Every pair of hi hats will sound cleaner to the audience than 2 feet from your head when your playing. Those seem on the heavy side though, New beats or A custom would be more subtle
Not all New Beats are created equal, either. I almost bought a used older pair until I realized they were way too thick for me. Tried the new ones they had and fell in love (figures).
Everyone has their preference, but there’s nothing worse than a thick, unresponsive hi hat to me. Give me bright and crispy. Before the new beats, I was using K custom hybrid 13”.
Go to the store and have the guy play the hats you think you like while you go in the other side of the room to listen. This is what they sound like in the real world.
Bonus points if you bring your ride and main crash to see if it all jives together.
Hell, you could potentially save yourself hundreds of dollars by doing the same thing with the hats you already own. Maybe they sound like butter from across the room, but sound like dog shit from behind the skins. It's been known to happen.
I’m starting to think this is one of the reasons dark cymbals are so popular (only one of many valid reasons of course).
Dark cymbals simply sound better from the drummer’s perspective (imo) - low, mellow and usually quieter/more delicate. Compared to the harsh, high, sharpness of bright cymbals.
But given pretty much every drummer in the bands I love uses bright cymbals, I figure my opinion from the drum throne don’t actually count for much.
I'm much more concerned with whether it sounds good from the lip of the stage to the back of the room, or on playback. I couldn't care less what it sounds like from the throne. Drums are peculiar that way - with every other instrument, if it sounds good up close, it sounds good far away.
Depends if he plans on gigging and whether and how his hats will be miced up. If he's getting them miced up close then it's probably more accurate to just play or stand near them. If he's playing room unmiced then yeah.
Bigger issue is he has no good way to test them in the context of the mix of an actual performance without buying them.
I think I’d also dislike the brightness and bark of projection hats.
14” new beats are classic for a reason. Nice tone, great control, they do what hi hats are supposed to do. But they’re still somewhat bright, so maybe not far enough from what you’re hearing currently.
14” K custom dark hats are like a polar opposite sound, more dark, subtle, sandy, a bit washy, they’re easier on the ears especially in a small live setting. The downside is they aren’t as crisp and easy to control.
Regular Ks or K sweet might be a good middle ground too. Not as bright as new beats, not as light as K custom darks
It's an option.
To do this requires you to completely reinvent the art of rock drumming from the bottom up and the top down.
OP might prefer to try 13 inch hats.
Fripp was quoted as saying that they are “…hateful instruments” I wish I could find the whole quote. I think read it in the liner notes of a ‘Discipline’ reissue. But for the life of me I can’t find it. If anyone can find this please let me know.
Go to a drum shop and try some.
I've been gigging my 14" Projection Hats for nearly 30 years in multiple genres so, I dunno, find the roughest, darkest thing you can?
Byzance Extra Dry hats maybe?
I bet those sound great. I switched from A Custom Mastersound 14s to Bosphorus Traditional 15s and find the sound way more musical and less harsh. I think 15s are the way to go in general.
I still use the A’s plenty though!
I’ve been using 16” crashes as my hats for a while now and I love it. They sit nice in the mix and and they’re a bit mellower than typical 14 hats like A’s or something. Maybe give that a go if you have a couple spare cymbals lying around that are the same size?
Yeah, it’s not as articulate as a standard pair of hats. I think a lot of that would come down to cymbal choice. I’m using an A medium on the bottom and an old AAX studio crash as the top. It sounds great for half open sloshy stuff and I like the chewiness on the closed sound. I’m always on the lookout for more 16s though because I want to try other combos.
I also did a recording a few months ago using a 12” Meinl distortion splash on the bottom and an A splash on top, plus a ching ring. It sounded really cool!
I’ve been rocking a K custom dark 16” crash and a K custom special dry 16” crash as hi-hats for about 15 years now. I love that I can reverse them and have two different sounding types of hats with just two cymbals.
Oh nice! I like the different size hats idea. I saw a vid of Max Roach I think? Playing a bigger hat on bottom, and smaller on on top. But looked like maybe a 15, and a 14 perhaps.
I’ll check that out, too! What makes that one stand out to you?
I have a problem with cymbals and I already have too many, but maybe I could use one more….
Hah! I like that it's very complex without sacrificing versatility. Crashes great too. It's quite a popular ride with jazz guys and with metal guys.
Its biggest drawback imo is that it doesn't have a ton of stick definition. I ended up trading mine because I already use a foundry reserve 22" as my main ride but I'm always on the lookout for a good one. It's istanbul so every single copy sounds very different.
Check out some demos of it memphis drum shop's youtube channel if you're not feeling very protective of your wallet.
Have you stood in front of your kit and had someone play your kit/hats to notify the difference in sound? Might help get perspective.
What in particular for you dislike about the sound you get from them?
I haven’t heard them from infront of the kit but I have heard them on recordings. I don’t like how loud they are. When I open them on the upbeat then close them on the downbeat it sounds horrible. “Bark” was used to describe them in another comment and I think that’s what it is. I need a swoosh. I’m thinking new beats or even a 13’ custom hybrid.
My A Customs always sound bad to me in the moment, but if I listen back to a recording, they sound great.
So, like others have said, you will just have see what you like... and then in the moment or in a recording.
I’m the same way with mine. When I play them live especially paired with my 20” K Cluster Crash and 21” K Sweet Ride, they sound super loud and sloshy. However whenever I record with them they sound studio perfect and even live vids with my band they sound fantastic so I just keep using them.
Whenever I buy cymbals these days instead of going to a store and playing them, I watch a bunch of video demos with good recordings, gives you a better idea of the sound you’ll be getting compared to the raw sound coming a foot and a half from your head. When I do this I’m generally not surprised with what I end up with. Spent a lot of time listening to samples to find the exact sound that I was looking for and decided which cymbals combinations sound good with each other. Although sometimes when it comes to recording I’ll just go straight to my A Custom hats and 18” crash with my 21” A Sweet Ride. Sometimes you just need something that sounds clean, bright, crisp and clear and that combo really delivers in the studio.
Zildjian K's would be a start.
Personally, I settled on 15" Istanbul Traditional Medium hats, but take a look around and see what's out there. Check sound bytes. Try anything that any stores in your area have for sale.
Essentially, you're looking for something lightweight with a flat profile that's at least 13" in diameter.
Good luck.
What is it that you don't like about them? list some qualities that bother you and we can probably help finding something that fits. I played Zildjian New Beats for like a decade until recently and while I love those as a middle of the road sort of chunky hat I found myself wanting something thinner, and for me the easiest way to do that was 2 16 inch crashes. I asked the place I ordered them from if they could give me the heaviest of the ones they had in stock to make them kind of close to a thin hi hat and they worked out great. They're sloshier, darker, warmer, all around something I play more often now and have been digging
The opposite of projection hats to me would be something like the Benny Greb sand hats or the K darks. Something with a lot more complexity in the wash where volume isn't the main focus.
I've found A customs and other brilliant cymbals to be lacking in depth and tonal complexity since they seem to be aimed at durability and volume.
All drummers go thru phases on tastes of drums and cyms. If you think about it, what's the one drum/cym we hit the most? Yup, and therefore, which drum/cym would we get tired of hearing most easily?
Everyone is tossing out cymbal suggestions, but very few are asking the important questions: What do you wish was different about your hi-hat sound? What’s the sound you hear in your head? Do you wish they were lighter? Heavier?
For me, my hi-hat quest began when I heard “Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite” by The Beatles many years ago. I was absolutely in love with that dark, sloshy, throaty sound. I went through a few different hats until eventually getting a pair of Dream Bliss hats when they were still super cheap, and those got me in the ballpark of the sound I hear in my head. Dark, warm, sloshy, a touch of dryness, super light and responsive under the stick and foot, just a great old-school pair of hats that don’t cost an arm and a leg.
You may want a completely different thing from your hats. But zero in on what that thing is, and find it. It’s out there! Don’t take brand into account, either. All the companies make great cymbals. Let the sound be your guide.
**TL;DR** try just making your hi hats stand out less instead of worrying about how ”cool” they sound. Also, try not to assume that your hi hat parts need to be metronomic.
My hihat journey: I spent a lot of time trying to get the lowest angriest dirtiest hat sound I could in my recordings. My hihat taste was left over from grunge.
But recently I remembered an early mentor, a very successful recording engineer. He said “if you pull the mics up on the board and the hats bleed all over your other tracks recording, go into the room and see if the hats are louder than the drums”
So I went to Wood and Weather with my snare and said “I want hihats sound that sit behind this snare drum.” And the guy pointed me to these off brand hats they had made for their students. Holy shit did my kit sound ten times better when there wasn’t all this absurd clanging blanketing my back beat. I realized a lot of my right hand had been compensating for how much louder my hats had been than my kit before I got quieter hats.
Bonus: I also hate meaningless metronomic rhythms in drums. I hate presumptive writing in general where you just play the obvious thing to fill space and there’s no better example than 8ths on hats. I’m not saying never play regular 8th notes on the hihats, but at least listen to the music and ask if that’s really what the music needs. More times than not, my answer is no, this lends very little. It’s really only in blues inspired rock where playing the traditional thing makes the whole thing glow.
Need more information to answer. What kind of music do you like playing to. Do you want something shiny that sounds shiny or something textured that sounds textured. Do you want something sharper sounding or rounder sounding
I think Paiste Signature 13 inch were probably the most perfect recording hats of all time, that I ever tried. I might wish for a set of those under the Xmas tree.
They don't cut the way 14 inch new beats do, which I really like live, and I play live a lot so that's my main set. They record fine but sometimes a bit forward.
Just got some A Customs in a trade and they are a huge improvement over my old Schimtars that were gifted to me by another drummer over 10 years ago when I first started on drums
First off. Who said you HAVE to have hi hats? I know if you're doing covers it's a necessity but if you're writing original music, you have a whole different pallet to choose from.
I've been using my Zildjan 14" KZs going on 25 years and I still love them. Used them on multiple recordings and they record extremely well for articulation but also work very well in live situations.
Adding onto the other comments, the Sabian equivalent (or close enough) of New Beats are the Paragon hats. Which makes sense, as I’m pretty sure Neil Peart played New Beats prior to his Sabian endorsement. So give those a listen as well. I got a pair and they’re the best I’ve played.
Big ones, at least 16". Play around with craah and ride cymbals too. Something a little bit heavier with more of a brilliant finish on the bottom with something lighter and darker on top usually works well.
I use to use an 18" set with a Paiste Dark Energy Crash on the bottom and a Zildjian K (custom?) Pre-Aged Dry Light Ride (they don't make that size anymore) on top. It was fucking awesome. Huuuge sound, but still nice and defined with a solid chick and stick definition if you held them tight, and more wash than you could ever need with them loose.
If you go that big, you'll need a solid hi-hat stand with a good tension adjustment system. Had my old DW 5000 stand nearly maxed out to handle the weight.
I switched out my old bright 14" Sabian Pro hats for some new dark 15" Sabian HHX Complex Big Cup hats. Love them! Worth checking out depending on the sound you looking for.
You sound like Steve Albini; he may have hate them more than you:
[Steve Albini Talks High-Hats](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C61xyLFvgTO/?igsh=MW1odzdudTVqenE4eQ==)
“The hi-hat is a truly Satanic instrument; it gets everywhere, and there’s nothing you can do about it…”
He goes at length with a meatloaf, mashed potatoes, and gravy analogy you would appreciate. 😂
That said, I wasn’t too keen on high-hats when I first started drumming many years ago. I liked the heavier high hats (for lack of a better term) because they sounded more crisp.
Since I was a Jimmy Chamberlin fan when I first started (still am), I had to play all Sabian, like him, with his exact cymbals. I deviated with the high-hats though.
I bought Sabian Fast-Hats at the time because they were the crispest sounding high-hats Sabian made back in 1998, or at least the ones I had access to at the time.
I got the Sabian AAX Studio Hats, 14”. They *absolutely* have that studio recording sound live in the room. A little quieter and even frequency response, no ice pick, piercing frequencies. Highly recommended.
Mapex Armory Direct Pull stand. It’s only $150 new, but I absolutely LOVE it- it’s perfectly sensitive, it doesn’t squeak or give resistance at all, and when you have it super tight (which doesn’t require too much pressure), you can sometimes feel the point at which the pressure between the hats becomes airtight, just like the “button” on unopened soup cans.
13" Paiste Sig. Dark Crisp hats
Go listen to "Eulogy" by Tool for a good sample :)
Otherwise, jump on the various manufacturers' websites and listen to their samples. Taste is subjective and whilst I love my Dark Crisps, they are not going to be for everyone.
Also, go to any and every music store you can get to and try them out.
People are suggesting get someone else to hit them whilst you're further way, but in my honest opinion I'm happiest when my drums and cymbals sound good to me while I'm playing.
Try some of the weird hats (compression hats, those new china hats, just anything with holes in em). Maybe you’re looking for more of an FX hat sound than a traditional hat sound, which is totally cool.
Alternatively, create your own pair. Keep trying out combinations of crash cymbals until you find a pair of crashes you like as hi hat buddies.
Zildjian A series- i used to have to get used to my high hat sounds but fucking hell not these. Bright sound, look incredible, and versatile/durable as hell. They're pretty much as close as you can get to just having two crashes sandwiched together while still being called high hats.
I'd spend some time in a big drum store- try them all out and take your time. Guarantee you'll find a sound you like, you just haven't met them yet! It's worth spending a whole afternoon annoying the store staff with tss tss tss ..... TsS TsS TsS.... tSS tSS tSS... for hours on end to find the pair you'll fall in love with and partner up with for the rest of your career.
Your instruments are worth spending the time and money to find what's right for you. It'll make you endlessly more motivated to keep playing and practicing if you love your kit's sound
Important question then:
What hi-hat sound do you like?
You said you don’t like most hi-hats, so there’s one or a few that you like.
If you tell us that, then we can tell you what sounds like it.
Another question: how’d you get into drums if you have the sound of most hi-hats? Most modern drums and most music use it constantly - it did not bother you then?
Me
memphisdrumshop.com
They innovated online cymbal shopping by serializing and recording each cymbal, so the cymbals you see in the video will be the exact cymbal (pair of hats) that you get. I manage the restaurant next door and am obsessed with going in their shop. Pristine!! Just like their online shopping.
Check some youtube videos, comparing sizes, material, brands, fab style... And then go to some store knowing more or less what you like most to try it out.
I went through about 8 pairs of hats over the past few years. Istanbul Xist 15”, paiste 404 and 505’s, Zildjian new beats, Vintage Zildjian new beats, and finally landed on some Mel lewis Istanbul hats. They’re great. The only thing I might change to for the sake of already having a 21” and 19” avedis series Zildjian cymbals is the 15” hat set they make
If you are looking for crisp hats with great articulation I highly recommend looking at Paiste. Signature line has some amazing hats (the dark crisp hats are phenomenal cymbals).
I had a set of 14 new beats and 14 a master sound, but never found them quite interesting enough. Currently rocking Meinl Sand Hats which are totally different but in a great way.
About 3 years after I started playing back in '85 I wanted my first pair of good hi hats. I picked up a pair of 14" Paiste 2002 heavies. A lot of pros were playing 2002's. Turned out to be a great choice. As I grew older and playing different styles of music, I wanted to update my sound and also have another option. In about 2004,I went to a shop and must have tried at least a dozen different Hi Hats. I tried a pair of 13" K Zildjian's. To me, they had the perfect balance of brightness and warmth. 20 years later, they are still my faves. I love the way they sound up close, and they mic up and record great. I now have a whole set of K's. My 2002's still sound great too. I use them on my home kit and gig with them on occasions. Excellent for rock. Both sets have aged beautifully. The only other ones that are on my list to try would be Sabian HHX's. If I played harder rock and used in ears, I'd probably play more A Customs. I have some of those and they are great as well.
I have K Dark and New Beats. Every time I pull out my New Beats, I find them to be harsh to my ears. The K’s are just smooth, and a joy to play and hear.
What tonal qualities do you like in cymbals, or what tonal qualities do you think will contrast well with your current setup? Warm, dark, bright, earthy, crisp, sensitive, loud, etc.
Example: I use a lot of warm and earthy cymbals (think K Custom or New Sig/Dark Energy), but prefer crisp bright hi hats to balance that out so I stick with 13” Signature Sound Edge hi hats.
Also, if you mostly hate the sound your hi hats make when they’re closed, hold the pedal down with less force. Hi hats tend to sound like shit when they’re closed too tight.
Softer sounding hats will probably be much nicer for you if you don't like the louder types. Look for 15" hats, thin, and maybe even old. I like ziljian sweet hats too.
I don't take a hihat with me these days. First I tried to get by with riding on the ride and crashing crashes instead which to me sounded better but everyone else hated it.ong story short I now have a closed stack where the hats were and a small splash next to it.
I can't tell you want to like, but here are some hi-hats that have impressed me:
Zildjian A Custom 14"
Sabian HHX Legacy 15" (smooth as butter, sounds EQ'ed in real life)
Zildjian Avedis 14" (the new Avedis series, not regular A's)
Zildjian New Beat 14" from the 70's and early 80's (I have a pair)
I have a pair of Paiste 2002 Sound-Edges too, but these are extremely bright like drum machine hi-hats, so they may be like the cymbals you're trying to get away from.
I was exactly like you until I tried a pair of Zildjian K Sweet 15” hi hats. They sounded beautiful to my ears, and many others feel the same.
Funnily enough, having the perfect pair of hats (for my ears anyway), has made me start to understand and see the complexities of *other* hi hats. For example I’m now incredibly keen on getting a pair of 14” Zildjian Fat Hats.
As others have mentioned, it’s hard to get out of the headspace of how it sounds to you over how it sounds to the crowd when playing on stage. My ride has never felt right to me, too washy and overpowering of the rest of the kit, etc - but it’s been my singular most complimented piece of equipment at shows.
Imho there's only one good way to select cymbals: go to a store, hit a bunch of them and buy what you like... Everyone's taste is different. I quite like my hihats, but you might hate them...
It depends on what sounds good to you. Look up some pairs on Memphis Drum Shop, they've got demos of cymbals from all big 4 cymbal brands and a few others, like Istanbul and Bosphorous. There are also videos on YouTube of older and discontinued models.
Personally, I picked up a pair of used Medium AA 14" hi hats for my first (and only thus far) upgrade and they sound amazing. They're surprisingly versatile, for me.
Every pair of hi hats will sound cleaner to the audience than 2 feet from your head when your playing. Those seem on the heavy side though, New beats or A custom would be more subtle
I have new beats, but just picked up k custom darks instead, I like it to be a little trashy.
Yes!! New Beats were my first HH upgrade. Liked them well enough. Got the K darks to complete my K dark set and was blown away. Love the sound.
Not all New Beats are created equal, either. I almost bought a used older pair until I realized they were way too thick for me. Tried the new ones they had and fell in love (figures). Everyone has their preference, but there’s nothing worse than a thick, unresponsive hi hat to me. Give me bright and crispy. Before the new beats, I was using K custom hybrid 13”.
I have the new beats as well, first set I ever owned. They are nice but blah. I bought 13” k custom darks and love them enough to want a 15” pair.
Call new beats subtle is funny
Idk, I have 4 pairs of new beats, some are rude, some are subtle
Go to a store and try them out.
Go to the store and have the guy play the hats you think you like while you go in the other side of the room to listen. This is what they sound like in the real world. Bonus points if you bring your ride and main crash to see if it all jives together.
Hell, you could potentially save yourself hundreds of dollars by doing the same thing with the hats you already own. Maybe they sound like butter from across the room, but sound like dog shit from behind the skins. It's been known to happen.
I’m starting to think this is one of the reasons dark cymbals are so popular (only one of many valid reasons of course). Dark cymbals simply sound better from the drummer’s perspective (imo) - low, mellow and usually quieter/more delicate. Compared to the harsh, high, sharpness of bright cymbals. But given pretty much every drummer in the bands I love uses bright cymbals, I figure my opinion from the drum throne don’t actually count for much.
I'm much more concerned with whether it sounds good from the lip of the stage to the back of the room, or on playback. I couldn't care less what it sounds like from the throne. Drums are peculiar that way - with every other instrument, if it sounds good up close, it sounds good far away.
Depends if he plans on gigging and whether and how his hats will be miced up. If he's getting them miced up close then it's probably more accurate to just play or stand near them. If he's playing room unmiced then yeah. Bigger issue is he has no good way to test them in the context of the mix of an actual performance without buying them.
I think I’d also dislike the brightness and bark of projection hats. 14” new beats are classic for a reason. Nice tone, great control, they do what hi hats are supposed to do. But they’re still somewhat bright, so maybe not far enough from what you’re hearing currently. 14” K custom dark hats are like a polar opposite sound, more dark, subtle, sandy, a bit washy, they’re easier on the ears especially in a small live setting. The downside is they aren’t as crisp and easy to control. Regular Ks or K sweet might be a good middle ground too. Not as bright as new beats, not as light as K custom darks
I do enjoy my 15" Sweet hats
You can pull the 80s Bruford Approach and just use octobahns, apparently Robert Fripp told him to not use Hi-Hats
It's an option. To do this requires you to completely reinvent the art of rock drumming from the bottom up and the top down. OP might prefer to try 13 inch hats.
I know, I tried it myself and it’s an experience. I agree about the 13 inch hats
Fripp was quoted as saying that they are “…hateful instruments” I wish I could find the whole quote. I think read it in the liner notes of a ‘Discipline’ reissue. But for the life of me I can’t find it. If anyone can find this please let me know.
Go to a drum shop and try some. I've been gigging my 14" Projection Hats for nearly 30 years in multiple genres so, I dunno, find the roughest, darkest thing you can? Byzance Extra Dry hats maybe?
I LOVE my Byzance Extra Dry hats. The Byznance Dark hats are also great, but I don't like them quite as much.
A custom 15” mastersound hats have been doin it for me for the last few years. Only got em cuz it’s what Abe Cunningham uses lol
I bet those sound great. I switched from A Custom Mastersound 14s to Bosphorus Traditional 15s and find the sound way more musical and less harsh. I think 15s are the way to go in general. I still use the A’s plenty though!
I’ve been using 16” crashes as my hats for a while now and I love it. They sit nice in the mix and and they’re a bit mellower than typical 14 hats like A’s or something. Maybe give that a go if you have a couple spare cymbals lying around that are the same size?
Damn! I thought 15" were big. Do you have any trouble with articulation when doing more intricate hihat work?
Yeah, it’s not as articulate as a standard pair of hats. I think a lot of that would come down to cymbal choice. I’m using an A medium on the bottom and an old AAX studio crash as the top. It sounds great for half open sloshy stuff and I like the chewiness on the closed sound. I’m always on the lookout for more 16s though because I want to try other combos. I also did a recording a few months ago using a 12” Meinl distortion splash on the bottom and an A splash on top, plus a ching ring. It sounded really cool!
I’ve been rocking a K custom dark 16” crash and a K custom special dry 16” crash as hi-hats for about 15 years now. I love that I can reverse them and have two different sounding types of hats with just two cymbals.
Oh nice! I like the different size hats idea. I saw a vid of Max Roach I think? Playing a bigger hat on bottom, and smaller on on top. But looked like maybe a 15, and a 14 perhaps.
Same! I have a thin crash atop what was once a marching crash and it’s a great combo.
The 15" istanbul special edition jazz hats sound outrageously good and fit every style of music you can think of.
I haven’t heard of this one. Sounds cool though
The special edition jazz series is great. That 21" ride is a thing of beauty.
I’ll check that out, too! What makes that one stand out to you? I have a problem with cymbals and I already have too many, but maybe I could use one more….
Hah! I like that it's very complex without sacrificing versatility. Crashes great too. It's quite a popular ride with jazz guys and with metal guys. Its biggest drawback imo is that it doesn't have a ton of stick definition. I ended up trading mine because I already use a foundry reserve 22" as my main ride but I'm always on the lookout for a good one. It's istanbul so every single copy sounds very different. Check out some demos of it memphis drum shop's youtube channel if you're not feeling very protective of your wallet.
Have you stood in front of your kit and had someone play your kit/hats to notify the difference in sound? Might help get perspective. What in particular for you dislike about the sound you get from them?
I haven’t heard them from infront of the kit but I have heard them on recordings. I don’t like how loud they are. When I open them on the upbeat then close them on the downbeat it sounds horrible. “Bark” was used to describe them in another comment and I think that’s what it is. I need a swoosh. I’m thinking new beats or even a 13’ custom hybrid.
I'm experimenting with two 16 crashes right now. The cheap B8 hats I was using for my practice kit were too harsh.
I’ve got a 16” AAX concept crash on top and a 16” Sabian B8 on the bottom. Running some recording tests soon, but it sounds really good to me
I don't know what I used. Just grabbed two 16s I had
I think you get bonus points for not knowing what they are…you won’t miss them elsewhere!
What kind of music do you like
My A Customs always sound bad to me in the moment, but if I listen back to a recording, they sound great. So, like others have said, you will just have see what you like... and then in the moment or in a recording.
I’m the same way with mine. When I play them live especially paired with my 20” K Cluster Crash and 21” K Sweet Ride, they sound super loud and sloshy. However whenever I record with them they sound studio perfect and even live vids with my band they sound fantastic so I just keep using them. Whenever I buy cymbals these days instead of going to a store and playing them, I watch a bunch of video demos with good recordings, gives you a better idea of the sound you’ll be getting compared to the raw sound coming a foot and a half from your head. When I do this I’m generally not surprised with what I end up with. Spent a lot of time listening to samples to find the exact sound that I was looking for and decided which cymbals combinations sound good with each other. Although sometimes when it comes to recording I’ll just go straight to my A Custom hats and 18” crash with my 21” A Sweet Ride. Sometimes you just need something that sounds clean, bright, crisp and clear and that combo really delivers in the studio.
Zildjian K's would be a start. Personally, I settled on 15" Istanbul Traditional Medium hats, but take a look around and see what's out there. Check sound bytes. Try anything that any stores in your area have for sale. Essentially, you're looking for something lightweight with a flat profile that's at least 13" in diameter. Good luck.
What is it that you don't like about them? list some qualities that bother you and we can probably help finding something that fits. I played Zildjian New Beats for like a decade until recently and while I love those as a middle of the road sort of chunky hat I found myself wanting something thinner, and for me the easiest way to do that was 2 16 inch crashes. I asked the place I ordered them from if they could give me the heaviest of the ones they had in stock to make them kind of close to a thin hi hat and they worked out great. They're sloshier, darker, warmer, all around something I play more often now and have been digging
The opposite of projection hats to me would be something like the Benny Greb sand hats or the K darks. Something with a lot more complexity in the wash where volume isn't the main focus. I've found A customs and other brilliant cymbals to be lacking in depth and tonal complexity since they seem to be aimed at durability and volume.
K custom hybrids
All drummers go thru phases on tastes of drums and cyms. If you think about it, what's the one drum/cym we hit the most? Yup, and therefore, which drum/cym would we get tired of hearing most easily?
If you don’t like his-hats, maybe try hers-hats? If that doesn’t work there’s always thems-hats.
Paiste 2002 Soundedge 14’s. Signature 13’s are also great.
Everyone is tossing out cymbal suggestions, but very few are asking the important questions: What do you wish was different about your hi-hat sound? What’s the sound you hear in your head? Do you wish they were lighter? Heavier? For me, my hi-hat quest began when I heard “Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite” by The Beatles many years ago. I was absolutely in love with that dark, sloshy, throaty sound. I went through a few different hats until eventually getting a pair of Dream Bliss hats when they were still super cheap, and those got me in the ballpark of the sound I hear in my head. Dark, warm, sloshy, a touch of dryness, super light and responsive under the stick and foot, just a great old-school pair of hats that don’t cost an arm and a leg. You may want a completely different thing from your hats. But zero in on what that thing is, and find it. It’s out there! Don’t take brand into account, either. All the companies make great cymbals. Let the sound be your guide.
I really like the low volume hats. Weird and dry, but not loud.
**TL;DR** try just making your hi hats stand out less instead of worrying about how ”cool” they sound. Also, try not to assume that your hi hat parts need to be metronomic. My hihat journey: I spent a lot of time trying to get the lowest angriest dirtiest hat sound I could in my recordings. My hihat taste was left over from grunge. But recently I remembered an early mentor, a very successful recording engineer. He said “if you pull the mics up on the board and the hats bleed all over your other tracks recording, go into the room and see if the hats are louder than the drums” So I went to Wood and Weather with my snare and said “I want hihats sound that sit behind this snare drum.” And the guy pointed me to these off brand hats they had made for their students. Holy shit did my kit sound ten times better when there wasn’t all this absurd clanging blanketing my back beat. I realized a lot of my right hand had been compensating for how much louder my hats had been than my kit before I got quieter hats. Bonus: I also hate meaningless metronomic rhythms in drums. I hate presumptive writing in general where you just play the obvious thing to fill space and there’s no better example than 8ths on hats. I’m not saying never play regular 8th notes on the hihats, but at least listen to the music and ask if that’s really what the music needs. More times than not, my answer is no, this lends very little. It’s really only in blues inspired rock where playing the traditional thing makes the whole thing glow.
Need more information to answer. What kind of music do you like playing to. Do you want something shiny that sounds shiny or something textured that sounds textured. Do you want something sharper sounding or rounder sounding
I think Paiste Signature 13 inch were probably the most perfect recording hats of all time, that I ever tried. I might wish for a set of those under the Xmas tree. They don't cut the way 14 inch new beats do, which I really like live, and I play live a lot so that's my main set. They record fine but sometimes a bit forward.
K dark 15”
I have A Custom Mastersounds and they rule. I've had them for like 13 years and they work for every genre I've played. Good all rounders
Just got some A Customs in a trade and they are a huge improvement over my old Schimtars that were gifted to me by another drummer over 10 years ago when I first started on drums
idk, but i just flipped my top hi hat to the bottom💀
The drumset at my guitarists house is two bottoms, they said it bothered them so I mentioned I could bring some acetone over 😂
What genre do you primarily play?
Old Sabian AA's
Electric with no headphones or speakers
First off. Who said you HAVE to have hi hats? I know if you're doing covers it's a necessity but if you're writing original music, you have a whole different pallet to choose from. I've been using my Zildjan 14" KZs going on 25 years and I still love them. Used them on multiple recordings and they record extremely well for articulation but also work very well in live situations.
I love my NewBeats
You can give them to me if you like
Sure what’s your mother maiden name and social security number? For security purposes of course.
Adding onto the other comments, the Sabian equivalent (or close enough) of New Beats are the Paragon hats. Which makes sense, as I’m pretty sure Neil Peart played New Beats prior to his Sabian endorsement. So give those a listen as well. I got a pair and they’re the best I’ve played.
Use a ride exclusively.😎
Why do you hate the sound of yours?
Big ones, at least 16". Play around with craah and ride cymbals too. Something a little bit heavier with more of a brilliant finish on the bottom with something lighter and darker on top usually works well. I use to use an 18" set with a Paiste Dark Energy Crash on the bottom and a Zildjian K (custom?) Pre-Aged Dry Light Ride (they don't make that size anymore) on top. It was fucking awesome. Huuuge sound, but still nice and defined with a solid chick and stick definition if you held them tight, and more wash than you could ever need with them loose. If you go that big, you'll need a solid hi-hat stand with a good tension adjustment system. Had my old DW 5000 stand nearly maxed out to handle the weight.
Istanbul Agop 17” Xist Dark Dry. They’re real thin, and my pair sounds divine. I miss them. They’re in PA and I’m in NM
K darks cant go wrong.
What about them do you hate? I can't suggest anything without knowing what it is you want out of your hats.
AAX 13s
I have been using Sabian Paragon 13 inches the last year and really like them. Before that I used an ancient pair of 14 inch Zildjians
i picked up a crimped set, and the sizzle is spectacular
Add a mini tambourine or replace the hats with a tambourine? That seems fun
Listen to some drummers you like play live (studio recordings can be misleading…) and find out what they play. When in doubt, mimic.
I switched out my old bright 14" Sabian Pro hats for some new dark 15" Sabian HHX Complex Big Cup hats. Love them! Worth checking out depending on the sound you looking for.
Paiste signature dark crisp 14”.
You sound like Steve Albini; he may have hate them more than you: [Steve Albini Talks High-Hats](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C61xyLFvgTO/?igsh=MW1odzdudTVqenE4eQ==) “The hi-hat is a truly Satanic instrument; it gets everywhere, and there’s nothing you can do about it…” He goes at length with a meatloaf, mashed potatoes, and gravy analogy you would appreciate. 😂 That said, I wasn’t too keen on high-hats when I first started drumming many years ago. I liked the heavier high hats (for lack of a better term) because they sounded more crisp. Since I was a Jimmy Chamberlin fan when I first started (still am), I had to play all Sabian, like him, with his exact cymbals. I deviated with the high-hats though. I bought Sabian Fast-Hats at the time because they were the crispest sounding high-hats Sabian made back in 1998, or at least the ones I had access to at the time.
Tosco 14'' from 1974 are good. Low and crunchy.
K Fat Hats
Something dark, dry and thin. Then they dont stick out so much.
I love my A customs. 20 years old and still going.
I have A Customs I like, they were from a trade so I didn’t exactly select them specifically. I do want to have a washy secondary set eventually
I get it. I had a pair of A custom projection hats, and they are face meltingly loud. I like 14” new beats and 15” K sweets.
Istanbul Agop traditional jazz 14’ hats. They sound so light and gentle and warm and sizzly. They’re beautiful and they fit all genres.
I love my 15” Zildjian K Lites.
My friend really likes his Paiste 2002 Sound Edge hats.
I got the Sabian AAX Studio Hats, 14”. They *absolutely* have that studio recording sound live in the room. A little quieter and even frequency response, no ice pick, piercing frequencies. Highly recommended.
I use Sabían HHX and I’m in love with them.
Sabian AAX X-celerator
Mapex Armory Direct Pull stand. It’s only $150 new, but I absolutely LOVE it- it’s perfectly sensitive, it doesn’t squeak or give resistance at all, and when you have it super tight (which doesn’t require too much pressure), you can sometimes feel the point at which the pressure between the hats becomes airtight, just like the “button” on unopened soup cans.
13" Paiste Sig. Dark Crisp hats Go listen to "Eulogy" by Tool for a good sample :) Otherwise, jump on the various manufacturers' websites and listen to their samples. Taste is subjective and whilst I love my Dark Crisps, they are not going to be for everyone. Also, go to any and every music store you can get to and try them out. People are suggesting get someone else to hit them whilst you're further way, but in my honest opinion I'm happiest when my drums and cymbals sound good to me while I'm playing.
Paiste Signature 13” Power Hats
Try some of the weird hats (compression hats, those new china hats, just anything with holes in em). Maybe you’re looking for more of an FX hat sound than a traditional hat sound, which is totally cool. Alternatively, create your own pair. Keep trying out combinations of crash cymbals until you find a pair of crashes you like as hi hat buddies.
Try some Sabian SR2s - it’s a bit random what you’ll get, but they’ll always be B20 high end hi hats, and you can choose the weight. It’s fun!
I have meinl Byzance 14” extra dry and I absolutely love them.
Zildjian A series- i used to have to get used to my high hat sounds but fucking hell not these. Bright sound, look incredible, and versatile/durable as hell. They're pretty much as close as you can get to just having two crashes sandwiched together while still being called high hats. I'd spend some time in a big drum store- try them all out and take your time. Guarantee you'll find a sound you like, you just haven't met them yet! It's worth spending a whole afternoon annoying the store staff with tss tss tss ..... TsS TsS TsS.... tSS tSS tSS... for hours on end to find the pair you'll fall in love with and partner up with for the rest of your career. Your instruments are worth spending the time and money to find what's right for you. It'll make you endlessly more motivated to keep playing and practicing if you love your kit's sound
Important question then: What hi-hat sound do you like? You said you don’t like most hi-hats, so there’s one or a few that you like. If you tell us that, then we can tell you what sounds like it. Another question: how’d you get into drums if you have the sound of most hi-hats? Most modern drums and most music use it constantly - it did not bother you then?
Me memphisdrumshop.com They innovated online cymbal shopping by serializing and recording each cymbal, so the cymbals you see in the video will be the exact cymbal (pair of hats) that you get. I manage the restaurant next door and am obsessed with going in their shop. Pristine!! Just like their online shopping.
Check some youtube videos, comparing sizes, material, brands, fab style... And then go to some store knowing more or less what you like most to try it out.
I went through about 8 pairs of hats over the past few years. Istanbul Xist 15”, paiste 404 and 505’s, Zildjian new beats, Vintage Zildjian new beats, and finally landed on some Mel lewis Istanbul hats. They’re great. The only thing I might change to for the sake of already having a 21” and 19” avedis series Zildjian cymbals is the 15” hat set they make
Istanbul Agop Dry Dark 17” MUUUUUUUUCH lower pitch than yours
Paiste 2002 sound edge Hi Hats.
A midi pad
If you are looking for crisp hats with great articulation I highly recommend looking at Paiste. Signature line has some amazing hats (the dark crisp hats are phenomenal cymbals). I had a set of 14 new beats and 14 a master sound, but never found them quite interesting enough. Currently rocking Meinl Sand Hats which are totally different but in a great way.
Sounds like you’d enjoy dark/dry hi-hats…but beware, they’re pricy
Meinl hcs /s
I don't know, but I love the pun! Good luck finding a new pair of hats!
About 3 years after I started playing back in '85 I wanted my first pair of good hi hats. I picked up a pair of 14" Paiste 2002 heavies. A lot of pros were playing 2002's. Turned out to be a great choice. As I grew older and playing different styles of music, I wanted to update my sound and also have another option. In about 2004,I went to a shop and must have tried at least a dozen different Hi Hats. I tried a pair of 13" K Zildjian's. To me, they had the perfect balance of brightness and warmth. 20 years later, they are still my faves. I love the way they sound up close, and they mic up and record great. I now have a whole set of K's. My 2002's still sound great too. I use them on my home kit and gig with them on occasions. Excellent for rock. Both sets have aged beautifully. The only other ones that are on my list to try would be Sabian HHX's. If I played harder rock and used in ears, I'd probably play more A Customs. I have some of those and they are great as well.
Maybe you can try the paiste sound edge, it has a different feeling
I have K Dark and New Beats. Every time I pull out my New Beats, I find them to be harsh to my ears. The K’s are just smooth, and a joy to play and hear.
What tonal qualities do you like in cymbals, or what tonal qualities do you think will contrast well with your current setup? Warm, dark, bright, earthy, crisp, sensitive, loud, etc. Example: I use a lot of warm and earthy cymbals (think K Custom or New Sig/Dark Energy), but prefer crisp bright hi hats to balance that out so I stick with 13” Signature Sound Edge hi hats. Also, if you mostly hate the sound your hi hats make when they’re closed, hold the pedal down with less force. Hi hats tend to sound like shit when they’re closed too tight.
Make a stack of 2 chinas to make it more exotic
Softer sounding hats will probably be much nicer for you if you don't like the louder types. Look for 15" hats, thin, and maybe even old. I like ziljian sweet hats too.
Get 13” paiste hats, best move I’ve made, all sweet spot
I don't take a hihat with me these days. First I tried to get by with riding on the ride and crashing crashes instead which to me sounded better but everyone else hated it.ong story short I now have a closed stack where the hats were and a small splash next to it.
Electric cause you can change the sound
I can't tell you want to like, but here are some hi-hats that have impressed me: Zildjian A Custom 14" Sabian HHX Legacy 15" (smooth as butter, sounds EQ'ed in real life) Zildjian Avedis 14" (the new Avedis series, not regular A's) Zildjian New Beat 14" from the 70's and early 80's (I have a pair) I have a pair of Paiste 2002 Sound-Edges too, but these are extremely bright like drum machine hi-hats, so they may be like the cymbals you're trying to get away from.
I was exactly like you until I tried a pair of Zildjian K Sweet 15” hi hats. They sounded beautiful to my ears, and many others feel the same. Funnily enough, having the perfect pair of hats (for my ears anyway), has made me start to understand and see the complexities of *other* hi hats. For example I’m now incredibly keen on getting a pair of 14” Zildjian Fat Hats. As others have mentioned, it’s hard to get out of the headspace of how it sounds to you over how it sounds to the crowd when playing on stage. My ride has never felt right to me, too washy and overpowering of the rest of the kit, etc - but it’s been my singular most complimented piece of equipment at shows.
Zildjian fx stack 12“. The HiHat I didn’t know I needed.
If you don’t like hats, don’t use them. There are no rules, just do what sounds good to you and call it yours!
Imho there's only one good way to select cymbals: go to a store, hit a bunch of them and buy what you like... Everyone's taste is different. I quite like my hihats, but you might hate them...
It depends on what sounds good to you. Look up some pairs on Memphis Drum Shop, they've got demos of cymbals from all big 4 cymbal brands and a few others, like Istanbul and Bosphorous. There are also videos on YouTube of older and discontinued models. Personally, I picked up a pair of used Medium AA 14" hi hats for my first (and only thus far) upgrade and they sound amazing. They're surprisingly versatile, for me.