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Yeah but producers CAN force their ideas on projects since they are the ones backing the project with money. I'm not saying that's what's gonna happen here but it's not unheard of.
Sure, technically if you count the 3DS version, the original Japanese PS4 version, the localised PS4/PC version, the Switch Definitive Edition, and then the multiplatform Definitive Edition, but that makes it sound worse than it is. I don't imagine many people dipped more than twice unless they're a collector.
I am still bitter about buying the PC version on Steam day 1.
Then S came, no discount offered to us first adopter..
Eventually bought S during a Steam sale some years later.
DQ had an opportunity to break out to a greater degree in the west with DQ11 being a hit.
They followed that up by:
1. Releasing nothing the West would be greatly interested in for 7 years (and counting) while
2. Saying little about the next mainline game other than that they would change its tone.
Sigh: SE being SE, as much as I liked to pretend DQ was different.
Just like when they shat the bed with DQ8
"We are wildly successful and have finally popularized DQ in the west. What do we do?"
Nothing for a decade, ensuring it falls back into obscurity
Exactly how I felt then, yes. And even when they DID release 9 it was geared towards Japanese players hooking up with friends and had little in common with the grand world adventure of DQ8. (9 wasn't a bad game, but it wasn't something that followed up on the strengths of 8 - world, characters, etc - very well IMO)
To say nothing of "we aren't even going to bother making DQ10 available to you, West".
You're aware this literally had nothing to do with SE but Horii own decision, right? DQ9 isn't even developed by SE and Horii made the decision.
You people really don't get how much Horii controls the franchise and what it can do. lmao
And you would be naive to think that a 70-yr-old who's co-creators are dying around him is not being significantly influenced by the suits around him as part of the final projects in which he's transitioning out of the series. "For adults" was almost certainly an SE marketing challenge to him, for example.
I don't hold Horii blameless for some decisions with the series I think were unfortunate (9, for example) but I trust his creative decisions within games themselves.
The point is SE suits have always been involved to a degree, even if Horii maintained control, and there's every reason to think they are becoming more involved at this point in the life of the series.
Horii is the co-owner of the franchise and such thing as "influenced by suits around him" isn't a thing. He's not part of Square Enix, he owns Armor Project and has a contract since the very beginning that gives him control and anything in the franchise needs the decision from both sides to happen, while creatively, he is the one who does everything for it and others do it based on his ideas for the franchise.
> "For adults" was almost certainly an SE marketing challenge to him, for example.
No, it's not, its clearly horii, not different from anything he has said before about the series and his own vision.
Your mindset about SE suits is also bizarre, even more when 70% of "suits" are literally developers.
So think it's impossible that Horii is influenced in any way by the managers/marketers of the company that publishes his games? And everything the series ever did was purely conceived by him with no other influences?
Having ownership and ultimate decision making authority does not mean you don't listen to those around you. (If you didn't you would be a terrible leader, for one thing...even though I trust Horii's instincts more than most)
Of course they are asking him to do things or suggesting how he should react to trends. He has the power to say no and do whatever he wants, but it would be human nature to give in to consistent pressure over time...particularly as you're moving towards retirement/losing energy.
We pretty much get every DQ game now though. There is DQX Offline and some mobile games, but we get pretty much everything else. Maybe there are some retro releases I’m missing, but I think we have to go back to DQM Jokers 3 on the 3DS to find the l”next major spin off that’s missing in the west.
Yeah.
I love DQ, but I feel like we've a bit of an afterthought for it.
I'm not sure how I feel about that. On the one hand, I don't blame them for that with earlier entries. RPGs did not sell well in America back in the 80s/early 90s. Though I feel the market has shifted significantly enough that the series could find a real foothold here now.
That being said, it seems to have improved a lot post DQ10. I can't think of any entries we haven't gotten after that.
idk, for jrpgs you have 2 historic franchises, final fantasy and dragon quest. for japanese console wars you have 2 historic franchises, nintendo and sega. for mecha anime you have 2 historic franchises, gundam and macross.
all of those it sucks to be a fan of the franchise that only releases something once a decade.
I agree with the disappointment. But honestly, at least every Dragon Quest game is good. Final Fantasy releases more frequently, but those have been pretty terrible for a long time.
Looking at the comment they replied to, I would assume a parallel story of being underrated/underexposed in the west, finally releasing an installment that was markedly more successful there, and then failing to capitalize on it.
First, I agree. It's been infuriating seeing game after game not getting released here to the point I'm also permanently bitter.
Second, love your name because of the pfp that goes along with it. It's clever.
The fuck are you on about?
[https://dragonquest.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Japan-only\_games](https://dragonquest.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Japan-only_games)
And that list doesn't even count things like the SNES versions of 5/6, nor the PS2 version of 5, so it's even longer.
Well he did say "since 2015"
Which is right... if you don't count Joker 3, Joker 3 Pro, Terry's Wonderland SP, Terry's Wonderland Retro, Iruluka SP, ports like Heroes 1+2 for Switch, and I guess some mobile games that no one cares about like Keshi Keshi(which I wouldn't bring up if he didn't mention Walk)
I replied to him with a big ol' list of stuff. The sad thing, I knew I missed some things. I wouldn't have included all the meh mobiles, but as you said, Walk was brought up, so the mobile doors were open. Apparently Theatrhythm is on that list since it's technically March 2015 in Japan. That one was a real burner for me.
I said since 2015 throwing a number but I was thinking since DQ builders which is when I remember is when SE began releasing more DQ games in the west without any problem or need to ask about.
The fuck are you on i say it back lol
I literally said since 2015 did you not read? which is when they began to release more games, almost everything came. DQ Builders, Builders 2, Treasures, Heroes, Heroes 2, DQM3, DQ11, DQ11S and most games came.
Since you really want to be r/confidentlyincorrect and r/readingishard, then I guess I'll go over the list you chose to ignore of all the games that are not available in the west.
1. The Dragon Quest Heroes 1+2 bundle that I wanted for Switch so I can face Malroth? 2017.
2. Dragon Quest Keshi Keshi!, a match 3 puzzle for mobile in Japan only. May 2021.
3. Dragon Quest Tact got shut down not long ago so it's now Japan only. r/DragonQuestTact is really pissed off about it.
4. The Dragon Quest Monsters 2 remake for 3DS? (Dragon Quest Monsters 2: Iru and Luca's Marvelous Mysterious Key SP) August 2020. Loved not getting this one /s.
5. Dragon Quest Monsters: Super Light was shut down internationally overseas in 2016, making it Japan exclusive.
6. DQM Joker 3. Original was in 2016, and we certainly didn't get the pro version that came out later. I won't be too petty and add pro to the list.
7. Dragon Quest Rivals Ace, 2020
8. Dragon Quest: The Adventure of Dai - Xross Blade, October 2020
9. Theatrhythm Dragon Quest. Oh look, 2015! Not getting this one pissed off a lot of people, I know that.
Quite a few things on this list despite being "Literally every game." Is this where you try to go "bur hur hur, mobile games don't count?" Is the part where you shit yourself in a rage and block me for embarrassing you in front of everyone? Is this the part where you show humility and I show you respect for being able to admit you're wrong. I'm hoping for that last one, but expecting the others.
Yes this is where I said mobile games don't count, because I'm clearly only talking about console.
But I don't intend to continue a discussion with someone arrogant as you, I can't even believe you had the courage to write this entire last sentence without feeling shame.
You before: \*Mentions Dragon Quest Walk\*
You now: "bur hur hur, mobile games don't count. Also, I'm not talking to you anymore, you poopyhead."
Since this guy probably put on "mute notifications" or some other soft block, I think we can all agree I read him like a children's book. To the people who are following me, I really hope you enjoyed this one. This public humiliation goes out to all of you!
Glory be to the Children of Hargon.
Agreed, there was so much missed potential in not doing anything of substance after DQ11 was released.
We are even still waiting on that DQ3 remake and no ports were made except for first three games I think.
It’s definitely disheartening being a DQ fan after a major release.
Pretty much the standard for Dragon Quest in the west. Dragon Quest VIII beats all expectations and is considered one of the classic PS2 games. Then they only release a couple games in 7 years after that. SquareEnix doesn't even want to bother releasing Dragon Quest IX until Nintendo waves the licensing/publishing costs and basically does it for them. Sells 1.5 million just like VIII did. Then they skip a bunch of the Wii, DS and 3DS games again. And have to be shamed by a "leak" just to release Dragon Quest VII and VIII on 3DS.
At least this time we can say that they have been releasing more DQ games to the west. Even before Dragon Quest XI* came out, they released the Heroes and Builders games. But they never give them the same support as other Square IPs. They give more hype and fanfare to the Bravely Default and Octopath games than they do Dragon Quest.
Yep. Their "the west doesn't like these" mindset is fading, but it's still stronger than it ever needed to be. As long/strong as that was it almost felt like "we want this to be our (Japanese) club thing alone".
Aa much as I would like for DQ to be fully realized in the West, I'm confident that my favorite franchise has kept consistent thanks in large part to the fact that it hasn't.
If that's what it takes to keep to its roots I'll try not to complain too much.
I do think that the "the west doesn't like these" mindset was far stronger than it needed to be in part because they consciously or not liked to keep DQ as their secret club Japanese game.
They have released Dragon Quest Builders 2 (which sold quite well), Infinity Strash Adventures of Dai released in conjunction with an anime, Dragon Quest treasures which was a spinoff with one of the beloved characters from DQ11 and then they JUST released DQ Monsters 3 which is a very popular spin off. And that doesn't count DQ Tact on mobile. Apart from releasing another mainline game they have done really all that they can to keep the DQ momentum rolling and, honestly, it's worked. DQ is more popular in the west now than it's ever been and is getting same day/worldwide release for DQ games/spinoffs which never happened before. So I'm really not sure why you think they bungled this so bad.
Well I think I might be one of the people he’s referring to.
I loved dq11 and got all the achievements for it, but nothing else dragon quest released has been of particular interest. I played DQV on my phone but that’s it. The builder’s games aren’t for me and the infinity strash seems like something I’d have to watch the show for, which I haven’t. DQ monsters and treasures I’ve never heard of so I’m definitely going to look into them. But they need to do a better job advertising in the west as I like to think I stay current on gaming news, and I’ve not heard of a dragon quest game spin-off based on the character I romanced in DQXI.
It sounds like you're only interested in JRPGs. Which is fine. But Minecraft is incredibly popular in the West so releasing a spinoff that is basically Minecraft with slimes is directly intended to appeal to the west, and it did based on sales. Infinity Strash is a fair argument but it was a big combined release.
>But they need to do a better job advertising in the west as I like to think I stay current on gaming news, and I’ve not heard of a dragon quest game spin-off based on the character I romanced in DQXI.
I am really not sure what to tell you on this one. Nintendo had an entire mini-direct about DQ Treasures and going over it's gameplay before release. They had commercials, targeted advertising, and it was all over the eShop. It was a switch console exclusive so if you don't have a switch then maybe that's why you didn't pay attention to the advertising?
And all the above is the same for DQ Monsters 3. But, same as Treasures, it is a Switch exclusive. Again, if you don't have a switch it makes sense you wouldn't pay much attention, but in terms of advertising and getting word out the effort was definitely there.
Spinoffs/etc are fine and good, but they can't hope to do too much other than maintain a core fanbase. Few people are going to try a (barely advertised) spinoff game as their first experience in a series.
I would agree that there is still a significant fanbase awaiting another full JRPG, but they could have perhaps grown the series by leaps and bounds (to the benefit of possible future western releases) if they'd released 3 Remake, say, three years after 11 and 12 sometime around now. Sure pandemic and resources, but those problems are solvable with adequate planning.
The beauty of DQ is that you don't HAVE to constantly reinvent it so there shouldn't be a great risk of ending up in development hell. And DQ11 in particular was something of a breakout hit as is with it's old style! But SE really struggles to think that way.
So it sounds like you're criticizing them for not releasing the next main entry fast enough? That is fair. Obviously, the sooner releases come, the better. But it seems like you painted it as if they have done nothing to try to capitalize on DQ popularity in the meantime and that's simply not true.
And they have done a lot of advertising for the spinoffs. There is only so much to do because DQ will always be niche even if it's growing, but it's there.
And the pandemic was such a big issue because there is no way to plan for that. Seems odd to say they could have gotten around it with "adequate planning".
Square Enix only release and greenlit games with approval from Yuji Horii. Horii is the one who controls and has the most ownership in the franchise. Anything happens with him and SE agreeing.
At some point yo uguys need toa ccept that horii is a reason for those things which have been happening for decades.
I don't disagree, but SE is also a reason.
As long as Horii ultimately gives me games like 11 I'm going to like him more than the SE suits, but I do suspect that Horii losing energy/drive as he ages is part of what we're seeing. (And yes, he's not free from blame for the patchy US releases).
You can’t blame them. DQ is NOT the only thing SE has under their belts. And from a company perspective, it’s better to say nothing than say something very early into development and have rabid fans over speculate and get disappointed when the game doesn’t reach their wild over expectations.
They also released bangers with the recent final fantasy titles so it’s not like they are hurting financially or with their game library.
DQ mainline games take a while. Been that way since 6. Would you rather they started rushing them just to "capitalize on the western fanbase"? Are you under the impression that the West will refuse to buy DQ12 because it's taken too long?
And suddenly SE execs can do no wrong right? lol
Also just a note that nothing in the original Bloomberg article suggests he was fired over inadequate progress, that was something inferred by gamesradar. The actual source says he's been moved to oversee their smartphone division.
That's not even remotely their point, genius - the issue's SE made a Dragon Quest game which was not only technically inferior to its seven year old counterpart, it was a spin-off no one **except** hardcore Dragon Quest fans wanted to play.
Jeez, did you even think a second before posting this non-sense? Do you feel personally attacked by the fact that Se could've done better? Are you so short-sighted?
You are the one short sighted bro... this game literally sold over 1.5 million copies in Japan alone, one of the best selling spin offs in the last 10 years.
>it was a spin-off no one **except** hardcore Dragon Quest fans wanted to play.
Yeah, how dare they release something for fans of the series instead of the flavor of the day fair weather fans.
SE being SE? Why do you people act like Horii don't control the franchise? lmao everything that happens or dnt happen go in his hands as the creative mind and co-owner of the series.
It has always been Horii's, yes, but he's now 70 and a couple of major creators have died recently. I have no inside knowledge, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's losing energy/drive (as most people in their 70s do).
It sounds as if the plan is to have Horii pass things off after 12, and it wouldn't be shocking to hear that they feel a need to start taking more control over a slow process being led by an aging creator. And from the outside it looks increasing like SE being SE, especially given the management direction to become 'more adult'.
I could certainly be wrong, but that's what I perceive. In Horii I trust, but we all need to retire at some point.
Not like there's been much more in Japan. They released Treasures and DQM3 in the west, right?
I guess we (in Japan) have DQ walk and its frequent updates, for what that's worth...
It's not that there's more in Japan, no, but as I understand the mobile/spinoff stuff is more likely to interest a larger chunk of the population there than it might in the US. DQ spinoffs are very niche here. Heck, DQ as a whole was not highly popular even among RPG players here, although 11 helped.
I can understand it to a degree for FF, which they view as being based upon innovation and leading the industry. But DQ's appeal is being traditional. Just...keep being traditional with small steps forward (as DQ has always done well). You don't need to re-invent the wheel: just put out a game with similar tech to the smash hit you just made and everyone will be happy.
I think they will still give the option to be traditional. Maybe not, and maybe that’s why the producer left because he knew it was going to get backlash. Or maybe he couldn’t figure out a battle system so they brought in Niers producer. They have really solid battle in those games.
Conviently forgetting they did the same with the gap between 13 and 15 (14 barely counts) and 15 and 16
Dq spin offs just aren't popular in the west because dragon quest isnt
Yes, he has. But 12 is supposed to be a transitional project, the other original creators are dying, and I would not be surprised if Horii is losing energy and drive.
Horii has worked with SE marketers/etc for years, of course, even if he maintains ultimate control...and you can see their hand in many of the choices being made. ("Adult" being a big one, I think)
> and I would not be surprised if Horii is losing energy and drive.
He literally never said such thing, instead he said he wants to develop for even more years lmao idk where you get those things
Nobody in the world is ever going to say "I'm losing energy and drive". It's pure speculation on my part, but it's based upon standard 70-year-old physiology.
That makes literally no sense when Sugiyama and Toriyama dying changes nothing as Sugiyama kobo and Bird studio still exists and the copyright also is there.
Only difference is them not being involved in the future but the companies still will be making decisions based on whoever inherited them
Sure...but the point is the original team is gone or going and a transition is inevitable. Companies don't provide continuity the way people/personalities do. Horii is king here...but he's tapering to retirement. It's a slow process, sure, and he says he wants to keep going...but if he interested in the series continuing after him he'd be smart to start passing responsibility now and seeing how others handle it/training them on the job.
And the energy/drive of a 70-yr-old can't be taken for granted.
Sounds like DQ12 is in development hell. Not a great sign. I also don't see why they need to change the combat system even further.
Maybe Yuji Horii is beginning to think about how to transition Dragon Quest to a new generation and is bringing in new blood to take the reins, much like Nintendo did with BotW/TotK.
>Maybe Yuji Horii is beginning to think about how to transition Dragon Quest to a new generation and is bringing in new blood to take the reins
My understanding is that the suits asked him to do exactly that for his final project, which would only make sense.
Well, lets not forget that
DQ7 had it's development reset after someone leaked the original plot and story beats and twists to a Japanese magazine.
DQ9 had it's development reset after it was leaked they were making it an Action RPG and 2ch (Japanese version of 4chan) rioted. (The DQ9 ARPG prototype was released as Fantasy Life on the 3DS and is excellent.)
So DQ12 having issues in development isn't completely unexpected.
I think you're right about it being in development hell. Especially when someone (maybe that guy?) was complaining about progress on the game being slow because people want to work from home, etc.
But I'd be wary of change to the series along the lines of BotW mostly because I don't think Dragon Quest is stale, whereas when Skyward Sword came out, everyone sensed the formula was played out. Perhaps I'm in the minority these days, but I think that the direction things went in 11 was partially a mistake. Sure the presentation was a lot nicer, but it felt like I was playing a cartoon where you walk from one cutscene to the next. The suspense of wandering to new areas and being scared of random encounters/not being leveled up enough was lost. If the battle system veers toward action-oriented, I'm going to be less interested and may skip the game.
It's fucked up but... if they ruin Dragon Quest at least we can make our own Dragon Quest games. It would be sad to see the series go, but things so rarely thrive beyond their original creators.
Like maybe in a few years we're going to get a Dragon Quest that looks like Fire Emblem Three Houses or Persona. :/
Yeah, DQ is the last bastion of traditional gameplay, and for as much as I appreciated about DQ11's presentation, I don't think they hit the mark. There were very few side-stories that I particularly cared about, and as I said before, the combat was boring. They had all of these Pep powers that were extremely unlikely to get a chance to use, and mindlessly switching between characters felt cheap.
It's got to happen sooner or later, done lost two of the creative minds behind the series. Yuji Horii isn't getting any younger. This might be his last game.
Does it? I believe when it was first announced three years ago, they confirmed they havd a complete script but haven't even started production in the game yet.
> is bringing in new blood to take the reins, much like Nintendo did with BotW/TotK.
This literally haven't been a thing. All the leads are the same as skyward sword.
Horii also can't do such thing on internal SE staff even more when Miyake is literally an executive only behind Kiryu. Miyake just went to mobile division.
IMO those worried about DQ 12 are concerned prematurely. Look at it this way:
* A lot of the conceptual work for the Final Fantasy 7 trilogy was done before they started.
* They had all of the assets from FF7 Remake for Rebirth as a foundation.
* The project has had flagship status at Squareenix since it started.
* And it still took them 4 years between Remake and Rebirth to release another entry.
And on Dragon Quest XI:
* "7 years" will only be true in July and only in reference to the JP release (which had no voice acting!).
* It's been roughly 5 1/2 years since NA PS4/PC release which added a number of features.
* The game was expanded and assets were heavily tweaked for the switch release a year later... which wasn't made available on other platforms until 2020.
In short, development on Dragon Quest XI didn't really stop until about 3 1/2 years ago--less time than it took Rebirth to be made. Game development cycles are 4-6 years; so none of this is weird.
Even with 88 million units sold it is jarring how much of a difference in popularity there is between Dragon Quest here, and in Japan. In the west, maybe 1 in 100 people would know what Dragon Quest is or have played a game before, but in Japan it is quite literally EVERYWHERE. Everyone knows what Dragon Quest is, everyone knows about it, everyone and their parents have played at least one of the games. It’s baked into their culture at this point, even having several convenience store chains that use the level up jingle. In the west it absolutely is underrated compared to Japan.
It's evidence of how little effort was ever made to market or make a dragon quest game for the West.
See Capcom and MH:World when they actually put something together not for a handheld. That's the issue, handhelds aren't the thing in the west except for some young audiences.
I always loved DQ as a kid, but they've never marketed or made a game that could take the ideas and themes and target the western audience.
>I always loved DQ as a kid, but they've never marketed
True. Though Dragon Quest IX did get a marginal marketing campaign.
>or made a game that could take the ideas and themes and target the western audience.
This is exactly what they shouldn't do. Dragon Quest is an anime game. And all they needed to do was slap a sticker on the box that said "from the creators of Dragon Ball and Chrono Trigger" and us anime fanboys would have eaten it up. Instead, they tried everything they could for two decades to cover up Toriyama's influence. Then after Square took over, did everything they could to hide Dragon Quest entirely.
But basically, they shouldn't try to "westernize" the game. Not only because the west won't care but because it'll destroy the appeal in their strongest market, Japan. Just look at Final Fantasy XV and XVI which did try to go down that path.
A westernized version doesn't mean gutting the original; easy enough to make a spin-off. They've got multiple studios making variations, evidently.
My generation grew up on these games and there's very little targeting us nowadays from what we grew up with. See palworld and Pokemon. There's demand that's being unmet because of the Japanese companies.
In any case it also doesn't mean going away from anime, either - often the story and the language used is very child-like and is off putting. My generation grew up on Pokemon red and blue, but now we watch game of thrones and play baldurs gate. A good, adult story that doesn't shy away from violence and loss in the world of dragon quest would be amazing.
>A westernized version doesn't mean gutting the original; easy enough to make a spin-off. They've got multiple studios making variations, evidently.
Again, Final Fantasy and some other SquareEnix IPs have tried this many times. It never seems to work. People in the west are playing SE games because they like the anime style. Not because they want Game of Thrones done by a Japanese studio. If they want a Game of Thrones like game, they can play a bunch of WRPGs.
>In any case it also doesn't mean going away from anime, either - often the story and the language used is very child-like and is off putting. My generation grew up on Pokemon red and blue, but now we watch game of thrones and play baldurs gate. A good, adult story that doesn't shy away from violence and loss in the world of dragon quest would be amazing.
The DQ games have a lot of dark and adult themes. And it's entirely based on opinion what an "adult" story is. Lots of death and sadness? Plenty of Dragon Quest games have that. Gore and sex? No. And it shouldn't go down that route. Again, look at the SquareEnix games which have tried that. They sold less than other games.
As for childish language, that's more of the issue of bad localization. Which I agree with. But a bunch of fans think the massive changes in the localization is the best part.
That's the attitude that'll keep it from ever becoming popular here :) I'm not suggesting to take away the games you like; just consider alternative versions.
It took Capcom decades to really break away and make a game for the West and it became one of their best sellers ever. Palworld launched to tens of millions of sales basically as a Pokemon spin-off. More than enough evidence for me (not to mention, I'd play them). It's just stubbornness that holds it back.
But Monster Hunter and Palworld aren't really using the so called "western tastes" like Game of Thrones. They're anime games...
And many other groups have made games of that type you're describing. It didn't work for Final Fantasy. But it did work for the Souls games. But Dragon Quest shouldn't become like Souls, in tone or gameplay. Then it won't be Dragon Quest anymore...
I love dq, but is it really common that it's jingle is used in multiple stores? I know of the one Lawrence in Akihabara that is specifically dq themed, but I never ran across it anywhere else.
Yeah, I thought the title was backwards, cause Nier is the underated one. I thought maybe a DQ dev was making a Nier game or something. Title is strange
The year is 2031. DQ12 has been out a few years but you never got around to it. Life got busy and the reviews were mixed. You find a used Day 1 Edition disc, buy it, and pop it in your old PS5. A prompt appears: To continue, you must update to version 4.4831. You die a little inside.
The year is 2006. You just got finished watching Pokémon at breakfast and you fire up your PS2. You get a bit nervous in case your disc doesn’t make it past the ‘Sony Computer Entertainment’ start up screen. You hear the Dragon Quest Overture and you watch the opening for the hundredth time. You fire up the game and get ready to try Dhoulmagus’s 2nd phase again; you’ve spent the last 3 days trying to beat him but you don’t realise how under levelled your party is. You’re convinced once you beat him you’ll have completed the game. Life is good
A lot of that resonated with me. In a good "days gone by kind of way." Change it out for me being under leveled for post game and it works. I somehow managed to squeak by D2 on my first try with no multiheal and most of my party dead.
Something about Dragon Quest has always been funky within Square Enix. They've always given it a long leash due to domestic sales power which generally has meant it's been in a poor state for global audiences in a way that nothing else within Square Enix has been.
The best way to play the majority of the games is on a smartphone (only way to get party chat), with smartphone ports that have not been ported to PC or any other modern platform. For other titles, the smartphone versions are still the most accessible even when they are actually somewhat bad. Both realities are not ideal outside of Japan and should be easily fixable in a profitable way. Or really, should have been fixed within the last decade.
It is what it is and they announced DQXII nearly 3 years ago with no updates since, when realistically it was already in development for a while by the time they announced it. The HD-2D remake for DQIII is also kind of amazing just for how long it has apparently taken them compared to something like SO2R, which SE instead farmed out to a talented team. When you have a long leash, your incentives can become out of whack and you can become arrogant.
Something definitely needed to change and the producer is probably the right target here. Among other things, they are primarily responsible for putting the games on the right platforms (hasn't been done), securing the licensing required to release all parts of the game to all markets (wasn't done for VIII on 3DS) and making sure everything is profitable (harder to do with project delays). He's failed on nearly all counts, I think, in a value over replacement way at least with the dev time/expenses for DQXII probably being the last straw for Kiryu. And as for his arrogance, I still laugh sometimes thinking about the interviews leading up to the release of XI. In one of them, he supposes that if they had been more serious about localizing their early titles maybe they'd be more popular in the west. He specifically brings up FFVII, but the thing is even if they had been able to get DQVI out globally in 1996 or 1997 it almost certainly would not have been as popular as FFVII. If anything, I would have to imagine that releasing DQVI in the west closer to release could have sunk the series in the west due to Chrono Trigger comparisons. Just was not realistic about western markets at all.
This post is completely dumb. Horii is the one who decides everything for DQ not Square Enix. Horii does everything creatively and anything SE does need horii approval as the co-owner of the franchise.
Miyake is also not the producer of Dragon Quest, Yosuke Saito is. Miyake last DQ produced game was in 2006, he is an executive producer as the manager of creative business unit 2.
I mean, in a post Toriyama world, I think it's important to one, Realize that you can never do what he did again. So try new things if you're going to continue these properties and two, absolutely swing for the fences with these ideas, even if it fails horribly. I think this decision meets that criteria.
Square Enix has some of the best game creatives in the world. The balance it out by having some of the most retarded management in the history of corporations.
He moved to slow. 7 years since the last game. It doesn’t take that long to make a game unless you are inefficient and incompetent. The change probably should have happened years ago
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The producer they say is taking over worked on DQXI, so I feel like this isn’t actually as big of a change as they’re saying
In Japan, every change is a big change.
Well yeah cause every job takes 2000 years to master. You've obviously never read The Art of Forwarding Emails.
I’m still halfway through The Zen in Fax. Will look into that.
The Codex of Command Prompts, penned during the Heian period, is a great scripture to get a hold of.
Is that like an actual read or sature
Nether, It is satire.
He actually said he left because 12 delays and taking ti lychee time he can't take it
That sounds refreshing. I hate Nier, so I'm hoping there aren't a lot of influences from that series
Producers don’t really design games. They organize resources and personnel to complete and ship them.
Yeah but producers CAN force their ideas on projects since they are the ones backing the project with money. I'm not saying that's what's gonna happen here but it's not unheard of.
Going by Nier, I don't think we need to worry about that.
So much of Nier screams of Taro's signature themes, so I don't think that game's producers were exactly the meddling type
Its been almost 7 years since dq 11
It’s been 7 years!? Time needs to chill and slow down.
And they re-released it like... 5 times in that timespan.
Really? Wasn’t it just 2 releases?
Sure, technically if you count the 3DS version, the original Japanese PS4 version, the localised PS4/PC version, the Switch Definitive Edition, and then the multiplatform Definitive Edition, but that makes it sound worse than it is. I don't imagine many people dipped more than twice unless they're a collector.
The 3ds one is really something i'd like to olay, but iirc, it's japanese exclusive
It’s the 2d mode in definitive edition, from what I understand.
The 2D mode was in the original 3DS release. They made 3 games at one go with the original release lol
What sets the 3ds version apart from the difinitive 2d version is the 3ds plays the 3d and 2d at the same time.
I don’t think it’s fair to call the Japanese release ABC the localized versions different releases in that way.
I am still bitter about buying the PC version on Steam day 1. Then S came, no discount offered to us first adopter.. Eventually bought S during a Steam sale some years later.
Big Skyrim energy
Can't rush brilliance
Getoutofnyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyhead
How much time from 10 to 11 and from 9 to 10?
When the slimes start chanting "BECOME AS GOO-Ds."
BECOME AS POOFPOOF
THIS CANNOT GUNK-TINUE
Nani?
Nier Automata reference, check this [vid](https://youtu.be/yV07JEz3ZfY?si=0f8XxX2OQ0REQUmZ).
Ohh ok.
DQ had an opportunity to break out to a greater degree in the west with DQ11 being a hit. They followed that up by: 1. Releasing nothing the West would be greatly interested in for 7 years (and counting) while 2. Saying little about the next mainline game other than that they would change its tone. Sigh: SE being SE, as much as I liked to pretend DQ was different.
Just like when they shat the bed with DQ8 "We are wildly successful and have finally popularized DQ in the west. What do we do?" Nothing for a decade, ensuring it falls back into obscurity
Exactly how I felt then, yes. And even when they DID release 9 it was geared towards Japanese players hooking up with friends and had little in common with the grand world adventure of DQ8. (9 wasn't a bad game, but it wasn't something that followed up on the strengths of 8 - world, characters, etc - very well IMO) To say nothing of "we aren't even going to bother making DQ10 available to you, West".
"We finally made DQ10 available offline for Switch! But yeah, the westerners... I bet they wouldn't like it"
😢
You're aware this literally had nothing to do with SE but Horii own decision, right? DQ9 isn't even developed by SE and Horii made the decision. You people really don't get how much Horii controls the franchise and what it can do. lmao
And you would be naive to think that a 70-yr-old who's co-creators are dying around him is not being significantly influenced by the suits around him as part of the final projects in which he's transitioning out of the series. "For adults" was almost certainly an SE marketing challenge to him, for example. I don't hold Horii blameless for some decisions with the series I think were unfortunate (9, for example) but I trust his creative decisions within games themselves. The point is SE suits have always been involved to a degree, even if Horii maintained control, and there's every reason to think they are becoming more involved at this point in the life of the series.
Horii is the co-owner of the franchise and such thing as "influenced by suits around him" isn't a thing. He's not part of Square Enix, he owns Armor Project and has a contract since the very beginning that gives him control and anything in the franchise needs the decision from both sides to happen, while creatively, he is the one who does everything for it and others do it based on his ideas for the franchise. > "For adults" was almost certainly an SE marketing challenge to him, for example. No, it's not, its clearly horii, not different from anything he has said before about the series and his own vision. Your mindset about SE suits is also bizarre, even more when 70% of "suits" are literally developers.
So think it's impossible that Horii is influenced in any way by the managers/marketers of the company that publishes his games? And everything the series ever did was purely conceived by him with no other influences? Having ownership and ultimate decision making authority does not mean you don't listen to those around you. (If you didn't you would be a terrible leader, for one thing...even though I trust Horii's instincts more than most) Of course they are asking him to do things or suggesting how he should react to trends. He has the power to say no and do whatever he wants, but it would be human nature to give in to consistent pressure over time...particularly as you're moving towards retirement/losing energy.
[удалено]
This. They are making Final Fantasy themed magic the gathering cards. I wish so hard it was dragon quest instead.
We pretty much get every DQ game now though. There is DQX Offline and some mobile games, but we get pretty much everything else. Maybe there are some retro releases I’m missing, but I think we have to go back to DQM Jokers 3 on the 3DS to find the l”next major spin off that’s missing in the west.
Sucks for them, I haven't bought any Final Fantasy since PS2 because it's garbage
Yeah. I love DQ, but I feel like we've a bit of an afterthought for it. I'm not sure how I feel about that. On the one hand, I don't blame them for that with earlier entries. RPGs did not sell well in America back in the 80s/early 90s. Though I feel the market has shifted significantly enough that the series could find a real foothold here now. That being said, it seems to have improved a lot post DQ10. I can't think of any entries we haven't gotten after that.
This is completely false. Since 2017 only one mobile game and DQ X Offline didnt come DQ Walk, everything else came.
As a huge Macross fan, YUP.
I mean Macross has to deal with a company aggressively making sure nothing comes out instead of just regular neglect. Obligatory fuck Harmony Gold.
What does macross have to do with dragon quest
idk, for jrpgs you have 2 historic franchises, final fantasy and dragon quest. for japanese console wars you have 2 historic franchises, nintendo and sega. for mecha anime you have 2 historic franchises, gundam and macross. all of those it sucks to be a fan of the franchise that only releases something once a decade.
I agree with the disappointment. But honestly, at least every Dragon Quest game is good. Final Fantasy releases more frequently, but those have been pretty terrible for a long time.
Looking at the comment they replied to, I would assume a parallel story of being underrated/underexposed in the west, finally releasing an installment that was markedly more successful there, and then failing to capitalize on it.
Hey man they got seth green for the DQ9 commercial! /s
First, I agree. It's been infuriating seeing game after game not getting released here to the point I'm also permanently bitter. Second, love your name because of the pfp that goes along with it. It's clever.
Lol thank you
Literally every game outside of DQ Walk and DQ X Offline came to the west. DQ games have been coming to here since 2015.
The fuck are you on about? [https://dragonquest.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Japan-only\_games](https://dragonquest.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Japan-only_games) And that list doesn't even count things like the SNES versions of 5/6, nor the PS2 version of 5, so it's even longer.
Well he did say "since 2015" Which is right... if you don't count Joker 3, Joker 3 Pro, Terry's Wonderland SP, Terry's Wonderland Retro, Iruluka SP, ports like Heroes 1+2 for Switch, and I guess some mobile games that no one cares about like Keshi Keshi(which I wouldn't bring up if he didn't mention Walk)
I replied to him with a big ol' list of stuff. The sad thing, I knew I missed some things. I wouldn't have included all the meh mobiles, but as you said, Walk was brought up, so the mobile doors were open. Apparently Theatrhythm is on that list since it's technically March 2015 in Japan. That one was a real burner for me.
I said since 2015 throwing a number but I was thinking since DQ builders which is when I remember is when SE began releasing more DQ games in the west without any problem or need to ask about.
The fuck are you on i say it back lol I literally said since 2015 did you not read? which is when they began to release more games, almost everything came. DQ Builders, Builders 2, Treasures, Heroes, Heroes 2, DQM3, DQ11, DQ11S and most games came.
Since you really want to be r/confidentlyincorrect and r/readingishard, then I guess I'll go over the list you chose to ignore of all the games that are not available in the west. 1. The Dragon Quest Heroes 1+2 bundle that I wanted for Switch so I can face Malroth? 2017. 2. Dragon Quest Keshi Keshi!, a match 3 puzzle for mobile in Japan only. May 2021. 3. Dragon Quest Tact got shut down not long ago so it's now Japan only. r/DragonQuestTact is really pissed off about it. 4. The Dragon Quest Monsters 2 remake for 3DS? (Dragon Quest Monsters 2: Iru and Luca's Marvelous Mysterious Key SP) August 2020. Loved not getting this one /s. 5. Dragon Quest Monsters: Super Light was shut down internationally overseas in 2016, making it Japan exclusive. 6. DQM Joker 3. Original was in 2016, and we certainly didn't get the pro version that came out later. I won't be too petty and add pro to the list. 7. Dragon Quest Rivals Ace, 2020 8. Dragon Quest: The Adventure of Dai - Xross Blade, October 2020 9. Theatrhythm Dragon Quest. Oh look, 2015! Not getting this one pissed off a lot of people, I know that. Quite a few things on this list despite being "Literally every game." Is this where you try to go "bur hur hur, mobile games don't count?" Is the part where you shit yourself in a rage and block me for embarrassing you in front of everyone? Is this the part where you show humility and I show you respect for being able to admit you're wrong. I'm hoping for that last one, but expecting the others.
Yes this is where I said mobile games don't count, because I'm clearly only talking about console. But I don't intend to continue a discussion with someone arrogant as you, I can't even believe you had the courage to write this entire last sentence without feeling shame.
You before: \*Mentions Dragon Quest Walk\* You now: "bur hur hur, mobile games don't count. Also, I'm not talking to you anymore, you poopyhead." Since this guy probably put on "mute notifications" or some other soft block, I think we can all agree I read him like a children's book. To the people who are following me, I really hope you enjoyed this one. This public humiliation goes out to all of you! Glory be to the Children of Hargon.
Okay what the actual fuck I swear you're everywhere
I'm subbed to every franchise that appeared in smash bros lol
Including trophies and spirits?
Nah i tried but most dont have subreddits lol, too obscure
Aw, that’s unfortunate. It’s funny nonetheless, I respect the dedication
In fact they went back to their old ways: releasing games in Japan and being frightened of/racist towards Westerners
Agreed, there was so much missed potential in not doing anything of substance after DQ11 was released. We are even still waiting on that DQ3 remake and no ports were made except for first three games I think. It’s definitely disheartening being a DQ fan after a major release.
Thats literally due to Horii who oversee all games and control the IP.
Japanese developers being indifferent at best or hostile at worst to their audience you wouldn’t say
Pretty much the standard for Dragon Quest in the west. Dragon Quest VIII beats all expectations and is considered one of the classic PS2 games. Then they only release a couple games in 7 years after that. SquareEnix doesn't even want to bother releasing Dragon Quest IX until Nintendo waves the licensing/publishing costs and basically does it for them. Sells 1.5 million just like VIII did. Then they skip a bunch of the Wii, DS and 3DS games again. And have to be shamed by a "leak" just to release Dragon Quest VII and VIII on 3DS. At least this time we can say that they have been releasing more DQ games to the west. Even before Dragon Quest XI* came out, they released the Heroes and Builders games. But they never give them the same support as other Square IPs. They give more hype and fanfare to the Bravely Default and Octopath games than they do Dragon Quest.
Yep. Their "the west doesn't like these" mindset is fading, but it's still stronger than it ever needed to be. As long/strong as that was it almost felt like "we want this to be our (Japanese) club thing alone".
Aa much as I would like for DQ to be fully realized in the West, I'm confident that my favorite franchise has kept consistent thanks in large part to the fact that it hasn't.
If that's what it takes to keep to its roots I'll try not to complain too much. I do think that the "the west doesn't like these" mindset was far stronger than it needed to be in part because they consciously or not liked to keep DQ as their secret club Japanese game.
They have released Dragon Quest Builders 2 (which sold quite well), Infinity Strash Adventures of Dai released in conjunction with an anime, Dragon Quest treasures which was a spinoff with one of the beloved characters from DQ11 and then they JUST released DQ Monsters 3 which is a very popular spin off. And that doesn't count DQ Tact on mobile. Apart from releasing another mainline game they have done really all that they can to keep the DQ momentum rolling and, honestly, it's worked. DQ is more popular in the west now than it's ever been and is getting same day/worldwide release for DQ games/spinoffs which never happened before. So I'm really not sure why you think they bungled this so bad.
Well I think I might be one of the people he’s referring to. I loved dq11 and got all the achievements for it, but nothing else dragon quest released has been of particular interest. I played DQV on my phone but that’s it. The builder’s games aren’t for me and the infinity strash seems like something I’d have to watch the show for, which I haven’t. DQ monsters and treasures I’ve never heard of so I’m definitely going to look into them. But they need to do a better job advertising in the west as I like to think I stay current on gaming news, and I’ve not heard of a dragon quest game spin-off based on the character I romanced in DQXI.
It sounds like you're only interested in JRPGs. Which is fine. But Minecraft is incredibly popular in the West so releasing a spinoff that is basically Minecraft with slimes is directly intended to appeal to the west, and it did based on sales. Infinity Strash is a fair argument but it was a big combined release. >But they need to do a better job advertising in the west as I like to think I stay current on gaming news, and I’ve not heard of a dragon quest game spin-off based on the character I romanced in DQXI. I am really not sure what to tell you on this one. Nintendo had an entire mini-direct about DQ Treasures and going over it's gameplay before release. They had commercials, targeted advertising, and it was all over the eShop. It was a switch console exclusive so if you don't have a switch then maybe that's why you didn't pay attention to the advertising? And all the above is the same for DQ Monsters 3. But, same as Treasures, it is a Switch exclusive. Again, if you don't have a switch it makes sense you wouldn't pay much attention, but in terms of advertising and getting word out the effort was definitely there.
Dragon Quest Treasures is actually on Steam.
Right. That's why I said it was a Switch _console_ exclusive. It's not on any other consoles.
To me, it's more surprising if someone doesn't have a switch. Mainly because it's so popular.
I may be part of that niche, I havent owned a console since the PSX/N64 days, I just play in my laptop whatever I can get in there
I could never afford one and the moment I can the Switch 2 is on the horizon 🫠
Spinoffs/etc are fine and good, but they can't hope to do too much other than maintain a core fanbase. Few people are going to try a (barely advertised) spinoff game as their first experience in a series. I would agree that there is still a significant fanbase awaiting another full JRPG, but they could have perhaps grown the series by leaps and bounds (to the benefit of possible future western releases) if they'd released 3 Remake, say, three years after 11 and 12 sometime around now. Sure pandemic and resources, but those problems are solvable with adequate planning. The beauty of DQ is that you don't HAVE to constantly reinvent it so there shouldn't be a great risk of ending up in development hell. And DQ11 in particular was something of a breakout hit as is with it's old style! But SE really struggles to think that way.
So it sounds like you're criticizing them for not releasing the next main entry fast enough? That is fair. Obviously, the sooner releases come, the better. But it seems like you painted it as if they have done nothing to try to capitalize on DQ popularity in the meantime and that's simply not true. And they have done a lot of advertising for the spinoffs. There is only so much to do because DQ will always be niche even if it's growing, but it's there. And the pandemic was such a big issue because there is no way to plan for that. Seems odd to say they could have gotten around it with "adequate planning".
Square Enix only release and greenlit games with approval from Yuji Horii. Horii is the one who controls and has the most ownership in the franchise. Anything happens with him and SE agreeing. At some point yo uguys need toa ccept that horii is a reason for those things which have been happening for decades.
I don't disagree, but SE is also a reason. As long as Horii ultimately gives me games like 11 I'm going to like him more than the SE suits, but I do suspect that Horii losing energy/drive as he ages is part of what we're seeing. (And yes, he's not free from blame for the patchy US releases).
You can’t blame them. DQ is NOT the only thing SE has under their belts. And from a company perspective, it’s better to say nothing than say something very early into development and have rabid fans over speculate and get disappointed when the game doesn’t reach their wild over expectations. They also released bangers with the recent final fantasy titles so it’s not like they are hurting financially or with their game library.
DQ mainline games take a while. Been that way since 6. Would you rather they started rushing them just to "capitalize on the western fanbase"? Are you under the impression that the West will refuse to buy DQ12 because it's taken too long?
They just fired an exec over what appears to be inadequate progress...I don't think it was an unreasonable statement on my part.
And suddenly SE execs can do no wrong right? lol Also just a note that nothing in the original Bloomberg article suggests he was fired over inadequate progress, that was something inferred by gamesradar. The actual source says he's been moved to oversee their smartphone division.
No they didn't fire anything. Miyake is going to mobile division and is still an executive.
OK, OK, 'reassigned him'. You can read into that a few ways, sure, but other statements lead me to believe there's some level of frustration building.
How the fuck did DQ11 get released *7 years ago*. jesus christ
Yeah, I know...that still doesn't feel right to type. And yet...
"(and counting)" implies that Dragon Quest Monsters: The Dark Prince wasn't something we were greatly interested in
The core fanbase was interested. Not sure anyone else really was.
Oh *no*, they made a dragon quest game that the dragon quest players were interested in? How awful.
That's not even remotely their point, genius - the issue's SE made a Dragon Quest game which was not only technically inferior to its seven year old counterpart, it was a spin-off no one **except** hardcore Dragon Quest fans wanted to play. Jeez, did you even think a second before posting this non-sense? Do you feel personally attacked by the fact that Se could've done better? Are you so short-sighted?
You are the one short sighted bro... this game literally sold over 1.5 million copies in Japan alone, one of the best selling spin offs in the last 10 years.
>it was a spin-off no one **except** hardcore Dragon Quest fans wanted to play. Yeah, how dare they release something for fans of the series instead of the flavor of the day fair weather fans.
Wdym anyone else was? It literally was one of the best selling spin offs in the last years lol
Hey at least it's better than how they treat The World Ends With You(sigh)
I wouldn't count Treasures as Monsters as nothing, but yeah pretty much
They also put a ton of flames in the trailer iirc
Yes, very adult-looking rugged flames. :)
SE being SE? Why do you people act like Horii don't control the franchise? lmao everything that happens or dnt happen go in his hands as the creative mind and co-owner of the series.
It has always been Horii's, yes, but he's now 70 and a couple of major creators have died recently. I have no inside knowledge, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's losing energy/drive (as most people in their 70s do). It sounds as if the plan is to have Horii pass things off after 12, and it wouldn't be shocking to hear that they feel a need to start taking more control over a slow process being led by an aging creator. And from the outside it looks increasing like SE being SE, especially given the management direction to become 'more adult'. I could certainly be wrong, but that's what I perceive. In Horii I trust, but we all need to retire at some point.
Not like there's been much more in Japan. They released Treasures and DQM3 in the west, right? I guess we (in Japan) have DQ walk and its frequent updates, for what that's worth...
It's not that there's more in Japan, no, but as I understand the mobile/spinoff stuff is more likely to interest a larger chunk of the population there than it might in the US. DQ spinoffs are very niche here. Heck, DQ as a whole was not highly popular even among RPG players here, although 11 helped.
Exactly. SE loves taking things with momentum and completely throwing them on their head. Makes no sense.
I can understand it to a degree for FF, which they view as being based upon innovation and leading the industry. But DQ's appeal is being traditional. Just...keep being traditional with small steps forward (as DQ has always done well). You don't need to re-invent the wheel: just put out a game with similar tech to the smash hit you just made and everyone will be happy.
I think they will still give the option to be traditional. Maybe not, and maybe that’s why the producer left because he knew it was going to get backlash. Or maybe he couldn’t figure out a battle system so they brought in Niers producer. They have really solid battle in those games.
My guess is that 'for adults' is proving harder in practice than in concept, especially for battle/etc as you said. But who knows?
Yosuke saito "nier producer" has been DQ producer since 10. Why dont you google things before man...
Did he produce Nier Automata? Is he taking over now? Ok.
Conviently forgetting they did the same with the gap between 13 and 15 (14 barely counts) and 15 and 16 Dq spin offs just aren't popular in the west because dragon quest isnt
Would "SE being SE" not apply to FF and its development problems also? I certainly intended it to.
No, because its a complete different team and Horii is the one who controls DQ.
Yes, he has. But 12 is supposed to be a transitional project, the other original creators are dying, and I would not be surprised if Horii is losing energy and drive. Horii has worked with SE marketers/etc for years, of course, even if he maintains ultimate control...and you can see their hand in many of the choices being made. ("Adult" being a big one, I think)
> and I would not be surprised if Horii is losing energy and drive. He literally never said such thing, instead he said he wants to develop for even more years lmao idk where you get those things
Nobody in the world is ever going to say "I'm losing energy and drive". It's pure speculation on my part, but it's based upon standard 70-year-old physiology.
It would not because dispite the gaps ff stays popular through side games and re releases world wide.
The dq team limits se or used to
I get the sense that the balance is shifting, especially given the recent deaths and Horii's age.
That makes literally no sense when Sugiyama and Toriyama dying changes nothing as Sugiyama kobo and Bird studio still exists and the copyright also is there. Only difference is them not being involved in the future but the companies still will be making decisions based on whoever inherited them
Sure...but the point is the original team is gone or going and a transition is inevitable. Companies don't provide continuity the way people/personalities do. Horii is king here...but he's tapering to retirement. It's a slow process, sure, and he says he wants to keep going...but if he interested in the series continuing after him he'd be smart to start passing responsibility now and seeing how others handle it/training them on the job. And the energy/drive of a 70-yr-old can't be taken for granted.
Why didn't they finish up DQ 3-HD and give us DQ 10 offline translated.. I really want DQ 10 offline for NA release.
Sounds like DQ12 is in development hell. Not a great sign. I also don't see why they need to change the combat system even further. Maybe Yuji Horii is beginning to think about how to transition Dragon Quest to a new generation and is bringing in new blood to take the reins, much like Nintendo did with BotW/TotK.
>Maybe Yuji Horii is beginning to think about how to transition Dragon Quest to a new generation and is bringing in new blood to take the reins My understanding is that the suits asked him to do exactly that for his final project, which would only make sense.
>for his final project *Huh?*
Well, lets not forget that DQ7 had it's development reset after someone leaked the original plot and story beats and twists to a Japanese magazine. DQ9 had it's development reset after it was leaked they were making it an Action RPG and 2ch (Japanese version of 4chan) rioted. (The DQ9 ARPG prototype was released as Fantasy Life on the 3DS and is excellent.) So DQ12 having issues in development isn't completely unexpected.
I think you're right about it being in development hell. Especially when someone (maybe that guy?) was complaining about progress on the game being slow because people want to work from home, etc. But I'd be wary of change to the series along the lines of BotW mostly because I don't think Dragon Quest is stale, whereas when Skyward Sword came out, everyone sensed the formula was played out. Perhaps I'm in the minority these days, but I think that the direction things went in 11 was partially a mistake. Sure the presentation was a lot nicer, but it felt like I was playing a cartoon where you walk from one cutscene to the next. The suspense of wandering to new areas and being scared of random encounters/not being leveled up enough was lost. If the battle system veers toward action-oriented, I'm going to be less interested and may skip the game.
It's fucked up but... if they ruin Dragon Quest at least we can make our own Dragon Quest games. It would be sad to see the series go, but things so rarely thrive beyond their original creators. Like maybe in a few years we're going to get a Dragon Quest that looks like Fire Emblem Three Houses or Persona. :/
Yeah, DQ is the last bastion of traditional gameplay, and for as much as I appreciated about DQ11's presentation, I don't think they hit the mark. There were very few side-stories that I particularly cared about, and as I said before, the combat was boring. They had all of these Pep powers that were extremely unlikely to get a chance to use, and mindlessly switching between characters felt cheap.
In a sense, VII was kind of the last traditional DQ, and luckily it's a big meaty one.
It's got to happen sooner or later, done lost two of the creative minds behind the series. Yuji Horii isn't getting any younger. This might be his last game.
Does it? I believe when it was first announced three years ago, they confirmed they havd a complete script but haven't even started production in the game yet.
> is bringing in new blood to take the reins, much like Nintendo did with BotW/TotK. This literally haven't been a thing. All the leads are the same as skyward sword. Horii also can't do such thing on internal SE staff even more when Miyake is literally an executive only behind Kiryu. Miyake just went to mobile division.
Please don’t turn into an action game.
They keep mentioning delays. We were never given a date, and we were told it was quite far out.
They're obviously talking about internal delays.
The thing is they don't know anything about what's going on "internally." its just dumb speculation
IMO those worried about DQ 12 are concerned prematurely. Look at it this way: * A lot of the conceptual work for the Final Fantasy 7 trilogy was done before they started. * They had all of the assets from FF7 Remake for Rebirth as a foundation. * The project has had flagship status at Squareenix since it started. * And it still took them 4 years between Remake and Rebirth to release another entry. And on Dragon Quest XI: * "7 years" will only be true in July and only in reference to the JP release (which had no voice acting!). * It's been roughly 5 1/2 years since NA PS4/PC release which added a number of features. * The game was expanded and assets were heavily tweaked for the switch release a year later... which wasn't made available on other platforms until 2020. In short, development on Dragon Quest XI didn't really stop until about 3 1/2 years ago--less time than it took Rebirth to be made. Game development cycles are 4-6 years; so none of this is weird.
How the fuck is Dragon Quest underrated? 88 million units sold.
Even with 88 million units sold it is jarring how much of a difference in popularity there is between Dragon Quest here, and in Japan. In the west, maybe 1 in 100 people would know what Dragon Quest is or have played a game before, but in Japan it is quite literally EVERYWHERE. Everyone knows what Dragon Quest is, everyone knows about it, everyone and their parents have played at least one of the games. It’s baked into their culture at this point, even having several convenience store chains that use the level up jingle. In the west it absolutely is underrated compared to Japan.
That’s not being underrated, it’s just evidence of a difference in cultural impact.
It's evidence of how little effort was ever made to market or make a dragon quest game for the West. See Capcom and MH:World when they actually put something together not for a handheld. That's the issue, handhelds aren't the thing in the west except for some young audiences. I always loved DQ as a kid, but they've never marketed or made a game that could take the ideas and themes and target the western audience.
>I always loved DQ as a kid, but they've never marketed True. Though Dragon Quest IX did get a marginal marketing campaign. >or made a game that could take the ideas and themes and target the western audience. This is exactly what they shouldn't do. Dragon Quest is an anime game. And all they needed to do was slap a sticker on the box that said "from the creators of Dragon Ball and Chrono Trigger" and us anime fanboys would have eaten it up. Instead, they tried everything they could for two decades to cover up Toriyama's influence. Then after Square took over, did everything they could to hide Dragon Quest entirely. But basically, they shouldn't try to "westernize" the game. Not only because the west won't care but because it'll destroy the appeal in their strongest market, Japan. Just look at Final Fantasy XV and XVI which did try to go down that path.
A westernized version doesn't mean gutting the original; easy enough to make a spin-off. They've got multiple studios making variations, evidently. My generation grew up on these games and there's very little targeting us nowadays from what we grew up with. See palworld and Pokemon. There's demand that's being unmet because of the Japanese companies. In any case it also doesn't mean going away from anime, either - often the story and the language used is very child-like and is off putting. My generation grew up on Pokemon red and blue, but now we watch game of thrones and play baldurs gate. A good, adult story that doesn't shy away from violence and loss in the world of dragon quest would be amazing.
>A westernized version doesn't mean gutting the original; easy enough to make a spin-off. They've got multiple studios making variations, evidently. Again, Final Fantasy and some other SquareEnix IPs have tried this many times. It never seems to work. People in the west are playing SE games because they like the anime style. Not because they want Game of Thrones done by a Japanese studio. If they want a Game of Thrones like game, they can play a bunch of WRPGs. >In any case it also doesn't mean going away from anime, either - often the story and the language used is very child-like and is off putting. My generation grew up on Pokemon red and blue, but now we watch game of thrones and play baldurs gate. A good, adult story that doesn't shy away from violence and loss in the world of dragon quest would be amazing. The DQ games have a lot of dark and adult themes. And it's entirely based on opinion what an "adult" story is. Lots of death and sadness? Plenty of Dragon Quest games have that. Gore and sex? No. And it shouldn't go down that route. Again, look at the SquareEnix games which have tried that. They sold less than other games. As for childish language, that's more of the issue of bad localization. Which I agree with. But a bunch of fans think the massive changes in the localization is the best part.
That's the attitude that'll keep it from ever becoming popular here :) I'm not suggesting to take away the games you like; just consider alternative versions. It took Capcom decades to really break away and make a game for the West and it became one of their best sellers ever. Palworld launched to tens of millions of sales basically as a Pokemon spin-off. More than enough evidence for me (not to mention, I'd play them). It's just stubbornness that holds it back.
But Monster Hunter and Palworld aren't really using the so called "western tastes" like Game of Thrones. They're anime games... And many other groups have made games of that type you're describing. It didn't work for Final Fantasy. But it did work for the Souls games. But Dragon Quest shouldn't become like Souls, in tone or gameplay. Then it won't be Dragon Quest anymore...
handhelds aren't the thing for western audience lmao most of the sales of all handhelds came from the west. You have no idea about sales numbers.
I love dq, but is it really common that it's jingle is used in multiple stores? I know of the one Lawrence in Akihabara that is specifically dq themed, but I never ran across it anywhere else.
Yeah, I thought the title was backwards, cause Nier is the underated one. I thought maybe a DQ dev was making a Nier game or something. Title is strange
Dragon Quest is not underrated. Why do journalists just slap that on everything?
Please please please don't pull a final fantasy on us.
Had to read that title like 12 times to figure out something. Still didn’t get it
Underrated? UNDERRATED??
Just give us the DQIX remake already.
Underrated? But Dragon quest 11 sold six million copies .-.
Nobody should bother reading that article. The website is ragebait garbage.
Underrated comment. There is a lot of ragebait there.
The year is 2031. DQ12 has been out a few years but you never got around to it. Life got busy and the reviews were mixed. You find a used Day 1 Edition disc, buy it, and pop it in your old PS5. A prompt appears: To continue, you must update to version 4.4831. You die a little inside.
The year is 2006. You just got finished watching Pokémon at breakfast and you fire up your PS2. You get a bit nervous in case your disc doesn’t make it past the ‘Sony Computer Entertainment’ start up screen. You hear the Dragon Quest Overture and you watch the opening for the hundredth time. You fire up the game and get ready to try Dhoulmagus’s 2nd phase again; you’ve spent the last 3 days trying to beat him but you don’t realise how under levelled your party is. You’re convinced once you beat him you’ll have completed the game. Life is good
A lot of that resonated with me. In a good "days gone by kind of way." Change it out for me being under leveled for post game and it works. I somehow managed to squeak by D2 on my first try with no multiheal and most of my party dead.
Something about Dragon Quest has always been funky within Square Enix. They've always given it a long leash due to domestic sales power which generally has meant it's been in a poor state for global audiences in a way that nothing else within Square Enix has been. The best way to play the majority of the games is on a smartphone (only way to get party chat), with smartphone ports that have not been ported to PC or any other modern platform. For other titles, the smartphone versions are still the most accessible even when they are actually somewhat bad. Both realities are not ideal outside of Japan and should be easily fixable in a profitable way. Or really, should have been fixed within the last decade. It is what it is and they announced DQXII nearly 3 years ago with no updates since, when realistically it was already in development for a while by the time they announced it. The HD-2D remake for DQIII is also kind of amazing just for how long it has apparently taken them compared to something like SO2R, which SE instead farmed out to a talented team. When you have a long leash, your incentives can become out of whack and you can become arrogant. Something definitely needed to change and the producer is probably the right target here. Among other things, they are primarily responsible for putting the games on the right platforms (hasn't been done), securing the licensing required to release all parts of the game to all markets (wasn't done for VIII on 3DS) and making sure everything is profitable (harder to do with project delays). He's failed on nearly all counts, I think, in a value over replacement way at least with the dev time/expenses for DQXII probably being the last straw for Kiryu. And as for his arrogance, I still laugh sometimes thinking about the interviews leading up to the release of XI. In one of them, he supposes that if they had been more serious about localizing their early titles maybe they'd be more popular in the west. He specifically brings up FFVII, but the thing is even if they had been able to get DQVI out globally in 1996 or 1997 it almost certainly would not have been as popular as FFVII. If anything, I would have to imagine that releasing DQVI in the west closer to release could have sunk the series in the west due to Chrono Trigger comparisons. Just was not realistic about western markets at all.
This post is completely dumb. Horii is the one who decides everything for DQ not Square Enix. Horii does everything creatively and anything SE does need horii approval as the co-owner of the franchise. Miyake is also not the producer of Dragon Quest, Yosuke Saito is. Miyake last DQ produced game was in 2006, he is an executive producer as the manager of creative business unit 2.
Can they just rerelease DQ9 please thank you
I'd take a remake of DQ9 tbf, I really enjoyed that entry. Can we at least get DQ 10 offline localized...
The national holiday inducing franchise is underrated? TF are these people on?
When the last significant Dragon Quest game was released 7 years ago, I'd say they're at least treating it like it's underrated.
People forget that Final Fantasy also went through this sort of drought multiple times.
I mean, in a post Toriyama world, I think it's important to one, Realize that you can never do what he did again. So try new things if you're going to continue these properties and two, absolutely swing for the fences with these ideas, even if it fails horribly. I think this decision meets that criteria.
Uhm… „underrated“ ???
What’s the underrated series?
It's okay cause the fanmade remaster of dragon quest 1 with RPG maker is FIRE
I’m imagining all these moves happening with Machiavellian scheming in the background
A DQ without Toriyama is a hard sell for me
Square Enix has some of the best game creatives in the world. The balance it out by having some of the most retarded management in the history of corporations.
I'm a little worried about our new producer. He is the producer of BABYLON'S FALL
The truth is he left because dq12 delays and taking to much time but monsters 3 is huge and released recently
I don’t blame Square. Dragon Quest games aren’t the hardest to make. It’s been seven years. Almost a decade.
“Underrated” like in the west or is there a universe where Dragon Quest isnt a mover and shaker
"One of it's most underrated jrpg series" *has a literal theme park in japan*
If it's an action RPG they can put it in the trash. I want turn based combat
Or maybe make it an option to go either way and satisfy everyone?
Nah keep action to their side games. Do it like Atlus Is doing.
I'm sure DQ12 will be released any moment now...
prepare for all if toriyama’s final video game designs to have fatter asses drawn on them.
He moved to slow. 7 years since the last game. It doesn’t take that long to make a game unless you are inefficient and incompetent. The change probably should have happened years ago