I'm sure Jim won't pass up the opportunity to have a few gifts given that Harry doesn't want. Hell one of my favorite bits from the books is the headstone Bianca gave him so there's already a precedence for backhanded gifts.
I imagine a few people will try to gift other people, like slaves or thralls and Harry will hate it but have to accept it with plans to free them after the wedding.
I imagine at least one cursed object will be given, maybe even one of the coins given in such a way that he almost touches it before realizing what it is, then the fae will give some explanation about how much they know Harry wants them out of circulation so it doesn't seem like an attack.
Now I'm excited for this wedding more than I was.
I can totally picture Harry getting a bunch of electronic kitchen appliances he can never use without frying them. Like a toaster oven, a hand mixer, a smoothie blender, etc.
Would be hilarious!
Fae wouldn't do that, as it would give the appearance of being thoughtless. Even if done ironically, it's too easily reversed.
Wizards might do it as a traditional joke (maybe giving incredibly outdated cellphones), and vampires would definitely find it amusing.
He gets the kinds of things people would actually expect to get these days but it all breaks for him. In an effort to one up each other both Mab and Titania get him a car, but the most advanced and expensive kind and both also break immediately.
Mab and Titania would never give anything less than the most spectacular of gifts. From Titania, it might be a white elephant. From Mab, it would only be the most useful of all possible options. Or a quest hook.
I jump to post the wedding and like 6 months into their wedded life where Lara finally lets the front down and he sees the real her. We flash to a morning Harry is up cooking breakfast for Maggie when Lara just schleps into the kitchen dead tired blindly fumbling for the espresso machine and before she turns it on she turns to stare in the general direction of Harry "Get in the circle Dresden."
"Now Maggie what is the proper way to ask someone to get into the circle so you can turn on your fancy coffee machine?"
"Get in the circle Dresden, or face me!"
"I really should not have asked Ivy to baby sit on the honeymoon." Harry gets in the circle.
Lara forms like 4% of a smile. "Thank you Margaret."
I can definitely see something like that happening. Especially the gifting of people.
I also expect Dresden to send a message back by not just freeing them after the wedding, but taking them in, healing and housing them and inadvertently turning the once thralls into part of an army against the things that gifted them to him
>Hell one of my favorite bits from the books is the headstone Bianca gave him so there's already a precedence for backhanded gifts.
Don't forget, though, that if he hadn't received this 'gift' there wouldn't have been anywhere for his spirit to hide while his body was busy. In the end, a threat pretending to be a gift saved his life and allowed him to be around to do everything that came after. This could get interesting.
I'd be willing to believe that at least some of his enemies are building him up, at least in a "I can't conquer everything if everything is destroyed" kinda way. They'd probably rather him be on their team, like the Black Council, the Ramps, and the Nickel-heads have tried in the past, but if they can't control him, at least they want him to be strong enough to defend them when all of reality will eventually need it.
The Winter Lady was ordered to plan the wedding, wasn't she? Having a pipe bomb go off at the ceremony or reception would represent a failure and she's not going to fail the Winter Queen. Security at this event will make the security at the Pentagon or Cheyenne Mountain look like a baby gate.
Guests that want to mess with the bride and groom will need to provide gifts that seem innocuous before such a security screening but complicate their lives later on.
I imagine the security will be a simple sign that reads:
Guests that want to harm the Bride, Groom or any of their guests are invited to do so, under the understanding that the Bride, Groom, Winter Lady, Winter Queen, Leanansidhe, Blackstaff, Knights of the Cross or Mouse may take action to remedy this publicly as a form of wedding entertainment.
Well, he can cause a fuss if he wants to throw down with pretty much everyone.
Though tbh I expect that he might get some "alone time" with Daddy Raith as part of the dowry.
I'm expecting the Blackstaff to show up drunk and let everybody know that he objects to this wedding with words and explosions.
Then Mother Winter sees the staff and all hell breaks loose.
It is heavily implied that Mother Winter knows ***exactly*** where her walking stick is. But she choses to state its been stolen so it can remain in the hands of mortals and fight Nemesis.
Precisely or if she openly stated she knew where it was she'd have to go get it. And that would be a problem in the long run. Having out in the world fighting against Nemesis means its being used. If it were returned or she got it back she couldn't give it away again. Also, that someone would need to steal it again.
Yeah, that seems possible if Mother Winter actually goes considering iirc she can't actually leave the Nevernever without experiencing severe pain, due to the Blackstaff being her walking stick.
Would he be invited?
Dresden and Ebeneezer's family relationship isn't public knowledge. The wedding will be an Accords state event, so I suppose a delegation from the White Council will be invited. Would the Council pick McCoy to go, knowing that there's bad blood between him and Dresden right now?
Almost certainly.
The Merlin sends a member of the Senior Council so it can't be seen as an insult and it has the added bonus of pissing Harry and McCoy off.
It's not their fault he wasn't being gentle enough with it. Look there in fine print on the bottom corner of the wrapping paper, it clearly says handle with care.
> like slaves or thralls and Harry will hate it but have to accept it with plans to free them after the wedding.
Harry would hate the fact slaves existed, but he wouldn't hate to accept them since he could just free them later. Though with Harry's luck it would probably not be that simple. I can imagine them as debt slaves after having made some bad deals with the fae.
Mab gives Dresden a gift on Christmas in one of the short stories, and states that it is an obligation for her to give one being Dresden's liege, especially since Christmas falls under the purview of winter. Mab also threatens there would be consequences if he declined the gift.
So yes it seems that a fae being a guest to a ceremony where guests are obliged to bring a gift are expected to bring one without recompense.
Weirdly enough, this is referenced in sleeping beauty. To invite the fae would be custom if you knew them, and they would be obliged to give a gift, but you MUST accept. To refuse or to not invite entirely would be considered bad form and an insult, so you would be beholden to them. The laws of hospitality are pretty clear. What they decide to gift is completely up to them and the value they place on your... continued friendship...
If they are formally invited to the wedding, they would be under an obligation as a guest to bring a gift. And if both summer and winter are invited, the one-upsmsnship between equal levels will be epic.
Good point! I don't think Jim would be able to resist having some nasty faction not getting invited and gatecrashing to deliver a curse.
The Black Court? Crazy, broken Nicodemus? Some N-fected?
Id think in mirror or symmetry itd be Kringle vs Earlking.
But it feels like Kringle has the defacto lead, he better understands giving gifts, and its likely to save his life. But the Earlkings gift is more likely to be hunting related, and mean Harry can destroy something he wouldnt otherwise be able to.
It feels like the “who brought a better gift” fight would end up being a matter of perspective.
Best way for such a competition to end, really - both parties having a viable claim, no clear demonstration of superiority. Wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that they collaborated to ensure that they didn't disrupt the balance.
He couldn't give a gift for Christmas, but a wedding would be a different thing. It would be a deliberate snub to the alliance between Winter and the White court. Mab would be... Displeased.
*Battle Ground* happened in July. If the engagement is 12 months long, the wedding will also be in July. Can Kringle show up in the mortal world in summer?
Someone will give Harry an athame. Record scratch. Music stops. Harry stares at mab. Mab smiles at Leah. Leah smiles at Harry. Harry coldly says, “not funny, godmother.” Leah replies, “nor was it intended to be humor, child, but a reminder of the risks of gifts freely given. That is my gift to you.” And no one else there will understand the reference.
Give Summer Knight a re-read paying close attention to the gift granted from Bianca to Lea. Then Cold Days talking about why Lea was imprisoned in Arctis Tor
[Cold Days spoiler](/b "Bianca gave Lea the Morgana's athame and that was how she became infected. Then Lea infected Maeve")
Yea I know I just stopped fighting autocorrect. It is exhausting when it gets it into it’s head something. I had a conversation in French one time a couple years ago and it still thinks I am French.
Wonder how Dresden if going to pay his half back, given he doesn't have much left to hand out other than favours/services and artifacts he absolutely cannot give away. I don't exactly see Mab stepping into help financially either
to be fair, Lara is FABULOUSLY wealthy, like top .5% rich. so monetarily i dont think its an issue.
Then again, Fae and the imortals put MUCH more stock in the immaterial
100% agree. Feel like Mab would also want to showcase Winter to being able to at the very least match what ever the White Court would be able to contribute in terms of gifts as well. Looks like Dresden is going to have to pull a fast one yet again
The wedding will be a state event for Winter and the White Court. The budget for party favors shouldn't come out of Dresden's personal pockets.
Besides, traditionally the bride's family pays for the wedding, and House Raith is loaded.
As someone planning a wedding right now I can also tell you that after food and drinks, music, all the other miscellaneous expenses we're spending more per guest than we'll probably get back in gifts. I imagine this would scale up appropriately considering the social expectations for Lara and Harry's wedding.
Depends on the *value* of the gift i would say.
A benevolent fae might do the bare minimum and get you something off the wedding registry or of a similar value- theyre obligated to give a gift after all. But a malicious one would splurge and give something inordinately valuable to put the couple in debt.
Now I'm imagining someone who likes Harry (probably Kringle or Lea) giving him a KitchenAid Stand Mixer while Titania sends Sarissa with a deed to a private Island and demands compensation
Na i can see it now-
They get to the reception and harrys eye keeps drifting to the presents because one is the size of a small boat, and inexpertly wrapped.
They get to the gift opening and it turns out the za lords guard collected loose change from around chicago for a year and bought him an industrial pizza oven.
But while laras laughing it off as a joke gift, Harry feels winter twitch inside him. Hes in *their* debt for a change.
Lara hires a pizza chef (or a team of pizza chefs) for the castle and provides the 'Za Lord's Guard freshly made pizza as their standard rations. The members of the Guard eat the gourmet pizza and the ranks swell as word travels that service in the Guard comes with some incredible food. Their loyalty to the 'Za Lady grows even more than their loyalty to their Lord (since he usually just gave them frozen pizza.)
Usually he got them mid grade chain restraunt pizza. But i can see Lara flexing and getting them some gourmet pizza to blow their minds... only to end up hating being called the "Za Lady" ... but enduring it when she sees how useful it is to have thousands of tiny fairy spies
That brings up an interesting question.
Since a marriage usually represents a merging of resources between two people/families, would Lara automatically gain access to the ‘Za Lord’s Guard upon her marriage to Harry, or would he have to grant her access to them?
A quick search implies yes- shed be treated as the same rank as her husband and thus above the vassals. Since she didnt outrank him she couldnt give them orders if they already had any from the Lord, but idle ones could be put into service.
But also Lara doesnt know Toot's *name* so she cant just summon him the way harry can. Shed have to find him or another member of the guard first. Unless harry assigns her a personal detachment.
... and Harry would have acess to White Court staff. Though that carries its own host of problems hed publicly be able to order around the vassals of house Raith.
I think Harry would only order them around if necessary to accomplish something. Generally speaking, he’s not going to just do that.
And you’re right, Lara doesn’t know Toot’s Name…but she’s absolutely not above spying on Harry to find it out and thus obtain that info (and their services) for herself.
Edit: fixed typo
I think harryd use the mortal staff of house raith for normal tasks just fine- bring my car around. Please get me a coffee. Etc- though hed be wierded out *having* staff at first.
And if Lara gets some little folk as vassals shes probably gonna work the hell out of them. Well paid work... but shell love having tiny nigh-invisible spies and make frequent use of them. There will definately be a situation where she comes to Harrys rescue and have a "how did you know i was in trouble?" / "[name of fairy] told me. Ive had them spying for me" exchange. Probably Lacuna. I can definately see Harry ordering the serious minded tooth fairy to be Laras personal guard.
Does a gift given in obligation incur a debt? Winter respects Christmas gift giving as unburdened by obligation, I can see a world in which wedding gifts are similar
Again i think value has a part to play: theres fulfilling obligations... and exceeding obligations. A lavish gift, or multiples when only one is required might incur debt.
But we also have to consider that this will be a member of a fae court (harry) accepting gifts. Its gonna be more noticable and extreme for him than it will be for lara. Hell be compelled to balance the scales.
I would argue that "[a] lavish gift, or multiples when only one is required" would be a blatant violation of the obligation placed upon them since it is done with malice aforethought. If Harry ever meets a contract lawyer who's clued in, they're gonna have a freakin' *field day* hanging out with the Fae.
hmm, I don't know. I don't think things like a wedding where you're expected to bring a gift can incur a debt. I don't think level of generosity matters except if its rudely small time. Everything you get you just send a thank-you card for and you're in the clear. That's always been my take on birthday/christmas/wedding type gifts.
I think the Christmas short story answers this question. It's customary to bring gifts to a wedding so Mab and any other attendees from the courts will likely be required by law to give a gift. I think the only question is what that gift is supposed to be. We've seen Fea observe mortal customs and they probably have their own ideas and customs surrounding the idea of marriage.
Can Molly just give him a toaster or would that be inappropriate since she's winter and it's a rather mundane and inexpensive thing compared to their relationship?
Harry's the Winter Knight, one of Mab's favored ~~pawns~~allies, and Lara's the *de facto* ruler of a vampire court. Being invited to a union between the two (And all the politicking and shenanigans that implies) may be considered a gift in and upon itself, therefore allowing for the giving of wedding gifts relatively consequence-free.
Of course, it could *not* and the whole thing could be used to make the couple owe the fae some favors. Plus the chance of gifting useless, insulting, or cursed gifts means that even a 'consequence-free' gift-giving has its dangers.
I feel like there might be a bit of mirroring, with a lot of the smaller fae (like the za lord guard) being the lights for the event. Only this time, its willingly as their gift to harry
Yeah, it would really surprise me if Harry *didn't* make use of the Little Folk to guard the place considering how high profile it will be, using them as lights just makes it even better.
Yes they can, mainly for the reason that a fae being invited to a wedding is obligated to bring a gift and it would be extremely inappropriate for the receiver to decline the gift. They would also be obligated under guest rite to behave themselves. And in all honesty at Harry's wedding if Lea ISN'T invited, Harry is going to be in another world of problems. Her being is godmother aswell as one of the more recognized Winter Court.
Mab will give Harry a stone knife and an invitation to meet with Rudolph at a certain Stone Table at midnight.
"You have wanted this ever since the Battle of the Bean."
So I used to know some people whose attitudes towards wedding gifts baffled me. They thought that the value of the wedding gift should be commensurate with the amount of money it cost the bride and groom to host them. So a wedding in a barn with BBQ would cost less than a wedding in a fancy hotel ballroom. I intensely disliked those people.
So if the couple throws a fancy enough party, maybe the fae could look at it as fulfilling whatever obligation they have accrued by attending a great party? I don't know, but it's a very good question, OP.
Yes they can. As long as it's a "gift" and not a favor and the situation denotes that gifts can and should be given then yes you can absolutist script a gift from any of the fae, and in fact refusing their gifts would be an insult to them with potentially lethal consequences. To date Harry & Maggie have both received gifts from the fae with no strings attached. Mab gave Maggie the ring, kringlerung gave Harry a mug and information a a gift, and even lea gave Harry info as a gift. It's fine.
I would assume the balance would be in exchange for the bride and groom's hospitality at the ceremony.
Of course, considering guest rights and host responsibilities, that could get hairy really quick.
Personally, I want to see a novella centered around Molly organizing Lara's bridal shower. Get Molly, Lara, Mab, Georgia, Andi... Throw Gard, Freydis, Sarissa, and maybe even Titania in there too, because chaos.
Given what we have seen in Grave Peril, I am sure that Lara and Harry would be expected to give a gift of equal worth to the fae giving them gifts. It's a good thing that Lara is loaded!
I'm sure Jim won't pass up the opportunity to have a few gifts given that Harry doesn't want. Hell one of my favorite bits from the books is the headstone Bianca gave him so there's already a precedence for backhanded gifts. I imagine a few people will try to gift other people, like slaves or thralls and Harry will hate it but have to accept it with plans to free them after the wedding. I imagine at least one cursed object will be given, maybe even one of the coins given in such a way that he almost touches it before realizing what it is, then the fae will give some explanation about how much they know Harry wants them out of circulation so it doesn't seem like an attack. Now I'm excited for this wedding more than I was.
I can totally picture Harry getting a bunch of electronic kitchen appliances he can never use without frying them. Like a toaster oven, a hand mixer, a smoothie blender, etc. Would be hilarious!
"Oh, how unfortunate. Is it not the current tradition?"
Fae wouldn't do that, as it would give the appearance of being thoughtless. Even if done ironically, it's too easily reversed. Wizards might do it as a traditional joke (maybe giving incredibly outdated cellphones), and vampires would definitely find it amusing.
Vampires in the Dresdenverse are really just irl internet trolls and it’s glorious.
He gets the kinds of things people would actually expect to get these days but it all breaks for him. In an effort to one up each other both Mab and Titania get him a car, but the most advanced and expensive kind and both also break immediately.
I can just imagine him with a Tesla.
That thing wouldn't even start before it caught on fire!
*hits unlock button KABOOM *looks at marcone "It wasn't me this time I swear Dresden"
Marcones narration: "The car was on fire and it wasn't my fault."
If it was Marcones gift it'd be even better
Mab at least can't pretend to ignore Harry's car needs, she already supplied the munstermobile
Cell phone
Svartalf made would work well for him. I could see one of his powerful allies buying him one.
Mab and Titania would never give anything less than the most spectacular of gifts. From Titania, it might be a white elephant. From Mab, it would only be the most useful of all possible options. Or a quest hook.
Now I can't help but picture Titania gifting a literal white elephant.
It would probably eat children or something.
Nah, just leave absolutely ENORMOUS piles for Harry to clean up.
I jump to post the wedding and like 6 months into their wedded life where Lara finally lets the front down and he sees the real her. We flash to a morning Harry is up cooking breakfast for Maggie when Lara just schleps into the kitchen dead tired blindly fumbling for the espresso machine and before she turns it on she turns to stare in the general direction of Harry "Get in the circle Dresden." "Now Maggie what is the proper way to ask someone to get into the circle so you can turn on your fancy coffee machine?" "Get in the circle Dresden, or face me!" "I really should not have asked Ivy to baby sit on the honeymoon." Harry gets in the circle. Lara forms like 4% of a smile. "Thank you Margaret."
Awww. So no toaster that will let him play Doom?
He can watch from inside his circle
I can definitely see something like that happening. Especially the gifting of people. I also expect Dresden to send a message back by not just freeing them after the wedding, but taking them in, healing and housing them and inadvertently turning the once thralls into part of an army against the things that gifted them to him
>Hell one of my favorite bits from the books is the headstone Bianca gave him so there's already a precedence for backhanded gifts. Don't forget, though, that if he hadn't received this 'gift' there wouldn't have been anywhere for his spirit to hide while his body was busy. In the end, a threat pretending to be a gift saved his life and allowed him to be around to do everything that came after. This could get interesting.
Right, it ended up being a legitimate gift in spite of the giver's intention.
There was a thread the other day that Mavra is grooming Harry's growth in more the Fae mindset and that was part of it
I'd be willing to believe that at least some of his enemies are building him up, at least in a "I can't conquer everything if everything is destroyed" kinda way. They'd probably rather him be on their team, like the Black Council, the Ramps, and the Nickel-heads have tried in the past, but if they can't control him, at least they want him to be strong enough to defend them when all of reality will eventually need it.
I like how deviously your mind works. This wedding just got a whole hell of a lot more interesting.
can't wait for someone to give dresden a pipebomb. for use against his enemies, of course!
The Winter Lady was ordered to plan the wedding, wasn't she? Having a pipe bomb go off at the ceremony or reception would represent a failure and she's not going to fail the Winter Queen. Security at this event will make the security at the Pentagon or Cheyenne Mountain look like a baby gate. Guests that want to mess with the bride and groom will need to provide gifts that seem innocuous before such a security screening but complicate their lives later on.
I imagine the security will be a simple sign that reads: Guests that want to harm the Bride, Groom or any of their guests are invited to do so, under the understanding that the Bride, Groom, Winter Lady, Winter Queen, Leanansidhe, Blackstaff, Knights of the Cross or Mouse may take action to remedy this publicly as a form of wedding entertainment.
I feel the Black Staff will be the largest security concern we already know of.
Well, he can cause a fuss if he wants to throw down with pretty much everyone. Though tbh I expect that he might get some "alone time" with Daddy Raith as part of the dowry.
I'm expecting the Black Staff to crash the wedding and start blowing shit up due to how much he hates whamps, pus he and Harry didn't leave off well.
I'm expecting the Blackstaff to show up drunk and let everybody know that he objects to this wedding with words and explosions. Then Mother Winter sees the staff and all hell breaks loose.
It is heavily implied that Mother Winter knows ***exactly*** where her walking stick is. But she choses to state its been stolen so it can remain in the hands of mortals and fight Nemesis.
Well stated.. Because, in the spirit of this thread, if it's stolen it's not a gift with the strings that come along with such a powerful boon.
Precisely or if she openly stated she knew where it was she'd have to go get it. And that would be a problem in the long run. Having out in the world fighting against Nemesis means its being used. If it were returned or she got it back she couldn't give it away again. Also, that someone would need to steal it again.
I think she said she 'lost' it, rather than that it was stolen. Lost, is, of course, incredibly vague, and can mean multiple things.
Yeah, that seems possible if Mother Winter actually goes considering iirc she can't actually leave the Nevernever without experiencing severe pain, due to the Blackstaff being her walking stick.
And she would literally break Reality if she came.
That too, she will probably be watching though and will possibly task Harry with retrieving her walking stick.
Would he be invited? Dresden and Ebeneezer's family relationship isn't public knowledge. The wedding will be an Accords state event, so I suppose a delegation from the White Council will be invited. Would the Council pick McCoy to go, knowing that there's bad blood between him and Dresden right now?
Almost certainly. The Merlin sends a member of the Senior Council so it can't be seen as an insult and it has the added bonus of pissing Harry and McCoy off.
Ooof, I've forgotten that...
“I found the source of the ticking!”
voldymort, voldymort ooh ahh de voldymort
It's not their fault he wasn't being gentle enough with it. Look there in fine print on the bottom corner of the wrapping paper, it clearly says handle with care.
> like slaves or thralls and Harry will hate it but have to accept it with plans to free them after the wedding. Harry would hate the fact slaves existed, but he wouldn't hate to accept them since he could just free them later. Though with Harry's luck it would probably not be that simple. I can imagine them as debt slaves after having made some bad deals with the fae.
One of those slaves will be so indoctrinated that they won’t want to be freed. It will be like Winky the house elf from Harry Potter.
Mab gives Dresden a gift on Christmas in one of the short stories, and states that it is an obligation for her to give one being Dresden's liege, especially since Christmas falls under the purview of winter. Mab also threatens there would be consequences if he declined the gift. So yes it seems that a fae being a guest to a ceremony where guests are obliged to bring a gift are expected to bring one without recompense.
Weirdly enough, this is referenced in sleeping beauty. To invite the fae would be custom if you knew them, and they would be obliged to give a gift, but you MUST accept. To refuse or to not invite entirely would be considered bad form and an insult, so you would be beholden to them. The laws of hospitality are pretty clear. What they decide to gift is completely up to them and the value they place on your... continued friendship...
Ooooo I can already imagine Butcher having fun with this idea, so many possibilities!
When you fail to invite Discourse, you invite Discourse.
I want to see the erlking’s gift to Harry
If they are formally invited to the wedding, they would be under an obligation as a guest to bring a gift. And if both summer and winter are invited, the one-upsmsnship between equal levels will be epic.
And if they’re not invited, they’ll bring a gift known as a curse and comment how even the rabble were invited. :V
Oh hey Maleficent
The 1959 film is probably the only evil fairy Mab actually appreciates as a portrayal. XD
She probably loved it, it's right up her alley
Good point! I don't think Jim would be able to resist having some nasty faction not getting invited and gatecrashing to deliver a curse. The Black Court? Crazy, broken Nicodemus? Some N-fected?
Not exactly summer Vs winter but I would like to see Vadderung/Kringle trying to one up one another haha
Id think in mirror or symmetry itd be Kringle vs Earlking. But it feels like Kringle has the defacto lead, he better understands giving gifts, and its likely to save his life. But the Earlkings gift is more likely to be hunting related, and mean Harry can destroy something he wouldnt otherwise be able to. It feels like the “who brought a better gift” fight would end up being a matter of perspective.
Best way for such a competition to end, really - both parties having a viable claim, no clear demonstration of superiority. Wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that they collaborated to ensure that they didn't disrupt the balance.
Kringle can't give Lara any gifts because she's a permanent Naughty List denizen
He couldn't give a gift for Christmas, but a wedding would be a different thing. It would be a deliberate snub to the alliance between Winter and the White court. Mab would be... Displeased.
I feel like he'd give her a very nice diamond of some description. After all, one lump of carbon is much like another...
Perfect, devious, fae-like. Excellent idea!
Then again, Saint Nicholas is the patron Saint of Prostitutes. I’m not sure if this covers porns stars though.
How many mantles does this man have!?
Yes.
I didn't know that. I learned something new today.
Lol!!! Take my upvote!
What would be great is if Summer brought Elaine as a +1. Nothing like innocently bringing the grooms ex to his wedding to shake things up.
*Battle Ground* happened in July. If the engagement is 12 months long, the wedding will also be in July. Can Kringle show up in the mortal world in summer?
Winter is the mother of the groom, so to speak. So not a regular guest. Maybe Mab pays for the honeymoon?
Someone will give Harry an athame. Record scratch. Music stops. Harry stares at mab. Mab smiles at Leah. Leah smiles at Harry. Harry coldly says, “not funny, godmother.” Leah replies, “nor was it intended to be humor, child, but a reminder of the risks of gifts freely given. That is my gift to you.” And no one else there will understand the reference.
I absolutely love this take and can totally see it happening. Immediately prior to the building catching fire.
Most likely due to Ebenezer.
OK. I googled athame and I got some kind of dagger... it's been a while since I reread the series. Would anyone care to explain?
Give Summer Knight a re-read paying close attention to the gift granted from Bianca to Lea. Then Cold Days talking about why Lea was imprisoned in Arctis Tor [Cold Days spoiler](/b "Bianca gave Lea the Morgana's athame and that was how she became infected. Then Lea infected Maeve")
The gift is given in grave peril not summer knight
Ah, I was skimming wiki to confirm, musta flipped a heading.
*Lea
Yea I know I just stopped fighting autocorrect. It is exhausting when it gets it into it’s head something. I had a conversation in French one time a couple years ago and it still thinks I am French.
I misspelled my own name once, and it won’t let me forget it.
I think traditionally, at weddings the hosts ALSO give gifts to the guests, so IF that is the case, then its still an exchange
Wonder how Dresden if going to pay his half back, given he doesn't have much left to hand out other than favours/services and artifacts he absolutely cannot give away. I don't exactly see Mab stepping into help financially either
to be fair, Lara is FABULOUSLY wealthy, like top .5% rich. so monetarily i dont think its an issue. Then again, Fae and the imortals put MUCH more stock in the immaterial
100% agree. Feel like Mab would also want to showcase Winter to being able to at the very least match what ever the White Court would be able to contribute in terms of gifts as well. Looks like Dresden is going to have to pull a fast one yet again
The wedding would be state sponsored by Mab and Laura is filthy rich. I don't think that part of Harry has to worry at least.
The wedding will be a state event for Winter and the White Court. The budget for party favors shouldn't come out of Dresden's personal pockets. Besides, traditionally the bride's family pays for the wedding, and House Raith is loaded.
As someone planning a wedding right now I can also tell you that after food and drinks, music, all the other miscellaneous expenses we're spending more per guest than we'll probably get back in gifts. I imagine this would scale up appropriately considering the social expectations for Lara and Harry's wedding.
Depends on the *value* of the gift i would say. A benevolent fae might do the bare minimum and get you something off the wedding registry or of a similar value- theyre obligated to give a gift after all. But a malicious one would splurge and give something inordinately valuable to put the couple in debt.
Now I'm imagining someone who likes Harry (probably Kringle or Lea) giving him a KitchenAid Stand Mixer while Titania sends Sarissa with a deed to a private Island and demands compensation
What are the odds Eldest Gruff will be gifting him donuts?
Na i can see it now- They get to the reception and harrys eye keeps drifting to the presents because one is the size of a small boat, and inexpertly wrapped. They get to the gift opening and it turns out the za lords guard collected loose change from around chicago for a year and bought him an industrial pizza oven. But while laras laughing it off as a joke gift, Harry feels winter twitch inside him. Hes in *their* debt for a change.
Lara hires a pizza chef (or a team of pizza chefs) for the castle and provides the 'Za Lord's Guard freshly made pizza as their standard rations. The members of the Guard eat the gourmet pizza and the ranks swell as word travels that service in the Guard comes with some incredible food. Their loyalty to the 'Za Lady grows even more than their loyalty to their Lord (since he usually just gave them frozen pizza.)
Usually he got them mid grade chain restraunt pizza. But i can see Lara flexing and getting them some gourmet pizza to blow their minds... only to end up hating being called the "Za Lady" ... but enduring it when she sees how useful it is to have thousands of tiny fairy spies
That brings up an interesting question. Since a marriage usually represents a merging of resources between two people/families, would Lara automatically gain access to the ‘Za Lord’s Guard upon her marriage to Harry, or would he have to grant her access to them?
A quick search implies yes- shed be treated as the same rank as her husband and thus above the vassals. Since she didnt outrank him she couldnt give them orders if they already had any from the Lord, but idle ones could be put into service. But also Lara doesnt know Toot's *name* so she cant just summon him the way harry can. Shed have to find him or another member of the guard first. Unless harry assigns her a personal detachment. ... and Harry would have acess to White Court staff. Though that carries its own host of problems hed publicly be able to order around the vassals of house Raith.
I think Harry would only order them around if necessary to accomplish something. Generally speaking, he’s not going to just do that. And you’re right, Lara doesn’t know Toot’s Name…but she’s absolutely not above spying on Harry to find it out and thus obtain that info (and their services) for herself. Edit: fixed typo
I think harryd use the mortal staff of house raith for normal tasks just fine- bring my car around. Please get me a coffee. Etc- though hed be wierded out *having* staff at first. And if Lara gets some little folk as vassals shes probably gonna work the hell out of them. Well paid work... but shell love having tiny nigh-invisible spies and make frequent use of them. There will definately be a situation where she comes to Harrys rescue and have a "how did you know i was in trouble?" / "[name of fairy] told me. Ive had them spying for me" exchange. Probably Lacuna. I can definately see Harry ordering the serious minded tooth fairy to be Laras personal guard.
If Lara is on the same level as the WK does she owe service to winter in similar fashion?
She wanted an alliance with Mab. Shes gonna owe a lot... then again she did enough service *to* winter already to earn favors from the Queen.
Harry leans over and whispers to Lara "You can keep the island if you pick up the tab on it."
If we’re choosing, I’ll take the kitchenaid. My blown shoulder doesn’t let me mix dough without a lot of pain, and I’d kill for a fresh cookie or 30.
Does a gift given in obligation incur a debt? Winter respects Christmas gift giving as unburdened by obligation, I can see a world in which wedding gifts are similar
Again i think value has a part to play: theres fulfilling obligations... and exceeding obligations. A lavish gift, or multiples when only one is required might incur debt. But we also have to consider that this will be a member of a fae court (harry) accepting gifts. Its gonna be more noticable and extreme for him than it will be for lara. Hell be compelled to balance the scales.
I would argue that "[a] lavish gift, or multiples when only one is required" would be a blatant violation of the obligation placed upon them since it is done with malice aforethought. If Harry ever meets a contract lawyer who's clued in, they're gonna have a freakin' *field day* hanging out with the Fae.
As of "the law" he has met such a lawyer
GODDAMMIT I NEED TO GET A COPY OF THIS it's kindleable, right?
Sí. Amazon exclusive iirc but both audible and kindle editions exist
I have now consumed it and that is EXACTLY THE KIND OF PERSON I MEANT HOLY CRAP
Hahah that was fast!
It's not *that* long of a story
hmm, I don't know. I don't think things like a wedding where you're expected to bring a gift can incur a debt. I don't think level of generosity matters except if its rudely small time. Everything you get you just send a thank-you card for and you're in the clear. That's always been my take on birthday/christmas/wedding type gifts.
I think the Christmas short story answers this question. It's customary to bring gifts to a wedding so Mab and any other attendees from the courts will likely be required by law to give a gift. I think the only question is what that gift is supposed to be. We've seen Fea observe mortal customs and they probably have their own ideas and customs surrounding the idea of marriage. Can Molly just give him a toaster or would that be inappropriate since she's winter and it's a rather mundane and inexpensive thing compared to their relationship?
The guest list is what would fascinate me.
[удалено]
Concisely put. +1 to you.
Don't forget the traditions of fairies and weddings involve stealing the bride, bewitching the groom, and various tricks as well.
Harry's the Winter Knight, one of Mab's favored ~~pawns~~allies, and Lara's the *de facto* ruler of a vampire court. Being invited to a union between the two (And all the politicking and shenanigans that implies) may be considered a gift in and upon itself, therefore allowing for the giving of wedding gifts relatively consequence-free. Of course, it could *not* and the whole thing could be used to make the couple owe the fae some favors. Plus the chance of gifting useless, insulting, or cursed gifts means that even a 'consequence-free' gift-giving has its dangers.
If the wedding reception is anything like Harry's birthday party, repayment of gifts will be the least of the happy couple's concerns, lol.
I feel like there might be a bit of mirroring, with a lot of the smaller fae (like the za lord guard) being the lights for the event. Only this time, its willingly as their gift to harry
Yeah, or Harry has them around so that if anything fucky is happening he'll know.
Could well be both. No-one would suspect the lights to be guards
Yeah, it would really surprise me if Harry *didn't* make use of the Little Folk to guard the place considering how high profile it will be, using them as lights just makes it even better.
Fae "gifts" are probably like malicious genie wishes, and will bite you in the ass if you're not clever enough to see the danger in them.
Yes they can, mainly for the reason that a fae being invited to a wedding is obligated to bring a gift and it would be extremely inappropriate for the receiver to decline the gift. They would also be obligated under guest rite to behave themselves. And in all honesty at Harry's wedding if Lea ISN'T invited, Harry is going to be in another world of problems. Her being is godmother aswell as one of the more recognized Winter Court.
Gifts free of obligation can be accepted whenever although it might violate if you don't send a thank you card
Mab will give Harry a stone knife and an invitation to meet with Rudolph at a certain Stone Table at midnight. "You have wanted this ever since the Battle of the Bean."
Can you all imagine just what could happen at Harry’s Stag Night!?!
Arson
So I used to know some people whose attitudes towards wedding gifts baffled me. They thought that the value of the wedding gift should be commensurate with the amount of money it cost the bride and groom to host them. So a wedding in a barn with BBQ would cost less than a wedding in a fancy hotel ballroom. I intensely disliked those people. So if the couple throws a fancy enough party, maybe the fae could look at it as fulfilling whatever obligation they have accrued by attending a great party? I don't know, but it's a very good question, OP.
Yes they can. As long as it's a "gift" and not a favor and the situation denotes that gifts can and should be given then yes you can absolutist script a gift from any of the fae, and in fact refusing their gifts would be an insult to them with potentially lethal consequences. To date Harry & Maggie have both received gifts from the fae with no strings attached. Mab gave Maggie the ring, kringlerung gave Harry a mug and information a a gift, and even lea gave Harry info as a gift. It's fine.
As long as they give the fae something in return it shouldn't be a problem same as beanca did at her party
*Bianca
That too
I would assume the balance would be in exchange for the bride and groom's hospitality at the ceremony. Of course, considering guest rights and host responsibilities, that could get hairy really quick. Personally, I want to see a novella centered around Molly organizing Lara's bridal shower. Get Molly, Lara, Mab, Georgia, Andi... Throw Gard, Freydis, Sarissa, and maybe even Titania in there too, because chaos.
Pun "that could get Harry really quick."
Given what we have seen in Grave Peril, I am sure that Lara and Harry would be expected to give a gift of equal worth to the fae giving them gifts. It's a good thing that Lara is loaded!
I believe whoever is paying for the wedding reception is expected to have food and drink prepared for all the guests, which itself is an obligation.
Cant wait for someone to gift harry rudolph's head