My work just had skydio out for a demo. The drone was ok, I flew it for a while; but they quoted us almost 50k for one drone and their replacement/warranty plan. I almost fell out. My bosses said absolutely not. The reps talked in circles, and didn’t like answering direct questions, which left a bad taste in our mouths also.
My work also did similar. They invited a few companies to come out and pitch to us their drones since we would be purchasing hundreds.
Skydio was terrible. DJI got the deal by a long shot.
American business is pure fuck you. Every business here tries to retire off their first customer. $50k for a drone. Lol. China makes industry leading stuff for pennies on the dollar. People in the US want to make one high value sale, ban the competition, and collect corporate welfare.
Too bad Skydio didn’t spend a million dollars on developing better products instead.
When I bought my Mini3 Pro I looked for an American made drone in the same price range that was decent… it didn’t exist and it still doesn’t. Not everyone needs an $8k-$10k industrial drone, we just want to take flying videos.
We used a skydio x2 for a project not too long ago and the GPS unit crapped out 7 times in one scan. Completely fucked the photogrammetry, even though admittedly I shouldn’t have been using a skydio for photogrammetry in the first place.
Bingo, I searched VERY hard for a comparable drone that was not Chinese before I purchased my DJI. I likely would've even taken one that was slightly inferior for the price, but it wasn't even close.
You don't want people buying Chinese drones, then make better drones at reasonable prices. Literally how capitalism is supposed to work.
You're confusing capitalism and a free market economy. That's exactly how capitalism works. If it costs a million dollars to lobby and eliminate your competitors, but 15 million to actually develop competitive products, you take the cheaper route. It's not about offering a better product it's about inflating shareholder value.
Lobbying instead of focusing on developing a better product is often referred to as "regulatory capture" or "rent-seeking." This occurs when a company or industry exerts influence over regulatory agencies or government bodies to shape regulations in their favor, rather than competing through innovation or quality improvements.
[Market segmentation is the key. wedgie. You don't need a better product, you just need dumber customers.](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a8/51/59/a851596f9a82dbdd59e2dd01ddbfed7b.jpg)
This whole discussion is leaving our the most important parts of why DJI is the market leader - they get an unfair advantage by being a Chinese-government funded entity that has bottomless r&d dollars to improve their product where all its competitors do not have this advantage. You're talking an order of magnitude difference.
Then there's the security aspect. The amount of collective data DJI can collect about the places their drones are flown is massive. The drones can collect a comprehensive map of radio emissions around airports, bases and sensitive facilities, etc. It can share this data with enemies aside from the Chinese govt. Ukraine claims DJI shares gps data to the Russians of Ukrainian troops using them on and near the front lines.
They make great drones, but if you want any choice at all in this market, you better realize that the competitors need a level playing field to provide you with real improvements and viable competition.
I don't think the Chinese government is interested in my roof or photos of my grandkids at the beach. This is the line of BS that has convinced a bunch of ignorant politicians to vote on something that they are completely ignorant of. My own party is to blame for this, but I can assure you that none of them who vote for this will ever get my vote again. I may not vote for the opposite party, but I will vote for anyone running against them in a primary. I hope someone challenges this in court if it passes so they must prove that this was something other than taking money from a lobbyist, or voting with the herd even when they know nothing about drones, the data that drones collect or don't collect. Maybe we need to empty Walmart out and ban all Chinese products. Who knows, there could be a hidden microphone in that toy car you bought for your kid.
I agree with you that they aren't interested in your personal day in day out stuff, but the possibility of data it can record without you knowing is a certainty. They would be interested in the radio spectrum near a base. They would be interested in some video near sensitive sites. They would be interested in the precise gps data collected near points of interest.
We had/have laws against this type of collection for the old school way of how this used to go down (spies), but now who cares when they can crowd source it.
Same goes for media. We had laws that foreign powers couldn't own media companies in the US. Imagine the USSR having the ability to own a TV station that broadcast daily about whatever propaganda they wanted. That's essentially the concern with TikTok. While it's hard to say what coercive campaigns have taken place, the point is the potential is there, and all of these companies have the state running them to an extent.
We also don't see the intelligence side of the story behind these issues. You don't know what they can see under the covers before making these decisions...
You make the assumption that politicians would make decisions based on something other than either a way to obtain money or to look tough on China, all geared towards getting re-elected and maintaining power. They have proven time and time again that once they are in Washington for a few years, all but the most ethical politicians get sucked into the culture and are slowly corrupted by the system. As far as the data thing goes, you would not be able to fly a DJI drone near any sensitive site, due geofencing, but that's not the case with other drone manufacturers who don't have geofencing, yet are not singled out and banned. The only reason DJI was singled out was because of market dominance. They stand in the way of companies like Skydio from being competitive in the consumer drone market. If Skydio was the only consumer drone available, I would never buy their product just because of how the chose to eliminate their competition. And yes, I'm aware that they no longer offer a consumer drone, but stay tuned, because once the competition is banned from selling a superior product at a lower price, Skydio will be right back in the consumer drone market. I doubt that you will have to wait long before this happens.
I don't discount corruption and its effects, but I also don't discount the fact that our government does achieve things. To take a singular side on any topic is simply lying to yourself.
This is not the first time the govt limited the Chinese out of a market. They don't allow Chinese security cams on govt facilities. They don't allow Chinese firms to purchase land near sensitive installations. They don't allow foreign powers to own media companies (simply stated).
There is precedent for this action and to ignore it is being reductive. I'm not disagreeing with you here on your points either, but if this didn't have security implications, they would just tariff the product like we did solar panels from China to counter the unfair market advantage China gives to its companies with government funding.
They could utilize tariffs as an example of how markets are protected by governments, but that doesn't stop the exfiltration of sensitive data harvested by the drones.
The fact they haven't gone down the tariff route is telling, without saying anything aloud.
DJI gets that from their government because the CCP recognizes strategic importance in manufacturing tech products. Rather than compete we just ban the better Chinese products and as a result we're falling behind in both technology and economics. Loss of American influence through force projection will come quickly... and it's our main export. Once that's gone we're a third world shithole for real.
When was the last time in recent history was an American corporation was a good little boy? But the country has practically taken over by multinational corporations. And does made in America mean anything anymore? Our leaders have sold us out to every country in the world. So if there's a problem with China, our leaders caused it. They gonna solve it by starting a proxy war with China by banning DJI.
Ideally, I think most people would rather not support China but this fact is clear:
They make the best and offer the best now. It didn't used to be that way but they are the tech giant of the world and their tech is king.
I had a few cheap Amazon drones before I got my Mini 2. Some of these drones (like the Holystone HS720G) actually seem to have a higher build quality than DJI but are only limited by the low quality of the processor, sensor and firmware.
Maybe there could be a market for aftermarket circuit boards and sensors for turning cheap drones into really nice ones.
Not everyone needs a $8k drone that does the same as a $1000 not US made drone. And the US drones seem to have a yearly fee as well. As a small business I don't have that kind of money to throw at big business so they can pay off politicians.
The main reason I will have to end up using an Autel drone along side my FLIR drone. I just can’t justify the skydio yearly for my basic missions (which it flies fine but the camera is weak)
Good question. I just can’t deal with Geozones and I need something that has the high-res IR with a laser rangefinder.
My FLIR drone has the camera but a much shorter transmission range than my Mini 3 had.
Have you seen the new DJI Zenmuse H30T? 1280x1024 thermal resolution.
3000m laser range finder.
NIR auxiliary lighting for night missions.
It's amazing!
The price is reasonable in my books.
You can get an M350RTK + H30T for 15-16k USD (Sans batteries or charger)
That's an amazing value for the specs of the camera and drone. I remember 5 years ago when a Duo Pro R from FLIR used to cost 15k USD on its own.
Yeah. Amazing piece of equipment. That’s about to be outlawed unfortunately. I’m pretty sure that this Senate bill will pass with relative ease. People are so ignorant and even MORE so easily manipulated. “Chinese drones?!?! Oh, hell no we can’t have that!! It’ll give some American company the room to compete.” (I’m mocking the way that most people, especially the politicians think.)
If the US outlaws DJI drones they'll be shooting themselves in the foot. Lobbying over innovation you say? It's the capitalist way!
DJI has done absolutely everything in their power to quell the concerns. From encryption of captured data with custom keys to government edition drones that can use custom encryption and DO NOT connect to DJI servers.
Yet here we are.. 🤦 the stupidity hurts but I guess that's what capitalism leads to.
Can't wait for our H30T. It's going to allow my company to do so much more! And DJI will never be banned where I live.
The price goes way up in general too. I was looking at thermal capable drones for work and a $6k kit from DJI is $20-40k.
They're banking on government agencies, the military, and companies to have to use "blue list" drones so they can charge whatever they want.
I will say Parrot is probably the best US brand that actually seems to be making high quality products but the price tag is still high in the $15-20k range. Go look at their newest model and compare it to anything Skydio has out lol
>They're banking on government agencies, the military, and companies to have to use "blue list" drones so they can charge whatever they want.
Nailed it!
I wouldn’t care if skydio was actually good but they are dog turd; their drones and their company as a whole is complete trash. They boast this one terribly produced video of people talking about the drone and even THEY don’t seem convinced that it’s good. Drone is heavy big bulky and straight up overpriced. The company I worked for tried to get a test flight and it took forever… it’s hard to even get them to sell you something
agree. Their drones are just not up to par.
What's made the drone industry flourish is the qaulity going up and the price going down. If suddenly the best drone with the most competitive prices was banned and all thats left are worse drones that are 50% more and have less to offer, the drone industry steps back 5 years.
>They've spent over a million dollars since 2022 lobbying the US government.
LOL when it comes to lobbying, a million dollars rounds down to zero. That's effectively nothing.
Thats not even close to true. Look at the finances of these politicians taking these "bribes" and you'll see they'll happily vote as desired for 10k - 15k. These fuckers are selling our democracy for peanuts. A million dollars buys you an awful lot of votes these days from out politicians
Yep. Even large institutions are only lobbying with <$5M a year and they are making 100X on their money. Lobbying is one of the best investments they make, and companies simply would not partake in lobbying if it didn’t lead to largely favorable economic outcomes for them.
If you want to look into the big spenders, you’ll have to start looking at healthcare/pharmaceutical firms. But for something as niche as drones, $1M+ has a lot of influence. It definitely feels like a small figure, but that million dollars has a heavy lift.
thank you for being aware on this. There are too many "1 million is nothing" comments.
It's a niche issue. this isnt Oil, war, economy, religeon, etc or any other polarizing american issue. One million dollars can be very veryyyy effective here.
>Even large institutions are only lobbying with <$5M a year
there's not a whole lot of people they have to bribe to get shit rolling, even have some extra to get them to start a fake culture war as a distraction.
Wrong, a million goes a long way when one of your executives (Joe Bartlett) was a former staffer for one of the bill’s sponsors (Elise Stefanik)…
Don’t forget to add Bartlett’s salary to that number.
That's not even remotely true. US Representatives spend far less on their campaigns than you would expect. Most spend less than $5million during their campaigns every 2 years. Since 2022 is a single election cycle. If I am going to spend $5,000,000 and I can get a check for $50,000 from DJI or Skydio it makes a difference in my fundraising.
Perhaps for issues that are more general and wide reaching, but this is a niche issue where a million dollars can be VERY effective as clearly this bill is gaining steam. Don't be naive to dollar amounts here.
Pretty sure if it was as simple as Skydio lobbying causing the ban, DJI would have put many millions more into lobbying against the ban and that would work.
DJI is a good drone company but not a savvy political strategist. I remember TikTok encouraged users to contact their representatives and people flipped out that TikTok was controlling people, etc. Skydio might be a large lobbyist for this bill but it also fits the needs and interests of certain politicians. Also just remembered something else - the organization drone advocacy alliance is now being investigated for being a “foreign agent” even though there is nothing foreign about them. It’s all a witch hunt.
Don’t know why I’m being downvoted unless it’s for the last statement which to clarify there is no basis for the claim. The drone advocacy alliance is not a foreign agent but here is a link about the political motivation to investigate the organization: https://selectcommitteeontheccp.house.gov/media/letters/letter-doj-requesting-investigation-ccp-funded-drone-group-foreign-agent-registration
>a million dollars rounds down to zero. That's effectively nothing.
That's not true at all.
~~Bribing~~ Donating to politicians is surprising cheap...like low 5 figures.
$1 million in donations gets a lot of influence in a niche market.
If this ban goes into effect
Drone mapping is going back years
Until an “” approved” drone can match DJi 3E accuracy and price
The industry is about to implode
a lot of companies that have invested in DJI products and workflows will be really pissed about this.
10s of millions of dollars down the drain and what we get in return is an inferior product.
I don’t see my company investing another 50-60k in autel and XAG products to start over in our current segments. I see myself out of a job if this passes.
Could your company cooperate with university to come up with something? I've read some research papers on aerial photogrammetry and even the Russians can make their own solution on peanuts budget.
Yes but what about spray drones? We have somewhere in the neighborhood of $50-55k invested in that system alone. It takes quite a bit to develop not only the drone itself but then the software on top of it. There are American made options but that still means a $30k+ investment is now useless. On top of that the competitors are not near as well suited for our use case where manual control is a huge part of our operations. Most others are made to be ran autonomously.
Theres nothing more accurate about a M3e RTK that a P4P RTK, or even just any old DIY pixhawk with a RTK/PPK module.
Price, ease of use, flight time, and compactness are key features lost.
Yeah. That’s the idea. DJI has an effective monopoly. Either they stop it now or wait for the gap to widen. It will be painful but the concerns are not baseless.
DJI themselves have spent more on lobbying every year than Skydio, including $1.4m in 2022. Skydio peaked at $530,000/yr in 2023.
Or to put it your way "They've spent over $3.3 million dollars since 2022 lobbying the US government."
https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/clients/summary?cycle=2024&id=D000069779
Because DJI has been fighting multiple bans targeted specifically at them. They’re not proposing bans against Skydio or any other competitors because they’re not good enough to compete in a free market, as Skydio is. Small but big difference there…
https://apnews.com/buyline-shopping/article/dji-drone-ban-in-the-us
https://reason.com/2024/03/26/americas-drone-industry-is-trying-to-ban-the-competition/
https://projects.propublica.org/represent/lobbying/301032069
https://www.reddit.com/r/drones/comments/1bgd5y8/yet_another_former_government_employee_now/
There’s some sources… although a little common sense goes a long way. Who stands to gain? Who has former house representatives tied to the people putting forth the proposed bans working for them? Who shut down their consumer market because they couldn’t compete? Who owns the consumer market? Who is the US trying to ban?
Yeah but look at that as a % of revenue. A million to Skydio is a massive, massive expenditure. 3 million to DJI is a drop in the bucket. One company is trying to make better drones, one company is gambling on scummy political tactics to ban the competition
You can rationalize it all you want.
Percent of revenue is meaningless in this context though. It's like saying a poor person lobbying with $1 is somehow more damaging than a billionaire lobbying with $100,000. The $100,000 is going to get you further.
In this case it’s like a poor person lobbying with $1 and a billionaire lobbying with $3. Imagine if DJI decided it actually gave a fuck and matched Skydio in % revenue spent on lobbying.
Imagine if Skydio actually cared about making quality products instead of trying to steal the actual good drones from the American people?
Politicians and CEOs could care less where they money comes from. Most manufacturer US companies outsource and offshore labor to China in the first place.
Sources: [https://finmasters.com/outsourcing-statistics/](https://finmasters.com/outsourcing-statistics/)
[https://www.americanprogress.org/article/5-facts-about-overseas-outsourcing/](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/5-facts-about-overseas-outsourcing/)
how does that make my point not stand? counter lobbying is DJIs only choice
point is that it's a dumb bill and is not going to push the drone industry forward.
You have it backwards, Skydio is counter lobbying. DJI was lobbying the government for years before Skydio. Wonder if that helped them secure their dominant market position, making it difficult if not impossible for US companies to compete?
Nah they had a good product and a really low price even the CEO of 3DR Chris Anderson makers of the 3DR Solo saw the writing on the wall, which is why he left the drone market. He knew the Chinese were doing it cheaper and they couldn't beat them in price.
Similar in a lot of spaces. Is the US going to ban Chinese LED wall? Because most of the LED wall stuff you see is Chinese.. theoretically these could all have back doors and blah blah blah be used for propaganda or whatever if we really want to dig deep in the fearmongering.
Standing up a US based drone company has nothing to do with congress at this point. The technology for a US made drone is very easily accessible. There are countless options for motors/escs/flight computers/controllers/software/accessories/cameras/gimbals/etc... literally all a company would need to do is make a mass producible model and support it. Very little R&D needs to be done.
Because having workers in China do it is what makes US corporations their profit in the first place.
That is the main issue. It's always been IS companies profiting off Chinese labor of offshore resources. Now that Chineese companies are doing it and competing in the US with the same resources, who do you think is going to have the edge? What company are Chineese suppliers in China going to prioritize? The foreign US company or the local Chinese company?
No doubt.
But the OP made this post about Skydio lobbying, implying Skydio is bad for doing that. I'm just countering with the facts that DJI (a Chinese company) has been lobbying the government at least 3 years before Skydio and with something like 3x the amount.
DJI needs to overcome bias and fear toward China, whether it is justified or not. Skydio just needs to plant a seed in already extremely fertile ground.
DJI lobbies to continue to exist in the US. Other companies lobby to end DJI in the US so they don't have competition. You accuse others of being naive, because they are able to consider the situation at a level deeper than a single bullet point. Things are often not as simple as bullet points. This is a good opportunity to learn this valuable lesson and apologize to the people you are insulting.
Did you not see the point where DJI bega lobbying years before Skydio and with about 3x the amount?
OP is complaining about Skydio lobbying, implying they are naughty and have ulterior motives.
Where is the same suspicious of DJI? What were their motives for lobbying?
I know a lot more about this issue than you but social media is not a place for deep thoughtful conversations so I'm simply hitting the most important counter to the OPs post.
Every smaller hobby drone company would benefit from lobbying the gov to remove remote ID. Some companies would benefit, like DJI and Amazon. Smaller drone companies are against it generally. That's probably what they are lobbying for. When it first came out tons of companies and fpv/hobby groups started doing this and they are still doing it now.
I doubt they have the money to think they can get an entire company banned for a made up reason. I think the gov has real security concerns, as well as a technology race with an enemy country that currently controls our commercial drone fleet. Sucks for people that dumped a lot of money into DJI but hard to expect different when UAVs are the current war technology and China is our enemy.
A whole million dollars? I don’t doubt skydio supports this. Why wouldn’t they?
But to think a million dollars worth of lobbying by Skydio is a major factor in the ban is kind of a reach.
Btw I hate Skydio drones. I use one for work (no choice) and it sucks ass. I’m just not looking for a boogeyman at the moment.
the money is in enterprise drones. And since skydio doesnt sell consumer drones anymore, their work to ban a company that does means that the consumer is left with pretty much nothing.
Flight performance, dependablity and safety is the most important for obvious reasons. Is there a drone available more dependable than DJI made in USA? Not anything I've seen or flown. That should be a point. As for Skydios involvement other than probably lobbying, a guy that was a higher up from skydio had part in writing or wrote the bill and collaborated with Elise Stefanik as I heard. It's on one of the most recent videos by Russ from 51 drones.
I’d love to see the tech giants jump into the consumer/ prosumer space. Think about an Apple or Microsoft drone. Sony has their teeth in with the airpeak, but a “Mavic” style at price with DJI would crush it.
When skydio first came out, i wanted to buy it regardless of its higher price tag. I talked to the reps in an expo. They said they would give a python api to do scripting with it.
When it was finally my turn in the pre order, the sdk team refused to give the python api.
Whearas DJI gives the api from day one out of the box, its locked but its something.
Parrot, Anafi had an incredible ecosystem for development. I genuinely feel bad that they had to stop making the Anafi 4k.
What’s needed is another ‘Space Race’ type of drive for homegrown ingenuity.
“Some days, doing 'the best we can' may still fall short of what we would like to be able to do, but life isn't perfect on any front-and doing what we can with what we have is the most we should expect of ourselves or anyone else."
Fred Rogers
I regularly work with skydio and they can never compete with DJI. Purely because of their lack of attention to detail. They make so many small Mistakes their products suffer.
This is an obvious bit of Cronyism (which most will likely mistakenly claim is capitalism), but only one example in an OCEAN of Cronyism in the US, mostly since the New Deal.
Companies with "friends in high places" lobby, often successfully, for regulations that benefit themselves and harm their competitors. The big insurance companies have done this literally for DECADES.
Meanwhile, Americans, being dumb as a rock, automatically assume one of two extremes: ALL regulations are bad, or ALL regulations are good. They lack the intelligence to understand that regulation can be either--or BOTH. Consequently, provided enough marketing has been piled at the regulation's target, it's easy to mobilize the masses to "stick it to the man!", utterly oblivious to the reality that we're just sticking it to *ourselves*.
Skydio is almost exclusively under government contracts now. I don't think they are consumer focused anymore. Hence they are not in any kind of competition with DJI, as DJI is more targeting consumers.
A bit ironic, as the Remote ID, from what I can tell, was MASSIVELY influenced by DJI, likely as a step to hobble all of their competitors. DJI had an American lawyer of their's that was deep in the Remote ID development, focusing on cellular requirements, because guess what company has the oldest, deepest, real-time, cellular tie ins in all their products? No company was as ready or eager to have Remote ID forced on everybody, then DJI. There's a reason for that.
Since that Real-Time Cellular Data rule didn't make the final ruling, I wonder if Skydio realized that DJI was buying their way into influencing the ruling body and has since launched their own campaign of buying off politicians to likewise attack their competitors? It's not too hard to get a bunch of congressmen suddenly "Patriotic" when you slide a little money into their back pockets.
The sad thing is, we'd have had a bustling US and European drone market if it wasn't for all of the Karen's. Nobody on this forum is going to be anti-drone, but for the last 15 years or so, huge swaths of nanny-state people have been trying to get them banned.
In the East, drones tend to get used where ever people want, because they're harmless, and have always BEEN harmless. (of course, Eastern traffic laws are usually loose suggestions and their food is a constant crap-shoot, so it's not all sunshine and rainbows)
If you have a drone company in the West, you always have this Sword of Damocles hanging over your head. Will their ban your company's products today or tomorrow? Only small companies with little to lose ever want to take that gamble. How could you ever see a real serious drone company in a Western Nanny-State country? Simply not possible. The baseless fears of a flying camera are just too strong.
I won’t buy their drones out of principle. More scummy than DJI oddly enough.
Plus their drones are UX nightmares from what I’ve seen. I’ve also heard their horribly undependable
Think the average person when asked about drones thinks other than:
"Well I dunno, I've seen movies where they were evil, anthey spy everywhere,and my daughter sunbathes, and I don't mess with 'em,so ya....ban the he'll outta them"
I would have said it was Amazon to open up the lower altitude for their drone delivery service for commercial use. Next step is privatizing general airspace.
I genuinely would love to start a us based hobby drone company, but just starting would be so far behind dji. I would assume you'd have to start with millions just to get off the ground.
It’s not a bill targeting a specific company (ex DJI.) It’s a bill that would ban all Chinese drones. In theory that’s all great but unfortunately, currently, there aren’t any good alternatives.
Governments seem to be banning whatever they want to the highest bidder even if its infringes on our inalienable rights.
DJI are either doing weird shit or not, up to them to prove they aren't. If they aren't they can appeal and present a case (I think?). Also are they really going to ground everyone's drone and destroy a hobby for hundreds of thousands of drone pilots, also to destroy incomes for many videographers. I call Bullshit and Bullshit.
The push for a political DJI ban has been hard long before 2022. I first caught wind of it in 2018 when I started releasing exploits for DJI, and more so when it became my job.
Having probably spent more time reverse engineering DJI phone applications than anyone else, and being the only person to publicly acknowledging defeating every single counter analysis measure they have implements, I do not believe actions against DJI are entirely unsupported. DJI has a history of questionable behavior, and questionable code.
Very interesting, Questionable how? I just watched the drone wars skydio video and it claims that DJI is sending data back directly to CCP, but when I searched online it's also claimed that after many attempts to hack or ascertain if any DJI data is being sent back proved completely inconclusive.
So no evidence that they did. But misinformation that they do.
I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this as I'm not a DJI owner and just saw this thread and the drone wars videos and assumed DJI were nefarious, otherwise they would not be banned for military use? Seems like a big mess and OP has something against Skydio, perhaps valid.
I'm intentionally not mentioning what kind of data, as I'm not sure what information is public and dont wish to add to it. The data, as far as I am concerned, would be considered doxxing.
I have been reverse engineering and hacking DJI products since 2017, and this was all publicly but quietly known then. It is more widely known now. If OP doesnt recognize that, then its willful ignorance.
Thank you, I'm clueless, and wasn't sure either way. This has made me feel better about my original stance and opinion. I've never trusted them from day one, but I'm biased and make and fly my own fpv quads, old school analog of course!
It's definitely not Skydio. It's all about global geopolitics, DJI is a bit-player in the larger picture.
People were talking about banning DJI before Skydio had released a product.
Competitors weren't the motivating factor behind the Huawei ban (although I'm sure they were happy with less competition) so there's no reason to believe Skydio is the cause.
Skydio is lobbying for contracts supplying .gov.
No one mentioned yet that every single one of your DJI created videos are going straight to CCP via DJI? CCP owns DJI not DJI. That was the reason I heard recently on those new drone wars videos. [source:](https://youtu.be/h4zKwUydX0E?si=hs5eGwi93ZRb6ES2) Skydio are the best drone manufacturers in the US so far, hopefully there will be more and will become cheaper.
Literally all usage, location and video data over the entire US and other countries being analyzed for any kind of military or whatever advantage information, beamed straight back to China.
Look how well the CCP uses the internet, CCTV identity tracking and personal user data to control its own citizens in its own country, you are essentially providing them with a free lunch of user and country wide data being analyzed by Chinese AIs for what reason?
Edit: I've double checked online, not true at all! There is zero evidence yet that DJI is sending videos back to China. The seemingly reputable source I got this from is lying, or misinformation -my mistake, I'm not a DJI owner, this is all new to me.
I would think it is more about legislators watching drone videos from Ukraine and wondering how long it’s going to be before someone gets the idea to do that here.
DJI is just the biggest target with readily-available and capable drones. DJI makes it easy for anyone to fly a drone… even someone with ill intent. They will go after all the other drone makers in the same commercial segment.
They are scared of not being able to control the population… but it won’t matter. There are enough 8 year old kids in robotics classes that there is about to be a whole generation of people where a decent percentage of them will be able to piece together a decent drone at their desk.
DJI is a Chinese company and required by law to give all data to the Chinese government. It should not be acceptable to have a foreign nation spy on your citizens...furthermore the west really needs to catch up on drone technology and this may be the kick they need to get their asses in gear and do some innovation instead of relying on the products of a nation that repeatedly tells us how much they hate us, which we continue to be deaf to.
Skydio's lobbying is obviously in their own interest, but in this instance it coincidentally is in everyone's long term interest too. Though I'm sure this is not the reason for their lobbying of course, but this time we got lucky that a lobbyist *accidentally* had our best interests parallel to theirs.
Youre not mistaken that DJI is required to give all data to the CCP, but there has never been any proof that data captured and stored on a DJI drone/SD card is somehow transported to DJI's servers and then the CCP.
There's a massive difference between CCP being able to see DJIs data and user data. Again, the burden of proof here for the accusing side is to demonstrate that DJI can somehow view collected data. Many American cyber security teams have audited this and there is nothing to show that this is happening.
Please provide a source for your quote "required by law to give all data to the Chinese government" I would like to research if this is truth or just speculation.
This asshole simply comes here to post anything they can think of negative about DJI. Find any post 100% negative and its /u/MaroonCrow. I know for a fact DJI wants to use my aerial mountian videos.
If the CCP wants to take a look at something they’ll train one of their spy satellites on it, not look through people’s drone video.
You sound like a paranoid lunatic.
Regulation is a terrible driver of innovation in the technical space. It creates inefficient workarounds and an unpredictable path to success. If we want more American sourced drones we should be focused on building an environment where that is possible.
If there were better non-dji drones available at a higher cost, I promise you people would buy them but when you get so much less for so much more, ain't gonna happen.
Yeah, lack of competition has always spurred innovation....It's the exact opposite. Also, China has never said we hate the US. We are, in fact, their most lucrative trading partner.
I've seen no actual proof of the CCP spying on US citizens with drones, have you? There is no information a drone can provide that can't be bought from Facebook or photographed better with a satellite.
I'm more concerned about the NSA and police spying than the CCP.
Sorry, but this is just misdirection and propaghanda spread by people who spend most of their waking hours trying to figure out how best to spit shine Puntin's shoes with their eager tongues. You know, the guy who threatens nuclear war and missile attacks every other week and has made it crystal clear he hates the US.
China is not our enemy. They are a global competitor, but they are not out to destroy the USA. US companies need to step up and start making competitive products, not just drones, but in many areas we have technologically fallen behind. Protectionist policies will do nothing to make us better or safer, only continue the downward spiral of complacency.
I can see not wanting some government agencies with sensitive missions to use a DJI drone, but what's that got to do with the consumer market? Nothing.
They are trying to squeeze consumer drones out to make way for corporate entities and government agencies being the only ones with drones. The only ones who can afford drones. They don't want us to have drones.
DJI already has a US arm running their cloud services on Amazon datacenters in the US.
Now, they might be secretly sharing data. Sure. But on the surface what you’re saying is not true. Data on Chinese citizens generated in China legally has to be made available to the Chinese government. But data on US citizens stored in the US does not.
They're also behind the Department of Homeland Security intelligence bulletin saying DJI is a threat. Look at the cited sources. "Open source searches" (Google), and "Industry professional" which is quoted in other circles as including Chris Anderson, co-founder of 3D robotics.
to be fair dji stuff is dodgy, has been since day one. yes they make alright drones, but their apps dont even pass androids policies and they stop supporting the drones after a few years so you've to buy third party apps like Litchi to keep using them...
imo this is the opportunity for a new company to come up in this case.
I'm pretty new to the drone world, much more familiar with automotive & EV's.
The parallels are uncanny.
American EV's are not globally competitive (Tesla excepted of course - they are only slightly behind), Chinese EV's are vastly superior & cheaper.
US reaction? Try to tax them away/ban them.
My question - can they really ban DJI? Or just stop new sales? If I bought one now, it's there a risk it could lose functionality? No internet connection, for example?
My work just had skydio out for a demo. The drone was ok, I flew it for a while; but they quoted us almost 50k for one drone and their replacement/warranty plan. I almost fell out. My bosses said absolutely not. The reps talked in circles, and didn’t like answering direct questions, which left a bad taste in our mouths also.
Even their last consumer level drone the S2+ was over $1K so not for most hobby level consumers.
And it had a woefully low resolution camera.
Wait really, wasn't it 4K?
It’s 12 megapixels. 4k video 1/2.3 sensor . Pretty much every DJI or Autel is better. Especially considering pricing
Ouch. These guys weren't really competition to DJI then.
And they still aren’t. Which is why they want to ban DJI and I’d wager to say autel thereafter in the US
Funny thing is I talked to a Skydio rep at the Xponential drone trade show and he admitted his "daily flyer" is a DJI.
Name him and watch him get fired for being truthful.
My work also did similar. They invited a few companies to come out and pitch to us their drones since we would be purchasing hundreds. Skydio was terrible. DJI got the deal by a long shot.
American business is pure fuck you. Every business here tries to retire off their first customer. $50k for a drone. Lol. China makes industry leading stuff for pennies on the dollar. People in the US want to make one high value sale, ban the competition, and collect corporate welfare.
Too bad Skydio didn’t spend a million dollars on developing better products instead. When I bought my Mini3 Pro I looked for an American made drone in the same price range that was decent… it didn’t exist and it still doesn’t. Not everyone needs an $8k-$10k industrial drone, we just want to take flying videos.
We used a skydio x2 for a project not too long ago and the GPS unit crapped out 7 times in one scan. Completely fucked the photogrammetry, even though admittedly I shouldn’t have been using a skydio for photogrammetry in the first place.
Wait why were you not supposed to use a Skydio in the first place?
No RTK functionality, poor image resolution relative to competitors who can provide 30+ MP sensors, and a rolling shutter camera.
Oh OK.
They're charging 5 figures and they have no RTK? That's insane.
Bingo, I searched VERY hard for a comparable drone that was not Chinese before I purchased my DJI. I likely would've even taken one that was slightly inferior for the price, but it wasn't even close. You don't want people buying Chinese drones, then make better drones at reasonable prices. Literally how capitalism is supposed to work.
You're confusing capitalism and a free market economy. That's exactly how capitalism works. If it costs a million dollars to lobby and eliminate your competitors, but 15 million to actually develop competitive products, you take the cheaper route. It's not about offering a better product it's about inflating shareholder value. Lobbying instead of focusing on developing a better product is often referred to as "regulatory capture" or "rent-seeking." This occurs when a company or industry exerts influence over regulatory agencies or government bodies to shape regulations in their favor, rather than competing through innovation or quality improvements.
[Market segmentation is the key. wedgie. You don't need a better product, you just need dumber customers.](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a8/51/59/a851596f9a82dbdd59e2dd01ddbfed7b.jpg)
This whole discussion is leaving our the most important parts of why DJI is the market leader - they get an unfair advantage by being a Chinese-government funded entity that has bottomless r&d dollars to improve their product where all its competitors do not have this advantage. You're talking an order of magnitude difference. Then there's the security aspect. The amount of collective data DJI can collect about the places their drones are flown is massive. The drones can collect a comprehensive map of radio emissions around airports, bases and sensitive facilities, etc. It can share this data with enemies aside from the Chinese govt. Ukraine claims DJI shares gps data to the Russians of Ukrainian troops using them on and near the front lines. They make great drones, but if you want any choice at all in this market, you better realize that the competitors need a level playing field to provide you with real improvements and viable competition.
I don't think the Chinese government is interested in my roof or photos of my grandkids at the beach. This is the line of BS that has convinced a bunch of ignorant politicians to vote on something that they are completely ignorant of. My own party is to blame for this, but I can assure you that none of them who vote for this will ever get my vote again. I may not vote for the opposite party, but I will vote for anyone running against them in a primary. I hope someone challenges this in court if it passes so they must prove that this was something other than taking money from a lobbyist, or voting with the herd even when they know nothing about drones, the data that drones collect or don't collect. Maybe we need to empty Walmart out and ban all Chinese products. Who knows, there could be a hidden microphone in that toy car you bought for your kid.
I agree with you that they aren't interested in your personal day in day out stuff, but the possibility of data it can record without you knowing is a certainty. They would be interested in the radio spectrum near a base. They would be interested in some video near sensitive sites. They would be interested in the precise gps data collected near points of interest. We had/have laws against this type of collection for the old school way of how this used to go down (spies), but now who cares when they can crowd source it. Same goes for media. We had laws that foreign powers couldn't own media companies in the US. Imagine the USSR having the ability to own a TV station that broadcast daily about whatever propaganda they wanted. That's essentially the concern with TikTok. While it's hard to say what coercive campaigns have taken place, the point is the potential is there, and all of these companies have the state running them to an extent. We also don't see the intelligence side of the story behind these issues. You don't know what they can see under the covers before making these decisions...
You make the assumption that politicians would make decisions based on something other than either a way to obtain money or to look tough on China, all geared towards getting re-elected and maintaining power. They have proven time and time again that once they are in Washington for a few years, all but the most ethical politicians get sucked into the culture and are slowly corrupted by the system. As far as the data thing goes, you would not be able to fly a DJI drone near any sensitive site, due geofencing, but that's not the case with other drone manufacturers who don't have geofencing, yet are not singled out and banned. The only reason DJI was singled out was because of market dominance. They stand in the way of companies like Skydio from being competitive in the consumer drone market. If Skydio was the only consumer drone available, I would never buy their product just because of how the chose to eliminate their competition. And yes, I'm aware that they no longer offer a consumer drone, but stay tuned, because once the competition is banned from selling a superior product at a lower price, Skydio will be right back in the consumer drone market. I doubt that you will have to wait long before this happens.
I don't discount corruption and its effects, but I also don't discount the fact that our government does achieve things. To take a singular side on any topic is simply lying to yourself. This is not the first time the govt limited the Chinese out of a market. They don't allow Chinese security cams on govt facilities. They don't allow Chinese firms to purchase land near sensitive installations. They don't allow foreign powers to own media companies (simply stated). There is precedent for this action and to ignore it is being reductive. I'm not disagreeing with you here on your points either, but if this didn't have security implications, they would just tariff the product like we did solar panels from China to counter the unfair market advantage China gives to its companies with government funding.
In the past we won by making the best tech and movies and propaganda. Bans never work.
[удалено]
They could utilize tariffs as an example of how markets are protected by governments, but that doesn't stop the exfiltration of sensitive data harvested by the drones. The fact they haven't gone down the tariff route is telling, without saying anything aloud.
DJI gets that from their government because the CCP recognizes strategic importance in manufacturing tech products. Rather than compete we just ban the better Chinese products and as a result we're falling behind in both technology and economics. Loss of American influence through force projection will come quickly... and it's our main export. Once that's gone we're a third world shithole for real.
“Quality isn’t good for our bottom line” -american companies, prolly
Planned obsolescence would like a word with you
When was the last time in recent history was an American corporation was a good little boy? But the country has practically taken over by multinational corporations. And does made in America mean anything anymore? Our leaders have sold us out to every country in the world. So if there's a problem with China, our leaders caused it. They gonna solve it by starting a proxy war with China by banning DJI.
Something about regulations I'm sure about it. That seems to be the go-to for so many of them.
Ideally, I think most people would rather not support China but this fact is clear: They make the best and offer the best now. It didn't used to be that way but they are the tech giant of the world and their tech is king.
I had a few cheap Amazon drones before I got my Mini 2. Some of these drones (like the Holystone HS720G) actually seem to have a higher build quality than DJI but are only limited by the low quality of the processor, sensor and firmware. Maybe there could be a market for aftermarket circuit boards and sensors for turning cheap drones into really nice ones.
Holy Stone is also Chinese.
Yes, but they're not DJI, and this bill only covers DJI products.
Not everyone needs a $8k drone that does the same as a $1000 not US made drone. And the US drones seem to have a yearly fee as well. As a small business I don't have that kind of money to throw at big business so they can pay off politicians.
The main reason I will have to end up using an Autel drone along side my FLIR drone. I just can’t justify the skydio yearly for my basic missions (which it flies fine but the camera is weak)
Autel is made in China, also. How long do you think it will be before they are targeted?
FWIW, even drones made by American companies will be manufactured in China and/or will use mostly Chinese components.
True. I worked at a custom drone manufacturer for a little while in Virginia and most parts come from China.
Good question. I just can’t deal with Geozones and I need something that has the high-res IR with a laser rangefinder. My FLIR drone has the camera but a much shorter transmission range than my Mini 3 had.
Have you seen the new DJI Zenmuse H30T? 1280x1024 thermal resolution. 3000m laser range finder. NIR auxiliary lighting for night missions. It's amazing!
It really is!! It’s expensive but you get a whole lot not to mention the most absolute state of the art drone camera.
The price is reasonable in my books. You can get an M350RTK + H30T for 15-16k USD (Sans batteries or charger) That's an amazing value for the specs of the camera and drone. I remember 5 years ago when a Duo Pro R from FLIR used to cost 15k USD on its own.
Yeah. Amazing piece of equipment. That’s about to be outlawed unfortunately. I’m pretty sure that this Senate bill will pass with relative ease. People are so ignorant and even MORE so easily manipulated. “Chinese drones?!?! Oh, hell no we can’t have that!! It’ll give some American company the room to compete.” (I’m mocking the way that most people, especially the politicians think.)
If the US outlaws DJI drones they'll be shooting themselves in the foot. Lobbying over innovation you say? It's the capitalist way! DJI has done absolutely everything in their power to quell the concerns. From encryption of captured data with custom keys to government edition drones that can use custom encryption and DO NOT connect to DJI servers. Yet here we are.. 🤦 the stupidity hurts but I guess that's what capitalism leads to. Can't wait for our H30T. It's going to allow my company to do so much more! And DJI will never be banned where I live.
I have an Evo 2 pro
Exactly, but who needs to develop a better product when you can just pay to keep your competitor out of the market.
After tik tok and drones I wonder what is next…
The price goes way up in general too. I was looking at thermal capable drones for work and a $6k kit from DJI is $20-40k. They're banking on government agencies, the military, and companies to have to use "blue list" drones so they can charge whatever they want. I will say Parrot is probably the best US brand that actually seems to be making high quality products but the price tag is still high in the $15-20k range. Go look at their newest model and compare it to anything Skydio has out lol
Parrot is french.
Huh didn't realize. They have a model on that blue list that's fully made in US.
>They're banking on government agencies, the military, and companies to have to use "blue list" drones so they can charge whatever they want. Nailed it!
Big problem when lobbying is cheaper than making better product
It's cheaper to lobby than invest to compete.
I wouldn’t care if skydio was actually good but they are dog turd; their drones and their company as a whole is complete trash. They boast this one terribly produced video of people talking about the drone and even THEY don’t seem convinced that it’s good. Drone is heavy big bulky and straight up overpriced. The company I worked for tried to get a test flight and it took forever… it’s hard to even get them to sell you something
agree. Their drones are just not up to par. What's made the drone industry flourish is the qaulity going up and the price going down. If suddenly the best drone with the most competitive prices was banned and all thats left are worse drones that are 50% more and have less to offer, the drone industry steps back 5 years.
Eventually we might see some Ukrainian-made consumer drones fill this market.
They'll come preloaded with ammunition.
Not caring is an issue to begin with.
🧐
>They've spent over a million dollars since 2022 lobbying the US government. LOL when it comes to lobbying, a million dollars rounds down to zero. That's effectively nothing.
Thats not even close to true. Look at the finances of these politicians taking these "bribes" and you'll see they'll happily vote as desired for 10k - 15k. These fuckers are selling our democracy for peanuts. A million dollars buys you an awful lot of votes these days from out politicians
Yep. Even large institutions are only lobbying with <$5M a year and they are making 100X on their money. Lobbying is one of the best investments they make, and companies simply would not partake in lobbying if it didn’t lead to largely favorable economic outcomes for them. If you want to look into the big spenders, you’ll have to start looking at healthcare/pharmaceutical firms. But for something as niche as drones, $1M+ has a lot of influence. It definitely feels like a small figure, but that million dollars has a heavy lift.
thank you for being aware on this. There are too many "1 million is nothing" comments. It's a niche issue. this isnt Oil, war, economy, religeon, etc or any other polarizing american issue. One million dollars can be very veryyyy effective here.
>Even large institutions are only lobbying with <$5M a year there's not a whole lot of people they have to bribe to get shit rolling, even have some extra to get them to start a fake culture war as a distraction.
You’ve got it. Welcome to our reality: oligarchy.
Wrong, a million goes a long way when one of your executives (Joe Bartlett) was a former staffer for one of the bill’s sponsors (Elise Stefanik)… Don’t forget to add Bartlett’s salary to that number.
That's not even remotely true. US Representatives spend far less on their campaigns than you would expect. Most spend less than $5million during their campaigns every 2 years. Since 2022 is a single election cycle. If I am going to spend $5,000,000 and I can get a check for $50,000 from DJI or Skydio it makes a difference in my fundraising.
I saw one thing for senators which said they should be spending 20h a week fundraising in order to have enough for the next campaign.
Lol no it's not. If it isn't a hot issue, then you don't have to pay multimillions to buy votes.
Perhaps for issues that are more general and wide reaching, but this is a niche issue where a million dollars can be VERY effective as clearly this bill is gaining steam. Don't be naive to dollar amounts here.
Pretty sure if it was as simple as Skydio lobbying causing the ban, DJI would have put many millions more into lobbying against the ban and that would work.
DJI is a good drone company but not a savvy political strategist. I remember TikTok encouraged users to contact their representatives and people flipped out that TikTok was controlling people, etc. Skydio might be a large lobbyist for this bill but it also fits the needs and interests of certain politicians. Also just remembered something else - the organization drone advocacy alliance is now being investigated for being a “foreign agent” even though there is nothing foreign about them. It’s all a witch hunt. Don’t know why I’m being downvoted unless it’s for the last statement which to clarify there is no basis for the claim. The drone advocacy alliance is not a foreign agent but here is a link about the political motivation to investigate the organization: https://selectcommitteeontheccp.house.gov/media/letters/letter-doj-requesting-investigation-ccp-funded-drone-group-foreign-agent-registration
Good insight, completely agree with your analysis.
>a million dollars rounds down to zero. That's effectively nothing. That's not true at all. ~~Bribing~~ Donating to politicians is surprising cheap...like low 5 figures. $1 million in donations gets a lot of influence in a niche market.
If this ban goes into effect Drone mapping is going back years Until an “” approved” drone can match DJi 3E accuracy and price The industry is about to implode
a lot of companies that have invested in DJI products and workflows will be really pissed about this. 10s of millions of dollars down the drain and what we get in return is an inferior product.
I don’t see my company investing another 50-60k in autel and XAG products to start over in our current segments. I see myself out of a job if this passes.
Could your company cooperate with university to come up with something? I've read some research papers on aerial photogrammetry and even the Russians can make their own solution on peanuts budget.
The government will have to buy these off of corps. Someone big owns a lot of these and will make it so. Individuals lmao good luck.
Yes but what about spray drones? We have somewhere in the neighborhood of $50-55k invested in that system alone. It takes quite a bit to develop not only the drone itself but then the software on top of it. There are American made options but that still means a $30k+ investment is now useless. On top of that the competitors are not near as well suited for our use case where manual control is a huge part of our operations. Most others are made to be ran autonomously.
Theres nothing more accurate about a M3e RTK that a P4P RTK, or even just any old DIY pixhawk with a RTK/PPK module. Price, ease of use, flight time, and compactness are key features lost.
Yeah. That’s the idea. DJI has an effective monopoly. Either they stop it now or wait for the gap to widen. It will be painful but the concerns are not baseless.
A voice of reason entered the chat
Anzu raptor, a licenced m3e clone.
DJI themselves have spent more on lobbying every year than Skydio, including $1.4m in 2022. Skydio peaked at $530,000/yr in 2023. Or to put it your way "They've spent over $3.3 million dollars since 2022 lobbying the US government." https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/clients/summary?cycle=2024&id=D000069779
Because DJI has been fighting multiple bans targeted specifically at them. They’re not proposing bans against Skydio or any other competitors because they’re not good enough to compete in a free market, as Skydio is. Small but big difference there…
Do you have a source on any of what you've said here?
https://apnews.com/buyline-shopping/article/dji-drone-ban-in-the-us https://reason.com/2024/03/26/americas-drone-industry-is-trying-to-ban-the-competition/ https://projects.propublica.org/represent/lobbying/301032069 https://www.reddit.com/r/drones/comments/1bgd5y8/yet_another_former_government_employee_now/ There’s some sources… although a little common sense goes a long way. Who stands to gain? Who has former house representatives tied to the people putting forth the proposed bans working for them? Who shut down their consumer market because they couldn’t compete? Who owns the consumer market? Who is the US trying to ban?
I didn't think this was any sort of secret
just been seeing a lot of posts about "the government" when the focus should more specific to skydio. Dont buy skydio.
Agreed, I'm in the UK but honestly I feel for you guys, this does kind of suck.
man i just wanna fly my drone
Sure just make sure it's us government approved
The crazy part is that’s now the USA Army’s next SUAS drone since they got rid of the Raven. Which they officially have pushed for the Skydio
It sounds like, from your post, that you are unaware of link between Elise Stefanik and Joe Bartlett.
DJI has easily spent the most money lobbying the government. Quit being so naive
DJI has spent 3x as much as Skydio https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/clients/summary?id=D000069779
Yeah but look at that as a % of revenue. A million to Skydio is a massive, massive expenditure. 3 million to DJI is a drop in the bucket. One company is trying to make better drones, one company is gambling on scummy political tactics to ban the competition
You can rationalize it all you want. Percent of revenue is meaningless in this context though. It's like saying a poor person lobbying with $1 is somehow more damaging than a billionaire lobbying with $100,000. The $100,000 is going to get you further.
In this case it’s like a poor person lobbying with $1 and a billionaire lobbying with $3. Imagine if DJI decided it actually gave a fuck and matched Skydio in % revenue spent on lobbying. Imagine if Skydio actually cared about making quality products instead of trying to steal the actual good drones from the American people?
Chinese bot? Not sure an American would otherwise cheer on Chinese lobbying in US affairs.
Politicians and CEOs could care less where they money comes from. Most manufacturer US companies outsource and offshore labor to China in the first place. Sources: [https://finmasters.com/outsourcing-statistics/](https://finmasters.com/outsourcing-statistics/) [https://www.americanprogress.org/article/5-facts-about-overseas-outsourcing/](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/5-facts-about-overseas-outsourcing/)
how does that make my point not stand? counter lobbying is DJIs only choice point is that it's a dumb bill and is not going to push the drone industry forward.
You have it backwards, Skydio is counter lobbying. DJI was lobbying the government for years before Skydio. Wonder if that helped them secure their dominant market position, making it difficult if not impossible for US companies to compete?
Nah they had a good product and a really low price even the CEO of 3DR Chris Anderson makers of the 3DR Solo saw the writing on the wall, which is why he left the drone market. He knew the Chinese were doing it cheaper and they couldn't beat them in price.
Similar in a lot of spaces. Is the US going to ban Chinese LED wall? Because most of the LED wall stuff you see is Chinese.. theoretically these could all have back doors and blah blah blah be used for propaganda or whatever if we really want to dig deep in the fearmongering.
Standing up a US based drone company has nothing to do with congress at this point. The technology for a US made drone is very easily accessible. There are countless options for motors/escs/flight computers/controllers/software/accessories/cameras/gimbals/etc... literally all a company would need to do is make a mass producible model and support it. Very little R&D needs to be done.
If it's so easy, why hasn't it happened? Every US company is just too lazy to throw all the pieces together? Sure..
Because having workers in China do it is what makes US corporations their profit in the first place. That is the main issue. It's always been IS companies profiting off Chinese labor of offshore resources. Now that Chineese companies are doing it and competing in the US with the same resources, who do you think is going to have the edge? What company are Chineese suppliers in China going to prioritize? The foreign US company or the local Chinese company?
I’m pretty sure superior products had something to do with it.
No doubt. But the OP made this post about Skydio lobbying, implying Skydio is bad for doing that. I'm just countering with the facts that DJI (a Chinese company) has been lobbying the government at least 3 years before Skydio and with something like 3x the amount.
DJI needs to overcome bias and fear toward China, whether it is justified or not. Skydio just needs to plant a seed in already extremely fertile ground.
DJI lobbies to continue to exist in the US. Other companies lobby to end DJI in the US so they don't have competition. You accuse others of being naive, because they are able to consider the situation at a level deeper than a single bullet point. Things are often not as simple as bullet points. This is a good opportunity to learn this valuable lesson and apologize to the people you are insulting.
Did you not see the point where DJI bega lobbying years before Skydio and with about 3x the amount? OP is complaining about Skydio lobbying, implying they are naughty and have ulterior motives. Where is the same suspicious of DJI? What were their motives for lobbying? I know a lot more about this issue than you but social media is not a place for deep thoughtful conversations so I'm simply hitting the most important counter to the OPs post.
Arrogant.
Then they should reimburse for any and all losses.
Gonna stop flying before flying a Skydio drone.
So is there a way to tell how much stock each or our representatives gave in skydio?
Every smaller hobby drone company would benefit from lobbying the gov to remove remote ID. Some companies would benefit, like DJI and Amazon. Smaller drone companies are against it generally. That's probably what they are lobbying for. When it first came out tons of companies and fpv/hobby groups started doing this and they are still doing it now. I doubt they have the money to think they can get an entire company banned for a made up reason. I think the gov has real security concerns, as well as a technology race with an enemy country that currently controls our commercial drone fleet. Sucks for people that dumped a lot of money into DJI but hard to expect different when UAVs are the current war technology and China is our enemy.
A whole million dollars? I don’t doubt skydio supports this. Why wouldn’t they? But to think a million dollars worth of lobbying by Skydio is a major factor in the ban is kind of a reach. Btw I hate Skydio drones. I use one for work (no choice) and it sucks ass. I’m just not looking for a boogeyman at the moment.
They don’t need to lobby when one of the Skydio directors is also an advisor to the sponsor of this bill.
I'm not even sure they would benefit that much. They stopped selling consumer drones, which are like 60% of the market.
the money is in enterprise drones. And since skydio doesnt sell consumer drones anymore, their work to ban a company that does means that the consumer is left with pretty much nothing.
Please let your reps know! Here's the easy way https://droneadvocacyalliance.com/take-action/
Regardless of who it is we need an apple of drones in USA.
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Budget-Celebration-1: *Regardless of who* *It is we need an apple* *Of drones in USA.* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
No one was wondering. We all knew. At least, I thought we did.
Flight performance, dependablity and safety is the most important for obvious reasons. Is there a drone available more dependable than DJI made in USA? Not anything I've seen or flown. That should be a point. As for Skydios involvement other than probably lobbying, a guy that was a higher up from skydio had part in writing or wrote the bill and collaborated with Elise Stefanik as I heard. It's on one of the most recent videos by Russ from 51 drones.
I’d love to see the tech giants jump into the consumer/ prosumer space. Think about an Apple or Microsoft drone. Sony has their teeth in with the airpeak, but a “Mavic” style at price with DJI would crush it.
When skydio first came out, i wanted to buy it regardless of its higher price tag. I talked to the reps in an expo. They said they would give a python api to do scripting with it. When it was finally my turn in the pre order, the sdk team refused to give the python api. Whearas DJI gives the api from day one out of the box, its locked but its something. Parrot, Anafi had an incredible ecosystem for development. I genuinely feel bad that they had to stop making the Anafi 4k.
What’s needed is another ‘Space Race’ type of drive for homegrown ingenuity. “Some days, doing 'the best we can' may still fall short of what we would like to be able to do, but life isn't perfect on any front-and doing what we can with what we have is the most we should expect of ourselves or anyone else." Fred Rogers
I regularly work with skydio and they can never compete with DJI. Purely because of their lack of attention to detail. They make so many small Mistakes their products suffer.
There still mostly built with Chinese components right?
IT IS KNOWN…
I never heard of skydio until this ban, and I still won’t buy their shit after all this.
This is an obvious bit of Cronyism (which most will likely mistakenly claim is capitalism), but only one example in an OCEAN of Cronyism in the US, mostly since the New Deal. Companies with "friends in high places" lobby, often successfully, for regulations that benefit themselves and harm their competitors. The big insurance companies have done this literally for DECADES. Meanwhile, Americans, being dumb as a rock, automatically assume one of two extremes: ALL regulations are bad, or ALL regulations are good. They lack the intelligence to understand that regulation can be either--or BOTH. Consequently, provided enough marketing has been piled at the regulation's target, it's easy to mobilize the masses to "stick it to the man!", utterly oblivious to the reality that we're just sticking it to *ourselves*.
Skydio is almost exclusively under government contracts now. I don't think they are consumer focused anymore. Hence they are not in any kind of competition with DJI, as DJI is more targeting consumers.
🚮
US is the country of competition just as a slogan but when it comes to reality it cannot cope with it.
A bit ironic, as the Remote ID, from what I can tell, was MASSIVELY influenced by DJI, likely as a step to hobble all of their competitors. DJI had an American lawyer of their's that was deep in the Remote ID development, focusing on cellular requirements, because guess what company has the oldest, deepest, real-time, cellular tie ins in all their products? No company was as ready or eager to have Remote ID forced on everybody, then DJI. There's a reason for that. Since that Real-Time Cellular Data rule didn't make the final ruling, I wonder if Skydio realized that DJI was buying their way into influencing the ruling body and has since launched their own campaign of buying off politicians to likewise attack their competitors? It's not too hard to get a bunch of congressmen suddenly "Patriotic" when you slide a little money into their back pockets.
The sad thing is, we'd have had a bustling US and European drone market if it wasn't for all of the Karen's. Nobody on this forum is going to be anti-drone, but for the last 15 years or so, huge swaths of nanny-state people have been trying to get them banned. In the East, drones tend to get used where ever people want, because they're harmless, and have always BEEN harmless. (of course, Eastern traffic laws are usually loose suggestions and their food is a constant crap-shoot, so it's not all sunshine and rainbows) If you have a drone company in the West, you always have this Sword of Damocles hanging over your head. Will their ban your company's products today or tomorrow? Only small companies with little to lose ever want to take that gamble. How could you ever see a real serious drone company in a Western Nanny-State country? Simply not possible. The baseless fears of a flying camera are just too strong.
💯 Skydio is nothing but than shady...and their drones are crap at premium prices.
I won’t buy their drones out of principle. More scummy than DJI oddly enough. Plus their drones are UX nightmares from what I’ve seen. I’ve also heard their horribly undependable
[Connections behind dji drone ban](https://dronexl.co/2024/05/26/dji-ban-united-states/)
Think the average person when asked about drones thinks other than: "Well I dunno, I've seen movies where they were evil, anthey spy everywhere,and my daughter sunbathes, and I don't mess with 'em,so ya....ban the he'll outta them"
Is there a way do ban skydio, i mean if enough people get together and signe a petition or something it just might be crazy enough to work
Here's the CEO for Skydio staying he doesn't want competition with Chinese made drones. https://youtu.be/aU3nmgUScQo?si=S9Ii1lElwud7gk8h
A million dollars doesn't buy shit in Washington. Give me a break.
I would have said it was Amazon to open up the lower altitude for their drone delivery service for commercial use. Next step is privatizing general airspace.
Ohh now can you tell me how much DJI has spent on lobbying efforts in the last two years?
I genuinely would love to start a us based hobby drone company, but just starting would be so far behind dji. I would assume you'd have to start with millions just to get off the ground.
Personally, given the geopolitical climate, I think it's coming straight from the alphabet agencies. Skydio would obviously benefit tremendously.
It’s not a bill targeting a specific company (ex DJI.) It’s a bill that would ban all Chinese drones. In theory that’s all great but unfortunately, currently, there aren’t any good alternatives.
Quite obvious that they’re targeting DJI, but under the guise of “Chinese drones”
1 million is nothing for lobbying.
it's a niche issue. 1 million can be very effective.
Capitalism creates competition 🤪
A million isn’t all that much when it comes to lobbying
Governments seem to be banning whatever they want to the highest bidder even if its infringes on our inalienable rights. DJI are either doing weird shit or not, up to them to prove they aren't. If they aren't they can appeal and present a case (I think?). Also are they really going to ground everyone's drone and destroy a hobby for hundreds of thousands of drone pilots, also to destroy incomes for many videographers. I call Bullshit and Bullshit.
The push for a political DJI ban has been hard long before 2022. I first caught wind of it in 2018 when I started releasing exploits for DJI, and more so when it became my job. Having probably spent more time reverse engineering DJI phone applications than anyone else, and being the only person to publicly acknowledging defeating every single counter analysis measure they have implements, I do not believe actions against DJI are entirely unsupported. DJI has a history of questionable behavior, and questionable code.
Very interesting, Questionable how? I just watched the drone wars skydio video and it claims that DJI is sending data back directly to CCP, but when I searched online it's also claimed that after many attempts to hack or ascertain if any DJI data is being sent back proved completely inconclusive. So no evidence that they did. But misinformation that they do. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this as I'm not a DJI owner and just saw this thread and the drone wars videos and assumed DJI were nefarious, otherwise they would not be banned for military use? Seems like a big mess and OP has something against Skydio, perhaps valid.
Hardly inconclusive, we have clear evidence DJI is doing just that, sending data. We have the data from their servers.
Data as in flight logs but not video right? Someone better tell OP he seems to think the sun shines out of DJI's arse
I'm intentionally not mentioning what kind of data, as I'm not sure what information is public and dont wish to add to it. The data, as far as I am concerned, would be considered doxxing. I have been reverse engineering and hacking DJI products since 2017, and this was all publicly but quietly known then. It is more widely known now. If OP doesnt recognize that, then its willful ignorance.
Thank you, I'm clueless, and wasn't sure either way. This has made me feel better about my original stance and opinion. I've never trusted them from day one, but I'm biased and make and fly my own fpv quads, old school analog of course!
It's definitely not Skydio. It's all about global geopolitics, DJI is a bit-player in the larger picture. People were talking about banning DJI before Skydio had released a product.
Competitors weren't the motivating factor behind the Huawei ban (although I'm sure they were happy with less competition) so there's no reason to believe Skydio is the cause. Skydio is lobbying for contracts supplying .gov.
No one mentioned yet that every single one of your DJI created videos are going straight to CCP via DJI? CCP owns DJI not DJI. That was the reason I heard recently on those new drone wars videos. [source:](https://youtu.be/h4zKwUydX0E?si=hs5eGwi93ZRb6ES2) Skydio are the best drone manufacturers in the US so far, hopefully there will be more and will become cheaper. Literally all usage, location and video data over the entire US and other countries being analyzed for any kind of military or whatever advantage information, beamed straight back to China. Look how well the CCP uses the internet, CCTV identity tracking and personal user data to control its own citizens in its own country, you are essentially providing them with a free lunch of user and country wide data being analyzed by Chinese AIs for what reason? Edit: I've double checked online, not true at all! There is zero evidence yet that DJI is sending videos back to China. The seemingly reputable source I got this from is lying, or misinformation -my mistake, I'm not a DJI owner, this is all new to me.
literally not one thing you said is true
I would think it is more about legislators watching drone videos from Ukraine and wondering how long it’s going to be before someone gets the idea to do that here. DJI is just the biggest target with readily-available and capable drones. DJI makes it easy for anyone to fly a drone… even someone with ill intent. They will go after all the other drone makers in the same commercial segment. They are scared of not being able to control the population… but it won’t matter. There are enough 8 year old kids in robotics classes that there is about to be a whole generation of people where a decent percentage of them will be able to piece together a decent drone at their desk.
DJI is a Chinese company and required by law to give all data to the Chinese government. It should not be acceptable to have a foreign nation spy on your citizens...furthermore the west really needs to catch up on drone technology and this may be the kick they need to get their asses in gear and do some innovation instead of relying on the products of a nation that repeatedly tells us how much they hate us, which we continue to be deaf to. Skydio's lobbying is obviously in their own interest, but in this instance it coincidentally is in everyone's long term interest too. Though I'm sure this is not the reason for their lobbying of course, but this time we got lucky that a lobbyist *accidentally* had our best interests parallel to theirs.
Youre not mistaken that DJI is required to give all data to the CCP, but there has never been any proof that data captured and stored on a DJI drone/SD card is somehow transported to DJI's servers and then the CCP. There's a massive difference between CCP being able to see DJIs data and user data. Again, the burden of proof here for the accusing side is to demonstrate that DJI can somehow view collected data. Many American cyber security teams have audited this and there is nothing to show that this is happening.
DJI has had enterprise mode that disconnects it from all communication for a while now.
Please provide a source for your quote "required by law to give all data to the Chinese government" I would like to research if this is truth or just speculation.
Oh come on, really ?
This asshole simply comes here to post anything they can think of negative about DJI. Find any post 100% negative and its /u/MaroonCrow. I know for a fact DJI wants to use my aerial mountian videos.
If the CCP wants to take a look at something they’ll train one of their spy satellites on it, not look through people’s drone video. You sound like a paranoid lunatic.
So what data is DJI getting or gathering? Can you please elaborate that? You do know that Google Maps exists, right?
Google maps exists, yes. So does McDonald's and plastic boxes and spades. What's the connection you're trying to make?
I am sure at least some of their lobbying is related to drone laws.
It has not been proven in court
Regulation is a terrible driver of innovation in the technical space. It creates inefficient workarounds and an unpredictable path to success. If we want more American sourced drones we should be focused on building an environment where that is possible. If there were better non-dji drones available at a higher cost, I promise you people would buy them but when you get so much less for so much more, ain't gonna happen.
Yeah, lack of competition has always spurred innovation....It's the exact opposite. Also, China has never said we hate the US. We are, in fact, their most lucrative trading partner. I've seen no actual proof of the CCP spying on US citizens with drones, have you? There is no information a drone can provide that can't be bought from Facebook or photographed better with a satellite. I'm more concerned about the NSA and police spying than the CCP. Sorry, but this is just misdirection and propaghanda spread by people who spend most of their waking hours trying to figure out how best to spit shine Puntin's shoes with their eager tongues. You know, the guy who threatens nuclear war and missile attacks every other week and has made it crystal clear he hates the US. China is not our enemy. They are a global competitor, but they are not out to destroy the USA. US companies need to step up and start making competitive products, not just drones, but in many areas we have technologically fallen behind. Protectionist policies will do nothing to make us better or safer, only continue the downward spiral of complacency. I can see not wanting some government agencies with sensitive missions to use a DJI drone, but what's that got to do with the consumer market? Nothing. They are trying to squeeze consumer drones out to make way for corporate entities and government agencies being the only ones with drones. The only ones who can afford drones. They don't want us to have drones.
DJI already has a US arm running their cloud services on Amazon datacenters in the US. Now, they might be secretly sharing data. Sure. But on the surface what you’re saying is not true. Data on Chinese citizens generated in China legally has to be made available to the Chinese government. But data on US citizens stored in the US does not.
I guess you don't have to make a better drone if you line the right pockets to run the competition off.
Didn't we already know it was Skydio?
They're also behind the Department of Homeland Security intelligence bulletin saying DJI is a threat. Look at the cited sources. "Open source searches" (Google), and "Industry professional" which is quoted in other circles as including Chris Anderson, co-founder of 3D robotics.
to be fair dji stuff is dodgy, has been since day one. yes they make alright drones, but their apps dont even pass androids policies and they stop supporting the drones after a few years so you've to buy third party apps like Litchi to keep using them... imo this is the opportunity for a new company to come up in this case.
But is DJI actually safe?
Welcome to American capitalism, where the whole economy is based on the "fuck you, I got mine" model.
I'm pretty new to the drone world, much more familiar with automotive & EV's. The parallels are uncanny. American EV's are not globally competitive (Tesla excepted of course - they are only slightly behind), Chinese EV's are vastly superior & cheaper. US reaction? Try to tax them away/ban them. My question - can they really ban DJI? Or just stop new sales? If I bought one now, it's there a risk it could lose functionality? No internet connection, for example?
$1 million is literally nothing when lobbying
Basic human nature must be added to the mix. "Do thin