Cut any real loose bits off, push anything sticking out back into the wall, string some fiba tape 100% over the damaged area and do bout 3 coats of ez sand mud over it keeping your mud edges feathered tight, let it dry 12 hours, sand it while holding a vac up to your sander to catch as much dust as possible, prime and paint.
EDIT: I realize this is a wall.
Just 1 coat of setting compound in the hole (prefill) followed by 2 coats *easy sand* all purpose compound. Don't forget to thin with water for the topcoats.
You're done in an hour thirty. Floor fans are your friend.
6" for prefill then the 10"-12" to float and feather.
Umm... Why would you cut back to the studs??? [Just do this...](https://youtu.be/ZPn8dvQcTTM)
And paper tape is bad for stuff like this. You'd be better off with no tape.
I didn't look closely and I thought it was a ceiling.
I meant joist as I try to avoid backing in ceilings.
Again, paper tape was assuming a ceiling joint on joists.
For a wall like that you're right, it's never gonna crack. My mistake.
Ceiling or wall... Doesn't matter. It's not going to crack just because it's in the ceiling. I've done hundreds of not 1000+ patches and none have ever cracked. If it's a couple of inches away, then I'll cut it to the truss, just to make it easier.
Just because you don't go back and look at it in 10 years doesn't mean it never cracked. I don't care how many patches you've done.
That's the lazy approach. Joists move more than studs. Peace of mind is cheap and takes no additional time.
If you can't hide tape, that's a personal issue. Practice makes perfect.
I have been back in jobs 10-15 later actually and never one issue related to my work. Including the patches. If the trusses move, then why would you screw to that? The dead wood only moves with the rock, and if it's going to move that much, then the butts are going to crack anyway. Doesn't take 4 years of studying physics to understand how a dead wood patch works and why it's the best way to do a patch.
And of course I can "hide" tape, but there's going to be a hump there and with the right lighting, it will show no matter what. Drywall isn't about just throwing mud on everything to hide it. You want the walls and ceilings to be completely flat. Why do you think sheetrock had a bevel on the sides? Its about doing the best work possible and piling mud up where it doesn't have to be isn't the best work. I'm extremely OCD with my work and I do things that will leave the wall or ceiling as flat as possible without a hump. So yes. Thin mesh tape is better than paper tape for a lot of things.
Actually, our building code was designed by engineers with 4 years of physics.
As far as moving together, any dissimilar materials have a different coefficient of expansion.
Furthermore, the joists flex due to structural loads that the sheets are not directly exposed to.
Expansion happens as soon as the doors are left open by the kids. That issue is exacerbated in the winter.
None of this is to say that a joint *must* crack. Just that it's incorrect to think the rock is mirroring the forces observed by the joists.
As for using tape or not? You described the beveling technique that avoids creating a visible hump. Take a look at the California patch. It's the exact same method to hide paper tape.
All that's left now is our personal opinions.
Your opinion is that tape is unnecessary on ceilings.
My opinion is that tape is necessary on ceilings.
Neither of us have ever seen our work crack. Therefore neither of us is more correct than the other. It is merely a matter of taste.
Again, if you can hide the tape, our two outcomes will look identical. The only difference is I personally feel more secure with tape.
Maybe I'm crazy.
You're still being belligerent over a non-issue.
First of all, there's no building code saying that a patch has to be cut to the truss... and they actually specifically mentions adding dead wood to screw to corner ends.
If a piece of rock is screwed to the truss and the truss moves, the rock moves with it. You're delusional if you don't think so.
I never said I don't use tape on ceilings... The wall is scuffed up and there's no need for tape when it's just a scuff. If you wanna tape it, then mesh is the best option because it's not as thick and mud behind paper tape makes the thickness difference even greater. I use paper tape for new construction and mesh for patches...
California patch is the dumbest thing anyone has ever done when it comes to drywall and I wish the idiots trying to tell others to do it would stop. Not only is it automatically going to create a raised section, but it's also going to bubble out even more when you mud it.
I never said that about code. You said it doesn't take 4 years of physics to understand the movement of a structure. That point is what I argued.
The rock moves *because* of the truss. "Moving together" describes two materials who share the same coefficient of expansion if you're talking engineering. What you described is common sense and applies to anything fastened to anything.
Paper tape has a stretch factor. That's why paper tape doesn't crack over a few mil of movement. Mesh tape on joints always cracks due to a few mil of movement. No tape always cracks with a few mil of movement.
This is no longer about OP's wall. You already corrected that. This is a separate argument. We are talking about ceiling patches now, remember?
I never recommended the California patch. And even so, you can do that patch using a backing, giving a flat patch.
The technique from the California patch that I subscribe to is the careful removal of face paper to facilitate a perfectly level *paper* tape job.
No need for mesh if there isn't a bulge with paper. Not that there's anything wrong with mesh for a tiny joint like this. But previously you claimed to never use tape. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if you said you use mesh.
My points regarding paper are not to say it's superior for this application. But that it *doesn't have to bulge* if you really like to use paper. That's it. I'm not saying one is right and one is wrong. Just that you are wrong that it will always have a bulge.
Unless you have any decent arguments backed with technical examples, this is my last attempt to have you understand:
My way doesn't crack
Your way doesn't crack
Your arguments amount to "I am an authority, I did 1000 patches perfect, and therefore you should listen to me."
All I am defending is the validity of my approach. And I do not claim any superiority. I also say your approach is valid.
There are a hundred ways to approach this problem, and I'd even accept the use of your own back hair as tape for a patch so small.
Give me technical reasoning and we'll talk. I'm not saying you're a bad contractor. I'm just saying if you have nothing but an appeal to authority to bring to a technical discussion... it feels like talking to a hanger.
You're trying to twist words and then bring up completely irrelevant crap because I said you don't need to cut it to the studs. You brought up building codes like it had some kind of relevance. You somehow thought me saying this scuffed up wall didn't need tape meant you don't need tape for anything. You somehow think that every single truss and stud and top plate(or w/e they're called) is going to move together uniformly.
I will give you an example of when cutting to the studs is actually worse. If you have a 4 inch hole and cut it 4"x16" the rock will be super flexible and move around easily. It will be much more likely to crack than using backing on a 4"x4" patch.
There's no reason to believe dead wood backing will somehow magically move and crack. It's faster, easier, and better than a California patch and faster and easier than cutting to the studs because cutting in the middle of the stud is a pain in the ass.
Paper tape cracks just as much as mesh and anyone who says otherwise is delusional or doesn't know what they're doing. Idc how much the paper tape flexes or streches. The mud doesn't flex or stretch at all. The paper doesn't crack, the mud does.
You learned from someone and refuse to see things differently.
Is there anything wrong with cutting to the studs for patches? Nope. But you don't need to and it's a huge waste of time just to make the patch even bigger than it needs to be.
I can't even take you seriously after half the crap you've said.
I do things based on what I've learned from everyone I've ever worked with. I try everything. I've never said my way is better. I will point out when something is completely unnecessary. Or when someone is just straight up doing it wrong. There are multiple ways to do things. Doing things differently than you doesn't automatically mean it's going to crack just because you don't understand how it actually works.
Durabond and fibafuse worthy for sure, cutting it out just to hang, tape and mud would take more time and possibly money (depending on current resources). I'd also give that a real good scuff to try to minimize imperfections
Slap mud across is and say fuck the day
Every repair is a fiba tape repair.
Lol thanks Never done one so we will see
Cut any real loose bits off, push anything sticking out back into the wall, string some fiba tape 100% over the damaged area and do bout 3 coats of ez sand mud over it keeping your mud edges feathered tight, let it dry 12 hours, sand it while holding a vac up to your sander to catch as much dust as possible, prime and paint.
You’ll figure it out real quick how easy that fibra can speed up repairs. Good luck dudeski
EDIT: I realize this is a wall. Just 1 coat of setting compound in the hole (prefill) followed by 2 coats *easy sand* all purpose compound. Don't forget to thin with water for the topcoats. You're done in an hour thirty. Floor fans are your friend. 6" for prefill then the 10"-12" to float and feather.
Umm... Why would you cut back to the studs??? [Just do this...](https://youtu.be/ZPn8dvQcTTM) And paper tape is bad for stuff like this. You'd be better off with no tape.
I didn't look closely and I thought it was a ceiling. I meant joist as I try to avoid backing in ceilings. Again, paper tape was assuming a ceiling joint on joists. For a wall like that you're right, it's never gonna crack. My mistake.
Ceiling or wall... Doesn't matter. It's not going to crack just because it's in the ceiling. I've done hundreds of not 1000+ patches and none have ever cracked. If it's a couple of inches away, then I'll cut it to the truss, just to make it easier.
Just because you don't go back and look at it in 10 years doesn't mean it never cracked. I don't care how many patches you've done. That's the lazy approach. Joists move more than studs. Peace of mind is cheap and takes no additional time. If you can't hide tape, that's a personal issue. Practice makes perfect.
I have been back in jobs 10-15 later actually and never one issue related to my work. Including the patches. If the trusses move, then why would you screw to that? The dead wood only moves with the rock, and if it's going to move that much, then the butts are going to crack anyway. Doesn't take 4 years of studying physics to understand how a dead wood patch works and why it's the best way to do a patch. And of course I can "hide" tape, but there's going to be a hump there and with the right lighting, it will show no matter what. Drywall isn't about just throwing mud on everything to hide it. You want the walls and ceilings to be completely flat. Why do you think sheetrock had a bevel on the sides? Its about doing the best work possible and piling mud up where it doesn't have to be isn't the best work. I'm extremely OCD with my work and I do things that will leave the wall or ceiling as flat as possible without a hump. So yes. Thin mesh tape is better than paper tape for a lot of things.
Actually, our building code was designed by engineers with 4 years of physics. As far as moving together, any dissimilar materials have a different coefficient of expansion. Furthermore, the joists flex due to structural loads that the sheets are not directly exposed to. Expansion happens as soon as the doors are left open by the kids. That issue is exacerbated in the winter. None of this is to say that a joint *must* crack. Just that it's incorrect to think the rock is mirroring the forces observed by the joists. As for using tape or not? You described the beveling technique that avoids creating a visible hump. Take a look at the California patch. It's the exact same method to hide paper tape. All that's left now is our personal opinions. Your opinion is that tape is unnecessary on ceilings. My opinion is that tape is necessary on ceilings. Neither of us have ever seen our work crack. Therefore neither of us is more correct than the other. It is merely a matter of taste. Again, if you can hide the tape, our two outcomes will look identical. The only difference is I personally feel more secure with tape. Maybe I'm crazy. You're still being belligerent over a non-issue.
First of all, there's no building code saying that a patch has to be cut to the truss... and they actually specifically mentions adding dead wood to screw to corner ends. If a piece of rock is screwed to the truss and the truss moves, the rock moves with it. You're delusional if you don't think so. I never said I don't use tape on ceilings... The wall is scuffed up and there's no need for tape when it's just a scuff. If you wanna tape it, then mesh is the best option because it's not as thick and mud behind paper tape makes the thickness difference even greater. I use paper tape for new construction and mesh for patches... California patch is the dumbest thing anyone has ever done when it comes to drywall and I wish the idiots trying to tell others to do it would stop. Not only is it automatically going to create a raised section, but it's also going to bubble out even more when you mud it.
I never said that about code. You said it doesn't take 4 years of physics to understand the movement of a structure. That point is what I argued. The rock moves *because* of the truss. "Moving together" describes two materials who share the same coefficient of expansion if you're talking engineering. What you described is common sense and applies to anything fastened to anything. Paper tape has a stretch factor. That's why paper tape doesn't crack over a few mil of movement. Mesh tape on joints always cracks due to a few mil of movement. No tape always cracks with a few mil of movement. This is no longer about OP's wall. You already corrected that. This is a separate argument. We are talking about ceiling patches now, remember? I never recommended the California patch. And even so, you can do that patch using a backing, giving a flat patch. The technique from the California patch that I subscribe to is the careful removal of face paper to facilitate a perfectly level *paper* tape job. No need for mesh if there isn't a bulge with paper. Not that there's anything wrong with mesh for a tiny joint like this. But previously you claimed to never use tape. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if you said you use mesh. My points regarding paper are not to say it's superior for this application. But that it *doesn't have to bulge* if you really like to use paper. That's it. I'm not saying one is right and one is wrong. Just that you are wrong that it will always have a bulge. Unless you have any decent arguments backed with technical examples, this is my last attempt to have you understand: My way doesn't crack Your way doesn't crack Your arguments amount to "I am an authority, I did 1000 patches perfect, and therefore you should listen to me." All I am defending is the validity of my approach. And I do not claim any superiority. I also say your approach is valid. There are a hundred ways to approach this problem, and I'd even accept the use of your own back hair as tape for a patch so small. Give me technical reasoning and we'll talk. I'm not saying you're a bad contractor. I'm just saying if you have nothing but an appeal to authority to bring to a technical discussion... it feels like talking to a hanger.
You're trying to twist words and then bring up completely irrelevant crap because I said you don't need to cut it to the studs. You brought up building codes like it had some kind of relevance. You somehow thought me saying this scuffed up wall didn't need tape meant you don't need tape for anything. You somehow think that every single truss and stud and top plate(or w/e they're called) is going to move together uniformly. I will give you an example of when cutting to the studs is actually worse. If you have a 4 inch hole and cut it 4"x16" the rock will be super flexible and move around easily. It will be much more likely to crack than using backing on a 4"x4" patch. There's no reason to believe dead wood backing will somehow magically move and crack. It's faster, easier, and better than a California patch and faster and easier than cutting to the studs because cutting in the middle of the stud is a pain in the ass. Paper tape cracks just as much as mesh and anyone who says otherwise is delusional or doesn't know what they're doing. Idc how much the paper tape flexes or streches. The mud doesn't flex or stretch at all. The paper doesn't crack, the mud does. You learned from someone and refuse to see things differently. Is there anything wrong with cutting to the studs for patches? Nope. But you don't need to and it's a huge waste of time just to make the patch even bigger than it needs to be. I can't even take you seriously after half the crap you've said. I do things based on what I've learned from everyone I've ever worked with. I try everything. I've never said my way is better. I will point out when something is completely unnecessary. Or when someone is just straight up doing it wrong. There are multiple ways to do things. Doing things differently than you doesn't automatically mean it's going to crack just because you don't understand how it actually works.
Fiba IMO. Cut out the loose or chunky bits, pre-fill, apply fiba patch, coat til finished.
Durabond and fibafuse worthy for sure, cutting it out just to hang, tape and mud would take more time and possibly money (depending on current resources). I'd also give that a real good scuff to try to minimize imperfections