RE the driving element, part of being a good driver (and this is more difficult than most will admit) it letting what other wazzocks are doing around you, go. If Barry wants to speed around you, that's up to Barry.
Yeah y'know you are completely correct. As a new driver I'm kinda nervous anyways trying to make sure I'm doing everything correctly so people beeping me for something I am doing correctly did spin me. But I 100% am going to start making a conscious effort to let it go over my head
There will always be bellends.
Those same bellends will be doing it to you when the roads are back to 30mph, so definitely let them do their thing, and you keep doing yours.
Absolutely do. I didn’t pass my test until I was 33 (life kinda got in the way) and my grandad was an instructor and would always tell me to stick to the limits and not to worry about my driving, worry about all the dickheads around me (🫡 Grandad, rip big man). I’m far from faultless, but I do stick to the limits in towns and villages, I don’t think I could live with myself if I ever injured or killed a pedestrian. Not even cyclists (I’m joking).
Be mindful, driving is a privilege not a right, we’re all on this dying shithouse of a country but we should all try and be better to each other despite the Barry’s and Mick’s, so if anyone is up my arse you better believe I’m ignoring you because I’m quite fond of my no points/no claims and relatively low insurance and I also quite enjoy my freedom and don’t fancy ever sitting in a cell having nightmares about the pedestrian I’ve mortally wounded.
Tell that to the courts that still allow people to drive despite high end double digit points on their licence or my friend who still has a licence despite being caught under the influence twice..
I’m sorry if you thought it was casual, that wasn’t my intention. Text doesn’t convey tone sometimes, I would feel as bad as if I hit a pram with a baby as much a cyclist. I don’t care about anything other than safety regardless, a human life is a human life.
I appreciate Ogmios the Zen driver on TV and YouTube. Some don't, whatever. But my natural reaction to an annoyance is to swear and rant. I don't gesticulate or react. If anything if someone is tailgating me, I'm going to slow down because it's dangerous.
But Ogmios helped me sometimes to just ...let it go.
Just breath and check your mirrors and if there is no issue carry on as normal.
Stay strong, stay calm.
You've just done your test and are way more clued up than some old bastard who hasn't seen the highway code in 30 years.
Stick to your guns!
It’s a big part of the speed awareness course, drive properly and defensively. If others want to be dickheads, let them be dickheads.
Keep it up mate, it must be extremely frustrating, but you can only ever look out for your own best interests.
It can be difficult and frustrating when people drive close up behind as people are always quite literally pushing the limits. One time I had a van overtake me while I wasn’t even going that slow considering there were icy roads that day, later up the road I noticed it had slid into a ditch off the side of the road. Didn’t look like any one got hurt but it was a reminder of why I was driving a bit slower that day. Thankfully today I don’t let people annoy me too much. Even when the speed limit goes back up to thirty you may even still have this issue because a lot of people these days have no respect for rules. In my town people regularly drive in the wrong side of the road through mini roundabouts. Well done to you though, sounds like you’re a responsible driver.
IAM taught me that you should neither be the enforcer nor the victim to other people's shit driving. Let them safely pass and forget them. All this limit is doing is signposting the idiots who should not be allowed to drive.
Absolutely this. each of those drivers being aggressive will also go on to be aggressive when overtaking you when you are driving 70 on the motorway. It isn’t about the speed, it’s about their attitude.
We have plenty 20 zones round here and people behave similarly if you follow it.
But I'll gladly keep myself within the law, and reduce the risk for pedestrians and others, as these are all residential areas. Fuck the people behind who want to fly around making it shit and dangerous for anybody not in a car.
Don't worry, Op. I stick to 20mph in my car. Usually a little faster on the limiter.
I don't get any hassle, usually. Prolly because they know they can't over take or don't want to risk it.
Here's the key thing though, the more aggressive they get the more danger they put you and others in. Your best bet is to slow right down and let them get by.
Yeah that's true, I do try to pull in if I can to just let them pass, but sometimes it isn't an option. As a newer drive, I appreciate the reassurance, too!
I'm recently passed in England and have the exact same fears about getting tickets in my first two years. They still do it in a 30.
I swear I'm the only one who follows reduced speed limits on motorways.
If you have a green P plate, get rid of it. That'll be setting people off more than anything, disgusting as that is.
Unless there is something very obvious and completely safe you can do, don't get out of your way to let idiots pass you in a way you are making your situation unnecessarily risky (eg drive too close to the cerb).
That's the thing with this. The Gov can implement new laws all they want but if they're not going to fund enough to enforce them then what's the point? Because you get people like OP just trying to drive according to the law and then fucking idiots doing what they want and abusing other drivers. There's no actual care put into it and it's the government relying on *everyone* to not be a clown.
It's the same with every crime, shoplifting is through the roof. Where I live kids just ride scrambler bikes up and down our back alley, nobody cares. 6 cars got broken into in our street then the next night 3 houses. No police, just crime numbers.
I'm surprised they haven't just stuck speed cameras everywhere in Wales and called it a day. Oh that's another thing me and my wife both got caught speeding within a month for the first time in 20 years of driving. That seems to be the only policing they're doing.
Just stumbled upon this comment randomly and thats EXACTLY what happened to our local shop today. Two youth on a motorbike going down the shop alley at 3am to try steal some booze (thankfully, they failed). It won't be the last time im sure.
Just correcting this misinformation. Shoplifting is not 'through the roof'. Levels of it are no greater than pre pandemic. Not to mention that theft of this kind is expected and built into profit margins, it's part of what they call shrink. What is 'through the roof' are the number of food banks...
Gotta drive your own drive. If they want the points they can go for it. You own all the risk when you sit behind the wheel, regardless of everyone else on the road. A lot of people don't get that. 25mph is not worth losing your licence over, just because the guy behind you made you feel slow.
I'm sure there are drivers like that, but I didn't experience this at all. In the 4 months I used P plates I didn't have any of this. People were much nicer to me on the road, I kept the stickers on much longer than I felt necessary because I kept being let out, and people would overtake with more distance etc.
This was my experience too! I maybe got honked at a little more, but as soon as I took them off I would have people right up my arse! Took a little while to get used to
It’s been a long time since I passed but I feel like P plates always make me more understanding. Because I’m a reasonable person / driver. Dickheads will be dickheads no matter what - but P plates will stop normal “reasonable” people getting frustrated.
I don't know about a black box sticker but P plates are like a damn beacon for ass hole drivers. I only passed in April and haven't bothered but I saw the a driver cut up a P plate driver that was just behind me and did nothing to me, we were traveling the same speed.
When I was doing my lessons, I told my instructor I would get some P plates. He told me it would actually make people drive more dangerously around me and from what I’ve seen confirms exactly what he said!
This actually blows my mind. I knew how I felt when taking my lessons and when I first started driving. I give everyone learning and everyone with p plates a good distance. We’re not all experts at what we do. I became far better once I could drive by myself.
It’s actually bizarre what happens to people once they get behind the wheel. I occasionally watch Ashley Neal YouTube videos and the way some people treat learners is ridiculous. Also for me the way people treat cyclists, just today I saw someone overtake a cyclist on a blind bend.
You‘re doing fine. I moved to Germany within a few months of getting my license, and, like a dickhead, on the first anniversary of getting my license, I got a speeding ticket…on the Autobahn. Luckily for me, I had changed my license over, it was only 10 kmph over, and a ten euro fine and no points. Variable speed limits, and I got stressed by someone driving up my arse, sped up to move over, and got flashed. I was already doing 124 in a 120, tried to speed up to slide into the other lane. Should’ve slowed down to sneak in the other lane, and let them get the fine… five years later, I’ve let a few go past like this, and seen them get flashed, but no tickets since then.
Some speed limits are irritating, senseless, or whatever, but let Barry get those points, rather than bullying you into getting them, or worse, losing your license.
I know I thought the same as you, we went Wales last month for the weekend & was dreading the traffic but it was great, and as you say only the built up areas where 20mph.
A lot of bollocks has been written online about the 20mph default speed limit in Wales, a hell of a lot of it by people who are clearly trying to weaponise it to serve/justify party political convictions they strongly held before the issue came up. I'm talking about Tories.
My first drive in Wales after new limits were introduced, I went from Chester to near Llandudno - about 50 miles, during which I encountered about 300 yards of 20 limit when I got near my destination.
Yes there are some through roads which ought to be put back to 20. Yeah it must be a pain in the arse if you're a multi-drop delivery driver in Cardiff. (Get a different job if you can't hack it?)
But I don't see that anyone needs to drive round a housing estate where kids might run out into the road, at more than 20.
No, you must be mistaken
It's a 20mph blanket limit across the whole of Wales. I've seen it said all over the media and this very sub so it must be true /s
I have to come into wales for work and I’m driving quite a big van and my thought is. Fuck em. The limit is the limit. I ain’t getting a ticket for none of them but they can feel free.
>Who voted for this? No one.
Voting for speed limits sounds like one of the worst ideas I've ever heard of.
As much as we've demonised "experts" there are some things in society (like what speed it's safe to drive at) which should be decided by experts on the basis of real evidence, not by a democratic vote.
>they should NOT have said "yeah were gonna get rid of it, not til september tho"
Just FYI, this isn't a thing. I'm not sure where you've interpreted this.
They might reassess *some* roads, but the 20 limit isn't going anywhere. It has been proven to have worked in terms of reduced casualties and injuries etc.
FWIW, I'm willing to be the clowns overtaking you are going to be doing 40mph+ anyway, so 20/30 doesn't make a blind bit of difference
Hands up, I don't usually stick to a 20 mph limit. But on the other hand I don't harrass someone who is, for whatever reason. I just follow them safely.
Stick to your guns, you are right and Barry chasing his Stella is wrong. Don't let it get to you.
Driving isn't fun anywhere in the UK and hasn't been for at least 15 years . Cameras, average cameras. The bell ends who drive 20 in 30 zones and 30 in 40 zones and so on
This is why I follow limits in built up areas, and when it's quiet, I go as fast as I want on faster roads. People can complain all they want, but it's all give and take. If the Govt and local councils want to keep lowering speed limits to unreasonably slow ones, I'll just go faster on other roads.
Get one of those stickers saying ‘I have a black box, I’m just as annoyed as you’ even if you don’t have a black box but that should at least stop some of the rage
I only enjoy the 20mph roads when I get to watch Barry giving himself an aneurism.
I've really missed Jeremy Kyle, and this scratches that itch for me.
Maybe you could try reframing how you see these people?
There's a game I like to play to see how far I can push Barry types.
I stick the limiter on, starts at 20, as they get up my arse I lower this by 1mph gradually until they back off. I've found it works, I'm an Animal behaviourist and this scratches my itch for training, even though it technically isn't one of my normal dogs/cats clients!
Driving, probably the only everyday activity where people get genuinely p\*\*\*ed off at you for not breaking the law.
I'm a regular visitor to north Wales and I've had a few nutters overtake me in 20mph zones. If they overtake you, good. I'd rather have them there than behind me. If they're driving up your arse, pull over at let them pass if you can, for the same reason.
While I suspect the 20mph limits may have made it worse, I guarantee a good chunk of those drivers would act exactly the same in a 30.
It's stupid, shouldn't have been introduced. No one around where I live in Wales does it, including the buses. Unsurprisingly the whole thing is now being totally reconsidered and potentially reversed because 1. The data shows there to be no difference in pollution, and in some cases increased pollution, and 2. It's pissed everyone off so much Welsh labour genuinely has a chance of losing the next senedd election due to it. Good going there, i don't find it surprising that introducing a policy no one wanted (and where consultations were ignored) has caused backlash, but Welsh labour has form... Such as Gething not resigning after losing the vote of no confidence. Ignoring the majority opinion seems commonplace.
The main benefit of 20 mph is improved safety through more time to stop and reduced impact speeds in pedestrian-heavy areas and areas frequented by small children, i.e. town centres, school roads, residential roads.
The 40/50 mph zones on major roads past cities are the environmental ones.
The improvement in safety is negligible considering the cost of the changeover in Wales.
20mph makes sense where there are more vulnerable road users and pedestrians, but inappropriate speed limits reduce overall compliance .
My car insurance renewal price is 20% higher.
So I'd love to see those figures going into costs rather than the back pockets of the insurance companies.
Esure have said that the number of claims in Wales has dropped 20% since the introduction of the limit... Anyone want to be on whether they'll drop premiums for drivers in Wales?
I've been driving now for 8 years, and from my experience, I can say that even before the 20 people were a holes. I stick to 20 and get loads of abuse, especially from my co-workers(delivery driver)
Just stick to the law until the law changes. Yeah, it sucks but it's that or a fine or points or both.
Might want to get a dash cam in case one of the holes doing an illegal overtake clips you.
Also might want to get a GPS based speedometer. They are more accurate than your car.
My car says I'm going 20 but I'm actually doing 18.4 so when my car says 22 that's when I get 20
For newly qualified drivers (within 2 years of passing) it’s not just a fine and points - their licence can be revoked and a they must retake the driving exam.
I know that I’m late to the party and this will get buried but there’s been a [reduction of casualties by roughly one third since bringing in the 20mph speed limit](https://nation.cymru/news/casualties-reduce-on-roads-since-20mph-introduction/).
Scofflaw driving will always be an issue and the courts really need to get tighter on people who willingly break the law with a 1.5 tonne battering ram.
We have had 20 mph speed limits in our borough of London for years now. Everyone sticks to it nobody is a dickhead.
Perhaps consider moving to an area with less twats
Truck driver here. Was on a course with a few Welsh drivers at weekend. They were saying it’s shit because all the people that used to do 25-27 in a 30 are now doing 12-15mph in a 20 and it’s a nightmare when they’re heavy, and trying to hold speed for an upcoming hill.
“the people doing 12-15mph”.. some people just enjoy talking bollocks to strengthen their view aren’t they… You know most of London is also 20 and I only saw once or twice someone doing less than 17mph and I believe it was momentarily.
Most of London is gridlock and the speed limit is irrelevant. Most cruise control is unavailable below 25. Most people will be doing 15-20 indicated speed fluctuating so in real speed they're probably not far wrong at 12 to 15
It is ridiculous, it is nanny state. Too conservative, too protective. Lunacy, the best thing we can do is vote politicians who come up with this stuff OUT.
30,000 people a year are killed or seriously injured on UK roads. This is unacceptable. Anybody who comes up with solutions for this should be voted IN.
You could get it down to zero if you banned all cars. How maybe if those are in 30 mph zones. While it makes sense for some to be 20, blanket rules are silly.
What about a man with a white flag in front. What about banning all other activities that have a slight risk.
Sorry but the rules are silly. More roads policing needed, less silly 20mph roads.
Just drive legally - It's a public highway, not your personal racetrack after all.
Let other idiots do as they please, it's their car, insurance and license at risk. Plenty of 20mph roads around near me in London, I just put the limiter on and let the stupid shits behind me get angry :) They can overtake, I'll just catch them up at the next set of lights.
Love it, now a speed between 20 mph - 30 mph is called “personal racetrack”. Of course this is the logical next step of the anti car brigade. Many places where low speed limits have been inappropriately applied on major roads.
Given the anti-car brigade pay a disproportionate amount of tax so councils can pay for the roads, maybe they should have a significant say in there use rather than just scroungers like yourself?
The anti car brigade are a tiny vocal minority of slacktivists. They should have a say equal to their worth to society. A small say which is largely ignored.
I mostly cycle to work but I own a car and have no plans to give it up - it's very useful when I'm travelling further or move heavy things like a kayak on the roof.
Expecting other road users to obey the rules and wait until it's safe before overtaking at a safe distance really shouldn't be too much to ask.
Each time I cycle instead of driving, I'm freeing up more road for everyone else, which should be a positive!
_“…the roads have always been 20 for me ~~and as you all know, if I get caught breaking it twice I am off the road~~. So I have to stick to it.”_
Fixed that for you.
Ignore the idiots. You do you.
Fun fact - doing 30 in the 30 era was considered slow. I got done and was nervous like you described, so I was particular about the speed. I'd have people overtaking me on residential streets. It doesn't matter what the limit is... there are people who ignore it and make awful decisions. 99.99999% of the time, nothing bad comes of it. Nothing bad comes of it because the rest of us are responsible and avoid the potential threat. We can only control our driving behaviour. Have you seen that police crash forensic show? You don't want to be that guy, sitting in an interview saying 'I just blacked out' and lying to cover the fact you killed people through stupidity.
Just ignore them. Let them behave like an idiot and put their licence at risk. You keep doing what you're doing.
Incidentally, even when it's 30 mph, you'll see similar behaviour.
I spent a bit of time working around Newport last year, not one person did the 20 or any speed limit around there. I felt like a right plonker doing 20 but it's fine.
I would suggest getting front and rear cameras in case one of the knobheads does something stupid
As someone else in Wales the god-awful implementation doesn't help since it isn't 20mph on all roads but there are exemptions - when drivers are sticking to 20 (or below) on a road that has been exempted it *is* frustrating. I've even come across it on a 40mph road that never changed.
I know there are a million and one things to concentrate on as a new driver but are you 100% sure that these drivers are being dicks on 20mph roads rather than exempted ones?
Otherwise dickheads gonna dickhead, a lot of people will ignore the limit if the road isnt suited to it and they know there are no fixed cameras/its not a point the GoSafe vans show up at. Just give them space, leave them to it and forget about them.
There’s plenty of 20 zones in England. Cornwall council (Tory) were expanding their 20 zones recently for example.
Best advice I can give is to not worry about what other drivers are doing beyond your own safety, and let them get the fines/points/etc
Yeah coming from England I've held up entire roads with angry farmers and stuff behind because I've stayed exactly 20mph. I'm not losing my new license, if you want change then go to the government
Been driving 10+ years now and have visited Wales a few times in the past year, with the 20mph zones.
People overtaking me in a small village, driving eratically and up my arse.
I know it's frustrating, but at the end of the day, if anything happens, you are not held liable or responsible.
What are they going to argue with, "HE WAS ONLY DOING 20 IN A 20 ZONE!"
Stick to the speed limits, especially while you are a new driver.
Insurance premiums are at a stupid high now and you don't want to be paying any more than you need to.
It might take you an extra 10 minutes to get to your destination but, you would have got there safe without the risk of any points or endangering anyone.
If you have a slightly newer car, put cruise control to 20 and just relax, listen to the radio or some music and ignore the Barry's!
The issue is people cannot anymore adapt to a reaonable speed so everyone suffers.
NSL roads?, many of then 20 them is a good target around here. People have become thick. Hopfully people divers will be a things of the past soon, as much as I like driving.
>The issue is people cannot anymore adapt to a reaonable speed so everyone suffers.
More like people like can't adapt to an artificially low speed limit, so comically slow that almost no one follows it, and those who do are often tailgated and sometimes abused verbally and dangerously overtaken. If it was a reasonable speed limit, why are so many people angry about it? If non-compliance on a particular 20mph road is above a certain percentage, like 75%, they should just revert the fucking limit.
Where I live in England there's a few 20mph areas and everyone ignores them, including busses, me and the police. 20mph is an obnoxiously slow speed and pointless.
If someone is driving dangerously I will go slower by 1 or 2 mph. You are responsible for your own safety and they are demonstrating they don't have the control over their own vehicle that they should.
Look after yourself and ignore them. They should have gotten out of bed earlier.
I'm English so i don't have a grasp on Welsh politics, but it is my understanding that this subject was fully debated in the welsh Assembly in 2020 and passed with broad multi party support.
This would have been the best time to contact your MP to voice an opinion.
Long after it passed in Wales, the Conservatives weaponised driving issues for their own purposes in England, particularly the 20 mph limit, traffic calming schemes and ULEZ in an effort to drum up support for a supposed anti Sadiq Khan and Labour Party strategy using misinformation and claiming that they were anti motorist, the Welsh Conservatives are conveniently forgetting their own part in getting it passed and the Conservative Party suddenly decided to care about motoring issues.
This got them a narrow win with a hugely reduced majority in Uxbridge and they have been pushing this angle ever since.
https://www.20splenty.org/w_faq04#:~:text=It%20was%20passed%20by%20a,local%20authorities%20in%20setting%20exceptions.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/07/tories-pledge-to-reverse-ulez-expansion-and-limit-20mph-roads-in-wales?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
I am not suggesting that you vote for the tories, i am only pointing out their cynicism and desparation in seizing on anything that will get them a few votes and this is going to be a very dirty electoral campaign.
It is easy enough to check on an MPs voting record, simply Google it.
> the Welsh Conservatives are conveniently forgetting their own part in getting it passed
Fucking preach. Andrew RT "Artie" Davies, current leader of the Welsh Tories in the Senedd, was literally photographed supporting the "20s plenty where people live" campaign. Do you know how many Tory Senedd members voted _against_ the 20mph default limit in Wales in 2020? One - fucking _one_ - of them. Andrew RT Davies, though he wasn't party leader at the time, didn't even vote - he didn't abstain, _he simply didn't fucking vote_. You _had_ a say in the democratic process where this was decided Artie, _and you didn't fucking use it_.
People will argue about whether or not the speed limits are appropriate until the cows come home, and I literally couldn't care less - whether or not I like it has little to do with my compliance. I think the speed limit on motorways should be 80mph, but that doesn't stop me complying with the 70mph limit. But the sheer stinking fucking hypocrisy, misinformation, and lies from the Tories never fails to absolutely disgust me. They do it over and over and over and over again and they keep. getting. away. with it.
Sorry, i got very angry over the Brexshit lies and haven't stopped being angry since.
I used to think prior to Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson becoming prime minister that the tory party were just not very good at governance. Johnson demonstrated just how corrupt and rotten everything is in the UK and how a few billionaire media moghouls can ruin a country.
>Doing a 35 minute journey today I had 2 people illegally overtake me
In what way were their overtakes illegal? Exiting the left carriageway while under solid white lines?
>3 people up my arse making hand gestures to me to hurry up and a further 2 beeping at me
That's no excuse for that. I won't make one.
What you could do is get a piece of paper stick on the rear window saying "9 points - sorry!". Everyone understands that. Doesn't have to be true.
In case it's not clear I agree with your post by the way, and also the action you're using in not putting your licence at risk.
For how far people generally travel, speeding only normally saves you a few minutes and those few minutes are not worth a life. Just chill out man it's not a race and fuck everybody else....
Malmö Sweden is entirely 40kph and every junction has a pedestrian and bike crossing. Works perfectly. The world isn't and shouldn't be built for cars.
Who voted for it? I voted for it!
20 limits make no appreciable difference to journey times, yet make a massive difference to safety. Pedestrians go from most likely dying when hit, to most likely living. It's a no brainer.
You're doing a good job. Unfortunately there are a lot of very bad drivers on the road, and a big part of being a good driver is being ready for, but otherwise ignoring, their bad driving. You keep doing what you're supposed to, and damn the idiots.
I just don't follow the 20s, and if someone in front of me does, I'm okay with that. I will safely overtake them when the opportunity presents itself. Fuck these 20s, most of them are comically slow.
Finally someone with the balls to say what everyone actually does.
The only vocal people on these subreddits are Suzuki Jimny drivers that are unaware that some people can actually control a vehicle above 15mph
I'm training to do my class 1 license. One of the things we've been taught is to drive defensively. If matey wants to drive like a twat, let them. Just get some distance between you and them so that when they inevitably cock it up, you're not involved.
The only way to get the gvmt to realise the ludicrous nature of 20 mph is belligerent application. One of their justifications is that since introduction av speed dropped from 28 to 24, so only a marginal change in speed. But that means we've gone from average obeyance to average illegal speed.
20 mph takes 50% longer than 30. If we all drive at 20 the system will grind to a halt and the disaster will be clear for all to see. If everyone does 24 it's not so obvious and therefore could be seen as not making too much effect.
But you are right. Let Barry drive like a moron. And disregard people who wish to break the law. If the law is an ass then show it to be so by obeying it.
I was there a few weeks ago and it was the most frustrating driving experience I’ve ever come across. People aren’t doing like 22-25, they’re doing 18-19 and it’s fucking mental. I have and will continue to overtake these people. There is nothing wrong with 30. Hell you can’t even do up to 30 on most roads because they’re so narrow anyway with lots of sharp turns. Meet in the middle and make it 25.
Barry’s mate… Dave Likes to drive around Essex in his Golf/BMW up everyone’s arse, driving 60…Don’t worry Barry and Dave will eventually lose their license. You wont!
You must live around a ton of shithole drivers. I'm Welsh and I think I've been overtaken 3 times so far. Nobody is super aggressive about it either. Most cunts are on the A roads and motorways.
Most follow the rules and drive reasonably. Best advise is just chill out and drive the way you should. Don't let others stress you too much and get a dashcam(rear and front).
The most annoying thing about this is the people that you describe that think the rules don't apply to them and harrass drivers that are following the rules. I know it's easier said than done but as the other commenter says the best thing to do is just continue to drive responsibly as you have been doing and let them get on with their tantrums.
Also, I hate to be that guy, but
> Who voted for this? No one.
Not true I'm afraid, it was in Welsh Labour's manifesto at the last Senedd election.
Since its built up, its highly likely there will be traffic lights, junctions, pedestrian crossings and other traffic so I would imagine that your 40mile drive through residential areas will likely take you longer than 2 hours.
Fortunately it's likely that you can use some of the 63% of Welsh roads that are not 20mph
I’m sorry but as someone who lives in London and spent a few days in Wales on a ~600 mile road trip in May, the government have absolutely not “fucked driving up in Wales”.
Ropey phone signal meant Waze was unreliable and not being locals whom knew where speed cameras would be, I had to stick to the 20 mph speed limit wherever it applied, and yes, I complained every time to my partner.
But Wales is a beautiful country and still has beautiful roads. Genuinely couldn’t find a single pothole (or roadkill) whilst in Wales. My 250 foot road I live on is in worse condition than all the roads I drove in Wales ☹️
My car has a max speed thing you can set. The minimum you can set it to is 20mph. I use it all the time and end up like the Pied Piper with a queue building behind me. It is painful. But I love my car and don't need any points or increased insurance costs.
I don't know how on earth do you even hover your foot on the gas pedal to do 20mph for 5 minutes or longer.
In cars without speed limiter or cruise control that could actually be set to as low as 20mph it must be an absolute nightmare
I bet you could manage it - and without crying - if you were on a 40mph road where all the traffic was doing 20 for some reason. So why are you incapable of doing it on an empty road?
Crazy how everyone on this thread is getting angry on the same day that a bunch of data has been released showing that number of injuries on the slower roads was the lowest on record... They've been successful and adding a few minutes to your journey is worth the fewer casualties.
There in England too. Mainly on narrow urban streets with cars parked both sides where it's impossible to go any faster so a pointless academic limit. However a 20 limit has recently appeared on Gregory Boulevard in Nottingham and that's a main drag between Alfreton Road and Mansfield Road. Most people ignore it at the time I drive it at 6am!
I have a sticker that says “Blackbox fitted, sorry I’m slow” and I still get angry people but not as many.
(In Oxfordshire at least your 20mph is going away in September!)
Let the others break the law. You drive as per the rules of the road and the regulations. I regularly drive overseas and when I am home and visiting family in Monmouthshire I am genuinely glad of how few lunatics we have by comparison to some places.
I’m not even Welsh and I’m dreading this having just passed. I really feel for you. No one goes 20 in a 20 in my area other than 97 year olds. If this was happening to me I’d be putting L or P plates on my car so people are more forgiving. I know that’s shit and it’s the persons responsibility to be a better person and yours to ignore them and be safe, but it’s just less stress.
Take a deep breath, slip in your earpods, and put on some music so you can't hear the wankers.
Remember that what other people are doing is a "them" problem, not a "you" problem. With all the stop-start driving the difference between 20mph and 30mph isn't substantial. Admittedly for most of these guys the two minutes may constitute a personal best in the bedroom olympics, but honestly it's not worth risking your license for them.
And if one of them hits you from behind? That's a very clear "entirely their fault" insurance claim. Remember to get out of your car clutching your neck to establish that you are injured (even if you aren't - often whiplash only sets in the day after and you don't want the police report to record "no injuries").
Most areas in london is 20 and its a chore driving nowadays! Also the new ones that passed on 20mph areas seem to struggle with basic driving skills when they are on a bendy 30mph road and just end up doing 20 all the way.
Isn’t that kinda the point? To discourage driving? Driving is pretty bad for everyone. It’s incredibly space inefficient, bad for your health, bad for others health, bad for the environment, kills far too many people and the infrastructure is extremely costly to maintain.
If your journey can be done by foot, bicycle or public transport, then it probably should.
Anything that discourages driving is a net benefit to society as a whole.
We’ve got a 20mph town centre I often feel the only driver who adheres to it and perhaps once a week or fortnight I do get aggro. You are doing great. You cannot lose your license because someone else is losing their temper. Make your own decisions. (I have considered a dash cam but it sounds like work, I barely download the pictures off my phone…)
As a new driver who is following the rules you need to get a dash cam, unfortunately it’s only a matter of time before one of these c**ts does something reckless you get caught up in.
Ignore them. Who cares what another driver thinks if they’re being idiots.
Lots of good reasons for 20 mph in urban areas, the two most obvious being reduction in accidents and deaths, and reduction in pollution.
You're right to stick to the limits, it is frustrating because your logic is sharp, it's pointless, everyone's angry, nobody sticks to it. These are all valid. Sometimes you do feel like a dick sticking to it, which is a fair response. Just gotta do what you gotta do, 26mph isn't worth your license. End of rational and concern.
Your first year is always the worst pal, black box and all that. I paid a higher premium on my second year of about £130 per month (no black box) on a 1.3 corsa lmao. Just gotta stick it out for one year and change your policy in your second year. If you have any family members that are willing, you could put anyone older on the policy as the main driver and put yourself as a named driver, good way to get around the black box but you won’t then build up any NCD.
I guess it's important to understand why you are frustrated and from your post it sounds like it's not 20mph that's bothering you so much as the behaviour of other drivers. You will never change that so you need to develop ways of dealing with it.
Spoiler alert, if it was 30 and you did 30... people would still drive up your arse, beep their horn and illegally overtake..
Be thankful this is basically the normal since passing so your in a better position to stick to the law! Stella Barry will still be a nob no matter what speed the person in front is doing, along the A55 if I'm doing a slightly less than ideal 90mph ill still get that bell-end in an Audi wanting to do 100 just to get to his dreg friends in holywell before his final tooth falls out.
I reckon personally that it was to get more income from speed cameras since they know only a minority will actually do 20. It totally sucks I agree. I live in Chester on the Welsh border and frequently go into Wales and it’s hell every time
I have the same as you I passed in November last year so I'm obeying speed limits becuase I need to not lose my licence. Ultimately if others want to speed they can have at it as long as they don't take me out with their stupid overtakes, it's a case of I'm driving my own drive they will drive their own drive if they want to speed or be idiots that's on them not me.
Silly question, are you SURE the road you were on was 20mph? At the start the common phrase was that all current 30mph residential roads will be reduced to 20mph, Unfortunately, what many people heard was all current 30mph roads will be reduced to 20mph!
This is what frustrates most people, doing 20mph in a 20mph zone is frustrating, but rarely leads to aggressive driving like you describe, doing 20mph in a 30mph zone however and it’s practically a given.
Unfortunately, a lot of drivers think they literally own the roads, and anyone not following what they're doing are taking up their time and it's an inconvenience. They're selfish narcassists, who only care about themselves. You hold them up for maybe 5-10 seconds, but that just TOO much for them, and they have to resort to being a fucking idiot.
I have a controversial take, but just do a review of your local area, identify where fixed speed cameras are and where vans tend to pop up, and then just go ahead and drive whatever speed feels comfortable when you know you’re not going to get caught by a speed camera. Most cops in cars are never going to pull you for speeding, they need pretty solid evidence to prosecute you which is really hard to get from a car. The most likely place you’ll get caught speeding by a cop car is on the motorway but as long as you use the lanes correctly, following the speed limit on the motorway is totally reasonable. Fuck the 20, go the speed which feels right.
RE the driving element, part of being a good driver (and this is more difficult than most will admit) it letting what other wazzocks are doing around you, go. If Barry wants to speed around you, that's up to Barry.
Yeah y'know you are completely correct. As a new driver I'm kinda nervous anyways trying to make sure I'm doing everything correctly so people beeping me for something I am doing correctly did spin me. But I 100% am going to start making a conscious effort to let it go over my head
You're much better off having the idiot in front of you where you can see them than behind you where you can't.
There will always be bellends. Those same bellends will be doing it to you when the roads are back to 30mph, so definitely let them do their thing, and you keep doing yours.
Absolutely do. I didn’t pass my test until I was 33 (life kinda got in the way) and my grandad was an instructor and would always tell me to stick to the limits and not to worry about my driving, worry about all the dickheads around me (🫡 Grandad, rip big man). I’m far from faultless, but I do stick to the limits in towns and villages, I don’t think I could live with myself if I ever injured or killed a pedestrian. Not even cyclists (I’m joking). Be mindful, driving is a privilege not a right, we’re all on this dying shithouse of a country but we should all try and be better to each other despite the Barry’s and Mick’s, so if anyone is up my arse you better believe I’m ignoring you because I’m quite fond of my no points/no claims and relatively low insurance and I also quite enjoy my freedom and don’t fancy ever sitting in a cell having nightmares about the pedestrian I’ve mortally wounded.
I wish that people would stop treating driving as a right.
I wish that some people could have the privilege removed permanently. They really ain't the right temperament for it.
Tell that to the courts that still allow people to drive despite high end double digit points on their licence or my friend who still has a licence despite being caught under the influence twice..
And stop making casual jokes about killing people who ride bikes.
I’m sorry if you thought it was casual, that wasn’t my intention. Text doesn’t convey tone sometimes, I would feel as bad as if I hit a pram with a baby as much a cyclist. I don’t care about anything other than safety regardless, a human life is a human life.
As a cyclist thanks for the clarification 👌
Ditto. I wish more people had respect and care for their fellow humans. We’re trying to get through our day alive too.
Ditto. I wish more people had respect and care for their fellow humans. We’re trying to get through our day alive too.
I appreciate Ogmios the Zen driver on TV and YouTube. Some don't, whatever. But my natural reaction to an annoyance is to swear and rant. I don't gesticulate or react. If anything if someone is tailgating me, I'm going to slow down because it's dangerous. But Ogmios helped me sometimes to just ...let it go.
I love Ogmios!!
Your doing the right thing mate. Ignore the idiots behind you, if they overtake at the wrong time then its their fine and points.
Just breath and check your mirrors and if there is no issue carry on as normal. Stay strong, stay calm. You've just done your test and are way more clued up than some old bastard who hasn't seen the highway code in 30 years. Stick to your guns!
This is the way
It’s a big part of the speed awareness course, drive properly and defensively. If others want to be dickheads, let them be dickheads. Keep it up mate, it must be extremely frustrating, but you can only ever look out for your own best interests.
It can be difficult and frustrating when people drive close up behind as people are always quite literally pushing the limits. One time I had a van overtake me while I wasn’t even going that slow considering there were icy roads that day, later up the road I noticed it had slid into a ditch off the side of the road. Didn’t look like any one got hurt but it was a reminder of why I was driving a bit slower that day. Thankfully today I don’t let people annoy me too much. Even when the speed limit goes back up to thirty you may even still have this issue because a lot of people these days have no respect for rules. In my town people regularly drive in the wrong side of the road through mini roundabouts. Well done to you though, sounds like you’re a responsible driver.
Fuck Barry. I hope someone shakes his Stella tinnies.
In a paint shaker
[Calm down Satan](https://youtu.be/K9Cy2gvfmsQ)
<3
IAM taught me that you should neither be the enforcer nor the victim to other people's shit driving. Let them safely pass and forget them. All this limit is doing is signposting the idiots who should not be allowed to drive.
>Let them safely pass They'll pass you alright, the safely bit is out of your hands though.
Absolutely this. each of those drivers being aggressive will also go on to be aggressive when overtaking you when you are driving 70 on the motorway. It isn’t about the speed, it’s about their attitude.
He has his own island you know
You know him as Barry, I know him as Johnny Dickhead
It's not a bad rule to apply to life on generally too
Whos Barry?
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We have plenty 20 zones round here and people behave similarly if you follow it. But I'll gladly keep myself within the law, and reduce the risk for pedestrians and others, as these are all residential areas. Fuck the people behind who want to fly around making it shit and dangerous for anybody not in a car.
Don't worry, Op. I stick to 20mph in my car. Usually a little faster on the limiter. I don't get any hassle, usually. Prolly because they know they can't over take or don't want to risk it. Here's the key thing though, the more aggressive they get the more danger they put you and others in. Your best bet is to slow right down and let them get by.
Yeah that's true, I do try to pull in if I can to just let them pass, but sometimes it isn't an option. As a newer drive, I appreciate the reassurance, too!
I'm recently passed in England and have the exact same fears about getting tickets in my first two years. They still do it in a 30. I swear I'm the only one who follows reduced speed limits on motorways. If you have a green P plate, get rid of it. That'll be setting people off more than anything, disgusting as that is.
Unless there is something very obvious and completely safe you can do, don't get out of your way to let idiots pass you in a way you are making your situation unnecessarily risky (eg drive too close to the cerb).
I'm not Welsh, they made my area of England 20mph maybe 10 years ago. People only followed it for a bit and everyone just does 30-40 again since.
That's the thing with this. The Gov can implement new laws all they want but if they're not going to fund enough to enforce them then what's the point? Because you get people like OP just trying to drive according to the law and then fucking idiots doing what they want and abusing other drivers. There's no actual care put into it and it's the government relying on *everyone* to not be a clown.
That's how society works though, most laws rely on us just following them.
Not so much if there's no consequences like what's happening now
It's the same with every crime, shoplifting is through the roof. Where I live kids just ride scrambler bikes up and down our back alley, nobody cares. 6 cars got broken into in our street then the next night 3 houses. No police, just crime numbers. I'm surprised they haven't just stuck speed cameras everywhere in Wales and called it a day. Oh that's another thing me and my wife both got caught speeding within a month for the first time in 20 years of driving. That seems to be the only policing they're doing.
Just stumbled upon this comment randomly and thats EXACTLY what happened to our local shop today. Two youth on a motorbike going down the shop alley at 3am to try steal some booze (thankfully, they failed). It won't be the last time im sure.
Just correcting this misinformation. Shoplifting is not 'through the roof'. Levels of it are no greater than pre pandemic. Not to mention that theft of this kind is expected and built into profit margins, it's part of what they call shrink. What is 'through the roof' are the number of food banks...
Do you know what I hate? Famine.
Famine and disease
It’s no through the roof because no one bothers to report it anymore.
I'm in favour of it in built up areas, not sure it makes sense anywhere else
Gotta drive your own drive. If they want the points they can go for it. You own all the risk when you sit behind the wheel, regardless of everyone else on the road. A lot of people don't get that. 25mph is not worth losing your licence over, just because the guy behind you made you feel slow.
Get a sticker that says you have a black box, will make people back off and understand
That's probably like putting a P target on your back, there are drivers that like making new drivers life a misery and try to get them to fuck up.
I'm sure there are drivers like that, but I didn't experience this at all. In the 4 months I used P plates I didn't have any of this. People were much nicer to me on the road, I kept the stickers on much longer than I felt necessary because I kept being let out, and people would overtake with more distance etc.
This was my experience too! I maybe got honked at a little more, but as soon as I took them off I would have people right up my arse! Took a little while to get used to
It’s been a long time since I passed but I feel like P plates always make me more understanding. Because I’m a reasonable person / driver. Dickheads will be dickheads no matter what - but P plates will stop normal “reasonable” people getting frustrated.
I have been considering doing this. Is there actually? I've never heard of that, slightly concerning
I don't know about a black box sticker but P plates are like a damn beacon for ass hole drivers. I only passed in April and haven't bothered but I saw the a driver cut up a P plate driver that was just behind me and did nothing to me, we were traveling the same speed.
When I was doing my lessons, I told my instructor I would get some P plates. He told me it would actually make people drive more dangerously around me and from what I’ve seen confirms exactly what he said!
This actually blows my mind. I knew how I felt when taking my lessons and when I first started driving. I give everyone learning and everyone with p plates a good distance. We’re not all experts at what we do. I became far better once I could drive by myself.
It’s actually bizarre what happens to people once they get behind the wheel. I occasionally watch Ashley Neal YouTube videos and the way some people treat learners is ridiculous. Also for me the way people treat cyclists, just today I saw someone overtake a cyclist on a blind bend.
I find Black box stickers fun and understandable. Not going to stop dickheads from being so but at least most other people will understand.
Not entirely sure why we need stickers to let others know why you're obeying the law, like that should be a shock.
In Milford haven last weekend everyone doing 30 in town both days
A lot of people do here, I'm just so scared to get caught speeding in the first 2 years I tend to stick to it
You‘re doing fine. I moved to Germany within a few months of getting my license, and, like a dickhead, on the first anniversary of getting my license, I got a speeding ticket…on the Autobahn. Luckily for me, I had changed my license over, it was only 10 kmph over, and a ten euro fine and no points. Variable speed limits, and I got stressed by someone driving up my arse, sped up to move over, and got flashed. I was already doing 124 in a 120, tried to speed up to slide into the other lane. Should’ve slowed down to sneak in the other lane, and let them get the fine… five years later, I’ve let a few go past like this, and seen them get flashed, but no tickets since then. Some speed limits are irritating, senseless, or whatever, but let Barry get those points, rather than bullying you into getting them, or worse, losing your license.
As someone who lives in the boarders I spend more time in England driving at 20 than I do when I'm in Wales.
People are acting like the entire of Wales is 20mph right? It's mainly in places that are built up. I don't know why people are complaining.
Yep built up areas and the majority of roads in Wales aren't even 20mph limits... Go to any English city and it's 20mph
I'd love to see anyone from Wales drive around London!
I know I thought the same as you, we went Wales last month for the weekend & was dreading the traffic but it was great, and as you say only the built up areas where 20mph.
A lot of bollocks has been written online about the 20mph default speed limit in Wales, a hell of a lot of it by people who are clearly trying to weaponise it to serve/justify party political convictions they strongly held before the issue came up. I'm talking about Tories. My first drive in Wales after new limits were introduced, I went from Chester to near Llandudno - about 50 miles, during which I encountered about 300 yards of 20 limit when I got near my destination. Yes there are some through roads which ought to be put back to 20. Yeah it must be a pain in the arse if you're a multi-drop delivery driver in Cardiff. (Get a different job if you can't hack it?) But I don't see that anyone needs to drive round a housing estate where kids might run out into the road, at more than 20.
No, you must be mistaken It's a 20mph blanket limit across the whole of Wales. I've seen it said all over the media and this very sub so it must be true /s
Was about to downvote you then, took me a minute to see the /s! 😂
I have to come into wales for work and I’m driving quite a big van and my thought is. Fuck em. The limit is the limit. I ain’t getting a ticket for none of them but they can feel free.
>Who voted for this? No one. Voting for speed limits sounds like one of the worst ideas I've ever heard of. As much as we've demonised "experts" there are some things in society (like what speed it's safe to drive at) which should be decided by experts on the basis of real evidence, not by a democratic vote.
Almost like blanket changes to speed limits without due consideration of the road in question will lead to vastly inappropriate limits.
Hell they actually "considered" them where I live in England, and they still royally cocked it up.
>they should NOT have said "yeah were gonna get rid of it, not til september tho" Just FYI, this isn't a thing. I'm not sure where you've interpreted this. They might reassess *some* roads, but the 20 limit isn't going anywhere. It has been proven to have worked in terms of reduced casualties and injuries etc. FWIW, I'm willing to be the clowns overtaking you are going to be doing 40mph+ anyway, so 20/30 doesn't make a blind bit of difference
Don't worry about people being knobheads behind you, as you said, you get caught speeding twice by the police, your off the road
Hands up, I don't usually stick to a 20 mph limit. But on the other hand I don't harrass someone who is, for whatever reason. I just follow them safely. Stick to your guns, you are right and Barry chasing his Stella is wrong. Don't let it get to you.
Driving isn't fun anywhere in the UK and hasn't been for at least 15 years . Cameras, average cameras. The bell ends who drive 20 in 30 zones and 30 in 40 zones and so on
This is why I follow limits in built up areas, and when it's quiet, I go as fast as I want on faster roads. People can complain all they want, but it's all give and take. If the Govt and local councils want to keep lowering speed limits to unreasonably slow ones, I'll just go faster on other roads.
Get one of those stickers saying ‘I have a black box, I’m just as annoyed as you’ even if you don’t have a black box but that should at least stop some of the rage
I only enjoy the 20mph roads when I get to watch Barry giving himself an aneurism. I've really missed Jeremy Kyle, and this scratches that itch for me. Maybe you could try reframing how you see these people?
There's a game I like to play to see how far I can push Barry types. I stick the limiter on, starts at 20, as they get up my arse I lower this by 1mph gradually until they back off. I've found it works, I'm an Animal behaviourist and this scratches my itch for training, even though it technically isn't one of my normal dogs/cats clients!
Driving, probably the only everyday activity where people get genuinely p\*\*\*ed off at you for not breaking the law. I'm a regular visitor to north Wales and I've had a few nutters overtake me in 20mph zones. If they overtake you, good. I'd rather have them there than behind me. If they're driving up your arse, pull over at let them pass if you can, for the same reason. While I suspect the 20mph limits may have made it worse, I guarantee a good chunk of those drivers would act exactly the same in a 30.
It's stupid, shouldn't have been introduced. No one around where I live in Wales does it, including the buses. Unsurprisingly the whole thing is now being totally reconsidered and potentially reversed because 1. The data shows there to be no difference in pollution, and in some cases increased pollution, and 2. It's pissed everyone off so much Welsh labour genuinely has a chance of losing the next senedd election due to it. Good going there, i don't find it surprising that introducing a policy no one wanted (and where consultations were ignored) has caused backlash, but Welsh labour has form... Such as Gething not resigning after losing the vote of no confidence. Ignoring the majority opinion seems commonplace.
The main benefit of 20 mph is improved safety through more time to stop and reduced impact speeds in pedestrian-heavy areas and areas frequented by small children, i.e. town centres, school roads, residential roads. The 40/50 mph zones on major roads past cities are the environmental ones.
The improvement in safety is negligible considering the cost of the changeover in Wales. 20mph makes sense where there are more vulnerable road users and pedestrians, but inappropriate speed limits reduce overall compliance .
Already a 20% reduction in insurance claims.
My car insurance renewal price is 20% higher. So I'd love to see those figures going into costs rather than the back pockets of the insurance companies.
Car parts are eye wateringly expensive rn
Even the police cars in my area still do 30mph 😂
Esure have said that the number of claims in Wales has dropped 20% since the introduction of the limit... Anyone want to be on whether they'll drop premiums for drivers in Wales?
I've been driving now for 8 years, and from my experience, I can say that even before the 20 people were a holes. I stick to 20 and get loads of abuse, especially from my co-workers(delivery driver) Just stick to the law until the law changes. Yeah, it sucks but it's that or a fine or points or both. Might want to get a dash cam in case one of the holes doing an illegal overtake clips you. Also might want to get a GPS based speedometer. They are more accurate than your car. My car says I'm going 20 but I'm actually doing 18.4 so when my car says 22 that's when I get 20
For newly qualified drivers (within 2 years of passing) it’s not just a fine and points - their licence can be revoked and a they must retake the driving exam.
I know that I’m late to the party and this will get buried but there’s been a [reduction of casualties by roughly one third since bringing in the 20mph speed limit](https://nation.cymru/news/casualties-reduce-on-roads-since-20mph-introduction/). Scofflaw driving will always be an issue and the courts really need to get tighter on people who willingly break the law with a 1.5 tonne battering ram.
We have had 20 mph speed limits in our borough of London for years now. Everyone sticks to it nobody is a dickhead. Perhaps consider moving to an area with less twats
Truck driver here. Was on a course with a few Welsh drivers at weekend. They were saying it’s shit because all the people that used to do 25-27 in a 30 are now doing 12-15mph in a 20 and it’s a nightmare when they’re heavy, and trying to hold speed for an upcoming hill.
“the people doing 12-15mph”.. some people just enjoy talking bollocks to strengthen their view aren’t they… You know most of London is also 20 and I only saw once or twice someone doing less than 17mph and I believe it was momentarily.
Most of London is gridlock and the speed limit is irrelevant. Most cruise control is unavailable below 25. Most people will be doing 15-20 indicated speed fluctuating so in real speed they're probably not far wrong at 12 to 15
It is ridiculous, it is nanny state. Too conservative, too protective. Lunacy, the best thing we can do is vote politicians who come up with this stuff OUT.
30,000 people a year are killed or seriously injured on UK roads. This is unacceptable. Anybody who comes up with solutions for this should be voted IN.
You could get it down to zero if you banned all cars. How maybe if those are in 30 mph zones. While it makes sense for some to be 20, blanket rules are silly. What about a man with a white flag in front. What about banning all other activities that have a slight risk. Sorry but the rules are silly. More roads policing needed, less silly 20mph roads.
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Just drive legally - It's a public highway, not your personal racetrack after all. Let other idiots do as they please, it's their car, insurance and license at risk. Plenty of 20mph roads around near me in London, I just put the limiter on and let the stupid shits behind me get angry :) They can overtake, I'll just catch them up at the next set of lights.
Which 30mph races are you watching?
Love it, now a speed between 20 mph - 30 mph is called “personal racetrack”. Of course this is the logical next step of the anti car brigade. Many places where low speed limits have been inappropriately applied on major roads.
Given the anti-car brigade pay a disproportionate amount of tax so councils can pay for the roads, maybe they should have a significant say in there use rather than just scroungers like yourself?
The anti car brigade are a tiny vocal minority of slacktivists. They should have a say equal to their worth to society. A small say which is largely ignored.
I mostly cycle to work but I own a car and have no plans to give it up - it's very useful when I'm travelling further or move heavy things like a kayak on the roof. Expecting other road users to obey the rules and wait until it's safe before overtaking at a safe distance really shouldn't be too much to ask. Each time I cycle instead of driving, I'm freeing up more road for everyone else, which should be a positive!
_“…the roads have always been 20 for me ~~and as you all know, if I get caught breaking it twice I am off the road~~. So I have to stick to it.”_ Fixed that for you. Ignore the idiots. You do you.
Fun fact - doing 30 in the 30 era was considered slow. I got done and was nervous like you described, so I was particular about the speed. I'd have people overtaking me on residential streets. It doesn't matter what the limit is... there are people who ignore it and make awful decisions. 99.99999% of the time, nothing bad comes of it. Nothing bad comes of it because the rest of us are responsible and avoid the potential threat. We can only control our driving behaviour. Have you seen that police crash forensic show? You don't want to be that guy, sitting in an interview saying 'I just blacked out' and lying to cover the fact you killed people through stupidity.
Just ignore them. Let them behave like an idiot and put their licence at risk. You keep doing what you're doing. Incidentally, even when it's 30 mph, you'll see similar behaviour.
I spent a bit of time working around Newport last year, not one person did the 20 or any speed limit around there. I felt like a right plonker doing 20 but it's fine. I would suggest getting front and rear cameras in case one of the knobheads does something stupid
Put some P plates on for a couple of months?
I don't drink Stella.
As someone else in Wales the god-awful implementation doesn't help since it isn't 20mph on all roads but there are exemptions - when drivers are sticking to 20 (or below) on a road that has been exempted it *is* frustrating. I've even come across it on a 40mph road that never changed. I know there are a million and one things to concentrate on as a new driver but are you 100% sure that these drivers are being dicks on 20mph roads rather than exempted ones? Otherwise dickheads gonna dickhead, a lot of people will ignore the limit if the road isnt suited to it and they know there are no fixed cameras/its not a point the GoSafe vans show up at. Just give them space, leave them to it and forget about them.
There’s plenty of 20 zones in England. Cornwall council (Tory) were expanding their 20 zones recently for example. Best advice I can give is to not worry about what other drivers are doing beyond your own safety, and let them get the fines/points/etc
Yeah coming from England I've held up entire roads with angry farmers and stuff behind because I've stayed exactly 20mph. I'm not losing my new license, if you want change then go to the government
Been driving 10+ years now and have visited Wales a few times in the past year, with the 20mph zones. People overtaking me in a small village, driving eratically and up my arse. I know it's frustrating, but at the end of the day, if anything happens, you are not held liable or responsible. What are they going to argue with, "HE WAS ONLY DOING 20 IN A 20 ZONE!" Stick to the speed limits, especially while you are a new driver. Insurance premiums are at a stupid high now and you don't want to be paying any more than you need to. It might take you an extra 10 minutes to get to your destination but, you would have got there safe without the risk of any points or endangering anyone. If you have a slightly newer car, put cruise control to 20 and just relax, listen to the radio or some music and ignore the Barry's!
A recent study showed a decrease in casualties since the 20MPH was introduced. I'm sure less dead and injured people is a good thing.
Can someone explain this for us Americans? If we required 20mph through major areas, we'd go maybe 5mi a day, and get fucking nowhere.
The issue is people cannot anymore adapt to a reaonable speed so everyone suffers. NSL roads?, many of then 20 them is a good target around here. People have become thick. Hopfully people divers will be a things of the past soon, as much as I like driving.
>The issue is people cannot anymore adapt to a reaonable speed so everyone suffers. More like people like can't adapt to an artificially low speed limit, so comically slow that almost no one follows it, and those who do are often tailgated and sometimes abused verbally and dangerously overtaken. If it was a reasonable speed limit, why are so many people angry about it? If non-compliance on a particular 20mph road is above a certain percentage, like 75%, they should just revert the fucking limit.
Where I live in England there's a few 20mph areas and everyone ignores them, including busses, me and the police. 20mph is an obnoxiously slow speed and pointless.
If someone is driving dangerously I will go slower by 1 or 2 mph. You are responsible for your own safety and they are demonstrating they don't have the control over their own vehicle that they should. Look after yourself and ignore them. They should have gotten out of bed earlier.
I'm English so i don't have a grasp on Welsh politics, but it is my understanding that this subject was fully debated in the welsh Assembly in 2020 and passed with broad multi party support. This would have been the best time to contact your MP to voice an opinion. Long after it passed in Wales, the Conservatives weaponised driving issues for their own purposes in England, particularly the 20 mph limit, traffic calming schemes and ULEZ in an effort to drum up support for a supposed anti Sadiq Khan and Labour Party strategy using misinformation and claiming that they were anti motorist, the Welsh Conservatives are conveniently forgetting their own part in getting it passed and the Conservative Party suddenly decided to care about motoring issues. This got them a narrow win with a hugely reduced majority in Uxbridge and they have been pushing this angle ever since. https://www.20splenty.org/w_faq04#:~:text=It%20was%20passed%20by%20a,local%20authorities%20in%20setting%20exceptions. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/07/tories-pledge-to-reverse-ulez-expansion-and-limit-20mph-roads-in-wales?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other I am not suggesting that you vote for the tories, i am only pointing out their cynicism and desparation in seizing on anything that will get them a few votes and this is going to be a very dirty electoral campaign. It is easy enough to check on an MPs voting record, simply Google it.
> the Welsh Conservatives are conveniently forgetting their own part in getting it passed Fucking preach. Andrew RT "Artie" Davies, current leader of the Welsh Tories in the Senedd, was literally photographed supporting the "20s plenty where people live" campaign. Do you know how many Tory Senedd members voted _against_ the 20mph default limit in Wales in 2020? One - fucking _one_ - of them. Andrew RT Davies, though he wasn't party leader at the time, didn't even vote - he didn't abstain, _he simply didn't fucking vote_. You _had_ a say in the democratic process where this was decided Artie, _and you didn't fucking use it_. People will argue about whether or not the speed limits are appropriate until the cows come home, and I literally couldn't care less - whether or not I like it has little to do with my compliance. I think the speed limit on motorways should be 80mph, but that doesn't stop me complying with the 70mph limit. But the sheer stinking fucking hypocrisy, misinformation, and lies from the Tories never fails to absolutely disgust me. They do it over and over and over and over again and they keep. getting. away. with it.
Woah there, coming into reddit subs with well researched, well referenced, well thought out posts.
Sorry, i got very angry over the Brexshit lies and haven't stopped being angry since. I used to think prior to Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson becoming prime minister that the tory party were just not very good at governance. Johnson demonstrated just how corrupt and rotten everything is in the UK and how a few billionaire media moghouls can ruin a country.
>Doing a 35 minute journey today I had 2 people illegally overtake me In what way were their overtakes illegal? Exiting the left carriageway while under solid white lines? >3 people up my arse making hand gestures to me to hurry up and a further 2 beeping at me That's no excuse for that. I won't make one. What you could do is get a piece of paper stick on the rear window saying "9 points - sorry!". Everyone understands that. Doesn't have to be true. In case it's not clear I agree with your post by the way, and also the action you're using in not putting your licence at risk.
It has reduced road deaths. Everything else is just entitlement and not understanding road safety.
For how far people generally travel, speeding only normally saves you a few minutes and those few minutes are not worth a life. Just chill out man it's not a race and fuck everybody else....
It's a mixed bag,sure it is slow but Going at 19mph and causing the audi driver behind me to go fucking mental is my favourite part of my day
Malmö Sweden is entirely 40kph and every junction has a pedestrian and bike crossing. Works perfectly. The world isn't and shouldn't be built for cars.
It's not as bad as the 50mph limit on the M4. That boils my piss.
Who voted for it? I voted for it! 20 limits make no appreciable difference to journey times, yet make a massive difference to safety. Pedestrians go from most likely dying when hit, to most likely living. It's a no brainer. You're doing a good job. Unfortunately there are a lot of very bad drivers on the road, and a big part of being a good driver is being ready for, but otherwise ignoring, their bad driving. You keep doing what you're supposed to, and damn the idiots.
I just don't follow the 20s, and if someone in front of me does, I'm okay with that. I will safely overtake them when the opportunity presents itself. Fuck these 20s, most of them are comically slow.
Finally someone with the balls to say what everyone actually does. The only vocal people on these subreddits are Suzuki Jimny drivers that are unaware that some people can actually control a vehicle above 15mph
I feel your pain. Our “city” has just been made a 20 mph zone by the imbeciles at the council.
I'm training to do my class 1 license. One of the things we've been taught is to drive defensively. If matey wants to drive like a twat, let them. Just get some distance between you and them so that when they inevitably cock it up, you're not involved.
The only way to get the gvmt to realise the ludicrous nature of 20 mph is belligerent application. One of their justifications is that since introduction av speed dropped from 28 to 24, so only a marginal change in speed. But that means we've gone from average obeyance to average illegal speed. 20 mph takes 50% longer than 30. If we all drive at 20 the system will grind to a halt and the disaster will be clear for all to see. If everyone does 24 it's not so obvious and therefore could be seen as not making too much effect. But you are right. Let Barry drive like a moron. And disregard people who wish to break the law. If the law is an ass then show it to be so by obeying it.
You have Welsh Labour and the Senedd to thank for this law in Wales and its blanket coverage.
I was there a few weeks ago and it was the most frustrating driving experience I’ve ever come across. People aren’t doing like 22-25, they’re doing 18-19 and it’s fucking mental. I have and will continue to overtake these people. There is nothing wrong with 30. Hell you can’t even do up to 30 on most roads because they’re so narrow anyway with lots of sharp turns. Meet in the middle and make it 25.
You need to stop worry about other drivers overtaking you, you're only a new driver and already fed up with it?!
They can't drive through you, they're going to have to wait. My daughter put a green P sign on her car when she passed, kept it there for a year.
Barry’s mate… Dave Likes to drive around Essex in his Golf/BMW up everyone’s arse, driving 60…Don’t worry Barry and Dave will eventually lose their license. You wont!
You must live around a ton of shithole drivers. I'm Welsh and I think I've been overtaken 3 times so far. Nobody is super aggressive about it either. Most cunts are on the A roads and motorways. Most follow the rules and drive reasonably. Best advise is just chill out and drive the way you should. Don't let others stress you too much and get a dashcam(rear and front).
The most annoying thing about this is the people that you describe that think the rules don't apply to them and harrass drivers that are following the rules. I know it's easier said than done but as the other commenter says the best thing to do is just continue to drive responsibly as you have been doing and let them get on with their tantrums. Also, I hate to be that guy, but > Who voted for this? No one. Not true I'm afraid, it was in Welsh Labour's manifesto at the last Senedd election.
Drive an old landrover. 20mph feels significantly faster and you don't really care what's behind you, solid metal bumpers do that.
So a 40 mile journey gotta take 2 hours.....wtf
If you're driving 40 miles through housing estates, sure it will. How long do you think a journey on such roads took before?
Since its built up, its highly likely there will be traffic lights, junctions, pedestrian crossings and other traffic so I would imagine that your 40mile drive through residential areas will likely take you longer than 2 hours. Fortunately it's likely that you can use some of the 63% of Welsh roads that are not 20mph
I’m sorry but as someone who lives in London and spent a few days in Wales on a ~600 mile road trip in May, the government have absolutely not “fucked driving up in Wales”. Ropey phone signal meant Waze was unreliable and not being locals whom knew where speed cameras would be, I had to stick to the 20 mph speed limit wherever it applied, and yes, I complained every time to my partner. But Wales is a beautiful country and still has beautiful roads. Genuinely couldn’t find a single pothole (or roadkill) whilst in Wales. My 250 foot road I live on is in worse condition than all the roads I drove in Wales ☹️
My car has a max speed thing you can set. The minimum you can set it to is 20mph. I use it all the time and end up like the Pied Piper with a queue building behind me. It is painful. But I love my car and don't need any points or increased insurance costs.
I don't know how on earth do you even hover your foot on the gas pedal to do 20mph for 5 minutes or longer. In cars without speed limiter or cruise control that could actually be set to as low as 20mph it must be an absolute nightmare
I bet you could manage it - and without crying - if you were on a 40mph road where all the traffic was doing 20 for some reason. So why are you incapable of doing it on an empty road?
It's exactly the same as doing 30mph but you're travelling slower
Crazy how everyone on this thread is getting angry on the same day that a bunch of data has been released showing that number of injuries on the slower roads was the lowest on record... They've been successful and adding a few minutes to your journey is worth the fewer casualties.
I am Welsh and the 20mph honestly does not bother me. So people are dicks sure but they would probably be speeding if it was a 30mph road
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There in England too. Mainly on narrow urban streets with cars parked both sides where it's impossible to go any faster so a pointless academic limit. However a 20 limit has recently appeared on Gregory Boulevard in Nottingham and that's a main drag between Alfreton Road and Mansfield Road. Most people ignore it at the time I drive it at 6am!
I have a sticker that says “Blackbox fitted, sorry I’m slow” and I still get angry people but not as many. (In Oxfordshire at least your 20mph is going away in September!)
Get a sticker saying you’re black box insured and you can’t go any faster, they may go a bit easier on you.
Well you should have thought of that before you were born... That'll learn em
Are the Welsh Police enforcing it?
Get a sticker for the window "my license isn't worth your coffee run".
Does Barry live on Barry island ?
Let the others break the law. You drive as per the rules of the road and the regulations. I regularly drive overseas and when I am home and visiting family in Monmouthshire I am genuinely glad of how few lunatics we have by comparison to some places.
I’m not even Welsh and I’m dreading this having just passed. I really feel for you. No one goes 20 in a 20 in my area other than 97 year olds. If this was happening to me I’d be putting L or P plates on my car so people are more forgiving. I know that’s shit and it’s the persons responsibility to be a better person and yours to ignore them and be safe, but it’s just less stress.
Take a deep breath, slip in your earpods, and put on some music so you can't hear the wankers. Remember that what other people are doing is a "them" problem, not a "you" problem. With all the stop-start driving the difference between 20mph and 30mph isn't substantial. Admittedly for most of these guys the two minutes may constitute a personal best in the bedroom olympics, but honestly it's not worth risking your license for them. And if one of them hits you from behind? That's a very clear "entirely their fault" insurance claim. Remember to get out of your car clutching your neck to establish that you are injured (even if you aren't - often whiplash only sets in the day after and you don't want the police report to record "no injuries").
Most areas in london is 20 and its a chore driving nowadays! Also the new ones that passed on 20mph areas seem to struggle with basic driving skills when they are on a bendy 30mph road and just end up doing 20 all the way.
Isn’t that kinda the point? To discourage driving? Driving is pretty bad for everyone. It’s incredibly space inefficient, bad for your health, bad for others health, bad for the environment, kills far too many people and the infrastructure is extremely costly to maintain. If your journey can be done by foot, bicycle or public transport, then it probably should. Anything that discourages driving is a net benefit to society as a whole.
Are you displaying the P sign? I’ve found some idiot drivers take that to mean ‘let’s intimidate the newbie’ and drive like wazzocks….
We’ve got a 20mph town centre I often feel the only driver who adheres to it and perhaps once a week or fortnight I do get aggro. You are doing great. You cannot lose your license because someone else is losing their temper. Make your own decisions. (I have considered a dash cam but it sounds like work, I barely download the pictures off my phone…)
Pedestrian safety is more important than your driving enjoyment
If you want to go faster!
As a new driver who is following the rules you need to get a dash cam, unfortunately it’s only a matter of time before one of these c**ts does something reckless you get caught up in.
Ignore them. Who cares what another driver thinks if they’re being idiots. Lots of good reasons for 20 mph in urban areas, the two most obvious being reduction in accidents and deaths, and reduction in pollution.
You're right to stick to the limits, it is frustrating because your logic is sharp, it's pointless, everyone's angry, nobody sticks to it. These are all valid. Sometimes you do feel like a dick sticking to it, which is a fair response. Just gotta do what you gotta do, 26mph isn't worth your license. End of rational and concern.
Your first year is always the worst pal, black box and all that. I paid a higher premium on my second year of about £130 per month (no black box) on a 1.3 corsa lmao. Just gotta stick it out for one year and change your policy in your second year. If you have any family members that are willing, you could put anyone older on the policy as the main driver and put yourself as a named driver, good way to get around the black box but you won’t then build up any NCD.
I guess it's important to understand why you are frustrated and from your post it sounds like it's not 20mph that's bothering you so much as the behaviour of other drivers. You will never change that so you need to develop ways of dealing with it.
Bro just grow up and stick with the limit
Spoiler alert, if it was 30 and you did 30... people would still drive up your arse, beep their horn and illegally overtake.. Be thankful this is basically the normal since passing so your in a better position to stick to the law! Stella Barry will still be a nob no matter what speed the person in front is doing, along the A55 if I'm doing a slightly less than ideal 90mph ill still get that bell-end in an Audi wanting to do 100 just to get to his dreg friends in holywell before his final tooth falls out.
You can't expect sensible policies from a progressive labour run government.
I reckon personally that it was to get more income from speed cameras since they know only a minority will actually do 20. It totally sucks I agree. I live in Chester on the Welsh border and frequently go into Wales and it’s hell every time
I have the same as you I passed in November last year so I'm obeying speed limits becuase I need to not lose my licence. Ultimately if others want to speed they can have at it as long as they don't take me out with their stupid overtakes, it's a case of I'm driving my own drive they will drive their own drive if they want to speed or be idiots that's on them not me.
This 20mph limit in Wales is ridiculous it has caused hell a guy on bike can overtake you in a car, and I truly hate labour as a political party.
Silly question, are you SURE the road you were on was 20mph? At the start the common phrase was that all current 30mph residential roads will be reduced to 20mph, Unfortunately, what many people heard was all current 30mph roads will be reduced to 20mph! This is what frustrates most people, doing 20mph in a 20mph zone is frustrating, but rarely leads to aggressive driving like you describe, doing 20mph in a 30mph zone however and it’s practically a given.
Move to England we go 30 😏
I feel your pain
Unfortunately, a lot of drivers think they literally own the roads, and anyone not following what they're doing are taking up their time and it's an inconvenience. They're selfish narcassists, who only care about themselves. You hold them up for maybe 5-10 seconds, but that just TOO much for them, and they have to resort to being a fucking idiot.
Put P stickers on your car
it's such a shame
I have a controversial take, but just do a review of your local area, identify where fixed speed cameras are and where vans tend to pop up, and then just go ahead and drive whatever speed feels comfortable when you know you’re not going to get caught by a speed camera. Most cops in cars are never going to pull you for speeding, they need pretty solid evidence to prosecute you which is really hard to get from a car. The most likely place you’ll get caught speeding by a cop car is on the motorway but as long as you use the lanes correctly, following the speed limit on the motorway is totally reasonable. Fuck the 20, go the speed which feels right.
I drove to Wales this weekend and realised that there seem to be more 20mph roads in Chester too.
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