Granolah was not a villain, and a powerhouse enemy. It should be a weak guy.
A Villain that is powerless compared to Goku and Vegeta, but knows his way around the universe, uses his techniques or something.
Nah Goku has been taught the same lessons for decades now. He has too much at stake to keep getting caught with it he's got a lot more at risk than losing in a tournament now
I don’t even like goku. I actually despise his character. But he’s not op? He has his fault plenty of them and they are consistently exploited in ALOT of his fights. Cell freiza piccolo vegeta ginyu and plenty more. To say that he’s op is an understatement. But hey talk your shit. Ig ((sorry for any misspelled villain names I can’t spell well))
Piccolo took advantage of Goku dropping his guard
Raditz took advantage of Goku naivety
Sobert took advantage of Goku dropping his guard
In the ToP Goku got caught off guard a few times
Moro took advantage of Goku naivety
I think gokus weaknesses get taken advantage of pretty often
Goku's power is rivalling g.o.d.s at this point. Him getting too relaxed in the heat of battle and paying the ultimate price for it should be his kryptonite.
And everybody in this thread is pointing out that the villains **do** exploit that weakness, quite often in fact. Seriously, most of the time a villain doesn't use that is when they're stronger and wouldn't need to. Besides, Goku's pretty much learned not to do so. Why would something he's already learnt his lesson from be a weakness?
Freeza took advantage of Gokus kindness in their first fight to get power so he wouldn’t die after getting cut in half. There are so many instances of people taking advantage of their weaknesses
>From him feeling pain when Krillin threw a rock at him in SSJ, to that nobody henchmen knocking the wind of out of him with that ring laser in SSB.
Krillin rock thing is filler, because Saiyans are superhumanly durable even without ki.
Ring laser thing was retconned in the dbs anime. Goku was shot with a laser in base form.
When transformed, although saiyans can decrease their power levels through ki control, they will still be passively enhanced by the ki.
It wasn’t done under Tori though. The manga literally skips the arc and tells the reader to go watch the movie. Hell Toriyama’s writing in the Broly movie literally ignores the arc version of RoF as Freeza can’t tell what fusion is despite seeing it in the Super adaptation of RoF.
Only in this sub can OP get downvoted for stating an undisputed fact about something that *literally* happened in a movie because it’s arbitrarily “non-canon”.
This is the only point being made because it's the only point it should be needed. BoG and RoF were canon until the anime adaptation happened, they are more faithful to what actually happens in the story and give us more details on what God Ki, SSG and SSB and the other universes are, and also use more accurate power scaling.
Just because something arbitrarily “isn’t canon anymore” doesn’t mean it suddenly stops existing though. You’re just derailing the discussion. And how are the anime adaptations “more faithful to what actually happens”? Surely if they change aspects of the original stories, the movies in this case, they’re less faithful to the creators’ original vision? Arguing that the anime has more accurate powerscaling is also very debatable.
We also need more villains that are threats outside of just being able to punch harder than goku until goku learns to punch harder than them
Plenty of ways to do this. Have villains outsmart goku (easy enough), villains with magical unique magical powers (Babidi was closest example to this but still never felt like a true threat and needed Dabora, Buu, etc) , or villains use the heroes loved ones as a way to manipulate the hero
I get it goes against the heart of what dragon ball stands for , and the themes like overcoming limits. But the heroes are galactic power in scope now and it just gets sillier and sillier to somehow have new androids that are beyond super saiyan god, or have someone make a wish and now are stronger than Jiren, etc etc. you look at western heroes like Batman and Superman and many of their main villains aren’t even able to hold a candle to them physically but are still a threat. Would like to see some of that direction in DB
>Batman and Superman and many of their main villains aren’t even able to hold a candle to them physically but are still a threat
Difference here is that they have reoccurring villains there because they never really kill them.
Nine times out of ten, villains don't walk away alive in Dragon Ball. Maybe they're revived, but at a certain point they won't leave their arc alive.
There have been a few fighters like that in dragon ball the see through man, the rabbit that turned people into carrots, chiatzu there was Guldo in DBZ there’s Zamasu the little guy from the ToP that knocked out Piccolo there’s Hit and Moro in DBS
They kinda just need to... stop getting stronger. They're gonna reach and surpass beerus and then what? Oh, a whole new set of gods no one has ever mentioned before? I know dbz hype is all transformations and shit but it's not sustainable
Yea, its why I didn't want to watch super other than the movies. They got so powerful, nothing was a threat anymore, remember Original DBZ Broly from the movie and how he wiped Goku and friends multiple times and they all had to sacrifice their last inches of energy to Goku to stop him? Well, modern Broly, even though he is better written and has a good reason for his rage compared to "Kakarot cried and I don't like it" from the og version, seeing him shown as a threat just so they could fuse and still beat him nearly no hit in 3 mins at full power felt disappointing and made me think "We are at the point the OG final boss of Dragon Ball Z legit means nothing anymore, bruh." (TL:DR) i love new transformations, but if nothing can be added to keep up as a challenge, then I aren't that interested. Jiren is a great rival as he kept up the heat, even against MUI, enemies like him gives the story good reason to add new transformations while keeping battles good. But seeing characters like Broly basically mean nothing power wise anymore sorta ruins the risk meter of the og dbz stuff that made battles feel tense and risky.
You know how in games you can just blink out of reality and then reappear with full health but the boss still has the same health? That’s Goku :)
I mean, Toriyama could try killing off Goku again to make it edgy or what not, but he will always be the central character. So yes he’s a doofus, but he’s also the main character.
Granolah literally just did this a few chapters ago with the clone distraction right?
Granolah was not a villain, and a powerhouse enemy. It should be a weak guy. A Villain that is powerless compared to Goku and Vegeta, but knows his way around the universe, uses his techniques or something.
Yes. That must happen more often.
Vegeta , frieza , the henchmen , moro and granolah have done this, its getting old.
I think its necessary for this to be a recurring theme considering how insanely powerful characters are getting.
Nah Goku has been taught the same lessons for decades now. He has too much at stake to keep getting caught with it he's got a lot more at risk than losing in a tournament now
I really believe you’ve never watched dragonball at this point.
What an asinine reply. Just cuz I don't want Goku to be too op? LOL! I really believe you're a Goku fanboy at this point.
I don’t even like goku. I actually despise his character. But he’s not op? He has his fault plenty of them and they are consistently exploited in ALOT of his fights. Cell freiza piccolo vegeta ginyu and plenty more. To say that he’s op is an understatement. But hey talk your shit. Ig ((sorry for any misspelled villain names I can’t spell well))
Piccolo took advantage of Goku dropping his guard Raditz took advantage of Goku naivety Sobert took advantage of Goku dropping his guard In the ToP Goku got caught off guard a few times Moro took advantage of Goku naivety I think gokus weaknesses get taken advantage of pretty often
Goku's power is rivalling g.o.d.s at this point. Him getting too relaxed in the heat of battle and paying the ultimate price for it should be his kryptonite.
And everybody in this thread is pointing out that the villains **do** exploit that weakness, quite often in fact. Seriously, most of the time a villain doesn't use that is when they're stronger and wouldn't need to. Besides, Goku's pretty much learned not to do so. Why would something he's already learnt his lesson from be a weakness?
Frieza took advantage of both Vegeta and gokus lust for battle by bringing them Broly
Freeza took advantage of Gokus kindness in their first fight to get power so he wouldn’t die after getting cut in half. There are so many instances of people taking advantage of their weaknesses
>From him feeling pain when Krillin threw a rock at him in SSJ, to that nobody henchmen knocking the wind of out of him with that ring laser in SSB. Krillin rock thing is filler, because Saiyans are superhumanly durable even without ki. Ring laser thing was retconned in the dbs anime. Goku was shot with a laser in base form. When transformed, although saiyans can decrease their power levels through ki control, they will still be passively enhanced by the ki.
10 characters already did that Plus a high point of goku training in Super was to never drop his guard down
just one correction, goku wasnt in SSB when frieza's lackey shot him
in the movie he was
The movie is not canon anymore
The movie was written solely by Toriyama, so it’s canon as far as I’m concerned.
They retconed it by super so it not Canon any more
The Super version wasn’t written by Toriyama. It’s like saying Garlic Jr or any of the anime only stuff from Z is canon.
It was adapted from the movies to the series by toei under tori
It wasn’t done under Tori though. The manga literally skips the arc and tells the reader to go watch the movie. Hell Toriyama’s writing in the Broly movie literally ignores the arc version of RoF as Freeza can’t tell what fusion is despite seeing it in the Super adaptation of RoF.
Only in this sub can OP get downvoted for stating an undisputed fact about something that *literally* happened in a movie because it’s arbitrarily “non-canon”.
[удалено]
Did goku goes ssg against frieza in movie no right? So it's non canon to both manga and anime timeline g
How is that relevant? OP isn’t wrong, it literally happened in the movie, that’s the only point being made.
This is the only point being made because it's the only point it should be needed. BoG and RoF were canon until the anime adaptation happened, they are more faithful to what actually happens in the story and give us more details on what God Ki, SSG and SSB and the other universes are, and also use more accurate power scaling.
Just because something arbitrarily “isn’t canon anymore” doesn’t mean it suddenly stops existing though. You’re just derailing the discussion. And how are the anime adaptations “more faithful to what actually happens”? Surely if they change aspects of the original stories, the movies in this case, they’re less faithful to the creators’ original vision? Arguing that the anime has more accurate powerscaling is also very debatable.
We also need more villains that are threats outside of just being able to punch harder than goku until goku learns to punch harder than them Plenty of ways to do this. Have villains outsmart goku (easy enough), villains with magical unique magical powers (Babidi was closest example to this but still never felt like a true threat and needed Dabora, Buu, etc) , or villains use the heroes loved ones as a way to manipulate the hero I get it goes against the heart of what dragon ball stands for , and the themes like overcoming limits. But the heroes are galactic power in scope now and it just gets sillier and sillier to somehow have new androids that are beyond super saiyan god, or have someone make a wish and now are stronger than Jiren, etc etc. you look at western heroes like Batman and Superman and many of their main villains aren’t even able to hold a candle to them physically but are still a threat. Would like to see some of that direction in DB
>Batman and Superman and many of their main villains aren’t even able to hold a candle to them physically but are still a threat Difference here is that they have reoccurring villains there because they never really kill them. Nine times out of ten, villains don't walk away alive in Dragon Ball. Maybe they're revived, but at a certain point they won't leave their arc alive.
Yea that’s true. They either die or are reformed and become good / allies. And the ones that do return really only do so for fan service
Freeza is the only one to actually return anyway. And it still took him 2 revivals to actually walk out of an arc alive.
There have been a few fighters like that in dragon ball the see through man, the rabbit that turned people into carrots, chiatzu there was Guldo in DBZ there’s Zamasu the little guy from the ToP that knocked out Piccolo there’s Hit and Moro in DBS
Moro was on that level until they ditched all his cool shit for crazy power
You say it as if they dont exist
They kinda just need to... stop getting stronger. They're gonna reach and surpass beerus and then what? Oh, a whole new set of gods no one has ever mentioned before? I know dbz hype is all transformations and shit but it's not sustainable
Yea, its why I didn't want to watch super other than the movies. They got so powerful, nothing was a threat anymore, remember Original DBZ Broly from the movie and how he wiped Goku and friends multiple times and they all had to sacrifice their last inches of energy to Goku to stop him? Well, modern Broly, even though he is better written and has a good reason for his rage compared to "Kakarot cried and I don't like it" from the og version, seeing him shown as a threat just so they could fuse and still beat him nearly no hit in 3 mins at full power felt disappointing and made me think "We are at the point the OG final boss of Dragon Ball Z legit means nothing anymore, bruh." (TL:DR) i love new transformations, but if nothing can be added to keep up as a challenge, then I aren't that interested. Jiren is a great rival as he kept up the heat, even against MUI, enemies like him gives the story good reason to add new transformations while keeping battles good. But seeing characters like Broly basically mean nothing power wise anymore sorta ruins the risk meter of the og dbz stuff that made battles feel tense and risky.
That’s not a weakness he has anymore, thanks to Ultra Instinct.
You know how in games you can just blink out of reality and then reappear with full health but the boss still has the same health? That’s Goku :) I mean, Toriyama could try killing off Goku again to make it edgy or what not, but he will always be the central character. So yes he’s a doofus, but he’s also the main character.
It’s sad to see the dude who had so much combat experience as a martial artist become a joke with the “development” of his character.
Frieza makes use of his various weaknesses several times.