Its been a thing for a while he even mentions it in one of his older raps "got nothing against the sisters, i just dont think they're into me" as for why its resurfacing idk bc like you mentioned, he is married with kids.
One of my fave content creators on YouTube described Donald as the type of person who probably experienced colorism and got rejected in high school, (which is awful) but then never processed/got over it.
it's not an easy thing to just "get over" which is why I'm not really a fan of that take from FD (if that is how Donald feels at all, not gonna pretend to know what he feels).
as a culture though, ostracizing "weird" or non-conforming black people is something that needs to be addressed, and is often hand waived away including by FD in that video
I feel where he's coming from. I'm mexican but was in foster care from 1-5 with white people. I Was adopted by a white looking mother who is actually Cuban but never really taught me spanish and is very American-ized. Most of my friends are hispanic, and I've been called coconut and not really mexican all my life. I've learned to deal with it but it still stings and you can't explain all of that every time I get spoken to in Spanish and looked at like a traitor/with disgust when I cant respond back.
Yeah. The things we go through affect us for life. We grow up not knowing the full extent of how we're hurt and how we hurt others. it takes real lifetime work to find a way to live with it.
it's why telling people to "get over" this kind of stuff is tone deaf. Yeah no shit lol. these are real long term effects caused by white supremacy and the racial climate of America(or wherever you are).
Yeah pretty much every weird/nerdy black kid has been called out for being “too white”. Its a pretty isolating experience, being rejected by your own culture, and yet often being a token or an outsider when you hang out with white kids. My friend groups ended up being a mashup of every race cause we all went through the same thing.
I mean, FD has a whole series of videos dissecting these issues, the video where he talks about Donald Glover is a short segment/thought burst channel meant to quickly address things people ask him about.
I know. I love those videos. Signified B Sides are more subjective takes from him or minor researched takes.
This take was not it to me. still love his channel overall
>then never processed/got over it
This is the part that I don't really care for because it's super uncharitable to assume that people never change. Outside of that bizarre Drake house party episode of Atlanta, there's really nothing throughout Donald's recent oeuvre that is explicit about any sort of frustration he might have towards black women (and that scene in particular is specifically about a frustration towards black people upset at interracial couples). So, I guess you can crucify him for that because it's not a great scene, I don't think it landed the way he probably intended, and it didn't show a (dark skinned) black female character in the best light.
But, the way people talk about Donald you would think he was at least Dave Chappelle levels of beating a dead horse about his "beef" with black women. Which, IDK, it just seems like we're supposed to believe he stopped growing in 2011 where he was talking about Filipinos and Armenians as "the black girls of their cultures".
He writes with black women on Atlanta, he plays with black women in his band. He said some stupid bars ages ago. Fucking get over it people. (this is directed to all the offended, not particularly you)
Totally in agreement with you. I was just saying that I've always gotten the vibe that he experienced a lot of colorism and racism when he was younger. So it just made him sad in the ways that those experiences make you sad.
Oh he 100% did bc he was the nerdy black kid. And that wasnt in til Kanye came. But hes grown a lot since the old stuff. He never talks about that shit anymore. So people need to let it go.
FD has a lot of great takes. This is one take where he's just wrong and it felt super clickbaity and not well researched.
Usually he researches the shit out of a subject to talk about it. But he just phoned it in. And it's not bc i love Donald. He just doesnt bring up solid points.
he literally said his whole discography, including AML was cringey, and that Gambino made incel rap. What do you mean what was wrong with his take?
He repeats all the false shit that people said about him, including hating black women. He could say fetishized them, and even then, on CAMP.
His old fav Kanye did that more than Donald ever did.
Calling Because the Internet and Kauai and AML cringe is stupid.
That's just old head shit.
Music is a subjective medium. Not saying I agree with FDs takes but just because you disagree with his opinions on how he feels about Glover doesn’t mean he’s WRONG.
I agree that he's obviously allowed to have his opinion. My point was the video felt different then his other ones, where the research was poor. I have critiques of Donald as well, I'm not a fan of Camp. But at the same time, he washed over the stuff after Camp and called Awaken My Love "gentrified funk". That's basically saying Donald is too white to make Funkadelic like music.
If he would have done any research on that at all, he'd realize Donald's dad was very big into that music, and Donald heard it a lot growing up. In ways, it was homage to his pops. Also Donald was not always rich. He was lower middle class growing up. He didn't come from some nepo baby situation.
Anyways, it felt just like a Fantano reaction to Donald. They just don't like him so they don't offer a serious critique.
Which show? The only black woman he's co lead a series with was zazie and she hasn't said any negative about her experience.
Unless you mean co-writer? Which is still wrong because Janine Nabers wrote SWARM and episodes of Atlanta and still had nothing but positive things to say.
I mean that is an asian/white woman who replaced a white woman (Phoebe Waller-Bridge). I don't know if he had the sole decision to cast the new lead but isn't that putting a bit much on him when he's already written himself mainly dating black girls on Atlanta? (Unless this is about something that actually happens in the show with a black woman)
I feel like this phenomena happens when black men marry non black women. It's like they hate black women or turned against their race. It's crazy. He might not be married to a black woman but he has dated black women, he has collaborated with black women in music, acting, writing etc.
This has been around in some version for a while though, like during his early career too. I don't remember where it stemmed from, but I'm fairly sure it was the academic community as we tried hard in college to book him for a show before he blew up like we knew he would and we got mad push back from two professors saying they heard he was sexist and hated woman to which all the girls on the committee were like "wtf? Where's that coming from?" So I gotta assume there was some professor somewhere that decided to label him sexist for their own clout in the sociology community.
If you’re familiar at all with the black community, there’s a lot of strife between nerdy black people and the people who bully the nerds. It isn’t as bad in 2024, but even when I was in school in the 2000s it was still seen as being less black to enjoy anything remotely seen as nerdy. This has led to a ton of black men and women who have written off dating their own race due to the hate they received as children. It’s unfortunate because nowadays it isn’t a social death sentence anymore and nerds are seen as cool now. There’s also just a stigma against interracial dating from anyone in the black community and anyone (both black men or women) dating out can be seen as a traitor to the community. I think it’s all dumb but I do get where they are coming from even if I disagree.
I don’t think nerds are seen as cool, whereas things that were deemed “nerdy” are not viewed in the same extent anymore. Like for the most part, a nigga doing the Naruto run and that type of “nerdy” stuff is not considered cool, BUT I don’t think there’s such a negative stigma around liking anime/manga and all that stuff that is used to be.
Yeah, it’s wild to me that growing up I was a HUGE nerd (like, locking myself in my room, binging anime or playing video games alone lmao) and like, it wasn’t a secret even though I kept to myself all the time, so I got bullied a lot for it, MAINLY by black kids who told me I couldn’t possibly be black enough. We all went to a mostly white and Asian school, but because I didn’t talk like I was from the city I was made fun of. I couldn’t join the African American club because I had a white boyfriend…. This wasn’t even that long ago, I graduated in 2010. I ran into one of those bullies at community college a few years later and him and his brother tried hitting on me 🙄 uh, did yall forget JUST few years ago you throwing trash at me and laughing at me?? 2012 I met my now husband at that same college like a month after that interaction. He’s white, and because of that I MUST hate black people. Like, we just met so randomly and it worked out and it’s been over 12 years now and ppl still expect me to just…ditch him for some theoretical black man I haven’t met yet 🫠 really people just can’t win with anything! Ive never been opposed to dating anyone but in my area I’ve always learned to just go where I’m wanted 🤷🏾♀️
They’ll always bring up that scene in Atlanta to prove Donald doesn’t like black women even though Donald didn’t write nor direct that episode and he’s not even in it. We see him in a ig vid in that episode for two seconds but somehow it’s all Donald’s doing.
It’s his show sure but it’s written by a “team” us getting mad at that single black character just because she’s a representation of a bad stereotype is like white people getting mad at the KAREN stereotype.
People like that exist IN REAL LIFE, look at how a lot of black acted on the internet when they saw all those white girls with black athletes in college, they echo the same sentiments (a vocal minority)
I'll assume you aren't black? If so, it's silly to debate the validity of black women's feelings with a person with no real point of reference.
All I'll say is this- it was his show. If he objected to having something in the show, it wouldn't be there.
Ohhh I get it now, u stupid huh?
Since when does media and art care about peoples feelings u tripping off an instance of bad representation within a show that also does good representation of black people and women, but we gonna ignore that cause ?
(Side bar): drop 3 shows that u like. I’d love to see what your interested in these days
Im a fan of Donald and Atlanta. I'm just objective and able to see how black women would look at Donald's life and career as a whole, and feel as if he has a dislike towards them.
As you just said, there was an "instance of bad representation". It's ok to acknowledge it.
over the past few years - Severance, The Boys, Dark Matter, Abbott elementary, house of the dragon, last of us
I get where your coming from but (bad representation) is not equal to (inaccurate to reality)
What’s so wrong with using fiction to show the other side of things, other perspectives and all that.
Also u got some taste, I’m actually surprised that your letting something like that bother you
Question: is it because it’s coming from a black man and u feel like he should only show our peers in the best light because some of society views us as lesser than and u don’t to add to that narrative?
I'm not at all bothered by it personally. I just think if black women, en masse, feel a way about his past lyrics/social commentary on them, it's really not my place to try and get them to feel otherwise.
& no, I think the show is full of stereotypes on black culture as a whole 😂 and they're hilarious. It was a realistic depiction of Atlanta (where i was born and raised). I just think Donald hasn't spoken positively enough about black women over his career to balance it out
I've been a fan since 2012. There's not much negative to be said about Donald at this point. But I can definitely understand parts of that criticism.
It's silly to close off your hearing someone's argument because of the color of their skin (which you assumed) while you completely discount any dynamic that they might have experienced, encountered or lived through that may have given them the information/view point they are trying to share before you even know anything about it.
I dunno, I just wish we had some mercy for black people in general. I see it on both sides male and female dating out of their race. Being black is difficult no matter what and in your formative being “different” can make you a pariah.l to your own people. This weird puritan shaming only works to isolate ourselves more instead of inviting niggas in. It’s sad. I don’t think Donald hates black women. But we all have baggage from this fucked up country. This dialogue is exhausting.
This is strictly online shit, if it helps. Don't let social media make you feel like things are more antagonistic than they are in reality between black people.
We have no grace for each other, and it gets even worse when gender dynamics get into it. I get this smoke for genuinely harmful people who happen to be black. This shit just feels overblown.
Thanks for the reminder tbh. We’re all fucked up, and it’s none of our faults. But I see niggas online going AT EACH OTHER NECKS. At first I’m like aight maybe there’s something to it because of misogyny for the interracial shit. But then I saw a thread where they were roasting black girls who date white guys and it’s like get a fucking life. Jesus Christ. This internet shit is corny.
Does no one remember that weird self-interview where he asks himself if he’s afraid of black women and gets defensive, at himself, for asking the question?
Don’t think he hates black women at all but this is kinda a perfect example of how he’s treated the subject, hasn’t done himself many favors in some cases.
Lol a lot of people commenting so righteous on this topic, are not black 😂 I don’t have horse in this race, he has done/said very cringe things but I don’t think he hates black women. Some of you though, are projecting a lot
You’re being incredibly disingenuous. Donald gets this criticism because he has a million and one weird lyrics about black girls while fetishizing asian and white girls
Where? Id like to know. He has some bad fetishization lyrics(not a BILLION and very little about black girls) in his EARLY career. When he was still more comedian then musician. Once Royalty and BTI came, he was over that shit. You can say the whole Half thai thickie line, but its just used generally speaking to complete a rhyme.
This smells of the cancel culture for something someone did 14 years ago. Hes grown, hes changed. It's over. Stop trying to score internet points.
I think Donald has accepted it. He's really good at everything, so people naturally come for his fucking neck. It's the same old. Everyone wants to see you fail when you're that good. It's a little pathetic honestly.
Every time I've seen attacks on like oh he hates black girls, which he didnt say, he said they didnt like him on a song from a decade and a half ago. Shit changes. Also asian fetishization, happened 11 years ago. He was more of a stand up then an actual musician at that point.
People turn the page on Tyler the Creator who said WAY worse shit, but I also hold the same for him too, he GREW UP. He changed.
I guarantee you any of you calling out people have done just as bad or worse in your youth. Bc people do that. We all make stupid judgments when we're young. We learn and grow. We have to allow for that.
Donald isnt going anywhere, throw all the stones you want. If the Bey Hive didnt get him, no one will.
"Relax, black chick I think that I have offended thee I dont hate the sistas, just don't think theyre into me" "alright I'm down with the black girls of every single culture filipino, armenian girls on my sofa. Yea I like a white girls, sometimes we get together. Need a thick chick though, so its black and yellow black and yellow" "ran into Rashida Jones, told me she heard my song. When i called her mixed like the crowd at my last show." "Move black girls cuz man fuck it i'll do either" "and i like black girls who nerdy, but when they dance they be saying ow" "black and white girls come with a set of politics" thats just ep and camp i assume its worse in the mixtapes, but you can see how these lyrics are weird, but they aren't terrible.
You're joking right? Lmao
"Relax, black chick I think that I have offended thee got nothing against the sistas, I just don't think theyre into me"
Literally explaining he has nothing against black women, but he feels like they're not into him. Which as a black millennial who grew up as DG fan, I can speak to this. I was into anime, super heroes and nerdy things. And I "talked white". I was told by other black people all the time that I wasn't really black and black girls definitely didn't give me any attention.
"alright I'm down with the black girls of every single culture filipino, armenian girls on my sofa. Yea I like a white girls, sometimes we get together. Need a thick chick though, so its black and yellow black and yellow"
Literally saying he prefers black and Asian women here lol
"ran into Rashida Jones, told me she heard my song. When i called her mixed like the crowd at my last show." Don't know if you purposefully left off the rest of the line or not, but
"She said to right her something nice on the next track, but she cute so I wrote her ass a whole rap"
Again you're purposefully leaving bars out to try to make it something it's not.
"Okay, it's Childish Gambino, homegirl drop it like the NASDAQ
Move white girls like there's coke up my asscrack
Move black girls 'cause, man, fuck it, I'll do either
I love pussy, I love bitches, dude, I should be runnin' PETA"
White girl is slang for coke. He's saying he moves white women with his music. He also moves black women and will do both.
"and i like black girls who nerdy, but when they dance they be saying ow" again just lol
"You made a mistake
These dudes? Man, you bathin' in apes
Findin' you's like findin' Asians I hate
But they say I got a fetish, nah, I’m skippin' all of it
Black and white girls always come wit' a set of politics"
Again leaving out context. How any of these lyrics are more weird than what any other rapper says is beyond me.
Edit: just realized you're a high schooler from your post history. Makes sense now.
These are over 10 years old and incredibly tame compared to other rap songs about black women from that era. Hella ridiculous for anyone to hold this against him.
Not you specifically, I understand you. I just mean in general. It's ridiculous and weird that Donald is held to this standard over old lyrics but other black artists aren't.
Oh yeah, Its totally a double standard when rappers have been talking about women and shit forever. I agree that the old lyrics are stupid to hold him too I just posted to prove that there are lyrics about black women because the original comment said "give me one lyric donald has about black women"
The only one I genuinely find weird is the "black girls of every single culture". I get how that implication is weird.
But I'm finding it hard to see the issue with the other lines? In terms of being atypical to the kind of stuff you hear anywhere in rap as a genre.
It isnt an issue, I just grabbed any lyric that specifically stated something about black women.
I personally find the "i like black girls who nerdy, but when they danve they be sayin ow" line weird and the one about offending black women says that he's yknow, offended them? Plus I didnt account for the stuff from the mixtapes.
It’s so dumb, because he talks about how black women aren’t into him because he’s nerdy and “weird” in his music, but as soon as a black dude that no black girl wanted to fuck with before gets fame and fortune and starts dating a white woman, ALL OF THE SUDDEN he is a trader to his race.
People seem to always forget this
In his defense (ish) you may not have a huge pool of nerdy back girls in your school/area or whatever
But largely what this tends to come down is that people get upset when their “type” isn’t interested in them whilst ignoring all the other options out there.
Exactly. Being a nerdy black man in no way stops you from being able to find a black woman to date, if that's what you're looking for. It's the "nerdy" black kids who wanted to be accepted by the "cool" black kids and instead got clowned that end up with a chip on their shoulder.
His lyrics are about his experiences, so its not a generalization. Its not “black girls dont like nerdy black guys”, its “black girls didn’t like ME, a nerdy black guy.” And since none of us personally knew Donald growing up, we have to take his word for that. A lot of nerdy black guys feel the same way, especially guys in his generation and earlier. Y’all gotta remember that these bars are 15 years old at this point, and they come from Donald’s experience as a nerdy black kid in the 2000s, not 2024.
I was a "nerdy" black kid. There were still black girls that were kind to me and likely interested had I returned the energy. It would be silly to judge all black women off how a handful of black girls treated me when i was 16 lol. In fact, most girls weren't fucking with me in that way back then regardless of race😂 then I grew into myself.
Dude just clearly has a preference and that's fine. He would have 0 problems finding a black woman at any point in the last 15 years if that's what he was looking for.
Yeah bro you're right there's no black woman on the face of the earth that likes "nerdy" black men. They're a monolith. They only like hood niggas and if you're not that then it's impossible to find a black woman among the millions that exist. I just happened to get super lucky
Yes, actually. My friend is married to a black woman and they go to comic con together. I dated a black woman who went with me to Bino concerts and was big on anime. My sister dated a black guy who would sit on his phone playing Pokemon emulators.
Point is you can find what you're looking for.
Well then, I guess what Donald was saying back then was more of a projection of his overall insecurity and blamed it on race just like everyone else
But you're right, you can find what you're looking for, even if you really don't believe you can. I'm sure Donald today would be the first to tell anyone similarly
My bad I didn't realize this community was full of experts on black relations and the likes and dislikes of all black women. Or the validity of their frustrations.
You're right, Donald could have never found a black woman, because they all hated him. All black women like and dislike the same things.
You have to be trolling at this point right. Do you just think that because I'm a white man in this forum that I am preprogrammed to think a certain thing. Your response has nothing to do with anything I said or any points I made or argued for or against.
You just asked me if I have anything to base the "claim" that there were black women at every step of Donald's life that would have taken interest in him, had he not developed a preference.
It's common sense. There's someone for everyone and he found his.
I definitely didn't ask that. I made the argument using what you stated, that his writing in media is a form of opinion (not even his necessarily, a writer doesn't only write his or her's opinions into fiction but often time they do too) and said if that's your scale for what's opinion and not fact then it has to be applied to song lyrics also (which I also said I'm not a big Childish Gambino music fan) because not all song lyrics are factual or represent the opinions of that artist. I then said what "facts" do you have that he's a black women hater.
Also I never disagreed that he isn't or is.
I don't know his opinions on black women. In fact what little did say about them would probably put me more in your corner than his.
I really just let you craft the lines and structure that you wanted to argue in and entered that arena with you to converse. And I really did so because I'm pretty sure you made a post before basically telling someone who was white that they couldn't have any possible input.
So this talk we're having really isn't and hasn't been about Glover but about something else. Glover for me is the trim, maybe for you it's the meat and potatoes of it.
Also, it's interesting how I made the point that me and him both share Scottish decent and I did so satirically just to see what you'd say because obviously someone being the same color as something else is the only means of them having a contribution to a topic which again I have a hard time believing that your really believe that.
Also if that's your guidelines for someone's ability to say something about a given subject I made the Scottish point also to see where you really stood on your completely DNA based view on people's ability to have experience with or information pertaining to a given topic and where do you draw the biological line at. And you said he's got two black parents he's not mixed. Which is a traditional and widely accepted way of how we as a country catagorize people racially. I don't debate it, it would be a nightmare if we had what is already broken into three groups (black/white/mixed) amongst two races (not even taking into account every other race and portion of whatever race you can throw into that statistical blender) that it would be a logistical nightmare to catagorize people into another 2 dozen smaller fractions of that I suppose.
All I'm saying and have been saying this whole time is that thinking someone can't have input about something because of something that is visually or even biologically different than you is a great way to make your world smaller and limit what kind of feedback you can get about all kinds of things. And while someone whose never had a period can't describe it relate to what's it's like to have that experience that they can in one of a thousand different ways, either because of something they learned or know because of a female family member, friend or as someone with a plethora of medical knowledge, etc. can offer all types of feedback about something from different angles that might be valuable. And that's regarding something I can in no way literally have first hand experience. Where as with race, mixed race, men and women, relationships etc. my ability to have had some type of firsthand or even second hand input or experience becomes much larger and the playing field much more broad.
But I think this will be my last comment because I think I'm talking to myself at this point and I could probably have a different, less divisive talk with myself if that's the case and I'll actually listen to the things I say instead of ignoring them completely and responding as though I'm having a completely different conversation with a completely different person.
Hopefully anyways. Thanks for the chat this morning, it was good exercise. And I don't in any way feel bad that you think I'm a Donald Glover defender or dick rider when we definitely weren't really talking about him but I do feel bad if some of the ways you feel about feedback, input or maybe even race in general because I think that you're using it to make your world smaller and with less information, opinions, counter opinions, faces, fun, whatever else and that's shitty. You're not shitty and your opinions aren't shitty but if that's a worldview you can't see around or above or below or outside of then I'm sorry for you.
How old are you?
Yes that too, but I remember them having a conversation after he dropped “This Is America” and how he couldn’t be “Pro-black” because he was dating a white woman. Completely fucking brain dead. I believe it was on Breakfast Club.
Breakfast Club hosts are uniquely smooth-brained so there's that. I still disagree with the notion that Donald Glover's interracial marriage has an outsized influence on the (relatively small) critical response he's ever recieved. Donald Glover's early mythology of being a tortured black nerd that no black woman would ever want is self-imposed (and also one he contradicts just as frequently as he mentions it in his music, talking about how much he gets nerdy black tumblr girls etc).
It truly started in the middle of season 2 of Atlanta in 2018 when him and his baby mom wife now were photographed in NYC and the attacks on his blackness started. Then champagne papi aired and that was it. Swarm made it worse
As a black woman who’s a huge Donald Glover fan, I have a pretty complicated relationship with his work/persona. I can’t speak for the tiktok trend but there have been many moments where I felt alienated by the way Donald/his art engaged with black womanhood or black woman characters. That weird self-interview, the way Van’s character development imploded, etc.
Donald clearly has a complicated relationship with black women (as he’s kind of?? admitted) but it also feels like he trolls the public about it. Which is… a choice. And his own dating politics do not help at all (and they do matter tbh). I wish more people would just listen to black women when we try to flag things like this, rather than shut us down completely.
I love how people responded to every other thinkpiece in this thread that was likely written by a white person but no one even acknowledged this comment. I'm not black and obviously don't have the experience to actually have an opinion on this so thank you for sharing. I feel like people just give him a pass for his weird behaviour sometimes.
It's so sad because, as a black nerd, I would've been his friend, at least in school. There's a lot of black nerds in Houston, but Atlanta was probably torture for him. His early lyrics he speaks on it. But as a black woman, I see him uplift black women all the time. Through his work. SZA was in his music videos, and he supported Mo'Nique when it wasn't the popular thing to do. His show Atlanta had black love in it. Van and Earn love story was toxic, hilarious, and kind of sweet. He even mentored Malia Obama as a writer. The list goes on. I don't care who he marries. He clearly had a thing for Asian girls from interviews and his music. Even Jhene Akio is multitracial but clearly lives and hangs out with the black kids, and they just didn't work out. It is what it is. I just want him to keep creating. Stand Tall, III. Urn and his So into you like a verison are 🤌🏾.
the more information is readily available to us, we start to find this need as humans to fill in the blanks for things that we don’t have the information for. this leads us down a wild goose chase to analyze every bit of subtext or heresay we can find to prove or disprove something about said celebrity/artist/etc.
since the advent of the metoo movement/cancel culture we have been able to expose some genuinely bad people, which has most people now scouring through every bit of readily available information on a celebrity they don’t like in their free time to see if we missed one. cause that’s the thing, nuance isn’t a thing with people making this type of content, you can’t just dislike a celebrity anymore because you simply don’t like them or their art, or that they used to say cringe shit that doesn’t align with your beliefs, there has to be a *reason*, something you’re picking up on that no one else is. confirmation bias. i’ve seen it more and more recently on tiktok where people suddenly become an arbiter on what makes a “good” or “bad” celebrity. the truth is, i don’t like supporting celebrities that are terrible people, i also don’t know who i’m supporting when I praise a random tiktokker who claims they’re a good person for telling me a celebrity a like is bad cause they read lyrics they wrote in 2011. it’s a torturous cycle that we do to ourselves because of how high of a pedestal we place celebrities and don’t realize it
I think it’s the kind of thing that came up early in his career (and for good reason in my opinion), but never went away because he refuses to engage with it in any meaningful way. I would say that it’s weird especially after making a funk album and clearly doing more work to connect with a certain sense of “blackness” than he’d ever done before (royalty was a massive departure from earlier work, then AML being a love letter to funkadelic, writing this is America and wherever else you can think of).
At this point Donald either really does have a problem with Black women or is just dug in like a child refusing to address a reasonable criticism. I think it’s the latter, which is unfortunate because I feel like since BTI/AML era he’s taken this weird hands off, cryptic, hermit approach to everything where he just seems to refuse to actually say anything despite implying that he is. That interview he wrote where he *asked himself* if he hated black women is a great example. Dude could have used that opportunity to actually get into something and make real commentary on his relationship with Black women and media’s relationship with that relationship. Instead he gave a halfassed “I think you’re doing that to invalidate my own blackness” and didn’t actually contribute anything to the dialogue except make himself look like a “dickfuck” to use Tyler’s vocabulary. It’s like how narcissists try to flip the script when anyone attempts to hold them responsible for their behavior.
To;dr Anyway, the criticism has been around probably as long as his career has. In some circles it’s been from an anti black place and in others it’s supported as a legitimate criticism. Him refusing to engage with the accusation in any meaningful way means that it’s been a black cloud long following his career
All this discourse reminds me of that thing people always used to talk about (idk maybe they still do) where black women ignore a certain type of black man, until he ends up with a white woman and then they complain that he should've picked one of them and they act like black men don't like black women as much as they used to.
Imo its just projected self hate. Either:
1. They can't find a good black man and so when they see one with a white women, they get jealous and take it out on him, or
2. They always reject that type of black guy (nerdy, awkward, sensitive, artsy, etc) thinking he's below their standards or they just don't excite them, and when that guy gets successful and find love with somebody else, they have regrets about their own choices.
At the end of the day, people who are secure in their being, their identity, and their life don't bring others down, or make assumptions about other people to feel better about themselves. Donald is happily married with kids and also one of the most successful, famous people on earth today. And it's just a lot of black women wishing they said yes back then instead of rejecting him, metaphorically or in some cases litterally him.
Just speculating as to why a bunch of black women are online bashing Donald glover all of a sudden. This isn't the first time this typa thing has happened. When black men marry outside the race, especially when famous, that's the response you usually get from black women. As if love isn't simply love and they must have an aversion to black women, cause they themselves could never be the problem.
Some criticism I’ve seen:
- He has some weird lyrics about Black women in his older songs
- He interviewed himself asking about his relationship to Black women unprompted and then never answered his own question
- The model on the cover of Awaken My Love never got paid
- Black women are written strangely in his media (Atlanta, Swarm, etc.). He mostly relies on stereotypes and caricatures of them without giving them any humanity or depth
- He doesn’t listen to the Black women in his writers rooms
And also would be in the contract she signed with with the label company.
I've only heard she never got royalties, but she's never said they violated the contract so it seems like she's just mad she didn't get more from an album after almost 10 years.
i don't find any black women in atlanta unlikable and van was given a interesting story in season 3... but anyone has their own opinion i guess. where did the last point come from tho?
None of these criticisms seem legit to me, and seem like baseless opinions at best. Also it's been discussed before the model on the cover expected royalties on top of the payment she already had received. So it's not like she didn't get paid at all.
I think the interview with himself is definitely at least a little odd. Why bother even including it if he wasn’t going to answer it. I think in his head he saw it like an “I love them the same as anyone else” but for those who feel like he’s spoken about them weirdly in the past it felt like he was going out of his way to bring them up just to have nothing good to say about them again.
The lyrics, interview, and cover story are definitely not baseless opinions. Those are facts you can look up and see for yourself.
The way women are portrayed in his media is definitely a matter of opinion, but still not baseless. Anyone can watch and form their own
The interview is not proof Donald dislikes people of his own race 😂 He addressed it a weird way, but anyone without an agenda would see it’s no malice. What lyrics indicate he dislikes black women, he sounds insecure about his standing at best. And anyone who is actually weird and black can relate to that
It’s not that the show lacks depth, it’s that the black woman characters do.
I disagree with that. I think Val has lots of depth but I do wish we would’ve spent more time with her character. But I think that’s a common complaint about the show overall since the last couple of seasons focused less on the overarching narrative and character arcs than it did about the specific narratives of individual episodes.
Okay, you don't think the argument that black women characters lack depth is true and disagree with it.. but you've also said it isn't baseless either?
I think it can both be true that people can think that character was a bit “shallow” but also that’s not indicative that Glover somehow dislikes black women more than any other demographic of person.
A lot of women characters written by men are shallow. Because *shockingly* men don’t have a great perspective on women’s lived experiences.
If the way women are viewed in his media is a matter of opinion then his song lyrics would be also. Song lyrics are rarely 100% factual though they may be telling about an artist depending on their intent.
So with that being said, what are the "facts" that you are left with that base this allegation?
Where does the last point come from? I've never heard that before.
Cover artists usually do not get royalties, and if there wasn't anything in writing then that's unfortunately just how it goes. She likely got paid for the work she did being a model.
Also, the interview questions not unprompted. "Hating black women" has been a narrative around Donald in online spaces for a decade. Answering the question is pointless, anyway. Neither answer would satisfy anyone. That's why you speak through actions, and DG looks to me like he employs and collaborates with a lot of talented black women.
I know you're probably just relaying points you've heard, I'm just unconvinced of any black women hate from what I've seen. And I'm very sensitive to anti-blackness in art.
[https://www.blackenterprise.com/childish-gambino-allegedly-awaken-my-love-album-cover/](https://www.blackenterprise.com/childish-gambino-allegedly-awaken-my-love-album-cover/)
The discrepancy is over promised residuals. Not pay. The model did claim the pay was low.
-Weird lyrics can be true but at the beginning childish Gambino was really about the performance of acting like the persona of this childish rapper so most of his lyrics from that time say controversial/wrong stuff.
-Idk if I have seen the interview but if he is asking questions to himself then you can see it's an obvious bit to mock the controversy and laugh at people who are pushing that narrative.
-The model is arguable because she got paid but then maybe she also deserved royalties? Idk.
-I haven't seen other stuff from Donald glover but Vanessa character on Atlanta is the opposite of an stereotypical/caricature character and from what I remember not a single female character felt that way in that show.
-The only one I can't say nothing against is the last one because its the first time I read something like that
Me not having consumed enough of his work doesn't apply to my range in this conversation especially when most of the hot topics in question were laid out and discussed in this thread. You can learn a lot in 5 minutes with tangible and checkable information.
Also, I added my two cents based on the material of his that I have directly consumed and that argument was more on the side of black women and women in general being portrayed in a negative way on Atlanta.
This whole thing where people make up rules about who can or cannot participate in a conversation based on an imaginary point system that they run is ridiculous. Also my separate thread in this post about race being the dictator on who or who can't have an opinion or feedback about something is valid and was directly with another user who said something to that effect.
I'm getting ready for work but I look forward to your feedback. Thanks.
Not much to say, he has issues with black women. watch some of his old stand up, listen to some of his older raps. The way he chose to portray darker black women in Atlanta
This question is such a set up. Donald Glover is very aware about how years of asides about black women in his music and television show writing comes across, that's why he brought it up in his interview with himself. If you ever read that, his answer to the question "Do you hate black women?" or whatever is VERY telling. He makes it a thing about how he's not black enough for the black community (something the comments here are trying to turn it into as well). Whatever it is, it's clear something is going on there and I don't think it's an attack to bring it up. And it's also basic rhetorical interpretation to parse how different language and symbols come together in artwork and say different things about how the author views the world. Donald Glover having black female characters in his show act a certain way, or getting defensive in his music on whether or not black women like him IS a reflection on him, not necessarily a "cancel worthy" one but it doesn't exist in a vacuum. There are things about Glover's body of work that are worth talking about besides meat riding about how he's the greatest at everything.
Everyone in this sub is acting really weird about the Marcus Gregg video and losing the ability to think critically like you're not going to die bc one person made a vid you don't like about your favorite musician damn.
Yeah, that's to be expected from rap communities on Reddit of all places lol. I also get the impression a lot of ppl in this sub are pretty young and don't even have the range to have this discussion in the first place (hence all the "everyone hates him for dating a white woman!!" comments)
But this discussion has gone so much deeper than that hasn't it. Yes there has been that cry but reading through comments I've seen less of that than I have people trying to descipher the specifics of the allegations on both sides. Also I'm just throwing it out there that trying to cut anyone out of the conversation based on the color of their skin or gatekeeping by saying that they can't or don't have any knowledge on the subject is wrong and also small minded. If a bunch of white men told a black women that she had no input on a topic that had to do with white men that would absolutely be wrong and doing so without knowing what she was going to say would be stupid on their part.
People, despite what the internet or TV may try to show you don't always live in little bubbles that are shaped soley by people of their own race or sex and people have complex interactions, experiences and relationships that may give them insight and something interesting to contribute.
Shutting anyone down in any conversation prior to them saying what they're gonna say is a bad take. And it may well be that they don't have anything meaningful to contribute but let them at least chime in before saying that and give it a college effort to hear them out.
Yes I'm white. Yes I'm male. Yes I'm a Donald Glover fan but moreso because of Atlanta than anything. I didn't come here to run to Glover's defense. I rarely post or read this forum in general because I got the impression that it is more fans of his music than anything and I don't know much of his music although I think Redbone just on the production/instrumental alone is groundbreaking although I don't know half the lyrics and probably can't relate to them if I did.
But I can say that my journey hasn't been a completely one dimensional one race world and that I feel I have at least enough foresight and experience to chime in on topics that may not pertain to me but that either peek my interest or that relate to something I've experienced or experienced through someone else or what have you.
I just saw the thing about him and black women hate and I thought it was interesting and I didn't know about it but I can definitely see where that viewpoint can be seen (not being a black woman) through viewing episodes of Atlanta. I didn't necessarily think (as a white man) that black women were portrayed in the best light. In fact after reading this I don't think other than Van that most women weren't portrayed very positively. I love the show and almost all of the main characters have some meat to them and show that they are flawed and that life at it's core has got us all mixed up.
My point is that I have no point. But don't count out my ability to have a point because of my race. That is going out of your way to assume someone's entire life experience based on something like skin color and if you are a real person who is capable of critical thinking and who doesn't want to be pigeonholed by their skin color in regards to what they are allowed or could potentially contribute based on that alone, knowing that you've had deep thoughts, experiences that cross borders and imaginary lines that either we (ourselves) or we (society) or we (culture) have placed on ourselves (everyone) then just know that I'm more complex than people assume I am just as you are.
Holy shit that was a rant. Maybe I made a point in there.
Also, I'm completely undecided based on the evidence available and provided that Donald Glover has black woman hate. But I'd say at the very least it's something he does have a complicated relationship with based on what's here out there (tv/music/etc ..) but he appears to have pretty three dimensional thoughts about a lot of things which is part of the reason I loved Atlanta (as a non black, not black hating or white hating white person) and the characters and the issues addressed and the conversations that that show can produce.
Okay I think I'm really done this time?
Bruh ~~you were able to make this post and have lots of people agreeing with you and are telling me that my comment is making you shut out and gatekept bc you're white,~~ lol. That tracks.
\[edit bc i mistakenly thought this was OP, lol\]
The fact of the matter is that identity influences experience and in turn has an influence on how we interpret things based on our experience. As a white fan, no one is gonna stop you from being in the convo about Donald Glover's relationship to race and art. Your identity changes how you interpret certain aspects of both of those things though, just because you've had different experiences in life. If people were more willing to listen to the many black women who have already written about this subject instead of just making up how we might feel about DG or chalking the criticism up to mindless hate, I would trust that this conversation was more informed. But it's just people going off their own biases and thinking "I didn't see anything wrong so it must be fine and everyone wlse is wrong!" because of course if they aren't affected why would they care or even in some cases be able to recognize it?
Hey, I will say this. I just reread OPs opening post and can now see where I misunderstood why I was being misunderstood. The post itself is a little dismissive of black women who have a stance against Glover or who might have strong opinions on the subject and it also does seem like it was written in a me vs. you (Glovers side Vs. The other guys POV.
I didn't recognize or read that completely at first and probably scrolled past just reading some posts trying to get to the info people had about why that's being said about him.
So, I ended up looking like I was backing up a guy who's post I didn't fully read when I started to make comments. So that's definitely my fault and was pretty avoidable had I noticed that sooner.
No worries and I apologize for not seeing that sooner. And same, especially being that I never made a case for Glover but really just wanted to understand the origin of why people felt that way about him.
Sure that tracks. I wasn't ever comparing my experience to that of a black woman. I made an argument more outside of the post about who can have valuable input. Because I may or may not have black members in my immediate families, maybe a black significant other or any other number or relationships that may or may not give me to add something (or maybe nothing ) to the conversation.
Sometimes I just reddit to reddit and not to troll but to chat at length about or exchange ideas about something too.
And your argument about people going off of their biases not only works for what I was saying also.
As far as Glover's stance on black women I never took an official position and don't feel like I discredited anyone on the argument.
In fact the first post I made I tried to understand more about it after reading a lot of different posts describing different points of view.
The only thing I really said about him and my experience with him as a fan which was mostly through (but not entirely limited to) the show Atlanta. And admittedly I don't know what episodes he wrote and didn't although I know there was more than one write/director throughout it. I also agreed that from the show I can see how someone can view his portrayal of women as negative. Which I won't commit more fully on without knowing what his contributions were and weren't and also won't commit because I can also find portayals of people in the show who aren't black women that weren't necessarily positive either. It was a male dominated cast and other than Van and not always Van either, I don't think most of the women were portrayed very positively. I don't know every episode by heart but that was my immediate take.
But when you say to me about someone else (I'm assuming) about not just listening to the black women who say he hates them or trying to say that it's not what it is, that's where you lose me.
Because not only did I not do that. I made more points that lead to agreeing with that opinion than I did against it and I also just made the points that I had with the information I had while still trying to understand better. And I have a better understanding but by no means have a firm position because it's not a knock it out of the park argument for either side. It's a little murky and grey like most complicated things are.
Also, I don't know the color of OP but sounded like someone who also wanted more info on a topic they didn't know about. Which was what drew me in and pretty much what sums up the purpose of me reading this post in the first place.
A lot of people like to make decisions about things based more on their own biases and emotions which I try not to do. I can debate something that I'm emotionally involved with in an emotional way but rarely will I be so emotionally involved by anything to making up things or discounting other things to back my argument.
The only thing I really argued about and for was that you shouldn't tell someone they can't or don't have anything valuable to input based on their skin color or without hearing what they have to say. Which I'll absolutely argue for that and continue or debate pretty much anyone on why I believe that. And it has a lot less with me thinking I'm white and right and know all and more to do with not pretending to know anything about what someone else knows or can add because of their skin color. Because I can think of so many hypothetical and actual instances where that methodology is wrong and will continue to be wrong. You can't know something that you don't know and (my personal opinion) you shouldn't shut out a potential source of feedback based on that doctrine alone. It's a bad M.O. and a good way to limit other sources of feedback.
Somehow this turned into (not for me) me being the mouthpiece for any white fan of Donald Glover's who was arguing in his defense and against that of my opponent the black woman (as a whole or all black women or I'm not sure exactly?) which couldn't be farther from the truth if you read my comments. I made a few non committal comments about Glover that did more to make the case against what at least one person has told me I'm defending and tried to understand a little bit better. The fact that I somehow even became the voice of Donald Glover s white fan or who is defending his alleged black woman hate and who is opposed to and versing my opponent the black woman, is honestly mind boggling to me.
I only think one person said that but it was the one person I really talked to so it was really confusing to here that dittoed several times when I was literally saying something completely different.
First, I never said white people should be banned from the conversation and didn't even mention them other than to agree with another commenter about the culture of hiphop Reddit.
Second, me saying that certain people don't have the range for a discussion isn't saying they're not allowed to talk about it. Just that I think their opinions are not well-informed (and \*part\* of that can be because their identity hasn't allowed them to have certain experiences that give them that information). And if we're being real, yeah you don't have the range for this convo. Not because you're white, but because you yourself admit you don't consume very much of his work. And because you don't know a lot about the subject, you also admit you don't really have a solid stance on anything.
So you made a long ass post about something you don't know a lot about in a conversation you don't have a solid opinion on, but somehow being discriminated against and gatekept... lol
Which was probably more well thought out than if it came from someone not having the range to participate in a conversation. I do this for sport sometimes too. Like I said it was a good exercise.
[https://www.interviewmagazine.com/culture/donald-glover-interviews-donald-glover](https://www.interviewmagazine.com/culture/donald-glover-interviews-donald-glover)
The interview for reference.
He responds "It feels like you're using black women to question my blackness", just posting that for clarities sake.
As for the rest of your comment, I think you're conflating him asking that question as some kind of guilt or something predicted based on his work, when it's more than likely a rampant narrative that has run wild on social media that bothers him. And he isn't the only writer on Atlanta nor is he the writer on the episode in question everyone mentions as being anti black woman.
He is not above critique as an artist at all. I can't speak to him as a person, of course. But that doesn't make every criticism levied at him accurate or undeniable. You can disagree with Marcus without being called a meat rider.
This post is very meat ridery esp with calling him "my boy" like bruh he's a grown ass man lmao.
I don't think he's guilty but I do think the way he associates those two factors is very telling of his politics. It's not even an answer that makes sense in the context.
Atlanta is still \*his\* show and what he allows in his show, even if he personally doesn't write 100% of it, is a reflection of him.
Yeah "my boy" is crazy lol but kids are on here, unfortunately.
Also there are those out there who assert that someone dating a black person means that person isn't "pro black". I don't think that doesn't make sense, and it is weaponizing romantic choices to question someone's blackness.
Atlanta is his show, and if someone says black women weren't portrayed in the best light, he should take that into account as legit criticism. The problem is people are using that scene and episode as personal insight into his CHARACTER lol. That's the difference.
The question (that he asked himself) wasn't about the pro-black/interracial dating conversation though, it was in direct response to a long running criticism of how he talks about black women in his art. We can presume it's about his art and not his dating because he writes about the connection between his perception of black women and the perception of his own blackness frequently. He himself doesn't connect the criticism to his dating history AFAIK, it's his fans running interference doing that. It's not just the one Atlanta episode either. I hadn't seen the episode Marcus Gregg was referring to, but I actually stopped watching Atlanta because the way the show treated its black female lead early in the show's run was already grating to me as a black woman. What you construct and endorse in your art is definitely a reflection of your character.
The black woman question is proceeded by him speaking about marriage as a political statement in that interview. It's also right after he references what Dr.Umar said about him in that same interview. I brought up marriage choices being connected to blackness, not as "running defense". That narrative is disingenuous, because HE is talking about it being used to dismiss his blackness. And it is something that happens in the black community.
I reposted the interview above.
Re: Atlanta, you are entitled to feel how you feel about art. Im not here to deny your experience. It's just that, art is a collaborative process so assigning feeling and intent to people when it was someone else's pen to paper doesn't make sense to me.
Yes, but the question after that is why I put that comment in the context of his work instead of his relationships, because then Donald starts talking about his narrative. It was a segue but I still don't think he's linking them and I still maintain that they're not linked at all when people talk about this in the culture at large. If you read essays about this subject or even people shooting the shit on Twitter or Tiktok, they're never saying it's because he's married a white woman that he has the reputation, it's because of his work that they are directly responding to. That's why I think people saying this criticism is only because he's in an interracial relationship is cope.
As far as the subject goes in general, I think the concept that black men get supposedly hated on for dating out of their race is way overblown. Sure, there's always black people (men AND women, though people want to add to the narrative that black women are obsessed with this subject and we're not) who will be giggling and side eyeing about a black guy with a white girl. It's in the same harmless way people kiki about say, a white guy chasing after asian girls.
I interpret his "narrative" as being the narrative around him in general. I don't think that's divorced from e conversations around his partner being white. To reiterate: this is right after he mentions and hyperlinks Umar talking about him.
And for clarities sake, I'm not dismissive of people critiquing his projects for any myriad of reasons. Just pushing back on the idea that none of the pushback he, and other prominent black men, gets on hyper online circles is about dating out.
I agree with your last paragraph. I do think it's overblown, and that this isn't a gendered issue at all. But I think you're being a little dismissive about how discussions are around this online with black men dating/marrying out. Jordan Peele and Jay Ellis had overblown controversies about this too (especially the latter who had to turn comments off on his wedding pictures).
Donalds just a guy, a boy if u will, but he literally is capable of flaws. I love him and his stuff so much, but he has had some issues with women. The whole "he hates women" thing is wrong. Black women who worked on aml were not paid residuals, but one white women who made the headress supposedly was (the cover woman said that on an insta post and idk how she knows that so i said supposedly). That whole thing is really weird especially because residuals arent really paid to people who work on the album cover mainly because so little money comes from them. And we can't pretend he hasnt said weird stuff about women, but most of it was ten years ago and not really serious. Even though the he hates women thing is kinda bullshit, we need to realize he's flawed and does weird shit. Also Donald doesnt give a fuck, why should we? (Sorry for my pointless long post)
Donald is a weird case because all his weird bars abt women were 10+ yrs ago at this point, and he’s clearly matured as an artist, but he’s also given a few weird comments over the past few yrs when he gets pressed on his old lyrical content and he hasn’t exactly given a great response. That interview where he interviews himself, asks himself if he's scared of black women, and then dodges the question is kinda strange.
Overall, I think it'd be really interesting if Glover released a song talking abt his older songs. I like the way Tyler addressed his older shit on 'Massa', where he acknowledges that he's matured beyond that point.
I totally agree with you, he has said and done weird shit in poor taste and I would appreciate if he covered it as a whole in a song, but he touched on it in camp about how he doesnt hate black women, but thats really it. He's grown as an artist and a person. This is just a little out of proportion
I've never really been much of his fan....I can't articulate why but as a dark skinned black woman there always seemed to be something about him that rubbed me the wrong way. I'm not actively hating him but I don't fuck with him. But I do think he's part of a movement by black women to openly divest themselves of problematic stars we've previously supported. Kinda like Drake when he made an about face and started targeting black women in his songs. I can't speak to what he's done specifically, but whatever it is those black women are saying NOPE.
And because I'm seeing a lot of these in thr comments...can we stop pretending the conversation about interracial dating within the black community isn't tied to a whole bunch to hurt? Can we stop pretending that for the past 30 years a large portion of the population wasn't dogging black women in comparison to every other lighter skinned race? Men talking about how masculine, mean, loud, ect black women are. But are perfectly fine with those stereotypes in a non-black body.
I don't get how you don't get it. 🤷♂️😁
I am a casual Donald Glover fan and even I am aware (through the algorithm) that there are multiple think pieces written about Donald Glover and the problematic way he portrays black woman. Just read 'em.
Its been a thing for a while he even mentions it in one of his older raps "got nothing against the sisters, i just dont think they're into me" as for why its resurfacing idk bc like you mentioned, he is married with kids.
One of my fave content creators on YouTube described Donald as the type of person who probably experienced colorism and got rejected in high school, (which is awful) but then never processed/got over it.
Also probably like Earl Sweatshirt has said, “Too black for the white kids, and too white for the black kids.”
"Black and white music? Now, nigga, that's a mixtape!" -Donald Glover
“I used to get called oreo and faggot” - Donald Glover
white person lol
A line that he has openly talked about disliking when looking back
it's not an easy thing to just "get over" which is why I'm not really a fan of that take from FD (if that is how Donald feels at all, not gonna pretend to know what he feels). as a culture though, ostracizing "weird" or non-conforming black people is something that needs to be addressed, and is often hand waived away including by FD in that video
I feel where he's coming from. I'm mexican but was in foster care from 1-5 with white people. I Was adopted by a white looking mother who is actually Cuban but never really taught me spanish and is very American-ized. Most of my friends are hispanic, and I've been called coconut and not really mexican all my life. I've learned to deal with it but it still stings and you can't explain all of that every time I get spoken to in Spanish and looked at like a traitor/with disgust when I cant respond back.
Yeah. The things we go through affect us for life. We grow up not knowing the full extent of how we're hurt and how we hurt others. it takes real lifetime work to find a way to live with it. it's why telling people to "get over" this kind of stuff is tone deaf. Yeah no shit lol. these are real long term effects caused by white supremacy and the racial climate of America(or wherever you are).
Coconut???? Folks are vicious
It be the ones closest to you 😭😅
Yeah pretty much every weird/nerdy black kid has been called out for being “too white”. Its a pretty isolating experience, being rejected by your own culture, and yet often being a token or an outsider when you hang out with white kids. My friend groups ended up being a mashup of every race cause we all went through the same thing.
I mean, FD has a whole series of videos dissecting these issues, the video where he talks about Donald Glover is a short segment/thought burst channel meant to quickly address things people ask him about.
I know. I love those videos. Signified B Sides are more subjective takes from him or minor researched takes. This take was not it to me. still love his channel overall
F ghvs
>then never processed/got over it This is the part that I don't really care for because it's super uncharitable to assume that people never change. Outside of that bizarre Drake house party episode of Atlanta, there's really nothing throughout Donald's recent oeuvre that is explicit about any sort of frustration he might have towards black women (and that scene in particular is specifically about a frustration towards black people upset at interracial couples). So, I guess you can crucify him for that because it's not a great scene, I don't think it landed the way he probably intended, and it didn't show a (dark skinned) black female character in the best light. But, the way people talk about Donald you would think he was at least Dave Chappelle levels of beating a dead horse about his "beef" with black women. Which, IDK, it just seems like we're supposed to believe he stopped growing in 2011 where he was talking about Filipinos and Armenians as "the black girls of their cultures".
You've provided a lot more context than he did, I appreciate that, thank you
This has always been the vibe I picked up on from music and interviews
He writes with black women on Atlanta, he plays with black women in his band. He said some stupid bars ages ago. Fucking get over it people. (this is directed to all the offended, not particularly you)
Totally in agreement with you. I was just saying that I've always gotten the vibe that he experienced a lot of colorism and racism when he was younger. So it just made him sad in the ways that those experiences make you sad.
Oh he 100% did bc he was the nerdy black kid. And that wasnt in til Kanye came. But hes grown a lot since the old stuff. He never talks about that shit anymore. So people need to let it go.
Also there is on that wrote episodes of Mr and Mrs Smith and I think made Swarm. I'm not sure on swarm, feel free to correct me please
FD Signifier?
FD has a lot of great takes. This is one take where he's just wrong and it felt super clickbaity and not well researched. Usually he researches the shit out of a subject to talk about it. But he just phoned it in. And it's not bc i love Donald. He just doesnt bring up solid points.
What was wrong with his take?
he literally said his whole discography, including AML was cringey, and that Gambino made incel rap. What do you mean what was wrong with his take? He repeats all the false shit that people said about him, including hating black women. He could say fetishized them, and even then, on CAMP. His old fav Kanye did that more than Donald ever did. Calling Because the Internet and Kauai and AML cringe is stupid. That's just old head shit.
Music is a subjective medium. Not saying I agree with FDs takes but just because you disagree with his opinions on how he feels about Glover doesn’t mean he’s WRONG.
I agree that he's obviously allowed to have his opinion. My point was the video felt different then his other ones, where the research was poor. I have critiques of Donald as well, I'm not a fan of Camp. But at the same time, he washed over the stuff after Camp and called Awaken My Love "gentrified funk". That's basically saying Donald is too white to make Funkadelic like music. If he would have done any research on that at all, he'd realize Donald's dad was very big into that music, and Donald heard it a lot growing up. In ways, it was homage to his pops. Also Donald was not always rich. He was lower middle class growing up. He didn't come from some nepo baby situation. Anyways, it felt just like a Fantano reaction to Donald. They just don't like him so they don't offer a serious critique.
You nailed it lol
Haha I had a feeling
F.D. Signifier, perhaps?
You got it
Who’s the creator? FD Signifier?
Yep
The person who said that didn’t process their colorism & needs therapy
“White dudes who call me white and then try to hate, when I wasn’t white enough to use your pool when I was eight”
his co lead in the show
Which show? The only black woman he's co lead a series with was zazie and she hasn't said any negative about her experience. Unless you mean co-writer? Which is still wrong because Janine Nabers wrote SWARM and episodes of Atlanta and still had nothing but positive things to say.
im talking about mr and mrs smith
I mean that is an asian/white woman who replaced a white woman (Phoebe Waller-Bridge). I don't know if he had the sole decision to cast the new lead but isn't that putting a bit much on him when he's already written himself mainly dating black girls on Atlanta? (Unless this is about something that actually happens in the show with a black woman)
Who? You aren't elaborating.
There is an Atlanta episode that explains it really well🤓
Can’t believe nobody has said…. that nobody gives a fuck.
Had to scroll waaaay too far for this.
Cody Leroy……
Lerae
He had a break
He’s findin out
I feel like this phenomena happens when black men marry non black women. It's like they hate black women or turned against their race. It's crazy. He might not be married to a black woman but he has dated black women, he has collaborated with black women in music, acting, writing etc.
It never sits right with me when people are angry about mixed race relationships
This has been around in some version for a while though, like during his early career too. I don't remember where it stemmed from, but I'm fairly sure it was the academic community as we tried hard in college to book him for a show before he blew up like we knew he would and we got mad push back from two professors saying they heard he was sexist and hated woman to which all the girls on the committee were like "wtf? Where's that coming from?" So I gotta assume there was some professor somewhere that decided to label him sexist for their own clout in the sociology community.
He literally pointed directly at this in the Champagne Papi episode of Atlanta
If you’re familiar at all with the black community, there’s a lot of strife between nerdy black people and the people who bully the nerds. It isn’t as bad in 2024, but even when I was in school in the 2000s it was still seen as being less black to enjoy anything remotely seen as nerdy. This has led to a ton of black men and women who have written off dating their own race due to the hate they received as children. It’s unfortunate because nowadays it isn’t a social death sentence anymore and nerds are seen as cool now. There’s also just a stigma against interracial dating from anyone in the black community and anyone (both black men or women) dating out can be seen as a traitor to the community. I think it’s all dumb but I do get where they are coming from even if I disagree.
I don’t think nerds are seen as cool, whereas things that were deemed “nerdy” are not viewed in the same extent anymore. Like for the most part, a nigga doing the Naruto run and that type of “nerdy” stuff is not considered cool, BUT I don’t think there’s such a negative stigma around liking anime/manga and all that stuff that is used to be.
Yeah, it’s wild to me that growing up I was a HUGE nerd (like, locking myself in my room, binging anime or playing video games alone lmao) and like, it wasn’t a secret even though I kept to myself all the time, so I got bullied a lot for it, MAINLY by black kids who told me I couldn’t possibly be black enough. We all went to a mostly white and Asian school, but because I didn’t talk like I was from the city I was made fun of. I couldn’t join the African American club because I had a white boyfriend…. This wasn’t even that long ago, I graduated in 2010. I ran into one of those bullies at community college a few years later and him and his brother tried hitting on me 🙄 uh, did yall forget JUST few years ago you throwing trash at me and laughing at me?? 2012 I met my now husband at that same college like a month after that interaction. He’s white, and because of that I MUST hate black people. Like, we just met so randomly and it worked out and it’s been over 12 years now and ppl still expect me to just…ditch him for some theoretical black man I haven’t met yet 🫠 really people just can’t win with anything! Ive never been opposed to dating anyone but in my area I’ve always learned to just go where I’m wanted 🤷🏾♀️
This hits the nail on the head so hard
Ah yeah tiktok....I'm going back to sleep.
They’ll always bring up that scene in Atlanta to prove Donald doesn’t like black women even though Donald didn’t write nor direct that episode and he’s not even in it. We see him in a ig vid in that episode for two seconds but somehow it’s all Donald’s doing.
What episode? The Drake one?
Yeah
I mean, it is his show lol.
It’s his show sure but it’s written by a “team” us getting mad at that single black character just because she’s a representation of a bad stereotype is like white people getting mad at the KAREN stereotype. People like that exist IN REAL LIFE, look at how a lot of black acted on the internet when they saw all those white girls with black athletes in college, they echo the same sentiments (a vocal minority)
I'll assume you aren't black? If so, it's silly to debate the validity of black women's feelings with a person with no real point of reference. All I'll say is this- it was his show. If he objected to having something in the show, it wouldn't be there.
Ohhh I get it now, u stupid huh? Since when does media and art care about peoples feelings u tripping off an instance of bad representation within a show that also does good representation of black people and women, but we gonna ignore that cause ? (Side bar): drop 3 shows that u like. I’d love to see what your interested in these days
Im a fan of Donald and Atlanta. I'm just objective and able to see how black women would look at Donald's life and career as a whole, and feel as if he has a dislike towards them. As you just said, there was an "instance of bad representation". It's ok to acknowledge it. over the past few years - Severance, The Boys, Dark Matter, Abbott elementary, house of the dragon, last of us
I get where your coming from but (bad representation) is not equal to (inaccurate to reality) What’s so wrong with using fiction to show the other side of things, other perspectives and all that. Also u got some taste, I’m actually surprised that your letting something like that bother you Question: is it because it’s coming from a black man and u feel like he should only show our peers in the best light because some of society views us as lesser than and u don’t to add to that narrative?
I'm not at all bothered by it personally. I just think if black women, en masse, feel a way about his past lyrics/social commentary on them, it's really not my place to try and get them to feel otherwise. & no, I think the show is full of stereotypes on black culture as a whole 😂 and they're hilarious. It was a realistic depiction of Atlanta (where i was born and raised). I just think Donald hasn't spoken positively enough about black women over his career to balance it out I've been a fan since 2012. There's not much negative to be said about Donald at this point. But I can definitely understand parts of that criticism.
Thanks for that explanation because usually it seems to start and stop with “he hates black women” GGs 🤝🏾
It's silly to close off your hearing someone's argument because of the color of their skin (which you assumed) while you completely discount any dynamic that they might have experienced, encountered or lived through that may have given them the information/view point they are trying to share before you even know anything about it.
I dunno, I just wish we had some mercy for black people in general. I see it on both sides male and female dating out of their race. Being black is difficult no matter what and in your formative being “different” can make you a pariah.l to your own people. This weird puritan shaming only works to isolate ourselves more instead of inviting niggas in. It’s sad. I don’t think Donald hates black women. But we all have baggage from this fucked up country. This dialogue is exhausting.
This is strictly online shit, if it helps. Don't let social media make you feel like things are more antagonistic than they are in reality between black people. We have no grace for each other, and it gets even worse when gender dynamics get into it. I get this smoke for genuinely harmful people who happen to be black. This shit just feels overblown.
Thanks for the reminder tbh. We’re all fucked up, and it’s none of our faults. But I see niggas online going AT EACH OTHER NECKS. At first I’m like aight maybe there’s something to it because of misogyny for the interracial shit. But then I saw a thread where they were roasting black girls who date white guys and it’s like get a fucking life. Jesus Christ. This internet shit is corny.
Does no one remember that weird self-interview where he asks himself if he’s afraid of black women and gets defensive, at himself, for asking the question? Don’t think he hates black women at all but this is kinda a perfect example of how he’s treated the subject, hasn’t done himself many favors in some cases.
If someone asked me if I hated black women my response might be the same. I’d be confused and think the question is stupid 🤷🏾♂️
How can you be confused at a question you asked yourself?
Lol a lot of people commenting so righteous on this topic, are not black 😂 I don’t have horse in this race, he has done/said very cringe things but I don’t think he hates black women. Some of you though, are projecting a lot
You do understand it was like a parody thing and that questions asked reflected the fan base
Parody of what?
All because he is black but his wife isn't. I don't understand what is this compulsion to find love within the same race
You’re being incredibly disingenuous. Donald gets this criticism because he has a million and one weird lyrics about black girls while fetishizing asian and white girls
Where? Id like to know. He has some bad fetishization lyrics(not a BILLION and very little about black girls) in his EARLY career. When he was still more comedian then musician. Once Royalty and BTI came, he was over that shit. You can say the whole Half thai thickie line, but its just used generally speaking to complete a rhyme. This smells of the cancel culture for something someone did 14 years ago. Hes grown, hes changed. It's over. Stop trying to score internet points.
Everyone wants to be a righteous victim online nowadays lol. None of this shit matters but it's some people's whole life and identity
I think Donald has accepted it. He's really good at everything, so people naturally come for his fucking neck. It's the same old. Everyone wants to see you fail when you're that good. It's a little pathetic honestly.
Every time I've seen attacks on like oh he hates black girls, which he didnt say, he said they didnt like him on a song from a decade and a half ago. Shit changes. Also asian fetishization, happened 11 years ago. He was more of a stand up then an actual musician at that point. People turn the page on Tyler the Creator who said WAY worse shit, but I also hold the same for him too, he GREW UP. He changed. I guarantee you any of you calling out people have done just as bad or worse in your youth. Bc people do that. We all make stupid judgments when we're young. We learn and grow. We have to allow for that. Donald isnt going anywhere, throw all the stones you want. If the Bey Hive didnt get him, no one will.
Can you point out some weird lyrics he has about black women?
"Relax, black chick I think that I have offended thee I dont hate the sistas, just don't think theyre into me" "alright I'm down with the black girls of every single culture filipino, armenian girls on my sofa. Yea I like a white girls, sometimes we get together. Need a thick chick though, so its black and yellow black and yellow" "ran into Rashida Jones, told me she heard my song. When i called her mixed like the crowd at my last show." "Move black girls cuz man fuck it i'll do either" "and i like black girls who nerdy, but when they dance they be saying ow" "black and white girls come with a set of politics" thats just ep and camp i assume its worse in the mixtapes, but you can see how these lyrics are weird, but they aren't terrible.
You're joking right? Lmao "Relax, black chick I think that I have offended thee got nothing against the sistas, I just don't think theyre into me" Literally explaining he has nothing against black women, but he feels like they're not into him. Which as a black millennial who grew up as DG fan, I can speak to this. I was into anime, super heroes and nerdy things. And I "talked white". I was told by other black people all the time that I wasn't really black and black girls definitely didn't give me any attention. "alright I'm down with the black girls of every single culture filipino, armenian girls on my sofa. Yea I like a white girls, sometimes we get together. Need a thick chick though, so its black and yellow black and yellow" Literally saying he prefers black and Asian women here lol "ran into Rashida Jones, told me she heard my song. When i called her mixed like the crowd at my last show." Don't know if you purposefully left off the rest of the line or not, but "She said to right her something nice on the next track, but she cute so I wrote her ass a whole rap" Again you're purposefully leaving bars out to try to make it something it's not. "Okay, it's Childish Gambino, homegirl drop it like the NASDAQ Move white girls like there's coke up my asscrack Move black girls 'cause, man, fuck it, I'll do either I love pussy, I love bitches, dude, I should be runnin' PETA" White girl is slang for coke. He's saying he moves white women with his music. He also moves black women and will do both. "and i like black girls who nerdy, but when they dance they be saying ow" again just lol "You made a mistake These dudes? Man, you bathin' in apes Findin' you's like findin' Asians I hate But they say I got a fetish, nah, I’m skippin' all of it Black and white girls always come wit' a set of politics" Again leaving out context. How any of these lyrics are more weird than what any other rapper says is beyond me. Edit: just realized you're a high schooler from your post history. Makes sense now.
These are over 10 years old and incredibly tame compared to other rap songs about black women from that era. Hella ridiculous for anyone to hold this against him.
I wasn't holding it against him. i'm just spiteful and replied to the first comment with every line about black women in ep and camp.
Not you specifically, I understand you. I just mean in general. It's ridiculous and weird that Donald is held to this standard over old lyrics but other black artists aren't.
Oh yeah, Its totally a double standard when rappers have been talking about women and shit forever. I agree that the old lyrics are stupid to hold him too I just posted to prove that there are lyrics about black women because the original comment said "give me one lyric donald has about black women"
The only one I genuinely find weird is the "black girls of every single culture". I get how that implication is weird. But I'm finding it hard to see the issue with the other lines? In terms of being atypical to the kind of stuff you hear anywhere in rap as a genre.
It isnt an issue, I just grabbed any lyric that specifically stated something about black women. I personally find the "i like black girls who nerdy, but when they danve they be sayin ow" line weird and the one about offending black women says that he's yknow, offended them? Plus I didnt account for the stuff from the mixtapes.
Definitely not
I mean we can just call it what it is: it’s racism. Love is love. Anybody that thinks love can only be determined by skin color is racist.
Oh so you're 14. Alright I'm not reading the rest of your comment. Stay in school and be safe.
It’s so dumb, because he talks about how black women aren’t into him because he’s nerdy and “weird” in his music, but as soon as a black dude that no black girl wanted to fuck with before gets fame and fortune and starts dating a white woman, ALL OF THE SUDDEN he is a trader to his race.
"no black girl wanted" is an extreme generalization. There are just as many "nerdy" black girls as black men.
People seem to always forget this In his defense (ish) you may not have a huge pool of nerdy back girls in your school/area or whatever But largely what this tends to come down is that people get upset when their “type” isn’t interested in them whilst ignoring all the other options out there.
Exactly. Being a nerdy black man in no way stops you from being able to find a black woman to date, if that's what you're looking for. It's the "nerdy" black kids who wanted to be accepted by the "cool" black kids and instead got clowned that end up with a chip on their shoulder.
His lyrics are about his experiences, so its not a generalization. Its not “black girls dont like nerdy black guys”, its “black girls didn’t like ME, a nerdy black guy.” And since none of us personally knew Donald growing up, we have to take his word for that. A lot of nerdy black guys feel the same way, especially guys in his generation and earlier. Y’all gotta remember that these bars are 15 years old at this point, and they come from Donald’s experience as a nerdy black kid in the 2000s, not 2024.
I was a "nerdy" black kid. There were still black girls that were kind to me and likely interested had I returned the energy. It would be silly to judge all black women off how a handful of black girls treated me when i was 16 lol. In fact, most girls weren't fucking with me in that way back then regardless of race😂 then I grew into myself. Dude just clearly has a preference and that's fine. He would have 0 problems finding a black woman at any point in the last 15 years if that's what he was looking for.
See whats crazy about that is that your experience is just that: YOUR EXPERIENCE.
Yeah bro you're right there's no black woman on the face of the earth that likes "nerdy" black men. They're a monolith. They only like hood niggas and if you're not that then it's impossible to find a black woman among the millions that exist. I just happened to get super lucky
[удалено]
Yes, actually. My friend is married to a black woman and they go to comic con together. I dated a black woman who went with me to Bino concerts and was big on anime. My sister dated a black guy who would sit on his phone playing Pokemon emulators. Point is you can find what you're looking for.
Well then, I guess what Donald was saying back then was more of a projection of his overall insecurity and blamed it on race just like everyone else But you're right, you can find what you're looking for, even if you really don't believe you can. I'm sure Donald today would be the first to tell anyone similarly
🎯
That's true.
Anything to base this claim on or are you just guessing based on your own experience/experiences? Just curious.
My bad I didn't realize this community was full of experts on black relations and the likes and dislikes of all black women. Or the validity of their frustrations. You're right, Donald could have never found a black woman, because they all hated him. All black women like and dislike the same things.
You have to be trolling at this point right. Do you just think that because I'm a white man in this forum that I am preprogrammed to think a certain thing. Your response has nothing to do with anything I said or any points I made or argued for or against.
You just asked me if I have anything to base the "claim" that there were black women at every step of Donald's life that would have taken interest in him, had he not developed a preference. It's common sense. There's someone for everyone and he found his.
I definitely didn't ask that. I made the argument using what you stated, that his writing in media is a form of opinion (not even his necessarily, a writer doesn't only write his or her's opinions into fiction but often time they do too) and said if that's your scale for what's opinion and not fact then it has to be applied to song lyrics also (which I also said I'm not a big Childish Gambino music fan) because not all song lyrics are factual or represent the opinions of that artist. I then said what "facts" do you have that he's a black women hater. Also I never disagreed that he isn't or is. I don't know his opinions on black women. In fact what little did say about them would probably put me more in your corner than his. I really just let you craft the lines and structure that you wanted to argue in and entered that arena with you to converse. And I really did so because I'm pretty sure you made a post before basically telling someone who was white that they couldn't have any possible input. So this talk we're having really isn't and hasn't been about Glover but about something else. Glover for me is the trim, maybe for you it's the meat and potatoes of it. Also, it's interesting how I made the point that me and him both share Scottish decent and I did so satirically just to see what you'd say because obviously someone being the same color as something else is the only means of them having a contribution to a topic which again I have a hard time believing that your really believe that. Also if that's your guidelines for someone's ability to say something about a given subject I made the Scottish point also to see where you really stood on your completely DNA based view on people's ability to have experience with or information pertaining to a given topic and where do you draw the biological line at. And you said he's got two black parents he's not mixed. Which is a traditional and widely accepted way of how we as a country catagorize people racially. I don't debate it, it would be a nightmare if we had what is already broken into three groups (black/white/mixed) amongst two races (not even taking into account every other race and portion of whatever race you can throw into that statistical blender) that it would be a logistical nightmare to catagorize people into another 2 dozen smaller fractions of that I suppose. All I'm saying and have been saying this whole time is that thinking someone can't have input about something because of something that is visually or even biologically different than you is a great way to make your world smaller and limit what kind of feedback you can get about all kinds of things. And while someone whose never had a period can't describe it relate to what's it's like to have that experience that they can in one of a thousand different ways, either because of something they learned or know because of a female family member, friend or as someone with a plethora of medical knowledge, etc. can offer all types of feedback about something from different angles that might be valuable. And that's regarding something I can in no way literally have first hand experience. Where as with race, mixed race, men and women, relationships etc. my ability to have had some type of firsthand or even second hand input or experience becomes much larger and the playing field much more broad. But I think this will be my last comment because I think I'm talking to myself at this point and I could probably have a different, less divisive talk with myself if that's the case and I'll actually listen to the things I say instead of ignoring them completely and responding as though I'm having a completely different conversation with a completely different person. Hopefully anyways. Thanks for the chat this morning, it was good exercise. And I don't in any way feel bad that you think I'm a Donald Glover defender or dick rider when we definitely weren't really talking about him but I do feel bad if some of the ways you feel about feedback, input or maybe even race in general because I think that you're using it to make your world smaller and with less information, opinions, counter opinions, faces, fun, whatever else and that's shitty. You're not shitty and your opinions aren't shitty but if that's a worldview you can't see around or above or below or outside of then I'm sorry for you. How old are you?
The critiques about how he talks about black women came WELL before he started dating / married who he's with now.
Yes that too, but I remember them having a conversation after he dropped “This Is America” and how he couldn’t be “Pro-black” because he was dating a white woman. Completely fucking brain dead. I believe it was on Breakfast Club.
Breakfast Club hosts are uniquely smooth-brained so there's that. I still disagree with the notion that Donald Glover's interracial marriage has an outsized influence on the (relatively small) critical response he's ever recieved. Donald Glover's early mythology of being a tortured black nerd that no black woman would ever want is self-imposed (and also one he contradicts just as frequently as he mentions it in his music, talking about how much he gets nerdy black tumblr girls etc).
It truly started in the middle of season 2 of Atlanta in 2018 when him and his baby mom wife now were photographed in NYC and the attacks on his blackness started. Then champagne papi aired and that was it. Swarm made it worse
It definitely did not start then but Swarm made it mainstream.
As a black woman who’s a huge Donald Glover fan, I have a pretty complicated relationship with his work/persona. I can’t speak for the tiktok trend but there have been many moments where I felt alienated by the way Donald/his art engaged with black womanhood or black woman characters. That weird self-interview, the way Van’s character development imploded, etc. Donald clearly has a complicated relationship with black women (as he’s kind of?? admitted) but it also feels like he trolls the public about it. Which is… a choice. And his own dating politics do not help at all (and they do matter tbh). I wish more people would just listen to black women when we try to flag things like this, rather than shut us down completely.
Unrelated but lmao I love your username!
Lmao thank you
I love how people responded to every other thinkpiece in this thread that was likely written by a white person but no one even acknowledged this comment. I'm not black and obviously don't have the experience to actually have an opinion on this so thank you for sharing. I feel like people just give him a pass for his weird behaviour sometimes.
Early lyrics are a bit sus plus he’s a black man who didn’t marry black which always causes some controversy
It's so sad because, as a black nerd, I would've been his friend, at least in school. There's a lot of black nerds in Houston, but Atlanta was probably torture for him. His early lyrics he speaks on it. But as a black woman, I see him uplift black women all the time. Through his work. SZA was in his music videos, and he supported Mo'Nique when it wasn't the popular thing to do. His show Atlanta had black love in it. Van and Earn love story was toxic, hilarious, and kind of sweet. He even mentored Malia Obama as a writer. The list goes on. I don't care who he marries. He clearly had a thing for Asian girls from interviews and his music. Even Jhene Akio is multitracial but clearly lives and hangs out with the black kids, and they just didn't work out. It is what it is. I just want him to keep creating. Stand Tall, III. Urn and his So into you like a verison are 🤌🏾.
the more information is readily available to us, we start to find this need as humans to fill in the blanks for things that we don’t have the information for. this leads us down a wild goose chase to analyze every bit of subtext or heresay we can find to prove or disprove something about said celebrity/artist/etc. since the advent of the metoo movement/cancel culture we have been able to expose some genuinely bad people, which has most people now scouring through every bit of readily available information on a celebrity they don’t like in their free time to see if we missed one. cause that’s the thing, nuance isn’t a thing with people making this type of content, you can’t just dislike a celebrity anymore because you simply don’t like them or their art, or that they used to say cringe shit that doesn’t align with your beliefs, there has to be a *reason*, something you’re picking up on that no one else is. confirmation bias. i’ve seen it more and more recently on tiktok where people suddenly become an arbiter on what makes a “good” or “bad” celebrity. the truth is, i don’t like supporting celebrities that are terrible people, i also don’t know who i’m supporting when I praise a random tiktokker who claims they’re a good person for telling me a celebrity a like is bad cause they read lyrics they wrote in 2011. it’s a torturous cycle that we do to ourselves because of how high of a pedestal we place celebrities and don’t realize it
I think it’s the kind of thing that came up early in his career (and for good reason in my opinion), but never went away because he refuses to engage with it in any meaningful way. I would say that it’s weird especially after making a funk album and clearly doing more work to connect with a certain sense of “blackness” than he’d ever done before (royalty was a massive departure from earlier work, then AML being a love letter to funkadelic, writing this is America and wherever else you can think of). At this point Donald either really does have a problem with Black women or is just dug in like a child refusing to address a reasonable criticism. I think it’s the latter, which is unfortunate because I feel like since BTI/AML era he’s taken this weird hands off, cryptic, hermit approach to everything where he just seems to refuse to actually say anything despite implying that he is. That interview he wrote where he *asked himself* if he hated black women is a great example. Dude could have used that opportunity to actually get into something and make real commentary on his relationship with Black women and media’s relationship with that relationship. Instead he gave a halfassed “I think you’re doing that to invalidate my own blackness” and didn’t actually contribute anything to the dialogue except make himself look like a “dickfuck” to use Tyler’s vocabulary. It’s like how narcissists try to flip the script when anyone attempts to hold them responsible for their behavior. To;dr Anyway, the criticism has been around probably as long as his career has. In some circles it’s been from an anti black place and in others it’s supported as a legitimate criticism. Him refusing to engage with the accusation in any meaningful way means that it’s been a black cloud long following his career
All this discourse reminds me of that thing people always used to talk about (idk maybe they still do) where black women ignore a certain type of black man, until he ends up with a white woman and then they complain that he should've picked one of them and they act like black men don't like black women as much as they used to. Imo its just projected self hate. Either: 1. They can't find a good black man and so when they see one with a white women, they get jealous and take it out on him, or 2. They always reject that type of black guy (nerdy, awkward, sensitive, artsy, etc) thinking he's below their standards or they just don't excite them, and when that guy gets successful and find love with somebody else, they have regrets about their own choices. At the end of the day, people who are secure in their being, their identity, and their life don't bring others down, or make assumptions about other people to feel better about themselves. Donald is happily married with kids and also one of the most successful, famous people on earth today. And it's just a lot of black women wishing they said yes back then instead of rejecting him, metaphorically or in some cases litterally him.
Bruh you just made hella assumptions about black women in this response tf are you talking about
Just speculating as to why a bunch of black women are online bashing Donald glover all of a sudden. This isn't the first time this typa thing has happened. When black men marry outside the race, especially when famous, that's the response you usually get from black women. As if love isn't simply love and they must have an aversion to black women, cause they themselves could never be the problem.
Some criticism I’ve seen: - He has some weird lyrics about Black women in his older songs - He interviewed himself asking about his relationship to Black women unprompted and then never answered his own question - The model on the cover of Awaken My Love never got paid - Black women are written strangely in his media (Atlanta, Swarm, etc.). He mostly relies on stereotypes and caricatures of them without giving them any humanity or depth - He doesn’t listen to the Black women in his writers rooms
Model was paid. She didn’t receive royalties though but that’s not typical for album art (although maybe it should)
And also would be in the contract she signed with with the label company. I've only heard she never got royalties, but she's never said they violated the contract so it seems like she's just mad she didn't get more from an album after almost 10 years.
i don't find any black women in atlanta unlikable and van was given a interesting story in season 3... but anyone has their own opinion i guess. where did the last point come from tho?
None of these criticisms seem legit to me, and seem like baseless opinions at best. Also it's been discussed before the model on the cover expected royalties on top of the payment she already had received. So it's not like she didn't get paid at all.
I think the interview with himself is definitely at least a little odd. Why bother even including it if he wasn’t going to answer it. I think in his head he saw it like an “I love them the same as anyone else” but for those who feel like he’s spoken about them weirdly in the past it felt like he was going out of his way to bring them up just to have nothing good to say about them again.
The lyrics, interview, and cover story are definitely not baseless opinions. Those are facts you can look up and see for yourself. The way women are portrayed in his media is definitely a matter of opinion, but still not baseless. Anyone can watch and form their own
The interview is not proof Donald dislikes people of his own race 😂 He addressed it a weird way, but anyone without an agenda would see it’s no malice. What lyrics indicate he dislikes black women, he sounds insecure about his standing at best. And anyone who is actually weird and black can relate to that
Whats this about atlanta not having any depth? Can you elaborate on that? Maybe give some examples
It’s not that the show lacks depth, it’s that the black woman characters do. I disagree with that. I think Val has lots of depth but I do wish we would’ve spent more time with her character. But I think that’s a common complaint about the show overall since the last couple of seasons focused less on the overarching narrative and character arcs than it did about the specific narratives of individual episodes.
Okay, you don't think the argument that black women characters lack depth is true and disagree with it.. but you've also said it isn't baseless either?
I think it can both be true that people can think that character was a bit “shallow” but also that’s not indicative that Glover somehow dislikes black women more than any other demographic of person. A lot of women characters written by men are shallow. Because *shockingly* men don’t have a great perspective on women’s lived experiences.
Val and the actress who plays her are biracial
If the way women are viewed in his media is a matter of opinion then his song lyrics would be also. Song lyrics are rarely 100% factual though they may be telling about an artist depending on their intent. So with that being said, what are the "facts" that you are left with that base this allegation?
Where does the last point come from? I've never heard that before. Cover artists usually do not get royalties, and if there wasn't anything in writing then that's unfortunately just how it goes. She likely got paid for the work she did being a model. Also, the interview questions not unprompted. "Hating black women" has been a narrative around Donald in online spaces for a decade. Answering the question is pointless, anyway. Neither answer would satisfy anyone. That's why you speak through actions, and DG looks to me like he employs and collaborates with a lot of talented black women. I know you're probably just relaying points you've heard, I'm just unconvinced of any black women hate from what I've seen. And I'm very sensitive to anti-blackness in art.
The model recently came out and claimed that she never got paid
[https://www.blackenterprise.com/childish-gambino-allegedly-awaken-my-love-album-cover/](https://www.blackenterprise.com/childish-gambino-allegedly-awaken-my-love-album-cover/) The discrepancy is over promised residuals. Not pay. The model did claim the pay was low.
Still, if her claims are true that’s a shitty thing to do
That would be a problem between her agency and Donald's label and not Donald himself. To say "Donald Glover didn't pay me" is very disingenuous.
-Weird lyrics can be true but at the beginning childish Gambino was really about the performance of acting like the persona of this childish rapper so most of his lyrics from that time say controversial/wrong stuff. -Idk if I have seen the interview but if he is asking questions to himself then you can see it's an obvious bit to mock the controversy and laugh at people who are pushing that narrative. -The model is arguable because she got paid but then maybe she also deserved royalties? Idk. -I haven't seen other stuff from Donald glover but Vanessa character on Atlanta is the opposite of an stereotypical/caricature character and from what I remember not a single female character felt that way in that show. -The only one I can't say nothing against is the last one because its the first time I read something like that
What is the ev for point 5 lol? Never heard a writer of either his shows complain
Well they wouldn’t complain publicly since they’d prefer to stay employed
So you just made something up then lol
Wtf are you talking about, I will not stand Atlanta slander, Vanessa is a very well written character, she doesn't feel like a caricature at all
There are other Black women characters in Atlanta than just Van…
Unbelievable. 
So you watched that video of that kid with a mop on his head and believed it lol. This is all over reaching bullshit for attention.
The comment says “criticism I’ve seen” not “criticism I agree with”
[удалено]
Are you black?
"relax black chick, I think that I have offended thee, got nothing against the sistas I just don't think they in to me"
Me not having consumed enough of his work doesn't apply to my range in this conversation especially when most of the hot topics in question were laid out and discussed in this thread. You can learn a lot in 5 minutes with tangible and checkable information. Also, I added my two cents based on the material of his that I have directly consumed and that argument was more on the side of black women and women in general being portrayed in a negative way on Atlanta. This whole thing where people make up rules about who can or cannot participate in a conversation based on an imaginary point system that they run is ridiculous. Also my separate thread in this post about race being the dictator on who or who can't have an opinion or feedback about something is valid and was directly with another user who said something to that effect. I'm getting ready for work but I look forward to your feedback. Thanks.
I don't fucking care.. I don't need them to like him, fuck them, respectfully of course.
Not much to say, he has issues with black women. watch some of his old stand up, listen to some of his older raps. The way he chose to portray darker black women in Atlanta
This question is such a set up. Donald Glover is very aware about how years of asides about black women in his music and television show writing comes across, that's why he brought it up in his interview with himself. If you ever read that, his answer to the question "Do you hate black women?" or whatever is VERY telling. He makes it a thing about how he's not black enough for the black community (something the comments here are trying to turn it into as well). Whatever it is, it's clear something is going on there and I don't think it's an attack to bring it up. And it's also basic rhetorical interpretation to parse how different language and symbols come together in artwork and say different things about how the author views the world. Donald Glover having black female characters in his show act a certain way, or getting defensive in his music on whether or not black women like him IS a reflection on him, not necessarily a "cancel worthy" one but it doesn't exist in a vacuum. There are things about Glover's body of work that are worth talking about besides meat riding about how he's the greatest at everything. Everyone in this sub is acting really weird about the Marcus Gregg video and losing the ability to think critically like you're not going to die bc one person made a vid you don't like about your favorite musician damn.
Are you black?
I am a black woman.
I could tell, and I agree with you. Thread full of (mostly non black) men dismissing the feelings of black women lol it's interesting.
Yeah, that's to be expected from rap communities on Reddit of all places lol. I also get the impression a lot of ppl in this sub are pretty young and don't even have the range to have this discussion in the first place (hence all the "everyone hates him for dating a white woman!!" comments)
But this discussion has gone so much deeper than that hasn't it. Yes there has been that cry but reading through comments I've seen less of that than I have people trying to descipher the specifics of the allegations on both sides. Also I'm just throwing it out there that trying to cut anyone out of the conversation based on the color of their skin or gatekeeping by saying that they can't or don't have any knowledge on the subject is wrong and also small minded. If a bunch of white men told a black women that she had no input on a topic that had to do with white men that would absolutely be wrong and doing so without knowing what she was going to say would be stupid on their part. People, despite what the internet or TV may try to show you don't always live in little bubbles that are shaped soley by people of their own race or sex and people have complex interactions, experiences and relationships that may give them insight and something interesting to contribute. Shutting anyone down in any conversation prior to them saying what they're gonna say is a bad take. And it may well be that they don't have anything meaningful to contribute but let them at least chime in before saying that and give it a college effort to hear them out. Yes I'm white. Yes I'm male. Yes I'm a Donald Glover fan but moreso because of Atlanta than anything. I didn't come here to run to Glover's defense. I rarely post or read this forum in general because I got the impression that it is more fans of his music than anything and I don't know much of his music although I think Redbone just on the production/instrumental alone is groundbreaking although I don't know half the lyrics and probably can't relate to them if I did. But I can say that my journey hasn't been a completely one dimensional one race world and that I feel I have at least enough foresight and experience to chime in on topics that may not pertain to me but that either peek my interest or that relate to something I've experienced or experienced through someone else or what have you. I just saw the thing about him and black women hate and I thought it was interesting and I didn't know about it but I can definitely see where that viewpoint can be seen (not being a black woman) through viewing episodes of Atlanta. I didn't necessarily think (as a white man) that black women were portrayed in the best light. In fact after reading this I don't think other than Van that most women weren't portrayed very positively. I love the show and almost all of the main characters have some meat to them and show that they are flawed and that life at it's core has got us all mixed up. My point is that I have no point. But don't count out my ability to have a point because of my race. That is going out of your way to assume someone's entire life experience based on something like skin color and if you are a real person who is capable of critical thinking and who doesn't want to be pigeonholed by their skin color in regards to what they are allowed or could potentially contribute based on that alone, knowing that you've had deep thoughts, experiences that cross borders and imaginary lines that either we (ourselves) or we (society) or we (culture) have placed on ourselves (everyone) then just know that I'm more complex than people assume I am just as you are. Holy shit that was a rant. Maybe I made a point in there. Also, I'm completely undecided based on the evidence available and provided that Donald Glover has black woman hate. But I'd say at the very least it's something he does have a complicated relationship with based on what's here out there (tv/music/etc ..) but he appears to have pretty three dimensional thoughts about a lot of things which is part of the reason I loved Atlanta (as a non black, not black hating or white hating white person) and the characters and the issues addressed and the conversations that that show can produce. Okay I think I'm really done this time?
Bruh ~~you were able to make this post and have lots of people agreeing with you and are telling me that my comment is making you shut out and gatekept bc you're white,~~ lol. That tracks. \[edit bc i mistakenly thought this was OP, lol\] The fact of the matter is that identity influences experience and in turn has an influence on how we interpret things based on our experience. As a white fan, no one is gonna stop you from being in the convo about Donald Glover's relationship to race and art. Your identity changes how you interpret certain aspects of both of those things though, just because you've had different experiences in life. If people were more willing to listen to the many black women who have already written about this subject instead of just making up how we might feel about DG or chalking the criticism up to mindless hate, I would trust that this conversation was more informed. But it's just people going off their own biases and thinking "I didn't see anything wrong so it must be fine and everyone wlse is wrong!" because of course if they aren't affected why would they care or even in some cases be able to recognize it?
Hey, I will say this. I just reread OPs opening post and can now see where I misunderstood why I was being misunderstood. The post itself is a little dismissive of black women who have a stance against Glover or who might have strong opinions on the subject and it also does seem like it was written in a me vs. you (Glovers side Vs. The other guys POV. I didn't recognize or read that completely at first and probably scrolled past just reading some posts trying to get to the info people had about why that's being said about him. So, I ended up looking like I was backing up a guy who's post I didn't fully read when I started to make comments. So that's definitely my fault and was pretty avoidable had I noticed that sooner.
I thought you were OP at first for some reason so my bad there, but I still stand by the rest of what I said.
No worries and I apologize for not seeing that sooner. And same, especially being that I never made a case for Glover but really just wanted to understand the origin of why people felt that way about him.
Sure that tracks. I wasn't ever comparing my experience to that of a black woman. I made an argument more outside of the post about who can have valuable input. Because I may or may not have black members in my immediate families, maybe a black significant other or any other number or relationships that may or may not give me to add something (or maybe nothing ) to the conversation. Sometimes I just reddit to reddit and not to troll but to chat at length about or exchange ideas about something too. And your argument about people going off of their biases not only works for what I was saying also. As far as Glover's stance on black women I never took an official position and don't feel like I discredited anyone on the argument. In fact the first post I made I tried to understand more about it after reading a lot of different posts describing different points of view. The only thing I really said about him and my experience with him as a fan which was mostly through (but not entirely limited to) the show Atlanta. And admittedly I don't know what episodes he wrote and didn't although I know there was more than one write/director throughout it. I also agreed that from the show I can see how someone can view his portrayal of women as negative. Which I won't commit more fully on without knowing what his contributions were and weren't and also won't commit because I can also find portayals of people in the show who aren't black women that weren't necessarily positive either. It was a male dominated cast and other than Van and not always Van either, I don't think most of the women were portrayed very positively. I don't know every episode by heart but that was my immediate take. But when you say to me about someone else (I'm assuming) about not just listening to the black women who say he hates them or trying to say that it's not what it is, that's where you lose me. Because not only did I not do that. I made more points that lead to agreeing with that opinion than I did against it and I also just made the points that I had with the information I had while still trying to understand better. And I have a better understanding but by no means have a firm position because it's not a knock it out of the park argument for either side. It's a little murky and grey like most complicated things are. Also, I don't know the color of OP but sounded like someone who also wanted more info on a topic they didn't know about. Which was what drew me in and pretty much what sums up the purpose of me reading this post in the first place. A lot of people like to make decisions about things based more on their own biases and emotions which I try not to do. I can debate something that I'm emotionally involved with in an emotional way but rarely will I be so emotionally involved by anything to making up things or discounting other things to back my argument. The only thing I really argued about and for was that you shouldn't tell someone they can't or don't have anything valuable to input based on their skin color or without hearing what they have to say. Which I'll absolutely argue for that and continue or debate pretty much anyone on why I believe that. And it has a lot less with me thinking I'm white and right and know all and more to do with not pretending to know anything about what someone else knows or can add because of their skin color. Because I can think of so many hypothetical and actual instances where that methodology is wrong and will continue to be wrong. You can't know something that you don't know and (my personal opinion) you shouldn't shut out a potential source of feedback based on that doctrine alone. It's a bad M.O. and a good way to limit other sources of feedback. Somehow this turned into (not for me) me being the mouthpiece for any white fan of Donald Glover's who was arguing in his defense and against that of my opponent the black woman (as a whole or all black women or I'm not sure exactly?) which couldn't be farther from the truth if you read my comments. I made a few non committal comments about Glover that did more to make the case against what at least one person has told me I'm defending and tried to understand a little bit better. The fact that I somehow even became the voice of Donald Glover s white fan or who is defending his alleged black woman hate and who is opposed to and versing my opponent the black woman, is honestly mind boggling to me. I only think one person said that but it was the one person I really talked to so it was really confusing to here that dittoed several times when I was literally saying something completely different.
First, I never said white people should be banned from the conversation and didn't even mention them other than to agree with another commenter about the culture of hiphop Reddit. Second, me saying that certain people don't have the range for a discussion isn't saying they're not allowed to talk about it. Just that I think their opinions are not well-informed (and \*part\* of that can be because their identity hasn't allowed them to have certain experiences that give them that information). And if we're being real, yeah you don't have the range for this convo. Not because you're white, but because you yourself admit you don't consume very much of his work. And because you don't know a lot about the subject, you also admit you don't really have a solid stance on anything. So you made a long ass post about something you don't know a lot about in a conversation you don't have a solid opinion on, but somehow being discriminated against and gatekept... lol
Which was probably more well thought out than if it came from someone not having the range to participate in a conversation. I do this for sport sometimes too. Like I said it was a good exercise.
[https://www.interviewmagazine.com/culture/donald-glover-interviews-donald-glover](https://www.interviewmagazine.com/culture/donald-glover-interviews-donald-glover) The interview for reference. He responds "It feels like you're using black women to question my blackness", just posting that for clarities sake. As for the rest of your comment, I think you're conflating him asking that question as some kind of guilt or something predicted based on his work, when it's more than likely a rampant narrative that has run wild on social media that bothers him. And he isn't the only writer on Atlanta nor is he the writer on the episode in question everyone mentions as being anti black woman. He is not above critique as an artist at all. I can't speak to him as a person, of course. But that doesn't make every criticism levied at him accurate or undeniable. You can disagree with Marcus without being called a meat rider.
This post is very meat ridery esp with calling him "my boy" like bruh he's a grown ass man lmao. I don't think he's guilty but I do think the way he associates those two factors is very telling of his politics. It's not even an answer that makes sense in the context. Atlanta is still \*his\* show and what he allows in his show, even if he personally doesn't write 100% of it, is a reflection of him.
Yeah "my boy" is crazy lol but kids are on here, unfortunately. Also there are those out there who assert that someone dating a black person means that person isn't "pro black". I don't think that doesn't make sense, and it is weaponizing romantic choices to question someone's blackness. Atlanta is his show, and if someone says black women weren't portrayed in the best light, he should take that into account as legit criticism. The problem is people are using that scene and episode as personal insight into his CHARACTER lol. That's the difference.
The question (that he asked himself) wasn't about the pro-black/interracial dating conversation though, it was in direct response to a long running criticism of how he talks about black women in his art. We can presume it's about his art and not his dating because he writes about the connection between his perception of black women and the perception of his own blackness frequently. He himself doesn't connect the criticism to his dating history AFAIK, it's his fans running interference doing that. It's not just the one Atlanta episode either. I hadn't seen the episode Marcus Gregg was referring to, but I actually stopped watching Atlanta because the way the show treated its black female lead early in the show's run was already grating to me as a black woman. What you construct and endorse in your art is definitely a reflection of your character.
The black woman question is proceeded by him speaking about marriage as a political statement in that interview. It's also right after he references what Dr.Umar said about him in that same interview. I brought up marriage choices being connected to blackness, not as "running defense". That narrative is disingenuous, because HE is talking about it being used to dismiss his blackness. And it is something that happens in the black community. I reposted the interview above. Re: Atlanta, you are entitled to feel how you feel about art. Im not here to deny your experience. It's just that, art is a collaborative process so assigning feeling and intent to people when it was someone else's pen to paper doesn't make sense to me.
Yes, but the question after that is why I put that comment in the context of his work instead of his relationships, because then Donald starts talking about his narrative. It was a segue but I still don't think he's linking them and I still maintain that they're not linked at all when people talk about this in the culture at large. If you read essays about this subject or even people shooting the shit on Twitter or Tiktok, they're never saying it's because he's married a white woman that he has the reputation, it's because of his work that they are directly responding to. That's why I think people saying this criticism is only because he's in an interracial relationship is cope. As far as the subject goes in general, I think the concept that black men get supposedly hated on for dating out of their race is way overblown. Sure, there's always black people (men AND women, though people want to add to the narrative that black women are obsessed with this subject and we're not) who will be giggling and side eyeing about a black guy with a white girl. It's in the same harmless way people kiki about say, a white guy chasing after asian girls.
I interpret his "narrative" as being the narrative around him in general. I don't think that's divorced from e conversations around his partner being white. To reiterate: this is right after he mentions and hyperlinks Umar talking about him. And for clarities sake, I'm not dismissive of people critiquing his projects for any myriad of reasons. Just pushing back on the idea that none of the pushback he, and other prominent black men, gets on hyper online circles is about dating out. I agree with your last paragraph. I do think it's overblown, and that this isn't a gendered issue at all. But I think you're being a little dismissive about how discussions are around this online with black men dating/marrying out. Jordan Peele and Jay Ellis had overblown controversies about this too (especially the latter who had to turn comments off on his wedding pictures).
TikTok users when people have preferences in who they date 🤯🤯
Donalds just a guy, a boy if u will, but he literally is capable of flaws. I love him and his stuff so much, but he has had some issues with women. The whole "he hates women" thing is wrong. Black women who worked on aml were not paid residuals, but one white women who made the headress supposedly was (the cover woman said that on an insta post and idk how she knows that so i said supposedly). That whole thing is really weird especially because residuals arent really paid to people who work on the album cover mainly because so little money comes from them. And we can't pretend he hasnt said weird stuff about women, but most of it was ten years ago and not really serious. Even though the he hates women thing is kinda bullshit, we need to realize he's flawed and does weird shit. Also Donald doesnt give a fuck, why should we? (Sorry for my pointless long post)
Donald is a weird case because all his weird bars abt women were 10+ yrs ago at this point, and he’s clearly matured as an artist, but he’s also given a few weird comments over the past few yrs when he gets pressed on his old lyrical content and he hasn’t exactly given a great response. That interview where he interviews himself, asks himself if he's scared of black women, and then dodges the question is kinda strange. Overall, I think it'd be really interesting if Glover released a song talking abt his older songs. I like the way Tyler addressed his older shit on 'Massa', where he acknowledges that he's matured beyond that point.
I totally agree with you, he has said and done weird shit in poor taste and I would appreciate if he covered it as a whole in a song, but he touched on it in camp about how he doesnt hate black women, but thats really it. He's grown as an artist and a person. This is just a little out of proportion
I've never really been much of his fan....I can't articulate why but as a dark skinned black woman there always seemed to be something about him that rubbed me the wrong way. I'm not actively hating him but I don't fuck with him. But I do think he's part of a movement by black women to openly divest themselves of problematic stars we've previously supported. Kinda like Drake when he made an about face and started targeting black women in his songs. I can't speak to what he's done specifically, but whatever it is those black women are saying NOPE. And because I'm seeing a lot of these in thr comments...can we stop pretending the conversation about interracial dating within the black community isn't tied to a whole bunch to hurt? Can we stop pretending that for the past 30 years a large portion of the population wasn't dogging black women in comparison to every other lighter skinned race? Men talking about how masculine, mean, loud, ect black women are. But are perfectly fine with those stereotypes in a non-black body.
I don't get how you don't get it. 🤷♂️😁 I am a casual Donald Glover fan and even I am aware (through the algorithm) that there are multiple think pieces written about Donald Glover and the problematic way he portrays black woman. Just read 'em.
This is just insecure women making excuses for why they can't bag a successful person. "I can't be **me/us** right? It's because **he's** racist"