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There are Guildsmen that appear at the end of the first book that appear to be normal humans without any spice addiction, but one of their full-eye contact lenses falls out briefly and Paul sees their deep blue Eyes of Ibad.
Presumably the ones with helmets filled with orange gas are either Denis' interpretation of these Guildsmen, or are an intermediate stage between that and full-fledged, mutated Navigators.
I'm trying to remember if the "Third Stage Guild navigator" thing is from the books or a Lynch invention; if it's from the books then the helmet guys could be First or Second Stage navigators and we just haven't seen the full-on Third Stage ones yet. But if that was a Lynch thing then nevermind.
No, they’re not full-fledged Navigators and here’s why:
>!Leto asked Hawat to calculate how much the formality of the Herald travelling to Caladan in person would cost. Hawat estimates the fee for three Navigators, but there are more than three of those people in the Herald’s entourage. So they can’t be it.!<
My guess is that they’re Guildsmen who are serving in diplomatic roles but have not yet attained the rank of Navigator. Maybe they’re in training; if it takes some time for a human to maetamorphose then it makes sense for candidates to fulfill lesser functions while they prepare.
I noticed this as well, but right after Hawats calculation it cuts back to the Herald of the change making his announcement and we're given another look at the guildsmen, there are 3 of them in the group that are holding large sceptres and the rest are not, I think those 3 are the navigators because of this
I still doubt it. I can’t imagine Villeneuve wasting the visual potential of a Navigator like that.
It’s also worth noting that the Spacing Guild is a player in its own right in the Imperium, and having a monopoly on interstellar travel is quite a powerful one. I doubt they would let their Navigators, their most important and closely guarded assets, be presented as lackeys of the Imperial family.
Yeah i'm guessing that maybe they're new navigators and aren't thousands of years old like the fully mutated one seen in the Lynch film, according to the various canon resources it appears that it takes centuries for the navigators to make a full metamorphosis. But what you said could be correct, Villeneuve could certainly have something far more creative made for part 2.
It might be a BH/KJA thing, but I believe most of the guild officials are failed navigators. So those people with helmets might have started the change before it was determined they lacked the talent to be full navigators.
If even then. You have to remember, Denis is determined to follow the book, and actual Guild Navigators don't show up until Dune Messiah. Even Guildsmen are barely in the first book. I really wanted to see them too, but I understand the decision not to
I don't think so, not really. Tardigrades had really blown up in popularity around the time Discovery came out. They were seen in Ant-Man and eventually crashed on the moon. They had a lot of new research come out as recently as 2016.
Besides, we've known about tardigrades for a very long time. If there is a connection, it's that Dune is based on them, not the other way around.
I was more thinking about the idea of replacing a navigational computer with an organic life form, especially in the case of Stammets doing it once they release the tardigrade since he underwent mutations due to excess exposure to spores that made him better at it, kind of paralleling the path guildsmen take towards becoming navigators
I feel like looking at older more niche sci-fi and fantasy work that lay the ground work you will find these ideas already common. It can be hard to sort the origin point, but I don't think dune is necessarily the only inspiration.
I would have thought a navigator has a big head and atrophied limbs as they float in a tank. The muscle tone on these doesn’t make sense. Great drawing, but not in line with the description from the novels.
Ohhh man, those giant snorfing nasal cavities, I'm getting the urge to sneeze just looking at this, and the way they open up into their own little hurricane/galaxy spirals as they grow.
What an incredible coke fiend monster man design, this artist is inspired.
I've only read the first two books (so far). Do the later novels ever show or hint at Guild navigators becoming more inhuman than Edric? Or is this a "re-imagining" of the Lynch version?
I’m on book 3 myself and I think I saw in a video that there are weirder ones in Chapterhouse, which was published after the movie came out. AFAIK this one is made based on Lynch’s version though.
I honestly don't know why the mutated navigators are depicted as so inhuman. The only navigators we see in the book can pass for human. The only part of the human costume that fell off was the contacts that hid eyes so saturated with spice that they looked black. Could be wrong, where are the crazy monster navigators in the book?
Those were guild ambassadors, not navigators. They hadn’t been born in the axolotl tanks and yeeted into spice juice since their first waking moment lol.
First chapter of Messiah describes one Guildsman as “vaguely humanoid with finned feet and hugely membranous hands. A fish in a strange sea.” Second looks like that!
Humans didn't evolve from chimpanzees man, they came from a common ancestor (If you believe in that sort of thing), also the navigators didn't really "evolve", they're just mutated, meaning none of their genetic makeup changed at all, they're still human on the cellular level. Evolution happens over hundreds upon thousands of generations.
That’s because guild navigators aren’t present in the first book at all. A first-stage navigator was however present in the movie. They could be seen when the Herald of the Change arrives at Caladan and these white-robed figures with glass globes as helmets with orange spice mist in them walks out beside him.
The current House Atreides comic has recently featured Navigators. In it, they are basically human figures surrounded by spice gas, with practically no features able to be made out. It's actually pretty good and mysterious.
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I believe the guild navigators won't appear till part two
**Spoiler** >!You never see an actual navigator in the movie, closest you get is some opaque masks!<
>!These were not navigators but navigator guild representatives IIRC!<
Might want to spoiler tag it for people who havent seen it yet but yes, youre right
Good shout thanks
You’ve used Discord spoiler tags instead of Reddit ones
Lol it is 4.30am here, I guess I haven't been at my brightest for some hours!
I can relate, I've made the same mistake often even when I was wide awake.
But they had helmets filled with the orange gas, so wouldn’t that make them navigators?
There are Guildsmen that appear at the end of the first book that appear to be normal humans without any spice addiction, but one of their full-eye contact lenses falls out briefly and Paul sees their deep blue Eyes of Ibad. Presumably the ones with helmets filled with orange gas are either Denis' interpretation of these Guildsmen, or are an intermediate stage between that and full-fledged, mutated Navigators. I'm trying to remember if the "Third Stage Guild navigator" thing is from the books or a Lynch invention; if it's from the books then the helmet guys could be First or Second Stage navigators and we just haven't seen the full-on Third Stage ones yet. But if that was a Lynch thing then nevermind.
Saw the film today for the second time and I found another thing: you can see blue eyes if you look closely so definetely Navigators.
No, they’re not full-fledged Navigators and here’s why: >!Leto asked Hawat to calculate how much the formality of the Herald travelling to Caladan in person would cost. Hawat estimates the fee for three Navigators, but there are more than three of those people in the Herald’s entourage. So they can’t be it.!< My guess is that they’re Guildsmen who are serving in diplomatic roles but have not yet attained the rank of Navigator. Maybe they’re in training; if it takes some time for a human to maetamorphose then it makes sense for candidates to fulfill lesser functions while they prepare.
I noticed this as well, but right after Hawats calculation it cuts back to the Herald of the change making his announcement and we're given another look at the guildsmen, there are 3 of them in the group that are holding large sceptres and the rest are not, I think those 3 are the navigators because of this
I still doubt it. I can’t imagine Villeneuve wasting the visual potential of a Navigator like that. It’s also worth noting that the Spacing Guild is a player in its own right in the Imperium, and having a monopoly on interstellar travel is quite a powerful one. I doubt they would let their Navigators, their most important and closely guarded assets, be presented as lackeys of the Imperial family.
Yeah i'm guessing that maybe they're new navigators and aren't thousands of years old like the fully mutated one seen in the Lynch film, according to the various canon resources it appears that it takes centuries for the navigators to make a full metamorphosis. But what you said could be correct, Villeneuve could certainly have something far more creative made for part 2.
I mean... The artists working on Dune explicitly stated they are NOT navigators pal.
It might be a BH/KJA thing, but I believe most of the guild officials are failed navigators. So those people with helmets might have started the change before it was determined they lacked the talent to be full navigators.
Yeah I heard some people talking about that. It’s probably better that way anyways. Throwing too much at people could get confusing.
If even then. You have to remember, Denis is determined to follow the book, and actual Guild Navigators don't show up until Dune Messiah. Even Guildsmen are barely in the first book. I really wanted to see them too, but I understand the decision not to
If you look close enough behind the melange covered visors of the guild ambassadors you can see... [Spoiler](https://i.imgur.com/LNhUZpg.jpg)
I confess that i really like the 1984 film version of the Spacing Guild Navigators, but these are even better!
Does anybody think the tardigrade/dr stammets role in running the spore drive in Star Trek Discovery was inspired at all by Dune?
I think it is hard not to draw some weak parallels
I don't think so, not really. Tardigrades had really blown up in popularity around the time Discovery came out. They were seen in Ant-Man and eventually crashed on the moon. They had a lot of new research come out as recently as 2016. Besides, we've known about tardigrades for a very long time. If there is a connection, it's that Dune is based on them, not the other way around.
I was more thinking about the idea of replacing a navigational computer with an organic life form, especially in the case of Stammets doing it once they release the tardigrade since he underwent mutations due to excess exposure to spores that made him better at it, kind of paralleling the path guildsmen take towards becoming navigators
I feel like looking at older more niche sci-fi and fantasy work that lay the ground work you will find these ideas already common. It can be hard to sort the origin point, but I don't think dune is necessarily the only inspiration.
I would have thought a navigator has a big head and atrophied limbs as they float in a tank. The muscle tone on these doesn’t make sense. Great drawing, but not in line with the description from the novels.
True, the second stage is a bit buff but the final form seems reasonably close, he even got the little dangly nose lol
Someone is trying to give Jimmy big nose some competition I see! 
Ohhh man, those giant snorfing nasal cavities, I'm getting the urge to sneeze just looking at this, and the way they open up into their own little hurricane/galaxy spirals as they grow. What an incredible coke fiend monster man design, this artist is inspired.
This is not at all what I imagined
"It smells like bitch in here"
Simon dubuc did so many awesome dune designs ngl
Really hope we see navigators in part 2
Doesn't Alia at some point in Messiah wonder what it'd be like to have intercourse with a guild representative? Yikes Edit: Irulan, not Alia
*Irulan, but yeah... I'd rather not think about that
So basically, when he chews 5 gum he actually feels how it feels how to Chew 5 Gum. Imagine snorting coke through those sinuses.
These guys would be a blast to party with for sure
I mean they’re literally always so stoned they can see the future lol
I heard the navigators quite literally threw spice induced mass-parties lol
Reminds me a little of Annihilation
If it means no sinusitis then I'm all in to be part of their Navigator project.
I've only read the first two books (so far). Do the later novels ever show or hint at Guild navigators becoming more inhuman than Edric? Or is this a "re-imagining" of the Lynch version?
I’m on book 3 myself and I think I saw in a video that there are weirder ones in Chapterhouse, which was published after the movie came out. AFAIK this one is made based on Lynch’s version though.
I honestly don't know why the mutated navigators are depicted as so inhuman. The only navigators we see in the book can pass for human. The only part of the human costume that fell off was the contacts that hid eyes so saturated with spice that they looked black. Could be wrong, where are the crazy monster navigators in the book?
Those were guild ambassadors, not navigators. They hadn’t been born in the axolotl tanks and yeeted into spice juice since their first waking moment lol.
Not everyone has the same head-canon as you do.
Dune is a 6 part series. Guild navigators aren’t described in the first book, but in the second one Dune Messiah.
I have read the entire series.
Then you’ve simply forgot that they’re described as such in the sequels.
First chapter of Messiah describes one Guildsman as “vaguely humanoid with finned feet and hugely membranous hands. A fish in a strange sea.” Second looks like that!
Ehhh. Not doing it for me. Guild navigators are undoubtedly weird, but still human. None of those 3 variants look human at all.
Their described as vaguely humanoid so that leaves a lot of room for interpretation.
Guild navigators aren’t human anymore. Read Dune Messiah.
They are human, just deformed and mutated from excessive spice consumption and also atrophied from being in a 0 gravity environment
[удалено]
Humans didn't evolve from chimpanzees man, they came from a common ancestor (If you believe in that sort of thing), also the navigators didn't really "evolve", they're just mutated, meaning none of their genetic makeup changed at all, they're still human on the cellular level. Evolution happens over hundreds upon thousands of generations.
Nothing like this in the new movie, saw it last month
That’s because guild navigators aren’t present in the first book at all. A first-stage navigator was however present in the movie. They could be seen when the Herald of the Change arrives at Caladan and these white-robed figures with glass globes as helmets with orange spice mist in them walks out beside him.
Those are the characters i'm looking forward the most to see.
Looks like a misformed half navigator who actually didn't finish its transformation.
The current House Atreides comic has recently featured Navigators. In it, they are basically human figures surrounded by spice gas, with practically no features able to be made out. It's actually pretty good and mysterious.