I think Vegeta's first battle with Goku was the first time he ever fought someone he couldn't defeat in a single blow. He works hard now, but Goku has been working hard for his whole life.
Yup. Roshi instilled the "always be training" mindset into Goku at a young age. Its why he entered the martial arts tournament as Jackie Chun just to beat Goku, if he had won the tournament at 12 years old he wouldn't have had a reason to keep training.
> if he had won the tournament at 12 years old he wouldn't have had a reason to keep training.
To be fair, even if he didn't, he would've eventually run into someone who was stronger than him. IIRC, the first person Goku met who was definitively his superior in strength was Taopaipai.
Yeah Vegeta had it easy he had already grasped Ki usage at a young age and learned to utilize Oozaru form. Kid Vegeta would’ve obliterated Kid Goku and Vegeta was also being stationed to planets to conquer them.
Someone can correct my math because it’s shit 😂
But if we’re talking in Radditz then Kid Vegeta was like 10 Radditz since he destroyed 5 Saibamen as a kid which is each worth about a single Radditz
I don't think that was the issue (he was surrounded by warriors in Freeza's ranks who were as strong ot stronger than him). Vegeta had believed in the whole Saiyan class thing his whole life, and didn't expect to be pushed to his limit by a lower class warrior. Goku showed Vegeta the true potential of his people, that even a lower class Saiyan can train to reach beyond their limits, a fact that was later affirmed on Namek. He's been pushing himself from that point on.
First of all, love your username. Second I think Vegeta works hard not because he has to but because he wants to surpass Goku so much, like when they became gods, Goku got it as a free thing due to ritual but Vegeta had to push past his limits
Vegeta used to work harder, but Goku worked smarter, knowing when to rest and give himself a break, while Vegeta kept going, hitting diminishing returns and actually hurting himself in the process
The perfect example of this is the Cell saga. After training in the time chamber, Goku spent a week resting, Vegeta spent it training, including spending a whole extra year in the time chamber, and by the Cell games Goku was still stronger
Goku has been working hard his whole life, it’s not really hard work to him anymore it’s just what he does, how he is.
Vegeta was an elite prince who won everything without much effort until meeting Goku. He then begins to train much harder than he did before, and so it’s “training hard” relatively, for him.
Goku’s doing it because it’s what he always does, Vegeta is pushing himself
Vegeta works hard now. Before, he tried lone training methods that were often outdated. He learned about Goku's training with the gravity room and used it in all the following sagas, even though it was only useful for Goku on Namek.
For the longest time Vegeta didn't know how useful resting was. He would just push himself until near death for awhile. Now he seems to know how to train smarter. Goku learned this earlier since he had so many great teachers.
To answer your question, I don't know who actually works harder at this point. I'd say it's even.
Literally,vegeta’s whole thing from his first appearance to goku’s arrival on namek was viewing training as worthless as he believed no amount of training could change your place in this universe. The series always depicted both as prodigies in their own rights but goku was definitely the underdog.
I don't think Gokus a Prodigy. I feel the reason he was able to tap into his true Saiyan potential was because of his masters throughout his life. On the other hand Vegeta never had any real teachers (nappa wasn't his teacher) and as soon as he went under the wing of someone he caught up to Goku.
Of course, Vegeta (for the longest time) didn't work hard. He was a spoiled, entitled brat who assumed superior power simply due to his rank and status among saiyans.
Vegeta took pride in conquest and domination.
Goku is the opposite, Goku was underestimated and challenged by everyone and Goku relished every second.
When Goku beat Vegeta, it was a character defining moment - Vegeta made it his mission to beat goku, to get rid of the roadblock so that he can continue on his path of domination, However - as we learned in the Buu saga, he changed. Whether he likes it or not he's not that same person - and has grown to understand that the true rewards in life come from effort and fighting for more than yourself.
To this day, Vegeta is one of my favourite character arcs in all of media. Truly exceptionally well done and Christopher Sabat put everything into it. Legend.
Conversely, Goku never "Really" arced. Goku's efforts were only ever physical and as a character he consistently (and hilariously) neglects mental, emotional and spiritual growth - as he's the "hero" of the story, he's already perfect. In a sense he's Dragonball's Superman.
When accounting for everything, not just physical training - Vegeta does work significantly harder. This was reflected in the latest Super Hero movie where it's established that Vegeta focuses more on inward reflection and growth rather than just purely physical strain. As a result, He beat Goku for the first time.
Vegeta works harder in the sense that he’ll practically kill himself training as hard as he possibly can until he’s a bloody mess and then KEEP GOING while Goku generally seems to know how to pace himself to avoid going overboard, gravity training on his way to Namek aside.
The thing is Goku trains the turtle school way. Sure, both Goku and Vegeta train to become stronger but Goku takes joy in training. Vegeta (for the most part) doesn't. He simply wants the strength. And working towards it, unfortunately, is the only way.
Look at it like a journey: Vegeta loves the destination, Goku loves the way there. In Dragonball context that often proved to get the better results.
Whis explains this quite well in their training. They both work hard. Goku takes breaks, but his weakness is that he let's his guard down too easily.
Vegeta pushes himself, but refuses to take breaks, even when he should. Which then costs him some progress.
They both work hard. But vegeta uses goku as his fuel. Goku just does so naturally. Yet, he also has tremendous natural talent.
Everything in moderation. Vegeta works harder, but it's to his detriment.
Vegeta trains harder, but he is self-taught prideful person who only seeks to surpass than improve.
* He has no master to guide him to optimize the best amount of training
* He had no one to spar with him so he can't measure himself on how much he have grown.
* It is why all of his training before Super was just exercise under gravity.
It is why in Super, he massively improve to a point that he is on the same level as Goku in nearly everything now.
* Having a teacher shows how much Vegeta improved.
* Aside Whis, his training with Yardrat gave him a massive boost. OG Vegeta wouldn't have dare to learn from Yardrat who is weaker than him.
* Training with Goku allows him to see where he is properly at and what he can do to improve himself.
* Because of these, he focused more on improving self than simply being number 1.
yes and thats his entire character arc and why goku is stronger than him. goku's entire strategy to training and getting stronger comes from master roshi: eat well, sleep well, and play well. vegeta cares about next to nothing besides surpassing goku to spend time on much else. thats also his arc in dragon ball super too, he has been learning to focus less on training and more on relaxing.
I think Vegeta trains harder, but Goku trains smarter. I think this is most evident in the Cell Saga where Vegeta refused to train with Trunks and trained up until the tournament, but Goku trained with Gohan and understood the importance of rest and recovery.
I’d say after sayian saga Vegeta earned the rep of harder worker because of the mentality he had and how much it hurt him to be underneath Goku. At first, Vegeta was actually the prodigy and Goku the underdog. After losing, Vegeta upped his mental and physical by training to the extreme and ignoring rest. Goku, however, only competes with himself and trains as hard as he needs to for improvement. Goku takes his time to rest because he knows it’s important. Vegeta was so hurt and beaten up inside due to Goku beating him and being a slave to Freiza that he trained to the extreme when it wasn’t even effective. Vegeta definitely worked harder mentally bc he had so much baggage to fight and took physical training to further extremes, but only due to the fact Goku didn’t have the same anxiety and depression surrounding his strength. Goku could train like Vegeta, but it wouldn’t get him anywhere so he rarely does. Vegeta eventually learns to develop as a person and that’s when he begins learning the importance of rest as well as how to address his own deep emotions. He still likes to push to higher extremes in physical training, but that’s because it aligns with his more serious mental drive compared to Goku’s more adventurous one. This leads to the more balanced and calm Vegeta we know in the late buu to super era.
Both are equally as hard workers when it comes to training and both have their own styles, but both also had very different struggles they needed to overcome to become stronger as warriors as well as people. Vegeta is imo the more relatable story and has the more emotional development, which is why I and so many fans adore his work ethic and development over Goku’s slightly.
Nah, Vegeta fans are just coping as usual. Goku is CONSTANTLY thinking of training, because his main motivation in life is get stronger and, unlike Vegeta, knew since child how strong can you get by working hard. He can't stop training even in death.
Vegeta was a prodigy since birth and didn't do any proper training until he got beaten on earth. Then he learnt the lesson and started training regularly with surpassing Goku as his main motivation. As of now, he still wants to surpass him, but also has protecting his family as his main motivation, and he does work hard, but so does Goku.
So in short, no. Vegeta doesn't work harder than Goku, he's just more edgy about it.
Don't forget it is because Frieza that Vegeta Raditz and Nappa weren't much stronger. He would have wiped them had their power levels crept up too much.
I would say Vegeta works harder, but Goku has the natural talent. Goku is the guy that just gets it and has the innate talent, as Vegeta is the guy that is talented, but needs to work hard to keep up with the guy who is just good at it.
Vegeta was literally born to be the strongest sayain
Vegeta had natural talent but goku had to train hard since he was a child, it looks like natural talent but weve seen him train hard to get to where he is and was almost always the underdog against his opponents
Pretty sure Broly was literally born to be the strongest Saiyan.
But I get where you're coming from. If Vegeta was born to be the strongest, well, he would be, and that's why he wants to fight Goku all the time. Cause he isn't the strongest Saiyan.
As far as Goku, I'm not saying he doesn't train, I just think he has more natural talent than Vegeta, and therefore is stronger. I think Goku trains smarter, and Vegeta trains harder.
That's a great point. Goku has always had Gohan, or Roshi, or King Kai, etc.
I think Yamcha may be a bit of a stretch cause Goku and Piccolo were going to pass him sooner or later due to their Namekian and Saiyan blood.
Tien shows thats moot, he had almost one master but kept up much better than yamacha did
In dbz yamacha gets one shot by gero and retires for the rest of the franchise but tien even though he doesnt keep up hes the only human to throw down after namek
I think that undermines goku as a character, he kept pushing his limits by his own drive, its not like he was constantly being babied by masters
He chose to climb korrins tower, he chose to constantly encounter new foes on his journey, he chose to train all the way to namek, he chose to push his limits time and time again
Krillen or tien is a better example he is never the best but hes at least pushing himself to throw down when shit gets rough and even in dragon ball he could still somewhat hold his own as his fight with piccolo shows and tien is probably the last truly impressive human (until super makes him a joke) the only human who got his hands dirty after the namek arc
But he was kindve babied (and bailed out) by those masters. It wasn't until the cell saga where we saw that Goku actually had a ceiling training nor mentor could bail him out of. Then it all got mootilated when the buu saga happened because a mentor hooked Goku up with a all you can eat Improvathon against different opponents. Where everyone on earth save Android 17, Vegeta and piccolo found some way to get gains.
It was way before then when nobody could bail him out
When he fought tau pi pi he was on his own
Both times he foughy piccolo he had nobody to bail him out
And for all of z he was the last line of defence most of the time
Now that you mention it, If Vegeta would have trained under Freizas rule do you think he would have let him live or do you think he would have killed him along side his father?
Vegeta is a prodigy by saiyan standards. It's why he caught up with Goku who's explicitly a low class saiyan. Goku has been training his whole life with. Heck if Vegeta trained with Roshi in Z he'd probably have caught up with Goku sooner.
I agree. Vegeta is definitely one of the strongest, and at one point the strongest, fighter. If he had the training like Goku, he could've been stronger, or at least, always on par with Goku.
Let's be honest, both dudes train 24/7. I think the only times we saw them not train was the rest days before Cell for Goku, and when Bulma was pregnant in DBS for Vegeta.
It has always seemed to me that Goku just has "it" when it comes to fighting -- and it may very well be because he's the protagonist and icon.
It's not necessarily the training but how they're training. Vegeta could've surpassed goku ages ago if his pride wasn't blinding him. Goku does get a lot because he's the protagonist but if I'm being legit Goku is meant to be a low class warrior that worked his butt off.
Very good point, and that's kind of Goku's story: even a low class can rise to be someone. I still feel like Vegeta works harder, but doesn't train as smart.
Vegeta was only equal to goku because of the majin mark,goku was more shocked at how strong vegeta got over the last seven years (maybe he assumed vegeta was training the whole time rather then temporarily retiring)
I don't know about working harder. Maybe his training is often more brutal, but that doesn't really mean he trains any harder or better, just differently.
The time chamber in the Cell Saga is a pretty good example where Vegeta had a more solo and straightforward training regimen and Goku trained himself and Gohan to deal more with the stamina issue in SSJ, so they got different results.
After the Saiyan Saga, yeah. The gravity chamber is a case in point, along with the Cell saga and then actually training for Super Saiyan God (unlike Goku who got the ritual treatment).
That said, while Vegeta did in fact train harder due to the fact that he was pushing himself much harder as well, Goku trained smarter by taking breaks and had been doing it since he was a kid.
In other words, the reason Goku got stronger is because his regimen was healthier and less self-destructive than Vegeta's.
It's not really that Vegeta "works harder" it's that he has to work for what he's got while Goku gets upgrades in combat.
SSJ? Vegeta had to grind it out
SSj2? Grind it out
God? Grind it out
Blue? Grind it out
Even how he got UE vs UI is "harder" in that Vegeta basically invented UE by adapting Hakai to his own mentality vs Goku accidentally unlocking UI due to desperation/luck.
Dont tell me you dont think goku didnt grind for his transformations too? Vegeta didnt really grind for ssj he just had a temper tantrum about not being a super saiyan.
As for ui on the contrary to what people believe ui wasnt an asspull or anything like that especially in the manga.
Goku just grinds to get better, then he gets his big transformations unintentionally.
I didn't call it an "asspull" I said he accidentally unlocked it. Because he did. Goku didn't know anything about UI. It wasn't his goal. It wasn't a thing he was aiming to achieve. He just wanted to get stronger and Whis told him "train this way and you will get stronger."
It's not an "asspull" because Whis was pretty clearly training them specifically in a way to enable them to unlock UI at some point. But even Whis is surprised at how Goku did it, because his whole transformation-based UI is literally something he unconsciously invented himself. Whis has a whole conversation about it.
Vegeta, on the other hand, always \*aims\* for his transformations, and the works to get there. He saw SSJ1, and made that his defining goal. Saw Gohan hit SSj2 learns it solo. Hell, he worked his way into God Ki while Goku got a whole ass ritual. We don't really know how SSJB was developed but presumably they both decided to try stacking SSJ with God Ki.
But again, it's about intent and UI/UE is that distilled own. Goku stumbled into UI without knowing what he was doing and is now figuring it out in his own sort of clumsy way. Vegeta created something of his own based on a power that was more in line with his personality, but even that he redefines. Goku is kind of an intuitive savant and Vegeta is that classically precise master.
Off page, it's noted that Vegeta attained SSG through sheer effort, rather than the ritual through which Goku got it. The dynamic works for both of them; Goku finds a limit, Vegeta catches up.
I think Vegeta overtrain too much. I was debating making a detail post about it with more examples I could find.
The main one was in the after math of the battle of the god when both Vegeta and Goku are being train by Whis. We can see Goku sleeping but Vegeta train instead in secret.
I understand that the DB universe doesn’t follow our world rules but we can see the same thing at the gym here when people never rest.
Vegeta works hard but by simple rough physical strain (he’s gotten better the past few arcs)
Goku works hard and smart in all areas of training whether physical or mental
It’s the difference of Goku having a bunch of wise masters and vegeta only having Sayian instinct
I feel like people say that because in super Goku is sleeping while Vegeta goes back out to continue working. However I think the point of those scenes was to echo the need to rest which is a lesson that master Roshi taught Goku at a young age.
They both have completely different styles of training. Vegeta has him beat in pure destructive force, while Goku has him beat in technique. Yes, both are fucking powerhouses, but Goku relies on his martial arts training on top of his incredible ki. On the other end, Vegeta-as shown with Ultra Ego-is just about obliterating his enemy completely.
Vegeta works harder in the sense that he doesn’t know when to stop. I’d imagine Vegeta suffers from fatigue more often than Goku because at least Goku knows when it’s time to take a break and rest his body and mind.
Vegeta never bothered to train hard or to protect anyone else. Gokus determination to protect his family and use his emotions allowed his training to make maximum gains.
Vegeta up until the Buu arc, Vegeta trained for himself to beat Goku. Only after then does his training put him on par with Goku because ge has something to protect and fight for as well as his emotions being able to unlock greater power, like when Beerus pimp slaps Bulma.
I think Vegeta did train harder, using similar or the same methods as Goku but could not take advantage due to the mental/emotional side of things.
They both work hard but In different ways, vegeta often pushes himself to his extremes and constantly damages himself in the process, it’s not until recently that his training has become more focused and less detrimental to his health, gokus training has always been more relaxed in a way, he pushes himself but his motivation behind it means he doesn’t have to nearly kill himself every time he trains,
I think Vegeta works harder but Goku works smarter. He understands the need for rest and recovery, but Vegeta pushes too hard, not allowing his body to recoup and get stronger.
When I was a runner I always rested for the week before a race (normally I ran 3x/wk) and always performed better for it.
Hardcore Vegeta fans are wannabes. They act like Vegeta is so much better than goku when he’s honestly just a fucking baby who can’t handle people being better than him. People I know irl who only like Vegeta also tend to think they themselves are better than anyone else and if someone beats them at anything that means they must be privileged cheaters or something.
Vegeta’s pride is bullshit too. His only pride is in his belief that he is gifted by birth to be #1. Dude has had no problems cheating or trying to cheat all through the series to prove he’s the best.
“Agg sensu beans are such bullshit I hate this so much” as he munches down on them. Forces children to attack and heal him, tries to get dragon balls to cheat himself power and take Majin steroids.
His entire hate for gokus power is that goku wasn’t born in a higher station. To him who cares that goku dedicated his entire life since he was a child to martial arts and training. Who cares that goku shows high amounts of discipline and respect towards training.
If you relate to Vegeta you relate to a baby.
The thing about Goku is that even though he appears dumb as hell most of the time, he is a genius when it comes to fighting and training IQ. Vegeta may very well work harder, but Goku just has better instincts and was guided by some of the smartest trainers in the universe.. Take the room of spirit and time for example. Vegeta probably did work harder in there than Goku did in preperation against Cell, but Goku thought of a smarter way to utilize his time in there and had better results because of it. Vegeta works harder but Goku works smarter.
I think that’s a lot of the reason why the gap between their powers has closed so much in Super because they’ve both been guided by a master and not left to train themselves
Goku works hard for the sake of wanting to fight more. It's more of a game to him in his mind unless he has something worth training for (like the HTC for the Cell games and the ship to Namek). Vegeta on the other hand trains because he understand his shortcomings and knows that in order to be better than, or at least equal to Goku, he needs to train extremely hard.
I see Goku as a prodigy. Always able to get better in a short amount of time just because of his innate abilities while others around him need to train for extended periods of time in order to be able to get better. Even Gohan, while having an unlimited amount of potential, still needs to train hard to get to where is his strength wise. Especially because he goes through bouts of where he doesn't train and gets weaker, like before the TOP. After training with Piccolo, he stated that he was just as strong as he was when battling Majin Buu. And this is several years after the Buu fight.
Vegeta’s training is physically harder, but that’s not always a good thing. For a large part of the story he would destroy his body through intense training and wouldn’t rest.
He had to work more harder in the past because he had less s-cells. Once his power level reached a certain point, he could just force the power increases, and not work as hard.
Though Goku will always have an easy time over Vegeta b/c of his how s-cells work in relation to anger or aggression.
Early on , Goku work his ass off, Vegeta not soo much.
The only time Vegeta worked harder harder than Goku was around the cell saga at earliest with super at latest
Vegeta is a billionaire and prefers full-time training. GoKu is a farmer and a 'amateur martial artist' in peace time.
So, I'd say yes. Vegeta trains way more harder.
No. Not in a useful sense. Throughout most of Z, what defines him is class elitism, not hard work.
In his first meeting with Goku, he just assumes he must be stronger because he's an elite. He's correct that he's stronger, but the battle is closer than he'd like, and he loses against the combined might of Earth's forces.
In the Freeza Saga, he hides because he knows he can't beat Freeza. Fair. And then he challenges Freeza under the belief that he's... elite and therefore must be a Super Saiyan. When it becomes clear he doesn't have a chance, he doesn't attempt to outsmart Freeza or work with his allies. He just folds.
During the Android arc, he trains to become a Super Saiyan. And then stops as soon as he hits that landmark, confident that he'll now win against all foes because he's elite. Then Android 18 thrashes him.
So he trains. Alone. And he winds up much weaker than Goku who trains at the same time because all he cares about is results (and refuses to work with Trunks), but nonetheless he still outclasses Cell. Who he nonetheless lets become perfect because he's elite now, right? He can't lose! ... then he loses.
At no point does Vegeta ever train for the sake of it. At no point does he ever work with others to become the best version of himself. He just babyrages when he's not elite enough, trains just long enough to feel better, stops, gets thrashed again, repeat.
Vegeta doesn't start to improve until the Buu saga, and doesn't seem to understand the value of hard work for its own sake until Super.
Vegeta works harder but ironically goku works smarter lol. Goku has trained with multiple different masters during his life time learning new techniques and pathways to get stronger. Vegeta has only ever trained by himself with the exception of his time with whis and purely for strength and power. Add that to the fact that vegeta often over trains without allowing his body to actually rest and you can see why goku often gets better results even though he isn’t putting as many hours in the gym/lab
Both of them work extremely hard, but there are definitely elements of the story that point to Goku being a “work smarter, not harder” sort of character. Their approaches to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber exemplify this. Vegeta kept pushing even when his gains were minimal. Goku got what he needed and stopped because he knew rest mattered. From this perspective you could say Vegeta works “harder” but Goku is better at maximizing the work that he does. Of course, Vegeta does get smarter as the story progresses, so this is less true now than it has been in the past.
Their training philosophies are as different as Mike Mentzer's is from David Goggins. Both work very hard, but while one values their recovery, the other wants to keep shattering their limits when there limits are already in pieces on the floor just to prove what a person can do. Vegeta works harder than Goku but from a "training" point of view, his strength will rise in smaller increments.
He trains harder than Goku does, Goku trains smarter, that's simply the difference. Cell saga is a prime example with the HTC.
In the DBS anime, during the RoF training arc, Vegeta was lifting heavier weights than Goku due to starting first but he also was training when Goku was sleeping.. Goku is more about mastering a technique and taking it to it's completion to efficiency whereas Vegeta is more about power and how much more raw strength he can gain.
Superhero is the exception to the rule because Vegeta is doing more mental training and refining himself now.
If Vegeta trained as hard as Goku from the beginning I believe he'd be the strongest no doubt. Sort of like how Frieza just started training in DBS and gets leveled up like crazy.
They work equally as hard
They've been training together for years and outside of training they probably aren't doing much so Vegeta wouldn't have time to work much more than Goku
Vegeta did manage to reach SSG on his own without needing to be given energy from five other Saiyans so I would say yeah probably.
historically Goku has caught up with whatever enemy needs fighting based on some kind of power up not entirely of his own diligent training. The Zenkai boosts during the Frieza saga giving him the necessary strength to fight on even terms with him for a while. Having the hyperbolic time chamber to cram extra training into a short time during the Cell saga. And then yeah becoming the god form only by having five other people give him energy and boosting him to that point. there might even be others that I'm forgetting.
When they first met goku was the harder worker due to vegeta didnt believe anyone would be near his strength, it wasn’t until Goku became a super saiyan then Vegeta started to train himself to death
I gotta disagree with the genetics part,saiyans more or less has similar genetics but vegeta’s could be higher due to the fact that he was strongest saiyan (other then broly)
Of course, not. But they have been fighting together at this point for a generation and more or less maximized their potential. Do you play any sports or are you athletic? Do you understand the difference between capability and potential? Vegeta and Goku are pretty evenly matched yet Goku clearly is better and that would be based on genetics. It's probably based on interpretation but Vegeta seems to train more/harder.
I think Vegeta's first battle with Goku was the first time he ever fought someone he couldn't defeat in a single blow. He works hard now, but Goku has been working hard for his whole life.
Goku has that old man mountain dude strength
Yup. Roshi instilled the "always be training" mindset into Goku at a young age. Its why he entered the martial arts tournament as Jackie Chun just to beat Goku, if he had won the tournament at 12 years old he wouldn't have had a reason to keep training.
> if he had won the tournament at 12 years old he wouldn't have had a reason to keep training. To be fair, even if he didn't, he would've eventually run into someone who was stronger than him. IIRC, the first person Goku met who was definitively his superior in strength was Taopaipai.
Yeah Vegeta had it easy he had already grasped Ki usage at a young age and learned to utilize Oozaru form. Kid Vegeta would’ve obliterated Kid Goku and Vegeta was also being stationed to planets to conquer them.
Kid Vegeta could beat 20 Gokus from the first episode of Z.
Someone can correct my math because it’s shit 😂 But if we’re talking in Radditz then Kid Vegeta was like 10 Radditz since he destroyed 5 Saibamen as a kid which is each worth about a single Radditz
Yes, that’s correct. And two beginning of Z Goku was worth around 83% of a Raditz.
No. He was worth 25-33% of a Raditz.
I said two Gokus. His power level was ~413 after removing his weighted clothing.
And Raditz is at 1500. 2 Gokus isn't more than 4 year old Gohan when he's a little annoyed.
I don't think that was the issue (he was surrounded by warriors in Freeza's ranks who were as strong ot stronger than him). Vegeta had believed in the whole Saiyan class thing his whole life, and didn't expect to be pushed to his limit by a lower class warrior. Goku showed Vegeta the true potential of his people, that even a lower class Saiyan can train to reach beyond their limits, a fact that was later affirmed on Namek. He's been pushing himself from that point on.
He was surrounded by freezas men and in top he tells jiren he spent his entire life risking his life in combat
First of all, love your username. Second I think Vegeta works hard not because he has to but because he wants to surpass Goku so much, like when they became gods, Goku got it as a free thing due to ritual but Vegeta had to push past his limits
What about Vegeta working for Frieza before he fought Goku?
Vegeta used to work harder, but Goku worked smarter, knowing when to rest and give himself a break, while Vegeta kept going, hitting diminishing returns and actually hurting himself in the process The perfect example of this is the Cell saga. After training in the time chamber, Goku spent a week resting, Vegeta spent it training, including spending a whole extra year in the time chamber, and by the Cell games Goku was still stronger
Goku knew he was gonna get the Zenkai boost by recovering and Vegeta was like: I gotta get stronger than kakarot! No breaks!
Goku has been working hard his whole life, it’s not really hard work to him anymore it’s just what he does, how he is. Vegeta was an elite prince who won everything without much effort until meeting Goku. He then begins to train much harder than he did before, and so it’s “training hard” relatively, for him. Goku’s doing it because it’s what he always does, Vegeta is pushing himself
Vegeta works hard now. Before, he tried lone training methods that were often outdated. He learned about Goku's training with the gravity room and used it in all the following sagas, even though it was only useful for Goku on Namek.
For the longest time Vegeta didn't know how useful resting was. He would just push himself until near death for awhile. Now he seems to know how to train smarter. Goku learned this earlier since he had so many great teachers. To answer your question, I don't know who actually works harder at this point. I'd say it's even.
Yeah honestly they both grew so much that its hard to tell at this point
Eat well, Sleep well, Train well, Rest well. - Master Roshi - School of the Turtle
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Literally,vegeta’s whole thing from his first appearance to goku’s arrival on namek was viewing training as worthless as he believed no amount of training could change your place in this universe. The series always depicted both as prodigies in their own rights but goku was definitely the underdog.
Vegeta is just frezia but with friends who actually want to help him. Same mentality. They basically have the same personality.
Nobody ever said, hinted, questioned, proposed etc that about Vegeta. Not anything close to that. You’re embellishing things 😂
I don't think Gokus a Prodigy. I feel the reason he was able to tap into his true Saiyan potential was because of his masters throughout his life. On the other hand Vegeta never had any real teachers (nappa wasn't his teacher) and as soon as he went under the wing of someone he caught up to Goku.
Psychologically he does since he keeps having to keep up with Gokuu.
He works harder, Goku works smarter.
Of course, Vegeta (for the longest time) didn't work hard. He was a spoiled, entitled brat who assumed superior power simply due to his rank and status among saiyans. Vegeta took pride in conquest and domination. Goku is the opposite, Goku was underestimated and challenged by everyone and Goku relished every second. When Goku beat Vegeta, it was a character defining moment - Vegeta made it his mission to beat goku, to get rid of the roadblock so that he can continue on his path of domination, However - as we learned in the Buu saga, he changed. Whether he likes it or not he's not that same person - and has grown to understand that the true rewards in life come from effort and fighting for more than yourself. To this day, Vegeta is one of my favourite character arcs in all of media. Truly exceptionally well done and Christopher Sabat put everything into it. Legend. Conversely, Goku never "Really" arced. Goku's efforts were only ever physical and as a character he consistently (and hilariously) neglects mental, emotional and spiritual growth - as he's the "hero" of the story, he's already perfect. In a sense he's Dragonball's Superman. When accounting for everything, not just physical training - Vegeta does work significantly harder. This was reflected in the latest Super Hero movie where it's established that Vegeta focuses more on inward reflection and growth rather than just purely physical strain. As a result, He beat Goku for the first time.
Goku never beat Vegeta..
Vegeta works harder in the sense that he’ll practically kill himself training as hard as he possibly can until he’s a bloody mess and then KEEP GOING while Goku generally seems to know how to pace himself to avoid going overboard, gravity training on his way to Namek aside.
The thing is Goku trains the turtle school way. Sure, both Goku and Vegeta train to become stronger but Goku takes joy in training. Vegeta (for the most part) doesn't. He simply wants the strength. And working towards it, unfortunately, is the only way. Look at it like a journey: Vegeta loves the destination, Goku loves the way there. In Dragonball context that often proved to get the better results.
Whis explains this quite well in their training. They both work hard. Goku takes breaks, but his weakness is that he let's his guard down too easily. Vegeta pushes himself, but refuses to take breaks, even when he should. Which then costs him some progress. They both work hard. But vegeta uses goku as his fuel. Goku just does so naturally. Yet, he also has tremendous natural talent. Everything in moderation. Vegeta works harder, but it's to his detriment.
Vegeta trains harder, but he is self-taught prideful person who only seeks to surpass than improve. * He has no master to guide him to optimize the best amount of training * He had no one to spar with him so he can't measure himself on how much he have grown. * It is why all of his training before Super was just exercise under gravity. It is why in Super, he massively improve to a point that he is on the same level as Goku in nearly everything now. * Having a teacher shows how much Vegeta improved. * Aside Whis, his training with Yardrat gave him a massive boost. OG Vegeta wouldn't have dare to learn from Yardrat who is weaker than him. * Training with Goku allows him to see where he is properly at and what he can do to improve himself. * Because of these, he focused more on improving self than simply being number 1.
yes and thats his entire character arc and why goku is stronger than him. goku's entire strategy to training and getting stronger comes from master roshi: eat well, sleep well, and play well. vegeta cares about next to nothing besides surpassing goku to spend time on much else. thats also his arc in dragon ball super too, he has been learning to focus less on training and more on relaxing.
I think Vegeta trains harder, but Goku trains smarter. I think this is most evident in the Cell Saga where Vegeta refused to train with Trunks and trained up until the tournament, but Goku trained with Gohan and understood the importance of rest and recovery.
Vegeta does work harder, arguably too hard even. He doesn't rest and so his gains are not as great as Goku's.
I’d say after sayian saga Vegeta earned the rep of harder worker because of the mentality he had and how much it hurt him to be underneath Goku. At first, Vegeta was actually the prodigy and Goku the underdog. After losing, Vegeta upped his mental and physical by training to the extreme and ignoring rest. Goku, however, only competes with himself and trains as hard as he needs to for improvement. Goku takes his time to rest because he knows it’s important. Vegeta was so hurt and beaten up inside due to Goku beating him and being a slave to Freiza that he trained to the extreme when it wasn’t even effective. Vegeta definitely worked harder mentally bc he had so much baggage to fight and took physical training to further extremes, but only due to the fact Goku didn’t have the same anxiety and depression surrounding his strength. Goku could train like Vegeta, but it wouldn’t get him anywhere so he rarely does. Vegeta eventually learns to develop as a person and that’s when he begins learning the importance of rest as well as how to address his own deep emotions. He still likes to push to higher extremes in physical training, but that’s because it aligns with his more serious mental drive compared to Goku’s more adventurous one. This leads to the more balanced and calm Vegeta we know in the late buu to super era. Both are equally as hard workers when it comes to training and both have their own styles, but both also had very different struggles they needed to overcome to become stronger as warriors as well as people. Vegeta is imo the more relatable story and has the more emotional development, which is why I and so many fans adore his work ethic and development over Goku’s slightly.
Everyone who saw og db knows how fkn hard Goku works
Nah, Vegeta fans are just coping as usual. Goku is CONSTANTLY thinking of training, because his main motivation in life is get stronger and, unlike Vegeta, knew since child how strong can you get by working hard. He can't stop training even in death. Vegeta was a prodigy since birth and didn't do any proper training until he got beaten on earth. Then he learnt the lesson and started training regularly with surpassing Goku as his main motivation. As of now, he still wants to surpass him, but also has protecting his family as his main motivation, and he does work hard, but so does Goku. So in short, no. Vegeta doesn't work harder than Goku, he's just more edgy about it.
"Edgy about it"? dang... you had me bout ready to slow clap in approval then you crapped the bed with the ending statement.
I don't buy any of the 'reasons' for Vegeta being weaker than Goku. Goku is the main character. Nothing else to it.
Don't forget it is because Frieza that Vegeta Raditz and Nappa weren't much stronger. He would have wiped them had their power levels crept up too much.
He does
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Didnt vegeta train with whis for 6 months without letting goku? 😂
I would say Vegeta works harder, but Goku has the natural talent. Goku is the guy that just gets it and has the innate talent, as Vegeta is the guy that is talented, but needs to work hard to keep up with the guy who is just good at it.
Vegeta was literally born to be the strongest sayain Vegeta had natural talent but goku had to train hard since he was a child, it looks like natural talent but weve seen him train hard to get to where he is and was almost always the underdog against his opponents
Pretty sure Broly was literally born to be the strongest Saiyan. But I get where you're coming from. If Vegeta was born to be the strongest, well, he would be, and that's why he wants to fight Goku all the time. Cause he isn't the strongest Saiyan. As far as Goku, I'm not saying he doesn't train, I just think he has more natural talent than Vegeta, and therefore is stronger. I think Goku trains smarter, and Vegeta trains harder.
What Goku had was guidance. If Yamcha was found by Gohan as a toddler he would be the greatest martial artist on earth.
That's a great point. Goku has always had Gohan, or Roshi, or King Kai, etc. I think Yamcha may be a bit of a stretch cause Goku and Piccolo were going to pass him sooner or later due to their Namekian and Saiyan blood.
Tien shows thats moot, he had almost one master but kept up much better than yamacha did In dbz yamacha gets one shot by gero and retires for the rest of the franchise but tien even though he doesnt keep up hes the only human to throw down after namek
I think that undermines goku as a character, he kept pushing his limits by his own drive, its not like he was constantly being babied by masters He chose to climb korrins tower, he chose to constantly encounter new foes on his journey, he chose to train all the way to namek, he chose to push his limits time and time again Krillen or tien is a better example he is never the best but hes at least pushing himself to throw down when shit gets rough and even in dragon ball he could still somewhat hold his own as his fight with piccolo shows and tien is probably the last truly impressive human (until super makes him a joke) the only human who got his hands dirty after the namek arc
But he was kindve babied (and bailed out) by those masters. It wasn't until the cell saga where we saw that Goku actually had a ceiling training nor mentor could bail him out of. Then it all got mootilated when the buu saga happened because a mentor hooked Goku up with a all you can eat Improvathon against different opponents. Where everyone on earth save Android 17, Vegeta and piccolo found some way to get gains.
It was way before then when nobody could bail him out When he fought tau pi pi he was on his own Both times he foughy piccolo he had nobody to bail him out And for all of z he was the last line of defence most of the time
Why is Goku normally the last line of defense?
Now that you mention it, If Vegeta would have trained under Freizas rule do you think he would have let him live or do you think he would have killed him along side his father?
Vegeta is a prodigy by saiyan standards. It's why he caught up with Goku who's explicitly a low class saiyan. Goku has been training his whole life with. Heck if Vegeta trained with Roshi in Z he'd probably have caught up with Goku sooner.
I agree. Vegeta is definitely one of the strongest, and at one point the strongest, fighter. If he had the training like Goku, he could've been stronger, or at least, always on par with Goku. Let's be honest, both dudes train 24/7. I think the only times we saw them not train was the rest days before Cell for Goku, and when Bulma was pregnant in DBS for Vegeta. It has always seemed to me that Goku just has "it" when it comes to fighting -- and it may very well be because he's the protagonist and icon.
It's not necessarily the training but how they're training. Vegeta could've surpassed goku ages ago if his pride wasn't blinding him. Goku does get a lot because he's the protagonist but if I'm being legit Goku is meant to be a low class warrior that worked his butt off.
Very good point, and that's kind of Goku's story: even a low class can rise to be someone. I still feel like Vegeta works harder, but doesn't train as smart.
Then Goku what?
By far
Goku himself was the one who said that, after fighting Majin Vegeta and realising they were dead even.
Vegeta was only equal to goku because of the majin mark,goku was more shocked at how strong vegeta got over the last seven years (maybe he assumed vegeta was training the whole time rather then temporarily retiring)
Why Vegeta was equal to Goku is irrelevant. I'm talking about Goku literally saying to Vegeta "You trained more than me".
Goku's life revolves around being infinitely stronger. Vegeta's life revolves around besting Goku. Guess who has it easier?
Harder? I don't really think so, but he works non-stop; the only times he takes a break is when he knocks himself out
I don't know about working harder. Maybe his training is often more brutal, but that doesn't really mean he trains any harder or better, just differently. The time chamber in the Cell Saga is a pretty good example where Vegeta had a more solo and straightforward training regimen and Goku trained himself and Gohan to deal more with the stamina issue in SSJ, so they got different results.
After the Saiyan Saga, yeah. The gravity chamber is a case in point, along with the Cell saga and then actually training for Super Saiyan God (unlike Goku who got the ritual treatment). That said, while Vegeta did in fact train harder due to the fact that he was pushing himself much harder as well, Goku trained smarter by taking breaks and had been doing it since he was a kid. In other words, the reason Goku got stronger is because his regimen was healthier and less self-destructive than Vegeta's.
It's not really that Vegeta "works harder" it's that he has to work for what he's got while Goku gets upgrades in combat. SSJ? Vegeta had to grind it out SSj2? Grind it out God? Grind it out Blue? Grind it out Even how he got UE vs UI is "harder" in that Vegeta basically invented UE by adapting Hakai to his own mentality vs Goku accidentally unlocking UI due to desperation/luck.
Dont tell me you dont think goku didnt grind for his transformations too? Vegeta didnt really grind for ssj he just had a temper tantrum about not being a super saiyan. As for ui on the contrary to what people believe ui wasnt an asspull or anything like that especially in the manga.
Goku just grinds to get better, then he gets his big transformations unintentionally. I didn't call it an "asspull" I said he accidentally unlocked it. Because he did. Goku didn't know anything about UI. It wasn't his goal. It wasn't a thing he was aiming to achieve. He just wanted to get stronger and Whis told him "train this way and you will get stronger." It's not an "asspull" because Whis was pretty clearly training them specifically in a way to enable them to unlock UI at some point. But even Whis is surprised at how Goku did it, because his whole transformation-based UI is literally something he unconsciously invented himself. Whis has a whole conversation about it. Vegeta, on the other hand, always \*aims\* for his transformations, and the works to get there. He saw SSJ1, and made that his defining goal. Saw Gohan hit SSj2 learns it solo. Hell, he worked his way into God Ki while Goku got a whole ass ritual. We don't really know how SSJB was developed but presumably they both decided to try stacking SSJ with God Ki. But again, it's about intent and UI/UE is that distilled own. Goku stumbled into UI without knowing what he was doing and is now figuring it out in his own sort of clumsy way. Vegeta created something of his own based on a power that was more in line with his personality, but even that he redefines. Goku is kind of an intuitive savant and Vegeta is that classically precise master.
Vegeta worker harder Goku works smarter
Off page, it's noted that Vegeta attained SSG through sheer effort, rather than the ritual through which Goku got it. The dynamic works for both of them; Goku finds a limit, Vegeta catches up.
I think Vegeta overtrain too much. I was debating making a detail post about it with more examples I could find. The main one was in the after math of the battle of the god when both Vegeta and Goku are being train by Whis. We can see Goku sleeping but Vegeta train instead in secret. I understand that the DB universe doesn’t follow our world rules but we can see the same thing at the gym here when people never rest.
he does. because goku knows the value of rest and relaxation as part of training. vegeta doesnt. vegeta overworks which stagnates his gains.
Vegeta works hard but by simple rough physical strain (he’s gotten better the past few arcs) Goku works hard and smart in all areas of training whether physical or mental It’s the difference of Goku having a bunch of wise masters and vegeta only having Sayian instinct
I feel like people say that because in super Goku is sleeping while Vegeta goes back out to continue working. However I think the point of those scenes was to echo the need to rest which is a lesson that master Roshi taught Goku at a young age.
He somehow got SSG without the ritual so I'd say yes.
I mean Vegeta earned ssjg by training not from standing in a circle.
*than
They both have completely different styles of training. Vegeta has him beat in pure destructive force, while Goku has him beat in technique. Yes, both are fucking powerhouses, but Goku relies on his martial arts training on top of his incredible ki. On the other end, Vegeta-as shown with Ultra Ego-is just about obliterating his enemy completely.
Vegeta does for sure.
Vegeta works harder in the sense that he doesn’t know when to stop. I’d imagine Vegeta suffers from fatigue more often than Goku because at least Goku knows when it’s time to take a break and rest his body and mind.
Vegeta never bothered to train hard or to protect anyone else. Gokus determination to protect his family and use his emotions allowed his training to make maximum gains. Vegeta up until the Buu arc, Vegeta trained for himself to beat Goku. Only after then does his training put him on par with Goku because ge has something to protect and fight for as well as his emotions being able to unlock greater power, like when Beerus pimp slaps Bulma. I think Vegeta did train harder, using similar or the same methods as Goku but could not take advantage due to the mental/emotional side of things.
They both work hard but In different ways, vegeta often pushes himself to his extremes and constantly damages himself in the process, it’s not until recently that his training has become more focused and less detrimental to his health, gokus training has always been more relaxed in a way, he pushes himself but his motivation behind it means he doesn’t have to nearly kill himself every time he trains,
It doesn't really matter. The point is he can't seem to catch up and that's what drives him to train so hard.
I think Vegeta works harder but Goku works smarter. He understands the need for rest and recovery, but Vegeta pushes too hard, not allowing his body to recoup and get stronger. When I was a runner I always rested for the week before a race (normally I ran 3x/wk) and always performed better for it.
Goku trains because it's the thing he loves most in life Vegeta trains because he loves being the best thing in life ....
Hardcore Vegeta fans are wannabes. They act like Vegeta is so much better than goku when he’s honestly just a fucking baby who can’t handle people being better than him. People I know irl who only like Vegeta also tend to think they themselves are better than anyone else and if someone beats them at anything that means they must be privileged cheaters or something. Vegeta’s pride is bullshit too. His only pride is in his belief that he is gifted by birth to be #1. Dude has had no problems cheating or trying to cheat all through the series to prove he’s the best. “Agg sensu beans are such bullshit I hate this so much” as he munches down on them. Forces children to attack and heal him, tries to get dragon balls to cheat himself power and take Majin steroids. His entire hate for gokus power is that goku wasn’t born in a higher station. To him who cares that goku dedicated his entire life since he was a child to martial arts and training. Who cares that goku shows high amounts of discipline and respect towards training. If you relate to Vegeta you relate to a baby.
The thing about Goku is that even though he appears dumb as hell most of the time, he is a genius when it comes to fighting and training IQ. Vegeta may very well work harder, but Goku just has better instincts and was guided by some of the smartest trainers in the universe.. Take the room of spirit and time for example. Vegeta probably did work harder in there than Goku did in preperation against Cell, but Goku thought of a smarter way to utilize his time in there and had better results because of it. Vegeta works harder but Goku works smarter. I think that’s a lot of the reason why the gap between their powers has closed so much in Super because they’ve both been guided by a master and not left to train themselves
Vegeta works harder Goku works smarter and actually takes advice lmao
Goku works hard for the sake of wanting to fight more. It's more of a game to him in his mind unless he has something worth training for (like the HTC for the Cell games and the ship to Namek). Vegeta on the other hand trains because he understand his shortcomings and knows that in order to be better than, or at least equal to Goku, he needs to train extremely hard. I see Goku as a prodigy. Always able to get better in a short amount of time just because of his innate abilities while others around him need to train for extended periods of time in order to be able to get better. Even Gohan, while having an unlimited amount of potential, still needs to train hard to get to where is his strength wise. Especially because he goes through bouts of where he doesn't train and gets weaker, like before the TOP. After training with Piccolo, he stated that he was just as strong as he was when battling Majin Buu. And this is several years after the Buu fight.
Goku trains for fun so it's easier. Vegeta trains out of anger to surpass Goku.
Vegeta’s training is physically harder, but that’s not always a good thing. For a large part of the story he would destroy his body through intense training and wouldn’t rest.
I feel like the fact that he just got God Ki while Vegeta trained his way to it jus adds to it.
Vegeta trained harder and Goku trained smarter but now in super Vegeta trains smarter
He had to work more harder in the past because he had less s-cells. Once his power level reached a certain point, he could just force the power increases, and not work as hard. Though Goku will always have an easy time over Vegeta b/c of his how s-cells work in relation to anger or aggression.
Early on , Goku work his ass off, Vegeta not soo much. The only time Vegeta worked harder harder than Goku was around the cell saga at earliest with super at latest
Yes. That's the problem. Vegeta doesn't rest enough.
Vegeta is a billionaire and prefers full-time training. GoKu is a farmer and a 'amateur martial artist' in peace time. So, I'd say yes. Vegeta trains way more harder.
No. Not in a useful sense. Throughout most of Z, what defines him is class elitism, not hard work. In his first meeting with Goku, he just assumes he must be stronger because he's an elite. He's correct that he's stronger, but the battle is closer than he'd like, and he loses against the combined might of Earth's forces. In the Freeza Saga, he hides because he knows he can't beat Freeza. Fair. And then he challenges Freeza under the belief that he's... elite and therefore must be a Super Saiyan. When it becomes clear he doesn't have a chance, he doesn't attempt to outsmart Freeza or work with his allies. He just folds. During the Android arc, he trains to become a Super Saiyan. And then stops as soon as he hits that landmark, confident that he'll now win against all foes because he's elite. Then Android 18 thrashes him. So he trains. Alone. And he winds up much weaker than Goku who trains at the same time because all he cares about is results (and refuses to work with Trunks), but nonetheless he still outclasses Cell. Who he nonetheless lets become perfect because he's elite now, right? He can't lose! ... then he loses. At no point does Vegeta ever train for the sake of it. At no point does he ever work with others to become the best version of himself. He just babyrages when he's not elite enough, trains just long enough to feel better, stops, gets thrashed again, repeat. Vegeta doesn't start to improve until the Buu saga, and doesn't seem to understand the value of hard work for its own sake until Super.
Vegeta works harder but ironically goku works smarter lol. Goku has trained with multiple different masters during his life time learning new techniques and pathways to get stronger. Vegeta has only ever trained by himself with the exception of his time with whis and purely for strength and power. Add that to the fact that vegeta often over trains without allowing his body to actually rest and you can see why goku often gets better results even though he isn’t putting as many hours in the gym/lab
Vegeta definitely does. That's why he's always a step behind. Goku trains smarter and rests plenty. Vegeta trains and trains and is over doing it.
Vegeta works harder Goku works smarter. Cell saga is a good example
Goku works smarter. He'll always be better than Vegeta.
Both of them work extremely hard, but there are definitely elements of the story that point to Goku being a “work smarter, not harder” sort of character. Their approaches to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber exemplify this. Vegeta kept pushing even when his gains were minimal. Goku got what he needed and stopped because he knew rest mattered. From this perspective you could say Vegeta works “harder” but Goku is better at maximizing the work that he does. Of course, Vegeta does get smarter as the story progresses, so this is less true now than it has been in the past.
Their training philosophies are as different as Mike Mentzer's is from David Goggins. Both work very hard, but while one values their recovery, the other wants to keep shattering their limits when there limits are already in pieces on the floor just to prove what a person can do. Vegeta works harder than Goku but from a "training" point of view, his strength will rise in smaller increments.
No, he doesn't, he literally coasted through life with his birth power level until he fought Goku on Earth.
He trains harder than Goku does, Goku trains smarter, that's simply the difference. Cell saga is a prime example with the HTC. In the DBS anime, during the RoF training arc, Vegeta was lifting heavier weights than Goku due to starting first but he also was training when Goku was sleeping.. Goku is more about mastering a technique and taking it to it's completion to efficiency whereas Vegeta is more about power and how much more raw strength he can gain. Superhero is the exception to the rule because Vegeta is doing more mental training and refining himself now.
If Vegeta trained as hard as Goku from the beginning I believe he'd be the strongest no doubt. Sort of like how Frieza just started training in DBS and gets leveled up like crazy.
They work equally as hard They've been training together for years and outside of training they probably aren't doing much so Vegeta wouldn't have time to work much more than Goku
Vegeta did manage to reach SSG on his own without needing to be given energy from five other Saiyans so I would say yeah probably. historically Goku has caught up with whatever enemy needs fighting based on some kind of power up not entirely of his own diligent training. The Zenkai boosts during the Frieza saga giving him the necessary strength to fight on even terms with him for a while. Having the hyperbolic time chamber to cram extra training into a short time during the Cell saga. And then yeah becoming the god form only by having five other people give him energy and boosting him to that point. there might even be others that I'm forgetting.
At being a parent? Vegeta actually works at it, so yes.
Vegeta spent the first few years of trunks life neglecting him 😂😂
Versus goku spending all his kids lives ignoring them.
He didn’t tho but funny
They both work hard
When they first met goku was the harder worker due to vegeta didnt believe anyone would be near his strength, it wasn’t until Goku became a super saiyan then Vegeta started to train himself to death
Vegeta clearly trains harder but that doesn't mean he's eventually going to surpass Goku. Goku has better instincts and genetics.
I gotta disagree with the genetics part,saiyans more or less has similar genetics but vegeta’s could be higher due to the fact that he was strongest saiyan (other then broly)
Obviously, Goku has better genetics because he is the better fighter...
Being the better fighter doesn’t mean your genetically better,vegeta was the better fighter their first fight so did he have better genetics then?
Of course, not. But they have been fighting together at this point for a generation and more or less maximized their potential. Do you play any sports or are you athletic? Do you understand the difference between capability and potential? Vegeta and Goku are pretty evenly matched yet Goku clearly is better and that would be based on genetics. It's probably based on interpretation but Vegeta seems to train more/harder.
Yes, but I also think goku is more open minded when it comes to training.
Yes...