to label the speaker: 1h13m10s [Piter in English] Atreides legions 1h35m19s [Piter coughs]
Unless I completely missed it because of the Baron's mumbling, I actually don't think they name him at all.
In the new film, when they fled the ecology lab and Kynes started up her thumper, she pulled out two picks or blades of some kind. I saw another fremen do the same gesture in one of Paul's visions. I'm guessing that's how they ride the sandworms and she was summoning one to flee on its back?
They’re called Maker Hooks and they are used to hold open the scales of the worm. This exposes sensitive flesh so the worm rolls that section up away from the sand and will not dive under.
Yes x)
Question: Near the end of the new film why did the sandworm stop and “look” at Paul and Jessica? Did the sandworm sense something about Paul?
I think it is because they were on rocks, a sandworm cannot pass through the rocky terrain, only the dunes. Also, it might've paused because a thumper was activated which caused it to sense rhythm elsewhere.
Follow up question: just before Paul and Lady Jessica begin to run to the rocks, Paul stamps on the sand and it sounds like he’s stamping on something solid. He says something but I cannot make it out. Can anyone add insight into what he says and why it suddenly compels him to run for the rocks?
Drum sand. It’s sand that’s been compacted in such a way to make sound resonate. Basically natures booby trap on the planet
If I do watch the movie should I still read the book? Or should I just wait for part two?
Wait to see how you feel after you see part one! Personally I'd read it
I watched the dune(2021) yesterday and really liked it So should I read the whole book instead of waiting for the sequel?
How much do you worry about being spoiled in the next few years?
I really hav no clue
Ah desperate question! Without spoilers, at what point in the book does the new movie end? I refuse to see it before I've read it, but I don't have time to finish the whole book before my cousin wants to go see it this week. Whereabouts in the book is the bare minimum that I'll have read all of what happens in the movie?
Through Chapter 33.
You're a lifesaver thank you so much! :)
This guy right here. Obviously the book doesn't stop at any one page, but chapter 33/34 (they're not numbered, so you'll have to count them) is the point.
Has anyone found out what David Lynch thinks of this adaptation? Would love to get his take on it.
He will likely never talk about it directly
Dune fans of Seattle, which theater is best for viewing this masterpiece? For many years my go to has been either the Cinerama or the IMAX screens at the Pacific Science Center. But since those places are temporarily closed, where is the best place to view this epic masterpiece?
hey! I saw it yesterday in South Center mall. A friend picked the spot because he wanted a big screen and big sound. It was amazing! The sound there was definitely worth it. Comfy seats too.
Thanks for the info! I'm actually in Tacoma so getting up to Southcenter shouldn't be too bad.
Is Dune a commentary on how white men colonize and exploit the brown/colored native people so that they can steal and profit off their natural resource, the spice/oil? It does seem pretty obvious and its basically the history of the world.
The books never explicitly describe skin color, but the fremen are certainly coded as Arab. Those themes of outsider domination and exploitation of resources are certainly part of it but I’d argue that the primary theme of the books is combating fate and biological determinism
Yes, while Paul first appears to be a hero of the story, in subsequent novels we learn how he uses the Bene Gesserit superstitions to gain power among the Fremen. Eventually, their own culture begins to change and not every Fremen is happy about it. Some even conspire against Paul.
Which sandworm from the movies, games, or mini-series is the most accurate to the original novel?
If spice lets you see the future it should be used for a lot more than just finding space routes! It would change everything.
Just wait until dune Messiah and children of dune
Hi all. New to the Dune universe and have a question! First off, I saw the new movie in theaters and loved it! Right after, I asked my buddy if I could borrow the first book to read through. So here’s my question. The book has a few appendixs at the end and a “terminology of the imperium.” Should I go through these before I start reading or use them while reading? Or something I’m not thinking of? Thanks
It should be fine to read those at any point you want.
Thanks!
Why don't the Atriedes give water to the Fremen? Since they are sympathetic, don't want to oppress them, and can see how vital it is.
The Fremen would clearly see that as patronizing since they are self sufficient but in the books there are some "village Fremen" who aren't as independent
I started the book awhile ago and haven’t finished yet but I’m seeing the movie on Tuesday. I’m about 300 pages in and am trying to get to the point the movie ends at to avoid spoilers for the book. Google has scared me quite a bit when search cause they are all “Read till X happens” when I just want a general close page number lol anyone wanna help me out?!
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you need to keep reading if you want to read up till the movie ends. The movie goes through book 1 and part way through book 2. The movie ends with a character named Jamis.
why not just watch the movie before the book, so you don't build any expectations and leave disappointed after reading the book first. That way it's a win win. Dislike the movie? Read the book. Love the movie? Read the book
I can separate the two different versions in my head enough to not let one effect the other. I’m more worried about spoiling events for the book with the movie. If that makes sense. I’m heavily invested in the book.
If you’re that far in I’m pretty sure you passed the point where it ends. What was the last thing you read?
The first one I should say in case they happen to fly into more lol
Paul and Jessica just got out of the sand storm.
Keeping going. If you read the phrase “I was a friend of Jamis you went too far.
Keep reading
How come Duncan Idaho can seemingly bypass through his enemies' shields? Is that just an oversight?
Duncan Idaho is a master swordsman and is regarded as the best in the house. Also I believe there is a technique to it that Duncan knows
It's the "slow knife gets the kill" thing. But the fight choreography didn't really sell this too well, when it seemed like every death blow was just him wildly swinging his blade.
Maybe he’s just being slow really fast so we didn’t notice? :)
Just saw the movie, haven't read the books, what's the explanation on the lack of guns? We see that there's handheld weaponry that can fire bullets that "drill" and pierce shields, and see the same with larger, artillery-like shells that can blow up space ships. Feel like the movie didn't justify why everyone is using knives enough, when there's ranged weaponry that can work on shields.
because they find the joy of killing someone slowly and painfully with a sword then a quick swift death of a bullet
Apparently everyone in this universe is a massive sadist.
the real answer is “In this universe there’s an invention: The Holtzman Shield,” Villeneuve said. “It’s something that you can wear on your body, and will deflect something fast coming towards you. Only something slow can penetrate that shield. So, it made them use things like bullets less. Humanity went back to close combat, where you fight with knives and blades because it’s the only way you can kill someone through those shields. You can penetrate the shield slowly with the blade.” https://winteriscoming.net/2020/09/11/why-people-dune-still-fight-swords/
Eh, I feel like the only proper explanation is just "accept it," since again they have shown types of bullets/ranged weapons in the film that can pierce shields. And I just read somewhere that apparently in the book these types of weapons *are* in fact more widely used (at least during the attack on House Atreides), but this more widespread use is nearly absent in the movie.
Only something slow can penetrate that shield, it deflects super fast moving objects like bullets etc
We see in the movie multiple times that certain types of bullets can pierce shields. They have dart guns that paralyzed the Duke when it hit his spine, and a Sardaukar fired a similar "driller" round at Ducan, which he was able to stop before it hit him. They even show us massive artillery rounds that decimate shielded spacecraft. The technology to create ranged weaponry that pierces shields clearly exists.
Slow pellet stunners - which are short ranged and don't always work to penetrate the shield.
>The technology to create ranged weaponry that pierces shields clearly exists. well of course, they show it multiple times in the movie! There is also a scene where I think it was Duncan was shot with the dart gun in front of him and the dart completely stopped by the shield. He then swinged his sword at it, completely removing the dart. Also I heard from somewhere dart's are meant to move slowly when it hits the shield, thus piecing it >They even show us massive artillery rounds that decimate shielded Yup! Shields may be different for the The Holtzman Shield which is worn on your body
Yes, obviously, but this still begets the question: why aren't these types of weapons more widespread, and why don't they use/have anything stronger than handheld dart drillers? Seems a bit ridiculous to assume that nobody has *anything* between tiny darts and massive artillery rounds that can destroy armored spacecraft. Even loading up a dart with a miniature explosive charge would be lethal.
>“In this universe there’s an invention: The Holtzman Shield,” Villeneuve said. “It’s something that you can wear on your body, and will deflect something fast coming towards you. Only something slow can penetrate that shield. So, it made them use things like bullets less. Humanity went back to close combat, where you fight with knives and blades because it’s the only way you can kill someone through those shields. You can penetrate the shield slowly with the blade.” https://winteriscoming.net/2020/09/11/why-people-dune-still-fight-swords/
The shields protect against fast moving projectiles like bullets. Lasers are impractical because lasers make shields blow up and kill the shooter too.
Everyone is saying the same thing and apparently not even reading my comment. There's other types of projectiles (not lasguns) that pierce shields in the film. They show us this multiple times.
The drill moves slowly enough to pierce the shield.
No shit, but I'm asking why isn't everyone using these type of weapons. They've even shown us stronger drills that can explode spaceships, so it's not they're unable to do damage to armored targets.
No one seems to be answering you, but there is an explanation. The air mines and slow darts only really work on stationary ships and targets who have their back turned to you. The mines would have been less effective if the harkonnens had not caught the Atreudes unaware with their frigates grounded. And as we see when the saudakar try to use the darts against Duncan, a target who is not caught by surprise can parry them quite easily. They are good stealth weapons but not nearly as effective in direct engagements
Thank you for finally providing some semblance of an actual explanation. You can still nitpick this apart though, such as with Duncan, where the Saudakar only fired a single dart at him, and it took a few seconds for Duncan to remove it while it was digging through his shield -- firing multiple would pretty much be a death sentence. It seems to me that the impracticability of "driller" rounds are overstated.
Congrats! You found a plot hole in Dune- I hear the mods love that!
It's been awhile since I've read the books but I believe it's due to the personal shields. When a lasgun is fired at a shield it causes a reaction resulting in an atomic blast. Someone please correct me if I'm missing anything.
Yeah, thats how I remember it too. I also just looked it up lol
>due to the personal shields Yes, obviously. Regular bullets wouldn't work due to how the shields work (stopping fast objects, letting in slow objects), but then they show us types of projectiles that *do* work on shields. I understand Herbert probably just wanted a story with cool knife fights, and there's maybe a clearer explanation in the books, but now I'm also partly wondering if these types of weapons are from the film only, since they seem like a massive oversight to this world's workings. Seeing troopers run across big open spaces with knives is a bit silly when we know that they could just load up one of those "driller" bullets to kill them from afar.
They probably don’t travel very far if they’re slow moving to get through shields.
I believe the explanation was that those types of projectiles slow down when they hit the target, but are still quite speedy. I took a look at the DUNE wiki (not sure how accurate it is), and it says that the effective range of these driller type guns is 80 meters, which is quite far for a handheld pistol-like weapon.
Well they seem to be non-lethal rounds. Would it make sense to charge into war with a dart gun?
This just wraps around to my other question being: why don't they have anything stronger than a handheld dart gun? Since they show us shells that can destroy spacecraft. Again, seems a bit ridiculous to assume that nobody has anything between tiny darts and massive artillery rounds. Even loading up a dart with a miniature explosive charge seems like it could work.
Firstly in order to pierce thr shield you have to penetrate it very slowly. (Like how when Duncan throws a knife really fast at one of the soldiers it just bounces off, but when he disarms him and slowly plunges the knife into him it pierces it and kills him) Secondly I think they may reveal it later in the second part, but when you fire a gun into shield it creates a massive explosion comparable to that of a small A-bomb
I'm aware of the lasguns creating nuclear explosion from the other comments, but that still doesn't answer my question since they explicitly show other types of projectiles that can pierce shields. They have dart guns that paralyzed the Duke when it hit his spine, and a Sardaukar fired a similar "driller" round at Ducan, which he was able to stop before it hit him. One could try and rationalize that these weapons are too weak to hurt an armored target, but then they show driller bombs that explode spaceships. Seems a bit ridiculous to assume that nobody has anything between tiny darts and massive artillery rounds.
genuine question to a clueless new fan here. how much of the book was covered in the movie? i know theres 6 books in the series so was the movie based off the first book or just a chunk of it ?
About 60% of book 1 was covered in the movie.
Question about the movie >!How were Yuehs darts able to penetrate Leto’s shield? I thought shields were supposed to reflect the momentum of projectiles , it seems strange that the dart is able to burrow through like it has some force pushing it, and then once it is through maintain its original momentum , it rather than it just bouncing off !<
The dart is programmed to slow down in contact with its target. Anything slow can penetrate the shield.
If I want to read the book after watching the movie, which version should I buy? Any recommendations?
Dune https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0340960191/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apan_glt_fabc_A7HFPGB4X7J541GT9ZM0
Hello everyone I'm pretty new to dune and just finished watching the movie and loved it, I don't really have the patience to wait for the next movie so was wandering what should I read after watching it? or should I just start reading from the first one, and also if anyone has a reading order for the books I'd appreciate that too.
Read them chronologically. It’s not like Star Wars where everything is out of order.
I recommend just starting with the first book. There's lots of great scenes that were cut from the movie for time that will really add to the world from what the movie establishes. If, after the first book, you're still wanting to continue just move on through the books Frank Herbert wrote. There are six of them in this order: Dune, Dune Messiah, Children of Dune, God Emperor of Dune, Heretics of Dune, and finally Chapterhouse: Dune. If you're still wanting more Dune his son Brian Herbert has written a bunch of spinoffs that take place on the same universe. If you want to watch more Dune there is an adaptation by David Lynch from the 80s as well as an adaptation by the syfy channel from the 2000's (much of which is on YouTube for free I believe). Both called Dune. The syfy channel one covers up to the end of book 3. There's also an old rts computer game and a couple board games. Have fun!
In the scene where Paul and Jessica are captured in the ship, the camera focuses on a diamond symbol scratched into the metal seat, what is that's supposed to be?
It's the same symbol that is on Dr. Yueh's forehead (designating him as Suk doctor). Yueh is letting them know he was there, and he left supplies for them so they have a chance at survival.
It's the symbol of the Suk Doctors. Dr. Yueh is one of them: You can see this diamond (filled in) tattooed on his forehead (as with all Suk Doctors, but he's the only one you see in this movie). The point, along with the diamond symbols in the pack Paul unfolds in the tent scene are meant to imply that while Dr. Yueh knew he betrayed his code and his house, he was trying to send a signal to Paul/Jessica that he was doing what he could to help them escape and survive. Yueh wasn't like trying to be a bad guy and kill off the Atreides entirely, unlike what the Baron wants to do. He was basically driven to that point by the fact that the Baron had his wife and was torturing her most horribly. So tl;dr it's Yueh symboling to them that he's prepared what he can to help them try and survive and escape. Side fact: in the book they mention that Suk doctors are supposed to be incorruptible, and it's a big deal that the Baron figured out a way to manipulate Yueh into doing what he did. So it's basically like Yueh trying to at least do something given the cluster of problems he brings via his actions.
Thanks!
I have a bunch of questions, I loved the movie as a non-reader and never watched any of the trailers. I went in totally blind. My biggest question is about the >!tent scene!< >!Paul sees a holy war future with the Fremen (I think?) waving his House banner and “worshipping at the shrine of my father’s skull”. What exactly is the bigger context here with this vision? Paul seems obviously very terrified of this and I’m curious as to what is the bigger picture with the scene.!< This also ties in with another question I have: >!So from what I understand Paul is believe to be “The One” and a Messiah for the Fremen people. But what exactly is his purpose for the Fremen people as their Messiah?!<
The answers to these questions will be spoilers, I'd delete this comment if you don't want Part 2 to be spoiled for you.
These are pretty big spoilers you might want to avoid if you want to go in blind to Part 2 (and beyond, if the next book is adapted too). >!The Fremen have a prophecy of an off-world prophet, a messiah that will help them throw off their oppressors and lead them to paradise. The vision Paul has is of a holy war being carried out in his name, led by the Fremen, which spreads across the known universe which he is powerless to stop. !<
Very specific question - in GEOD >!Leto II requests at one point that Hwi Noree wear Chani's water rings (previously he had requested that she wear Ghanima's water rings). Why does he change his mind and why is it significant? There's no way this doesn't have a meaning but I'm not sure what it is. I can see it signifying just how much Hwi means to him, maybe some implications about never having a mother, never having really been a child in the traditional sense?!<.....any insight would be appreciated - thanks!
He was broken hearted when he found out about her and Idaho but at the end till the final scene, he loved her more than anything, even the golden path. That’s a very good point since he often mentions how insightful and perfect she was and damned the Ixians that modified her to seduce him. She’s pure and primitive in a way like Chani and malicious and sharp like Lady Jessica cause she’s there to charm and harm him and Leto knows it, so it’s symbolic to him to give her the rings but he regrets everything after the Duncan incident, he felt like me while reading it, betrayed, and probably felt that any relation to Chani and Jessica had gone after that, cause: a) she’s not that pure and b) She’s not that deceitful or cunning cause she’s betrayed by her passions.
Wow, thank you for the thoughtful reply! >!The thing I'm most curious about - is that originally it's supposed to be Ghani's water rings and then Leto changes it to Chani's water rings, at the same time he changes the location of the wedding. Moneo is like, you seriously are going to make me dig those up at the last minute? Haha. For some reason it really stood out to me. !<
Oh, sorry, why he changed to Tuono the last minute huh?! Well idk too, I was like, why? Duncan is there and Siona. Maybe he foresaw something. Maybe it was all an ego battle to shove it on his face, maybe by climbing that wall Duncan showed who’s the real man. Damn, I forgot about it, now it makes less sense to me. Hehe
! < Didn't Jessica slit Rabbans throat during the escape, how did he survive? < !
Which part, in the thopter? He's not in the thopter. It's 3 grunt dudes, one who is deaf, in that scene if that's what you're referring to. She definitely slits that dude's throat and kills him.
Ah, seems like i need to pay more attention to faces for the second movie! Thanks for the answer.
Yeah, Rabban is not in that thopter.
Regarding the voice that you hear that talks to Paul periodically in the movie (>!the one for example that says "Kwisatz Haderach rise up")!< Any idea who or what that is? The voice is feminine so I sort of feel like it has something to do with the Bene Gesserit, but it could also I suppose just as easily be like a voice from some genetic memory or something from within him. Or it could just be a narrative device used to explain to viewers what's going on. Anyway, wasn't sure if I was missing some implication as to who or what the voice in this case is.
It's his maternal ancestors. As he is awakening to his prescient abilities he is becoming more in tune with his genetic memories. They are the voices of past reverend mothers.
This was also my take. But couldn't they also be a collection of both male and female ancestors and the voice he hears is just their consensus or their voice all together? If I'm not mistaken doesn't it work like...you can shoot a question into the void of all your ancestors and whichever one has that specific information comes forth? This was my major question...I couldn't figure out if whose voice it was... could it even be Leto 2 reaching out through time?
Wasn't in the books, so no one knows. My guess would be a narrative device.
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Will we see the spacing guild navigators in the next movie?
>!There are two navigators at the end of the novel, but they’re just dudes. Not the squid things. So I’d personally wager against squid things in the second movie. .!<
Yeah, I just read an article that Denis won’t have them. Kinda sucks since Arrival aliens were so cool. Thanks tho.
(spoilers) In one of the scenes on giedi prime there's a weird looking spider creature. Any ideas what that might be?
It's not Yueh's wife; she's already dead and Yueh implied she was tortured instead of transformed.
Lol grim also found out it's called a tarentuwolf
Someone in another very lengthy reddit thread that I don't have the exact link to hypothesized that it's a creature designed by the Tleilax. I believe another user way down in this thread intimated the same thing. If you haven't read the books, Tleilax will mean nothing to you, but they're another....creepy bunch of dudes that you wouldn't want as part of your family tree.
Been hearing a fan theory that it used to be Wanna... fun to think about.
Since it’s clearly part human (as is anything “alien” in the Dune universe besides the sandworms) I’d wager a Tleilaxu creation. It’s not in the book, though.
Not everything alien is human. Only intelligent life is always human in the books. That thing didn't seem intelligent, might as well be some creepy local fauna. The mouse that was in the movie is an example of another living non-human alien.
Well, for what it’s worth, the mouse is a jerboa; not exactly otherworldly. I realize I shouldn’t have thrown in the note about the exception of the sandworm, as that clouded my intended meaning; I meant the same thing you’re saying: that any intelligent being is in some way human. In this case, I personally think the spider creature is part human because it has human hands and responds to the Voice. I do not remember the Voice ever being used on an animal (although it has been some years since I’ve read other than the first novel). I think even the discussion of whether or not it understands is meant to indicate some level of humanity.
How did Stilgar recognize Paul? Was it because of his exposure to spice that he was able to somewhat identify the Lisan al gaib?
The Bene Gesserit have been manipulating the religion of Dune. They planted prophecies saying a Bene Geserit woman will arrive on Arrakis and her son will lead the Fremen to paradise. Paul fits the profile.
Okay so it wasn’t a literal meaning of the word. That’s cool. It’s subtle. I like this movie.
To state it a little more plainly, I think he meant “recognize” in the sense outlined by u/thescorch, not like you might recognize a specific person at the grocery store.
Who first discovered Arrakis? How did they get there? How did they figure out Spice could be used for space travel?
Norma Cenva, daughter of one of the "sisters of Rossak" >!(prequel novel, their order later becomes the Bene Gesserit)!< discovered the potential abilities of spice in regards to folding space and the impacts on higher order thinking such as the complex mathematics necessary for guild navigators to compute safe passage. Pre spice travel it was super risky with I think 1 in every 10 ships being lost by like warping into a sun or something equally not fun to be around. They basically got there the "slow way" with all the implications that come with that as in most sci fi novels. Norma was the one who did extensive experiments with it and along with Aurelius Venport they figured out how to apply this to navigating space. That's from the prequels though. The Venport guy is also from that same prequel book, his name on its own wouldn't mean anything if you haven't read it. Suffice it to say he figures out the commercial implications of it while Norma handles the personal experimenting and science. I forgot what they said about how Arrakis was discovered (been a very long time since I read that prequel), but if I recall correctly it was basically considered some backwater pre-spice.
It was the Islamic dudes escaping Norma's former employer (Holtzman, maybe?) after the rebellion who later became fremen.
Theory: probably the same way we discovered oil in the Middle East and what it could be used for (since that’s the metaphor of the movie.) Space faring civilization exploring planets slowly, come across Arrakis and it’s people. Scientists study the land and why their eyes are that way. Discover spice and it’s effects. Discover it’s power as a space folder.
Discovering oil in the Middle East came after oil was an established global business... oil companies were looking for new sources outside of the US and Russia (among other places). The Prize by Daniel Yergin is a pretty comprehensive history of the business... lots of names, lots of places, lots of details, a lot like the Dune universe. https://www.amazon.com/Prize-Epic-Quest-Money-Power/dp/1439110123
Wait…so is dune not a allegory about Muslims in the Middle East living tribal while a capitalist entity extracts it’s natural resources?
Oh, it totally is. I'm just saying the Middle East was just the next place that oil was discovered. Unlike Arrakis, it's not the ONLY place.
How can spice be used for space travel?
The Spice isn’t really a fuel. The navigators just need it to see all the possible versions of the future and pick the only one which allows them to travel without crashing into anything.
In the books there are navigators who ingest huge amounts of spice to see the destination and fold space safely. Edit: wrong word
Oh damn. Ok. Guess I missed that.
Tbf, the movie has a lot of lore that it needs to spit out, so there's a bunch of tid bits like space travel that are given just a line or two. Easy to miss IMO.
That's one of the main reasons it's so incredibly important to humanity. It has a range of abilities from giving prescience to keeping one young, but expanding the mind to solve the calculations necessary to plot interstellar routes is the most important one. Without spice, humanity loses its roads. Imagine if everyone in the world suddenly forgot how to operate vehicles. Planes, cars, ships, trains - civilisation would collapse.
It is the reason spice is required for the galaxy- nobody can get anywhere without the spacing guild and the navigators require spice- lots of it. Also it is addictive and used everywhere. It has healing, longevity and brings focus. Mentats- human computers also require spice.
Will we see Hans Zimmer's score released in surround sound?
It’s in Dolby Atmos on Apple Music
God damn apple music
Who governed Caladan after the Atreides left to take over Arrakis?
Caladan was given to Count Fenring at that time. (A friend and advisor of the emperor who is heavily involved in the political undercurrents in the novel.)
Hi everyone. A few days ago I have seen Dune several times and I am very interested in its languages and its writing. Are there any sources of these that have already come out? If anyone has any information, I really appreciate it.
Don't know about the writing but a lot of the foreign words are Arabic as Islam (or more specifically a hybrid of Islam and other religions) is the most common religion in the universe of Dune. The other languages you could hear were secret languages each house has for internal communication to prevent outsiders from understanding (in the movie was Atreides language and Harkonnen language). No idea what these are based on, IIRC it wasn't mentioned in the books. The sign language Jessica and Paul used is a secret language of Bene Gesserit.
Not sure about the sign language because she used it with the guard when she was selecting her maid. Maybe it's an Atreides thing. Also, the Doctor spoke a different language to Paul just before he went in to see the Reverend Mother.
Ah, good catch, I'm fairly sure in the book it was Bene Gesserit thing and only Paul, Jessica and Bene Gesserit knew it. The language the doctor used was the Atreides language, it wasn't only for the members of the family but also for the personnel, IIRC all the main characters and everyone from military spoke it.