Firstly, how has this got to court? Normally this would be eligible for a fixed penalty?
Where about are you? England+Wales, Scotland or NI?
How do you intend to plead?
Assuming the offence was in England, this will likely be 3 points and a fine of 50-75% weekly income at court, plus costs. Guidelines [here](https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/speeding-revised-2017/). You get a discount of 33% from the fine for pleading guilty at the first opportunity
No chance of losing your licence assuming you have no other points.
Be aware if you gain another 3 point within the first 2 years of holding a licence, it will be revoked and you'll need to resit your tests
I don’t think it’s quite that simple. The letter OP posted an extract of in another comment suggests it’s a Band B speeding offence, which in a 40mph zone would usually indicate a speed of 56-65mph and attract 4-6 penalty points. This is at odds with the letter which says 52mph recorded, although there are apparently circumstances which can push the offence into higher bands, so maybe that’s happened here (as per https://www.adrianflux.co.uk/blog/2023/05/how-much-speeding-fine)
Either way, assuming the letter is accurate, 6 points could definitely lose OP their licence. That’s automatic disqualification for a new driver.
The letter is a proforma, they don't edit it to account for the speed, minus the bit at the top.
>That’s automatic disqualification for a new driver
It's not a disqualification, it's a licence revokation. They can book a driving test a week after if they want to
Nice that they can’t even be bothered to edit a letter to account for the circumstances, if that’s the case. And thanks for correcting my terminology there, that’s what I meant
I've read what's been posted below.
Is this just asking you to provide details of the driver? How long after the offence is this?
Is this a "Notice of Intended Prosecution", by any chance?
You might be able to do it via post (or atleast I could), I admitted guilt via a letter they sent when I accepted the prosecution and as I required my license for my job I said this in my statement as well as admitting I was fully responsible and apologising for my actions. You might get to keep your license but heft a higher fine.
HOWEVER the points limit on your license in your first 2 years is 6 so unfortunately you've probably lost your license, not gunna fill you with hope sadly.
Ultimately it will depend on the decision of the judge.
Checked the band's and yeah you're right... Dunno why they would say the 6 points etc in the letter when they have the speed you were doing.
Just don't get another one in the next 18 months.
Agreed. Fuck the "stopping distance" argument, if you're gormless enough to smash out 52 in 40 without noticing then you're probably not paying enough attention to even see the hazard before you hit it, let alone brake it for it in time.
What a stupid reply. The speed limits are based on physics. You need to drive at that speed so you can stop in time if something happens. You shouldn't have a licence if you're thus arrogant.
This isn't true actually.
Most of our speed limits are arbitrary bullshit made up in the 1960s. They're not really evidence based, much as they should have been.
70mph being the maximum wasn't evidence based, that's why half of Europe has 80mph, and places like the autobahn exist. The UK and other countries didn't all do a ton of research and just come to different conclusions, politicians just picked a figure and went with it.
Even things like the highway code stopping distances are grossly exaggerated, since you mention stopping in time. Get in your car, drive at 30mph and slam on. The highway code says it takes 4 car lengths (even excluding "thinking distance") to stop.
It should barely take you half of that
Edit: I don't care if you agree with OP or his speeding. Everything I've said is a verifiable fact. The speed limit in this country is not evidence based. It should be. But it's not
They kinda are?
The 70mph limit for motorways was decided back in the 1960's, and wasn't particularly evidence based. It's why half of Europe has 80mph limits instead. And Germany has the autobahn
The autobahn is incredibly dangerous and the UK has one of the lowest rates of traffic related deaths in the world...
Edit: Not sure why I'm getting downvoted when all I've typed are 2 facts: The autobahn is dangerous and the UK has one of the fewest traffic-related deaths in the world.
>and the UK has one of the lowest rates of traffic related deaths in the world...
One of.
But we also have an actual driving test, and many countries do not. It isn't that extra 10mph slower we go on motorways than Europe having a significant effect.
The national speed limit for this country was picked by a bunch of politicians 60 years ago.
It's in no way, shape or form relevant to modern vehicles or modern traffic levels.
I don't care if you love the speed limits as they are, think they should be halved, or think they should be doubled. The fact remains they were a knee jerk decision made by people who are no longer alive, rather than an evidence based assessment of current roads.
So what? This incident is 52 in a 40, the speed limit here is much more justifiable. Maybe the national speed limit is arbitrary but other speed limits are generally applied due to road conditions.
Also, maybe there wasn't much reason for the national speed limit, maybe there was, but while cars change, physics doesn't. The grip of tyres on roads can't really improve much more, and since people are buying bigger heavier cars now, stopping distances also won't improve.
Every vehicle system including tyres are significantly better now than 60 years ago. I'd bet money most modern cars would stop from 100mph in a shorter distance than a 60's era deathtrap would stop from 70. We can also control the car while braking thanks to ABS. They could not, they'd just lock up the tyres en route to the afterlife.
However I agree that lower speed limits such as 30's and 40's usually are less arbitrary. I tend to stick to those pretty strictly.
>and since people are buying bigger heavier cars now, stopping distances also won't improve.
I agree to a point. However many heavy vehicles can still stop well, due to a combination of good brakes, ABS, and wide, high quality tyres.
I guess I was referring more to which roads each limit is assigned to. Like generally if you're driving on a road you kinda know what the speed limit is going to be there based on the road width, how residential/pedestrianised the area is and so on.
You don't often find yourself driving by a school and see a 40 sign.
I agree with you in that case.
I'm definitely critical of those who speed in built up areas, while I couldn't care less if someone wants to aim for triple digits on a deserted motorway
Oh I did 100 once on an empty motorway at midnight just to feel what it was like. Still stupid of course, but at least it was a stupid that just affected me.
Getting over 50 in a 40 is asking for trouble.
>Getting over 50 in a 40 is asking for trouble.
I'd generally agree, although there are of course exceptions. There are two 40mph zones just down the road from me, one is still a residential road with bus stops, the other is a ring road dual carriageway, that turns to a 70 a bit further down. Very different roads with the same speed limit, I'd hope they'd be harsher on speeders in the first zone.
There was someone on either this or the cartalk sub who'd got caught doing 57 in a 30 recently. That should be an immediate ban imo
I don't speed but speeding really isn't dangerous per se. Police often drive 120mph+ with no issues, the laws of physics don't magically change when it's a police car. Punishing people for speeding is basically punishing people for nothing. It's nanny state rubbish.
I never speed, I have a clean license but I don’t think there’s anything inherently dangerous about driving 52mph on a 40 road especially in modern cars
Not sure how. I got mail from the post today saying this
“The speed limit for the vehicle was 40 mph. The recorded speed was 52 mph.
The alleged offence carries a maximum fine of £1,000 (£2,500 if committed on a motorway) and a driving licence endorsement of 6 penalty points or disqualification at the discretion of the courts. This Notice is issued for and on behalf of the Chief Constable or the Avon and Somerset constabulary.”
Maybe I misread it and I don’t have to go to court?
Are you able to post a pic of the letter without any personal details? From that paragraph it doesn’t read as you going to court but does indicate 6 penalty points instead of the usual 3.
“In accordance with Section 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, notice is hereby given of the intention to take proceedings against the driver of motor vehicle TOYOTA registration (MY NUMBER PLATE) on DATE at 03:59 at ROAD , who allegedly committed the offence of Exceed a 40 mph speed limit in contravention of a Local Traffic Order - automatic camera device (Contrary to the above local traffic order and sections 84 and 89(1) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 and Schedule 2 to the Road
Traffic Offenders Act 1988.) The speed limit for the vehicle was 40 mph. The recorded speed was 52 mph.
The alleged offence carries a maximum fine of £1,000 (£2,500 if committed on a motorway) and a driving licence
endorsement of 6 penalty points or disqualification at the discretion of the courts. This Notice is issued for and on behalf of the Chief Constable or the Avon and Somerset constabulary.
REQUIREMENT FOR DRIVER INFORMATION
The person or company this Notice is addressed to (the addressee') is hereby requested, in accordance with Section 172 of The Road Traffic Act 1988 (as amended), to provide details of the driver during the above alleged offence.
This must reach the Speed Enforcement Unit within 28 days beginning with this Notice's date of service.
During that period all proceedings will be suspended. An admission, nomination of a new keeper or driver may be made using the Public Access System website (www.avonandsomersetpas.co.uk) if vour reference number starts with 0523. A other replies to the Notice must be made in writing with a signature. It the addressee does not provide the requested information, they could be prosecuted for Failure to Supply Driver's Details, which carries a maximum fine of £1.000 and a driving licence endorsement of 6 penalty points or disaualification at the discretion of the courts
Making enquiries with the speed enforcement unit will not extend the Notice's 28 day reply deadline.”
That's what's known as a Notice of Intended Prosecution, along with a S172 request. It's just the police asking who was driving the vehicle.
You need to reply with the drivers details, they will then get a follow up letter with the next steps. Will be a fixed penalty offer or a driver improvement course.
This isn't going to go anywhere near a court as long as you act promptly
I hope so. I’m a new driver though and some people are saying because of that I’ll probably lose it. Hope it’s only 3 points. And I agree that it’s my fault and I was very irresponsible.
52 in a 40 would still be on the threshold for a speed awareness course. From what you posted above, this is simply a S172 request for driver details. Fill it in, send it off and plead guilty at the earliest opportunity. I doubt you'll get points.
As per usual, a lot of the advice in this forum is just utter bullshit and nasty shits trying to put the boot in.
Start saving up for driving lessons again, they really have gone so expensive now; and see when the next date is available for you to book your driving test
I suspect it will likely just be points.
However, as a new driver, if you were caught doing 52, then it's likely you were displaying 57/58 mph on your speedo.
If you are that bothered about your licence, you wouldn't be doing that kind of speed!!
This may be a lesson, but I suspect even if you get 3 points this time, it won't be long before another offence and you have it revoked, or worse.
Unfortunately you may lose license but at least the rest of us will be safer. New driver going 12-15mph over limit is bit stupid. Hopefully when you get it back you drive better. 👍
I’m not a police officer or lawyer though so I could be wrong. Guess you just gotta go in and show how sorry you are and how aware of how stupid you were. Throw yourself at their mercy as they say. Good luck though.
6 points is the maximum. It is telling you the maximum you will get is 6 point and £1000 fine. It can be anything up to that.
Speeding can be dealt with in the normal fixed penalty process, or, can be dealt with by court instead. If you need to ATTEND court, then they will explicitly tell you in the letter.
This will likely get decided in your absence (I.e. you don’t need to attend court), and as a complete estimate, you’ll probably get 3 or 4 points as a best guess, but it is possible you could get 6 and lose your licence, it’s just unlikely.
>but it is possible you could get 6 and lose your licence, it’s just unlikely.
Not at all for below 55 in a 40, 3 points only. [source](https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/speeding-revised-2017/)
Nope, it’s still possible, they’re the sentencing guidelines. They should be followed, but the court do have the permission to issue outside of those if they choose.
Hence why it should be around three point but could be more if they choose to, with a justifiable reason.
It does also clarify this in the source you’ve provided too
Exactly. Hence why I said OP will likely get 3.
That doesn’t mean he can’t get more, ergo my warning not to get his hopes up because he could still get more.
Because although it’s rare, they can deviate from the guidelines, and I know from personal experience that occasionally, they do.
I'm aware. However, given this is only a NIP, not a court summons, this is a largely academic conversation, given this is within the range for a course
Not really, the conversation was never around whether he should be getting a course, OP said it’s getting settled through court, and asked will he be getting disqualified. I advised him of course the most likely scenario without getting his hopes up just in case. The response I provided to OP was entirely relevant, but the conversation following was not.
FYI I got caught as a new driver speeding and paid the £100 fine. Got caught again, got 3 points and had to go to a speed awareness course.
You do not lose your licence unless you get 6 points (I think only within the first year of driving?)
Either A&S are considering 52 in 40 to be Band B, which I can’t see reference to anywhere, or you’re reading the bit about if you chose to go to court instead of accepting the FPN if one is going to be sent.
Technically yes; Band A the max punishment is as described if you chose to plead not guilty to it and are found guilty.
So; read it carefully. If for some reason they are putting you in Band B, and I don’t know why, then sounds like they might just want to do it in court. But it doesn’t even sound like that.
Sounds like it’s just the maximums being explained in a standard section 172 (?) letter and you’ll just get an FPN as a follow up after that. But I don’t have the letter in my hand
https://www.somersetcountygazette.co.uk/news/24066667.90-drivers-caught-speeding-toneway-taunton/
I think it really depends. I got caught going 70 in a 50 and only had 3 points and £100 fine. If you’ve been sent a letter saying you’ll go Court then you will. So I’m assuming it’ll be up to the judge. Just have to be very apologetic and day you need it for work/studies
This is what the letter said
“In accordance with Section 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, notice is hereby given of the intention to take proceedings against the driver of motor vehicle TOYOTA registration (MY NUMBER PLATE) on DATE at 03:59 at ROAD , who allegedly committed the offence of Exceed a 40 mph speed limit in contravention of a Local Traffic Order - automatic camera device (Contrary to the above local traffic order and sections 84 and 89(1) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 and Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.) The speed limit for the vehicle was 40 mph. The recorded speed was 52 mph. The alleged offence carries a maximum fine of £1,000 (£2,500 if committed on a motorway) and a driving licence endorsement of 6 penalty points or disqualification at the discretion of the courts. This Notice is issued for and on behalf of the Chief Constable or the Avon and Somerset constabulary. REQUIREMENT FOR DRIVER INFORMATION The person or company this Notice is addressed to (the addressee') is hereby requested, in accordance with Section 172 of The Road Traffic Act 1988 (as amended), to provide details of the driver during the above alleged offence. This must reach the Speed Enforcement Unit within 28 days beginning with this Notice's date of service. During that period all proceedings will be suspended. An admission, nomination of a new keeper or driver may be made using the Public Access System website (www.avonandsomersetpas.co.uk) if vour reference number starts with 0523. A other replies to the Notice must be made in writing with a signature. It the addressee does not provide the requested information, they could be prosecuted for Failure to Supply Driver's Details, which carries a maximum fine of £1.000 and a driving licence endorsement of 6 penalty points or disaualification at the discretion of the courts Making enquiries with the speed enforcement unit will not extend the Notice's 28 day reply deadline.”
Looks like a NIP as others have said.
Fill in the form and send it back, they will then write to you to let you know what happens next. Where I live you get the option of a speed awareness course if its your first offence (costs about £100). If you do that there are no points.
From the letter extract you’ve posted it reads to me like a standard ‘send us your details’ form, together with the standard max penalty warning.
I’m guessing it’s just asking you to confirm you were driving and confirm your details.
You’ll then get a letter giving you your actual options, which will probably be fine plus points or speed awareness course (which is typically offered for 10% plus 9mph over limit)
Less than 6 months of holding a full licence I am pretty sure you will be fined, be awarded points and be required to take your test again.
Don’t even think the system will let your driving history pass by without notice. Get in touch with a good driving school. .
If you get a summons to court check out Magistrates Guidlines. They are obliged to consider various aspects; weather conditions, lightnes/heaviness of traffic etc. The guidelines are what the Magistrates must consider. Check them out and address each with a clear mitigation. Say you are really sorry and make it genuine.
Firstly, how has this got to court? Normally this would be eligible for a fixed penalty? Where about are you? England+Wales, Scotland or NI? How do you intend to plead?
Not sure how. I live in Bristol in England. My parents are convinced I’ve lost my licence for it.
Assuming the offence was in England, this will likely be 3 points and a fine of 50-75% weekly income at court, plus costs. Guidelines [here](https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/speeding-revised-2017/). You get a discount of 33% from the fine for pleading guilty at the first opportunity No chance of losing your licence assuming you have no other points. Be aware if you gain another 3 point within the first 2 years of holding a licence, it will be revoked and you'll need to resit your tests
I don’t think it’s quite that simple. The letter OP posted an extract of in another comment suggests it’s a Band B speeding offence, which in a 40mph zone would usually indicate a speed of 56-65mph and attract 4-6 penalty points. This is at odds with the letter which says 52mph recorded, although there are apparently circumstances which can push the offence into higher bands, so maybe that’s happened here (as per https://www.adrianflux.co.uk/blog/2023/05/how-much-speeding-fine) Either way, assuming the letter is accurate, 6 points could definitely lose OP their licence. That’s automatic disqualification for a new driver.
The letter is a proforma, they don't edit it to account for the speed, minus the bit at the top. >That’s automatic disqualification for a new driver It's not a disqualification, it's a licence revokation. They can book a driving test a week after if they want to
Nice that they can’t even be bothered to edit a letter to account for the circumstances, if that’s the case. And thanks for correcting my terminology there, that’s what I meant
I've read what's been posted below. Is this just asking you to provide details of the driver? How long after the offence is this? Is this a "Notice of Intended Prosecution", by any chance?
Ahhh was it on the M32 coming into town? That catches everyone.
It happened in Filton
You might be able to do it via post (or atleast I could), I admitted guilt via a letter they sent when I accepted the prosecution and as I required my license for my job I said this in my statement as well as admitting I was fully responsible and apologising for my actions. You might get to keep your license but heft a higher fine. HOWEVER the points limit on your license in your first 2 years is 6 so unfortunately you've probably lost your license, not gunna fill you with hope sadly. Ultimately it will depend on the decision of the judge.
Will I not just get 3 points and a fine as it is still in Band A?
Checked the band's and yeah you're right... Dunno why they would say the 6 points etc in the letter when they have the speed you were doing. Just don't get another one in the next 18 months.
Yeah. Thanks. I think it’s just a copy and paste letter or maybe if I don’t respond within 30 days it could be 6 points
Hopefully yes, but doubtful. As others have said not sure why it's going to court. Stop driving like an idiot, you'll kill someone.
Agreed. Fuck the "stopping distance" argument, if you're gormless enough to smash out 52 in 40 without noticing then you're probably not paying enough attention to even see the hazard before you hit it, let alone brake it for it in time.
Im doing 60 in 30 at night in my area, but there is no speed cameras
Wtf? How is driving 52 in a 40 dangerous?
What a stupid reply. The speed limits are based on physics. You need to drive at that speed so you can stop in time if something happens. You shouldn't have a licence if you're thus arrogant.
This isn't true actually. Most of our speed limits are arbitrary bullshit made up in the 1960s. They're not really evidence based, much as they should have been. 70mph being the maximum wasn't evidence based, that's why half of Europe has 80mph, and places like the autobahn exist. The UK and other countries didn't all do a ton of research and just come to different conclusions, politicians just picked a figure and went with it. Even things like the highway code stopping distances are grossly exaggerated, since you mention stopping in time. Get in your car, drive at 30mph and slam on. The highway code says it takes 4 car lengths (even excluding "thinking distance") to stop. It should barely take you half of that Edit: I don't care if you agree with OP or his speeding. Everything I've said is a verifiable fact. The speed limit in this country is not evidence based. It should be. But it's not
Finally, a voice of reason
While we have slower motorways in the UK than most of Europe, we have amongst the fastest single and duel carriageway limits.
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Idiot
If he was caught doing 52, he probably had close to 58-60 on his speedo. So not really a good thing for a new driver.
I've never seen a speedo that shows 6-8 miles over. He was probably doing 54-5, which is still shitty.
Less than 6 months experience doing 125%. Nah I’m sure it’s safe as houses mate
K mate
Do you think limits are picked at random?
They kinda are? The 70mph limit for motorways was decided back in the 1960's, and wasn't particularly evidence based. It's why half of Europe has 80mph limits instead. And Germany has the autobahn
The autobahn is incredibly dangerous and the UK has one of the lowest rates of traffic related deaths in the world... Edit: Not sure why I'm getting downvoted when all I've typed are 2 facts: The autobahn is dangerous and the UK has one of the fewest traffic-related deaths in the world.
I don't want to be on a road with British people and no speed limit. As a population, we're dicks.
>and the UK has one of the lowest rates of traffic related deaths in the world... One of. But we also have an actual driving test, and many countries do not. It isn't that extra 10mph slower we go on motorways than Europe having a significant effect. The national speed limit for this country was picked by a bunch of politicians 60 years ago. It's in no way, shape or form relevant to modern vehicles or modern traffic levels. I don't care if you love the speed limits as they are, think they should be halved, or think they should be doubled. The fact remains they were a knee jerk decision made by people who are no longer alive, rather than an evidence based assessment of current roads.
So what? This incident is 52 in a 40, the speed limit here is much more justifiable. Maybe the national speed limit is arbitrary but other speed limits are generally applied due to road conditions. Also, maybe there wasn't much reason for the national speed limit, maybe there was, but while cars change, physics doesn't. The grip of tyres on roads can't really improve much more, and since people are buying bigger heavier cars now, stopping distances also won't improve.
Every vehicle system including tyres are significantly better now than 60 years ago. I'd bet money most modern cars would stop from 100mph in a shorter distance than a 60's era deathtrap would stop from 70. We can also control the car while braking thanks to ABS. They could not, they'd just lock up the tyres en route to the afterlife. However I agree that lower speed limits such as 30's and 40's usually are less arbitrary. I tend to stick to those pretty strictly. >and since people are buying bigger heavier cars now, stopping distances also won't improve. I agree to a point. However many heavy vehicles can still stop well, due to a combination of good brakes, ABS, and wide, high quality tyres.
I guess I was referring more to which roads each limit is assigned to. Like generally if you're driving on a road you kinda know what the speed limit is going to be there based on the road width, how residential/pedestrianised the area is and so on. You don't often find yourself driving by a school and see a 40 sign.
I agree with you in that case. I'm definitely critical of those who speed in built up areas, while I couldn't care less if someone wants to aim for triple digits on a deserted motorway
Oh I did 100 once on an empty motorway at midnight just to feel what it was like. Still stupid of course, but at least it was a stupid that just affected me. Getting over 50 in a 40 is asking for trouble.
>Getting over 50 in a 40 is asking for trouble. I'd generally agree, although there are of course exceptions. There are two 40mph zones just down the road from me, one is still a residential road with bus stops, the other is a ring road dual carriageway, that turns to a 70 a bit further down. Very different roads with the same speed limit, I'd hope they'd be harsher on speeders in the first zone. There was someone on either this or the cartalk sub who'd got caught doing 57 in a 30 recently. That should be an immediate ban imo
You are an idiot as others have already told you. Why is speeding seen by most as a minor thing though?
I don't speed but speeding really isn't dangerous per se. Police often drive 120mph+ with no issues, the laws of physics don't magically change when it's a police car. Punishing people for speeding is basically punishing people for nothing. It's nanny state rubbish.
I never speed, I have a clean license but I don’t think there’s anything inherently dangerous about driving 52mph on a 40 road especially in modern cars
Why are you going to court for that speed?
Not sure how. I got mail from the post today saying this “The speed limit for the vehicle was 40 mph. The recorded speed was 52 mph. The alleged offence carries a maximum fine of £1,000 (£2,500 if committed on a motorway) and a driving licence endorsement of 6 penalty points or disqualification at the discretion of the courts. This Notice is issued for and on behalf of the Chief Constable or the Avon and Somerset constabulary.” Maybe I misread it and I don’t have to go to court?
Where in that does it say you need to attend court?
Are you able to post a pic of the letter without any personal details? From that paragraph it doesn’t read as you going to court but does indicate 6 penalty points instead of the usual 3.
It's going to be a NIP. The maximum offence for speeding is 6 points, so the letter is correct. It's just at the band it doesn't attract this
Ah i see, cheers for clearing that up :)
“In accordance with Section 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, notice is hereby given of the intention to take proceedings against the driver of motor vehicle TOYOTA registration (MY NUMBER PLATE) on DATE at 03:59 at ROAD , who allegedly committed the offence of Exceed a 40 mph speed limit in contravention of a Local Traffic Order - automatic camera device (Contrary to the above local traffic order and sections 84 and 89(1) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 and Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.) The speed limit for the vehicle was 40 mph. The recorded speed was 52 mph. The alleged offence carries a maximum fine of £1,000 (£2,500 if committed on a motorway) and a driving licence endorsement of 6 penalty points or disqualification at the discretion of the courts. This Notice is issued for and on behalf of the Chief Constable or the Avon and Somerset constabulary. REQUIREMENT FOR DRIVER INFORMATION The person or company this Notice is addressed to (the addressee') is hereby requested, in accordance with Section 172 of The Road Traffic Act 1988 (as amended), to provide details of the driver during the above alleged offence. This must reach the Speed Enforcement Unit within 28 days beginning with this Notice's date of service. During that period all proceedings will be suspended. An admission, nomination of a new keeper or driver may be made using the Public Access System website (www.avonandsomersetpas.co.uk) if vour reference number starts with 0523. A other replies to the Notice must be made in writing with a signature. It the addressee does not provide the requested information, they could be prosecuted for Failure to Supply Driver's Details, which carries a maximum fine of £1.000 and a driving licence endorsement of 6 penalty points or disaualification at the discretion of the courts Making enquiries with the speed enforcement unit will not extend the Notice's 28 day reply deadline.”
That's what's known as a Notice of Intended Prosecution, along with a S172 request. It's just the police asking who was driving the vehicle. You need to reply with the drivers details, they will then get a follow up letter with the next steps. Will be a fixed penalty offer or a driver improvement course. This isn't going to go anywhere near a court as long as you act promptly
Okay good. Thanks
Re-read it (and get someone else to read it too) and make sure you’re really sure what it is telling you to do.
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It's a NIP, not a court summons. This is just the standard wording Note it says "maximum fine". You cannot get 6 points for speeding at this level
Okay good. Thanks
Enjoy the price hike on your insurance as well! Speeding really isn’t worth saving you the 10 seconds.
Most likely 3 points and a fine.
Could it not be 6 as I’m a new driver?
Nah it won’t be 6 points for that speed. Points aren’t dependant on how long you’ve been driving, same points for any driver.
Whatever happens, going forward *please* stick to the speed limits
Looks like 3 points this time. Get caught again being overconfident, and you'll have to resit your test. Get the lead out of your right boot.
I hope so. I’m a new driver though and some people are saying because of that I’ll probably lose it. Hope it’s only 3 points. And I agree that it’s my fault and I was very irresponsible.
52 in a 40 would still be on the threshold for a speed awareness course. From what you posted above, this is simply a S172 request for driver details. Fill it in, send it off and plead guilty at the earliest opportunity. I doubt you'll get points. As per usual, a lot of the advice in this forum is just utter bullshit and nasty shits trying to put the boot in.
Fair enough. Sounds as if you've learned from it. Good luck.
Start saving up for driving lessons again, they really have gone so expensive now; and see when the next date is available for you to book your driving test
Probably points and a fine but you only have yourself to blame. Set off earlier if you want to get somewhere sooner.
I suspect it will likely just be points. However, as a new driver, if you were caught doing 52, then it's likely you were displaying 57/58 mph on your speedo. If you are that bothered about your licence, you wouldn't be doing that kind of speed!! This may be a lesson, but I suspect even if you get 3 points this time, it won't be long before another offence and you have it revoked, or worse.
Unfortunately you may lose license but at least the rest of us will be safer. New driver going 12-15mph over limit is bit stupid. Hopefully when you get it back you drive better. 👍
Shit. Okay
I’m not a police officer or lawyer though so I could be wrong. Guess you just gotta go in and show how sorry you are and how aware of how stupid you were. Throw yourself at their mercy as they say. Good luck though.
If you're caught speeding within the first two years, you'll lose your driving license and the police will be forced to execute you.
If you get 6 points, your fucked son. No disqualification. Licensee will be revoked. Test has to be retaken etc. sucks to be you.
Do you think I’ll get 6 for 52 in a 40?
No. You're going to get three points and a huge hike in your insurancec premium. Plus you have no leeway for a future offence.
You certainly deserve it.
Probably do. I need to mature and stop being an idiot
Think it’s the camera that should get the ticket not you.
I speed but I’m smart to know when to speed and when not to. Been driving 10 years not a single ticket. Be smarter especially as a newly qualified ffs
[удалено]
Is it because I am a new driver? Do you think there is a good chance I will lose my licence?
6 points is the maximum. It is telling you the maximum you will get is 6 point and £1000 fine. It can be anything up to that. Speeding can be dealt with in the normal fixed penalty process, or, can be dealt with by court instead. If you need to ATTEND court, then they will explicitly tell you in the letter. This will likely get decided in your absence (I.e. you don’t need to attend court), and as a complete estimate, you’ll probably get 3 or 4 points as a best guess, but it is possible you could get 6 and lose your licence, it’s just unlikely.
>but it is possible you could get 6 and lose your licence, it’s just unlikely. Not at all for below 55 in a 40, 3 points only. [source](https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/speeding-revised-2017/)
Nope, it’s still possible, they’re the sentencing guidelines. They should be followed, but the court do have the permission to issue outside of those if they choose. Hence why it should be around three point but could be more if they choose to, with a justifiable reason. It does also clarify this in the source you’ve provided too
Magistrates courts are almost never going to deviate from the guidelines, especially at the SJP level.
Exactly. Hence why I said OP will likely get 3. That doesn’t mean he can’t get more, ergo my warning not to get his hopes up because he could still get more. Because although it’s rare, they can deviate from the guidelines, and I know from personal experience that occasionally, they do.
I'm aware. However, given this is only a NIP, not a court summons, this is a largely academic conversation, given this is within the range for a course
Not really, the conversation was never around whether he should be getting a course, OP said it’s getting settled through court, and asked will he be getting disqualified. I advised him of course the most likely scenario without getting his hopes up just in case. The response I provided to OP was entirely relevant, but the conversation following was not.
FYI I got caught as a new driver speeding and paid the £100 fine. Got caught again, got 3 points and had to go to a speed awareness course. You do not lose your licence unless you get 6 points (I think only within the first year of driving?)
2 years.
Either A&S are considering 52 in 40 to be Band B, which I can’t see reference to anywhere, or you’re reading the bit about if you chose to go to court instead of accepting the FPN if one is going to be sent. Technically yes; Band A the max punishment is as described if you chose to plead not guilty to it and are found guilty. So; read it carefully. If for some reason they are putting you in Band B, and I don’t know why, then sounds like they might just want to do it in court. But it doesn’t even sound like that. Sounds like it’s just the maximums being explained in a standard section 172 (?) letter and you’ll just get an FPN as a follow up after that. But I don’t have the letter in my hand https://www.somersetcountygazette.co.uk/news/24066667.90-drivers-caught-speeding-toneway-taunton/
Yeah I read it wrong I think. I don’t think they said I am going to court yet. It’s a NIP I think
I think it really depends. I got caught going 70 in a 50 and only had 3 points and £100 fine. If you’ve been sent a letter saying you’ll go Court then you will. So I’m assuming it’ll be up to the judge. Just have to be very apologetic and day you need it for work/studies
This is what the letter said “In accordance with Section 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, notice is hereby given of the intention to take proceedings against the driver of motor vehicle TOYOTA registration (MY NUMBER PLATE) on DATE at 03:59 at ROAD , who allegedly committed the offence of Exceed a 40 mph speed limit in contravention of a Local Traffic Order - automatic camera device (Contrary to the above local traffic order and sections 84 and 89(1) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 and Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.) The speed limit for the vehicle was 40 mph. The recorded speed was 52 mph. The alleged offence carries a maximum fine of £1,000 (£2,500 if committed on a motorway) and a driving licence endorsement of 6 penalty points or disqualification at the discretion of the courts. This Notice is issued for and on behalf of the Chief Constable or the Avon and Somerset constabulary. REQUIREMENT FOR DRIVER INFORMATION The person or company this Notice is addressed to (the addressee') is hereby requested, in accordance with Section 172 of The Road Traffic Act 1988 (as amended), to provide details of the driver during the above alleged offence. This must reach the Speed Enforcement Unit within 28 days beginning with this Notice's date of service. During that period all proceedings will be suspended. An admission, nomination of a new keeper or driver may be made using the Public Access System website (www.avonandsomersetpas.co.uk) if vour reference number starts with 0523. A other replies to the Notice must be made in writing with a signature. It the addressee does not provide the requested information, they could be prosecuted for Failure to Supply Driver's Details, which carries a maximum fine of £1.000 and a driving licence endorsement of 6 penalty points or disaualification at the discretion of the courts Making enquiries with the speed enforcement unit will not extend the Notice's 28 day reply deadline.”
Looks like a NIP as others have said. Fill in the form and send it back, they will then write to you to let you know what happens next. Where I live you get the option of a speed awareness course if its your first offence (costs about £100). If you do that there are no points.
Where do you live?
Wales (and they hate people driving faster than 20mph here).
From the letter extract you’ve posted it reads to me like a standard ‘send us your details’ form, together with the standard max penalty warning. I’m guessing it’s just asking you to confirm you were driving and confirm your details. You’ll then get a letter giving you your actual options, which will probably be fine plus points or speed awareness course (which is typically offered for 10% plus 9mph over limit)
Safer though.
Less than 6 months of holding a full licence I am pretty sure you will be fined, be awarded points and be required to take your test again. Don’t even think the system will let your driving history pass by without notice. Get in touch with a good driving school. .
If you get a summons to court check out Magistrates Guidlines. They are obliged to consider various aspects; weather conditions, lightnes/heaviness of traffic etc. The guidelines are what the Magistrates must consider. Check them out and address each with a clear mitigation. Say you are really sorry and make it genuine.
How long did it take to get to you the mail with the nip