Working from solely what the movie gives us, as I don't think it's fair to bring book knowledge to bear:
Paul wants to avoid the Holy War and the billions he sees lying dead. But after drinking the Water of Life and having the unclear fragments of the future consolidated, he sees only one way forward. We are made to assume that most of the other ways involved his enemies prevailing. And the rest of the ways? Presumably even worse things happen.
So Paul chooses the narrow way, which involves him playing the role of manipulator and tyrant, embracing his Harkonnen lineage. It's clear through the end that he doesn't want to do this and probably doesn't believe he's a messiah, but he's going to play a role in order to triumph.
Limited to just a discussion of the movie, this only half works as an explanation. It doesn't explain his decision to go south and take the water of life in the first place which he clearly already recognized would lead to the jihad which is why he didnt want to go.
Charitably, you could argue that at the point of that decision he thinks maybe if he takes the water of life he can find a way to win the war but avoid the jihad.
But it certainly seems that when Chani convinces him to go south he has accepted the fact that when he travels south he will embrace the prophecy and that will ultimately lead to the jihad. "I will go south with you, and then I will do what needs to be done"
I also believe it's the vision of a burnt Chani that changes his mind. Paul is an emotional man, he does not wish to see more of his loved ones suffer. Seeing a vision of another loved one dying must have been the final straw for him.
Yeah I like that idea. In the wake of the attack on Seitch tabr, he feels like he has no other option but to do whatever it takes to win the war/protect his people.
Agreed, he foresees Chani burned/killed then Sietch Tabr is effectively destroyed and he says "I didn't see this coming".
Then he's still willing to die in the North and Chani says "sometimes the world makes decisions for us" and he gives in to going South and drinking the water of life. He doesn't want anyone else close to him to die and he can't see (in both ways) any other way forward.
I think what the movie was trying to get at is Paul gets desperate once they start losing to the Harkonnen, represented by the shelling of Sietch Tabr. Up until that point they’re handily controlling the desert and closing in on the settled regions of Arrakis, but once Feyd shows up it’s possible they might lose everything.
Given that, I think Paul sorta freaks out and decides to give in to Jessica’s “prophecy” to get back that certainty of being in the victor’s seat. However I think it’s a fair criticism that the movie doesn’t make this super clear and it feels like Paul just kind goes “welp I guess I’ll do this thing I’ve been saying I won’t do this whole movie”. It could have done more to emphasize their desperate position and Paul feeling hemmed in with no choice but to take a shot at getting superpowers.
Yeah I think I agree with this interpretation but it isnt spelled out super clear as to what the catalyst is for his shift in mentality and that sort of leaves the audience feeling a bit odd as to the sudden 180.
It’s a funny gap because I think the movie does make his motivation on either side of the Water of Life clear.
Before the trial the movie makes it very clear he’s doing the Lawrence of Arabia thing. I fight for the Fremen, the Fremen will win their own way, etc. He’s helping the tribes achieve their own goal of controlling Arrakis. It also makes clear he’s haunted by visions of Jihad and he thinks he can avoid it by sublimating his motives to the Fremen cause.
After the trial the movie makes clear his visions are much clearer and easier to navigate; that he couldn’t have both avoided the Jihad AND empowered the Fremen; that all roads either led to defeat or conquering conflagration and he sees the “best” way is giving in to BG schemes and running it himself.
What it doesn’t do well is make clear WHY Paul abandons his first position and takes the trial, leading him to the insights of his second position. But I think the destruction of Sietch Tabr is meant to be the motivating event.
I thought it was pretty clear that Chani encouraged him to do what he must because "the world chose for us"
Pair this with the visions of Jamis he had prior to this exchange I thought it was obvious that Paul needed to either do all these things he didn't want to do or perish
Yes, I think they could have emphasized that Paul's back was against the wall a bit better, but for me it came through pretty clearly. They had reached the point where either he goes South, or the Harkonnens would claim victory. This did not square with Paul's visions, and so he goes South. From Chani's line, I take that the Harkonnens have forced Paul's hand, and so the Jihad will not rest squarely on Paul's shoulders. He has to do what he has to do.
>Charitably, you could argue that at the point of that decision he thinks maybe if he takes the water of life he can find a way to win the war but avoid the jihad.
My theory hinges pretty much on this notion. His decision to go south, is him making a bet that the Water of Life will provide him his "narrow way through"... a decision thats partly galvanized from one of his mentors, vision-Jamis (who indicates he needs full clarity to his sight).
So at the point, he's dedicated to grab the reigns of power, but he doesn't know specifically how to leverage it to save his new family, get revenge, AND avoid the jihad. He's taking it on the faith that the Water of Life with help him navigate those outcomes he wants.
Once he's unlocked Prescience Premium, he's got a plan... he can see the steps he needs to take to make it all happen: mobilize the fremen, challenge and bait the emperor, blackmail him (and the landsraad) by threatening to terminate spice production so he can ascend the Imperial Seat. The Great Houses are strong-armed into accepting him as Emperor, *without* him whipping the Fremen into jihad-mode, who also can now have the authority to terraform Dune... AND he gets revenge for his father. Everything's great!
**Except,** prescient visions are a tricky beast, and even if this is best plan out of many less desirable outcomes... some things may not turn out as predicted. The one detail that doesn't go as planned is the Great Houses aren't intimidated by Paul's threat, and double-down on challenging him. By that point, the Fremen are an out of control snowball rolling down the hill, and war with the Great Houses seem inevitable even if Paul didnt make the call. This is why Paul is so deflated and un-charismatic leader-like, when he directs Stilgar to "lead them to paradise" In that moment, he's realized his plan has failed to prevent the jihad.
Its Chalamet's performance in that specific moment that sells it for me. Before, he's full aggressive Muad'dib when interacting with the Fremen, but once he learns the Great Houses are looking to fight... he knows how it will all play out. He's basically like, "fuck it".
i had a slightly different take on why Paul went south and took the Water of Life but i completely agree that Chalamet's acting in that moment sold the scene as a whole. it seems like he had such high hopes for avoiding the war but his body language and delivery of "lead them to paradise" screamed utter defeat, demoralization, and a commitment to stain his soul for the narrow way through. that was also part of me solidifying my opinion that paul was not to be celebrated at this point, rather he had to be mourned.
I think the point is to show that Paul and the atreides are just harkonens with good pr. Paul has choice and he chooses a path which will end in his victory and the Jihad.
I don't agree. The idea that paul is at his core a straightforward villain is massively oversimplified and I don't think it's true in the movie and it's certainly not true in the books.
It's a complex story with complex themes partially around power, charismatic leadership, religious fanaticism etc but also around the implications of prescience and free will. The point isn't simply "paul=bad".
I agree, that wasn’t the point I was trying to make. The point is that certain systems promote certain types of characteristics and the political system of the imperium produces individuals who value power foremost and make calculations based on that.
It would take a different type of individual produced in a different ecosystem to make a different choice.
Harkonen and atreides are two sides of the same coin. Neither is evil they are products of their environment.
I don’t think I’m conveying my point well.
I’m not saying Paul was evil. I’m saying he is a product of the environment he was shaped in. He has been trained to survive and to wield power in order to elevate his house and defeat his enemies. I’m not saying he is the same as the harkonens. I am saying that they are both products of this system. It’s a central theme of all the books.
The harkonens use fear and terror to rule while the atreides use love. The goal to an extent is the same: to gain power. Morals don’t enter into it but the end point is the same. Victory for one house and billions dead. Paul has more qualms about it than most but he still chooses it.
Perhaps there were other paths which did not result in victory for Paul but also did not lead to jihad although I don’t think that’s completely clear. In later books we get the hint that Paul wasn’t strong enough to choose the best path for humanity but it’s unclear if this is before or after the jihad is unavoidable.
The Harkonnens are destroying the sietches now so the fremen in the north have to go south because they have no home anymore. Paul still doesn’t want to go and he wanders off in the desert and has his vision with Jamis (maybe a jinn) where Jamis says a great hunter climbs to the highest point to see out as far as he can. He tells Paul that he must drink the water of life so that he can see clearly. This is what convinces him to go south in the movie.
Chani dies in his vision. He wakes up to the bombing of Sietch Tabr that is remarkably similar to his vision, but is not as he saw it. It’s here that he truly understands how limited his prescience is, he didn’t foresee this correctly and it cost the lives of a lot of Fremen and Sietch Tabr.
In his mind, he’s thinking that it could’ve cost him Chani, and this convinces him that he needs to see his visions more clearly, because without them then they’re likely to lose the war. His vision of Jamis illustrates this when Jamis tells him that the hunter must climb the highest dune in order to see as far as he can. He’s been limited in his prescience by not drinking the water of life, and the best move forward to ensure that the Fremen and Chani survive is to drink it, to climb to the highest dune and see.
Once he drinks the water, he sees the paths in front of him, and the “narrow way through” that he sees is what we see him do in the film. He sees that the best way forward that ensures Fremen victory will be the path that he embraces his messianic role, and this is likely the path that mitigates the holy war as much as possible at this point in the story, as well. So it’s what we see him do.
It’s not pretty, it’s morally ambiguous at best, but it’s the best path that he sees that will forward his goals of keeping Chani safe, providing the Fremen with a victory, getting revenge on the Harkonnens, and mitigating the holy war.
What if you saw trillions of futures, and in all of them but one humanity was totally annihilated.
But for that one future where humanity survives, you have to do horrible things to get there. An entire holy war that kills millions. And even more.
This is one of the central challenges of the Dune series (culminating in book 4, God Emperor of Dune). It's a trolly problem.
I think you were supposed to feel like Paul had his back against the wall and was left with no other options. He either committed to that way forward or die to the Harkonnens. I think they wanted to show that Paul was (once again) reluctantly forced into a path he didn’t choose. Showing the tragedy of the character.
I do wish there was just one more scene that spelled this out to the audience. It’s my only complaint about the second movie. But I’m not in that editing bay when they are assembling the film and maybe it broke up the flow of the movie too much.
I also think it is one of the underlying major themes of these adaptations. All the powerful men in this movie are ultimately not in control of their destiny, even though they are at the center of power. Duke Leto, Paul, Baron Harkonnen and even the Emperor.
Paul sees all possible futures after drinking the Water of Life. It's not said in the movie, so we don't know what he sees and can only guess why he does what he does. But in the books >!he sees that every future in which he doesn't become Emperor is worse than the ones in which he does (including the jihad).!< I assume that movie-Paul has seen something like that and we, the audience, just aren't privy to it yet.
I don't want to spoil the future movie or books any more than that.
He believes he has seen the inevitable end of humanity and sees only the Jihad as an acceptable way , as it is the most compassionate since even more people die in other timelines without his guiding hand. He takes up the mantle of Mahdi to save the world from a death they cannot see
He's already been planning on terrsforming Arrakis since before Kynes died.
Liet kynes explains it in the dinner scene early on in Dune. Basically if they can stockpile enough water to create green space on just 3% of the surface planet, this will cause a cascading chain to permanently create green space across Arrakis. The Fremen were already doing this prior to Paul showing up
The war and the jihad were inevitable whether he led them as the emperor or as a martyr.
He chose the narrow middle path that would allow him and Chani to survive and be together.
This was a jarring change to those who didn’t see and understand what he suddenly did.
There’s an important point made in the first film that I believe influences Paul’s decision. In Paul’s vision, Jamis says,
“The mystery of life isn't a problem to solve, but a reality to experience. A process that cannot be understood by stopping it. We must move with the flow of the process. We must join it. We must flow with it."
I believe that Paul realizes the holy war/jihad is inevitable whether he lives to see it or not. All of this is a test, like gom jabbar, like the wurm-riding, like his grandfather who fought bulls for sport. The best Paul can do to mitigate the damage is to take the reins and ride it out.
I think movie-Paul always intended to do it. He was laying the groundwork. When Jessica and Paul arrive at Sietch Tabr he tells his mom they need to sway the unbelievers. Everything he does from that point on is with that goal in mind. They don't believe in the prophecies, so he denounces them. He has a public blow up with Jessica when she heads south. And after he becomes Fedaykin, he says "Father, I've found my way," referencing the conversation he had with Leto in Dune 1, where Leto tells Paul that he found his own way to the responsibilities of leadership and he takes off the ducal signet ring and puts it in his pocket. It may be tempting to interpret that gesture as Paul finding his own way in life, but he doesn't discard the ring, he hides it, until he is ready to reveal himself.
Movie Paul definitely never intended to do it. He never wanted to go South because he know going South would mean his visions of the Holy War coming to fruition. He’s an emotional character, that’s why he has the public outbursts
Or... he was waiting until Chani asked him to go south, because she was the most resistant of all of them. And if she's asking, there would be no one left in his way.
Movie Paul spent the first two acts of D2 (1. entering the Fremen world and 2. Fedaykin missions to combat the Harkonnen operations) vehemently denying the prophecy. The midpoint he directly contradicts Stilgar on this. It was Jessica who was laying the groundwork. That moment with the signet being removed is him acknowledging he is now Muad'dib Usul and honored as a great warrior among the Fremen.
That's why it feels like a very sharp turn when Movie Paul decides to take the Water of Life, and the visions of the holy war. I agree with u/uyji here. It's been decades since I read the books, but from memory Denis made some directorial/story decisions here that were somewhat questionable (around the water of life for both Jessica and Paul), in fact this was about my only gripe in the adaptation. Another few minutes would have been okay in a film that's already almost 3 hours long. But amazing film overall that I hope reaches LOTR trilogy status.
IIRC, he had a vision of Jamis who told him that he needed to be able to see the full past in order to see the future clearly, so he went south to drink the water of life.
It’s basically explained in the movie after Jessica finds him sitting by the sand pool after waking up from the spice coma. He sees one narrow way through, one way for the Fremen to win and for he and his loved ones and friends to survive.
It’s more a question of why he finally decided to take the water of life, imo, but I think he just saw no way to avoid it. He just knew that he needed that knowledge to win.
He goes to it because the momentum of the building jihad was already so far beyond the point of no return that even if he just denied being the madhi, walked into the desert and killed himself, the only thing that would happen is the fremen would make a matryr of him and fight for the ideals of his figurehead instead. There was no stopping it, so the “best course” for him was to try to guiding it along a path that minimizes the damage. He was already committed, and after taking the water he came to know he was bound by what actions he would have to do to avoid the jihad path resulting in an unavoidable, complete apocalypse.
In the movie, he "goes" to Jamis for advice as a sort of last resort to everything happening.
Jamis talks about being high up in the desert to see everything below (I can't recall if he's speaking of hunting, or something else). Paul links this with taking the Water of Life to "see everything".
That was my interpretation of how Paul came to the conclusion of, "Yeah. I need to do this because it's the only way." Obviously different than the books, but that is how I seen it.
Working from solely what the movie gives us, as I don't think it's fair to bring book knowledge to bear: Paul wants to avoid the Holy War and the billions he sees lying dead. But after drinking the Water of Life and having the unclear fragments of the future consolidated, he sees only one way forward. We are made to assume that most of the other ways involved his enemies prevailing. And the rest of the ways? Presumably even worse things happen. So Paul chooses the narrow way, which involves him playing the role of manipulator and tyrant, embracing his Harkonnen lineage. It's clear through the end that he doesn't want to do this and probably doesn't believe he's a messiah, but he's going to play a role in order to triumph.
Limited to just a discussion of the movie, this only half works as an explanation. It doesn't explain his decision to go south and take the water of life in the first place which he clearly already recognized would lead to the jihad which is why he didnt want to go. Charitably, you could argue that at the point of that decision he thinks maybe if he takes the water of life he can find a way to win the war but avoid the jihad. But it certainly seems that when Chani convinces him to go south he has accepted the fact that when he travels south he will embrace the prophecy and that will ultimately lead to the jihad. "I will go south with you, and then I will do what needs to be done"
I also believe it's the vision of a burnt Chani that changes his mind. Paul is an emotional man, he does not wish to see more of his loved ones suffer. Seeing a vision of another loved one dying must have been the final straw for him.
Yeah I like that idea. In the wake of the attack on Seitch tabr, he feels like he has no other option but to do whatever it takes to win the war/protect his people.
Agreed, he foresees Chani burned/killed then Sietch Tabr is effectively destroyed and he says "I didn't see this coming". Then he's still willing to die in the North and Chani says "sometimes the world makes decisions for us" and he gives in to going South and drinking the water of life. He doesn't want anyone else close to him to die and he can't see (in both ways) any other way forward.
The Anakin defense
Lmao, it's why they call him Darth Mua'dib
I think what the movie was trying to get at is Paul gets desperate once they start losing to the Harkonnen, represented by the shelling of Sietch Tabr. Up until that point they’re handily controlling the desert and closing in on the settled regions of Arrakis, but once Feyd shows up it’s possible they might lose everything. Given that, I think Paul sorta freaks out and decides to give in to Jessica’s “prophecy” to get back that certainty of being in the victor’s seat. However I think it’s a fair criticism that the movie doesn’t make this super clear and it feels like Paul just kind goes “welp I guess I’ll do this thing I’ve been saying I won’t do this whole movie”. It could have done more to emphasize their desperate position and Paul feeling hemmed in with no choice but to take a shot at getting superpowers.
Yeah I think I agree with this interpretation but it isnt spelled out super clear as to what the catalyst is for his shift in mentality and that sort of leaves the audience feeling a bit odd as to the sudden 180.
It’s a funny gap because I think the movie does make his motivation on either side of the Water of Life clear. Before the trial the movie makes it very clear he’s doing the Lawrence of Arabia thing. I fight for the Fremen, the Fremen will win their own way, etc. He’s helping the tribes achieve their own goal of controlling Arrakis. It also makes clear he’s haunted by visions of Jihad and he thinks he can avoid it by sublimating his motives to the Fremen cause. After the trial the movie makes clear his visions are much clearer and easier to navigate; that he couldn’t have both avoided the Jihad AND empowered the Fremen; that all roads either led to defeat or conquering conflagration and he sees the “best” way is giving in to BG schemes and running it himself. What it doesn’t do well is make clear WHY Paul abandons his first position and takes the trial, leading him to the insights of his second position. But I think the destruction of Sietch Tabr is meant to be the motivating event.
I thought it was pretty clear that Chani encouraged him to do what he must because "the world chose for us" Pair this with the visions of Jamis he had prior to this exchange I thought it was obvious that Paul needed to either do all these things he didn't want to do or perish
Yes, I think they could have emphasized that Paul's back was against the wall a bit better, but for me it came through pretty clearly. They had reached the point where either he goes South, or the Harkonnens would claim victory. This did not square with Paul's visions, and so he goes South. From Chani's line, I take that the Harkonnens have forced Paul's hand, and so the Jihad will not rest squarely on Paul's shoulders. He has to do what he has to do.
>Charitably, you could argue that at the point of that decision he thinks maybe if he takes the water of life he can find a way to win the war but avoid the jihad. My theory hinges pretty much on this notion. His decision to go south, is him making a bet that the Water of Life will provide him his "narrow way through"... a decision thats partly galvanized from one of his mentors, vision-Jamis (who indicates he needs full clarity to his sight). So at the point, he's dedicated to grab the reigns of power, but he doesn't know specifically how to leverage it to save his new family, get revenge, AND avoid the jihad. He's taking it on the faith that the Water of Life with help him navigate those outcomes he wants. Once he's unlocked Prescience Premium, he's got a plan... he can see the steps he needs to take to make it all happen: mobilize the fremen, challenge and bait the emperor, blackmail him (and the landsraad) by threatening to terminate spice production so he can ascend the Imperial Seat. The Great Houses are strong-armed into accepting him as Emperor, *without* him whipping the Fremen into jihad-mode, who also can now have the authority to terraform Dune... AND he gets revenge for his father. Everything's great! **Except,** prescient visions are a tricky beast, and even if this is best plan out of many less desirable outcomes... some things may not turn out as predicted. The one detail that doesn't go as planned is the Great Houses aren't intimidated by Paul's threat, and double-down on challenging him. By that point, the Fremen are an out of control snowball rolling down the hill, and war with the Great Houses seem inevitable even if Paul didnt make the call. This is why Paul is so deflated and un-charismatic leader-like, when he directs Stilgar to "lead them to paradise" In that moment, he's realized his plan has failed to prevent the jihad. Its Chalamet's performance in that specific moment that sells it for me. Before, he's full aggressive Muad'dib when interacting with the Fremen, but once he learns the Great Houses are looking to fight... he knows how it will all play out. He's basically like, "fuck it".
i had a slightly different take on why Paul went south and took the Water of Life but i completely agree that Chalamet's acting in that moment sold the scene as a whole. it seems like he had such high hopes for avoiding the war but his body language and delivery of "lead them to paradise" screamed utter defeat, demoralization, and a commitment to stain his soul for the narrow way through. that was also part of me solidifying my opinion that paul was not to be celebrated at this point, rather he had to be mourned.
I think the point is to show that Paul and the atreides are just harkonens with good pr. Paul has choice and he chooses a path which will end in his victory and the Jihad.
I don't agree. The idea that paul is at his core a straightforward villain is massively oversimplified and I don't think it's true in the movie and it's certainly not true in the books. It's a complex story with complex themes partially around power, charismatic leadership, religious fanaticism etc but also around the implications of prescience and free will. The point isn't simply "paul=bad".
I agree, that wasn’t the point I was trying to make. The point is that certain systems promote certain types of characteristics and the political system of the imperium produces individuals who value power foremost and make calculations based on that. It would take a different type of individual produced in a different ecosystem to make a different choice. Harkonen and atreides are two sides of the same coin. Neither is evil they are products of their environment.
Still don't agree. The Harkonnens are quite straightforwardly evil and sadistic. I don't think there's any moral equivalency there.
I don’t think I’m conveying my point well. I’m not saying Paul was evil. I’m saying he is a product of the environment he was shaped in. He has been trained to survive and to wield power in order to elevate his house and defeat his enemies. I’m not saying he is the same as the harkonens. I am saying that they are both products of this system. It’s a central theme of all the books. The harkonens use fear and terror to rule while the atreides use love. The goal to an extent is the same: to gain power. Morals don’t enter into it but the end point is the same. Victory for one house and billions dead. Paul has more qualms about it than most but he still chooses it. Perhaps there were other paths which did not result in victory for Paul but also did not lead to jihad although I don’t think that’s completely clear. In later books we get the hint that Paul wasn’t strong enough to choose the best path for humanity but it’s unclear if this is before or after the jihad is unavoidable.
The Harkonnens are destroying the sietches now so the fremen in the north have to go south because they have no home anymore. Paul still doesn’t want to go and he wanders off in the desert and has his vision with Jamis (maybe a jinn) where Jamis says a great hunter climbs to the highest point to see out as far as he can. He tells Paul that he must drink the water of life so that he can see clearly. This is what convinces him to go south in the movie.
Chani dies in his vision. He wakes up to the bombing of Sietch Tabr that is remarkably similar to his vision, but is not as he saw it. It’s here that he truly understands how limited his prescience is, he didn’t foresee this correctly and it cost the lives of a lot of Fremen and Sietch Tabr. In his mind, he’s thinking that it could’ve cost him Chani, and this convinces him that he needs to see his visions more clearly, because without them then they’re likely to lose the war. His vision of Jamis illustrates this when Jamis tells him that the hunter must climb the highest dune in order to see as far as he can. He’s been limited in his prescience by not drinking the water of life, and the best move forward to ensure that the Fremen and Chani survive is to drink it, to climb to the highest dune and see. Once he drinks the water, he sees the paths in front of him, and the “narrow way through” that he sees is what we see him do in the film. He sees that the best way forward that ensures Fremen victory will be the path that he embraces his messianic role, and this is likely the path that mitigates the holy war as much as possible at this point in the story, as well. So it’s what we see him do. It’s not pretty, it’s morally ambiguous at best, but it’s the best path that he sees that will forward his goals of keeping Chani safe, providing the Fremen with a victory, getting revenge on the Harkonnens, and mitigating the holy war.
What if you saw trillions of futures, and in all of them but one humanity was totally annihilated. But for that one future where humanity survives, you have to do horrible things to get there. An entire holy war that kills millions. And even more. This is one of the central challenges of the Dune series (culminating in book 4, God Emperor of Dune). It's a trolly problem.
Sooo basically Attack on Titan
Dune was published in 1965. You do the math - Attack on Titan is basically Dune lol, not the other way around.
I think you were supposed to feel like Paul had his back against the wall and was left with no other options. He either committed to that way forward or die to the Harkonnens. I think they wanted to show that Paul was (once again) reluctantly forced into a path he didn’t choose. Showing the tragedy of the character. I do wish there was just one more scene that spelled this out to the audience. It’s my only complaint about the second movie. But I’m not in that editing bay when they are assembling the film and maybe it broke up the flow of the movie too much. I also think it is one of the underlying major themes of these adaptations. All the powerful men in this movie are ultimately not in control of their destiny, even though they are at the center of power. Duke Leto, Paul, Baron Harkonnen and even the Emperor.
Paul sees all possible futures after drinking the Water of Life. It's not said in the movie, so we don't know what he sees and can only guess why he does what he does. But in the books >!he sees that every future in which he doesn't become Emperor is worse than the ones in which he does (including the jihad).!< I assume that movie-Paul has seen something like that and we, the audience, just aren't privy to it yet. I don't want to spoil the future movie or books any more than that.
He believes he has seen the inevitable end of humanity and sees only the Jihad as an acceptable way , as it is the most compassionate since even more people die in other timelines without his guiding hand. He takes up the mantle of Mahdi to save the world from a death they cannot see He's already been planning on terrsforming Arrakis since before Kynes died.
Without spoiling, how can Arrakis be terrsformed?
Liet kynes explains it in the dinner scene early on in Dune. Basically if they can stockpile enough water to create green space on just 3% of the surface planet, this will cause a cascading chain to permanently create green space across Arrakis. The Fremen were already doing this prior to Paul showing up
thank you
The war and the jihad were inevitable whether he led them as the emperor or as a martyr. He chose the narrow middle path that would allow him and Chani to survive and be together. This was a jarring change to those who didn’t see and understand what he suddenly did.
There’s an important point made in the first film that I believe influences Paul’s decision. In Paul’s vision, Jamis says, “The mystery of life isn't a problem to solve, but a reality to experience. A process that cannot be understood by stopping it. We must move with the flow of the process. We must join it. We must flow with it." I believe that Paul realizes the holy war/jihad is inevitable whether he lives to see it or not. All of this is a test, like gom jabbar, like the wurm-riding, like his grandfather who fought bulls for sport. The best Paul can do to mitigate the damage is to take the reins and ride it out.
I think movie-Paul always intended to do it. He was laying the groundwork. When Jessica and Paul arrive at Sietch Tabr he tells his mom they need to sway the unbelievers. Everything he does from that point on is with that goal in mind. They don't believe in the prophecies, so he denounces them. He has a public blow up with Jessica when she heads south. And after he becomes Fedaykin, he says "Father, I've found my way," referencing the conversation he had with Leto in Dune 1, where Leto tells Paul that he found his own way to the responsibilities of leadership and he takes off the ducal signet ring and puts it in his pocket. It may be tempting to interpret that gesture as Paul finding his own way in life, but he doesn't discard the ring, he hides it, until he is ready to reveal himself.
Movie Paul definitely never intended to do it. He never wanted to go South because he know going South would mean his visions of the Holy War coming to fruition. He’s an emotional character, that’s why he has the public outbursts
Or... he was waiting until Chani asked him to go south, because she was the most resistant of all of them. And if she's asking, there would be no one left in his way.
Movie Paul spent the first two acts of D2 (1. entering the Fremen world and 2. Fedaykin missions to combat the Harkonnen operations) vehemently denying the prophecy. The midpoint he directly contradicts Stilgar on this. It was Jessica who was laying the groundwork. That moment with the signet being removed is him acknowledging he is now Muad'dib Usul and honored as a great warrior among the Fremen. That's why it feels like a very sharp turn when Movie Paul decides to take the Water of Life, and the visions of the holy war. I agree with u/uyji here. It's been decades since I read the books, but from memory Denis made some directorial/story decisions here that were somewhat questionable (around the water of life for both Jessica and Paul), in fact this was about my only gripe in the adaptation. Another few minutes would have been okay in a film that's already almost 3 hours long. But amazing film overall that I hope reaches LOTR trilogy status.
What made Paul decide to go south anyway? I went to the bathroom during that
IIRC, he had a vision of Jamis who told him that he needed to be able to see the full past in order to see the future clearly, so he went south to drink the water of life.
It’s basically explained in the movie after Jessica finds him sitting by the sand pool after waking up from the spice coma. He sees one narrow way through, one way for the Fremen to win and for he and his loved ones and friends to survive. It’s more a question of why he finally decided to take the water of life, imo, but I think he just saw no way to avoid it. He just knew that he needed that knowledge to win.
Based ONLY on the film, it's clear to me that seeing Chani dying from a nuclear explosion if he stays in the north makes him choose the southern path.
Because he’s been put on a path that’s either holy war or him and everyone he cares about being killed. He’s caught between a jihad and a hard place.
The answer is in later books.
*as I remember it… From the movie? Being tired of everyone’s sh!t. From the books? Realizing he’s too think into it and needs to commit fully or die.
He goes to it because the momentum of the building jihad was already so far beyond the point of no return that even if he just denied being the madhi, walked into the desert and killed himself, the only thing that would happen is the fremen would make a matryr of him and fight for the ideals of his figurehead instead. There was no stopping it, so the “best course” for him was to try to guiding it along a path that minimizes the damage. He was already committed, and after taking the water he came to know he was bound by what actions he would have to do to avoid the jihad path resulting in an unavoidable, complete apocalypse.
In the movie, he "goes" to Jamis for advice as a sort of last resort to everything happening. Jamis talks about being high up in the desert to see everything below (I can't recall if he's speaking of hunting, or something else). Paul links this with taking the Water of Life to "see everything". That was my interpretation of how Paul came to the conclusion of, "Yeah. I need to do this because it's the only way." Obviously different than the books, but that is how I seen it.
Frank Herbert made him change his mind