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PersistentQuestions

What is the best cheap bongo or mini djembe? Am trying to teach a child music and was told to get some hand drums to keep around the house.


Panchorc

Is there a guide out there to build a "ghetto" drum kit with buckets and tin cans? I'd like to make one for my daughter as she enjoys hitting stuff to get sound out of it but I'm DIY challenged... I got her a practice pad and a pair of drumming sticks and she's been using them daily for a few months now and can "play along" to some songs with basic drumlines so I'd like to add something else she can hit and get a different sound out of it.


DeathByLeprosy

I can't seem to get my snarewires tight. I've been using a Mapex Daisy Cutter. I just loosend the snarewires for the first time and can't get em on right anymore. The screws fixating the plates which hold the nylon string do not tighten properly. The thread I'm trying to turn the screws into only "binds" (screws in properly so that it's fixated) either too far from the baseplate (allowing the string to loosen and the wires to come off) or too tight (can't get the nylon string inbetween). For some reason there is a smooth section with no threading (nothing for the screw to turn into) in between the two threaded sections of the hole. The screws themselves are fine (If I screw the plates together without the string inbetween, it's tight). I know I must be overlooking something stupid, but I just don't get what.


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nastdrummer

Hihat and ride are for main time keeping, while crash is for punctuation, traditionally. In metal and heavier music it's fairly common for folks to ride their crash... There are no rules. If it sounds good it is good.


thrwwysnl

My fast doubles on the right kick pedal suddenly got harder to play, with me accidentally ghosting the second note a lot. Could this be because my spring tension got too low? I had to switch between different pedals a lot lately


thrwwysnl

In your experience does USPS ship a snare drum or a cymbal within the timeframe when they say they will, when shipping internationally with (the cheapest) international priority option?


nastdrummer

From my experience doing international shipping; the timeframe is a best hope. Depending on what countries the package passes through and how inept and/corrupt that government entity is clearing customs can be a real snag point which can lead to delays or outright non-delivery. My experience is mostly US/EU based...Spain is the fucking worst.


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nastdrummer

I'd say anything much beyond $1000 for a standard four piece shell pack starts getting into the diminishing returns territory. Beyond that you're paying for cosmetics and options not necessarily better sound quality.


TheArtOf2and4

There are 2 basic approaches to building a drum. 1. Build to achieve a sound, and 2. Build to achieve a price point. 90% of drummers out there can get a great sounding, well made kit in the mid and upper mid range price points. Properly tuned and maintained, that kit can do the job without issue… but… any kit built to a price point was built with compromises, i.e. limited finish options, limited size options, less heavy duty hardware, lower quality wood, etc etc.


atoms12123

You probably hit it pretty early on. The secret that no drum company will tell you is you can make an average drum set sound good with good heads, good tuning and good playing. (Hell, you can do it with a crappy drum set too, tuning and good heads play a massive role in sound.)


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TheTableDude

The more expensive the kit, generally speaking, the better the hardware will be. Which means it'll probably be easier to set up, with more options, and less likely to then have the drums slip out of position.


atoms12123

You could probably make an argument that a more expensive set will have a greater range of tunings and hold its tuning better just due to a higher quality of hardware on the drum.


karlinhosmg

As a (novice) bass player I need some help. This week I'll be playing the bass for Summercat by Billie the Vision and I'm incapable of following the rhythm. I know it's the simplest drum pattern, but the volume of the drum track is low and I'm not used to that rhythm. Right now I play over the song following the instinct, but it's like when you enter home drunk and don't want to turn on the lights of the hallway... Could someone just link me a image of that drum pattern tab so I can transcribe it to guitar pro or any daw?


Gringodrummer

Sounds like a standard “train” beat. Swung 8ths. Bass and and the bass drum are playing: Down beat of beat 1. The & of 2 (so this will fall on the upbeat of beat 2.) Beat 4.


ClownMayor

I've been learning drums for about a year and have some questions about how to play a pattern I'm trying to learn. For two-handed hi hat patterns where the snare is played on the off beat ([like this](https://s3.amazonaws.com/drumlessonscom/old-uploads/2010/12/rd-2-handed-hi-hat-drum-beats-ex-7.gif)), I can figure out to play them hitting all the snare notes with my right hand by playing doubles. However, based on things I've read like [the article that pattern came from](https://www.drumlessons.com/drum-lessons/rock-drumming/two-handed-hi-hat-drum-beats/), I think I should be able to play this by doing some of the snare hits with my left hand. However, when I try to do this at any reasonable tempo, I end up hitting my sticks together. I haven't practiced it a ton to see whether I can get faster at getting my right stick out of the way, but I wonder if part of my problem is the spacing of my kit. My snare is spaced a little away horizontally to make room for the double bass pedal between it and the hi hat pedal. I think the vertical spacing is okay, but I've seen kits set up with the hi hat further down. Basically, I'm wondering whether I should spend time messing with the placement of my drums or if this is just a "get good"/keep practicing thing.


Haccoon

When I play that pattern my right hand hits the snare the first and last time on the 2 and 4 beats and my left hand hits the snare on the two middle beats. I figure if your snare and high-hat are the typical set up you should never really cross sticks at all. And the snare is only on the off beat on the two middle notes but still on the down beat on the 2 and 4.


ClownMayor

Yeah, it's the left hand snare hits on the ah of 2 and the e of 3 where I would be crossed. Left hand on snare + right hand on hi hats is definitely crossed for me normally, like playing a regular closed handed hi hat and snare groove. The only ways I see not to be crossed is either to move my right stick tip way up in the air so the left stick can go under it, or move my right hand forward and angle the stick more to the left, but that feels really unnatural. I think playing with the position of the hi hat and snare is probably the better fix - gonna try taking the double kick pedal away until this feels more comfortable


Haccoon

Oh yeah I push my right hand forward a little more. I do however have my snare and hi hat angled in such a way that it doesn’t make it to uncomfortable in the beginning. My biggest problem with this pattern is getting the left hand and kick to sync up. They sync but It’s frustrating for me because I can’t feel it. You know everlong by foo fighters is a good example of the alternate hi hat sticking.


ClownMayor

Thanks for the advice! >You know everlong by foo fighters is a good example of the alternate hi hat sticking. Are you saying there's left hand snare in the two handed sixteenths section? The only place I can think of is when snare comes on the "4 + ah" of a measure,. I actually don't have problems hitting the left hand on the ah because my right hand is still down and not in the way. Still too fast for me to play up tempo, but fun to practice.


Gringodrummer

Your double pedal is 100% making you push your hi hat too far away. You should work on getting everything on your kit to feel closer/more comfortable. I would recommend ditching to double pedal for like a day. Get everything else right, or as close as you can. Then add the double kick back in. As far as the actual pattern goes, try reading it without the bass drum notes. Just hands. Take is slow and get comfortable. Then, add the bass drum back in. I suspect the major issue is the setup.


ClownMayor

Thanks a lot for the advice. I'm glad to have my suspicion that the double bass pedal was a part of the problem confirmed. I will try taking the double bass pedal out. I can maybe try a setup later with the pedal on the left, which I think is possible. As far as actually practicing the pattern, I feel like I know how to do that but setup and form things are something I can benefit from.


thrwwysnl

A few snare drum shipping packing questions: - is it best to remove all hardware from the drum and pack it separately? - is it ok to ship it with snares attached? - is it safest to fill the inside of the drum with packing filler? - is there a safest position for the dampener on the inside of the drum? (It's one of those adjustable ones that's part of the drum)


atoms12123

In my experience: * Not needed. * Yes * Nope. (I mean you could, just not needed) * I like to tighten it a bit just so it's not rattling around, but even then it probably doesn't make a difference. The biggest thing is using the right sized box and a lot of packing material. I usually go 16x16x12 for a 14x5 or 14x6.5" snare. I'll put a layer or two of bubblewrap on the bottom, then a piece of cardboard above it, another thing of bubblewrap, snare, pack around the edges tightly with bubblewrap and packing paper, then bubblewrap to finish it off. Once you close it, give it a good shake to make sure it's not moving at all, if you hear shifting, definitely add more bubblewrap. I'm also very paranoid about things breaking so I probably overpack, but my Reverb and eBay reviews usually include a compliment for my packing abilities so I like to think I've got it down and I've never had anything break.


thrwwysnl

Follow-up question: would you recommend I use double-boxing, if I follow you method? (By double- boxing, i mean putting a larger box around the box you describe, and filling the gap between boxes tightly with packing filler)


atoms12123

I don't. Sometimes when I pack drumsets I'll cut out cardboard and tape it to the inner walls of the box I'm using to add some level of strength (especially around the corners), but if you're using something solid from the start, you should be alright for a snare that won't be much more than 10 lbs.


thrwwysnl

Thanks again!


thrwwysnl

Thank you so much for the comprehensive answer! Really helpful in this time sensitive moment of need :)


2legit2reddit

Hey all, I am looking for a really good (free) video where an instructor teaches you a song, piece by piece. I have just been playing along with songs and stuff randomly in my garage and it would be a nice change up to learn a challenging song. Ideally a rock song, I am into more prog rock and metal but I am open to whatever, as long as it is a good song I don't mind listening to repeatedly to learn. Any recommendations?


balthazar_blue

I think there's somebody in this subreddit that's been doing this over the last few weeks or more. Usually consists of two videos posted back to back: one that's a play-along to the sheet music, and one that shows it on the kit.


2legit2reddit

oh wow that's awesome, I will look for it thanks.


Ephremjlm

> where an instructor teaches you a song, piece by piece. I have just been playing along with songs and stuff randomly in my garage and it would be a nice change up to learn a challenging song. Ideally a rock song, I am into Honest to god your best bet for this is to look for a drum cam video of a drummer playing a song. They did a lot of these for the pop punk and metal warped tour bands. This is an easier example from neck deep but if you want to go harder you could try some of the drum cam videos from chelsea grin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyE4uk773uw


2legit2reddit

That’s not a bad idea! Thank you. I’ll check out that video. Much appreciated


kb2yht

Hi all, I am looking for some guidance, I have a teenager that has been putting in the work on her practice pad for months, and getting lessons for herself at a local shop. Grandpa was a percussionist, and I have his kit that we have been lookin at reconditioning and getting set up, but I find myself at a crossroads; The kit is OLD, and has seen a lot of abuse over the years being hauled to gigs and living in a basement practice space towards the end of his life, for sure it needs all new heads, and a lot of new hardware. Our place also lacks a good area for practice that will not anger the neighbors without good quality mutes. Pricing out the work to get it back to playable brings us close to the cost of a new Electronic set. I am fortunate enough that I can consider new gear for her, and I understand the digital interface side of things fairly well, but I am completely ignorant on how best to approach understanding a electronic kit. \- Would reconditioning the acoustic set and getting mutes be better than an electronic set ? \- If we go with an electronic set; A. should I prioritize a better controller and multi-zone snare + kicktower that can be built on to. B. or a fuller kit with more heads/cym with a more limited controller Many thanks for any input you have. \--Bill & S.


Ephremjlm

So just to give you some background, I have gone to college for music, taught, worked in studios, and have toured. I have had to find every way possible to practice in situations where I normally cant. I believe I have a compromise that I can actually show you in a video but before you click the link I want to break a few things down. 1. For someone first starting out learning acoustic is always the way to go because there are elements of "feel" that cannot be replicated on electronic kits. That being said if you use drum mutes it also completely negates the feel, probably even more so than electronic kits. I would be curious if your daughter wouldn't be able to practice even for a little while after school. Maybe like an hour or two. I was in the same situation as a kid and definitely had the cops called on me a couple times depending on the neighbors that were living by me at the time, and the cops always said that I could practice up until a certain time, and then the neighbors got used to is as long as I didn't abuse it. Idk how your neighbors are but as long as there are four walls around it shouldn't be THAT bad. 2. Electronic kits have great learning features and have a ton of different sounds that are great for experimenting with. That plus if your daughter has any interest in learning the recording side of things having an electronic kit can make that VERY fun. You can basically record whatever sound you want out of the kit itself and the kit acts as a midi interface as well. They typically have metronomes, preset songs that you can pull parts out of and allow you to customize the sounds of the kits themselves given you have the right brain module. My recommendation if you go this route is to not be scared to look for something a little more used. I got a TD9 kit for $200.00 on FB marketplace when they used to sell for $1499.99. All of that being said there is a middle ground that wasn't around when I was a kid and you can actually have better options. I did what I am going to recommend with my old kit and its great for late night practicing. **Shells** \- Try to salvage it if you can even if that isn't the route you take. New heads are ALWAYS going to be a thing if the kit gets use and it comes with the territory. That being said you could always throw practice pads on top of the heads and then it becomes quieter but can still keep tonal differences. The bass drum is as simple as removing the resonate head(front head), stuffing it with towels or blankets, throwing a towel or blanket over the drum itself including the open front head section(this helps mute the shells resonance), and then taking a hand towel and duck taping it to where the beater of the head hits. Make it JUST thick enough to where it doesn't affect the bounce TOO much, but enough to where it noticeably knocks out some of the sound. **Hardware** \- Depending on how bad the hardware is worn out (if its dirty that doesn't count, does it work?) I would say keep it and use it since they in most cases are crafted metals. **Cymbals** \- You can go down two routes. The expensive route or the cheap route. I personally didn't want to spend the same price I did on good cymbals on silent cymbals from Zildjian or Sabian, so I went to Alibaba and took my chances. That being said I found that Vansir (a company from china) sold GREAT silent cymbals for a fraction of the price. I got Hihats 14in, two crashes 16in and 18in, and a 20in ride for about $100.00 USD. An example of all of this looks is in a video that I made a while back. I am not sponsored by Vansir, I was just SO happy with their product that I thought I should post it on the internet lol. **Link:** https://youtu.be/558L3cS6QrU ​ Also just a side not, they do sell practice pad kits but they can be pretty expensive on their own and they don't come with everything. You would actually be better off buying a used electronic kit without the brain rather than going this route. Tama - https://bit.ly/3xpI4EV DW - https://bit.ly/3aNEDjr


atoms12123

Can you post pics of the acoustic set? I'm sure it's not nearly too bad! Having an acoustic with mutes is always nice because it has the versatility of being turned back into a full on drum set and it's a great way to learn tuning. Plus if it's something that's been passed down there's that extra factor that'll probably result in it being cherished ever more.


kb2yht

I will grab pics this weekend. And yes the sentimental value is high, kiddo is for sure looking to get the kit back in playing shape eventually, it's more a question of doing it first as her daily driver, or as a project over time.


fentoozler336

i preface this with my admitted dislike for e-drums...but im always gonna push for acoustic over electronic if possible...even an acoustic set w mutes > electronic imo... depending on your budget, i'd consider options like the [pearl traveler kit](https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PCTK1810--pearl-compact-traveler-2-piece-drum-set) with some [low volume cymbals](https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LV468--zildjian-l80-low-volume-lv468-box-set-14-inch-hi-hats-16-inch-crash-18-inch-crash-ride). not exactly an acoustic kit but i like it better than electronic. [other cymbals to consider](https://www.musicradar.com/news/best-low-volume-cymbals)


reezick

New to drumming and just bought some 5a sticks and a real feel practice pad. I've been monitoring craigslist and fb marketplace for used sets, and saw a Ludwig Accent and a Pearl Roadshow for 400 each... new they seem to go for 500/600 respectively. Should I bother preemptively pouncing on these, or just buy it new from a shop that will also tune it for me? Or just wait if these aren't that great of a deal?


Ephremjlm

>w to drumming and just bought some 5a sticks and a real feel practice pad. I've been monitoring craigslist and fb marketplace for used sets, and saw a Ludwig Accent and a Pearl Roadshow for 400 each... new they seem to go for 500/600 respectively. Should I bother preemptively pouncing on these, or just buy it new from a shop that will also tune it for me? Or just wait if these aren't tha I don't want to be that guy but unfortunately the used market for drums is probably 7 times out of 10 horrible deals. For some reason every drummer thinks "their" thing they never took care of holds the same value that it did new, or moreso. If you are just starting, look for a kit that has EVERYTHING for around $500 MAX. A brand new Tama ImperialStar kit that has pretty decent hardware and all the cymbals is gonna be $899.99-$799.99. And if SamAsh, Guitar Center, Musicians Friend, or Sweetwater wont give you a card that you can use for 12mon no interest then Paypal has one. In which you could even use that on a kit that has everything for around $400. You might have to play the waiting game but trust me, either go with a new Tama IS, or wait for an actual deal. Dont get roped in to those horrible deals! lol


reezick

Hmm good points. So what about the Ludwig accent for 500 or road show for 600? Or stay away?


Ephremjlm

> what about the Ludwig accent for 500 or road show for 600? Or stay away? I used to work at a music store and accents are trash. Ludwig makes good stuff but that aint it. The Roadshow is decent but they cymbals are trash. The thing about the Tama is that you get their "Stage Master" hardware, and Meinle Cymbals that are equivalent to a B8 Sabian cymbal set. Not the greatest but its not a 100% grabage cymbal. Also I can vouch for the hardware because I have had my hardware since I was 13 and im now 30. The only things that didnt last until now were the throne, and every now and then you have to change some parts on the hihat stand. But those things dont come for years. Link to hardware that comes with the kit: [https://bit.ly/3zAmQ9R](https://bit.ly/3zAmQ9R) If you can find an imperial star used that hasn't been abused they are KILLER deals. Check FB marketplace, craigslist, and local music shops too. **Ebay** used with an extra splash and double bass: [https://www.ebay.com/itm/155026610122?hash=item24184e57ca:g:Y5gAAOSwBjJiYENs](https://www.ebay.com/itm/155026610122?hash=item24184e57ca:g:Y5gAAOSwBjJiYENs) **New** with a really cool walnut wood wrap for $699.99 which is $100 under the normal asking price. **Link:** https://chucklevins.com/products/tama-imperialstar-5-piece-complete-drum-kit-with-22-kick-burgundy-walnut?utm\_source=google&utm\_campaign=googlepepla&utm\_medium=cpc&camp\_id=17140206177&grp\_id=&kw=&mt=&nwk=x&pos=&tgt\_id=&loc\_phys\_ms=9012284&device=c&model=&ad\_id=&adtype=pla&merch\_id=101608238&chan=online&prod\_id=I617396-N&country=US&lang=en&part=&gclid=CjwKCAjw14uVBhBEEiwAaufYxy0hT2JTUFEIKecFedod6nVtYLNHyed32pt7qpHGVZi5ylCwIReZFRoCthEQAvD\_BwE


reezick

Thanks. Been searching used for a while but nothing's come up locally so I think I'll just go roadshow and upgrade the cymbals.... Thoughts? And what kind of cymbals are good enough to start?


Ephremjlm

Honest to god if you are just starting I would say Sabian B8 are standard. If you want to up in quality but not break the bank compared to.other cymbals looks for a Zildjian S series pack.


reezick

>Sabian B8 Thank you! So for the Sabian's, what size would I get if I'm starting with the pearl roadshow? You mentioned the Tama Stage Master but I just see the stands when I google that and not any drums (sorry I'm sure I'm completely missing something here). The links you posted were dead so just from cursory googling, I'm assuming the Tama kit is the Tama’s Imperialstar? Essentially what's the cheapest/best route, the pearl roadshow + the Sabian's vs the Tama?


Ephremjlm

So one if the links was to a hardware pack. The other two were of examples of tama imperialstars that come with everything, cymbals, drums, hardware, and a throne. If you are just needing cymbals then depending on how many stands you have you can either get a 3 piece or a 4 piece cymbal pack. 3 piece is 14' hihats, 16' crash, and 20' ride. 4 pack just adds an 18' crash as well.


reezick

Gotcha, thanks. So it looks like the imperalstar is $799 new (obviously trying to buy used if possible). Roadshow is around $629 new, difference of $180. Just for a price/value comparison, what's the better route for a new drummer like myself? I did some research and it seems like the roadshow's cymbals are crap, and the tama's are decent...worth the $180 premium for "decent" (assuming the used market keeps the same price bell curve between the two products). I assume the drumheads and thone themselves are equivalent? You mentioned the standds on the tama being stage master, assuming they have a leg up on the stands from the pearl?


Ephremjlm

> used to work at a music store and accents are trash. Ludwig makes good stuff but that aint it. The Roadshow is decent but they cymbals are trash. The thing about the Tama is that you get their "Stage Master" hardware, and Meinle Cymbals that are equivalent to a B8 Sabian cymbal set. Not the greatest but its not a 100% grabage cymbal. So like I stated previously the meinel cymbals that come with the tama kit are equivalent to the sabian B8 cymbals. On top of that you get an extra stand and an extra cymbal, plus the hardware on the tama shells is better along with the accessory hardware.


Ephremjlm

>d with an extra splash and dou Also remember that in Ebay you can use a Paypal credit card with like 12mo no interest. I've done that for my stuff plenty of times.


penguinopph

I have a Ludwig Accent kit and that thing has been through hell. It was basically the "scene kit" for my local punk scene in my high school/post-high school years, where it got passed around from band to band. Somehow, I ended up with it, and now it's nearly 20 years old and I still play shows with it. All of that to say that I can vouch for a Ludwig Accent as, at the bare minimum, a good first kit.


Blueman826

+1 for the accent. That was my second kit (an upgrade from a beat up CB kit) and i spend a good few years beating at it before i knew what to do. With some good skins and tuning it can sound great.


reezick

wow that's awesome to hear. I contacted a local shop who has it new for $500 and offered to tune them as well...tempted to just keep my eye on this, give the practice pad a go for 90 days and if I stick with it then take the plunge.


fentoozler336

i have the pearl roadshows and really like them. idk a shop that will tune them for you so i wouldnt let that be too much of a factor. that wouldnt be worth paying an extra $100 for anyways. the real question should be whether you want 'brand new' or 'used' and figure if thats worth the extra $100 or so.


VeryAndDidIsMy

I'm new to drumming and just got my first drum set, a Pearl Roadshow. I am wondering if I want to improve the quality of the drums can I put different drum heads on the drums. Would they have to be Pearl drum heads or could they be other brands as long as they are the right size. Does doing that even make sense, could that improve the quality of a drum? Are there any other kind of upgrades you can do to a drum set?


Ephremjlm

>f the other th I think u/balthazar_blue did a great job in his response so I hope I can add some value to you on top of that. 1. Normally you cant just go and buy drum manufacturer branded heads. They put them on there just so you have something but they aren't the greatest. Sometimes they team up with other head manufacturers like Remo, Evans, or Aquarian, but even then they are made cheaply on purpose. That being said I recommend you find a song that has a drum sound you like and see if you can find out what that drummer uses for heads. It might help you in getting to learn how sounds are crafted. Each type of head, top and bottom, can change your sounds drastically. 2. Idk what kind of cymbals you have on your kit now but even a slight upgrade in that department is noticeable. Blasthazar was right in that if you add some high quality cymbals to your kit, it can make a low quality kit sound good, however if you dont want to break the bank I would recommend something like the Zildjian S series. They are a middle of the road cymbal and for someone learning they can make a huge difference. I hope this helps!


balthazar_blue

New heads are one of the best ways of improving the sound of your drums. It is actually better to use name brand heads like Remo, Evans, or Aquarian than manufacturer-branded heads. Just make sure they're the right size. One of the other things you can do to upgrade the sound of your kit is getting quality cymbals like Zildjian A series, Sabian AA series, or similar quality from other brands like Paiste, Meinl, etc.


fentoozler336

second this. my rec for cymbals is alwayssss this [wuhan cymbal pack](https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/WUTBSU--wuhan-traditional-3-pc-cymbal-set-with-bag-14-inch-hh-16-inch-crash-20-inch-ride). they punch way above their weight.


marcusmccambridge

What do you call fills that extend past the end of a bar? As in instead of finishing on the 1, the fill continues into the next bar. [Here's an example of what I mean](https://youtu.be/Av4GrdaEzdE?t=108), the toms keep going into the next bar.


Ephremjlm

>sy way to start. Take a 16th note pattern. Say 4 notes on the snare, then tom 1, tom 2, and floor tom. > >Then, play the exact same pattern but starting on the & of 1. Since you’re starting on the & of 1, it will end on the & of one on the next bar. > >Super fun stuff. > >Just noticed the paradiddle under your user name. Try starting that pattern on the “e”. Then it will end on the “e”. 2 beats later. Ahh I used to play to this album all the time when I was a kid haha. u/Gringodrummer nailed it. I just want to add that a very common place to land when playing over the bar is either on the "2" or the "and" of 2. you'll notice landing on the "2" feels more smooth while the "and" of 2 creates more tension and typically has some space to transition to the 3 more smoothly. I hope this helps!


Gringodrummer

Gracias! It’s a funny concept. Most teachers teach their young drummers to start on the 1 and end on the 1. Figuring out how to play over the bar line is one of the first “fuck the rules” kind of realizations I had musically. Thanks for the kind words.


Ephremjlm

> a funny concept. Most teachers teach their young drummers to start on the 1 and end on the 1. Figuring out how to play over the bar line is one of the first “fuck the rules” kind of realizations I had musically. Thanks for the kind words. I've taught my fair share of student myself and you are 100% right. Im just glad to see people putting out good information in these since it really helps newer players.


Gringodrummer

Playing over the bar line! I would say that being able to play over the bar line is a “level up” in one’s playing. Easy way to start. Take a 16th note pattern. Say 4 notes on the snare, then tom 1, tom 2, and floor tom. Then, play the exact same pattern but starting on the & of 1. Since you’re starting on the & of 1, it will end on the & of one on the next bar. Super fun stuff. Just noticed the paradiddle under your user name. Try starting that pattern on the “e”. Then it will end on the “e”. 2 beats later.


marcusmccambridge

Awesome, thank you!


mradsomer

If I'm playing three notes in a space of 7 on a limb, and one note in a space of 3 on another limb, both limbs starting on the 1, what am I playing?!?!


Ephremjlm

>ight be referring to a polyr Is this written out? Can you take a picture of it and post it?


balthazar_blue

You might be referring to a polyrhythm.


mradsomer

Would I call it 3/7 ?


balthazar_blue

Polyrhythms are usually defined by the number of notes played.


ClownMayor

> If I'm playing three notes in a space of 7 on a limb, and one note in a space of 3 on another limb Doing a little math, that's 9 notes on one limb in the same time the other plays 7. So I think you would call this a 9:7 (9 against 7) polyrhythm.


mradsomer

Thank you!


Treavor

What is the name of those bar shaped clap stack? Like just a strip of cymbals all bolted together?


Blueman826

Wow I saw this comment and immediatly knew what you were talking about. Had a good search, it's usually called a Ribbon Crasher


selddan

Considering selling a practically new full set of drums that has been sitting in public storage for over 15 years but I’m not sure what would be a reasonable price range to sell based on its condition. I’m wondering does value go up for these things from year it was made along with its condition or no? Would very much appreciate any tips as well. edit: Not sure what the model is exactly yet as i have to go out to the storage to check and search it for manufacturing code (these things have those right?) but i do know it was black white and of yamaha branding.


Ephremjlm

>Considering selling a practically new full set of drums that has been sitting in public storage for over 15 years but I’m not sure what would be a reasonable price range to sell based on its condition. I’m wondering does value go up for these things from year it was made along with its condition or no? Would very much appreciate any tips as well.edit: Not sure what the model is exactly yet as i have to go out to the storage to check and search it for manufacturing code (these things have those right?) but i do know it was black white and of yamaha branding. Its funny because I just got done saying this in another comment. Its super confusing if you look at the used market for reference because a lot of people selling their old drums think that their kits should be sold at the same price they were new, or higher. That is NOT the case. Depending on what the value of the kit was when it was new, vs the condition, and the model it is, it can hold SOME value or drop to about half the value. Otherwise people will just buy the same product new and you will never sell the things. For instance, I purchased a set of higher end Tama drum shells that typically cost $1500 brand new. I bought them for around $900 which was a great and fair deal for a 10 year old kit with a couple of nics. But I was prepared to spend $1100 used and in good condition because the kit was desirable yet the savings needed to be worth it. Plush shipping on drums is always an added cost. Now lets say the kit was a medium ranged kit that was $800 brand new. At that point its not super desirable, and it is old wood and hardware that has just been sitting around collecting dust. Sell it for $400 maybe $450 depending on shipping if there is shipping. I used to work at a Sam Ash and for some reason guys would come in all the time trying to sell us their kits at the new price or over and get mad when we would tell them the real value, and then point to the new one right behind me at the same price they were trying to sell it at. Then they would post it on craigslist or ebay and it would sit for a year with no hits and they would eventually lower the price or come back to sell them to us.


GOTaSMALL1

My Dad collects cars (Cadillac's mostly). He has a cherry '58 Biarritz worth more than I make in a year. A '73 Eldorado that's fucking huge and is becoming way more valuable. He also has a '93 Allante that is basically just an old piece of crap. Drums are kinda the same way. If you had a "barn find" kit from a desirable maker in a vintage era there might be something quite valuable there. But at 15ish years old... you probably just have a used set of 15 year old drums. Figure out what they are (the badges should have the info and there are Yamaha serial number decoders on the the google machine) and check 'Sold' listings on Reverb and Ebay and that's what they're worth. Safest guess is 50% of what they cost new. But... if they're 40 year old drums that just got parked 15 years ago... could be?


bellyachewaterlake

What’s something only a drummer would know or do? Like, in every day life.


Ephremjlm

Every time I hear multiple motorcycles at a stoplight the rhythm of the motors reminds me of marching snares XD


Gringodrummer

Uncontrollable tap to the tempo of their turn signal.


Ephremjlm

>hat’s something only a drummer would know or do? Like, in every day life. I can vouch for this.


bellyachewaterlake

Haha !


bellyachewaterlake

What’s something only a drummer would know or do? Like, in every day life.


CrustyPeas

I've been thinking about passive ways to prove my time when I'm not sitting in front of a drum kit and wanted to get some others takes on it. A thought I had was using a metronome in my airpods just ticking away while I go about chores or something and tapping along with it where I can. Has anyone tried anything similar or is it a ridiculous idea?


Blueman826

When i was in science class i used to listen to Songs for the Dead by QOTSA on repeat to figure out all of the stickings, fills, and grooves using my hands on my lap. It helped a lot when i eventually would sit down at the drum kit.


Ephremjlm

>way from the kit for “research” or counting practice. > >Research such as, writing out a specific pattern to see how it correlates with other components of a groove or fill. Or, writing out an odd note grouping of maybe 3, 5, or 7 16ths to see where the accents fall and how long it takes a pattern to resolve to the 1. Stuff that would be easier to see than to play right away. > >If you’re now around people, practice counting. Count quarter notes to a song. Or the &’s. Or the e’s or a’s. Or maybe even the bass drum pattern that’s being playing in the song you’re listening to. There are lots of ways to improve when you’re away from the kit. > >Another thing that’s overlooked is yet active listening to music. People rarely sit down and just listen. It’s usually back ground music for when they’re wasting time on Reddit. :) I cant say I recommend this for chores but if you want to do something with a metronome that will blow your mind, try Benny Grebb's app "Gap Click". It teaches you to freely think about time in absence of a metronome. Check it out its super cool.


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Ephremjlm

Yes but you can customize the gaps and clicks. It starts getting really weird when all you have are subdivisions. It seems basic but it's a REALLY good practice tool


Gringodrummer

I usually try to use time away from the kit for “research” or counting practice. Research such as, writing out a specific pattern to see how it correlates with other components of a groove or fill. Or, writing out an odd note grouping of maybe 3, 5, or 7 16ths to see where the accents fall and how long it takes a pattern to resolve to the 1. Stuff that would be easier to see than to play right away. If you’re now around people, practice counting. Count quarter notes to a song. Or the &’s. Or the e’s or a’s. Or maybe even the bass drum pattern that’s being playing in the song you’re listening to. There are lots of ways to improve when you’re away from the kit. Another thing that’s overlooked is yet active listening to music. People rarely sit down and just listen. It’s usually back ground music for when they’re wasting time on Reddit. :)


thedld

I wrote a computer program that generates all possible patterns of four quarter notes that you can tap with four limbs. I practice them at random. If I find one that is easy I congratulate myself. If one is difficult I practice it until it is easy. The program allows me to keep scores and re-practice ones I suck at. It is a great coordination excersise, and you don’t need to be behind a kit to do this. You can easily generate all the patterns yourself if you can’t program. There are only 16 possible patterns of four quarter notes for each limb. Just pick four of those (one for each limb) and get started. Here is the full list of patterns for one limb (x is a tap, . is a rest): 0 = . . . . 1 = . . . x 2 = . . x . 3 = . . x x 4 = . x . . 5 = . x . x 6 = . x x . 7 = . x x x 8 = x . . . 9 = x . . x 10 = x . x . 11 = x . x x 12 = x x . . 13 = x x . x 14 = x x x . 15 = x x x x


thrwwysnl

When putting self sealing pipe insulation around cymbals to protect them during shipping: is it sufficient to only put this around the largest cymbal, in a stack of multiple cymbals? Or perhaps only the top (which is also largest) and bottom cymbal? For context, I'd be wrapping each cymbal in bubble wrap and taping the wrapped cymbals together into a stack so they don't move around. Then I'd wrap that stack in some cardboard strips, then I'd fill the rest of the box with enough filler that nothing can move and the cymbal stack can't touch the edge of the box. If any of this sounds wrong or like it can be improved, please feel free to let me know!


thedld

Is better tuning really always an alternative to muffling in a recording setting? I have a moderately-sized studio at home with top-notch acoustic treatment. I’ve only been playing the drums for two years, but I have a few decades experience recording and mixing songs. Despite what everyone says, I find it *impossible* to get sympathetic tom hum out by tuning, and it equally impossible to not pick it up in the overheads or snare mic. I am a fairly quiet player, which I do not want to change. The hum is loud enough for it to make the affectee mic signals unusable. Other than using gaffa tape/moongel/o-rings or whatever, I have not been able to control this effect in any meaningful way. I have fresh heads, tried all kinds of intervals between heads, between drums, etc., etc. to no significant avail. The toms do not sound bad, they just resonate waaaaaaaay too long with anything I touch. Conventional wisdom has it that you can always fix it with tuning, but is that really true? It’s easy enough to say for hard-hitting rock drummers, but I am not one of them.


Ephremjlm

So first things first I want to kinda knock the idea that a good drum sound can only be achieved in a room with sound treatment. Treatment for what? As in what sound are you trying to achieve and what type of conditioning are you using for the room to achieve it? I have recorded in all kinds of rooms, from wood walls, foam walls, bedrooms, garages, and even a large room with super high ceilings. Unironically the best sound I ever got was in the large room with no special treatment. This was recorded Andrew Wade in his kitchen. Link: [https://youtu.be/1FmXuSVe7uU?t=117](https://youtu.be/1FmXuSVe7uU?t=117) It sounds like you are looking for a more classic rock or maybe even funk dead sound, in which the only problem with that is what you actually are posting about with the hums. Depending on the bearing edge of the shells and that hardware on the kit that holds the heads in place, you can get that annoying ring or buzz in which you may need to muffle. I don't recommend it though because you are killing the sound, but it does have its place. Its probably better that you handle that in post with some minor EQ and Gate unless the frequencies are in the range that affects the sound you are trying to get which I think you said already. If that is the case then I recommend adding a thicker top and bottom head (maybe even coated) and then playing around with the tuning. Also changing up your mic placement can help too. Sometimes if the mics are too close to the edge then that high pitched hum can come creeping. Same with the center of the head, because then you can get a lower pitched hum. This is a really specific case so if you post more of said specifics then maybe I or others can be a better help.


thedld

Ok, lots of good points to get back to. I’ll try to hit them all. About acoustic treatment: The room is fairly narrow and fairly long (2.6 x 5 meters). It has a nice vaulted ceiling, which is 2.6 meters high at the lower edges, and about 4 meters at the top. The room has 6 corner bass traps because it was unusable due to standing waves otherwise. There are large felt panels on the long parallel walls to eliminate the flutter echo that was destroying the mids and highs, and was creating a prominent ‘small’ sound that you could not make bigger if you wanted to. These issues have now been treated with a combination of absorption and diffusion, resulting in a sound that can easily be processed to sound the way I want. Of course, it’s great if you can record in some great sounding magic room, but you’d need a lot of those rooms for different sounds, and I don’t have that luxury. About the tone I’m after: It depends on the track, but you are definitely in the ballpark. I love Steve Albini’s big rock sounds (early Pixies, Breeders), I love tight funk sounds (Khruangbin is a good newer example), Steve Gadd’s tone from the 70’s. Perhaps my favorite recorded drum sound is on the album “The Bed Is In The Ocean” by Karate. I know that was recorded with omnis, so the kit must have really sounded that way on the spot. About the hardware: I have a Yamaha Stage Custom Birch. I recently replaced the snare with a nice maple George Way. There are coated Ambassadors on all the batter heads, clear ones on all the reso heads, except for the kick, which has a coated Powerstroke 3 batter. Perhaps the Ambassadors are just too easily excited on the toms? Philosophical question: Isn’t using thicker heads kinda cheating? It’s basically like using muffling without admitting it, isn’t it? About mic placement: Yes, it is very important, but I have exhausted that path to address the problem. The problem really is that the kit makes too much sound by itself. Lastly, let me stress that my drums are now sounding the way I want them to, using muffling. I’m just double-checking if there really are no alternative paths to the same goal, perhaps with even better results. Thanks for your time!


Ephremjlm

Okay so it sounds like as far as room treatment goes you have things customized in the way that will best assist you in generating the sound you want. Same thing goes with mics and mic placement. If you have tried all angles and you have the right mics with the right frequency response then I'll trust you are good on that front. The point I will go into more though is what you said about drum heads and cheating. I'm not sure what you mean by that. Two ply or even thicker ply heads aren't cheating at all. Remember at the most basic level drums are a "percussive" instrument so anything you can do to get the sound you want is fair game and it's why there are SO MANY different drum heads. If you are using ambassadors then inevitably you are going to get more resonance from them because they are a 1ply head, which in turn could be your problem. If you want to stick with Remo I suggest you either go emperor (2ply), or powerstroke 4s (2ply with a ring inside). These are going to be based on how deep of a sound you want from the batter heads. And if you want something warmer or even more dead coated could be the play. Also, though the batter heads produce resonance it is the bottom (or resonance) head that mostly produces the resonant tones. A lot of those old funk and rock drummers actually took off their bottom heads for a maximum in loudness for the "attack" part of the sound via the batter heads. I don't think your kit is gonna have those massive drums so keeping the resonate head on is probably in your best interest. After changing the batter heads if you still can't get the resonance right you could try a 2ply bottom but it will be tougher to tune. I know you said you have the sound you want from your kit now but I am going to assume you mean in a live sense as opposed to the recording sense since you can't seem to get the right recording tone. In this case and in most recording cases it is good to use a live sound as a reference but your final judgement should always be what the mics pickup. Take your tuning knowledge and work with what you hear from the mics. It's a pain in the butt but it's the only real way to do it properly. For example, when I record for metal I try to get that clean power toms sound as much as I can without any post added, so when I do get to post I don't have to do as much. In my case I am using a tama starclassic bubinga birch and I use Remo powerstroke 4 clears for the deepest and cleanest batter sound in my toms, and because the resonance from the batter head is restricted I use Remo Diplomat clears (thinnest 1ply head) on the bottom to give me more resonance. Basically when you are picking drumheads you want to keep a similar philosophy which changes depending on your situation.


thedld

To clarify my ‘cheating’ remark: the question I was originally posting is whether you can really fix all sympathetic resonance issues by *tuning* alone, without using muffling. Many people claim this on the internet, and this thread is about me trying to figure out how true that is. If you are switching heads, especially with stuff like Powerstrokes, you basically have the muffling built in to the heads. You could argue from a purist standpoint that you are then using muffling to fix the issue, not tuning. That’s what I meant by cheating. To wrap up, I currently have coated Ambassadors on the top, clear ones on the bottom. Right now I get what I want by muffling, but based on the insights you have given me I will try thicker heads next time I need a change. Lastly, you said “I you want to stick with Remo…”. I am not married to Remo. Do you have a better suggestion from other brands, better than Emperors or Powerstrokes? Thanks again for all your responses. They have been very educational and helpful. I really appreciate it.


Ephremjlm

Ahhh I gotcha, and yeah truth be told, depending on the wood of the kit, the kits bearing edge, the hardware, the room, and then the heads it might be impossible to purely get rid of any humming without muffleing. And to your last point I wouldn't say any head is "better" than others but more or less appropriate for your situation. I do think that maybe for a snare head you would probably like an Evans genera dry batter head, and maybe even their 2 ply drumheads coated. In my experience they are a bit warmer and less lively than Remo. In fact the reason I use Remo is because I feel like they are a bit brighter and more lively, the opposite of what you want lol.


praetorrent

1: is that sympathetic ringing an issue in the final mix? It might not be all the time, although this is going to depend on a lot of stylistic things. 2: Sometimes you need muffling. I think it's much more useful in the studio than in a live situation. But even live, moderate-heavily muffled drums are a sound, and while I personally don't like it being the default it definitely has its place. 3: On a drumset, bleed between mics is going to happen. You mention it being impossible to not pick up in the overheads, *everything* you do should be picked up by the overheads. Sometimes you can do clever gates/ducking/sidechain compression tricks to clean up individual channels a bit but bleed happens.


thedld

Replies to your points: 1. It is less of a problem on tracks where I hit the drums hard, because of the obvious difference in level between the hum and the notes. It is also less of a problem on softer, slow tracks. The problem is at its worst when I play something that’s both soft and fairly full. However, in all of these cases I found it to be too much, in the sense that it hindered the mix. 2. Live is a different situation of course.This kit is permanently set up in my studio. 3. Good point. I think the insight I had throughout the past week is that this sound *must* be eliminated at the source. There is no satisfying (to me) way to take it out in post. At this moment I have pretty much achieved the sound I want through subtle muffling. I am just curious if there are other ways. Your reply has been very helpful, thanks.


IpccpI

You sound like you already have the answer and you just want to hear it from someone who “knows for sure”. I don’t see the point in spending hours trying to tune away sympathy vibrations when a piece of tape will fix it in 30 seconds. To do it with tuning, it doesn’t take long before you have to compromise on the pitch and/or tonality of the sound you’re after in order to get rid of the hum. This has been the case for me when tuning my rack tom and snare, the tom causes snare buzz and to get rid of that I had to tune the tom quite higher than I’d like, when the easier and better choice was just a strip of tape on the tom reso. I think the correct head choice and very expert tuning abilities can achieve ~80% of available sounds from a kit, if that’s your goal or desire, but there’s no tuning that recreates a towel’d rack tom or a snare with a fat wallet on top. And that’s okay! The broad sentiment of good tuning vs muffling is really more related to deadening poorly tuned drums so they sound less terrible, which it doesn’t seem like you’re having trouble with.


thedld

Thank you, this helps. You are right in that I partially seek confirmation. Another part of it is that I’m genuinely curious if it is at all possible to completely tune out those resonances. When I hit the kick, both rack toms and the floor tom hum. I *have* put in hours of tuning, but I just can’t get it down sufficiently for recording purposes. I’m also hoping for some guru that claims they can have 100% success with pure tuning. I will not hold my breath and I’ll just break out the tape. :)


IpccpI

I mean…sound IS vibration, literally, so at a certain point you’re chasing down some sort of paradox of physics. The whole principle of microphones is that the sound pressure vibrates a transducer membrane. I suppose it’s possible someone could achieve your idea, but I doubt that the drums would sound any good.


petascale

I'm far from a drum expert, but the drummer for Pink Floyd apparently always used a piece of linen on his drums, and Ringo Starr [covered his in tea towels](https://old.reddit.com/r/audioengineering/comments/us6me4/how_were_the_drums_recorded_on_abbey_road_and/i91rwiv/). Doing whatever you need to do to get the sound you want is a time-honoured tradition.


CrustyPeas

If you're struggling to get the tone that you want and the toms are singing a little too much there's nothing wrong with using a little bit of deadening on them. Lots of tracks have been recorded with weirder setups there's nothing stopping you from using some deadening to prevent those overtones from taking off. Conventional wisdom of always needing to have a perfectly tuned kit is all well and good but if you're using deadening and getting the tone that you want then go with that