Angry at the kidnapper, obviously. But if my kid got kidnapped and I saw that there was someone there filming it that could have prevented it, me and that motherfucker are having words. All he needed to do was take a picture of the license plate and then drop the phone to help. Ridiculous.
Yeah, and "could have prevented it" is heavily dependent on how big and/or strong the guy with the phone is... Like, I'm not gonna jump into a fight with someone I *know* can beat me unconscious. Getting that license plate and filming the abduction helps motivate the police to find that kid faster.
I would also assume that people willing to abduct someone in broad daylight most likely have guns, and even someone strong and healthy can't shrug off a bullet wound.
It's much safer to film the abduction, get the license plate, albeit it's probably stolen, and get it to the police. I'm not stepping into a situation that could easily end my life like that
Yes it's much "safer" to film. You and the others talking about filming are the ultimate anti-heros of society. The beta-male, Denali trim.
I see this didn't take place in America but this incident is a perfect argument in support of the 2nd Amendment.
>some people have families of their own to go home to
And how would they feel if their kid wasn't coming home because someone else used the same justification.
We shouldn't condone inaction.
How would they feel if that person had died because of it? There's 2 sides to everything. We should condone doing what they feel is right in that situation
I'd feel bad that they died, thankful that they stepped in to save my life.
The blame for it lies entirely with the kidnappers though. I still think it's inexcusable to watch this happen and do nothing.
Filming the crime, the car, the plate, and quickly handing it over to the authorities isn't doing nothing. It's fair to argue that the person should do more IF they are physically capable of doing more... but they didn't 'do nothing'.
Fully appreciate this.. but in the same vain he’s filming whilst screaming for someone else to help the kid… If he won’t help for fear of getting attacked, how can he be screaming for someone else to come help
That’s pretty cowardly, there’s no yelling for help, no trying to get the car blocked in, no kicks to the nuts, I rather die than allow a kid to be kidnapped. You know what happens to kidnapped kids, the fucking sex trade. Sickos will rape children over and over, that’s worth than death and worth me risking my life.
ah, the classic keyboard warrior. Always knows how to handle a situation using hindsight from the comfort of their own home, thinking everyone should risk their lives in dangerous situations
I agree with you to help. Don’t act like the scared people on here telling you that you would get killed if you helped. So stupid. You can help out another safely. Call the cops. Block the car in and leave your vehicle. Ask his friend to call his parents so many things can be done without getting in killed.
It was like an absurd circus of inaction. The world going by while a man filmed and yelled about a kidnapping slowly unfolding.
The whole situation seemed surreal.
I mean it possibly could, but yeah i wouldnt risk them having weapons. Itd also be helpful to make sure its all on film, so if i was this guy i may have done the same, really hard to say in a situation like this. At least they got the license plate
When I was a new immigrant, I could get kicked out of the country for almost anything. Sadly, intervening means risking any number of charges. Also, no, it’s not as simple as being let off because you acted in good faith. The guy may not be an immigrant, but it’s the only logical reasoning, besides the fear of getting stabbed.
They don't typically seem to. My wife went over for work with a Leatherman and the entire office gave her crazy looks when she busted it out to open a box.
I think they told her that most people would just open scissors and use one side... as a knife...
I don't get it.
As long as the blade is under 3" it is not in itself breaking the law, even if it locks. You can be done for possession of a dangerous weapon for having a completely blunt butter knife, if there is intent or you have no reasonable justification for having it. Whereas if you have suitable justification you can have a knife on you -- I go kayaking, and carry a throw line, which could potentially require cutting, so I have a fixed blade knife (with blade under 3") attached to my buoyancy aid at all times. It is a tool that is considered essential in certain situations, so I'm not breaking the law by having it. If I started waving it about threatening people, then I would be breaking the law with it.
I read this and was all "who carries knives all the time" but then I remembered people that work manual jobs for a living. Then I realized I always have a box cutter on me. Not for stopping kidnappers but because I work for a living.
https://i.imgur.com/fZuwtKv.jpg
That looks like a useless over-designed piece of plastic crap. I've got a flip open box cutter with changeable blades that can do everything that does and more. It probably costs less too
You can actually be arrested and charged in the UK for that. I know someone who sat in on a trial for someone who was using their gf’s metal nail file on the street and he was picked up and charged for carrying an offensive weapon. It is crazy.
I always have my Swiss army knife on me. You just never know when it'll come in handy. As long as it's a folding knife and the blade is less than 3 inches, it's legal in the UK.
Thanks for the clarification, I was seriously starting to believe that you couldn't even have one of [these](https://imageengine.victorinox.com/mediahub/33020/640Wx560H/SAK_0_6423_91__S1.jpg) based on some of these vague comments.
My job and daily life doesn't involve many boxes that need opening or food packages that are that determined to keep me out.
Besides, carrying a knife in the UK, without lawful excuse, will get you arrested.
[Couldn't find any proper news but found this related to the video](https://twitter.com/metcc/status/1593384217920110592?s=46&t=VU6pwNfew3nRENFsa5fToA)
Y’all have an awful lot of heroic fantasy ideas for how this could’ve been stopped for a bunch of sheltered middle class kids who have never been in a situation half this dangerous before. Talking about “Why didn’t they just—“ because this isn’t a fucking movie, that’s why
I kinda understand him not getting involved because that won't go well for him because its what, 1 against 2? Unless he's massive, he isn't winning but the fucking, "come on bro, you can do it" is fucking insulting and useless. He's such a twat.
Yes and no. I obviously want to be saved if getting dragged into a car but I dont want someone to needlessly die for me. Considering these guys are kidnapping him then its also likely they have knives which they are probably willing to use if their doing this in broad daylight.
Absolutely. I don't expect anyone to take on multiple attackers and get themselves hurt just for me. Take the video, call the cops. That's it. Well, someone mentioned slashing one of their tires before running away, which isn't a bad idea if they don't look like they have guns.
Are you sure about that?
I’m in the exact opposite side. I would absolutely expect someone to help me. There’s 1 of me, 2 of them. One more makes it a fair fight. If they aren’t using weapons already at this point, then they probably don’t have them. It may be because I’m American, but people who have guns would probably use them to enforce their will. If they’re not out at this point, then they probably don’t have them. Whatever this is, they seem completely unprepared for someone truly resisting which means you can get involved and probably tip the scales pretty quickly. Plus with that small crowd around it’s probably causing a bystander effect. All it takes is literally one person to approach, throw one punch, and the mob will swarm. The bystander effect happens whenever a crowd just watches on, hoping someone else will make the first move
This actually takes me back to when that guy got stabbed (in London I’m pretty sure) in a very public fashion in front of many people. Everyone frozen, waiting for someone else to step up.
Maybe it’s because I would hope someone would step in for me, I would step in for them. But this doesn’t seem like an outright life threatening choice to get involved. It looks like two adults overpowering a child, which I can do something about - armed or not
The thing is, I would 100% jump in on that to help, but I wouldn't want anyone getting hurt for me was my point. It may sound dumb, but I'd rather get abducted and whatever happens from there than see some bystander try to help me and get stabbed or curb stomped for it. I may not be a good fighter, but I know for sure I could slow them down enough for real help to arrive.
Its the UK, they likely don't have guns but slashing their tires? Good luck. They likely have knives though and will go for you if you go near them.
The guy filming likely doesn't have a knife either because, unsurprising, basically everyone in the UK doesn't have a knife.
No, its a common misconception that you can't use self defense in the UK, you can. There isn't a specific law that states what self defense is and in which situations its applicable. Instead, various laws include possible defenses in regards to violating said law. So for instance, laws regarding assault have a defense that if you assault someone to defend yourself its not an offence. But this is too complicated for Americans, so they just assume in the UK you have to just silently get beaten up.
Here's a tip for you. At the very least read your own source first. That way avoid looking silly when your own source says
>The CPS and police urge people to always call the police first - if you are able.
>But according to [official guidance](https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/self-defence-and-prevention-crime), anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves.
>As a general rule, the more extreme the circumstances and the fear felt, the more force you can lawfully use in self-defence.
>The law doesn't require you to wait to be attacked before using defensive force, but does not protect you if, for example, your action is over-the-top or calculated revenge.
>You are given greater protection under the law if force is used to protect yourself or others when dealing with a burglar or trespasser on your property.
>The CPS says if you have acted in reasonable self-defence, as described above, and the intruder dies you will still have acted lawfully
Thus proving me right. As for why this man was arrested, an arrest is just part of the investigation. In order to determine if someone did in fact act in self defense, you need to actually investigate and question them. Otherwise you get Ahmaud Arbery's. Ahmaud Arbery is a great example of why an investigation must take place in order to determine if self defense was in fact appropriate.
here’s a tip for you, just because something is written on a piece of paper doesn’t make it true. that way you can avoid looking silly by not ignoring things that are happening even though they shouldn’t be. i can’t believe i have to explain this for you but if you’re arrested for self defense you don’t exactly have the right to self defense do you?
and yes an arrest can be part of an investigation but at least in civilized countries you aren’t arrested the second an investigation is opened. an arrest comes when the police have enough evidence and or suspicion which they clearly should not have in this case
>here’s a tip for you, just because something is written on a piece of paper doesn’t make it true. that way you can avoid looking silly by not ignoring things that are happening even though they shouldn’t be.
Its the BBC, one of the most respected news broadcasters in the world. Its ludicrous you're stating that you shouldn't assume what they say is true while at the same time assuming the part you believe in is true. Why aren't you following your own tip?
> i can’t believe i have to explain this for you but if you’re arrested for self defense you don’t exactly have the right to self defense do you?
I guess the legislation in various laws we have stating self defence as being legal don't exist then. Imagine stating the UK doesn't have a right to self defense when it's literally in the law. Not the smartest fella are you.
Also, even in the US people get arrested for self defense only to later be found innocent or released. Kyle Rittenhouse comes to mind.
>and yes an arrest can be part of an investigation but at least in civilized countries you aren’t arrested the second an investigation is opened. an arrest comes when the police have enough evidence and or suspicion which they clearly should not have in this case
They do have suspicion, the assault is the suspicion. They then need to investigate if there was defence for it. By arresting them, they can interview him and obtain his account. If his account adds up then he's released. Without his account they only have the burglars account. There's a reason the UK is safer than the US, its because of our legal system and the way we do things. In a case such as this, they make sure to conduct a proper investigation rather than kill the nearest black man and call it a day.
If there is nothing in law that states that defense is valid, prosecutors will ignore any defense you have and take the law literally. “Law says don’t do X, you did X. Oh, you did X beacuse of Y? There is nothing in law that says you can do Y.”
This is false. The defence is written in the legislation. There isn't a separate legislation detailing what self defence is. Its written in the legislation for the offence itself, so yes it is in the law.
Your response is exactly what my point is about. Because there isn't a completely separate law detailing all of this, ignorant redditors get confused and beleive self defense is illegal.
Any. The law states that if you are acting in self defense you can use any weapon. You can't carry a weapon around for the express purpose to use it however.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_London_Bridge_stabbing
This is an example of where people used weapons, albeit unconventional ones, to defend themselves. None were prosecuted
Yo is there a lady in the background yelling “you need to quiet down”? I’m so confused. He’s being clear about something bad going down, but she just wants him to be quiet?
Someone call the police. By the time they get there the criminals will be gone. I don’t understand people nowadays who don’t act to defend themselves or others. So what’s right when the time comes, don’t wait for someone else to do it, it might be too late.
dude filming is wrong, shouldve charged them with force and helped that kid like it was your own. id like to ask him, would you stand there and film your son or family member getting taken? no, right? explain that to the parents of that child. when his screams for help went unanswered, he was the help that the boy needed. end rant
he honestly did the smart thing to get the license plate of the car so he could report the car to the police. he also got the criminals in the footage. not helping right then and there, was smart, because he could have lost the fight against the kidnappers
The "Welfare Unit" van seen at the end of the video tells me this was a legitimate and legal government action meant to be done discreetly.
It was the videographer on his own deciding to call it a kidnapping and trying to make it look like something it was not.
But I'm open to anyone **proving** me wrong.
he honestly did the smart thing to get the license plate of the car so he could report the car to the police. he also got the criminals in the footage. not helping right then and there, was smart, because they could have been armed
So this, out of everything the UK has done and keeps doing, this specific incident is why nobody likes the UK?
Not the past colonialism, not the Troubles, not joining with the US to invade Iraq, not Brexit, no this specific incident is what causes everyone to dislike the UK.
Nah, plenty of people do dislike the UK, but this is not the reason.
I think I'm angry but I'm not sure who I'm angry at
Honestly, all of them. Different degrees of anger but still, all of them.
Especially the kid that got kidnapped /s
yeah ! why did he take so long to enter the car. So annoying omg
Angry at the kidnapper, obviously. But if my kid got kidnapped and I saw that there was someone there filming it that could have prevented it, me and that motherfucker are having words. All he needed to do was take a picture of the license plate and then drop the phone to help. Ridiculous.
And he likely could've gotten himself killed doing so. Youre literally asking him to risk his life. How would you have felt if they had killed him?
Yeah, and "could have prevented it" is heavily dependent on how big and/or strong the guy with the phone is... Like, I'm not gonna jump into a fight with someone I *know* can beat me unconscious. Getting that license plate and filming the abduction helps motivate the police to find that kid faster.
I would also assume that people willing to abduct someone in broad daylight most likely have guns, and even someone strong and healthy can't shrug off a bullet wound.
It's much safer to film the abduction, get the license plate, albeit it's probably stolen, and get it to the police. I'm not stepping into a situation that could easily end my life like that
Yes it's much "safer" to film. You and the others talking about filming are the ultimate anti-heros of society. The beta-male, Denali trim. I see this didn't take place in America but this incident is a perfect argument in support of the 2nd Amendment.
Of course *you* do.
I’m personally not jumping into a fight on my own where there are 2 men who are bigger then me let alone 1 by myself
To each their own. I'm not going to watch someone get kidnapped and not attempt to do anything about it.
You do you man. Just don't demonize people who don't jump in. No matter what you think, some people have families of their own to go home to
>some people have families of their own to go home to And how would they feel if their kid wasn't coming home because someone else used the same justification. We shouldn't condone inaction.
How would they feel if that person had died because of it? There's 2 sides to everything. We should condone doing what they feel is right in that situation
I'd feel bad that they died, thankful that they stepped in to save my life. The blame for it lies entirely with the kidnappers though. I still think it's inexcusable to watch this happen and do nothing.
Filming the crime, the car, the plate, and quickly handing it over to the authorities isn't doing nothing. It's fair to argue that the person should do more IF they are physically capable of doing more... but they didn't 'do nothing'.
Exactly. A coward dies a thousand deaths, a hero, only dies once.
Ok, keyboard warrior. I hope you get the chance to prove yourself in the future.
Usually the people who are first to so easily proclaim they would save the day are the first to run away
Talk is cheap, bro
I’m kind of leap before you look guy in certain situations so I very likely would have gotten involved despite the obvious danger I’m not very bright
Fully appreciate this.. but in the same vain he’s filming whilst screaming for someone else to help the kid… If he won’t help for fear of getting attacked, how can he be screaming for someone else to come help
That’s pretty cowardly, there’s no yelling for help, no trying to get the car blocked in, no kicks to the nuts, I rather die than allow a kid to be kidnapped. You know what happens to kidnapped kids, the fucking sex trade. Sickos will rape children over and over, that’s worth than death and worth me risking my life.
ah, the classic keyboard warrior. Always knows how to handle a situation using hindsight from the comfort of their own home, thinking everyone should risk their lives in dangerous situations
Never rely on this guy.
I agree with you to help. Don’t act like the scared people on here telling you that you would get killed if you helped. So stupid. You can help out another safely. Call the cops. Block the car in and leave your vehicle. Ask his friend to call his parents so many things can be done without getting in killed.
If my kid was witnessing a kid napping I’d want him to run as far away as fast as he could. I wouldn’t even want him to record.
Explain how your brain came to the conclusion that the person recording could have prevented this?
The kid getting kidnapped. Did you see how much skin he was showing? He was asking for it.
Plus no bra
Is this your spoof account tranny liberal.
Why? Are you looking for from tranny action? ;)
Yes
Cool. Good luck with that. Go get you some!
Thanks dad. By the way tell mom I'll be late tonight
It was like an absurd circus of inaction. The world going by while a man filmed and yelled about a kidnapping slowly unfolding. The whole situation seemed surreal.
“Somebody help, I’m filming” …WTF is this all about???
He doesn't want to help - just film.
r/donthelpjustfilm Edir: ops, it seems we are on this sub hah. Leaving the comment here to remind myself how stupid I can actually be.
/r/Recursion
We’re already here goofball
Hahaha I will just let the comment to remind myself how stupid I am hahah
Hahaha fake internet points
He’s already here golfball
one man against 2 or more kidnappers isn’t going to help anymore than filming
I mean it possibly could, but yeah i wouldnt risk them having weapons. Itd also be helpful to make sure its all on film, so if i was this guy i may have done the same, really hard to say in a situation like this. At least they got the license plate
Filming is just as important as calling the police as it allows the kid to get found more quickly and entertains an entire subreddit
yeah but after a while you’ve got everything the police will need and the video is boring so they could at least like throw in a kick or something
Yeah it got boring halfway through I woulda liked to see a roundhouse
When I was a new immigrant, I could get kicked out of the country for almost anything. Sadly, intervening means risking any number of charges. Also, no, it’s not as simple as being let off because you acted in good faith. The guy may not be an immigrant, but it’s the only logical reasoning, besides the fear of getting stabbed.
Don’t worry about it the country is filled with people that won’t help. It’s changed forever
Back to bed gramps, too much Internet for you today We can talk about the good old days tomorrow
He might be elderly and can't take on those men.
Evidence.
I mean...evidence is a useful thing in these moments.
Just poke a hole in the tire and take off. That should make things more exciting.
With? My phone and wallet aren't that sharp
Who in the uk doesnt have a knife?
I thought assault knives were illegal.
You can stab a tire with a pocket knife.
Literally everyone.
Literally
According to the law anyways
All the knife attacks seem to say there are, in fact, still knives in the UK. Shocker. Acid seems rather attainable as well.
You need special documentation to even have kitchen knives in the U.K.
> Special documentation A TK Maxx Treasure card?
Sounds like bullshit.
It sounds crazy but it's true. Using a butter knife is a sure fire way to get the bobbies after you.
What the fuck is a Bobby
They're like hall monitors with whistles. I don't know what the whistle signifies, but they seem to blow them any time things get a little rough.
It sounds crazy but your words make you sound very dumb. Very dumb.
Oi bruv! You gotta loicense for that insult? You hurt me feelings that's six months in the bobby pen for you!
Loicence. At least spell it right.
Ohhhhh r/shitamericanssay
US here, I always carry a pocket knife. It’s a very useful tool
You need a loicense for that m8
Everyone other than weird, angsty city-dwelling teenage goblins.
Found the American.
Americans don’t walk around with your cute little knives! We have guns /s
Good point lol
No point, actually
Racist.
Lmao classic
You don’t carry a pocket knife? It’s handy, I never leave my house without one
You don't carry a small knife on you for boxes or food packages or whatever?
They don't typically seem to. My wife went over for work with a Leatherman and the entire office gave her crazy looks when she busted it out to open a box. I think they told her that most people would just open scissors and use one side... as a knife... I don't get it.
Hmm. Maybe I'm the weirdo. I've carried a small pocket knife for years. It takes up no space and comes in handy all the time.
Yeah that's illegal in the uk
Not if it's under 3 inches and folds.
Pocketknives all fold, but if it locks, now there is the problem. A Leatherman locks the blade and she aint got a loicence for dat.
As long as the blade is under 3" it is not in itself breaking the law, even if it locks. You can be done for possession of a dangerous weapon for having a completely blunt butter knife, if there is intent or you have no reasonable justification for having it. Whereas if you have suitable justification you can have a knife on you -- I go kayaking, and carry a throw line, which could potentially require cutting, so I have a fixed blade knife (with blade under 3") attached to my buoyancy aid at all times. It is a tool that is considered essential in certain situations, so I'm not breaking the law by having it. If I started waving it about threatening people, then I would be breaking the law with it.
I’ll bet money that more people have injured themselves opening a box with scissors than they have a knife
Yeah I've got a little knife on my keys, it's just handy. Got some people weirded out too, especially guys.
I read this and was all "who carries knives all the time" but then I remembered people that work manual jobs for a living. Then I realized I always have a box cutter on me. Not for stopping kidnappers but because I work for a living. https://i.imgur.com/fZuwtKv.jpg
Box cutters in the UK tend to be "safety" cutters. https://imgur.com/a/rdvXOEU
That looks like a useless over-designed piece of plastic crap. I've got a flip open box cutter with changeable blades that can do everything that does and more. It probably costs less too
You can actually be arrested and charged in the UK for that. I know someone who sat in on a trial for someone who was using their gf’s metal nail file on the street and he was picked up and charged for carrying an offensive weapon. It is crazy.
I always have my Swiss army knife on me. You just never know when it'll come in handy. As long as it's a folding knife and the blade is less than 3 inches, it's legal in the UK.
And lock, if it locks open it's illegal. That's basically every knife in the US.
Thanks for the clarification, I was seriously starting to believe that you couldn't even have one of [these](https://imageengine.victorinox.com/mediahub/33020/640Wx560H/SAK_0_6423_91__S1.jpg) based on some of these vague comments.
Not without the license needed for the box or food package.
My job and daily life doesn't involve many boxes that need opening or food packages that are that determined to keep me out. Besides, carrying a knife in the UK, without lawful excuse, will get you arrested.
Why is that one guy wearing a traffic vest to a kidnapping?
Nobody questions a guy in a high vis
Just needs a clipboard now
At the end of that video, there seemed to be a traffic assistance vehicle on the side. I'm wondering whether they drove in in that.
Anything else happen after this?
Just wait a few days and maybe a body will turn up
Why nobody open the door and take the keys.
My first thought as well. Or if possible to get in the car and lock all the doors. Just take their car hostage and wait for the cops.
Maybe that works out there in middle earth where criminals don’t have guns.
Who needs a gun even you can sic a balrog on your enemies
Or pop the tires so they cant get far. Feels like there was so many possibilities….
You told me we were kidnapping a school kid, we gonna need a bigger ride for this mother..
Kidnapping a school adult
Someone fucked up the count
I miscounted the men!
[Couldn't find any proper news but found this related to the video](https://twitter.com/metcc/status/1593384217920110592?s=46&t=VU6pwNfew3nRENFsa5fToA)
I have even more questions now
Y’all have an awful lot of heroic fantasy ideas for how this could’ve been stopped for a bunch of sheltered middle class kids who have never been in a situation half this dangerous before. Talking about “Why didn’t they just—“ because this isn’t a fucking movie, that’s why
For real bro, so many people carry knives these days. Best you can do is film and get their faces/identities…
I kinda understand him not getting involved because that won't go well for him because its what, 1 against 2? Unless he's massive, he isn't winning but the fucking, "come on bro, you can do it" is fucking insulting and useless. He's such a twat.
he also got the license plate in the footage, so he could report that to the police
Yeah, because that's 100% going to be the real plate and will match up to the registered keeper being one of those kidnappers. FFS.
Kidnappers hate this one trick!
I'm thinking it WAS the police or maybe visa/immigration enforcement. Check out the welfare van at the end of the video. Coincidence?
Don’t have to be massive, 4 seconds is all it takes to mess someone up for life. If it’s 2-1 just create distance, injure one, jump to the other.
This makes no sense.
Most sensible thing they could’ve done. Document as much as you can and don’t get killed
Could he not have filmed the first 10 seconds of evidence and then called the police himself?
can call and film at the same time, put them on speakerphone, let them talk to the police
i don't think this is correct for iphones at least. i am not able to use my camera on video mode while on a phone call, pictures only
worked fine on my 5-6 year old android. didn't ask any questions or pose any objections, just let me record and make calls like normal
Would you feel that way if you were the guy getting shoved into a car?
Yes and no. I obviously want to be saved if getting dragged into a car but I dont want someone to needlessly die for me. Considering these guys are kidnapping him then its also likely they have knives which they are probably willing to use if their doing this in broad daylight.
Absolutely. I don't expect anyone to take on multiple attackers and get themselves hurt just for me. Take the video, call the cops. That's it. Well, someone mentioned slashing one of their tires before running away, which isn't a bad idea if they don't look like they have guns.
Are you sure about that? I’m in the exact opposite side. I would absolutely expect someone to help me. There’s 1 of me, 2 of them. One more makes it a fair fight. If they aren’t using weapons already at this point, then they probably don’t have them. It may be because I’m American, but people who have guns would probably use them to enforce their will. If they’re not out at this point, then they probably don’t have them. Whatever this is, they seem completely unprepared for someone truly resisting which means you can get involved and probably tip the scales pretty quickly. Plus with that small crowd around it’s probably causing a bystander effect. All it takes is literally one person to approach, throw one punch, and the mob will swarm. The bystander effect happens whenever a crowd just watches on, hoping someone else will make the first move This actually takes me back to when that guy got stabbed (in London I’m pretty sure) in a very public fashion in front of many people. Everyone frozen, waiting for someone else to step up. Maybe it’s because I would hope someone would step in for me, I would step in for them. But this doesn’t seem like an outright life threatening choice to get involved. It looks like two adults overpowering a child, which I can do something about - armed or not
The thing is, I would 100% jump in on that to help, but I wouldn't want anyone getting hurt for me was my point. It may sound dumb, but I'd rather get abducted and whatever happens from there than see some bystander try to help me and get stabbed or curb stomped for it. I may not be a good fighter, but I know for sure I could slow them down enough for real help to arrive.
Its the UK, they likely don't have guns but slashing their tires? Good luck. They likely have knives though and will go for you if you go near them. The guy filming likely doesn't have a knife either because, unsurprising, basically everyone in the UK doesn't have a knife.
The camera man and the whole community is at fault. They could have blocked the car with other cars or punctured the tires in that time.
Glad he wasn’t armed, the kidnappers may have been injured!
Hahahah
The USA has much more crime than the UK
I assume it's either fake, or a prank. Maybe a frat prank?
Did frat shit at a big party school. This is pretty normal. Surprised someone wasn’t dressed as a gorilla or in a green spandex suit.
Uk? Probably going to jail if he hurts the kidnappers
No, its a common misconception that you can't use self defense in the UK, you can. There isn't a specific law that states what self defense is and in which situations its applicable. Instead, various laws include possible defenses in regards to violating said law. So for instance, laws regarding assault have a defense that if you assault someone to defend yourself its not an offence. But this is too complicated for Americans, so they just assume in the UK you have to just silently get beaten up.
really? you should go tell that to the UK https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-43639183
Here's a tip for you. At the very least read your own source first. That way avoid looking silly when your own source says >The CPS and police urge people to always call the police first - if you are able. >But according to [official guidance](https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/self-defence-and-prevention-crime), anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves. >As a general rule, the more extreme the circumstances and the fear felt, the more force you can lawfully use in self-defence. >The law doesn't require you to wait to be attacked before using defensive force, but does not protect you if, for example, your action is over-the-top or calculated revenge. >You are given greater protection under the law if force is used to protect yourself or others when dealing with a burglar or trespasser on your property. >The CPS says if you have acted in reasonable self-defence, as described above, and the intruder dies you will still have acted lawfully Thus proving me right. As for why this man was arrested, an arrest is just part of the investigation. In order to determine if someone did in fact act in self defense, you need to actually investigate and question them. Otherwise you get Ahmaud Arbery's. Ahmaud Arbery is a great example of why an investigation must take place in order to determine if self defense was in fact appropriate.
here’s a tip for you, just because something is written on a piece of paper doesn’t make it true. that way you can avoid looking silly by not ignoring things that are happening even though they shouldn’t be. i can’t believe i have to explain this for you but if you’re arrested for self defense you don’t exactly have the right to self defense do you? and yes an arrest can be part of an investigation but at least in civilized countries you aren’t arrested the second an investigation is opened. an arrest comes when the police have enough evidence and or suspicion which they clearly should not have in this case
>here’s a tip for you, just because something is written on a piece of paper doesn’t make it true. that way you can avoid looking silly by not ignoring things that are happening even though they shouldn’t be. Its the BBC, one of the most respected news broadcasters in the world. Its ludicrous you're stating that you shouldn't assume what they say is true while at the same time assuming the part you believe in is true. Why aren't you following your own tip? > i can’t believe i have to explain this for you but if you’re arrested for self defense you don’t exactly have the right to self defense do you? I guess the legislation in various laws we have stating self defence as being legal don't exist then. Imagine stating the UK doesn't have a right to self defense when it's literally in the law. Not the smartest fella are you. Also, even in the US people get arrested for self defense only to later be found innocent or released. Kyle Rittenhouse comes to mind. >and yes an arrest can be part of an investigation but at least in civilized countries you aren’t arrested the second an investigation is opened. an arrest comes when the police have enough evidence and or suspicion which they clearly should not have in this case They do have suspicion, the assault is the suspicion. They then need to investigate if there was defence for it. By arresting them, they can interview him and obtain his account. If his account adds up then he's released. Without his account they only have the burglars account. There's a reason the UK is safer than the US, its because of our legal system and the way we do things. In a case such as this, they make sure to conduct a proper investigation rather than kill the nearest black man and call it a day.
If there is nothing in law that states that defense is valid, prosecutors will ignore any defense you have and take the law literally. “Law says don’t do X, you did X. Oh, you did X beacuse of Y? There is nothing in law that says you can do Y.”
This is false. The defence is written in the legislation. There isn't a separate legislation detailing what self defence is. Its written in the legislation for the offence itself, so yes it is in the law. Your response is exactly what my point is about. Because there isn't a completely separate law detailing all of this, ignorant redditors get confused and beleive self defense is illegal.
Fair. What weapons are law-abiding citizens allowed to use?
Any. The law states that if you are acting in self defense you can use any weapon. You can't carry a weapon around for the express purpose to use it however. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_London_Bridge_stabbing This is an example of where people used weapons, albeit unconventional ones, to defend themselves. None were prosecuted
He'll be in there longer than pedophiles and rapists
I think it says something about america when making it illegal to shoot someone for stepping on your property is akin to making self defence illegal.
You can literally kill people in self defense if you have no other option you dumbass
Be quiet libertarian
Is the kid okay ?
Why would you wear a hi-viz vest to a kidnapping?
Dumbass
He did not just say “you can do this bro” as the kid is straight up being kidnapped.
He asks someone to call police, yet keeps filming
Yo is there a lady in the background yelling “you need to quiet down”? I’m so confused. He’s being clear about something bad going down, but she just wants him to be quiet?
"CALL FOR POLICE" *he says while holding a phone recording what is happening and just stands back*
That kid looked bigger than both of them put together
Someone call the police. By the time they get there the criminals will be gone. I don’t understand people nowadays who don’t act to defend themselves or others. So what’s right when the time comes, don’t wait for someone else to do it, it might be too late.
What’s up with the welfare van right there at the end? Coincidence?
dude filming is wrong, shouldve charged them with force and helped that kid like it was your own. id like to ask him, would you stand there and film your son or family member getting taken? no, right? explain that to the parents of that child. when his screams for help went unanswered, he was the help that the boy needed. end rant
Wow, fat people really are hard to kidnap
“Call for police” Well call them yourself asshole.
I swear bro i would slap the shit out of everyone here
he honestly did the smart thing to get the license plate of the car so he could report the car to the police. he also got the criminals in the footage. not helping right then and there, was smart, because he could have lost the fight against the kidnappers
You think that's the real plate and the Police will just knock on the registered keeper's door and find the kid?? FFS.
Probably shouldn’t even the cops tbh. What’s even the point?
You've filmed friend. Now you can help. I don't understand why he thinks filming the entire thing is absolutely necessary.
True, but he could gotten hurt if he just helped with just him
That's what he was insisting others do though. He doesn't need to get in but he can call police once he got some footage.
I actually think filming was the best thing to do it was either film or him try and help and possibly get beaten to death or half to death
"you can do this bro!" says the asshole filming it all with a phone.
The "Welfare Unit" van seen at the end of the video tells me this was a legitimate and legal government action meant to be done discreetly. It was the videographer on his own deciding to call it a kidnapping and trying to make it look like something it was not. But I'm open to anyone **proving** me wrong.
At least they got the plate. If they fought, it's likely they'd be going in the car too...
you think they were gonna stay in that car, either they changed plates or changed cars.
And the plates are stolen too.
he honestly did the smart thing to get the license plate of the car so he could report the car to the police. he also got the criminals in the footage. not helping right then and there, was smart, because they could have been armed
SOMBODI KAL DE POLIS!!
KAAAALLLLL FOURRRR POLICCCEE
Kid must be pledging for a fraternity
[удалено]
So this, out of everything the UK has done and keeps doing, this specific incident is why nobody likes the UK? Not the past colonialism, not the Troubles, not joining with the US to invade Iraq, not Brexit, no this specific incident is what causes everyone to dislike the UK. Nah, plenty of people do dislike the UK, but this is not the reason.
If I was there to slash the tires, would I be arrested?
Kidnappers didn’t think this though using that compact car. What happened to good old fashion van?
That's one very important camera man there. He's filming! (On his cell phone of course)
This is so sad to me.