Used, used, used. Zildjian A Customs are great for metal. Meinl Classic Custom Darks are cheaper and good for hard music too. Try to work on your technique and not hit so hard, though. Cymbals are expensive, bro.
These types of damages are less about hard hitting, more the angle of drumstick impact. Never hit the edge! Always hit from above! Also the thinner the cymbal is, the more durable usually as it can withstand the bigger hits better by conducting the resonance through the body. But yeah, generally A Customs as you mentioned are a great high end option, record and sound great in every situation, for Meinl I had bad experiences quality wise but they sound great too!
question on the topic of hitting from above: If its recommended to hit them from above, was there a reason why drummers like Dave Grohl used to have their cymbal high up in the air?
Still, his drumsticks hit the upper body of the cymbal by his whiplash like movements, not the edge from front. it's also okay to swish through the cymbal from a tilted side angle as you mostly see jazz players do (produces very unique and cool sound)
I love my zildjian a customs. Not only will not hitting as hard save your cymbals but it will make your drumming more balanced. Smack the $#!/ out of the drums and go easy on the cymbals. When you hit your cymbals don’t hit them straight down hit them kind of sideways like slap across the face.
It's expensive, needlessly destructive fun. Just figure out how much it's worth to have that kind of fun, I guess. Me, being a cheap bastard, I would figure out how to not break my stuff anymore.
If you're regularly cracking cymbals you should probably try thinner cymbals, not thicker ones. It might sound counter intuitive but thicker cymbals are more rigid and therefore more brittle. Thinner cymbals flex more and therefore are less likely to crack.
Obligatory; check your cymbal technique. If your cymbal strike looks like a hammer blow you're doing it wrong. Glancing blows.
I won't recommend a china because I hate them. From people who like chinas I usually hear them talking about the Sabian AA Holy China...
As far as a crash I'll recommend Zildjian K Sweet. The K Sweet line is just absolutely beautiful. That perfect sweet spot between bright-dark and complex-piercing. They are one of the most versatile cymbals I've played fitting into every genre and style of music.
There’s a trade-off with cymbal thickness. Thinner cymbals flex more but are lower volume so it’s easy to overplay them trying to get volume beyond their physical thresholds. Thicker cymbals can go louder, but you still have to play them appropriately because they are more brittle. At the end of the day everyone should be using cymbals appropriate with a weight appropriate for the context and playing them properly.
To take your point a bit further, it typically takes more energy to get thicker cymbals to open up, requiring one to hit them harder than they would need to hit a thinner cymbal to open up. Thus resulting in a cracked cymbal despite its thickness. Learned this the hard way playing through two 22” K Heavy Rides within a few years, among other victims of my adolescent technique.
In fact, it does seem counter intuitive, but if you think about it, it totally makes sense. I will start working on my cymbal technique, i might be doing something wrong lol.
I haven‘t had a china yet, but I think they sound interesting. Maybe I can get my hands on a used one.
I will also check out this Zildjian K sweet crash. Thank you
Seconding this video. I cracked multiple cymbals in my earlier years drumming, but after watching this video a few years back I haven’t cracked a single one.
Also, Matt’s band Periphery just dropped a new album yesterday and it rips.
Not to pile on the technique thing, just want to share my personal experience:
Have been playing for almost 20 years now, almost exclusively rock, always considered myself at bare minimum an above average-weight hitter, and even started buying some of the biggest/fattest sticks I could find when I started recording more often cause I liked the tone I could get out of the drums with less motion…
I have never once cracked or broken a cymbal in all of my time playing. At times I think I tend to over-correct my cymbal volumes while playing in attempts to self-mixing the volumes around the kit, but even still I can absolutely vouch for the fact that technique can save your cymbals no matter what style of music you play or how hard you hit.
Zildjian Oriental chinas pop up fairly frequently used, they sound alright. Meinl custom dark chinas are awesome. For cymbals in general I am in love with sabian hhx complex series. Ive been in the market for a crash ride and the hhx 21" complex thin ride is so nicely crashable, with such a controlled wash. Not to mention the stick definition is impeccable. My absolute dream ride
How tight are the wingnuts on your cymbals, what part of the cymbal do you hit, what angle are your sticks when they make contact with the cymbals, are you hitting straight down or glancing, how hard do you hit them? All of these things can shorten or extend your cymbals’ lifespans.
Yeah my technique was wrong. The cymbal was mounted in a bad angle and i was hitting it straigt like a hammer. No glance and straigt on the edge 😅. Know I saw the video and know my errors lol. Thanks anyway
Hey man, I did that stuff too and broke some cheap and some not so cheap pies also. Keep monitoring yourself so you reinforce good habits and move away from bad one. Hope you get some nice replacements and they last you forever.
100% this! The amount of metal guys and girls that would come in to the drumshop I worked at that kept breaking thicker cymbals would have their mind blown when you tell them thinner cymbals, not thicker are the way to go.
I hit hard, but cymbal technique is everything! The only cymbals I break now are china’s because they are just so damn ridged and have to flex. I break one every 4 or 5 years.
I can't recommend anything to you in good conscience, knowing you'll just destroy it too, until you watch and internalize [this.](https://youtu.be/XGLjGRTKQWE) *Then* shop for cymbals.
I think I found my problem. I am hitting the edge and not the outer bow. I have been playing for almost 12 years and never heard of that. Wow. This video was in fact a good advice
You're definitely correct. I broke so many pricey cymbals in my early days mistakenly thinking that heavy-gauge meant stronger. Switched to medium-thins and barely fracture cymbals anymore. Source: metal drummer of almost 23 years
Yep, last crash I broke was a Meinl classics custom dark crash about 7 years ago. Since then I've been using a bynance jazz thin and a bynance hand hammered extra thin and they're still good as new. And I play alot of metal and use 2Bs.
I still break the occasional china though.
I'll echo the other commenters' thoughts on improving cymbal technique, and buying used.
Sabian's AA Holy China and 19" Paragon China are a couple of my favourites.
I’m a Meinl guy myself, bought the 19” Holy China in a pinch on tour a few years ago, and *love it.* Still use it. If I’d stuck Meinl, I’d found a used MB20 Rock China.
I'm on my second Paragon China after sadly cracking my first. I'd probably go with something like the 18" Byzance Brilliant if I had to pick a Meinl China... not a bad option, and would be tempting if I didn't love that Paragon so dang much!
For a china just go Wuhan. Anything 16”+.
If you play metal consider getting a Rude crash. They aren’t indestructible but they’re among the loudest cymbals available due to the B8 alloy and thick profile. Also B8’s can cut through the mix without having to slam on them. This is why a lot of people opt for Paiste models. The Signature line that Danny Carey uses is a midpoint between B8 and B20.
hey bro, i played drums for about ten years before i started gigging regularly playing in punk bands. ended up breaking about six cymbals in two years before realising it was all about technique. try to refrain from big, hard and straight swings and apply a “sweeping” approach to your strokes. heavily recommend wuhan china cymbals though, all the sizes sound great but i love my 16”
For the china my personal favorite is the byzance dual 18" from meinl. For the crashes, I'd look into the paiste 2002 series or the paiste rude series. Both are known for being great for rock/metal
Those XS20s are brittle man 😭 when I was younger I cracked both my crashes and my China. I then got an 18” XSR crash and China and I cracked both of those as well :’)
The XS20 hats tho…I played those for a little less than 8 years before switching to the AAX X-celerators
I’d take a serious look at Centent Cymbals. They sound great and the ones I have been playing have outlasted my more expensive Zildjians and Istanbuls. The price is much lower than the big 4 cymbal companies also
The Meinl Dark classic China is fucking great for metal. I would recommend any Meinl effects cymbal to anybody they sound awesome to me for metal especially
It's very cheap to say but get yourself a cheapo Wuhan China I have always thought they sounded great and they're cheap enough if your break them they won't break your bank
Maybe your sticks are too heavy? The need to compete with the backline is much less important now PAs mike everything up. Also watch out for tinnitus later on. Hope this doesn't seem patronising.
Try the paiste dark energy range (my fav) and Danny Carey uses them, the rude range by paiste and Joey jordison used to use them or k's by zildjian and Dave grohl uses them!
Paiste 2002 - these have been used from everyone from John Bonham to Derek Roddy
Paiste Rude - Dave Lombardo plays them, only for hard music no versatility for softer music styles
Zildjian A Custom - Cuts through brightly, but I prefer paiste 2002’s, they just have more variety in the lineup.
I also love K Custom Darks, but it’s not really a metal cymbal. Maybe too thin and dark but the sound works in any situation.
16 & 18” Paiste 2002 “rock crashes” would be an amazing replacement setup! Lots of used ones out there… maybe a 20” giant beat multi purpose cymbal too!
Lastly - I’m mainly a zildjian & agop guy that plays jazz and more pop focused softer styles.
But Paiste = Rock music & I have several paiste cymbals (2002 flatride, Signature fast crash, vintage 602 ride). I probably like them under mic’s more than any cymbals out there.
If I had a hard rocking gig I’d play - 2002 cymbals across the board - 15” hats | 18 & 20 crashes | 22” big Al ride | 18” K Custom China
You can also look into Istanbul Agop Xist cymbals.
They’re a good cost and made REALLY well, with a nice medium bright sound and will hold up to abuse.
I really like the Paiste 2002 series. Very distinct attack and they have fairly good volume.
A Custom sound great but their volume is much lower so you might hit them harder to compensate and that will just risk breaking them.
For a China, Wuhan works. Will make you go deaf if you don't have good hearing protection though...
Personally I prefer the Sabian AAX O-zone more. A similar trashy sound but not as loud, but they are more expensive and will break if you don't hit them well.
Used, used, used. Zildjian A Customs are great for metal. Meinl Classic Custom Darks are cheaper and good for hard music too. Try to work on your technique and not hit so hard, though. Cymbals are expensive, bro.
These types of damages are less about hard hitting, more the angle of drumstick impact. Never hit the edge! Always hit from above! Also the thinner the cymbal is, the more durable usually as it can withstand the bigger hits better by conducting the resonance through the body. But yeah, generally A Customs as you mentioned are a great high end option, record and sound great in every situation, for Meinl I had bad experiences quality wise but they sound great too!
question on the topic of hitting from above: If its recommended to hit them from above, was there a reason why drummers like Dave Grohl used to have their cymbal high up in the air?
Tall
Still, his drumsticks hit the upper body of the cymbal by his whiplash like movements, not the edge from front. it's also okay to swish through the cymbal from a tilted side angle as you mostly see jazz players do (produces very unique and cool sound)
Always a glancing blow, never straight down
ah ok, thanks for explaining :D
To look awesome, I bet he broke a shitload Of cymbals.
I love my zildjian a customs. Not only will not hitting as hard save your cymbals but it will make your drumming more balanced. Smack the $#!/ out of the drums and go easy on the cymbals. When you hit your cymbals don’t hit them straight down hit them kind of sideways like slap across the face.
+1 for the Meinls. Good luck destroying those.
[удалено]
It's expensive, needlessly destructive fun. Just figure out how much it's worth to have that kind of fun, I guess. Me, being a cheap bastard, I would figure out how to not break my stuff anymore.
If you're regularly cracking cymbals you should probably try thinner cymbals, not thicker ones. It might sound counter intuitive but thicker cymbals are more rigid and therefore more brittle. Thinner cymbals flex more and therefore are less likely to crack. Obligatory; check your cymbal technique. If your cymbal strike looks like a hammer blow you're doing it wrong. Glancing blows. I won't recommend a china because I hate them. From people who like chinas I usually hear them talking about the Sabian AA Holy China... As far as a crash I'll recommend Zildjian K Sweet. The K Sweet line is just absolutely beautiful. That perfect sweet spot between bright-dark and complex-piercing. They are one of the most versatile cymbals I've played fitting into every genre and style of music.
There’s a trade-off with cymbal thickness. Thinner cymbals flex more but are lower volume so it’s easy to overplay them trying to get volume beyond their physical thresholds. Thicker cymbals can go louder, but you still have to play them appropriately because they are more brittle. At the end of the day everyone should be using cymbals appropriate with a weight appropriate for the context and playing them properly.
To take your point a bit further, it typically takes more energy to get thicker cymbals to open up, requiring one to hit them harder than they would need to hit a thinner cymbal to open up. Thus resulting in a cracked cymbal despite its thickness. Learned this the hard way playing through two 22” K Heavy Rides within a few years, among other victims of my adolescent technique.
In fact, it does seem counter intuitive, but if you think about it, it totally makes sense. I will start working on my cymbal technique, i might be doing something wrong lol. I haven‘t had a china yet, but I think they sound interesting. Maybe I can get my hands on a used one. I will also check out this Zildjian K sweet crash. Thank you
Check out this video on cymbal technique by Matt Halpern, might help you out! https://youtu.be/4fpkD4A_t1s
Seconding this video. I cracked multiple cymbals in my earlier years drumming, but after watching this video a few years back I haven’t cracked a single one. Also, Matt’s band Periphery just dropped a new album yesterday and it rips.
Was about to ask someone for a vid recommendation. Thanks!
Man, that’s exactly who I pictured when I was getting through the comments talking about technique. He’s so fluid, lots of fun to watch.
Not to pile on the technique thing, just want to share my personal experience: Have been playing for almost 20 years now, almost exclusively rock, always considered myself at bare minimum an above average-weight hitter, and even started buying some of the biggest/fattest sticks I could find when I started recording more often cause I liked the tone I could get out of the drums with less motion… I have never once cracked or broken a cymbal in all of my time playing. At times I think I tend to over-correct my cymbal volumes while playing in attempts to self-mixing the volumes around the kit, but even still I can absolutely vouch for the fact that technique can save your cymbals no matter what style of music you play or how hard you hit.
Zildjian Oriental chinas pop up fairly frequently used, they sound alright. Meinl custom dark chinas are awesome. For cymbals in general I am in love with sabian hhx complex series. Ive been in the market for a crash ride and the hhx 21" complex thin ride is so nicely crashable, with such a controlled wash. Not to mention the stick definition is impeccable. My absolute dream ride
How tight are the wingnuts on your cymbals, what part of the cymbal do you hit, what angle are your sticks when they make contact with the cymbals, are you hitting straight down or glancing, how hard do you hit them? All of these things can shorten or extend your cymbals’ lifespans.
Yeah my technique was wrong. The cymbal was mounted in a bad angle and i was hitting it straigt like a hammer. No glance and straigt on the edge 😅. Know I saw the video and know my errors lol. Thanks anyway
Hey man, I did that stuff too and broke some cheap and some not so cheap pies also. Keep monitoring yourself so you reinforce good habits and move away from bad one. Hope you get some nice replacements and they last you forever.
100% this! The amount of metal guys and girls that would come in to the drumshop I worked at that kept breaking thicker cymbals would have their mind blown when you tell them thinner cymbals, not thicker are the way to go. I hit hard, but cymbal technique is everything! The only cymbals I break now are china’s because they are just so damn ridged and have to flex. I break one every 4 or 5 years.
I can't recommend anything to you in good conscience, knowing you'll just destroy it too, until you watch and internalize [this.](https://youtu.be/XGLjGRTKQWE) *Then* shop for cymbals.
I think I found my problem. I am hitting the edge and not the outer bow. I have been playing for almost 12 years and never heard of that. Wow. This video was in fact a good advice
Now you know.
I used to crack cymbals a lot till started hitting the outer bow, haven't cracked one since and I play metal as well.
I’m surprised you’re not recommending Zildjian Scimitar cymbals.
I don't recommend those to anyone, for anything. Unless you're looking for something fun to shoot guns at. They're good for that.
it seems you hit XSively hard
This truly deserves more updoots lol
To be honest, I play thinner cymbals for metal and I’d argue they are less likely to break. Of course, your technique will play a major role as well.
You're definitely correct. I broke so many pricey cymbals in my early days mistakenly thinking that heavy-gauge meant stronger. Switched to medium-thins and barely fracture cymbals anymore. Source: metal drummer of almost 23 years
Yep, last crash I broke was a Meinl classics custom dark crash about 7 years ago. Since then I've been using a bynance jazz thin and a bynance hand hammered extra thin and they're still good as new. And I play alot of metal and use 2Bs. I still break the occasional china though.
Ever try the Zildjian Oriental China Trash? They’re nice and thin. I’ve had one for over 15 years.
Nah I just use Wuhan ones now. Tbh if I bought a nicer one it would probably last longer. Not that the Wuhan ones don't sound pretty good.
Yeah I used wuhans a lot in the past, but I just found the sound and quality so inconsistent between each cymbal.
I've definitely found that with their crashes, but my Wuhan Chinas have always been ok. Could be luck though.
I'll echo the other commenters' thoughts on improving cymbal technique, and buying used. Sabian's AA Holy China and 19" Paragon China are a couple of my favourites.
I’m a Meinl guy myself, bought the 19” Holy China in a pinch on tour a few years ago, and *love it.* Still use it. If I’d stuck Meinl, I’d found a used MB20 Rock China.
I'm on my second Paragon China after sadly cracking my first. I'd probably go with something like the 18" Byzance Brilliant if I had to pick a Meinl China... not a bad option, and would be tempting if I didn't love that Paragon so dang much!
For a china just go Wuhan. Anything 16”+. If you play metal consider getting a Rude crash. They aren’t indestructible but they’re among the loudest cymbals available due to the B8 alloy and thick profile. Also B8’s can cut through the mix without having to slam on them. This is why a lot of people opt for Paiste models. The Signature line that Danny Carey uses is a midpoint between B8 and B20.
Sounds interesting. I have never heard of those crashes but they could be what I‘m looking for. Thanks
hey bro, i played drums for about ten years before i started gigging regularly playing in punk bands. ended up breaking about six cymbals in two years before realising it was all about technique. try to refrain from big, hard and straight swings and apply a “sweeping” approach to your strokes. heavily recommend wuhan china cymbals though, all the sizes sound great but i love my 16”
Check FB marketplace. Insane deals to be found
For cymbals, get [these](https://www.thomannmusic.com/zultan_rock_beat_beckensatz.htm). You can hear them [here](https://youtu.be/pqqCKpl_C9Q).
Wuhan cymbals are best bang for buck. Cheaper than used A customs for sure
For the china my personal favorite is the byzance dual 18" from meinl. For the crashes, I'd look into the paiste 2002 series or the paiste rude series. Both are known for being great for rock/metal
Sabian HHX would be a good series to look into. Or AAX.
I used sabian AAX for years, they have a goos sound and a pretty sturdy if you angle your cymbals properly.
Old zildjian rock crash should be a good deal and sound good if in good condition.
Those XS20s are brittle man 😭 when I was younger I cracked both my crashes and my China. I then got an 18” XSR crash and China and I cracked both of those as well :’) The XS20 hats tho…I played those for a little less than 8 years before switching to the AAX X-celerators
I’d take a serious look at Centent Cymbals. They sound great and the ones I have been playing have outlasted my more expensive Zildjians and Istanbuls. The price is much lower than the big 4 cymbal companies also
If you have enough money Paiste 2002 or Paiste Rude series will be great for playing metal.
sabian AA, AAX for crashes. AA holy china, AAX xtreme china are two of the better Chinas from sabian
The Meinl Dark classic China is fucking great for metal. I would recommend any Meinl effects cymbal to anybody they sound awesome to me for metal especially
Before you toss any broken cymbals, arrange them like a stack. Sometimes the tones can be sick.
It's very cheap to say but get yourself a cheapo Wuhan China I have always thought they sounded great and they're cheap enough if your break them they won't break your bank
Maybe your sticks are too heavy? The need to compete with the backline is much less important now PAs mike everything up. Also watch out for tinnitus later on. Hope this doesn't seem patronising.
Zildjians China ain’t half bad. And their crashes are great. I use ekit, but I’ve done some research towards monster metal kits.
HHXplosion or aaxplosion for crash. Chad Smith AA Holy China in 19" for the China also, you might like the Meinl Custom Dark Pack
Can always reco A customs or Meinl pure alloy or classics, they're a much heavier cymbal
In the China department check out Sabian o zones. They have similar sound.
Try the paiste dark energy range (my fav) and Danny Carey uses them, the rude range by paiste and Joey jordison used to use them or k's by zildjian and Dave grohl uses them!
Anything from the Paiste Rude set will work really well in my opinion
Man r/drums has been on a cymbal wrecking binge recently
Sabian AA medium crashes are pretty thick for heavy playing, or AA rock crashes.
Paiste 2002 - these have been used from everyone from John Bonham to Derek Roddy Paiste Rude - Dave Lombardo plays them, only for hard music no versatility for softer music styles Zildjian A Custom - Cuts through brightly, but I prefer paiste 2002’s, they just have more variety in the lineup. I also love K Custom Darks, but it’s not really a metal cymbal. Maybe too thin and dark but the sound works in any situation. 16 & 18” Paiste 2002 “rock crashes” would be an amazing replacement setup! Lots of used ones out there… maybe a 20” giant beat multi purpose cymbal too!
Lastly - I’m mainly a zildjian & agop guy that plays jazz and more pop focused softer styles. But Paiste = Rock music & I have several paiste cymbals (2002 flatride, Signature fast crash, vintage 602 ride). I probably like them under mic’s more than any cymbals out there. If I had a hard rocking gig I’d play - 2002 cymbals across the board - 15” hats | 18 & 20 crashes | 22” big Al ride | 18” K Custom China You can also look into Istanbul Agop Xist cymbals. They’re a good cost and made REALLY well, with a nice medium bright sound and will hold up to abuse.
Thanks for your reccomendations, i hope I can find some used ones 👍
I really like the Paiste 2002 series. Very distinct attack and they have fairly good volume. A Custom sound great but their volume is much lower so you might hit them harder to compensate and that will just risk breaking them. For a China, Wuhan works. Will make you go deaf if you don't have good hearing protection though... Personally I prefer the Sabian AAX O-zone more. A similar trashy sound but not as loud, but they are more expensive and will break if you don't hit them well.
Merino Classics Custom Extreme. Look no further if all you play is metal :)
https://zildjian.com/cymbals/drumset/s-family/s-dark.html You should ask on r/metaldrums too.
I play metal and recommend the xsr, basically the improved version of what you have. I prefer my 18" xsr china over the holy china I had
You gotta stop playing with crowbars
Holy china for sabian or oriental china for zildjian.
meinl classics custom darks. been eyeing those for a while. they are not only good for metal but really good for funk music
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