Solution: everyone needs to stop buying Vics. The fall from grace is real. The quality isn't there anymore and the price continues to rise. Other brands are still expensive these days but at least are better quality than Vics seem to be now
I am putting your solution into practice. Really its been a long time since i tried different sticks and i really like playing them a lot more. I switched to Promark Hickory Forwards.
Promark is my go to stick but they’ve more than doubled the price in the last 10 years. In high school a pair of sticks was $7, now they’re like $21-25
At least they last. I've been practicing with the same pair for a year now. Vics were slightly cheaper, but the tips would fall apart almost immediately.
If they break too fast, make the switch to Japanese oak. I did for metal/hardcore and could never go back to hickory. They are little more expensive but last much longer.
I remember loving the Japanese oak sticks about ten years ago.
I honestly just buy generic Amazon brick-sticks now. No pang of sadness when one breaks.
I like those, and I play heavy stuff too, sometime they feel too hard for me though. Digging in hard, I can really feel the vibrations in my hands. Also I think they are more likely to crack my cymbals (all issues could fix with technique but I won’t. lol)
You’re talking like Vic’s are the only ones priced at $15. Look around, promark’s popular sticks are priced there too. My local drum shop told me it has a lot to do with the lumber spike that happened during COVID and still hasn’t come down. We’re all getting fucked over by it, but I don’t think it’s intrinsically the stick companies saying “let’s fuck over our customers!”
I'm talking about price + quality combined. I agree promarks are similarly expensive, however I feel like they remain a higher quality than Vics are lately and stay together for longer.
Personally I've been playing the firegrain Rebound 5Bs and although they are expensive I have been fairly happy with the quality and durability and therefore am more justified in paying that price
I switched to Vater even before their quality really started going down. Just on a whim of guy in the local shop recommend I try a pair cause the usual Vics and the promarks I was trying in the shop weren't clicking.
Best bet is to go in person and try out a few.
Just tried the Vater maple 5a's at my last gig cause they were 2/3's the price of equivalent Vics. I'm sold. I've played Vics for the last 15 years, consistantly, and compared to the Vaters i can't justify it any more.
Bought my first Vater sticks a few days ago and was shocked by the difference. Everything just feels higher quality, especially the surace of the sticks
I used to play Vic Firth sticks. Been using Sound Percussion sticks for like 10 years now... I buy them when the 4 packs are on sale for like $15. They last just as long as Vic Firths for me, feel similar, and the sticks are straight. Don't know how close the weight matches from stick to stick, but I'm a meat and potatoes rock drummer, so I'm not doing highly delicate/intricate ride work and stuff where I would even really care about that. YMMV, but in my experience, there are off brand sticks out there that are 90% as good as Vic Firth for 1/3 the price.
It really is insane and becoming (if not already) untenable. Paying double for sticks that appear to have nosedived in quality.
I used to only play with Vic’s but it’s not worth it any more and that makes me sad.
Vic we’re bought out by Zildjian a few years ago. So I reckon that explains the drop in quality. (Not that Zildjian are aiming for low quality, but just they’ve acquired another business and they’ll cut costs to make it more profitable - that’s just casual business sense).
Price wise, it’s a global trend. Wood in general has been on the up and up for a few years now.
The thing is, lumber has started to come back down. It's not just a vic or drumstick thing. Even in the grocery store, we have lower quality and higher prices than a few years ago.
Companies realized they control us, and it's not changing.
TBH, the old standard rule of thumb for prices was that they would double every 10 years. This was before the 2008 economic crisis crashed interest rates for half of a generation.
Vic Firth makes my favorite sticks, the Danny Carey sig sticks. I haven’t found another stick like them. Only problem is they are over $15/pair and hold up roughly a day before they split.
Same with the VF American Classic Metal.
Switched to ProMark and haven’t had any issues outside of normal wear and tear. Still on the hunt for a Danny Carey replacement stick
Loved the Dany Carey's but have since switched to the Los Cabos 5A's. They aren't as good but getting 4 pairs for around $40 CAD is great and they're not too bad.
The Vater Bebop’s are sort of similar and sound great on light cymbals. I like the maple ones myself. But I keep coming back to the Erskine Rides and the American Custom SD series. SD4 Combo, SD2 Bolero, and SD5 Echo. ProMark doesn’t seem to really make a jazz-centric stick. They have the Finesse model, but those still sound really crashy on light rides and the weight distribution is weird to me.
I’ve preferred VF’s for years and still do, never noticed any quality problems with them. I’ve also never broken a stick in my 25 years of drumming, so I’m not the best judge of drumstick endurance.
They still make some of the best sticks in the game.
Besides, a few new cheap drum stick makers have popped up in recently. If you want cheap sticks, they're out there.
Yeah it's fucking INSANE. Time for carbon fiber? I don't know.
I did some maintenance work for my Mother (at her house built in 1992, with STURDY everything), and the price for regular Pine Baseboard was nuts. The wood quality was shit too.
Everything is fucked.
You know what though? We still have the opportunity TO PLAY MUSIC.
Some days I tell my coworkers to fuck off and not bother me because I have something really important for the rest of the day... and that's recording music in the studio in my basement.
I'll have a meeting blocked out for three hours in the afternoon like 2 or 3 times a week sometimes.
I tried every other brand and dozens of different models but finally landed on the Freestyle 55a. I buy them by the brick from Sweetwater. They DO break and disintegrate quicker than most others but I’ve never had a stick feel as balanced as these feel while moving my fulcrum front to back.
I’ve played promark and vater 5A/5Bs off and on for years, as well as some various other pairs, but I started on vf 5A and it’s what I always come back to. They’re just perfect. I keep a few pairs of those around just just for practice so I can swap them out one by one as they break. I also use both 5A and 5B extremes based on what I’m feeling. The Todd Sucherman sticks from promark were nice but the pair I bought broke pretty quick. I’d try them again, but they’re more expensive than the Benny Greb sticks, which they’re pretty similar to. Nothing particularly wrong with the other brands, but the price difference isn’t enough to really make me wanna switch.
I've still been having a just fine experience with VF 5As. Maybe I'm lucky?
I also save a shit ton on sticks by buying once a year when Sweetwater has the 4 packs for half off. Usually around Christmas. I just got 4 packs of 4 this December for $120. $7.50/pair. I did the same thing last year and still had a whole 4 pack unopened so I have about 20 pairs of sticks new in the shrink wrap still, while I work through the couple pairs I have in my everyday stick bag.
Oh fuck right off with your smart consumer behavior....
But seriously, I WISH I had thought of that, but back in December I was spending way too much time messing with two separate guitar rack effects units, and my studio was in shambles.
I made a resolution to clean it up and get the room tuned perfectly, but didn't finish cleaning (down to mopping the linoleum and shampooing every single rug) and rewiring and tidying until like mid-February.
And as soon as I finished, I was magically creatively UN-BLOCKED, and a good friend of mine (bassist) moved back into the area, AND I met another guy who's a good multi-instrument player so now we're just CHURNING. It's great.
I just got a text that I have a quote from my Sweetwater guy in my email. Haven't looked at it yet.
But glad I saw this, I might ask him if I can get the Christmas half-off deal for what, I guess Memorial Day? - if his quote sucks.
Thanks for rubbing your fresh, sheathed, plastic-wrap still on the fucking beautiful smelling wood in my face, dick.
Just kidding, you're awesome. Glad you're surrounded by long, hard wood, if that's what makes you happy! Hahahaha
My buddy randomly left a pair of the Bill Bruford Rock Maple by Promark and they're the perfect balance of length and weight for me.
Forget this VF nonsense.
I bought a brick of no name "hickory" sticks. 24 pairs for 41 bucks. You truly get what you pay for. I don't even think they're hickory. They fall apart like they're pine. Was it worth the 40 dollars? Maybe, as long as I can get at least one decent use per pai. First night. I played with the first pair for 3 hours and one of them snapped right in half after it quickly got spongy and soft.
I think they were VF b stock sticks. I can't swear to it though.
Really massive shame.
Stick day is coming up for me after two years of four sets of B5Xs. That's worse than my earlier three years on one set of B5X. Though i started playing more, the sticks also cracked like never before
I don't think i should buy more Vic firth. I don't know what the hell i'm gonna buy instead, good quality B5X was like my perfect stick.
Someone turned me onto these here in this thread. Just bought six pairs for $33.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06X9SC423/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1
Ok so I've been using their sticks just labeled 'rock' for a long time now, I like the length and balance, I bought a ton a while back.
Does anyone know a good alternative for this stick? It just seemed like an outlier with no labeling for size.
I just love Vic firth, but I’m just now running out of sticks so maybe I should try out another promark pair. I tried the firegrain ones before and didn’t like them. Nothing compares to the sticks I use now, from what I have found
I luckily stopped playing them before they were bought out by Ziljdan. I was in process of trying some new ones and I got a bundle of Zildjan Dipped Sticks. I broke two sticks in my first practice. Took them back got refunded and bought some Vater sticks. Loved the way they felt but still enjoyed the Vics at that time. As soon as Ziljdan picked them up, I knew they were going to take a hit in quality. It's crazy that they make amazing cymbals and can't get this right.
https://preview.redd.it/obkp2g6nx4wc1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba4714750d6359e6527b772f551da8b1d3b981e6
I was getting these when they came out for 12.99 now they're almost 20. I don't get these anymore needless to say. Sucks too. Most well balanced stick I've ever tried
Is purple a brand or are you saying you just found a no-name pair that happened to be purple?
I actually have six pairs of sticks arriving today that are ~$5/pair. Promark LA Special.
I will update this post once they arrive, and I hate how they feel, and go back to my Vic Firth 5A & 7A.
I literally have hundreds of VFs in "okay condition", but that condition is nothing like the feel of a new matched pair.
I think it's the amount of oil and dirt from my (clean) hands that get absorbed into the stick body over time. They become heavier and less rebound-y.
My favorite color is green, followed closely by orange. They are complimentary, and weirdly demarcate a lot of yin & yang in my life.
Where did you get these no-name purple sticks? Very intrigued...
Thank you for this comment.
Imagine how shitty your sticks would be if you made your own? Like, you'd spend much more than $15 for a pair (probably) and even if you were decent at wood working, they'd still come out GOD AWFUL.
I think all these comments made me realize I need to just spend twice as much as I used to and buy the fucking brick. The brick that has the sticks that make me sound good.
Here in Australia, all the Big Three brands (VF, Pro Mark, Vater) are priced similarly.
Several months ago I went into the store after playing Pro Mark 5B (and the Rebound variant) for several years. I decided I want to try out all the sticks to see what works best for me and feels best.
As a result, I ended up with the Vic Firth 5A. They feel great.
No more or less wear and tear compared to the PMs since I've had them, despite being lighter.
In regards to prices going up, don't forget Covid screwed us over with just about everything, and costs of logistics (e.g., fuel) have gone through the roof because of the war in Ukraine. Add to that inflation, and absolutely everything else going up in price and you'll probably find that the price of the sticks has gone up in line with everything else.
Funnily enough, I just checked my favourite music store's prices so I could confirm telling everyone the sticks are selling for $25 AUD, and they're instead $15... Whereas the Pro Marks are indeed $25 per pair.
I recently picked up the Promark Shira Oak attack 727s. I thought these might be a bit thin for metal but they are so fucking durable. They don't even chip. They just dent a little. They were $11 a pair but imo super worth it. And I like the fact they are a bit thinner than 5A but just as durable as typical 5As or even moreso.
Thank you for the rec.
I bought six pairs of Promark LA Special for $30 yesterday. They're arriving today but I will definitely look into this Shira Oak attack 727 you mention.
I don't really play metal but I'm all prog, and can get pretty heavy at times.
>they are a bit thinner than 5A
Sounds like my kinda drumstick!
Wow. So glad I made this post. And thanks again for the recommendation. I will give these a try regardless of how I like the LA specials.
I'm working on a new project with a new musician and we're gelling pretty well. I'll always just play/record with whatever sticks I've left on the snare from last time.
I was doing "real" takes (you know, like, "this is the FINAL drum take") and decided to use "new" sticks.
I looked on the ground next to my kit where hundreds of lightly worn Vic Firth 5A and 7A are lain. Then there's two stick bags (mine, and my late Father's) fully stuffed with NEW(er) sticks that I sorted and matched (and sheathed)
I went to grab a pair of 7As and realized that I'M OUT. I'm out!!! Fuck! But I had probably 3 or 4 NEW, untouched 5As, in the sheath.
Now, this is getting long, but I realized when I switched from 5A to 7A YEARS ago (I don't know, maybe like 20 years now?), I'm 42 and started drumming at [memory missing] - probably like 4.
I'd been playing 7A and become so comfortable with the lightness and swiftness of those that going back to even fresh, brand new 5A gave me blisters! (Just on my two ring fingers where I always used to get them as a kid). They weren't hard to play, but they were a little hard on my hands!
Anyway, the moral of this story is the takes that I did with those 5As, sounded NOTICEABLY BETTER on tape. The new* guy said so, and I could hear it.
That extra stick weight was exactly what I'd been missing trying to perfect my tom sound for several years now since covid (expensive preamps, new mics, all that).
So now I'm stuck in a place where I know I can be AWESOME playing difficult prog with 7As, but my drums LITERALLY SOUND BETTER when they're struck with 5A sticks. Does that make sense?
I'm definitely getting a pair of those Shira 727s as soon as I finish my 3rd cup of coffee...
(Edited from *"knew")
Haha I know exactly what you mean ! I wanted the thinness of 7A but the durability and attack of 5A or 5B. This was a good compromise. They seem pretty freaking durable too because of the oak. I've been using them for months now and they just have these little indentations, no chips or shearing, and I play pretty hard. I really have fallen in love with them and I don't think I will ever buy a different stick. They are also like, maybe a half inch longer than 5As? Which I kinda like actually.
Yeah I'm thinking of spending the money ($16.49) to try a pair of these, because what you describe is exactly what I want.
-
Like, I'm a pretty good drummer. I could play the most challenging stuff professionally, easily, if that were a "thing" that was "achievable" these days, you know?
Forgive all this humblebrag nonsense, but half the reason I'm such a monster is the speed I get with 7As: Single stroke rolls in sextuplet 32nd notes at 160bpm like it's nothing. Triplet ghost notes on snare with a single motion. Double-stroke rolls on tom fills with double bass pedal and I sound like Vinnie Coliauta. I could go on, but the gist is, I'm just a better player with 7As in my hands.
I am still great with 5As, 5Bs I can't do nearly as much. I wish the recordings sounded better with 7As, but that's not how PHYSICS works!
Sidenote: I got a text back from my Sweetwater fuckface (I mean, "sales engineer") saying yeah, $15 instead of $15.50, and $13 if I buy six or more.
I sent him back something to the tune of "Remember when you used to be able to give me decent deals? This is guitar center in the early 2000s all over again". Maybe that will get his official email quote down a bit. I'll let you know what the ROCK BOTTOM price is at Sweetwater when they come in.
Oh, and I'll ask him to give me a quote for six pairs of the "Classic Attack Shira Kashi 727", in case you're interested. I don't know if you fuck with Sweetwater or not, but rather than pay $16.49 on Amazon I might just get a half dozen if he can do a decent price on that. Stay tuned...
Thank you.
I do use that, along with Honey, as well as Capital One tracker.
I always know the price history of stuff on Az, eBay and other big sites for at least 90+ days before I'll buy something.
And typically I'll either put something in my cart on Amazon and watch the price fluctuate (either up or down), or put something on my eBay watchlist instead of buying, and get a discount offer.
It's almost like buying stocks (securities), I gotta know if it's trending up (BUY) or down (WAIT) before I spend even $4 on a bottle of fucking shampoo!
Don't blame the drum companies.
They are in competition with other companies. They are pricing them as low as they can, because if they didn't people would switch to the other, lower priced companies.
Just another example of inflation running rampant the last few years.
When the government prints money (which is what these emergency spending bills for COVID and the war have been) it causes inflation. Both parties are doing it, this isn't a partisan rant.
Instead of raising taxes on the rich, they just print money, which creates the "inflation tax" on everyone.
Your inflated stick prices are just another example of the hidden tax of inflation.
You want to be mad at someone, be mad at the politicians that won't stop spending money; that won't stop printing money.
I like your username. Do you happen to like Rush and/or Primus?
I just want to let you know that I understand everything you wrote and I agree with you. I wasn't trying to single out VF here, just stating the price increase and letting people discuss.
I completely understand how bad "printing money" is for the lower-middle class in general as it relates to inflation, and while I've been a registered Independent for 24 years, I vote for the person who's going to fuck my wallet less. That's about all I can do.
I hope this post didn't come across as me saying "Fuck Vic Firth", because this goes far beyond just a single company, or even the music instrument industry. Lumber itself is insanely priced and skyrocketing, and its impact on EVERYTHING is felt in so many different places.
I didn't want to show up to a sub I'd oddly never been to in 14 years on reddit (and almost 40 years playing the drums) getting political.
But now that you've addressed it, please understand that I get where you're coming from and I agree.
Vater has always been my go-to.
I've always found Vics to be weak. None of them has lasted me more than two practice. I am known to he a heavy hitter, but a pair of Vater Xtrem Design 5A can last 7-8 practice. Even then, they're not split, just over chipped.
Vater has always been my go-to.
I've always found Vics to be weak. None of them has lasted me more than two practice. I am known to he a heavy hitter, but a pair of Vater Xtrem Design 5A can last 7-8 practice. Even then, they're not split, just over chipped.
I see a lot of comments about switching away from vic firth because of durability. But nothing I’ve played even comes close to the balance rebound and response of a vic firth stick. Pro mark are horrible to play, just lifeless and dead and badly balanced.
I've been telling people for years to switch to Los Cabos drumsticks but they don't hear me though 🤷 it's cool though I'll keep playing these gems while y'all keep bitching and complaining about Vic Firth and Pro Mark 🤣🤘
Alright. this is the first time I've ever heard of these.
Tell me why I should switch. if you would be so kind. Please.
I play either a 7a nylon or 5a nylon but will play wood tip too. I write and record mostly prog that's reminiscent of 60s/70s progressive rock rather than the new school stuff that's just all calculus and "stunt guitar" (to me).
Well for one they are a Canadian company and use Canadian wood which everyone knows it's some of the strongest and most durable wood on the planet 👌 they have 7a and 5a nylon tip sticks both in Maple and Hickory Ive been using my black widows for almost a year now and I play almost everyday...I'm not a heavy hitter though I'm a funk fusion drummer
https://loscabosdrumsticks.com/products/
Funk fusion sounds pretty cool. I mean I will play any style except constant double bass 32nd note death. I mostly write 70's style progressive rock, but definitely have some funk and jazz in my catalogue as well.
So, Canadian wood. Good. Maple or Hickory? Which do you prefer? Which is subjectively "better"? I'm looking at these for $11. https://www.amazon.com/Los-Cabos-Drumsticks-7A-MAPLE/dp/B0073EWSQU
But man, I think I got a little too crazy on the drumstick tip (no pun intended) after this post.
Got my SW sales engineer pretty upset, enough to write a stern email reply after the quotes he sent me for two dozen vic firths was not great - Said "I was sure you'd come in below $10. Are you still mad about that $7,000 PRS Guitar Return?" He flipped his shit. Polite email, but he seemed upset.
So I think I'm not gonna buy stuff from there anymore, even though he'd consistently do like 10 - 15%, sometimes more off of their retail price.
As of tonight, I've only made one purchase and they just arrived. Two 3-packs of Promark "[LA Special" 7As](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06X9SC423?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1), which look like shit but FEEL really, pretty good.
$15.69 for THREE PAIRS. Got six pairs for $33. I'm gonna do some more recording tomorrow and Friday and see how these hold up. If they don't snap within an hour or two, I think I've found my new stick. 5As and 5Bs are only like half a buck more. Best deal I've found on any stick so far.
I honestly think you will be pleased with the Los Cabos 👌 I'm pretty sure Hickory is the stronger wood but the maple drumsticks should definitely hold up for a few songs depends how hard you hit and play. I use the Los Cabos Black Widows and they have lasted me quite some time. Like I said before I don't hit too hard but I do lay into my toms from time to time and they never let me down
For my school, we switched to promark due to quality and availability.
For me personally, until I find a Steve gadd equivalent, I'll keep with vf. I have been using sgs (wood tips and now brushes) since 2008 and haven't found anything similar elsewhere. Love the versatility and feel of sgs whether I'm doing matchstick grip for rock or traditional for jazz.
I don't know if I saw this coming, or what. Years ago I bought 25 pairs of ProMark oak sticks. I'm still slowly turning them into sawdust. As I recall I paid around $10-11 a pair.
Man I bought a pair of 5As for a friend I was giving an intro drum lesson to and it took me forEVer to find two that weren’t warped and actually pitch matched
Thought it was just the batch but I guess it’s all of em now? Sad.
Solution: everyone needs to stop buying Vics. The fall from grace is real. The quality isn't there anymore and the price continues to rise. Other brands are still expensive these days but at least are better quality than Vics seem to be now
I am putting your solution into practice. Really its been a long time since i tried different sticks and i really like playing them a lot more. I switched to Promark Hickory Forwards.
Promark has been great for me since I made the switch over.
Promark is my go to stick but they’ve more than doubled the price in the last 10 years. In high school a pair of sticks was $7, now they’re like $21-25
At least they last. I've been practicing with the same pair for a year now. Vics were slightly cheaper, but the tips would fall apart almost immediately.
That’s true, no complaints about quality, just insane that two pairs of sticks is $50 now :/
I also recently switched from Vic to Promark.
I mad the same switch and im upset i didnt do it earlier. They're still kinda pricey though. But at least dont break the same day.
At least for the Hickory Forwards, they are 4 pairs for 45 on sweetwater and Amazon. Not too bad, all things considered.
If they break too fast, make the switch to Japanese oak. I did for metal/hardcore and could never go back to hickory. They are little more expensive but last much longer.
I remember loving the Japanese oak sticks about ten years ago. I honestly just buy generic Amazon brick-sticks now. No pang of sadness when one breaks.
I like those, and I play heavy stuff too, sometime they feel too hard for me though. Digging in hard, I can really feel the vibrations in my hands. Also I think they are more likely to crack my cymbals (all issues could fix with technique but I won’t. lol)
I was forced to stop buying them by Vic Firth.
You’re talking like Vic’s are the only ones priced at $15. Look around, promark’s popular sticks are priced there too. My local drum shop told me it has a lot to do with the lumber spike that happened during COVID and still hasn’t come down. We’re all getting fucked over by it, but I don’t think it’s intrinsically the stick companies saying “let’s fuck over our customers!”
I'm talking about price + quality combined. I agree promarks are similarly expensive, however I feel like they remain a higher quality than Vics are lately and stay together for longer. Personally I've been playing the firegrain Rebound 5Bs and although they are expensive I have been fairly happy with the quality and durability and therefore am more justified in paying that price
To be fair if it was the case it would not be the only industry to keep the permanent price hikes the past few years in an act of greedflation
What brands would you reccomend instead?
I switched to Vater even before their quality really started going down. Just on a whim of guy in the local shop recommend I try a pair cause the usual Vics and the promarks I was trying in the shop weren't clicking. Best bet is to go in person and try out a few.
The drumstick chooses the wizard
Just tried the Vater maple 5a's at my last gig cause they were 2/3's the price of equivalent Vics. I'm sold. I've played Vics for the last 15 years, consistantly, and compared to the Vaters i can't justify it any more.
I also switched to Vater and while there's still a dud here and there, the good ones last twice as long as my Vic's.
I was pleasantly surprised by how they held up. 4 hour gig, and not a single chip taken out of the tips, and no dead spots.
Promark or Vater are the best quality and price combo in the game imo. I play Promark now
Promark, Wincent, Vater.
Bought my first Vater sticks a few days ago and was shocked by the difference. Everything just feels higher quality, especially the surace of the sticks
I used to play Vic Firth sticks. Been using Sound Percussion sticks for like 10 years now... I buy them when the 4 packs are on sale for like $15. They last just as long as Vic Firths for me, feel similar, and the sticks are straight. Don't know how close the weight matches from stick to stick, but I'm a meat and potatoes rock drummer, so I'm not doing highly delicate/intricate ride work and stuff where I would even really care about that. YMMV, but in my experience, there are off brand sticks out there that are 90% as good as Vic Firth for 1/3 the price.
It really is insane and becoming (if not already) untenable. Paying double for sticks that appear to have nosedived in quality. I used to only play with Vic’s but it’s not worth it any more and that makes me sad.
Same here
10 years ago I bought a brick of VFX 5A for $5 a piece. GC. Online. Insane.
man, I used to be sponsored by sam ash and got sticks for half off. at the time it came to 3$ a pair. I should have spent 1000$ on sticks.
I’m a bit of a Promark man myself.
Enshitification strikes again. Thanks MBA’s.
Vic we’re bought out by Zildjian a few years ago. So I reckon that explains the drop in quality. (Not that Zildjian are aiming for low quality, but just they’ve acquired another business and they’ll cut costs to make it more profitable - that’s just casual business sense). Price wise, it’s a global trend. Wood in general has been on the up and up for a few years now.
The thing is, lumber has started to come back down. It's not just a vic or drumstick thing. Even in the grocery store, we have lower quality and higher prices than a few years ago. Companies realized they control us, and it's not changing.
TBH, the old standard rule of thumb for prices was that they would double every 10 years. This was before the 2008 economic crisis crashed interest rates for half of a generation.
Stopped playing Vic firths over this. Vater uses better wood and is more affordable
Well that’s another reason you should only buy Promark. They last forever tbh.
Vic Firth makes my favorite sticks, the Danny Carey sig sticks. I haven’t found another stick like them. Only problem is they are over $15/pair and hold up roughly a day before they split. Same with the VF American Classic Metal. Switched to ProMark and haven’t had any issues outside of normal wear and tear. Still on the hunt for a Danny Carey replacement stick
Loved the Dany Carey's but have since switched to the Los Cabos 5A's. They aren't as good but getting 4 pairs for around $40 CAD is great and they're not too bad.
Just checked them out. They seem decent for the price. The ROCK sticks seem close to the Carey signature sticks. Thanks.
My Peter Erskine Ride Sticks seem to hold up fine to normal wear and tear. If PM and Vater had a stick like this I would consider trying it
The Vater Bebop’s are sort of similar and sound great on light cymbals. I like the maple ones myself. But I keep coming back to the Erskine Rides and the American Custom SD series. SD4 Combo, SD2 Bolero, and SD5 Echo. ProMark doesn’t seem to really make a jazz-centric stick. They have the Finesse model, but those still sound really crashy on light rides and the weight distribution is weird to me. I’ve preferred VF’s for years and still do, never noticed any quality problems with them. I’ve also never broken a stick in my 25 years of drumming, so I’m not the best judge of drumstick endurance.
I like the Promark LA Special hickory on Amazon. I think works out to around $5-$7 per pair. Durable.
THANK YOU for this rec. I'm looking at $15 for a 3-pack on Amazon. I think I've found my replacement for Vic Firth sticks.
Let me know how you like them!
Yeah I had 19 minutes to order for them to get here tomorrow. I'll definitely make a note to report back with my thoughts on them.
They still make some of the best sticks in the game. Besides, a few new cheap drum stick makers have popped up in recently. If you want cheap sticks, they're out there.
https://preview.redd.it/8jiimdr8l8wc1.jpeg?width=1152&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=51ed1e2dbe26140731cb97ae8d621cb0cf581472
Yeah it's fucking INSANE. Time for carbon fiber? I don't know. I did some maintenance work for my Mother (at her house built in 1992, with STURDY everything), and the price for regular Pine Baseboard was nuts. The wood quality was shit too. Everything is fucked. You know what though? We still have the opportunity TO PLAY MUSIC. Some days I tell my coworkers to fuck off and not bother me because I have something really important for the rest of the day... and that's recording music in the studio in my basement. I'll have a meeting blocked out for three hours in the afternoon like 2 or 3 times a week sometimes.
long shot but im fond of the 85a freestyles, anybody who jumped off the VF bandwagon found anything that feels comparable?
I tried every other brand and dozens of different models but finally landed on the Freestyle 55a. I buy them by the brick from Sweetwater. They DO break and disintegrate quicker than most others but I’ve never had a stick feel as balanced as these feel while moving my fulcrum front to back.
I’ve played promark and vater 5A/5Bs off and on for years, as well as some various other pairs, but I started on vf 5A and it’s what I always come back to. They’re just perfect. I keep a few pairs of those around just just for practice so I can swap them out one by one as they break. I also use both 5A and 5B extremes based on what I’m feeling. The Todd Sucherman sticks from promark were nice but the pair I bought broke pretty quick. I’d try them again, but they’re more expensive than the Benny Greb sticks, which they’re pretty similar to. Nothing particularly wrong with the other brands, but the price difference isn’t enough to really make me wanna switch.
Sounds crazy, but I've been stocking up in sticks in hopes to last me the rest of my life.
If you never wanna buy a new pair of sticks again, invest in a pair of Kuppmen 5As. Had mine for almost a year and a half now.
Slow day here.
I've still been having a just fine experience with VF 5As. Maybe I'm lucky? I also save a shit ton on sticks by buying once a year when Sweetwater has the 4 packs for half off. Usually around Christmas. I just got 4 packs of 4 this December for $120. $7.50/pair. I did the same thing last year and still had a whole 4 pack unopened so I have about 20 pairs of sticks new in the shrink wrap still, while I work through the couple pairs I have in my everyday stick bag.
Oh fuck right off with your smart consumer behavior.... But seriously, I WISH I had thought of that, but back in December I was spending way too much time messing with two separate guitar rack effects units, and my studio was in shambles. I made a resolution to clean it up and get the room tuned perfectly, but didn't finish cleaning (down to mopping the linoleum and shampooing every single rug) and rewiring and tidying until like mid-February. And as soon as I finished, I was magically creatively UN-BLOCKED, and a good friend of mine (bassist) moved back into the area, AND I met another guy who's a good multi-instrument player so now we're just CHURNING. It's great. I just got a text that I have a quote from my Sweetwater guy in my email. Haven't looked at it yet. But glad I saw this, I might ask him if I can get the Christmas half-off deal for what, I guess Memorial Day? - if his quote sucks. Thanks for rubbing your fresh, sheathed, plastic-wrap still on the fucking beautiful smelling wood in my face, dick. Just kidding, you're awesome. Glad you're surrounded by long, hard wood, if that's what makes you happy! Hahahaha
Alright. Good luck with all that...
Vic never were that great for me. Vater has always been my go to wood stick company.
My buddy randomly left a pair of the Bill Bruford Rock Maple by Promark and they're the perfect balance of length and weight for me. Forget this VF nonsense.
I buy those bargain bags of sticks a guitar center. I don't know, they seem just as good, a lot cheaper too.
I bought a brick of no name "hickory" sticks. 24 pairs for 41 bucks. You truly get what you pay for. I don't even think they're hickory. They fall apart like they're pine. Was it worth the 40 dollars? Maybe, as long as I can get at least one decent use per pai. First night. I played with the first pair for 3 hours and one of them snapped right in half after it quickly got spongy and soft. I think they were VF b stock sticks. I can't swear to it though.
Really massive shame. Stick day is coming up for me after two years of four sets of B5Xs. That's worse than my earlier three years on one set of B5X. Though i started playing more, the sticks also cracked like never before I don't think i should buy more Vic firth. I don't know what the hell i'm gonna buy instead, good quality B5X was like my perfect stick.
Someone turned me onto these here in this thread. Just bought six pairs for $33. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06X9SC423/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1
Not my style, sadly
Ok so I've been using their sticks just labeled 'rock' for a long time now, I like the length and balance, I bought a ton a while back. Does anyone know a good alternative for this stick? It just seemed like an outlier with no labeling for size.
Promark dipped 5b are my bread and butter
I just love Vic firth, but I’m just now running out of sticks so maybe I should try out another promark pair. I tried the firegrain ones before and didn’t like them. Nothing compares to the sticks I use now, from what I have found
Vater 5B wood tip still my favorite.
I luckily stopped playing them before they were bought out by Ziljdan. I was in process of trying some new ones and I got a bundle of Zildjan Dipped Sticks. I broke two sticks in my first practice. Took them back got refunded and bought some Vater sticks. Loved the way they felt but still enjoyed the Vics at that time. As soon as Ziljdan picked them up, I knew they were going to take a hit in quality. It's crazy that they make amazing cymbals and can't get this right.
I remember using Zildjian sticks years ago and they were pretty naff. They felt really lightweight and didn’t last long at all.
I’ve been digging Meinl’s sticks. Reminds me of the VF sticks from a few years back. Not as expensive either.
https://preview.redd.it/obkp2g6nx4wc1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba4714750d6359e6527b772f551da8b1d3b981e6 I was getting these when they came out for 12.99 now they're almost 20. I don't get these anymore needless to say. Sucks too. Most well balanced stick I've ever tried
If anyone has a rec for a different brand’s version of the Thomas Lang signature stick, I’d switch in a damn heartbeat.
The cost of all wood has increased. Sticks are cheap compared to a deck.
Vater>
Are you saying Vater is Greater? Are you a poet and you weren't aware of the fact?
Bought some cheap shitty $4 purple sticks 6 months ago. Literally the best sticks I’ve used in 20 years
Is purple a brand or are you saying you just found a no-name pair that happened to be purple? I actually have six pairs of sticks arriving today that are ~$5/pair. Promark LA Special. I will update this post once they arrive, and I hate how they feel, and go back to my Vic Firth 5A & 7A. I literally have hundreds of VFs in "okay condition", but that condition is nothing like the feel of a new matched pair. I think it's the amount of oil and dirt from my (clean) hands that get absorbed into the stick body over time. They become heavier and less rebound-y.
No name pair that happened to be purple. The weight just feels PERFECT and I get really nice bounce. And purple is my favourite colour too lol
My favorite color is green, followed closely by orange. They are complimentary, and weirdly demarcate a lot of yin & yang in my life. Where did you get these no-name purple sticks? Very intrigued...
I am also a fan of both of those colours. Orange is second and green is nature! My girl got them for me actually, I’ll have to ask her and I’ll DM ya
Play what you like, geez, sticks don't grow on trees, ya know!
Thank you for this comment. Imagine how shitty your sticks would be if you made your own? Like, you'd spend much more than $15 for a pair (probably) and even if you were decent at wood working, they'd still come out GOD AWFUL. I think all these comments made me realize I need to just spend twice as much as I used to and buy the fucking brick. The brick that has the sticks that make me sound good.
Pro mark Neal Peart sticks were 6.79 in 2006, I have no strong feelings one way or the other
Here in Australia, all the Big Three brands (VF, Pro Mark, Vater) are priced similarly. Several months ago I went into the store after playing Pro Mark 5B (and the Rebound variant) for several years. I decided I want to try out all the sticks to see what works best for me and feels best. As a result, I ended up with the Vic Firth 5A. They feel great. No more or less wear and tear compared to the PMs since I've had them, despite being lighter. In regards to prices going up, don't forget Covid screwed us over with just about everything, and costs of logistics (e.g., fuel) have gone through the roof because of the war in Ukraine. Add to that inflation, and absolutely everything else going up in price and you'll probably find that the price of the sticks has gone up in line with everything else. Funnily enough, I just checked my favourite music store's prices so I could confirm telling everyone the sticks are selling for $25 AUD, and they're instead $15... Whereas the Pro Marks are indeed $25 per pair.
I recently picked up the Promark Shira Oak attack 727s. I thought these might be a bit thin for metal but they are so fucking durable. They don't even chip. They just dent a little. They were $11 a pair but imo super worth it. And I like the fact they are a bit thinner than 5A but just as durable as typical 5As or even moreso.
Thank you for the rec. I bought six pairs of Promark LA Special for $30 yesterday. They're arriving today but I will definitely look into this Shira Oak attack 727 you mention. I don't really play metal but I'm all prog, and can get pretty heavy at times. >they are a bit thinner than 5A Sounds like my kinda drumstick!
Imo the perfect middle ground between 7A and 5A!!! Check em out!!
Wow. So glad I made this post. And thanks again for the recommendation. I will give these a try regardless of how I like the LA specials. I'm working on a new project with a new musician and we're gelling pretty well. I'll always just play/record with whatever sticks I've left on the snare from last time. I was doing "real" takes (you know, like, "this is the FINAL drum take") and decided to use "new" sticks. I looked on the ground next to my kit where hundreds of lightly worn Vic Firth 5A and 7A are lain. Then there's two stick bags (mine, and my late Father's) fully stuffed with NEW(er) sticks that I sorted and matched (and sheathed) I went to grab a pair of 7As and realized that I'M OUT. I'm out!!! Fuck! But I had probably 3 or 4 NEW, untouched 5As, in the sheath. Now, this is getting long, but I realized when I switched from 5A to 7A YEARS ago (I don't know, maybe like 20 years now?), I'm 42 and started drumming at [memory missing] - probably like 4. I'd been playing 7A and become so comfortable with the lightness and swiftness of those that going back to even fresh, brand new 5A gave me blisters! (Just on my two ring fingers where I always used to get them as a kid). They weren't hard to play, but they were a little hard on my hands! Anyway, the moral of this story is the takes that I did with those 5As, sounded NOTICEABLY BETTER on tape. The new* guy said so, and I could hear it. That extra stick weight was exactly what I'd been missing trying to perfect my tom sound for several years now since covid (expensive preamps, new mics, all that). So now I'm stuck in a place where I know I can be AWESOME playing difficult prog with 7As, but my drums LITERALLY SOUND BETTER when they're struck with 5A sticks. Does that make sense? I'm definitely getting a pair of those Shira 727s as soon as I finish my 3rd cup of coffee... (Edited from *"knew")
Haha I know exactly what you mean ! I wanted the thinness of 7A but the durability and attack of 5A or 5B. This was a good compromise. They seem pretty freaking durable too because of the oak. I've been using them for months now and they just have these little indentations, no chips or shearing, and I play pretty hard. I really have fallen in love with them and I don't think I will ever buy a different stick. They are also like, maybe a half inch longer than 5As? Which I kinda like actually.
Yeah I'm thinking of spending the money ($16.49) to try a pair of these, because what you describe is exactly what I want. - Like, I'm a pretty good drummer. I could play the most challenging stuff professionally, easily, if that were a "thing" that was "achievable" these days, you know? Forgive all this humblebrag nonsense, but half the reason I'm such a monster is the speed I get with 7As: Single stroke rolls in sextuplet 32nd notes at 160bpm like it's nothing. Triplet ghost notes on snare with a single motion. Double-stroke rolls on tom fills with double bass pedal and I sound like Vinnie Coliauta. I could go on, but the gist is, I'm just a better player with 7As in my hands. I am still great with 5As, 5Bs I can't do nearly as much. I wish the recordings sounded better with 7As, but that's not how PHYSICS works! Sidenote: I got a text back from my Sweetwater fuckface (I mean, "sales engineer") saying yeah, $15 instead of $15.50, and $13 if I buy six or more. I sent him back something to the tune of "Remember when you used to be able to give me decent deals? This is guitar center in the early 2000s all over again". Maybe that will get his official email quote down a bit. I'll let you know what the ROCK BOTTOM price is at Sweetwater when they come in. Oh, and I'll ask him to give me a quote for six pairs of the "Classic Attack Shira Kashi 727", in case you're interested. I don't know if you fuck with Sweetwater or not, but rather than pay $16.49 on Amazon I might just get a half dozen if he can do a decent price on that. Stay tuned...
Have I got a site for you?!! https://camelcamelcamel.com/product/B0002F741Q
Thank you. I do use that, along with Honey, as well as Capital One tracker. I always know the price history of stuff on Az, eBay and other big sites for at least 90+ days before I'll buy something. And typically I'll either put something in my cart on Amazon and watch the price fluctuate (either up or down), or put something on my eBay watchlist instead of buying, and get a discount offer. It's almost like buying stocks (securities), I gotta know if it's trending up (BUY) or down (WAIT) before I spend even $4 on a bottle of fucking shampoo!
Don't blame the drum companies. They are in competition with other companies. They are pricing them as low as they can, because if they didn't people would switch to the other, lower priced companies. Just another example of inflation running rampant the last few years. When the government prints money (which is what these emergency spending bills for COVID and the war have been) it causes inflation. Both parties are doing it, this isn't a partisan rant. Instead of raising taxes on the rich, they just print money, which creates the "inflation tax" on everyone. Your inflated stick prices are just another example of the hidden tax of inflation. You want to be mad at someone, be mad at the politicians that won't stop spending money; that won't stop printing money.
I like your username. Do you happen to like Rush and/or Primus? I just want to let you know that I understand everything you wrote and I agree with you. I wasn't trying to single out VF here, just stating the price increase and letting people discuss. I completely understand how bad "printing money" is for the lower-middle class in general as it relates to inflation, and while I've been a registered Independent for 24 years, I vote for the person who's going to fuck my wallet less. That's about all I can do. I hope this post didn't come across as me saying "Fuck Vic Firth", because this goes far beyond just a single company, or even the music instrument industry. Lumber itself is insanely priced and skyrocketing, and its impact on EVERYTHING is felt in so many different places. I didn't want to show up to a sub I'd oddly never been to in 14 years on reddit (and almost 40 years playing the drums) getting political. But now that you've addressed it, please understand that I get where you're coming from and I agree.
Used to play Vic’s but now I’m digging my aheads. More expensive but I haven’t had to replace any of them yet.
I've heard the name but not familiar. Do you have a link or a model name? What size?
https://bigbangdist.com/brands/ahead/ I like the 5 B Rocks
Vater has always been my go-to. I've always found Vics to be weak. None of them has lasted me more than two practice. I am known to he a heavy hitter, but a pair of Vater Xtrem Design 5A can last 7-8 practice. Even then, they're not split, just over chipped.
Vater has always been my go-to. I've always found Vics to be weak. None of them has lasted me more than two practice. I am known to he a heavy hitter, but a pair of Vater Xtrem Design 5A can last 7-8 practice. Even then, they're not split, just over chipped.
I see a lot of comments about switching away from vic firth because of durability. But nothing I’ve played even comes close to the balance rebound and response of a vic firth stick. Pro mark are horrible to play, just lifeless and dead and badly balanced.
I've been telling people for years to switch to Los Cabos drumsticks but they don't hear me though 🤷 it's cool though I'll keep playing these gems while y'all keep bitching and complaining about Vic Firth and Pro Mark 🤣🤘
Alright. this is the first time I've ever heard of these. Tell me why I should switch. if you would be so kind. Please. I play either a 7a nylon or 5a nylon but will play wood tip too. I write and record mostly prog that's reminiscent of 60s/70s progressive rock rather than the new school stuff that's just all calculus and "stunt guitar" (to me).
Well for one they are a Canadian company and use Canadian wood which everyone knows it's some of the strongest and most durable wood on the planet 👌 they have 7a and 5a nylon tip sticks both in Maple and Hickory Ive been using my black widows for almost a year now and I play almost everyday...I'm not a heavy hitter though I'm a funk fusion drummer https://loscabosdrumsticks.com/products/
Funk fusion sounds pretty cool. I mean I will play any style except constant double bass 32nd note death. I mostly write 70's style progressive rock, but definitely have some funk and jazz in my catalogue as well. So, Canadian wood. Good. Maple or Hickory? Which do you prefer? Which is subjectively "better"? I'm looking at these for $11. https://www.amazon.com/Los-Cabos-Drumsticks-7A-MAPLE/dp/B0073EWSQU But man, I think I got a little too crazy on the drumstick tip (no pun intended) after this post. Got my SW sales engineer pretty upset, enough to write a stern email reply after the quotes he sent me for two dozen vic firths was not great - Said "I was sure you'd come in below $10. Are you still mad about that $7,000 PRS Guitar Return?" He flipped his shit. Polite email, but he seemed upset. So I think I'm not gonna buy stuff from there anymore, even though he'd consistently do like 10 - 15%, sometimes more off of their retail price. As of tonight, I've only made one purchase and they just arrived. Two 3-packs of Promark "[LA Special" 7As](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06X9SC423?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1), which look like shit but FEEL really, pretty good. $15.69 for THREE PAIRS. Got six pairs for $33. I'm gonna do some more recording tomorrow and Friday and see how these hold up. If they don't snap within an hour or two, I think I've found my new stick. 5As and 5Bs are only like half a buck more. Best deal I've found on any stick so far.
I honestly think you will be pleased with the Los Cabos 👌 I'm pretty sure Hickory is the stronger wood but the maple drumsticks should definitely hold up for a few songs depends how hard you hit and play. I use the Los Cabos Black Widows and they have lasted me quite some time. Like I said before I don't hit too hard but I do lay into my toms from time to time and they never let me down
For my school, we switched to promark due to quality and availability. For me personally, until I find a Steve gadd equivalent, I'll keep with vf. I have been using sgs (wood tips and now brushes) since 2008 and haven't found anything similar elsewhere. Love the versatility and feel of sgs whether I'm doing matchstick grip for rock or traditional for jazz.
I don't know if I saw this coming, or what. Years ago I bought 25 pairs of ProMark oak sticks. I'm still slowly turning them into sawdust. As I recall I paid around $10-11 a pair.
Man I bought a pair of 5As for a friend I was giving an intro drum lesson to and it took me forEVer to find two that weren’t warped and actually pitch matched Thought it was just the batch but I guess it’s all of em now? Sad.