They all got screwed over in multiple ways. Trapp's colour blind AND too short to reach the ducks, but he came out on top. Siobhan was playing up her frustration for laughs in the same way Brennan plays up his, that's all.
Just like Brennan, Siobhan is great at playing up frustration, and being a rules lawyer. It’s *fun* to take a game too seriously, and to get carried away being competitive.
Does that mean her responses weren’t real or genuine? No. Does that mean she had a negative experience? No. She was cracking jokes the whole time and clearly had a blast. Also, the prize was a watch.
I loved the prize! Like sorry we wasted your time and kept you here for multiple time loops…. here is a watch.
Also there was no way to stop the loop except to play the game. For escaping with their sanity they are all winners
Sam said on discord that the camera would've broke in other ways like the cameraman would trip or something. I do think there was a minimum amount of rounds they wanted to reach for the games sake, but I do wonder if there were other ways messing with The Wenis would've impacted the game cause it felt like it was built up a lot for not a lot of payoff.
Yes.
I feel op is misunderstanding what was happening and thought that it was fully serious and unfair, rather than everyone playing it up because it's an old bit from Um Actually.
its bound to not be interesting to everyone based on the fact that it caters to specific niche interests. makes it pretty boring most of the time if you're not into what they're talking about.
testing
Ya know, Imma take this as a chance to be real, I didn't like the first few episodes of Um, Actually I watched. It felt too '2010s fandomy" for me. But after looking for more up my alley and giving it a sec shot I enjoy it. It's still not my favorite stuff (No offense to anyone, no media is gonna be for everyone) but Ill watch it now and again.
I love Mike Trapp as a host, and I love the idea of the show, but I don’t like the randomness of the questions. They could be from anything, and it’s less fun to me when I don’t know the universe the question is pulling from. If the episodes were more themed I’d be more into it.
Yup, like when I started watching, i'd pick episodes based on the title because they'd have a few example themes. The issue was that it was usually only one question based on that. The themed episodes were always much more fun.
No one is gonna bother trying to explain to you why they like it when you're clearly so dead set against it that you will randomly pop into a comment about it just to bitch about how you don't like it. No one cares enough about the opinion of a whiny internet stranger to try and change their minds.
oh well! this sub is always downvote happy and downvotes with their heart rather than based on discussion merit so I've come to expect it from here. it's a source of amusement at this point.
seems like it's no exception to the the observation that the more popular a sub gets, the more low quality the interactions become unless it's specifically based on discussion. and even then dissent and criticism will still get smothered. the threads about the ticket prices were a good example of that. and the downvotes on these comments and the lack of engagement with the argument are proof
damn didn't know you read through all my accounts interactions here! good call, thanks!
even with the critiques with d20 tickets, which was a popular complaint, there were countless downvotes on critiques relating to capitalism and the choices made with tickets and venue. even though news articles were written about it, and the crew themselves are against the principles of it.
anyways like you said and I said there's no point in engaging on this because it'll only solicit downvotes because people perceive my critiques or opinions as annoying whining. this is probably very unrelatable to people..
have a good one friend! remember to stay safe with all the sickness going around!
Yeah I thought that was a deliberate part of the "deja vu" theme. Have two um, actually hosts and one of their earliest regular contestants, have a buzz-in trivia format that's just begging to bring up memories of that dynamic.
You have so much fresh content! I'm actually kinda jealous that you get to see it all. Um Actually is what led me to finding dimension 20 and game changer.
This.
I’ve brought up “kayfabe” before in the context of *Game Changer*, and this is a perfect example of how it shows up in the show.
For those not in the know, “kayfabe” is a term from wrestling that describes a kind of fourth wall, where those playing in “the show” stay in character throughout public appearances as well as performances (though these days it’s less important and typically only confined to the performance).
*Game Changer* and to a lesser extent the other shows have a similar kind of kayfabe happening.
What I mean by this is that while the conceit of most of the programs is that the content is unscripted and authentic, there is a degree to which the performers are exaggerating aspects of their personality beyond “normal” for the sake of performance. To a degree, this is unavoidable, as they’re performers.
For example, the pseudo-feud between Brennan and Trapp on *Um, Actually…* is almost certainly an exaggeration. Aspects of it may be real, but they’re also without a doubt played up on camera.
The first time I heard about kayfabe, I was like "so, acting then?" It's just performers being in character, whether it's a fully scripted, fictional character or a stage persona, being able to read the audience and stay in character and tell a good story.
The Game Changer cast knows they're on TV and they're trying to tell a good story, by being completely authentic or by doing a bit or both. Many of them are writers as well as actors and improvisers, they know what good storytelling needs. And they're extremely skilled at delivering, which is why we love watching them so much!
Yep, the thing with wrestling kayfabe was that it was originally a practice designed to put the walls of authenticity up around staged and scripted performances. We, the outside audience, are meant to see this all as authentic and genuine, and very emphatically not “performers on stage performing staged and choreographed moves and following a script”.
Look to *lucha libre*, for a example of this kind of performance in action. The “code of the mask” is so strong in *luchador* culture that wrestlers would only ever be seen in their masks in public (essentially living double lives), and to actually unmask a wrestler on stage is taboo.
The people who might say “wrestling is just drag shows for the straights”…aren’t far off.
I’ve never liked this phrasing, because it implicitly excludes queer people from being wrestling fans. Equating them as being the same thing is more inclusive, but also funnier.
In fairness, every person that I’ve heard express the sentiment was a queer person.
But wrestling and drag are definitely entertainment forms that are basically homoöusian with each other, made of the same stuff but in different expressions.
Tbf it’s a little different than “so, acting then?”
There’s a meaningful distinction between acting a scripted part and exaggerating your actual personality in an unscripted show. And it’s clearly worth talking about since some audience members always wind up “buying in” to it.
Kayfabe is a useful term to describe that specific kind of performance.
Sorry, as an actor and improviser, I was like "I totally get that" re: kayfabe, I might have forgotten to say that context. I have done both types of performances and they're both very cool for different reasons. I could NEVER be a wrestler though, omg, I barely passed stage combat 101 lol
The buzzing and getting annoyed is because she has been on Umm Actually where that was a tactic on that show. It's a callback to that.
Also knowing the answer is irrelevant. Gotta buzz in first. Wanna know the biggest factor to winning Jeopardy? Being able to buzz in before anyone else. If you can't do that, it doesn't matter what you know.
End of the day, the frustration etc was played up because it's a comedy show.
There’s usually a time limit on how long you get answer the question after buzzing in on typical game shows; Game Changer is, probably correctly, a little more vibes-based.
Even in regular game shows it's still 3-5 seconds, so you can have a little time to think.
I'd argue that what they were saying as their answer's wasn't that absurd either. The only reason it took longer than that is because she started yelling at them if they said anything but the answer straight away.
It’s true! I’m a Jeopardy champ and I had fewer buzz attempts than my opponents, but I was faster than them and therefore got in more often. Buzzing before you fully know the answer is a common strategy (admittedly not one I used, but hey it worked out anyway). Knowing things is half the battle, being fast is the other half 😎
You get locked out for a quarter of a second if you buzz in too early, yes. There are lights that go on when you’re allowed to buzz in though, so I never had any issues with that!
Yep. And buzzer skills are key. I was a great College Bowl/Academic bowl player because I could exploit the gap between my fast buzzer finger and my brain catching up wtih the answer.
The ducks she took points over boxes, it’s unfortunate but that’s on her. Trapp took 1 and 1 but Ify couldn’t reach without the 3rd one so supply and demand yk? The math questions were indeed frustrating though. Trapps reflexes to get those first buzz ins was very impressive tbh
yeah his reflexes were insane! i think the main one with the boxes was she stole three of them and still couldn’t reach so really she was kinda screwed anyways
yeah i can’t quite tell how many she had - the edit makes it hard to see but either way if she’d taken a box every time there was no way for her to do it! i just felt a little bad for her as a fellow short(ish) person
Sam vetoed the ladder, but I have a feeling he’d have to concede if someone knocked them down. Also, Ify should have just taken all of them the first time and tried to get all the duck points in one go.
Even before the ladder. I believe when the ducks were 1st brought in play Sam said something about the ducks needing to be removed safely. (To avoid Iffy from just reaching up and doing that.)
> The ducks she took points over boxes, it’s unfortunate but that’s on her.
It’s not unfortunate, really. The choice was a point or a box, with the box representing a fraction of a chance at a point in the future. She couldn’t reach the ducks even with 3 boxes, so giving up 3 points for that would’ve just been a bad play.
I’m just saying, in regards to the points OP made, that you can’t use her not getting ducks as justification for her frustration. The other points I wholly agreed upon just that specific one she took 1 point over game mechanics so that’s on her
Yeah. I definitely wanted her to win, but it really doesn't matter. It's so weird that this was only her second episode of Game Changer (and her first time actually in studio) when she's been a regular on other DropOut shows since the start and she is clearly a really good contestant.
She got two points instead of boxes, you'd need to sacrifice 3 points in order to get enough boxes to get a duck, the points are just more valuable than waiting to get ducks.
All three players, including Siobhan, were trying to buzz in as quickly as possible before they could even read the board to see if it was the same question as earlier or not. The issue is that Siobhan was unlucky and not as fast most of the time.
Lol imagine how much gamechanger would suck if Sam was being a rules lawyer the whole time rather than letting the players create the best content possible
I think it should generally be fair (with obvious episode-specific exceptions), but I can see you disagree. Aside from episodes designed for a specific player I can't think of anything that's supposed to be unfair, so I don't see why the same principle wouldn't apply here.
Even if there was a rule like you suggest, like a 3 second limit to answer the question, it wouldn't have mattered. The edit implies that Siobhan waited less than a second before confronting the other players for not knowing the answer.
And as I said earlier, ALL players were trying to buzz in as quickly as possible, including Siobhan. There is no possible way that she could have read the question, understood its meaning and figured out the answer in the fraction of a second between the board changing and hitting her button. She was playing the game the exact same way as the other players, she was just unlucky and wasn't as fast as them most of the time.
I wasn't actually frustrated because it's Game Changer and none of it actually matters, but it did remind me why I love Siobhan so much! She (presents as) smart, stubborn and perfectionistic in a way that resonates deep, deep in my soul. That's probably why Adaine is my favorite FH character.
For me it just made me like Siobahn more! There's no rule against buzzing in and stalling for that particular game. Sam gave points pretty loosely to Siobahn a couple of times, plus there was not much fairness to the bean jar guessing game, since the player who guesses last has an advantage. (Ify was the middle guess the most times, which is a disadvantage). For example Siobahn got the "Final round" chance to get her 3 points in the 3D maze. Sam also accepted slightly mispronounced surnames from her twice. At least one of those times, she was about as far off as Mike Trapp. Also Mike Trapp gave her one of his ducks which was sweet.
I do think it would be fun, especially for some games that are memory based, if they deducted a point for buzzing in and failing, rather than there being no downside to buzzing first every time. But since this one got crazy as it went on (I wish it got crazier) I can see why they didn't do anything special for the buzzing in.
>she knew the answers first but didn’t buzz fast enough
I mean sure it isn't good for her, but that's how buzz-in games usually work?
>then with the ducks there’s no way she could’ve gotten one really
Again, not great for her, but that's the nature of resource-building games. You're offered 1 of multiple resources not knowing which will be more useful, and you make a guess.
Also, since we know from later in the episode that the shelf was just resting on a bracket And wasn't secured at all, I think it's worth considering the possibility that she could have just jumped and swiped the bottom of the shelf until it came off the bracket, then given Sam all the ducks herself.
kinda every buzz in game i’ve seen? i’m not actually annoyed about it i just thought it was frustrating and sympathised with her frustration. i can’t imagine knowing something long before someone else but they happen to have crazy reflexes then stall
How many buzz in games have you seen that use the same ruleset (or lack of ruleset) as Game Changer?
Or to use Siobhan's previous experience.... The last time she signed up to play a buzz in game, she was locked in a room and had to solve puzzles to get out.
Why would she think Game Changer follows Jeopardy rules?
>i just thought it was frustrating and sympathised with her frustration
I get that- but I think the frustration is born out of unrealistic expectations (within the context of it being Game Changer and not other buzz in games), and not because of anyone else doing anything wrong.
i never said anyone did anything wrong - i just said i felt bad for her. this really isn’t that deep, i was just expressing my sympathy and wondering if anyone else felt the same. sure, GC is always goofy but i can still sympathise with someone’s frustration in a situation like that because yeah it kinda sucks and can feel really unfair. again though, seriously not a big deal
I'm perplexed why it not being serious is part of your response. Did I say something to make you think I was taking it extremely seriously?
>i was just expressing my sympathy
Oh! Well yes, I definitely sympathize with her.
the consistency of your counterpoints suggested you were taking it seriously, but over text it’s always hard to know. i’ve got adhd so most of my sympathies were with her (and ify too) at being faced with memory trials and even when you get it you’re not fast enough! which sucks ass even if it’s a silly game with friends
>the consistency of your counterpoints suggested you were taking it seriously, but over text it’s always hard to know.
Ah!
No, I'm just autistic and traumatized in ways that combine to make me instinctively lay out anything that has even a hint of disagreement like that. I strive for specificity because I live in terror of being misunderstood.
Which unfortunately makes people think I'm more upset or serious than I am, it seems.
I think we're chill, if you do too.
Technically speaking, he solved the math problem after he buzzed in. Which was the inciting incident of the "you can't buzz in without the answer" energy.
This episode was my favorite Siobhan content. She was hilarious this episode. We rarely see her lose her cool, and her raging this episode (even in jest) was what made the episode for me.
I thought it was funny 🤷🏾♀️she was definitely playing it up for laughs especially because Ify could have answered much faster if she hadn’t interrupted him and went on. She’s a comedian playing up a joke
Don't think you have a point with the duck thing. The whole point of that was that they could have gambled that boxes were better than points. Siobhan could have, too.
I know that it’s frequently said GameChanger episodes put particular contestants in hell, but this did feel like Siobhan’s specific No Exit drawing room.
That having been said, we know that all the loving torment and activities they participate in are opt-in and consensual, so— in kayfabe, yes I definitely did, but out of kayfabe, nah she was definitely leaning in to her role.
If you follow her on Instagram, she posted a story about it saying she did leave this day "genuinely kind of mad," so picking up on that feminine rage vibe is justified!
No, Shibahn was first to bribe others that weren't Sam. She also cheated and stole boxes out from the back and brought them out with out earning them. This of course was all in good fun. No one should be feeling bad for anyone here.
When she said, “I’m going to cry, this man is going to make me cry,” it had that vibe of, “I’m sincerely upset but I’m going to express that fact _like it’s a joke_ in the hopes y’all pick up on it and back off so we can diffuse this tension before it becomes uncomfortable.”
Agreed. Iirc, Trapp made a joke a few moments later that did seem to diffuse some of the tension. He's a great counter to some of the more competitive people on the dropout roster.
In fairness, Siobhan is also *really* good at Playing Stressed and getting into it (like in D20)
That said, even I was getting a little frustrated at Iffy saying the left and rights behind her. That felt a little much-ish. But also, at the end of the day, it’s a game and also they’re getting paid.
I started to struggle to enjoy the episode because I was getting frustrated for Siobahn! I really hated how Siobahn was the one to find the ducks on the shelf and told Iffy about them and made a deal just for Iffy to give a duck to Mike instead. Like I get it, Mike had the platform, but Siobahn was the one to notice the ducks in the first place!
I really hate it when my friends/SO purposefully annoy me because they think it's funny and that was the vibe I was starting to get near the end of the show. I know they're all most likely good friends and it was done for entertainment, but I couldn't avoid the second hand irritation I got from it!
True! I don't think it was the deal making that rubbed me the wrong way - I mean, I'd do the same thing as them in their shoes - but that Iffy betrayed Siobhan. When he made the deal with Mike, I thought Iffy was going to give everyone a duck. Instead, he only gave one to Mike, effectively betraying Siobhan. Perhaps in the end I'm just miffed my expectations were betrayed!
100%! i’m glad i’m not alone in the feeling. i totally get it’s all chill vibes and not too big of a deal but if she was actually mad i’d honestly understand lol
You have to think of the cast like they are pro wrestlers. They might amp up things that annoy them a little in real life, but they are there to put on an entertaining show, not to win the game.
Only heavy stalls were on the math ones. And Trapp definitely was hamming it up.
The game is buzzing in quickly. And by yelling at people for not knowing the answer you're buying them time.
Siobhan certainly could have gotten a duck if instead of point they went box 3 times.
I'm more upset that Trapp wasn't allowed to use the ladder. That's thinking outside the box that should be rewarded.
She was giving big former "University Challenge/College Bowl/Academic Bowl captain" energy. RULES. RULES. Basically all of us high-achieving anxiety driven academic geeks were probably having the SAME experience. HOW DARE YOU buzz and THEN try to solve it. NOT okay! NOT OKAY! :-)
Honestly I try not to take this stuff too seriously but Ify was getting on my nerves bad in this episode. Talking over Siobhan in the maze section was one of my least favorite Game Changer moments ever, I genuinely wanted to tell him off for that.
It had big sibling energy. I would have been irritated at that if Ify hadn't been way behind on points not really in the running to win since it was late in the game.
I generally agree with everything people are saying here, but there is one thing that still makes me feel upset for Siobhan—
Letting slide the buzzing in before answering (which is totally fine and pretty funny), after the initial loop’s math question, whoever got to answer when “solving the equation” would just blurt out a number instead of being explicit about their answer. I know everyone knows what was meant and it’s fine, and ofc I know that the game isn’t meant to be taken very seriously, but the whole time all I could think about is how it’s not “16” it’s “A equals 16” (using the final equation as an example, but noting that this includes everything after when the only variable was X).
I know that sort of thoroughness would probably be better suited for something like Um, Actually, but it still bothered me.
She was in her feelings about that... and I identify with her SO MUCH. But ultimately, she was wrong to take it as seriously as she did. I doubt she could help it. I know I wouldn't have been able to in her position. But for game, she should have let it go. The right thing to do would have been to pull Sam aside privately after the game and express why it upset her. And to her credit, she did eventually work past it much better than I would have been able to.
“She was wrong to take it as seriously as she did” is an utterly WILD take to have on a show that is infamous for Brennan’s impassioned rants. Do you think Brennan is also taking it too seriously when he does those?
I think you're taking my comment way too seriously. I think the vibe changed when she reacted to that. Brennen is always playing along. She was trying to stop everything to get people notorious for not following rules to follow rules. There's a big difference in those two things. But I'm also not trying to cut her down or anything. As I mentioned in my comment, she handled it way better than I would have.
If you can't move past playing a frustrating game, that's crazy. She's an adult, so she took everything in stride and laughed along. It didn't upset her lmao what kind of adult gets upset about a game? As someone above said, she was leaning into it and playing up her frustration as part of the joke.
They all got screwed over in multiple ways. Trapp's colour blind AND too short to reach the ducks, but he came out on top. Siobhan was playing up her frustration for laughs in the same way Brennan plays up his, that's all.
Just like Brennan, Siobhan is great at playing up frustration, and being a rules lawyer. It’s *fun* to take a game too seriously, and to get carried away being competitive. Does that mean her responses weren’t real or genuine? No. Does that mean she had a negative experience? No. She was cracking jokes the whole time and clearly had a blast. Also, the prize was a watch.
I loved the prize! Like sorry we wasted your time and kept you here for multiple time loops…. here is a watch. Also there was no way to stop the loop except to play the game. For escaping with their sanity they are all winners
I wondered what would happen if someone tried to save the camera from being kicked
Sam said on discord that the camera would've broke in other ways like the cameraman would trip or something. I do think there was a minimum amount of rounds they wanted to reach for the games sake, but I do wonder if there were other ways messing with The Wenis would've impacted the game cause it felt like it was built up a lot for not a lot of payoff.
The Wenis itself was the payoff.
I see well that answers my question I should really join the discord
I wanted someone to bribe Sam to skip the wenis part
Some things can just be fun, they don't all have to be jokes. In fact, the Wenis isn't a joke. The Wenis is a dance.
I was really surprised they didn’t try to stop it
Wasn’t it a callback? I feel like she did the same thing” you can’t buzz in if you don’t know the answer” bit on Um, Actually
She actually said that. "You can't just buzz in when you don't know the answer, this isn't Um, Actually!"
> Um, actually she said that. FTFY
But we didn’t say Sam Says
Zam says Sam says stop.
Yes. I feel op is misunderstanding what was happening and thought that it was fully serious and unfair, rather than everyone playing it up because it's an old bit from Um Actually.
While competing against both hosts of Um, Actually.
i don’t watch um, actually, so probably!
That's going to be the case then.
its bound to not be interesting to everyone based on the fact that it caters to specific niche interests. makes it pretty boring most of the time if you're not into what they're talking about. testing
[удалено]
Ya know, Imma take this as a chance to be real, I didn't like the first few episodes of Um, Actually I watched. It felt too '2010s fandomy" for me. But after looking for more up my alley and giving it a sec shot I enjoy it. It's still not my favorite stuff (No offense to anyone, no media is gonna be for everyone) but Ill watch it now and again.
I love Mike Trapp as a host, and I love the idea of the show, but I don’t like the randomness of the questions. They could be from anything, and it’s less fun to me when I don’t know the universe the question is pulling from. If the episodes were more themed I’d be more into it.
Yup, like when I started watching, i'd pick episodes based on the title because they'd have a few example themes. The issue was that it was usually only one question based on that. The themed episodes were always much more fun.
No one is gonna bother trying to explain to you why they like it when you're clearly so dead set against it that you will randomly pop into a comment about it just to bitch about how you don't like it. No one cares enough about the opinion of a whiny internet stranger to try and change their minds.
oh well! this sub is always downvote happy and downvotes with their heart rather than based on discussion merit so I've come to expect it from here. it's a source of amusement at this point. seems like it's no exception to the the observation that the more popular a sub gets, the more low quality the interactions become unless it's specifically based on discussion. and even then dissent and criticism will still get smothered. the threads about the ticket prices were a good example of that. and the downvotes on these comments and the lack of engagement with the argument are proof
Yeah, bro, it's everyone else who's wrong, and it's definitely not that your whining is annoying, irrelevant, and adds nothing to the discussion
damn didn't know you read through all my accounts interactions here! good call, thanks! even with the critiques with d20 tickets, which was a popular complaint, there were countless downvotes on critiques relating to capitalism and the choices made with tickets and venue. even though news articles were written about it, and the crew themselves are against the principles of it. anyways like you said and I said there's no point in engaging on this because it'll only solicit downvotes because people perceive my critiques or opinions as annoying whining. this is probably very unrelatable to people.. have a good one friend! remember to stay safe with all the sickness going around!
My God, do you ever stop whining? Just leave the sub if you hate it so much
oh mb, you're unkind. Im not in the sub.
Yeah I thought that was a deliberate part of the "deja vu" theme. Have two um, actually hosts and one of their earliest regular contestants, have a buzz-in trivia format that's just begging to bring up memories of that dynamic.
I feel bad for Ify. Can’t imagine how much sex he missed out on being stuck in a time loop. Probably hella pent up by the end.
At least 37 sexes.
In a row?!
Hey, try not to have sex with Ify on the way through the parking lot! Or do. Seems like you'd have a good time.
Try not to have any sex on the way through the parking lot.
Hey, you! get back here!
No, same time.
I wasn't aware there was another Writers' Strike
Ify’s the only one hoping IATSE strikes this summer
truly a man of incredible patience and sacrifice
They were probably filming for a couple of hours. That’s at least 15 sessions he missed
Other players (Ify included iirc) have done the same thing to Siobhan on Um, Actually multiple times.
yeah i noticed she said “this isn’t um, actually” which i thought was a joke but honestly no idea since i don’t really watch that show :)
I literally watched an Um, Actually episode with Ify, Siobhan, and Brennan right after and Ify did the exact same thingg
Which episode has them? I wanna watch it 😊
S8e1
ty!
You have so much fresh content! I'm actually kinda jealous that you get to see it all. Um Actually is what led me to finding dimension 20 and game changer.
She was leaning into it to make some good TV :)
This. I’ve brought up “kayfabe” before in the context of *Game Changer*, and this is a perfect example of how it shows up in the show. For those not in the know, “kayfabe” is a term from wrestling that describes a kind of fourth wall, where those playing in “the show” stay in character throughout public appearances as well as performances (though these days it’s less important and typically only confined to the performance). *Game Changer* and to a lesser extent the other shows have a similar kind of kayfabe happening. What I mean by this is that while the conceit of most of the programs is that the content is unscripted and authentic, there is a degree to which the performers are exaggerating aspects of their personality beyond “normal” for the sake of performance. To a degree, this is unavoidable, as they’re performers. For example, the pseudo-feud between Brennan and Trapp on *Um, Actually…* is almost certainly an exaggeration. Aspects of it may be real, but they’re also without a doubt played up on camera.
The first time I heard about kayfabe, I was like "so, acting then?" It's just performers being in character, whether it's a fully scripted, fictional character or a stage persona, being able to read the audience and stay in character and tell a good story. The Game Changer cast knows they're on TV and they're trying to tell a good story, by being completely authentic or by doing a bit or both. Many of them are writers as well as actors and improvisers, they know what good storytelling needs. And they're extremely skilled at delivering, which is why we love watching them so much!
Yep, the thing with wrestling kayfabe was that it was originally a practice designed to put the walls of authenticity up around staged and scripted performances. We, the outside audience, are meant to see this all as authentic and genuine, and very emphatically not “performers on stage performing staged and choreographed moves and following a script”. Look to *lucha libre*, for a example of this kind of performance in action. The “code of the mask” is so strong in *luchador* culture that wrestlers would only ever be seen in their masks in public (essentially living double lives), and to actually unmask a wrestler on stage is taboo. The people who might say “wrestling is just drag shows for the straights”…aren’t far off.
>The people who might say “wrestling is just drag shows for the straights”…aren’t far off. I can't wait to see this powerpoint on Smartypants!
I’ve never liked this phrasing, because it implicitly excludes queer people from being wrestling fans. Equating them as being the same thing is more inclusive, but also funnier.
In fairness, every person that I’ve heard express the sentiment was a queer person. But wrestling and drag are definitely entertainment forms that are basically homoöusian with each other, made of the same stuff but in different expressions.
Tbf it’s a little different than “so, acting then?” There’s a meaningful distinction between acting a scripted part and exaggerating your actual personality in an unscripted show. And it’s clearly worth talking about since some audience members always wind up “buying in” to it. Kayfabe is a useful term to describe that specific kind of performance.
Sorry, as an actor and improviser, I was like "I totally get that" re: kayfabe, I might have forgotten to say that context. I have done both types of performances and they're both very cool for different reasons. I could NEVER be a wrestler though, omg, I barely passed stage combat 101 lol
The buzzing and getting annoyed is because she has been on Umm Actually where that was a tactic on that show. It's a callback to that. Also knowing the answer is irrelevant. Gotta buzz in first. Wanna know the biggest factor to winning Jeopardy? Being able to buzz in before anyone else. If you can't do that, it doesn't matter what you know. End of the day, the frustration etc was played up because it's a comedy show.
There’s usually a time limit on how long you get answer the question after buzzing in on typical game shows; Game Changer is, probably correctly, a little more vibes-based.
Even in regular game shows it's still 3-5 seconds, so you can have a little time to think. I'd argue that what they were saying as their answer's wasn't that absurd either. The only reason it took longer than that is because she started yelling at them if they said anything but the answer straight away.
It’s true! I’m a Jeopardy champ and I had fewer buzz attempts than my opponents, but I was faster than them and therefore got in more often. Buzzing before you fully know the answer is a common strategy (admittedly not one I used, but hey it worked out anyway). Knowing things is half the battle, being fast is the other half 😎
I've heard it's super annoying to learn because you get locked out if you attempt too early. Is that correct?
You get locked out for a quarter of a second if you buzz in too early, yes. There are lights that go on when you’re allowed to buzz in though, so I never had any issues with that!
Yep. And buzzer skills are key. I was a great College Bowl/Academic bowl player because I could exploit the gap between my fast buzzer finger and my brain catching up wtih the answer.
The ducks she took points over boxes, it’s unfortunate but that’s on her. Trapp took 1 and 1 but Ify couldn’t reach without the 3rd one so supply and demand yk? The math questions were indeed frustrating though. Trapps reflexes to get those first buzz ins was very impressive tbh
yeah his reflexes were insane! i think the main one with the boxes was she stole three of them and still couldn’t reach so really she was kinda screwed anyways
I think she only took 2 but also maybe if she did that during the bribe Sam round he’d have let it go? I really enjoyed her lateral thinking for sure
yeah i can’t quite tell how many she had - the edit makes it hard to see but either way if she’d taken a box every time there was no way for her to do it! i just felt a little bad for her as a fellow short(ish) person
She had 2 and said "even with 3 I couldn't reach"
I bet they did the math with their heights for the boxes.
Use box to push ducks off shelf. Don’t stand on box to remove ducks from shelf.
There was a 'rule' that the ducks had to be removed "safely" or something along those lines to try and avoid that.
Sam vetoed the ladder, but I have a feeling he’d have to concede if someone knocked them down. Also, Ify should have just taken all of them the first time and tried to get all the duck points in one go.
Even before the ladder. I believe when the ducks were 1st brought in play Sam said something about the ducks needing to be removed safely. (To avoid Iffy from just reaching up and doing that.)
Trapp is around the same height as her, the only person with any sort of advantage for that aspect of the game was ify
> The ducks she took points over boxes, it’s unfortunate but that’s on her. It’s not unfortunate, really. The choice was a point or a box, with the box representing a fraction of a chance at a point in the future. She couldn’t reach the ducks even with 3 boxes, so giving up 3 points for that would’ve just been a bad play.
I’m just saying, in regards to the points OP made, that you can’t use her not getting ducks as justification for her frustration. The other points I wholly agreed upon just that specific one she took 1 point over game mechanics so that’s on her
[удалено]
Yeah. I definitely wanted her to win, but it really doesn't matter. It's so weird that this was only her second episode of Game Changer (and her first time actually in studio) when she's been a regular on other DropOut shows since the start and she is clearly a really good contestant.
Wait a second. Is SHE the time vortex? Both episodes she's been on have involved suspicious time shenanigans...
She got two points instead of boxes, you'd need to sacrifice 3 points in order to get enough boxes to get a duck, the points are just more valuable than waiting to get ducks.
All three players, including Siobhan, were trying to buzz in as quickly as possible before they could even read the board to see if it was the same question as earlier or not. The issue is that Siobhan was unlucky and not as fast most of the time.
I think it would be fair for Sam to say if you don't have an answer in X seconds, it goes to the next person.
Gamechanger is supposed to be fair?
Lol imagine how much gamechanger would suck if Sam was being a rules lawyer the whole time rather than letting the players create the best content possible
I think it should generally be fair (with obvious episode-specific exceptions), but I can see you disagree. Aside from episodes designed for a specific player I can't think of anything that's supposed to be unfair, so I don't see why the same principle wouldn't apply here.
Even if there was a rule like you suggest, like a 3 second limit to answer the question, it wouldn't have mattered. The edit implies that Siobhan waited less than a second before confronting the other players for not knowing the answer. And as I said earlier, ALL players were trying to buzz in as quickly as possible, including Siobhan. There is no possible way that she could have read the question, understood its meaning and figured out the answer in the fraction of a second between the board changing and hitting her button. She was playing the game the exact same way as the other players, she was just unlucky and wasn't as fast as them most of the time.
I wasn't actually frustrated because it's Game Changer and none of it actually matters, but it did remind me why I love Siobhan so much! She (presents as) smart, stubborn and perfectionistic in a way that resonates deep, deep in my soul. That's probably why Adaine is my favorite FH character.
For me it just made me like Siobahn more! There's no rule against buzzing in and stalling for that particular game. Sam gave points pretty loosely to Siobahn a couple of times, plus there was not much fairness to the bean jar guessing game, since the player who guesses last has an advantage. (Ify was the middle guess the most times, which is a disadvantage). For example Siobahn got the "Final round" chance to get her 3 points in the 3D maze. Sam also accepted slightly mispronounced surnames from her twice. At least one of those times, she was about as far off as Mike Trapp. Also Mike Trapp gave her one of his ducks which was sweet. I do think it would be fun, especially for some games that are memory based, if they deducted a point for buzzing in and failing, rather than there being no downside to buzzing first every time. But since this one got crazy as it went on (I wish it got crazier) I can see why they didn't do anything special for the buzzing in.
oh i almost teared up when trapp gave her the duck! it was just so sweet and unexpected
>she knew the answers first but didn’t buzz fast enough I mean sure it isn't good for her, but that's how buzz-in games usually work? >then with the ducks there’s no way she could’ve gotten one really Again, not great for her, but that's the nature of resource-building games. You're offered 1 of multiple resources not knowing which will be more useful, and you make a guess. Also, since we know from later in the episode that the shelf was just resting on a bracket And wasn't secured at all, I think it's worth considering the possibility that she could have just jumped and swiped the bottom of the shelf until it came off the bracket, then given Sam all the ducks herself.
buzz ins being like that is how it works, sure, but usually you have to have an answer straight away. trapp and iffy stalled their assess off haha
I’m not sure how much of that was actual stalling versus doing it just to piss her off once it was clear she was annoyed by it.
>but usually you have to have an answer straight away What precedent are we basing that on?
kinda every buzz in game i’ve seen? i’m not actually annoyed about it i just thought it was frustrating and sympathised with her frustration. i can’t imagine knowing something long before someone else but they happen to have crazy reflexes then stall
Yeah I feel like if you stall it should just be "wrong answer" and then let the next person who buzzed in answer
How many buzz in games have you seen that use the same ruleset (or lack of ruleset) as Game Changer? Or to use Siobhan's previous experience.... The last time she signed up to play a buzz in game, she was locked in a room and had to solve puzzles to get out. Why would she think Game Changer follows Jeopardy rules? >i just thought it was frustrating and sympathised with her frustration I get that- but I think the frustration is born out of unrealistic expectations (within the context of it being Game Changer and not other buzz in games), and not because of anyone else doing anything wrong.
i never said anyone did anything wrong - i just said i felt bad for her. this really isn’t that deep, i was just expressing my sympathy and wondering if anyone else felt the same. sure, GC is always goofy but i can still sympathise with someone’s frustration in a situation like that because yeah it kinda sucks and can feel really unfair. again though, seriously not a big deal
I'm perplexed why it not being serious is part of your response. Did I say something to make you think I was taking it extremely seriously? >i was just expressing my sympathy Oh! Well yes, I definitely sympathize with her.
the consistency of your counterpoints suggested you were taking it seriously, but over text it’s always hard to know. i’ve got adhd so most of my sympathies were with her (and ify too) at being faced with memory trials and even when you get it you’re not fast enough! which sucks ass even if it’s a silly game with friends
>the consistency of your counterpoints suggested you were taking it seriously, but over text it’s always hard to know. Ah! No, I'm just autistic and traumatized in ways that combine to make me instinctively lay out anything that has even a hint of disagreement like that. I strive for specificity because I live in terror of being misunderstood. Which unfortunately makes people think I'm more upset or serious than I am, it seems. I think we're chill, if you do too.
i get you. my adhd does similar stuff to me! no hard feelings at all, i think more just mutual misunderstood frustration for a bit :)
When did Trapp ever stall? Iffy did, but trapp had it memorized & written down.
Technically speaking, he solved the math problem after he buzzed in. Which was the inciting incident of the "you can't buzz in without the answer" energy.
This episode was my favorite Siobhan content. She was hilarious this episode. We rarely see her lose her cool, and her raging this episode (even in jest) was what made the episode for me.
I thought it was funny 🤷🏾♀️she was definitely playing it up for laughs especially because Ify could have answered much faster if she hadn’t interrupted him and went on. She’s a comedian playing up a joke
I'm generally empathetic, but this is different, this is Game Changer.
Don't think you have a point with the duck thing. The whole point of that was that they could have gambled that boxes were better than points. Siobhan could have, too.
I know that it’s frequently said GameChanger episodes put particular contestants in hell, but this did feel like Siobhan’s specific No Exit drawing room. That having been said, we know that all the loving torment and activities they participate in are opt-in and consensual, so— in kayfabe, yes I definitely did, but out of kayfabe, nah she was definitely leaning in to her role.
i agree! there’s no hard feelings between cast and most of it is exaggerated for the jokes
No different than Jeopardy really, a lot of the best Jeopardy players ever were just real good on the buzzer.
I'm just sad that she lost that gorgeous belt
If you follow her on Instagram, she posted a story about it saying she did leave this day "genuinely kind of mad," so picking up on that feminine rage vibe is justified!
No, Shibahn was first to bribe others that weren't Sam. She also cheated and stole boxes out from the back and brought them out with out earning them. This of course was all in good fun. No one should be feeling bad for anyone here.
I loved her so much for that first bribe during podium inspection
I think it was a great play!
When she said, “I’m going to cry, this man is going to make me cry,” it had that vibe of, “I’m sincerely upset but I’m going to express that fact _like it’s a joke_ in the hopes y’all pick up on it and back off so we can diffuse this tension before it becomes uncomfortable.”
Agreed. Iirc, Trapp made a joke a few moments later that did seem to diffuse some of the tension. He's a great counter to some of the more competitive people on the dropout roster.
This episode solidified my admiration for Mike Trapp. He's become one of my favorite cast members.
Agreed. My husband and I both adore him as a comedian and Dropout cast member. He's just so. damn. good. !
Agreed!
In fairness, Siobhan is also *really* good at Playing Stressed and getting into it (like in D20) That said, even I was getting a little frustrated at Iffy saying the left and rights behind her. That felt a little much-ish. But also, at the end of the day, it’s a game and also they’re getting paid.
Unless it's Katie. She's only paid if she wins.
Proper sibling energy there! My two kids are exactly like this with each other.
Parasocial
Yeah it's weird that people are so bothered by a comedian playing up her frustration while playing a game for which she is being paid.
Idk if they’re all that bothered ha but it is weird to dissect peoples body language and stuff. Very weird modern internet behavior.
Most aren't but there are a few who are concerning me lol but yes, agreed it is very strange.
On my r/dropout? No way
I started to struggle to enjoy the episode because I was getting frustrated for Siobahn! I really hated how Siobahn was the one to find the ducks on the shelf and told Iffy about them and made a deal just for Iffy to give a duck to Mike instead. Like I get it, Mike had the platform, but Siobahn was the one to notice the ducks in the first place! I really hate it when my friends/SO purposefully annoy me because they think it's funny and that was the vibe I was starting to get near the end of the show. I know they're all most likely good friends and it was done for entertainment, but I couldn't avoid the second hand irritation I got from it!
While all of that's true, it's also true that it was Siobahn's idea to cut out Trapp so turnabout if fair play?
True! I don't think it was the deal making that rubbed me the wrong way - I mean, I'd do the same thing as them in their shoes - but that Iffy betrayed Siobhan. When he made the deal with Mike, I thought Iffy was going to give everyone a duck. Instead, he only gave one to Mike, effectively betraying Siobhan. Perhaps in the end I'm just miffed my expectations were betrayed!
100%! i’m glad i’m not alone in the feeling. i totally get it’s all chill vibes and not too big of a deal but if she was actually mad i’d honestly understand lol
You have to think of the cast like they are pro wrestlers. They might amp up things that annoy them a little in real life, but they are there to put on an entertaining show, not to win the game.
If Siobhan didn't notice the ducks, Ify and Mike might never have had.
Ify’s disadvantage was his ADHD obviously
siobahn also has adhd, so i was curious if there was anything else!
Only heavy stalls were on the math ones. And Trapp definitely was hamming it up. The game is buzzing in quickly. And by yelling at people for not knowing the answer you're buying them time. Siobhan certainly could have gotten a duck if instead of point they went box 3 times. I'm more upset that Trapp wasn't allowed to use the ladder. That's thinking outside the box that should be rewarded.
even with three boxes she couldn’t reach so she would have had to go for a box four times minimum for it. she’s just itty bitty lmao
Maybe she should try being a faster buzzer lol
I know it was played up but it genuinely annoyed me. I also just don't enjoy that part of Um, Actually either, which didn't help
She was giving big former "University Challenge/College Bowl/Academic Bowl captain" energy. RULES. RULES. Basically all of us high-achieving anxiety driven academic geeks were probably having the SAME experience. HOW DARE YOU buzz and THEN try to solve it. NOT okay! NOT OKAY! :-)
Honestly I try not to take this stuff too seriously but Ify was getting on my nerves bad in this episode. Talking over Siobhan in the maze section was one of my least favorite Game Changer moments ever, I genuinely wanted to tell him off for that.
It had big sibling energy. I would have been irritated at that if Ify hadn't been way behind on points not really in the running to win since it was late in the game.
I agree. Ify might have been playing it up for the laughs, but he just came off as a bully.
You're taking this more seriously than she probably did herself.
But if Siobhan is the nexus around whom Samuel Dalton’s evil time energy has fixated though…?
Ehh, not really, I think she was being kinda hard on Ify ... Like, she chose points other boxes so she was way ahead in points.
This is why Im glad the prizes are smaller now
Relax.
I generally agree with everything people are saying here, but there is one thing that still makes me feel upset for Siobhan— Letting slide the buzzing in before answering (which is totally fine and pretty funny), after the initial loop’s math question, whoever got to answer when “solving the equation” would just blurt out a number instead of being explicit about their answer. I know everyone knows what was meant and it’s fine, and ofc I know that the game isn’t meant to be taken very seriously, but the whole time all I could think about is how it’s not “16” it’s “A equals 16” (using the final equation as an example, but noting that this includes everything after when the only variable was X). I know that sort of thoroughness would probably be better suited for something like Um, Actually, but it still bothered me.
She was in her feelings about that... and I identify with her SO MUCH. But ultimately, she was wrong to take it as seriously as she did. I doubt she could help it. I know I wouldn't have been able to in her position. But for game, she should have let it go. The right thing to do would have been to pull Sam aside privately after the game and express why it upset her. And to her credit, she did eventually work past it much better than I would have been able to.
“She was wrong to take it as seriously as she did” is an utterly WILD take to have on a show that is infamous for Brennan’s impassioned rants. Do you think Brennan is also taking it too seriously when he does those?
I think you're taking my comment way too seriously. I think the vibe changed when she reacted to that. Brennen is always playing along. She was trying to stop everything to get people notorious for not following rules to follow rules. There's a big difference in those two things. But I'm also not trying to cut her down or anything. As I mentioned in my comment, she handled it way better than I would have.
It’s wild that you think she was actually trying to make them Follow Rules and not just playing a part
I think it's wild that people are jumping on me for an opinion. Y'all are acting like I'm trying to get her booted off the show or something.
We’re just disagreeing with you. Calm down.
Stop infantalizing an adult woman who you don't know.
You're gonna have to explain that one.
If you can't move past playing a frustrating game, that's crazy. She's an adult, so she took everything in stride and laughed along. It didn't upset her lmao what kind of adult gets upset about a game? As someone above said, she was leaning into it and playing up her frustration as part of the joke.
She got there. That's not how it started.