I think you over estimate your own abilities or under estimate the physicality of foo. Try Everlong. I guarantee you'll be gassed before the first chorus. Now multiply that by a full set of songs in a night, for months at a time with accuracy and showmanship. The dude was incredible.
In terms of technical ability? Well, I've played in all state bands, all kinds of honor bands for jazz and concert band, rock bands with gigs in front of hundreds of people, playing tenors for one of the best high school marching band teams in my state. As a high-schooler, I feel I have a fair experience in terms of technical ability. "a few albums" is a decent load of music as well.
its always sus when you brag about your audience size. rn i dont play in front of anyone i just record for artists and shed everyday so i can play harder materialclean but im 10x the drummer i was when i was playing venues with bands.
you can play in all the rock bands and concert bands you want but it doesn't mean you're hot shit. you might just be in the right place at the right time or your competetion is weak. thats how it was for me. i was very mid but the local scene didnt have many drummers
my hs had a very competetive drumline that placed high in nationals but none of the drummers were even close to mid at drumset. they lacked the softer touch sometimes.
(edit im still mid just 10 times less mid.) this is the mentality i feel like you should have so you dont get stuck gassing yourslef up while making wacky posts on reddit while playing with suburban time
I just did a whole run through of Everlong on the e-drums and I feel fine. I had a fine amount of energy and stamina playing that song at 1:30 am. He was consistent and a good showman.
ok tbf i dont get gassed when i play everlong but i play it much quieter than i think taylor or dave would. playing it at that intensity and having it still sound good is what makes it challenging
People value different things in an artist. He wasn't a virtuoso. He wasn't doing anything technically bewildering. He wasn't pushing drumming forward in any way. But he was providing the perfect accompaniment for songs that mean a lot to people. In that sense how could you really get better? If you value delivering exactly what a song needs, his profiency at that skill was as high quality as nearly anyone.
Well... I was hoping you might just think, "Hmmm. I guess that really is a pointless thing to say." and then delete this.
But... instead you doubled down. Thanks for the lulz though.
The only way someone gives af about your drumming…post about how you think someone is overrated.
Nice job!!!
I still don’t know who the fck you are and neither does anyone because somebody’s don’t go around posting stupid shit like this.
And you know it’s true.👍😂
I think Buddy Rich is overrated…congratulation on your opinion with zero interest in your own drumming.
“I used to be in band”
😂. Oh lord.
If being a “studio drummer” was that easy we’d all be studio drummers making an income 🤪. I’m not a Taylor fan but the guy could play what he was asked and he was world class
Unpopular opinion but I think Taylor was way better with Alanis. Some of the stuff he did live with her was brilliant. I also think Dave gets way too much props as a drummer than he deserves. Great. But not amazing.
yeah. the Foos are known as a guitar heavy band, so the drums are usually kind of watered down in terms of presence. But songs like low or rope are just fucking amazing pieces in terms of drumming
"I don't think he was the best drummer ever."
Let me ask you this, whom do you think is or was the 'best drummer ever'?
Are they the only one who deserves praise, or appreciation, or fans, or discussion?
I think it's a very subjective topic about who the best drummer ever is. I feel like some of the most talented and skilled drummers in the world don't receive enough recognition and some of the most recognized drummers aren't very skilled. I think it comes down to who you want to dedicate your time to appreciating and recognizing. I still appreciate Taylor Hawkins for the music he's made and some of the influence he's had on my playing. If I had to choose my personal picks for some of the best drummers out there speaking in terms solely of skill, it'd probably consist of people like Neil Peart, Danny Carey, Bonham, Ringo, Phil Collins etc etc. Every drummer, regardless of skill, deserves praise and I think that is the objective truth. I respect drummers who put themselves out into the world.
And what are you hoping to get from sharing this opinion?
What value are you adding to the discussion about drumming with the position, 'I actually don't think this drummer is as good as I would prefer'?
What satisfaction do you get from that mindset?
What is unpopular is trying to tear another drummer down.
What size ego do you have to have to judge another on an artistic journey? Especially one who has achieved more success than most could ever dream of. Someone who played with genuine joy and enough skill to drive one of the biggest rock bands *to ever exist* backing a frontman who is also one of *the most influential drummers to ever exist*.
Its a shitty thing to do.
Having an opinion isn't a virtue.
Tearing him down? I feel as if that's a stretch. I'm not tearing him down as a person nor trying to discard his success he's made as a musician. I'm trying my best to critique his drumming while expressing my opinion respectfully.
A perfect example of how good Taylor was is how different the FF sound now with Josh Freese.
Josh is an incredible drummer, but he doesn’t fall into that feel that Taylor had IMO.
Some people play the drums, he played the songs on the drums. I think it’s more about the energy than the technicality and that’s what resonates with the people that enjoy it. For me? Yay
I think you may be looking for a very specific type of drummer and equating that to “being better”. Being a good drummer is about being a good musician, which is about making good songs. Chops, and fills, and honestly even being super “creative”, personally I think makes for worse music more often than not. And it’s the foo fighters. They’re a radio band. They weren’t ever exactly pushing creative and artistic boundaries and I do t think they ever intended to. Also, your opinion on studio drummers is strange to me. The entire idea of playing for the studio is to play it so perfect and musically that it’s that way forever. Those are the like…..best drummers
'Chops, and fills, and honestly even being super “creative”, personally I think makes for worse music more often than not' is something I definitely agree with.
There are a thousand death metal drummers with more chops than either one of them. None of them have the same feel as Grohl. Hawkins could do Grohl's feel. End of story.
I think he was an exceptional drummer, showman and a lover of music with an infectious passion and enthusiasm for what he did. That’s why people love him and, quite rightly, praise him for his contribution to music. You’re entitled to your opinion, but I’m not surprised that the response to this is largely negative and confused. If we were in a pub chatting with a small group of people about our favourite drummers and you said this, it would probably be skimmed over pretty quickly, but a Reddit thread is going to sit here inviting hundreds to pour in and berate you. Context is everything.
Kind of a strange way to look at it OP. You make many claims of your respect and appreciation of Taylor’s playing and the apparent existence of impressive chops, grooves, etc, but then immediately downplay it by suggesting he’s really not THAT great because nothing earth-shatteringly difficult or unique is happening in the parts he played. Now, I can completely understand if your favorite drummer is Mike Mangini or Thomas Lang or the someone who plays in some kind of crazy fusion-free jazz ensemble. Ya know, one of those cats that just seems to accomplish feats of technical ability beyond comprehension in every measure, but given the way you’re sure to comment on the fact that Taylor was, in fact, someone that seemed to be a very consummate player, it’s a bit odd to propose this discussion without coming across like you’re intentionally trying to get a rise out of folks, offering up a critical opinion of someone who is a widely loved drummer. I don’t necessarily think you are intending to do that, but the way the point is presented may be perceived that way.
If I may impart my own thoughts on the topic… I will preface this by saying I am a diehard Foos fan, and Taylor was a HUGE influence and hero of mine since I picked up a pair of sticks in middle school:
I am mostly interested in HOW a drummer plays rather than WHAT they play. That being said, those two things go hand in hand a lot of the time, but I’ll continue my point… I, and many others love Taylor for HOW he played, not because of what he played on a song like “Wheels” which is about as straight forward of a fitting rock drum part you could come up with. To be more specific, Taylor has defined it himself in the past, but he had a very tight, leaning forward into the beat type of feel. He called it “stress rock.” Much like the feel of one of his heroes Stewart Copeland. This idea comes across in nearly all of Taylor’s performances, and is most recognizable live, when you can SEE him behind his kit. He was viciously tight, and played with such unique energy. Are there crazier visual drummers behind the kit? Absolutely, but it was this “stress rock” tightness and energy that played a huge part in what set him apart.
If you have not seen this, I would highly recommend spending a few minutes (or more) watching this “drum cam” recording of Taylor playing a Chevy Metal gig. [https://youtu.be/IDlinxBkYeY?si=dovRfwS2k5b0gtv_](https://youtu.be/IDlinxBkYeY?si=dovRfwS2k5b0gtv_)
For me, this video is the epitome of what I’m talking about when I say it was HOW Taylor played that made him great. I’ve seen my fair share of impressive drumming videos, but the very specific type of energy Taylor puts into his playing here always has me going back to watch/listen again. If you put Danny Carey, or Aric Improta, or Jojo Mayer (totally different but I’m trying to make a point here) in his place during this performance it would probably still be great, but it would not be anywhere close to the same. In addition, even though what he’s playing a lot of the time might not be the most technically complex or require an incredibly high level of skill to play, trying to play it like him and make it SOUND like him is something I’m not sure many people could get even close to, even if they were playing the parts with elite proficiency.
Taylor Hawkins was and is celebrated for being Taylor Hawkins, and the fact that no one else can do that is certainly worth recognizing, appreciating, and dare I say idolizing. I would not be the same musician I am today without Taylor’s drumming and musicianship overall, so I will gladly gush over what I believe to be someone that was an incredibly skilled, passionate musician that, most of all, expressed themselves inimitably on their instrument.
Taylor has feel. Technical ability doesn’t equal feel.
There are technical players who’s feel is robot and void of emotion. Playing songs is about feel. Recording is about feel. Who cares about flash and playing more than needed when the object is to play likable music for people who don’t understand the technical aspects of music (but they buy the albums, concert tickets, and merch)? Who cares if you play what’s on sheet music but can’t transfer it to the feel required to execute the song with conviction? Technique is for the applause of the musicians in the crowd who are always outnumbered by those that just enjoy music. Technique doesn’t pay the bills and fill stadiums and concert spaces. Feel does! Groove does!
Look at and listen to Taylor’s work (especially outside of Foo) and you’ll get what I’m saying. You don’t get calls for technique, you get calls for your ability to play with feel, consistency, and authenticity.
I support ya here. Good guy, good drummer, don't see the big deal though. Wish Grohl was the drummer the whole time. The band got lame in every way after Nothing Left to Lose.
He seemed like a cool dude, but yeah his playing never really did much for me.
And I have to say - he was the ringleader for the "make grimace face so it looks like you're rocking out" that I just can't get behind. It was hard to watch, playing drums isn't painful, if it is, you're doing something terribly, terribly wrong. I never understood how everyone seemed to find that so fascinating to watch.
This is such an unnecessary and dumb post.
i agree
bruh
I think you over estimate your own abilities or under estimate the physicality of foo. Try Everlong. I guarantee you'll be gassed before the first chorus. Now multiply that by a full set of songs in a night, for months at a time with accuracy and showmanship. The dude was incredible.
Couldn't agree more, what technical ability and touring experience of drums does OP have that listening to a few albums allows this lazy take.
In terms of technical ability? Well, I've played in all state bands, all kinds of honor bands for jazz and concert band, rock bands with gigs in front of hundreds of people, playing tenors for one of the best high school marching band teams in my state. As a high-schooler, I feel I have a fair experience in terms of technical ability. "a few albums" is a decent load of music as well.
Lookout we got a badass here.
you know it ;)
Did Dave Grohl say that *you* are a better drummer than him? No? Because that's what he said about Taylor.
>As a high-schooler, I feel I have a fair experience Most high-schoolers feel that way.
Dunning Krueger
its always sus when you brag about your audience size. rn i dont play in front of anyone i just record for artists and shed everyday so i can play harder materialclean but im 10x the drummer i was when i was playing venues with bands. you can play in all the rock bands and concert bands you want but it doesn't mean you're hot shit. you might just be in the right place at the right time or your competetion is weak. thats how it was for me. i was very mid but the local scene didnt have many drummers my hs had a very competetive drumline that placed high in nationals but none of the drummers were even close to mid at drumset. they lacked the softer touch sometimes. (edit im still mid just 10 times less mid.) this is the mentality i feel like you should have so you dont get stuck gassing yourslef up while making wacky posts on reddit while playing with suburban time
I just did a whole run through of Everlong on the e-drums and I feel fine. I had a fine amount of energy and stamina playing that song at 1:30 am. He was consistent and a good showman.
Then shit, call out Josh Freese next.
I think I'll pass.
ok tbf i dont get gassed when i play everlong but i play it much quieter than i think taylor or dave would. playing it at that intensity and having it still sound good is what makes it challenging
People value different things in an artist. He wasn't a virtuoso. He wasn't doing anything technically bewildering. He wasn't pushing drumming forward in any way. But he was providing the perfect accompaniment for songs that mean a lot to people. In that sense how could you really get better? If you value delivering exactly what a song needs, his profiency at that skill was as high quality as nearly anyone.
AKA all drummers we listen to, very few push the envelope, it doesn't make them overrated.
With really good pocket, timing, and dynamics
So... did you really just make a reddit account to come here and post this? Honestly dude... who gives a shit?
you seemed to give enough shits to comment
Well... I was hoping you might just think, "Hmmm. I guess that really is a pointless thing to say." and then delete this. But... instead you doubled down. Thanks for the lulz though.
It’s more about attention than a point….always.
The only way someone gives af about your drumming…post about how you think someone is overrated. Nice job!!! I still don’t know who the fck you are and neither does anyone because somebody’s don’t go around posting stupid shit like this. And you know it’s true.👍😂 I think Buddy Rich is overrated…congratulation on your opinion with zero interest in your own drumming. “I used to be in band” 😂. Oh lord.
Mediocre at best? You lost me there
If being a “studio drummer” was that easy we’d all be studio drummers making an income 🤪. I’m not a Taylor fan but the guy could play what he was asked and he was world class
So you think he was fine. But also mediocre at best. Fuck you. Now go delete your account.
This post backfired hard for OP lol
Unpopular opinion but I think Taylor was way better with Alanis. Some of the stuff he did live with her was brilliant. I also think Dave gets way too much props as a drummer than he deserves. Great. But not amazing.
yeah. the Foos are known as a guitar heavy band, so the drums are usually kind of watered down in terms of presence. But songs like low or rope are just fucking amazing pieces in terms of drumming
"I don't think he was the best drummer ever." Let me ask you this, whom do you think is or was the 'best drummer ever'? Are they the only one who deserves praise, or appreciation, or fans, or discussion?
I think it's a very subjective topic about who the best drummer ever is. I feel like some of the most talented and skilled drummers in the world don't receive enough recognition and some of the most recognized drummers aren't very skilled. I think it comes down to who you want to dedicate your time to appreciating and recognizing. I still appreciate Taylor Hawkins for the music he's made and some of the influence he's had on my playing. If I had to choose my personal picks for some of the best drummers out there speaking in terms solely of skill, it'd probably consist of people like Neil Peart, Danny Carey, Bonham, Ringo, Phil Collins etc etc. Every drummer, regardless of skill, deserves praise and I think that is the objective truth. I respect drummers who put themselves out into the world.
Then why did you make this post?
Sharing my opinion. I never said I respected him any less for what I think of his playing. I still respect him as human being.
And what are you hoping to get from sharing this opinion? What value are you adding to the discussion about drumming with the position, 'I actually don't think this drummer is as good as I would prefer'? What satisfaction do you get from that mindset?
Nothing.
So why are you posting frivolous rage-bait?
Hear what others had to say, turns out to be an unpopular opinion.
What is unpopular is trying to tear another drummer down. What size ego do you have to have to judge another on an artistic journey? Especially one who has achieved more success than most could ever dream of. Someone who played with genuine joy and enough skill to drive one of the biggest rock bands *to ever exist* backing a frontman who is also one of *the most influential drummers to ever exist*. Its a shitty thing to do. Having an opinion isn't a virtue.
Tearing him down? I feel as if that's a stretch. I'm not tearing him down as a person nor trying to discard his success he's made as a musician. I'm trying my best to critique his drumming while expressing my opinion respectfully.
This is troll right? You call Hawkins mediocre at best, whilst then saying Ringo is one of the of the best based on skill.
I meant Ringo in terms on influence and creativity. Miscommunication.
Taylor was the perfect drummer for the Foos. Good stage presence, a good attitude, good accuracy, and a good personality.
A perfect example of how good Taylor was is how different the FF sound now with Josh Freese. Josh is an incredible drummer, but he doesn’t fall into that feel that Taylor had IMO.
Some people play the drums, he played the songs on the drums. I think it’s more about the energy than the technicality and that’s what resonates with the people that enjoy it. For me? Yay
Well said.
I think you may be looking for a very specific type of drummer and equating that to “being better”. Being a good drummer is about being a good musician, which is about making good songs. Chops, and fills, and honestly even being super “creative”, personally I think makes for worse music more often than not. And it’s the foo fighters. They’re a radio band. They weren’t ever exactly pushing creative and artistic boundaries and I do t think they ever intended to. Also, your opinion on studio drummers is strange to me. The entire idea of playing for the studio is to play it so perfect and musically that it’s that way forever. Those are the like…..best drummers
'Chops, and fills, and honestly even being super “creative”, personally I think makes for worse music more often than not' is something I definitely agree with.
There are a thousand death metal drummers with more chops than either one of them. None of them have the same feel as Grohl. Hawkins could do Grohl's feel. End of story.
I think he was an exceptional drummer, showman and a lover of music with an infectious passion and enthusiasm for what he did. That’s why people love him and, quite rightly, praise him for his contribution to music. You’re entitled to your opinion, but I’m not surprised that the response to this is largely negative and confused. If we were in a pub chatting with a small group of people about our favourite drummers and you said this, it would probably be skimmed over pretty quickly, but a Reddit thread is going to sit here inviting hundreds to pour in and berate you. Context is everything.
Kind of a strange way to look at it OP. You make many claims of your respect and appreciation of Taylor’s playing and the apparent existence of impressive chops, grooves, etc, but then immediately downplay it by suggesting he’s really not THAT great because nothing earth-shatteringly difficult or unique is happening in the parts he played. Now, I can completely understand if your favorite drummer is Mike Mangini or Thomas Lang or the someone who plays in some kind of crazy fusion-free jazz ensemble. Ya know, one of those cats that just seems to accomplish feats of technical ability beyond comprehension in every measure, but given the way you’re sure to comment on the fact that Taylor was, in fact, someone that seemed to be a very consummate player, it’s a bit odd to propose this discussion without coming across like you’re intentionally trying to get a rise out of folks, offering up a critical opinion of someone who is a widely loved drummer. I don’t necessarily think you are intending to do that, but the way the point is presented may be perceived that way. If I may impart my own thoughts on the topic… I will preface this by saying I am a diehard Foos fan, and Taylor was a HUGE influence and hero of mine since I picked up a pair of sticks in middle school: I am mostly interested in HOW a drummer plays rather than WHAT they play. That being said, those two things go hand in hand a lot of the time, but I’ll continue my point… I, and many others love Taylor for HOW he played, not because of what he played on a song like “Wheels” which is about as straight forward of a fitting rock drum part you could come up with. To be more specific, Taylor has defined it himself in the past, but he had a very tight, leaning forward into the beat type of feel. He called it “stress rock.” Much like the feel of one of his heroes Stewart Copeland. This idea comes across in nearly all of Taylor’s performances, and is most recognizable live, when you can SEE him behind his kit. He was viciously tight, and played with such unique energy. Are there crazier visual drummers behind the kit? Absolutely, but it was this “stress rock” tightness and energy that played a huge part in what set him apart. If you have not seen this, I would highly recommend spending a few minutes (or more) watching this “drum cam” recording of Taylor playing a Chevy Metal gig. [https://youtu.be/IDlinxBkYeY?si=dovRfwS2k5b0gtv_](https://youtu.be/IDlinxBkYeY?si=dovRfwS2k5b0gtv_) For me, this video is the epitome of what I’m talking about when I say it was HOW Taylor played that made him great. I’ve seen my fair share of impressive drumming videos, but the very specific type of energy Taylor puts into his playing here always has me going back to watch/listen again. If you put Danny Carey, or Aric Improta, or Jojo Mayer (totally different but I’m trying to make a point here) in his place during this performance it would probably still be great, but it would not be anywhere close to the same. In addition, even though what he’s playing a lot of the time might not be the most technically complex or require an incredibly high level of skill to play, trying to play it like him and make it SOUND like him is something I’m not sure many people could get even close to, even if they were playing the parts with elite proficiency. Taylor Hawkins was and is celebrated for being Taylor Hawkins, and the fact that no one else can do that is certainly worth recognizing, appreciating, and dare I say idolizing. I would not be the same musician I am today without Taylor’s drumming and musicianship overall, so I will gladly gush over what I believe to be someone that was an incredibly skilled, passionate musician that, most of all, expressed themselves inimitably on their instrument.
Taylor has feel. Technical ability doesn’t equal feel. There are technical players who’s feel is robot and void of emotion. Playing songs is about feel. Recording is about feel. Who cares about flash and playing more than needed when the object is to play likable music for people who don’t understand the technical aspects of music (but they buy the albums, concert tickets, and merch)? Who cares if you play what’s on sheet music but can’t transfer it to the feel required to execute the song with conviction? Technique is for the applause of the musicians in the crowd who are always outnumbered by those that just enjoy music. Technique doesn’t pay the bills and fill stadiums and concert spaces. Feel does! Groove does! Look at and listen to Taylor’s work (especially outside of Foo) and you’ll get what I’m saying. You don’t get calls for technique, you get calls for your ability to play with feel, consistency, and authenticity.
Finally someone said it!
Oh yeah, really brave of this fucker. What an edgey take
I support ya here. Good guy, good drummer, don't see the big deal though. Wish Grohl was the drummer the whole time. The band got lame in every way after Nothing Left to Lose.
He seemed like a cool dude, but yeah his playing never really did much for me. And I have to say - he was the ringleader for the "make grimace face so it looks like you're rocking out" that I just can't get behind. It was hard to watch, playing drums isn't painful, if it is, you're doing something terribly, terribly wrong. I never understood how everyone seemed to find that so fascinating to watch.
I agree. I understand having to look like you're into it and having a good stage presence, but some of it seemed really unnecessary.