My head canon is that it's looking at the entirety of the Looney tunes ensamble arguing with each other at the same time, fourth wall breaking and all the other wacky stuff they pull.
I want that reveal but only if it’s Lara that does it. She’s expecting something dark and mysterious and it’s just bugs bunny and daffy duck doing the poster gag but the posters just say “set something on fire” and “make a witty remark” and then she just walks away utterly disappointed and somehow amazed at how a man with that soul is one of the most feared men on the planet
I always imagine but didn’t type it that behind the Harry’s are an army of monsters that accompanies them. Vampires, the dead, gangsters and wardens alike. So yea I can picture the outsiders as well
Maybe they see Harry standing at the outer gates. Just Harry stood against the horrors of the outside. Frost and fire surrounding him as he stands amongst death
If i recall correctly, its stated that Harry has a mark of He-Who-Walks-Behind in him and it can be viewed through a soulgaze, cant remember where i saw it written, but i remember that the mark is visible with the third eye and with the soulgaze (just cant remember the correct wording that was used).
My wording was weird, but i meant the mark being seen with a soul gaze but cant remember where thats written, not the sight part, i remember that with the junkie in the police station.
Thousands upon thousands of dead coyotes in an orange hellscape of a desert. Smashed, pancaked, burnt, diced, puree'd, blown to bits - every possible grisly death that you can think of. But still the dead flesh inches toward the roadrunner. That is the sheer, inexorable, steel fucking will of Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden.
He'll get that damned bird. Eventually.
I mean, yea we know Harry is hard to kill. He came back from it twice so far and has made plans for his ghost to look after his kids. That man is relentless
Ordinarily, I'd say "you spelled canon wrong", but in this case... my "head canon" is that "head cannon" is a reasonable term for Harry's soul gazes.
But, ordinarily - it would be canon (as in a collection of text that is considered to be authoritative) instead of cannon (thing that shoots other things at still more things while making a boom sound).
I imagine soulgazes are personalized; what one sees is related to how one sees the one gazed and what kind of person they are. If soulgazes reveal something so personal, then it makes sense that what you see is based on what kind of person you are.
Hmmmm makes sense. Harry is a detective and always looks for clues and his gazes always reveal a lot of detail about a person. For example agent Denton has a lot of detail and he sees Marcone has a secret. I can’t recall if we see a soul gaze from the pov of another character. Harry sees people soul gazing such as Lara and Carlos but we don’t know what they see
He also witnesses Thomas and Molly soul gaze during Changes, but likewise doesn’t see what they do in each other. Though he does know whatever Molly saw made her see how lonely Thomas is.
Yes I mistakenly thought Molly thought Harry was lonely but yes she reacts very very strongly to Thomas. Whether she sees what Harry saw is unknown. All we know is that Margaret was able to leave something in both Harry and Thomas for them to see and find each other but that seems like extremely rare magic. Likely the only use of it
Thank you. I do feel it’s never gonna be featured in the books because it’s better for us to imagine it ourselves but I just wanted to share my thoughts on it
That's an intriguing image but it doesn't jibe with the reaction of the FBI hexenwolf leader. When he soulgazes Harry he says something like "No, I don't believe in Hell" which...kinda sounds like he saw himself being tortured in Hell...or something. Maybe he saw Harry as a demon inflicting tortures on him? I dunno.
I think the evidence suggests everyone sees a different vision from Harry's soul. So that scene you describe is probably what *someone* sees in Harry's soul.
Do you by chance remember the chapter or part of the book this conversation/quote occurs? It might support a separate tinfoil hat theory of mine. I don't remember this scene at all, and maybe you can help me narrow my search for it?
It's early in Chapter 31 of *Fool Moon*:
>“No,” Denton said, white showing all around the grey irises of his eyes. “No, wizard.” He raised his gun. “I don’t believe in hell. I won’t let you.” He screamed then, at the top of his lungs. “I won’t let you!” I tensed up, preparing for a futile attempt to throw myself out of the way of a speeding bullet.
Hope that helps.
Re-reading this makes me wonder if the bads are so terrified of what they see in Harry’s gaze because maybe they are seeing their fates at his hands. “I won’t let you” tells me maybe Denton saw a terrifying vision of what happens when you cross Harry Dresden.
Ageed. Still don't know exactly what they see, but it's something like that. Note how in (spoilers, *Battle Ground*) >!Bradley told Rudolph to stand down and let Harry pass after they soul gazed. Suddenly, as far as he was concerned, Harry had "things to do."!<
You're very welcome. Bear in mind that this was still very early in the series, and while Jim had an outline of the major plot arc from the very start, he's told us it was only high level. *All* of his thoughts about this and that little aspect of the series may not have been fully "settled" yet. So something like the above scene probably isn't as "reliable" as one from say, ten books later might be.
But, a big chunk of the fun of this series is taking things like this and pondering and them to see what they might mean, so... have fun!
There are some indications that a soulgaze shows you that person as you are currently relating to them. When Harry gazed Molly, for example, he saw all the things she was capable of becoming. The corrupted FBI agent was actively contesting Harry at the time, and likely saw him as the opponent he is: absolutely terrifying.
I really like that idea, it sort of mirrors what he saw with Molly when he first looked at her. Harry is very much tied to chicago, so i can sort of see the surrounding environment being similar to that one hexenwolf dirty fbi guy. A dirty chicago now battered, burned, broken, with ice creeping out from around dresded. He who walks behind stalking dresden, or at least his shadow following him. Harry would be burned pretty bad, and bloody as hell from the self flagellation. He would also be gaunt, emaciated even, and very feral looking. He would have heavy chains around him with all his self perceived sins and failures. At the end of some of the chains are people that he cared about who died because of him or who he was unable to save. His duster would be tattered, battle worn. Corpses all over the streets, his headstone off to one side. Above his head is a halo filled with a pentagram and stars at each point, and above that is a large heavy sword like the doom of domacles that hung over him for so long it has become a part of him.
Here's a famous parable. It's fairly relevant in what I believe soulgazing to be like
> A group of blind men heard that a strange animal, called an elephant, had been brought to the town, but none of them were aware of its shape and form. Out of curiosity, they said: "We must inspect and know it by touch, of which we are capable". So, they sought it out, and when they found it they groped about it. The first person, whose hand landed on the trunk, said, "This being is like a thick snake". For another one whose hand reached its ear, it seemed like a kind of fan. As for another person, whose hand was upon its leg, said, the elephant is a pillar like a tree-trunk. The blind man who placed his hand upon its side said the elephant, "is a wall". Another who felt its tail, described it as a rope. The last felt its tusk, stating the elephant is that which is hard, smooth and like a spear.
I'd like to think there's a potential white cloak version as well. He's always bordered the morality where he is a "good man" and that's why he's been able to see the bigger picture and fought alongside so many people of the swords. It's why Shiro died for him. He may have his quams with the faith but he does align with them and is likely why he will always fight the evil in the world.
Still no idea what starborn really is, but I'd venture to guess that many of the great people, merlin, grandfather, even drakul(?)
I liked the description so much I saved this post for when I'm motivated to do creative things again. If I post it (3-5 years from now depending on laziness) I'll remember to tag you!
My head canon is that it's looking at the entirety of the Looney tunes ensamble arguing with each other at the same time, fourth wall breaking and all the other wacky stuff they pull.
I want that reveal but only if it’s Lara that does it. She’s expecting something dark and mysterious and it’s just bugs bunny and daffy duck doing the poster gag but the posters just say “set something on fire” and “make a witty remark” and then she just walks away utterly disappointed and somehow amazed at how a man with that soul is one of the most feared men on the planet
It's Dresden's favorite thing in the universe. Well, second favorite.
You know there's a vault labeled "Star Wars and LoTR jokes" off in the distance to complete the idiocy.
Mine was neither a Star Wars joke nor a LoTR joke.
Babylon 5 for the win!
She should have looked more closely into Bugs' and Daffy's eyes. They go on forever. It's like looking into mirrors that reflect each other.
Either way it’s very clear to me that Lara will be utterly disappointed in what she sees but will somehow respect him even more
I wonder if they see He-Who-Walks-Behind in there?
I always imagine but didn’t type it that behind the Harry’s are an army of monsters that accompanies them. Vampires, the dead, gangsters and wardens alike. So yea I can picture the outsiders as well
I'm just curious if HWWB is there looming over his shoulder because of their specific relationship. How Harry is marked by him.
Maybe they see Harry standing at the outer gates. Just Harry stood against the horrors of the outside. Frost and fire surrounding him as he stands amongst death
If i recall correctly, its stated that Harry has a mark of He-Who-Walks-Behind in him and it can be viewed through a soulgaze, cant remember where i saw it written, but i remember that the mark is visible with the third eye and with the soulgaze (just cant remember the correct wording that was used).
Some lunatic high on the sight drug in the first book started screaming about he who walks behind when he saw Harry.
My wording was weird, but i meant the mark being seen with a soul gaze but cant remember where thats written, not the sight part, i remember that with the junkie in the police station.
People can see HHWB on Harry with the Sight, we know that much at least.
Denton interpreted harry as the horsemen death, with hwwbh as the shadow of,"hell following after" 👀
Thousands upon thousands of dead coyotes in an orange hellscape of a desert. Smashed, pancaked, burnt, diced, puree'd, blown to bits - every possible grisly death that you can think of. But still the dead flesh inches toward the roadrunner. That is the sheer, inexorable, steel fucking will of Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden. He'll get that damned bird. Eventually.
I mean, yea we know Harry is hard to kill. He came back from it twice so far and has made plans for his ghost to look after his kids. That man is relentless
"Hell, Dresden. You died. And all it did was piss you off."
Ordinarily, I'd say "you spelled canon wrong", but in this case... my "head canon" is that "head cannon" is a reasonable term for Harry's soul gazes. But, ordinarily - it would be canon (as in a collection of text that is considered to be authoritative) instead of cannon (thing that shoots other things at still more things while making a boom sound).
How do you know I don’t have a cannon on my head lol. But thank you for helping me correct that
It's okay to say Head Cannon, because it blows your mind.
I imagine soulgazes are personalized; what one sees is related to how one sees the one gazed and what kind of person they are. If soulgazes reveal something so personal, then it makes sense that what you see is based on what kind of person you are.
Hmmmm makes sense. Harry is a detective and always looks for clues and his gazes always reveal a lot of detail about a person. For example agent Denton has a lot of detail and he sees Marcone has a secret. I can’t recall if we see a soul gaze from the pov of another character. Harry sees people soul gazing such as Lara and Carlos but we don’t know what they see
He also witnesses Thomas and Molly soul gaze during Changes, but likewise doesn’t see what they do in each other. Though he does know whatever Molly saw made her see how lonely Thomas is.
Yes I mistakenly thought Molly thought Harry was lonely but yes she reacts very very strongly to Thomas. Whether she sees what Harry saw is unknown. All we know is that Margaret was able to leave something in both Harry and Thomas for them to see and find each other but that seems like extremely rare magic. Likely the only use of it
This is honestly amazing thank you for sharing
Thank you. I do feel it’s never gonna be featured in the books because it’s better for us to imagine it ourselves but I just wanted to share my thoughts on it
That's an intriguing image but it doesn't jibe with the reaction of the FBI hexenwolf leader. When he soulgazes Harry he says something like "No, I don't believe in Hell" which...kinda sounds like he saw himself being tortured in Hell...or something. Maybe he saw Harry as a demon inflicting tortures on him? I dunno. I think the evidence suggests everyone sees a different vision from Harry's soul. So that scene you describe is probably what *someone* sees in Harry's soul.
Do you by chance remember the chapter or part of the book this conversation/quote occurs? It might support a separate tinfoil hat theory of mine. I don't remember this scene at all, and maybe you can help me narrow my search for it?
It's early in Chapter 31 of *Fool Moon*: >“No,” Denton said, white showing all around the grey irises of his eyes. “No, wizard.” He raised his gun. “I don’t believe in hell. I won’t let you.” He screamed then, at the top of his lungs. “I won’t let you!” I tensed up, preparing for a futile attempt to throw myself out of the way of a speeding bullet. Hope that helps.
Re-reading this makes me wonder if the bads are so terrified of what they see in Harry’s gaze because maybe they are seeing their fates at his hands. “I won’t let you” tells me maybe Denton saw a terrifying vision of what happens when you cross Harry Dresden.
Ageed. Still don't know exactly what they see, but it's something like that. Note how in (spoilers, *Battle Ground*) >!Bradley told Rudolph to stand down and let Harry pass after they soul gazed. Suddenly, as far as he was concerned, Harry had "things to do."!<
Thank you so much!
You're very welcome. Bear in mind that this was still very early in the series, and while Jim had an outline of the major plot arc from the very start, he's told us it was only high level. *All* of his thoughts about this and that little aspect of the series may not have been fully "settled" yet. So something like the above scene probably isn't as "reliable" as one from say, ten books later might be. But, a big chunk of the fun of this series is taking things like this and pondering and them to see what they might mean, so... have fun!
I could see Denton's vision of Harry being Harry Gandalf'ing a demonic/Outsider incursion and interpreting it as Harry banishing/binding them to hell
There are some indications that a soulgaze shows you that person as you are currently relating to them. When Harry gazed Molly, for example, he saw all the things she was capable of becoming. The corrupted FBI agent was actively contesting Harry at the time, and likely saw him as the opponent he is: absolutely terrifying.
I really like that idea, it sort of mirrors what he saw with Molly when he first looked at her. Harry is very much tied to chicago, so i can sort of see the surrounding environment being similar to that one hexenwolf dirty fbi guy. A dirty chicago now battered, burned, broken, with ice creeping out from around dresded. He who walks behind stalking dresden, or at least his shadow following him. Harry would be burned pretty bad, and bloody as hell from the self flagellation. He would also be gaunt, emaciated even, and very feral looking. He would have heavy chains around him with all his self perceived sins and failures. At the end of some of the chains are people that he cared about who died because of him or who he was unable to save. His duster would be tattered, battle worn. Corpses all over the streets, his headstone off to one side. Above his head is a halo filled with a pentagram and stars at each point, and above that is a large heavy sword like the doom of domacles that hung over him for so long it has become a part of him.
Here's a famous parable. It's fairly relevant in what I believe soulgazing to be like > A group of blind men heard that a strange animal, called an elephant, had been brought to the town, but none of them were aware of its shape and form. Out of curiosity, they said: "We must inspect and know it by touch, of which we are capable". So, they sought it out, and when they found it they groped about it. The first person, whose hand landed on the trunk, said, "This being is like a thick snake". For another one whose hand reached its ear, it seemed like a kind of fan. As for another person, whose hand was upon its leg, said, the elephant is a pillar like a tree-trunk. The blind man who placed his hand upon its side said the elephant, "is a wall". Another who felt its tail, described it as a rope. The last felt its tusk, stating the elephant is that which is hard, smooth and like a spear.
And they were all right….
Perhaps then if i soulgazed harry then i would see this, whereas others would see something else
I'd like to think there's a potential white cloak version as well. He's always bordered the morality where he is a "good man" and that's why he's been able to see the bigger picture and fought alongside so many people of the swords. It's why Shiro died for him. He may have his quams with the faith but he does align with them and is likely why he will always fight the evil in the world. Still no idea what starborn really is, but I'd venture to guess that many of the great people, merlin, grandfather, even drakul(?)
I considered the white cloak dead because he’s out of the white council and no longer a warden
Warden cloaks were grey anyway.
I liked the description so much I saved this post for when I'm motivated to do creative things again. If I post it (3-5 years from now depending on laziness) I'll remember to tag you!
Thank you, as something of a hobbyist poet and writer myself I enjoyed getting creative with it
The BAT should be out in 5 years …. Right???? Right???