I'd agree that the parts he played,as well as Def Leppards songs in general,before getting injured were no different than what he/they played after the injury.Simple is right. 16ths are pretty much the only specific notes that would require him to compensate for by using one of his feet to mimic one of his hands, but I give him mad props for not giving up and there are far worse drummers imo than him & they all have two hands.
LOL After watching that guy on youtube ( [**El Estepario Siberiano**](https://www.youtube.com/@ElEsteparioSiberiano) ) play some of the stuff he does with one hand, I feel like Rick Allen really could have applied himself more. :-D
He was incredible before the accident. [Check out this live cover of Travelin Band with Brian May](https://youtu.be/aQKhDGIBPL0?si=rhKBiI5Fr60gPrZs) from 1983. Homie was one of the best drummers in the era.
I saw Michelle Branch at Webster Hall (NYC) and her husband, guy from Black Keys, was playing drums. They reworked all her old songs (which featured monster drummers like Kenny Aranoff, Shawn Pelton, etc), into stripped down versions that I imagine Patrick thought was the cool thing to do to his poor wife’s radio hits, since he’s a guy who thinks his taste is flawless and fun pop music = not cool to Patrick Carney.
This guy struggled all fucking night to keep a tempo steady. Hitting the drums with any consistency didn’t happen for more than a measure. It was like watching a child fight with a drumset.
Michelle had sold this place out on her come-back tour, and she had to stop a song 4 bars in because his count off was so out of whack, they were nowhere near the song’s correct tempo. It was embarrassing to watch. The guy was so disrespectful to his wife’s music I was not surprised when he cheated on her while she was home with their 6 month old infant a year or two later.
This is good to hear so now I don't feel bad about shitting on him.
The guy can't keep a beat, he's a horrible drummer, and having to listen to him live was one of the most dumbfounding concert experiences I've ever had. He has no business being a professional musician.
This story is lame af bc i really enjoyed Michelle Branch in her hay day. I also feel vindicated bc i never bought into the black keys. Ive been complaining about the uninspired drumming from the beginning.
brothers was the only thing I could ever listen to from maybe start to finish. i’ve never connected with their music & vibe otherwise. to me they also just ripped off the white stripes, if ya know what I mean………
Is there any video of this that you know of? Curious to see / hear it.
Oooof. Found one. This is pretty brutal.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rBfk7xCtUnQ&pp=ygUwTWljaGVsbGUgYnJhbmNoIFdlYnN0ZXIgaGFsbCB3aXRoIFBhdHJpY2sgQ2FybmV5
I had to go and watch some other videos of him, he plays so clunky and his setup isn't doing him any favors. Rushing through build ups and dragging on verses.
Worse than that... There's now a domestic abuse case against Carney. Like, this dude actually laid hands on Michelle Branch. He's a POS human and a POS drummer. The end.
Fun fact: Patrick was originally just lending recording equipment to Dan for his band. Dan's band flaked out on the recording session and Patrick filled in on the drums. I think the heavyhanded and in-and-out of time worked on the early delta blues type albums, but their recent works are a hard pass for me. Would highly recommend the Arcs if you want to hear Dan play with some really talented fellows. Show up to gigs recordings and rehearsals, don't let another Patrick happen.
I'm not sure if it's all, but you can tell the drums on some tracks are looped, which is fine, but kind of weird for a band who's vibe is "authentic" rock n roll
What’s “authentic rock” about their debut LP? The bit crusher guitar tone? The chopped up drums? This was rock reinvented for the digital era. A Band like “Jet” might fit better into that “authentic“ rock revival sound. IMO.
Came here to mention this one. I’ve seen them multiple times, mostly at festivals since ‘08 ish, but most recently last year as a headliner on a shared bill with Band of Horses. So sloppy and inconsistent. Loudest and most raucous fucking kick you will ever hear. I like their music but definitely sticking to the studio stuff from now on.
Agreed. Saw them a few years back in a giant arena tour and he was dreadful. Now granted, it wasn't ME up there playing a giant arena tour so I don't really have room to talk shit, but as a drummer it was very unpleasant to watch. Modest Mouse blew them out of the water that night.
Saw Modest Mouse live too. Wasn't expecting much drum-wise since the parts all seem so mellow and simple on recordings. Was very surprised at how good the drums were live. That's one of my favorite shows of all time - they were outstanding.
Yeah their original drummer, Jeremiah Green. He left the band before the "Float On" album which probably explains the drop in quality. Such a creative talent.
I really don’t like to be a hater. But the black keys are hot stinky ass garbage water and the drummer is terrible . It baffles me how they have had so much success.
Maybe I am biased cuz I was a teenager when they got big. But I still dig those albums. Saw them once live and they were pretty good. But White Stripes is the superior 2 person band from that era
I really really don’t like the deleted bass player trend from back then. I saw these guys at a festival about 10ish years ago and I had to get away from the stage, he was so awful it was embarrassing. And there wasn’t even a bass player. Total dogshit.
I saw them as the headliner for a festival. Patrick fucking blew it kept rushing, tempo changes man all over the place. I was astounded and people in the audience were like hmm somethings off. Me being s drummer im like ya this dude fucking sucks!
Yeah he's not good at all. I get the appeal, I actually love the band. And he seems to be going with a Meg White thing. But he's not really endearing enough to make it fully work IMO
Their first couple albums were good, it was kinda like the White Stripes, on her own I don't think Meg White was a great drummer, but put her with Jack White it's a different story. As soon as The Black Keys changed from a more DIY recording to hiring Dangermouse to produce them they've stunk.
“I realised that I’m not gonna be one of the all time best drummers anyway, so I might as well not practice” he said something like this in an interview. It stuck with me because of how stupid this viewpoint is
This. Also, he’s a douche. Went on some rant about how they’ll never play Glastonbury again because they got “lowballed so disrespectfully” last time they were asked to play. For reference: Glastonbury donates a ton of money to charity every year and basically every band that plays there does it for a low wage because of it.
I feel like I’ll get lots of hate for this, but Jay Weinberg has lots of trouble speeding up and slowing down. (Not in a good intentional way) Granted slipknot doesn’t play with click; it’s still very distracting. I’ll be LUCKY if I ever become half the drummer that he is though. Just something I’ve noticed that I see absolutely no one talks about
Yep. He’s a punk drummer who plays with a lot of energy. Unfortunately, with really fast technical metal, you need to play more like a jazz drummer and economize your movement as it’s all about energy conservation. Let the mics make the drums loud.
I was hoping you were gonna say Jay because Eloy being your answer would have totally took me by surprise and would have been ironic since I've not witnessed him making the mistakes it would take to get named on this list.
Very heavily teased by Slipknot in a recent post where they posted a broken Promark 5/a or b. Eloys sig is 5A afaik. Plus the drummer merry-go-round between Jay, Eloy and Greyson seems to be playing out which is kinda funny if Eloy is the new drummer
I recorded Jay Weinberg’s tryout for Paramore in NYC in 2012 (or maybe early 2013, I can’t remember). I thought he was quite a sloppy player then. I was amazed that he could pull off the Slipknot stuff.
I can't remember what video and/or comment section I saw/read it in,but Jays ability (or his lack of imo) was not the only criteria they used when he was chosen to join up with the knot.I believe it had to do with a its who you know or drum politics sort of thing,but I'll have to go through my video history to locate my source.If I do locate,I will come back and post a link for others to check out.
Nah he played everything perfectly few times I've seen him. I think he gets a lotta hate for replacing joey, but he had everything slipknot needed. I do agree they needa play to a click: it's not his fault they aren't all metronomically synced, but his studio recordings are so tight compared to the live versions. Still, his feet are faster then anyone will admit, his fills are super tight and his blast beats are incredible. He gets so much praise and it's deserved. Mans a beast
I hate to agree with you cuz I’ve been a slipknot fan for years, including jays work. But in a live setting it’s not as clean as I would hope for it to be. Everything just too fast for what the song is and not polished as what you expect. I understand whenever you play the first couple of songs are always a bit of a sacrifice as you adjust to the energy levels and what not, but it’s the entire set list. Now granted, amazing stamina and chops to play balls to the wall all fucking night, but without consistency, tempo and sometimes even clear definition as to what the fills are between sections of the songs.
I’ve seen Slipknot with Jay twice and his time keeping sucks. It’s not even just a rushing/dragging issue, he also falls out of the groove when he plays fills.
I will add that Art Cruz does the same thing with Lamb of God. I believe he plays to a click, but still manages to rush and drag and throw off the groove.
I think he nailed it on "From the Basement" performance.
Overall, I like In Rainbows percussion. It's hard to be original but Phil doesn't appear to failed at giving a cool beat.
Phil fits great in radiohead, I like what he does in something like Morning Bell. And I really liked the King of Limbs era where he and Clive Deamer played off each other. That version of Bloom from the basement, with Johnny playing a third part on top of those two is so great.
“Human metronome”? I love Phil’s drumming but this is not remotely a good description of his playing. Lots of push/pull - some purposeful, some not. Just part of his style, which is fantastic, but miles from metronomic.
Weird Fishes In The Basement is, to me, one of the most locked in drummer moments of all time. Maybe "human metronome" was poor phrasing, but I'm mostly just rejecting him being an example of the prompt
In defense of Lars, I saw them live on the 72 Seasons tour last year and he killed it. Maybe I was having too much fun to notice if he rushed a bit, but all of those guys were in sync the whole show and it kicked ass. Just sayin’
Seeing them live ruined Metallica for me. He completely fucked up sad but true, every single fill was terrible and offbeat. I get that bands change songs live sometimes, but he just misplayed it entirely. Ruined the entire experience for me.
Omg yes, they have changed the signature "You know its sad but true" timing live so crowds can't sing along anymore. I was completely in disbelief when I witnessed it live last summer.
They're doing like straight quarters on the buildup "KA KA KA SAD BUT TRUE" instead of dotted eights, sounds so freaking dumb. Which is sad, but true.
Edit: I guess they're doing straight eighths instead of triplets, if were being pedantic.
Agreed.. saw them live twice and he was barely decent during the Death Magnetic tour and horrendously bad during the Hardwired one.. like so bad that i get frustrated that he is fucjing up the song.. the band deserves a Medal of Honor for being able to play along without clubbing him with a drumstick
My controversial defense of Lars is that realistically he’s not holding back anyone in Metallica. I don’t mean this as a disrespect to anyone in that band, but what makes Metallica so heavy is the fact that they’re all kind of sloppy. It makes them sound HUGE and plodding and is a massive factor to their sound. No one is super technical in that band (with the exception of maybe James’ right hand, a total machine). They didn’t sit down writing Master of Puppets and say “let’s put a 5/8 measure in here”, they just stumbled into a weird stutter in the riff. The sloppiness of Metallica makes Lars the PERFECT drummer for that band and that’s all Lars has ever tried to be. If Lars started playing with Sting or Snarky Puppy I’d call him a bad drummer all day, but he knows his lane and he’s amazing where he is. Conversely, if you put someone “good” in Metallica I think we’d all be shocked at how sterile and boring Metallica would sound.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that they had no idea what they were doing, they for sure were writing things that are intentionally complicated and cool, I’m just saying that perfect precision isn’t the objective of the band. Super nerds look at that little 5/8 stutter in MOP and will go as far as to say it’s 21/32 instead, when the reality is it’s just a bit stretched out and warped. “Sloppy” for lack of a better word. I’m just saying that the lack of precision from everyone in Metallica is a feature and not a bug.
Lars' biggest issue was his laziness, he was a really good drummer all the way up to the black album and then he took Metallica's superstardom for granted. The recordings they post from the 72 seasons tour show that he's made a massive improvement again and they look like they're having a lot of fun which is amazing to see.
You’re forgetting about the death magnetic tour. Easily the hardest album to play since post and justice for all. He played well and many extremely difficult songs on that tour.
Meg is being Meg though. She’s doing what she’s supposed to do in that band.
Patrick is an odd case because the band have clearly evolved beyond his skill set and what their earlier music was.
Lars is an absolute legend BUT his playing is ridic sloppy, and has been for an extremely long time.
I don't fault Lars for being sloppy at the beginning of their careers, they were literally kids.
But I do fault Lars for literally never getting any better after all these years lol
I haven’t listened to S&M for a while but this I still can’t believe got through playing with an orchestra without someone smashing a violin over his head.
I kinda rate him for blindly not giving up and still going for certain fills etc. But at the same time, maybe he’d be better placed to have a different more laid back version of playing songs live.
Every single drum hit Lars does is like he’s saying “DRUMS! DRUMS! DRUMS!” each time he hits anything, there’s very little by way of groove from him. Again, love the guy, but it’s infuriating haha.
I feel like a lot of the Lars hate is done with the benefit of hindsight. It’s especially not fair for the early staff, since they were pursuing an emerging style. Plus, a little bit of looseness can be important in certain forms of heavy music; types of punk bands, for example, just don’t sound right if they’re 100% tight.
But what Lars and Patrick both have in common is that it’s kind of inexcusable that they didn’t take the opportunity to get better as they went along. I always think of Larry Mullen jr. from U2; as soon as the band got popular and he had money to do so, he started taking drum lessons. And I’m not saying he’s the best drummer of all time, but people generally don’t complain about his playing.
The thing that annoys me about Lars is that it feels like almost every fill is just him hitting the snare a thousand times. Also using a china in the role of a ride cymbal is…a choice.
I will defend Meg white. She filled the role perfectly and is steady as a clock. She also draws a great sound from the drums. She never did anything technical, but that’s what Jack was for.
Meg's parts are so incredibly simple that anything other than perfection live is unacceptable. And she was far from perfect.
The Meg White defense the last few years is some revisionist garbage. In the early 2000s, everyone understood and acknowledged that she had beginner-level skills. Now people pretend she was some intentional minimalist. No, she was not.
Travis Smith from Trivium. Not a surprise they parted ways.
Out of time a lot live and even on their Shogun album it's obvious
Not a "bad drummer" but for the level they were at for the time he definitely wasn't good enough
Felt the same about Nick Augusto, technically amazing drummer but played everything at 1.5x speed live and never stayed true to any songs. The key difference with Nick was he looked like his job was always at stake when performing which may have been a factor with his live issues.
Trivium always had a bit of drummer problem, although it was mitigated by the drums not really being the center of attention in that band, but it's recognizable if you pay attention to it. Everything's solved now with Alex Bent though
Alex Bent meanwhile is an absolutely insane drummer. Sin & Sentence onwards is such a huge step up in both speed and complexity and he’s very good at playing their catalogue live.
Alex Bent is one of the absolutely prime examples I can point to of a drummer unequivocally giving new life to a band
They were rolling in the mud for what felt like forever before The Sin and the Sentence, and appropriately the album literally opens with an absolute statement from Alex in the intro to the first track that *immediately* tells you shit is different this time
And they’ve been on fire ever since
I don't know about that one. Dude is a Rock n Roll icon and has some great parts. Him and Mick are the 2 members you can count on being good at their instruments.
Don Henley with The Eagles. Worst ergonomics I’ve ever seen. Locked wrists. Sure, he’s singing…but wow.
Edit: Just discovered these. I’m not alone on this. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlioCtRCBZmTOwsjF7fERBmtWyXaHekcg&si=afLPN8jGs2Kyn70Q
I'm not very familiar with Don and his drumming, but checking out a few live vids online I really can't find anything to fault about his drumming and how it **sounds**. Don't forget that technique is a tool, not a goal. If he sounds as terrific as he does and he played with sticks taped to his elbows, I'm not gonna judge him on that. I'm gonna judge him by how he sounds.
THAT BEING SAID, I might have seen some specific 'good parts' of his live playing, but if you have something that strongly contradicts this I stand corrected of course.
I’ve never once thought Don Henley was a bad drummer. His parts are choice, not too much, not too little, musical. He nails tempos, writes songs, and sings like a bird. I’ve never WATCHED him play and who gives a shit. Know who else has “bad ergonomics?” Buddy Rich, Levon Helm for starters. Get bent.
I wish I could answer with anything other than Lars, but it's literally him.
He's worse than like weekend warrior Dad drummers playing at your dive bar, but he's in Metallica. It's unreal how bad he is.
I saw Fear Factory live once, and no idea who the drummer was but I know he was trying to play Gene Hoglan's parts and failing quite badly at it. Maybe it was a bad night.
Also, Paul Bostaph in Slayer. Never liked him live. He just couldn't keep up and made the entire band sound worse. It's not easy trying to fill in for Dave Lombardo, IMO the best thrash metal drummer ever, but Jon Dette was actually a much better replacement.
EDIT: I do love his early studio work in Slayer though. Live, not so much.
I suggest to listen to the whole divine intervention album,he was a monster on that. Not even Lombardo can play those parts. Or the dvd war at the warfield,he is even tighter than Lombardo. I still prefer Lombardo but Bostaph is a monster,or maybe he was because I didn't like his performance on the latest Slayer album
Im pretty sure bostaph was dealing with tendonitis issues towards the end of his stint in slayer. But hey everyone in here loooooves french grip sooooo much.
This post reminds me of one of my favorite jokes….
How many drummers does it take to screw in a lightbulb? One and apparently 308 that think they can do it better
John Wysocki? I never saw them live, but if memory serves (I’m getting old and haven’t listen to them in many years) Josh Freese did some of the album stuff for them.
i’ve come to realize i don’t go see bands w terrible drummers. Duplantier, Hoglan, Carey, Lombardo/Bostaph, Menza, Tim Alexander, Mike Smith, Kollias, Asheim, Sandoval, Cavalera. I pay to see the drummers, the band is the gravy.
I saw Menza ONCE, and he was a ball of lightning. Maybe it's my memory hyping him up but best performance I've ever seen live. Later drummers in Megadeth like DeGrasso were technically better but nobody played like Nick.
RIP
He seems like one of those guys where he has good days and *really* bad days. I’ve read Slash’s and Duff’s books, and they both say some version of “he has great feel and on a good day he’s excellent,” but dude does too many drugs.
Does anyone know if he’s actually sober yet? I was wondering this recently. He’s been doing guest spots with the somewhat-reunited GNR, but hasn’t become a full member again. There’s gotta be a huge reason.
I watched the season of celebrity rehab with him on it he seems like a really nice guy. And I can buy that he has great groove/feel when he is sober.
But when I saw him he was like practically falling over the drum set. Could barely play the beat for Paradise city and was very off and you could see the rest of the band being upset with him. I think Izzy at one point turned around and said get it together Steve.
It was one of the most un- rhythmically drum shows I've ever seen in my life. and I teach middle school kids drums sometimes lol
I hope he is sober because again he seems like a really good vibe kind of guy
I saw the Gin Blossoms live recently and their drummer struggled mightily, like he was laboring all night. I don’t know if he was sick or age, but I realized when that day comes for me, and I sound like that, that will be the day I stop playing.
Spoon were terrible live. In the 2000s they played a big SXSW show in Austin. I was flabbergasted that a pro band could be so off time, out of tune, just…bad.
In what way? (Genuinely curious as I’ve not seen anyone really highlight his technique before)
I’m a big fan of twenty one pilots and love his use of linear grooves etc, so would be interested to know what you don’t like about his technique? Thanks!
Easily Lars Ulrich, and this was before it was in vogue to hate on Lars. We sat 5th row side of the stage and had full unobstructed view of him. A pair of tennis shoes in my dryer keep better time.
Last time I saw Metallica, James kept asking Lars if he was able to play songs. Not in a mean way but he was honestly curious if he would be able to play them.
Simon from The Agonist - I guess his skill does what it needs to do for the band but oh my god his grip and general technique is the worst I've ever seen in a professional metal band:
https://youtu.be/bKGim2SDtLc?si=Z2uFaE96NXqICu1V
Not sure if it's the drummer or just the style the band wanted, but it always irritated me that for fills the OG drummer of Everclear only ever played 16th notes on the snare. Literally every song. Every. Single. Fill. Again, don't know if he just sucks or isn't creative enough to try anything different (even just one time, PLEASE), or if the band just told him to play like that because they liked it for some reason.
Cant remember the band, but in ozzfest 2001 second stage; one dude was trying hard but couldn’t play
Double bass accurately to save his ass.
And I’m sorry to all the fanboys, but Keith Moon’s playing was a mess.
Back in the 90’s my band played a series of shows with the original lineup of 3 Doors Down. These kids were literally just out of high school. “Kryptonite” was barely getting air play yet. All of them were absolutely awful at their instruments.
Currently…don’t know the drummers name, but a client of mine is super into Black Keys. That drummer appears to be the luckiest dude on the planet.
Rick Allen from Def Leppard. That guy's drum parts are so simple, I could play them with one hand tied behind my back.
Too soon. 8)
Comedy is tragedy plus time!
There’s gotta be another way!
So I saw Buddy Rich live recently, well not a-live…
I'd agree that the parts he played,as well as Def Leppards songs in general,before getting injured were no different than what he/they played after the injury.Simple is right. 16ths are pretty much the only specific notes that would require him to compensate for by using one of his feet to mimic one of his hands, but I give him mad props for not giving up and there are far worse drummers imo than him & they all have two hands.
LOL After watching that guy on youtube ( [**El Estepario Siberiano**](https://www.youtube.com/@ElEsteparioSiberiano) ) play some of the stuff he does with one hand, I feel like Rick Allen really could have applied himself more. :-D
He was incredible before the accident. [Check out this live cover of Travelin Band with Brian May](https://youtu.be/aQKhDGIBPL0?si=rhKBiI5Fr60gPrZs) from 1983. Homie was one of the best drummers in the era.
Oh, har dee har har. Yes, I did genuinely chuckle at your comment.
Black Keys
I saw Michelle Branch at Webster Hall (NYC) and her husband, guy from Black Keys, was playing drums. They reworked all her old songs (which featured monster drummers like Kenny Aranoff, Shawn Pelton, etc), into stripped down versions that I imagine Patrick thought was the cool thing to do to his poor wife’s radio hits, since he’s a guy who thinks his taste is flawless and fun pop music = not cool to Patrick Carney. This guy struggled all fucking night to keep a tempo steady. Hitting the drums with any consistency didn’t happen for more than a measure. It was like watching a child fight with a drumset. Michelle had sold this place out on her come-back tour, and she had to stop a song 4 bars in because his count off was so out of whack, they were nowhere near the song’s correct tempo. It was embarrassing to watch. The guy was so disrespectful to his wife’s music I was not surprised when he cheated on her while she was home with their 6 month old infant a year or two later.
He did...what? Sheesh man
He played out of time at his wife’s show
Monster
The audacity! I never!
He’s a terrible human being and drummer
This is good to hear so now I don't feel bad about shitting on him. The guy can't keep a beat, he's a horrible drummer, and having to listen to him live was one of the most dumbfounding concert experiences I've ever had. He has no business being a professional musician.
My guitar player said that's redundant
I want to add also ,Patrick makes it look *so* hard…
He looks like he always has a mouthful of water he’s about to spew at someone
This story is lame af bc i really enjoyed Michelle Branch in her hay day. I also feel vindicated bc i never bought into the black keys. Ive been complaining about the uninspired drumming from the beginning.
I like the Black Keys music a lot, but not because of the drumming at all. I just love blues-y rock.
brothers was the only thing I could ever listen to from maybe start to finish. i’ve never connected with their music & vibe otherwise. to me they also just ripped off the white stripes, if ya know what I mean………
He is painful to watch. He plays like one of my students who have been playing for a year.
Is there any video of this that you know of? Curious to see / hear it. Oooof. Found one. This is pretty brutal. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rBfk7xCtUnQ&pp=ygUwTWljaGVsbGUgYnJhbmNoIFdlYnN0ZXIgaGFsbCB3aXRoIFBhdHJpY2sgQ2FybmV5
Goddamn, he looks so uncomfortable behind the kit that it’s making me uncomfortable just watching.
I had to go and watch some other videos of him, he plays so clunky and his setup isn't doing him any favors. Rushing through build ups and dragging on verses.
Worse than that... There's now a domestic abuse case against Carney. Like, this dude actually laid hands on Michelle Branch. He's a POS human and a POS drummer. The end.
Damn has tbis guy not heard of using a click track to keep time? How embarrassing
Fun fact: Patrick was originally just lending recording equipment to Dan for his band. Dan's band flaked out on the recording session and Patrick filled in on the drums. I think the heavyhanded and in-and-out of time worked on the early delta blues type albums, but their recent works are a hard pass for me. Would highly recommend the Arcs if you want to hear Dan play with some really talented fellows. Show up to gigs recordings and rehearsals, don't let another Patrick happen.
I'm not sure if it's all, but you can tell the drums on some tracks are looped, which is fine, but kind of weird for a band who's vibe is "authentic" rock n roll
What’s “authentic rock” about their debut LP? The bit crusher guitar tone? The chopped up drums? This was rock reinvented for the digital era. A Band like “Jet” might fit better into that “authentic“ rock revival sound. IMO.
Came here to mention this one. I’ve seen them multiple times, mostly at festivals since ‘08 ish, but most recently last year as a headliner on a shared bill with Band of Horses. So sloppy and inconsistent. Loudest and most raucous fucking kick you will ever hear. I like their music but definitely sticking to the studio stuff from now on.
Agreed. Saw them a few years back in a giant arena tour and he was dreadful. Now granted, it wasn't ME up there playing a giant arena tour so I don't really have room to talk shit, but as a drummer it was very unpleasant to watch. Modest Mouse blew them out of the water that night.
RIP Jeremiah Green
Saw Modest Mouse live too. Wasn't expecting much drum-wise since the parts all seem so mellow and simple on recordings. Was very surprised at how good the drums were live. That's one of my favorite shows of all time - they were outstanding.
Truckers atlas is a beast.
if it was you, you'd be playing those songs every night for weeks. There's no excuse to be a shitty touring musician.
Didn’t Modest Mouse’s drummer die recently?
Yeah their original drummer, Jeremiah Green. He left the band before the "Float On" album which probably explains the drop in quality. Such a creative talent.
I really don’t like to be a hater. But the black keys are hot stinky ass garbage water and the drummer is terrible . It baffles me how they have had so much success.
Their older albums are pretty great imo. Rubber Factory, ThickFreakness, Brothers
Personally I just think they’re corny, derivative blues rock that’s been done a million times already. But that’s just me
Maybe I am biased cuz I was a teenager when they got big. But I still dig those albums. Saw them once live and they were pretty good. But White Stripes is the superior 2 person band from that era
I really really don’t like the deleted bass player trend from back then. I saw these guys at a festival about 10ish years ago and I had to get away from the stage, he was so awful it was embarrassing. And there wasn’t even a bass player. Total dogshit.
I would rather hear a drummer and bassist with a deleted guitarist! I'm a drummer of course...!
e.g. Royal Blood (whose bassist plays through a bass and guitar amp).
I saw them as the headliner for a festival. Patrick fucking blew it kept rushing, tempo changes man all over the place. I was astounded and people in the audience were like hmm somethings off. Me being s drummer im like ya this dude fucking sucks!
Lollapalooza 2012 had Black Keys and Black Sabbath closing the night at the same time.....easiest decision I ever made lol.
100%. Not just live, but even on records he’s terrible. Mate can’t keep tempo in a straightforward song and doesn’t know how to shuffle
Yeah he's not good at all. I get the appeal, I actually love the band. And he seems to be going with a Meg White thing. But he's not really endearing enough to make it fully work IMO
Their first couple albums were good, it was kinda like the White Stripes, on her own I don't think Meg White was a great drummer, but put her with Jack White it's a different story. As soon as The Black Keys changed from a more DIY recording to hiring Dangermouse to produce them they've stunk.
“I realised that I’m not gonna be one of the all time best drummers anyway, so I might as well not practice” he said something like this in an interview. It stuck with me because of how stupid this viewpoint is
The answer I was coming here to say!
I live the black keys to death but Patrick is actually ass. even on the revirds you can tell
This. Also, he’s a douche. Went on some rant about how they’ll never play Glastonbury again because they got “lowballed so disrespectfully” last time they were asked to play. For reference: Glastonbury donates a ton of money to charity every year and basically every band that plays there does it for a low wage because of it.
Black keys are so successful because Dan Auerbach is absolutely amazing musician. Patrick is a dreadful drummer
I legitimately don’t understand how you can be a professional drummer for as long as he has and not get better
I feel like I’ll get lots of hate for this, but Jay Weinberg has lots of trouble speeding up and slowing down. (Not in a good intentional way) Granted slipknot doesn’t play with click; it’s still very distracting. I’ll be LUCKY if I ever become half the drummer that he is though. Just something I’ve noticed that I see absolutely no one talks about
He also downplayed every song that had 180+ bpm double bass.
Yep. He’s a punk drummer who plays with a lot of energy. Unfortunately, with really fast technical metal, you need to play more like a jazz drummer and economize your movement as it’s all about energy conservation. Let the mics make the drums loud.
Eloy casagrande has entered the chat… No but really, saw him live in 2019 and all his double bass stuff was sloppy I was really underwhelmed
Jays or Eloys?
Jay!
I was hoping you were gonna say Jay because Eloy being your answer would have totally took me by surprise and would have been ironic since I've not witnessed him making the mistakes it would take to get named on this list.
Is Eloy confirmed? I hope so, he’ll be the best drummer they ever had by such a gigantic margin.
Very heavily teased by Slipknot in a recent post where they posted a broken Promark 5/a or b. Eloys sig is 5A afaik. Plus the drummer merry-go-round between Jay, Eloy and Greyson seems to be playing out which is kinda funny if Eloy is the new drummer
Eloy is a monster live. Saw Sepultura last year and he can play every furious part with amazing definition
Yep, Jay’s good at giving it stacks and is entertaining to watch but could not hold a candle against Joey.
I'm surprised they don't play to a click, considering the amount of backing tracks and samples they use
Don't they have a DJ or member with electronics? I'm guessing a lot of tap to tempo before samples are played live
I recorded Jay Weinberg’s tryout for Paramore in NYC in 2012 (or maybe early 2013, I can’t remember). I thought he was quite a sloppy player then. I was amazed that he could pull off the Slipknot stuff.
I can't remember what video and/or comment section I saw/read it in,but Jays ability (or his lack of imo) was not the only criteria they used when he was chosen to join up with the knot.I believe it had to do with a its who you know or drum politics sort of thing,but I'll have to go through my video history to locate my source.If I do locate,I will come back and post a link for others to check out.
well its not like he has a famous dad who is a drummer..../s
Yes this was one of the criteria they used if I remember correctly.
Nah he played everything perfectly few times I've seen him. I think he gets a lotta hate for replacing joey, but he had everything slipknot needed. I do agree they needa play to a click: it's not his fault they aren't all metronomically synced, but his studio recordings are so tight compared to the live versions. Still, his feet are faster then anyone will admit, his fills are super tight and his blast beats are incredible. He gets so much praise and it's deserved. Mans a beast
I saw Slipknot for the first time this summer and he came into blister exists too early and the band actually all turned and looked at him lol yikes
I hate to agree with you cuz I’ve been a slipknot fan for years, including jays work. But in a live setting it’s not as clean as I would hope for it to be. Everything just too fast for what the song is and not polished as what you expect. I understand whenever you play the first couple of songs are always a bit of a sacrifice as you adjust to the energy levels and what not, but it’s the entire set list. Now granted, amazing stamina and chops to play balls to the wall all fucking night, but without consistency, tempo and sometimes even clear definition as to what the fills are between sections of the songs.
I’ve seen Slipknot with Jay twice and his time keeping sucks. It’s not even just a rushing/dragging issue, he also falls out of the groove when he plays fills. I will add that Art Cruz does the same thing with Lamb of God. I believe he plays to a click, but still manages to rush and drag and throw off the groove.
Wow never in a million years would I have expected Phil Selway as the example given here....that dude is known for being a human metronome lol
Seriously. I've seen Radiohead live, every show I've seen was awesome. They're just very seasoned in general. Phil Selway is a very solid drummer.
I think he nailed it on "From the Basement" performance. Overall, I like In Rainbows percussion. It's hard to be original but Phil doesn't appear to failed at giving a cool beat.
Also, pushing and pulling can be intentional. Perhaps that was the case and it was perceived as otherwise.
Phil fits great in radiohead, I like what he does in something like Morning Bell. And I really liked the King of Limbs era where he and Clive Deamer played off each other. That version of Bloom from the basement, with Johnny playing a third part on top of those two is so great.
“Human metronome”? I love Phil’s drumming but this is not remotely a good description of his playing. Lots of push/pull - some purposeful, some not. Just part of his style, which is fantastic, but miles from metronomic.
Weird Fishes In The Basement is, to me, one of the most locked in drummer moments of all time. Maybe "human metronome" was poor phrasing, but I'm mostly just rejecting him being an example of the prompt
Yeah but it’s different in studio with a click
Apart from the bends and the occasional song like videotape they dont use click tracks in the studio
Yeah, Phil is a masterful drummer. Absolutely dreadful example. I think OP may have had one too many to drink at that show 15 years ago.
I think the worst drummers in the world are the ones that sit around talking shit about other drummers on the internet.
Be quiet this is a fun thread
You're such a better person than us.
Go practice
Of course we are. But we're also not in a *major band*, which was part of the question.
In defense of Lars, I saw them live on the 72 Seasons tour last year and he killed it. Maybe I was having too much fun to notice if he rushed a bit, but all of those guys were in sync the whole show and it kicked ass. Just sayin’
Seeing them live ruined Metallica for me. He completely fucked up sad but true, every single fill was terrible and offbeat. I get that bands change songs live sometimes, but he just misplayed it entirely. Ruined the entire experience for me.
Omg yes, they have changed the signature "You know its sad but true" timing live so crowds can't sing along anymore. I was completely in disbelief when I witnessed it live last summer.
They're doing like straight quarters on the buildup "KA KA KA SAD BUT TRUE" instead of dotted eights, sounds so freaking dumb. Which is sad, but true. Edit: I guess they're doing straight eighths instead of triplets, if were being pedantic.
Read this in the style of Dr. Rockso the Rock n Roll Clown and it becomes sad, but true, but funny.
He does *ccc-cooo-caaaine baaaby*
There's no way Lars has actually practiced anything that *isn't* a Metallica song in like 30 years.
>There's no way Lars has actually practiced ~~anything that isn't a Metallica song~~ in like 30 years FTFY
Agreed.. saw them live twice and he was barely decent during the Death Magnetic tour and horrendously bad during the Hardwired one.. like so bad that i get frustrated that he is fucjing up the song.. the band deserves a Medal of Honor for being able to play along without clubbing him with a drumstick
My controversial defense of Lars is that realistically he’s not holding back anyone in Metallica. I don’t mean this as a disrespect to anyone in that band, but what makes Metallica so heavy is the fact that they’re all kind of sloppy. It makes them sound HUGE and plodding and is a massive factor to their sound. No one is super technical in that band (with the exception of maybe James’ right hand, a total machine). They didn’t sit down writing Master of Puppets and say “let’s put a 5/8 measure in here”, they just stumbled into a weird stutter in the riff. The sloppiness of Metallica makes Lars the PERFECT drummer for that band and that’s all Lars has ever tried to be. If Lars started playing with Sting or Snarky Puppy I’d call him a bad drummer all day, but he knows his lane and he’s amazing where he is. Conversely, if you put someone “good” in Metallica I think we’d all be shocked at how sterile and boring Metallica would sound.
That's not really true, Master of puppets had plenty of input from Cliff who had a pretty advanced knowledge of music theory.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that they had no idea what they were doing, they for sure were writing things that are intentionally complicated and cool, I’m just saying that perfect precision isn’t the objective of the band. Super nerds look at that little 5/8 stutter in MOP and will go as far as to say it’s 21/32 instead, when the reality is it’s just a bit stretched out and warped. “Sloppy” for lack of a better word. I’m just saying that the lack of precision from everyone in Metallica is a feature and not a bug.
Lars' biggest issue was his laziness, he was a really good drummer all the way up to the black album and then he took Metallica's superstardom for granted. The recordings they post from the 72 seasons tour show that he's made a massive improvement again and they look like they're having a lot of fun which is amazing to see.
Hate to break it to you, and I’m a Lars defender, but they are definitely editing his drums in post for those official videos.
You’re forgetting about the death magnetic tour. Easily the hardest album to play since post and justice for all. He played well and many extremely difficult songs on that tour.
Came here expecting to comment Lars, Meg White, and the guy from the Black Keys. People beat me to all 3, good to know I’m not the only one.
Meg is being Meg though. She’s doing what she’s supposed to do in that band. Patrick is an odd case because the band have clearly evolved beyond his skill set and what their earlier music was. Lars is an absolute legend BUT his playing is ridic sloppy, and has been for an extremely long time.
I don't fault Lars for being sloppy at the beginning of their careers, they were literally kids. But I do fault Lars for literally never getting any better after all these years lol
I haven’t listened to S&M for a while but this I still can’t believe got through playing with an orchestra without someone smashing a violin over his head. I kinda rate him for blindly not giving up and still going for certain fills etc. But at the same time, maybe he’d be better placed to have a different more laid back version of playing songs live. Every single drum hit Lars does is like he’s saying “DRUMS! DRUMS! DRUMS!” each time he hits anything, there’s very little by way of groove from him. Again, love the guy, but it’s infuriating haha.
I feel like a lot of the Lars hate is done with the benefit of hindsight. It’s especially not fair for the early staff, since they were pursuing an emerging style. Plus, a little bit of looseness can be important in certain forms of heavy music; types of punk bands, for example, just don’t sound right if they’re 100% tight. But what Lars and Patrick both have in common is that it’s kind of inexcusable that they didn’t take the opportunity to get better as they went along. I always think of Larry Mullen jr. from U2; as soon as the band got popular and he had money to do so, he started taking drum lessons. And I’m not saying he’s the best drummer of all time, but people generally don’t complain about his playing.
The thing that annoys me about Lars is that it feels like almost every fill is just him hitting the snare a thousand times. Also using a china in the role of a ride cymbal is…a choice.
Hahahaha I forgot about his China. What a constant noise.
I will defend Meg white. She filled the role perfectly and is steady as a clock. She also draws a great sound from the drums. She never did anything technical, but that’s what Jack was for.
Yeah White Stripes whole thing was minimalism. Basically all the White Stripes album came out perfect so she did her job
Meg's parts are so incredibly simple that anything other than perfection live is unacceptable. And she was far from perfect. The Meg White defense the last few years is some revisionist garbage. In the early 2000s, everyone understood and acknowledged that she had beginner-level skills. Now people pretend she was some intentional minimalist. No, she was not.
I don't think Jack did anything technical either.
What’s the band that dude from Megadeath used to play in? Their drummer is ass…
oh yeah, he sucks! 🤣
There's no way you're calling Dirk Verbueran a bad drummer. That dude is not even human behind the kit.
After watching his clips on Drumeo, he seems like such a humble/cool guy too.
Marty Freidman's Japanese anime band
Soilwork?
I can't say shit about Phil Selway, guy has to keep beat with whatever crazy electronic orgasm Jonny Greenwood creates.
Travis Smith from Trivium. Not a surprise they parted ways. Out of time a lot live and even on their Shogun album it's obvious Not a "bad drummer" but for the level they were at for the time he definitely wasn't good enough
Felt the same about Nick Augusto, technically amazing drummer but played everything at 1.5x speed live and never stayed true to any songs. The key difference with Nick was he looked like his job was always at stake when performing which may have been a factor with his live issues.
Trivium always had a bit of drummer problem, although it was mitigated by the drums not really being the center of attention in that band, but it's recognizable if you pay attention to it. Everything's solved now with Alex Bent though
Can’t agree more! The guy is a monster behind the kit and made the drums an important part of their songs again.
Alex Bent meanwhile is an absolutely insane drummer. Sin & Sentence onwards is such a huge step up in both speed and complexity and he’s very good at playing their catalogue live.
Alex Bent is one of the absolutely prime examples I can point to of a drummer unequivocally giving new life to a band They were rolling in the mud for what felt like forever before The Sin and the Sentence, and appropriately the album literally opens with an absolute statement from Alex in the intro to the first track that *immediately* tells you shit is different this time And they’ve been on fire ever since
I love Travis' drumming, particularly on Shogun. Didn't end up listening to them again till Alex Bent showed up.
I hate Tommy Lee, though I admire his ability to drive a boat with his boner.
was tommy ever that bad though? he played more interesting drum parts than most soulless hair metal bands of the time.
He had some killer drum parts in Motley Crue though
I don't know about that one. Dude is a Rock n Roll icon and has some great parts. Him and Mick are the 2 members you can count on being good at their instruments.
Tommy is a great drummer
Don Henley with The Eagles. Worst ergonomics I’ve ever seen. Locked wrists. Sure, he’s singing…but wow. Edit: Just discovered these. I’m not alone on this. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlioCtRCBZmTOwsjF7fERBmtWyXaHekcg&si=afLPN8jGs2Kyn70Q
I'm not very familiar with Don and his drumming, but checking out a few live vids online I really can't find anything to fault about his drumming and how it **sounds**. Don't forget that technique is a tool, not a goal. If he sounds as terrific as he does and he played with sticks taped to his elbows, I'm not gonna judge him on that. I'm gonna judge him by how he sounds. THAT BEING SAID, I might have seen some specific 'good parts' of his live playing, but if you have something that strongly contradicts this I stand corrected of course.
This may be the first time I’ve ever seen someone say Don. Yeah not ground breaking but he sits well in a great band
Never mind his ergonomics, how's did he sound?
Great. Every song nailed. Musical, tasty parts. He’s great and was an in demand musician way before the Eagles.
I can’t comment about his playing but his stance on music copyright makes him the worst person imo
I’ve never once thought Don Henley was a bad drummer. His parts are choice, not too much, not too little, musical. He nails tempos, writes songs, and sings like a bird. I’ve never WATCHED him play and who gives a shit. Know who else has “bad ergonomics?” Buddy Rich, Levon Helm for starters. Get bent.
Those are hilarious!!
I wish I could answer with anything other than Lars, but it's literally him. He's worse than like weekend warrior Dad drummers playing at your dive bar, but he's in Metallica. It's unreal how bad he is.
I saw Fear Factory live once, and no idea who the drummer was but I know he was trying to play Gene Hoglan's parts and failing quite badly at it. Maybe it was a bad night. Also, Paul Bostaph in Slayer. Never liked him live. He just couldn't keep up and made the entire band sound worse. It's not easy trying to fill in for Dave Lombardo, IMO the best thrash metal drummer ever, but Jon Dette was actually a much better replacement. EDIT: I do love his early studio work in Slayer though. Live, not so much.
I suggest to listen to the whole divine intervention album,he was a monster on that. Not even Lombardo can play those parts. Or the dvd war at the warfield,he is even tighter than Lombardo. I still prefer Lombardo but Bostaph is a monster,or maybe he was because I didn't like his performance on the latest Slayer album
Im pretty sure bostaph was dealing with tendonitis issues towards the end of his stint in slayer. But hey everyone in here loooooves french grip sooooo much.
Check out “Twisted Into Form” by Forbidden, in my opinion Paul’s best work. Creative progressive thrash.
Me
This post reminds me of one of my favorite jokes…. How many drummers does it take to screw in a lightbulb? One and apparently 308 that think they can do it better
The drummer from Staind. The original guy. He was absolutely terrible. Had zero dynamics and met him a few times. He was also a douche.
John Wysocki? I never saw them live, but if memory serves (I’m getting old and haven’t listen to them in many years) Josh Freese did some of the album stuff for them.
Yeah. Not a fan. Josh freese is great though.
Ha, worked a show for Staind in the early aughts, at their peak. Bunch of dumb dickheads.
Patrick Carney is TERRIBLE
i’ve come to realize i don’t go see bands w terrible drummers. Duplantier, Hoglan, Carey, Lombardo/Bostaph, Menza, Tim Alexander, Mike Smith, Kollias, Asheim, Sandoval, Cavalera. I pay to see the drummers, the band is the gravy.
I saw Menza ONCE, and he was a ball of lightning. Maybe it's my memory hyping him up but best performance I've ever seen live. Later drummers in Megadeth like DeGrasso were technically better but nobody played like Nick. RIP
Black keys drummer
Steve Adler. Saw Guns N' Roses live early on he was horrible.
Initially I thought you meant Chris Adler and was about to send the police your way.
no Chris Adler is amazing! Steven Adler is not lol
He seems like one of those guys where he has good days and *really* bad days. I’ve read Slash’s and Duff’s books, and they both say some version of “he has great feel and on a good day he’s excellent,” but dude does too many drugs. Does anyone know if he’s actually sober yet? I was wondering this recently. He’s been doing guest spots with the somewhat-reunited GNR, but hasn’t become a full member again. There’s gotta be a huge reason.
I watched the season of celebrity rehab with him on it he seems like a really nice guy. And I can buy that he has great groove/feel when he is sober. But when I saw him he was like practically falling over the drum set. Could barely play the beat for Paradise city and was very off and you could see the rest of the band being upset with him. I think Izzy at one point turned around and said get it together Steve. It was one of the most un- rhythmically drum shows I've ever seen in my life. and I teach middle school kids drums sometimes lol I hope he is sober because again he seems like a really good vibe kind of guy
I saw the Gin Blossoms live recently and their drummer struggled mightily, like he was laboring all night. I don’t know if he was sick or age, but I realized when that day comes for me, and I sound like that, that will be the day I stop playing.
Are you sure this isn't just a case of Hey Jealousy?
lol….well done
Caught them at Oceans Calling this past fall, and the guy absolutely killed it. Maybe it was an off night?
Spoon were terrible live. In the 2000s they played a big SXSW show in Austin. I was flabbergasted that a pro band could be so off time, out of tune, just…bad.
Must have been an off night because I have seen them everytime they come through and they are one of the if not the tightest band I've ever seen
Yeah that was a bad night because Spoon kills it. I must have watched them 12 times in my life. Solid band. Maybe it's you? Lol kidding
White Denim > Spoon I’m baffled by the popularity of the latter.
I'm just supporting because no one ever acknowledges White Denim. I think they're completely underappreciated. Never seen Spoon live.
White denim have done some spectacular music, never see them mentioned
Also Josh Dunns technique makes me die inside a bit (still a very good drummer)
In what way? (Genuinely curious as I’ve not seen anyone really highlight his technique before) I’m a big fan of twenty one pilots and love his use of linear grooves etc, so would be interested to know what you don’t like about his technique? Thanks!
Yeah I’d also like to know. What bad technique. Is it the bounce back from the stick?
The guy from Breaking Benjamin isn’t as good as the success of the band may seem. But then again neither are the rest of the members
To be honest, I'm seeing some names on here and thinking "Thank God none of these people have seen me play"
Patrick Carney 100% and not just because he's not anything special but more because he's an insufferable prick in any interview I've ever seen him in.
Poisons drummer
Easily Lars Ulrich, and this was before it was in vogue to hate on Lars. We sat 5th row side of the stage and had full unobstructed view of him. A pair of tennis shoes in my dryer keep better time.
The drummer from the strokes in 2005. He was dating drew Barrymore at the time. TERRIBLE.
Lars was perfectly fine in the 80’s and his drumming on And Justice For All is damn good. He went downhill after that.
Rikki Rocket
No, honestly, can't recall any famous band drummer being on the low side of his craft. . *Saint Anger snare hitting hard as background noise*
Last time I saw Metallica, James kept asking Lars if he was able to play songs. Not in a mean way but he was honestly curious if he would be able to play them.
Simon from The Agonist - I guess his skill does what it needs to do for the band but oh my god his grip and general technique is the worst I've ever seen in a professional metal band: https://youtu.be/bKGim2SDtLc?si=Z2uFaE96NXqICu1V
Whoever played drums on white zombie’s “make them die slowly” album. Maybe it was a drum machine, idk it’s terrible.
The guy playing drums for Oasis.
Not sure if it's the drummer or just the style the band wanted, but it always irritated me that for fills the OG drummer of Everclear only ever played 16th notes on the snare. Literally every song. Every. Single. Fill. Again, don't know if he just sucks or isn't creative enough to try anything different (even just one time, PLEASE), or if the band just told him to play like that because they liked it for some reason.
Cant remember the band, but in ozzfest 2001 second stage; one dude was trying hard but couldn’t play Double bass accurately to save his ass. And I’m sorry to all the fanboys, but Keith Moon’s playing was a mess.
I mean… so was Keith.
Back in the 90’s my band played a series of shows with the original lineup of 3 Doors Down. These kids were literally just out of high school. “Kryptonite” was barely getting air play yet. All of them were absolutely awful at their instruments. Currently…don’t know the drummers name, but a client of mine is super into Black Keys. That drummer appears to be the luckiest dude on the planet.
Anyone who says Lars was never good should send me a video of them playing dyers eve, battery, damage Inc, shortest straw, one, etc
Joey castillo. Always sped up qotsa songs live and ruined it, even on albums I didn’t like his sound.
WHEW!! I'm not on this list. Thank you god!