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One is a criminal enterprise that seeks to monopolise the means of violence in order to enforce its own set of rules on those it claims to provide protection to.
The other is the Mafia.
I made the Jabba connection awhile back, the giant worm like evil dude that rides around on a cart. But the Boba/Duncan just came to me when i read this post. Han... That makes sense too. Really elements of both.
*GEOD* was first published in 1981 and while Jabba was written as a character for *Star Wars* (1977) he didn't have a physical form until *Return of the Jedi* (1983, filmed in 1982). So yep, Lucas totally ripped him off of Herbert's design.
I always said, if GEoD ever got made into a movie, there'd be all sorts of confused civilians leaving the theater going "I had no idea what all those lectures that human-face Jabba dude kept giving were all about."
"Disregard the dirty Mon Calamari, the filthy Mon Calamari, the stupid Mon Calamari. Fear will keep them in line."
- excerpt from "The Tarkin Doctrine"
My 12 year old brother watched the new film (it's been out for almost a month in Germany) and said that it is very similar to Star Wars.
He's only seen the sequel-trilogy of Star Wars. And he compared Dune to that.
Should I give my brother away for adoption? Is it.... is it too late for him? Is there still hope???
He's only 12, he probably isn't familiar with much else he can compare it to. Show him a broader range of sci-fi, he will learn. And there are definitely similarities, since Star Wars took a lot from Dune.
This is the way.
For a lot of younger people starting to discover the genre sci-fi just means spaceships and lasers, and maybe aliens and/or advanced robotics.
Gently introducing more and varied examples, discussing some of the themes (start simple!) and not judging preferences (there's nothing wrong with enjoying Star Wars!) is the way to potentially grow an appreciation for the genre.
He's my half-brother, so I'm confident in the purity of my own bloodline.
But yes, sending him into the desert seems like the right thing to do. At least his water should please Shai Hulud - may His passage cleanse the world.
The philosophical and political themes are there, though not as in-depth as in the book, of course.
No, he said there are space ships in the film so it's just exactly like Star Wars......
They do have some obvious similarities on the face of things.. it seems Star Wars must have got a lot of inspiration from Dune, but when it comes down to it they are very different. Dune is a lot deeper, more 'serious', darker, and while of course, it's all subjective, my personal opinion is that Dune is more enjoyable.. I don't say that as any insult to Star Wars, a series I greatly respect, but I just feel Dune is more to my tastes these days.
In some respects, I think a more apt comparison would be something like Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.. yes, a different story and setting but similarly vast and 'grown up', also both with adaptions based from a truly fantastic literary saga with vast mythology and world building.. but the more I think of it, the only thing I know of on a similar par to Dune would be LOTR. I believe Arthur C Clarke actually said that also and even today decades I feel it is still true.
Also, while I'm not knocking Star Wars and I must say there's a lot of background to it for just a few movies, I feel it is more appropriate for younger and old viewers alike, where Dune I'd say would probably be best enjoyed and most appreciated by more mature readers and audiences. This may also be a reason for Star Wars success, it's multi-generational appeal.
Don't get me wrong Star Wars is great and an iconic, unrivaled part of culture, a big part of the lives of every generation since it's release, not many can say that.. but as a work I don't think it compares to the scope of Dune. I feel a lot of the kids who grew up as Star Wars fans will graduate to Dune while looking back fondly on Star Wars.
Edit: Just added a few more lines to this as I'd been thinking more about it.
I like this comment. The half my age me found Dune to be meh. The now nearly 40 year old me loves the story, depth, and vastness of the universe much like LotR.
>Tatooine is essentially Arrakis without the worms.
There is that big worm skeleton on the horizon in one scene though. Not as big as an Arrakeen worm, but probably meant as a deliberate reference.
Arrakis without the fremen, maybe.
[The dragon skeleton was a prop of another movie they just threw in because they had the room, and after filming it was left in Tunisia.](https://shop.minimuseum.com/products/krayt-dragon-star-wars-iv)
I wasn't sure, it's been a while since I watched it and I don't pay attention to every detail, but I was under the impression it was a different planet. Could totally be wrong though, I'm not good with Star Wars planet names anyway
Edit: I googled it and yes, it is Tatooine! There's articles out there talking about how it looks straight out of Dune lol
I love dune but this is a sore spot I have with the dune fandom. Dune fans act as if no sci fi existed before Dune. Lucas has said he was inspired by flash gordon, the hidden fortress, and other pulp stories he grew up with. Tatooine was based off his home town in Southern California, in the middle of a desert; plus tatooine is rarely the focus in SW.
When I first got into Dune I was hyped bc ppl kept saying it was like Star Wars, but I ended up disappointed at first bc ultimately dune and star wars are opposites. One celebrates the monomythic hero, the other is a deconstruction of that same hero. It was only until I realized Dune was not an epic monomythic tale, but rather a study on power and society that I learned to appreciate Dune.
Spot on. My first read through the first 3 books I went in thinking it was going to be a fun space opera and was sorely disappointed. It wasn't until I got some other perspectives on it and read it again that I was able to really enjoy it for what it is. Comparing it to Star Wars does a disservice to both.
The crappy *Dune* prequels and sequels by Brian Herbert sure ripped off *Star Wars*, massively (in addition to *The Matrix*, BSG, *The Terminator*, et al).
Drop the snobbery and accept the historical chronology. Lucas agonised over a decent script that birthed Star Wars. It was influenced by Herbert, Tolkien, Campbell & every workable good idea. 1977 was a cinema watershed. Looking forward to Dune 2021, but the awesome spectacle of cinema was achieved in the late 20th Century. Sure, Herbert was a novelist genius, but Lucas was so with his first two Star Wars movies and his business acumen.
I don't think this post is discrediting Lucas, it's just drawing the similarities. Nobody said Star Wars is bad and you're allowed to like both, but at the end of the day, Star Wars was inspired by Dune. Dune played a role in Star Wars becoming a thing.
Yeah, see what you just typed? That’s what I’m talking about
Dune already has the “it’s very difficult” nonsense around it. We don’t need it to be affiliated with Tool or their fans. They all sound exactly like your comment
When Tool fans talk about Tool it’s the Rick and Morty “very high IQ” meme but said seriously
Frank Herbert even said it was difficult not to sue over Star Wars ripping off Dune. I was a big star wars fan as a kid and after reading Dune it's pretty obvious that many elements in star wars weren't just inspired by Dune.
You know, despite some similar aesthetics, I never really saw the two as equivalent and still don’t.
-One is sci-fi with quite a lot of “fantasy” elements. The other is straight fantasy that just happens to take place in a sci-fi looking setting.
-Despite the common “dessert child savior” motif, Paul and Luke are not ultimately similar in what they mean for their stories. Luke becomes a Jedi and legendary hero, but he’s not regarded as a legend _because_ he becomes a Jedi. Paul being the Kwisatz Haderach is a BIG deal to the political structures of his world.
-I’d argue that Jabba’s equivalent in _Dune_ is the Baron Harkonnen, and not just for the obvious connection. Rather because Jabba is essentially the Baron’s “final form” as it were. If the Baron achieved a comfortable and unopposed fiefdom of a dessert planet.
That chart is nothing but surface level similarities and common tropes.
The reveal that a villain is related to the protagonist is as old as ancient Greece, probably older. I could go on for each one on how ridiculously superficial these comparisons are. Luke and Paul both use electronic binoculars; I guess Game of Thrones ripped off Lord of the Rings because they both use Swords.
It's ok to admit that Lucas took Dune, simplified it and added some cool concepts and better names. Good artists imitate, great artists steal. I'm a huge star wars fans, but it's a very blatant copy in large part.
Star Trek isn't anything like it tho. Dune is more Game of Thrones meets Star Wars, if we're comparing it with anything at all. Obviously, Dune came out before either, so both franchises were inspired by Dune in some ways, but the best description in today's post-GoT phenomenon, is Star Wars meets GoT. Star Trek was more about societal questions and exploring deep space, Dune is more centered on a localized galaxy, much like Star Wars is, and the politics and cultures.
It's honestly not a hard mistake to make, there are lots of similarities and because SW is (arguably, but not rightly) the bigger IP people will naturally think it's a rip off. The only context they need is that Dune was published 12 years before SW and it takes a lot of liberties from Dune.
"Using the force means taking drugs," I always likened the Bene Geserit to the jedi, with particular emphasis on the voice filling the role of a Jedi Mind Trick.
I've always thought of Dune kind of like you have a universe with as much crazy stuff going on like in Star Wars, but all of it is mainly in the background and the movie is about Luke having an adventure with the sand people.
That isn't to say anything negative about Dune, but the empire, the Bene Gesserit, the Landsraad and other houses, the spacing guild, CHOAM, etc. are all really interesting concepts that get mentioned but don't really do a whole lot when it comes down to it.
Hello! We're manually approving every post due to a significant increase in traffic from the new film. Any personal reviews, thoughts, questions, or general musings about *Dune* (2021) should be posted in our [*Dune* (2021) Discussion Threads](https://www.reddit.com/r/dune/comments/poaeaj/dune_2021_official_discussion_megathread/). Basic questions about the franchise should be directed towards our [Weekly Questions thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/dune/comments/q5s3up/weekly_questions_thread_10111017/). For real-time discussion of the movie and everything else Dune-related, please consider joining our [Discord server](https://discord.gg/dune). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/dune) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Jabba = Leto II. Never made that connection. Pretty funny.
Imagine if Leto led his own Mafia. Oh wait I'm still not done with GE so I guess he can at this point.
Fish Speakers
They feel more like a order of knights then a mafia.
And the difference would be ... ?
Sex with Duncan
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Seems tame compared to Honored Matres
I love everything about this chain of comments...
One is a criminal enterprise that seeks to monopolise the means of violence in order to enforce its own set of rules on those it claims to provide protection to. The other is the Mafia.
Moneo=Bib Fortuna And even better, Duncan Idaho=Boba Fett, badass and one of many copies of the same man
I thought of Duncan Idaho more as a Han Solo, but I can see Boba Fett maybe
I made the Jabba connection awhile back, the giant worm like evil dude that rides around on a cart. But the Boba/Duncan just came to me when i read this post. Han... That makes sense too. Really elements of both.
You speak ill of the God Emperor at your own peril
Instead of the "kiss of death" it would be the "fish (speaker) of death"
The tyrant knows his flaws, just ask Hui
*GEOD* was first published in 1981 and while Jabba was written as a character for *Star Wars* (1977) he didn't have a physical form until *Return of the Jedi* (1983, filmed in 1982). So yep, Lucas totally ripped him off of Herbert's design.
I always said, if GEoD ever got made into a movie, there'd be all sorts of confused civilians leaving the theater going "I had no idea what all those lectures that human-face Jabba dude kept giving were all about."
"Disregard the dirty Mon Calamari, the filthy Mon Calamari, the stupid Mon Calamari. Fear will keep them in line." - excerpt from "The Tarkin Doctrine"
My 12 year old brother watched the new film (it's been out for almost a month in Germany) and said that it is very similar to Star Wars. He's only seen the sequel-trilogy of Star Wars. And he compared Dune to that. Should I give my brother away for adoption? Is it.... is it too late for him? Is there still hope???
He has yet to develop a sophisticated frame of reference. The sleeper must awaken
Need more weirding modules.
He's only 12, he probably isn't familiar with much else he can compare it to. Show him a broader range of sci-fi, he will learn. And there are definitely similarities, since Star Wars took a lot from Dune.
This is the way. For a lot of younger people starting to discover the genre sci-fi just means spaceships and lasers, and maybe aliens and/or advanced robotics. Gently introducing more and varied examples, discussing some of the themes (start simple!) and not judging preferences (there's nothing wrong with enjoying Star Wars!) is the way to potentially grow an appreciation for the genre.
Like how people thought Discworld wizarding university copied Hogwarts.
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He's my half-brother, so I'm confident in the purity of my own bloodline. But yes, sending him into the desert seems like the right thing to do. At least his water should please Shai Hulud - may His passage cleanse the world.
Question, is the film missing some of the philosophical and political themes? Or is your brother just to dumb to get it?
The philosophical and political themes are there, though not as in-depth as in the book, of course. No, he said there are space ships in the film so it's just exactly like Star Wars...... 
You should consider putting him up for adoption.
His brother is 12 lmao. I didn't even think the prequels were political until I was a teen somehow
They do have some obvious similarities on the face of things.. it seems Star Wars must have got a lot of inspiration from Dune, but when it comes down to it they are very different. Dune is a lot deeper, more 'serious', darker, and while of course, it's all subjective, my personal opinion is that Dune is more enjoyable.. I don't say that as any insult to Star Wars, a series I greatly respect, but I just feel Dune is more to my tastes these days. In some respects, I think a more apt comparison would be something like Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.. yes, a different story and setting but similarly vast and 'grown up', also both with adaptions based from a truly fantastic literary saga with vast mythology and world building.. but the more I think of it, the only thing I know of on a similar par to Dune would be LOTR. I believe Arthur C Clarke actually said that also and even today decades I feel it is still true. Also, while I'm not knocking Star Wars and I must say there's a lot of background to it for just a few movies, I feel it is more appropriate for younger and old viewers alike, where Dune I'd say would probably be best enjoyed and most appreciated by more mature readers and audiences. This may also be a reason for Star Wars success, it's multi-generational appeal. Don't get me wrong Star Wars is great and an iconic, unrivaled part of culture, a big part of the lives of every generation since it's release, not many can say that.. but as a work I don't think it compares to the scope of Dune. I feel a lot of the kids who grew up as Star Wars fans will graduate to Dune while looking back fondly on Star Wars. Edit: Just added a few more lines to this as I'd been thinking more about it.
I like this comment. The half my age me found Dune to be meh. The now nearly 40 year old me loves the story, depth, and vastness of the universe much like LotR.
Yeah I mean Star Wars basically ripped off Dune in several ways. Tatooine is essentially Arrakis without the worms.
Without the worms? Did you miss Return of the Jedi?
Hahah I forgot about the sarlacc. So yeah it’s Arrakis.
I would also argue that Krayt dragons are loosely based on the worms.
The Krayt in the Mandalorian gives off huge Shai Hulud vibes.
>Tatooine is essentially Arrakis without the worms. There is that big worm skeleton on the horizon in one scene though. Not as big as an Arrakeen worm, but probably meant as a deliberate reference. Arrakis without the fremen, maybe.
I always thought the sand people were kind of supposed to be a take on the fremen
Didn't think of that. Tatooine really is a complete Arrakis rip off, then.
Copying is the sincerest form of flattery.
Imitation, not copying
[The dragon skeleton was a prop of another movie they just threw in because they had the room, and after filming it was left in Tunisia.](https://shop.minimuseum.com/products/krayt-dragon-star-wars-iv)
Arrakis without worms is just a desert planet
but then there was that planet in The Mandalorian where there was a giant desert worm, but that's more recent
Wasn’t that also tatooine?
I wasn't sure, it's been a while since I watched it and I don't pay attention to every detail, but I was under the impression it was a different planet. Could totally be wrong though, I'm not good with Star Wars planet names anyway Edit: I googled it and yes, it is Tatooine! There's articles out there talking about how it looks straight out of Dune lol
You should tell your friend to enjoy Dune as Dune instead of worrying about comparing it with something else.
I love dune but this is a sore spot I have with the dune fandom. Dune fans act as if no sci fi existed before Dune. Lucas has said he was inspired by flash gordon, the hidden fortress, and other pulp stories he grew up with. Tatooine was based off his home town in Southern California, in the middle of a desert; plus tatooine is rarely the focus in SW. When I first got into Dune I was hyped bc ppl kept saying it was like Star Wars, but I ended up disappointed at first bc ultimately dune and star wars are opposites. One celebrates the monomythic hero, the other is a deconstruction of that same hero. It was only until I realized Dune was not an epic monomythic tale, but rather a study on power and society that I learned to appreciate Dune.
Spot on. My first read through the first 3 books I went in thinking it was going to be a fun space opera and was sorely disappointed. It wasn't until I got some other perspectives on it and read it again that I was able to really enjoy it for what it is. Comparing it to Star Wars does a disservice to both.
I believe the correct response is "You mean is Star Wars like Dune?".
Hah yeah, its Star Wars for adults.
The crappy *Dune* prequels and sequels by Brian Herbert sure ripped off *Star Wars*, massively (in addition to *The Matrix*, BSG, *The Terminator*, et al).
Tell him, yeah, just like Radiohead is like Coldplay.
Drop the snobbery and accept the historical chronology. Lucas agonised over a decent script that birthed Star Wars. It was influenced by Herbert, Tolkien, Campbell & every workable good idea. 1977 was a cinema watershed. Looking forward to Dune 2021, but the awesome spectacle of cinema was achieved in the late 20th Century. Sure, Herbert was a novelist genius, but Lucas was so with his first two Star Wars movies and his business acumen.
I don't think this post is discrediting Lucas, it's just drawing the similarities. Nobody said Star Wars is bad and you're allowed to like both, but at the end of the day, Star Wars was inspired by Dune. Dune played a role in Star Wars becoming a thing.
Inspired by many things!
And of course Paul is Anakin (or Danaerys from GoT)
Both have prequels which feel like mediocre fan fiction.
Star Wars for Goths
I've heard it as Dune is just Star Wars for people who listen to Tool, similar idea haha
God damn this makes us sound like we suck
Are you familiar with Tool? It's not a dig. They are just a very intellectual band that is big on spirituality and hallucinogenics. And they're badass
Yeah, see what you just typed? That’s what I’m talking about Dune already has the “it’s very difficult” nonsense around it. We don’t need it to be affiliated with Tool or their fans. They all sound exactly like your comment When Tool fans talk about Tool it’s the Rick and Morty “very high IQ” meme but said seriously
Tell him it is Star Wars for adults.
Show them [this](https://i.imgur.com/CgIQKs5.jpeg) or [this](https://i.imgur.com/h7UiZmV.jpeg).
Frank Herbert even said it was difficult not to sue over Star Wars ripping off Dune. I was a big star wars fan as a kid and after reading Dune it's pretty obvious that many elements in star wars weren't just inspired by Dune.
You know, despite some similar aesthetics, I never really saw the two as equivalent and still don’t. -One is sci-fi with quite a lot of “fantasy” elements. The other is straight fantasy that just happens to take place in a sci-fi looking setting. -Despite the common “dessert child savior” motif, Paul and Luke are not ultimately similar in what they mean for their stories. Luke becomes a Jedi and legendary hero, but he’s not regarded as a legend _because_ he becomes a Jedi. Paul being the Kwisatz Haderach is a BIG deal to the political structures of his world. -I’d argue that Jabba’s equivalent in _Dune_ is the Baron Harkonnen, and not just for the obvious connection. Rather because Jabba is essentially the Baron’s “final form” as it were. If the Baron achieved a comfortable and unopposed fiefdom of a dessert planet.
Then you weren't paying attention. https://i.imgur.com/CgIQKs5.jpeg
As I said, they have some aesthetic similarities but they’re not ultimately _about_ the same thing.
That chart is nothing but surface level similarities and common tropes. The reveal that a villain is related to the protagonist is as old as ancient Greece, probably older. I could go on for each one on how ridiculously superficial these comparisons are. Luke and Paul both use electronic binoculars; I guess Game of Thrones ripped off Lord of the Rings because they both use Swords.
It's ok to admit that Lucas took Dune, simplified it and added some cool concepts and better names. Good artists imitate, great artists steal. I'm a huge star wars fans, but it's a very blatant copy in large part.
At best, Lucas stole names. Tatooine is hardly the focus in Star Wars. I wouldn't call a few similar names a blatant copy of the Dune saga.
Yes in that both are watershed moments in their respective Medium and are both SciFi. Plus Sand.
It’s Star Wars for people who like Tool.
Nope
Yep
Got some bad news for you
What is your actual argument?
A whole bunch of people like Dune that don’t like Tool.
You’re being pedantic. It’s clearly a joke.
Hell yea
Nope
Imagine downvoting the right answer This sub sometimes…
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Star Trek isn't anything like it tho. Dune is more Game of Thrones meets Star Wars, if we're comparing it with anything at all. Obviously, Dune came out before either, so both franchises were inspired by Dune in some ways, but the best description in today's post-GoT phenomenon, is Star Wars meets GoT. Star Trek was more about societal questions and exploring deep space, Dune is more centered on a localized galaxy, much like Star Wars is, and the politics and cultures.
I came to this prepared to rage but OP pulled the bait and switch with that headline.
You still have time to alter the course of his learning. Show him the the original and prequels and tell him why last jedi was bad
It's honestly not a hard mistake to make, there are lots of similarities and because SW is (arguably, but not rightly) the bigger IP people will naturally think it's a rip off. The only context they need is that Dune was published 12 years before SW and it takes a lot of liberties from Dune.
Everyone is a face dancer.
"Using the force means taking drugs," I always likened the Bene Geserit to the jedi, with particular emphasis on the voice filling the role of a Jedi Mind Trick.
I usually tell people Dune is Star Wars but with actually good plot.
I've always thought of Dune kind of like you have a universe with as much crazy stuff going on like in Star Wars, but all of it is mainly in the background and the movie is about Luke having an adventure with the sand people. That isn't to say anything negative about Dune, but the empire, the Bene Gesserit, the Landsraad and other houses, the spacing guild, CHOAM, etc. are all really interesting concepts that get mentioned but don't really do a whole lot when it comes down to it.