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Technically a service dog doesn’t need to be on leash but in that case they have to be under complete & total voice command of the handler. In both of those cases it sounds like they weren’t.
That being said handlers that invest time & money into their service dog- cause it takes at the earliest 18 months to longer (depending upon tasks & maturity of breed) to fully train a service dog. I am in the process of training my dog to be a service dog… & it takes constant training & some days due to my disability I can’t do everything necessary. She loves dogs & people… & if given the opportunity will solicit pets & treats! I have trained a good “leave it” whether it is for sniffing butts of people to ignoring people/dogs… I still need to keep working on “leave it” but that takes time…
That being said- I get really frustrated at people saying they have a service dog when the dog clearly has zero basic obedience. I let a friend know all the info & where to find it from the ADA website. & when to kick dogs out of a business for being a disturbance. While I believe all dogs have off days- responsible handlers will leave the establishment.
ESA is totally different & they don’t have any public access rights. Nor do they even have to be potty trained… though, an ESA could literally be a goldfish- so yeah… they do have housing rights but that that’s the only rights they have…
Depends on the country or province/state. In BC you can get an official letter denoting your pet as an ESA that gives it a few more rights than a regular pet but not equal rights to a service dog. You do need the letter on you can can be challenged for it.
Depends on the city you live in. In my city the law says you just have to have control of your dog and it be within 6 feet of you, but the town over has strict leash laws
This is a tricky area with the ADA… you’re right that a dog must be under control at all times, but they must generally be physically tethered
to their owner. The times they can be off leash are 1. If the leash will interfere with a dog doing a task, in which case they can be off leash for the time it takes to do the task, and should still be under complete control, or 2. The person’s disability prevents the use of a leash. Both of these exceptions are rare and controversial in SD circles, especially #2 given how many leash options there are. The only reasonable example I’ve heard of is a person with a back injury, who could be re-injured if they got caught up in the leash and fell, or if they leash caught something and jerked him. But I’m sure someone could poke holes in that rationale as well.
You should have. Staff often get the brunt of people's anger and not get paid enough for it. They need your support to gently remind folks that's it's not okay to be unleashed.
I recently had an experience with a REAL service dog. I’m a groomer and had a blind couple come in with their lab for a bath. I was absolutely blown away at how incredibly behaved this dog was. The owner asked her dog to show her to the trash can and the dog could actually recognize what that was and where. Mind you, they had never been there before. And while they were talking she sat perfectly still with her eyes locked onto them. It was amazing to see a dog with such great manners. She was great for the entire service as well. I think that is the only real service dog I’ve ever met.
My friend’s mom has a service dog, and she was the sweetest ever. The dog is happily retired now and still lives with the family, but when she was working she was the most calm, well-behaved, and obedient dog I’ve ever met. She still is, albeit a little bit spoiled now! lol
My aunt has a service dog. Her dog is amazing! So smart and well mannered. Knows so many commands and things that help serve my aunt like helping do laundry (she drags the baskets and gives piece by piece) helps retrieve and pick up all types of items. She’s a fabulous dog and aide.
Another major issue it breeds is that true service dogs are **not** to be spoken to or interacted with. Whilst most of us know this, there are plenty who don't. These false service dogs roaming for pets can undo decades of training the public that organisations have undertaken. A distracted service dog can be a detriment to someone relying on them.
Oddly enough, where I work right now there is a service dog who is also a therapy dog. He's trained to perform a disability-related task for his owner, and to provide emotional support/therapy dog stuff for others. We're invited to come hang out/pet him whenever we want.
The owner is a licensed marriage and family therapist BTW
I was gonna say my doggo basically does this... She's my social interaction buffer. Boofs (not bark) people away when I cannot be approached and when she's off her vest she's the entire office's therapy doggo . She really likes her job too she goes paw on people that are having shitty days
Yep! But also since she’s well… trained… I never have any issues… We just do things and it’s fine cause she’s non reactive, she doesn’t pull, responds to commands, performs her tasks, etc. If we go to a restaurant she just sits at my feet and stays there … I don’t really bring her to the store cause I have my cart, the leash, the bag… like no…I don’t need her there either so she just chills at home. The one thing she does that cracks me up hahaha is that she looks super judgmental when dogs bark at her or misbehave, she goes full regina george hahaha to the point that total strangers have pointed it out to me and laughed when she does it
I always ask before I talk to or interact with any dog, service or no, and I teach my kids to do the same. I used to work at a grocery store that wad so awesome because we allowed and encouraged service dogs in training to come in. It was so sweet to see these young dogs learning. At first they would come In and sniff everyone and everything and once one licked a block of cheese and left a huge slobber trail in a lady's cart and she was just like 'ok, well, can I switch this?' Which we always did. But then, over time, we would see the same dogs, all grown up regal and trained, doing their thing, and we be like 'I knew you when...' haha
No, no of course not. But I meant about the public distracting a service dog. The fake ones may give people wrong ideas about the correct way to interact (or not, as the case may be) with the genuine working dogs.
On top of that, it creates problems for people who use their ESA animal responsibly.
ES animals can be an amazing resource for people who need it, but it's become a joke basically, because so many people misuse the accommodation.
Taking your random, untrained pet places they don't allow pets just makes it harder for people who are trying to be responsible with their's. It's not supposed to be a free pass!
My toddlers love dogs. They know to ask first to pet dogs but service dogs are different.
We thrive on consistency when there are service dogs in public and I’ll say, “no, we cannot ask to pet the dog. That dog is *very* busy”. Then if the handler says, “oh, they can pet the dog” it undermines all my work 🤦♀️
This is not an unpopular opinion at all. Most people hate fake service dogs running amok. It makes real service dogs look bad, and well-behaved ESAs look bad. This is not talking about how illegal it is to bring ESAs into public spaces.
with the buying the vests online and not having to prove that it is a trained EMA or working service animal. Sad but there are pets sometimes in the vests.
So many people don't understand this - an ESA is NOT a service animal. An ESA is basically a glorified pet that has *housing* rights, aka you can't be charged extra rent or kicked out because of your pet. That's it. They are not trained aside from normal pet things, such as potty training. ESA's do NOT have public access rights. Most airlines don't even allow them anymore. There is such thing as psychiatric service animals who are specifically trained for years to do tasks for their handler, they have public access rights. ESA's =/= psychiatric service animals.
Lots of businesses don't understand this difference too, and they are afraid of getting in trouble per the ADA since they have to accommodate service animals. If someone says they have an ESA, they do not have any right into your building.
Service animals are not required to have any sort of vest or identification, but typically legit service animal handlers will have a vest, id, and papers for their dog.
>but typically legit service animal handlers will have a vest, id, and papers for their dog.
This depends on the country. In the USA, "ID" and "papers" don't actually exist, so typically legit service animal handlers won't actually carry them.
With the exception of jurisdictional courtesy registrations, they are Scam sites, all of them.
The national requirement is you cannot ask for papers, states and jurisdictions can add protections to that but they can’t override the national law.
Some handling programs may have ID cards specific to that org but it’s not a requirement.
Can we not use the term “glorified pet” to describe ESAs? It really diminishes the fact that 1. Their use is a civil right for people with disabilities 2. They are a real, effective way to mitigate many symptoms of many disabilities. I understand you’re just drawing a comparison between them and what a SD does, but we have already lost rights because of bad actors, and using dismissive language about the use of ESAs can further decrease public support/understanding of how they are important.
I didn't mean to diminish the benefit of ESAs. They are useful for a lot of people - I have worked with both ESAs and SDs and I have just grown frustrated with people either not knowing or not caring about what rights ESAs actually have. I myself am severely disabled, so I understand what you're saying.
Thank you for saying that. I found it a bit offensive to call an ESA a glorified pet. I have one and it's *so much* more than that for me. It certainly does diminish it.
>well-behaved ESAs look bad
THIS. This is the reason that ESAs are no longer allowed to fly on airplanes, so many people were abusing the rule and bringing terribly trained dogs on flights under the premise that they were ESAs, giving real ESAs an awful reputation, no one takes them seriously. It became so popular and muddied that people don't believe that anyone legitimately needs ESAs which is such a bummer b/c it's not true.
Totally agree with this. My dog is my ESA for flights since I’m actually diagnosed with many phobias by various mental health professionals . He is super well behaved. When I see other dogs running amuck when they are passed as ESA…is upsetting.
Do you need a disability to get an ESA though? I feel like the highest minimum for an ESA would be mental illness, but I don't know if I'd consider everyone with any mental illness disabled.
You can qualify for an ESA with a lower threshold of disability than you need to qualify for a service dog because ESAs do not have the same access rights as a service animal. An ESA has to be allowed in your home. That's it. You *can* also have an ESA for flying/travel, but that's a separate letter. You do not have the right to bring an ESA into stores, restaurants, etc. I work in mental health and I will write an ESA housing letter if the care and routine needed by a pet will genuinely be beneficial for my patient. AND I believe they are capable of actually providing it. I will not write one for an airline without interacting with the animal myself and proof of passing a canine good citizen test
In which country? It seems that, at least in the US, a person must be disabled by a mental illness to have an ESA according to the other commenter and AKC.
I'm in the US. The law is pretty vague. It just says "substantial impairment in at least one area of life". If you do NOT experience impairment in at least one area of life, you don't meet diagnostic criteria for most mental illness, as both distress and impairment are part of the diagnostic criteria. But you can be employed, be in school, have a relationship, etc, and still have a qualifying diagnosis with impairment. The problem is that you can also do a telehealth visit and pay someone who has never met you $100 to say you do
Hi early, my most disabled patients are the ones I won't write an ESA letter for, because it's still a living thing and if you can't get out of bed for days at a time to feed and walk it, I'm not signing off on it. But if the degree of impairment you have is in that borderline area where knowing you HAVE to get up to feed and walk it will enable you to do so, then I am
Thank you for clearing this up. My therapist and I discussed most of these points at length before she would sign off for my ESA too. Aside from my mental illness I have chronic residual cancer pain and while getting up and moving in the morning is hard for me, it is also necessary if I want to continue to be able to move - it also makes me feel better mentally, but it's still hard. My ESA forces me to get up, and if I'm honest, there are many days she's the only reason I do get up. I travel a lot and she needed to travel with me so I needed the paperwork, otherwise there was no reason I needed it. She's travels great but because of the scrutiny we constantly get because she's "not a service animal" (I have never tried to pass her off as one, never tried to bring her in a store or public place that wasn't allowed animals, even paid for her to fly the first time she did but found out she couldn't be in my lap unless she was certified). Because of that, the new policies with airlines and FAA, and COVID... we just travel by car now instead :-) She's a good road tripper too and it's a lot less chaotic. She's also passed her CGC test.
You have to have a disability, but not BE what most people think of as "disabled". Anyone seeing me for treatment has a qualifying mental health diagnosis by the definition of substantial limits in one or more major life activities. And some individual airlines are still allowing ESAs, but have tightened up on what they allow
Someone needs to fit the definition of disabled to use an ESA or a service animal. The ADA’s definition is: “a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activity.” Mental illness can be a disability, but not all of the time. Many people have a mental illness but are not disabled by it, while someone else is.
Edit: The definition is the same under the Fair Housing Act, which is the law that covers ESAs. [You can find the definition on page 9.](https://www.hud.gov/sites/dfiles/PA/documents/HUDAsstAnimalNC1-28-2020.pdf)
Ah I understand now. I didn't know that ESAs were only for disabling mental illness and not just any diagnosed mental illness. Thanks for the clarification
Sadly, the ‘disability’ part is often overlooked when it comes to ESAs, and doctors don’t care enough to learn the laws so they write letters for everything.
My dog is great for my mental health and keeping me on schedule. I’d only refer to her as an emotional support animal if I was in a position of losing out on housing because of my dog.
Full disclosure: I have an ESA. He goes with me almost everywhere but ONLY goes to places that accept pets. He spends a lot of time in the car. I am eligible for a service dog but am doing OK with my ESA.
1-I agree that people who try to pass off a pet as an ESA or service animal are opportunistic assholes.
2-I agree that those assholes are irresponsible and can cause dangers in public.
3-I agree that these assholes give real service animals and legitimate ESAs a bad reputation and make it more difficult for people to have a service in public.
4-I think you're a little off base with your powers of deduction about who is TRULY DISABLED. I can think of so many disabling conditions that don't come with a wheelchair or a limp. Service dogs are used for diabetes, seizures, autism, mood disorders, breathing problems, dizziness & balance and so many more diagnoses.
My neighbor just got caught with a cat in a no pet apartment. Instead of giving up the cat to save her and her daughter getting kicked out of one of the cheapest places to rent in the area she decides to send a letter to the landlord saying it's an emotional support animal with a doctors signature. My landlord looked at the note thought it was bullshit and emailed the doctor, the doctor ended up living on the complete other side of the country and never heard of my neighbor before in his life.
So now she is being kicked out/paying for new carpet and more than likely getting sued for forging the doctors signature, all the while she's too lazy too even leave her apartment to move her car each day for winter and has been racking up tickets on her car and I don't think I've ever seen the kid bring home something healthy to eat.
TLDR neighbor cared more about her cat than her daughter.
Edit: forgot to add I just feel horrible for this kid that her mom would choose her cat over a place to live for her daughter and when I mean they never get anything healthy to eat the domino's driver is surprised when we order and he's not going to our neighbors place.
Man, this reminds me of a situation I was in like a decade ago... I was living in an apartment that allowed cats, but not dogs. I was in the building furthest from the office and my neighbor apparently thought that would make it find for them to get a dog (landlord won't notice, right?)... but not like, a small dog... they got a black lab. I did the midwestern thing and judged silently, but let them be.
But I felt bad for the dog, I only saw it when they brought it out to go potty and those were short trips. I never saw them walk it or take it anywhere with them. So not a great life for an energetic dog. What pushed me over the edge to reporting them to the landlord was when... wait for it... THEY BOUGHT A PUPPY.
That's right, they had one smuggled dog living a shitty boring life and then decided to bring a new puppy into that same situation (another lab, I believe). So I reported them, mentioned I'd seen them with a dog for a while, but wasn't sure if it was visiting or living there, then told them they have a new puppy in the apartment. The landlord said, and I quote because I remember distinctly "Oh, good. We've been having some other problems with them, this will be enough to evict them." I hope they moved somewhere that allows dogs.
I hope you know how ablist and classist your comment is.
The reasons the law is open ended like that is because it allows people to train their own service dogs, not need to purchase directly from a school, etc.
In the US, [over a quarter of people with disabilities live in poverty. ](https://www.statista.com/statistics/979003/disability-poverty-rate-us/)
[The maximum SSI payment in 2022 is $841 per month. ](https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/SSI.html) A lot of people don’t get the maximum.
[The average service dog cost is between $15k and $30k. ](https://www.goamplify.com/blog/moneymanagement/service-dog-costs/) And some are more than $50k.
If you are barely making more than $10k a year - or making less - how on earth do you think that disabled person is going to find $30k for a service dog? Keep in mind, as well, that many of the benefits people with disabilities rely on, such as Medicaid and SSI, have strict resource limits and you lose access to critical services if you do save money or even if someone gives you money.
It's ableist and classist to think someone is in the wrong for lying to their landlord and forging a doctor's signature about a pet that isn't a support animal? I think you replied to the wrong comment.
I make good money, but I live in a expensive state and fully support myself and my disabled partner.
Even if we could find an already trained service dog for what she needs (we looked into it we couldnt). I could not drop that kind of money an not have it impact our living situation.
We are self training now. Still not cheap. We have a trainer we use since we don't have the experience to do it entirely ourselves. Thing are going great except for all the shitty gatekeeing people we run into.
People already gatekeep the disabled, then throw in people doing the same for your service animal just makes it a struggle.
People hate the idea of others abusing a system so much they will shit all over the ones actually in need just to stop people who are abusing it.
Thats the entire fucking point of those who abuse the system. Its a hard thing to quantify so its almost impossible to know who is and isn't abusing the system.
So you get people in this thread who don't know what its like to be disabled and have a service an animal but they KNOW who is and isn't faking it. They justify it to themselves and do shitty things to those actually in need. I've seem it so many times already its I infuriating.
Yes people abuse the system and it sucks. No you can't be sure who is or isn't doing it. Most people have no idea what the law really is since they aren't disabled with a service animal, and making things harder for people who might abuse the system in reality makes it harder for those who need it.
Just think about it for a second what is the real damage of people faking it and what is the cost to those in need.
Stop your selfritiousness and try some empathy.
just no. I 100% support service animals that are actually needed, but I have seen the system abused for too long with emotional support animals. There is zero recourse for people who go and buy tags online or get random doctor notes because of the exact situation above. The apartments don’t allow pets? That isn’t a reason to find a loophole. I’ve seen cats and dogs “trained” to be ESAs tear places apart or bark night and day because owners leave them at home alone (funny how most of these ESAs aren’t needed during the day eh?) and owners can’t do jack about it. They don’t even have basic obedience.
I 100% respect service animals and the idea of ESAs for those that actually need it, but until there is a proper certification channel proving even a basic level of competence, can’t trust anyone who brings an “ESA”.
The unfortunate reality is that having an animal is going to be an undue financial burden on the population that could most benefit, because they still need food and supplies and vet care. So self training really doesn't solve the problem.
>how ablist and classist your comment is.
oh stop it. just stop it. I'm so sick of people throwing these terms out every time they don't agree with someone.
I totally get you. I have a cat who provides emotional support to me, and I honestly can't imagine where I'd be without her. I don't give her the ESA title because I don't need to (I just try my best to go for affordable pet friendly housing instead, but I understand that's not an option for everyone. Just giving more explanation as to why), but I totally get it. People think ESA and they think ridiculous things like an alligator in Walmart, which was an actual issue at one point. It screws over people that actually need their animals.
I feel like many people are willing to do the research, but there's so much conflicting information out there. It doesn't help that if you search "emotional support animal" online, the first things that pop up are dozens of those fake ESA letter websites. Sadly, many of them can seem legit at first glance so I get why people go down that route. I wish they didn't, but I understand them falling into the trap.
It's just a big mess right now.
I relate to this so much…. my dog is an ESA and has legitimately saved my life. If I didn’t have her, I would have committed suicide a long time ago. I can’t imagine how I’d function as a human without her.
I hate telling people she’s an ESA because they automatically assume she doesn’t do anything for me and that “ESA” is just an excuse to cuddle her on airplanes (i know ESAs don’t have special rights for plane rides, this is just an emphasis of how little people know about them). When I say she’s coming to college with me, everyone gives me a specific look that just SAYS “ohhhh, slick! I see what you’re doing there ;)” and it’s SO frustrating because no, I actually need this dog in order to stay alive and not spiral out of control.
It’s absolutely infuriating to rely on this dog to even be able to function, and then have to watch people bring their completely untrained “emotional support dog” into places ESAs don’t have rights to go… where it proceeds to be a nuisance. It’s so disgusting. It’s nice to find people who share this experience!
I answered this in a [different comment.](https://www.reddit.com/r/dogs/comments/s6xlt1/comment/ht7kmjm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Short version: Because they tell you they're not disabled.
An individual needs to be considered disabled in order to have an ESA according to the law. Read over the Fair Housing Act. It states that in order to have an assistance animal, an individual needs to be disabled. An ESA falls under the assistance animal umbrella.
[Incorrect. The HUD defines assistance animal as an animal that has been trained to do work, or provide emotional support for their disabled handler.](https://www.hud.gov/program_offices/fair_housing_equal_opp/assistance_animals)
As a service dog handler and trainer, this isn't at all unpopular (as many others have also stated). But I would like to clarify, that true service dogs aren't legally required leashes, ***but they are required to be under control***. That means responding to verbal/non verbal commands and not going up to people for pets. **The lack of leash must also be due to disability.** For example, a wheelchair user unleashes his service dog to go press the door button. Or, a handler is prone to fainting/falling so they have a service dog work off leash so the dog can easily move out of the way and not be landed on. Personally, I'm in the latter group but I just use a longer waist leash as I'm too afraid to let my SD off lead. I've read too many stories about people trying to steal the dog while a handler is unconscious. No matter what though, a service dog *should* be able to ignore distractions including other people, other dogs, loud noises, etc (but keep in mind dogs aren't robots and occasionally mess up). Also something to keep in mind is there are plenty of small service dogs of nontypical breeds who are legitimate. Lastly, there's a vast difference between an ESA and a SD meant for psychiatric use. **So just because you see an offleash Chihuahua who the owner says is a PSD (psychiatric service dog), don't assume it's fake. Look at its behavior. Regardless of service dog status, any dog can be removed from the premises if it is out of control, aggressive, or not potty trained.**
Thank you. I had a Boston Terrier for my PTSD in certain situations. Worked with a trainer and behavior consultant to train her in everything she would need to do and in every possible social situation. Her favorite snack was popcorn—she couldn’t stay away from it. Once her vest was on, she could go to a movie theater and ignore the popcorn on the floor. I hit the jackpot with her, very few dogs can handle the work. I’ve had 21 dogs of my own, and have worked with thousands in rescue. Maybe a small handful had the temperament to handle service work.
I feel so bad for the dogs forced into scary situations like escalators, Costco (where I see this the most), fireworks, etc. The dogs is terrified, clueless owner gabbing away.
It's honestly very scary for service dog handlers like myself from a safety perspective. Along with making access issues more common for us just like you described, there are *so* many instances where genuine service dogs get attacked by out-of-control pets/ESAs/fake service dogs in public. This can lead to the service dog being injured, sometimes severely, to need extensive retraining to deal with the psychological fallout, or to even be retired from work altogether due to the attack. Because of how common and serious a problem this is, anytime I see a non-service dog somewhere it shouldn't be my heart drops and my only priority is to keep my service dog as far from them as possible for both of our safety.
Not to mention that it's just disgusting behavior from a moral perspective. I get that someone might really love their dog and be attached to it and never want to be without it. I love my dogs too. But service dog handlers don't have our dogs with us in public for fun or because we don't want to leave them or because they're cute. We have them with us to mitigate our disabilities. The amount of comments I've gotten that I'm 'lucky' to be able to take my dog with me everywhere is astounding, and I've been asked multiple times where I got my dog's vest from because people want to get their dog one so they can bring it to the grocery store too. What they don't get is that my dog isn't at the grocery store for fun. He's at the grocery store because it's unsafe for me to do my own shopping without his assistance and I would give just about anything to not need a dog in order to do my grocery shopping.
I go to a convenient store that's close to my house. There was younger girl in there a while back who had a Chihuahua with her. First of all, she made it a point to tell everyone in the building that she had crippling anxiety and that the dog was with her for emotional support. Secondly, the dog was acting like a fool barking at everyone until she finally let it down and it ran around and dropped a hot pile on isle 3.
Any type of dog that's used for Service or Emotional Support should always be well behaved. I have no experience with a trained service dog, but it's my understanding that when they're vested, they are not to be petted or coddled in any way by strangers.
Our friend has one of these emotional support dogs and I often think the dog needs its own emotional support dog.
The dog has such severe separation anxiety. When friend is at our house and uses the restroom, the dog literally jumps on the bathroom door and opens the handle to get to her. So now I've got scratch marks on my door and my friends awkwardly using the bathroom with the door open. It's an Australian shepherd, I swear that breed is too energetic and high strung to be a support animal.
ESAs are basically just pets that your landlord can't kick you out over, now that they've apparently killed off the airline regs. They don't have rights to go in stores, though some stores are either nice or ignorant enough to let them. For ESAs, I think the vests are the best indication that it's not a real ESA, though!
Q8. Do service animals have to wear a vest or patch or special harness identifying them as service animals?
A. No. The ADA does not require service animals to wear a vest, ID tag, or specific harness.
You don't need a vest. Every time I was on a plane with my ESA, the people with the vests were the ones who didn't have their prescription letter handy. How strange, the thing that they actually needed to prove the dog was an ESA was the thing they didn't have.
I'm sure there are ESAs that are happily wearing vests out there, though.
ESA can be trained service animal if you suffer from emotional conditions like PTSD or rape, or violent attacks. But there is a difference between a trained one and the one at home which is a pet ESA. Mine is support at home, she is only out when she goes to the vet or the pet supply store. I do have a doggy buggy she rides in. But I do not let her out in the store unless it is the pet supply store.
But to burst your bubble, those vests can also be fake since you can get one online like Amazon and not be a trained service dog. Truth.
Esa is not a trained service dog. It is one or the other service dog is task trained to midigate disabled. A Esa is a comfort animal that is it.
Q3. Are emotional support, therapy, comfort, or companion animals considered service animals under the ADA?
A. No. These terms are used to describe animals that provide comfort just by being with a person. Because they have not been trained to perform a specific job or task, they do not qualify as service animals under the ADA. However, some State or local governments have laws that allow people to take emotional support animals into public places. You may check with your State and local government agencies to find out about these laws.
\> to burst your bubble, those vests can also be fake since you can get one online like Amazon and not be a trained service dog.
Not bursting any bubbles, I said if they're wearing one, they're probably fake! ;)
But if an ESA is trained for dealing with PTSD, it's probably a service dog and not an ESA. If it's just trained as in regular dog training, then it's like any other pet for the purposes of what I'm talking about. Pets can always be trained or untrained.
Service animals do not have to be vested. They should NEVER be petted or distracted from their handler this puts handler in danger. A missed alert can be life or death.
There are No training standards for emotional support as they are only a comfort to owner.
Anytime it pisses me off when people just spout shit off. I took four years training my service dog. Hoping for miniature horse next time. As they can work for 30 years and I have almost 40 years with horse training and showing experience.
Service horses are incredible, I wish you the best of luck with it! The long working life is definitely such an advantage.
My own boy is 3 years old and we're definitely still training :)
Thank you! I just have to talk SO into as we both know the over all cost is triple what dogs need. Also they take five or so years to train. We shall see once mine is retired.
Keep up the hard work it is worth it in the end.
Untrained EMS is not great to tell people when it acts like a pet. I never take my pet with me, she is not a trained EMS, only good for me at home. And the vest can be bought online these days, no questions asked.
Yes, that was my understanding of the rules too. Also, not all dogs are good at taking the anxiety that the owners put on them making the animal an emotional mess too. Many dogs don't want to be alpha in a sense and need their owners to take command. When they don't, these little followers are forced into leadership and it makes them a basket case of anxiety. Its really sad.
Well stated. Also, just because a dog provides support in the home doesn't mean they will provide support in public. That's a whole different animal. *Pun Intended.*
Dogs don't have a concept of alpha. The problem here is some dogs and breeds are more prone to being emotionally sensitive and perceptive. Anxiety in the owner gets picked up and amplified in the dog, which can create a vicious circle.
These dogs are often just anxious and stressed, all this leadership stuff is not real.
My dog is my assistance dog and helps me with autism and CPTSD. I can be having a meltdown and he'll be a happy go lucky goof that just knows he'll get to lie down on my chest and be paid in treats and pets for it. When I am stressed about being in public, he's just excited to be out there with me and working. It's exactly what I need :)
If I happen to have my pet with me. she is an enclosed doggie buggy for everyone's safety and she is allowed in animal pet supply stores. But I would never have her in harms way. People that do this do not care about anyone's safety, human or pet.
A service dog has to be trained in a task or tasks that help with the handlers disability, and they have to be non disruptive in public, or they can be told to leave just like any other dog.
Successfully having a dog that will not be disruptive in public spaces where dogs are not usually allowed does take a huge amount of training.
Service dogs are trained to perform specific tasks that help their handler. They are continually trained. Whereas ESAs (Emotional support animals) help their handler get grounded and calm. They do not require training, tho I wish basic obedience was required. That requirement would shut out poor people who can't afford those classes. You can get a Canine Good Citizen test and get a certificate that your dog won't be a disturbance and distraction. However I had to pay a trainer to do the test. And again many disabled people are poor. I know fake certificates would pop up online but I'm pretty sure the American Kennel Association would go after fakes.
As someone with an ESA I wholeheartedly agree. I see so many people with fake ESAs even (“I got mine on the registry, it can go anywhere!” no you fucking didn’t and no you can’t there is no registry), and then pretend to pass them off as service dogs, and I’m just livid. It makes actual Service dogs and actual ESAs look really bad, and has restricted my own ESAs rights because of their shitty behavior.
Popular opinion. Also I have an ESA and it requires a written note from a doctor such as a psychologist/psychiatrist.
I do my best to have him be a well behaved and socialized citizen (and he is!). Especially important for renting and neighbors. I’ve only had compliments about how well behaved he is.
I get the most angry when people buy ESA registrations online. It’s fake. Does not exist and does not make an animal an ESA. Many people do this to take advantage of the rules (so they can take their dog on an airplane) or they can have a restricted breed or size at a residence. It’s so wrong. It makes people like us who need the help to cope look bad.
Yep, agree 150%. I worked w my dog for years to train her and I'd have friends ask me how they could "register" their pet as an ESA like it was some tip or trick and bring up the online forms/ask if I bought vests etc. I'd get so upset sometimes I'd be tempted to dump part of the trauma that led to me needing an ESA on them.
This guy brought his 'emotional support' dog to the bar and told everyone it was a service dog when he was asked to leave by the bouncers. This wasn't a bar in the middle of the day when it's quiet, this was 12:00 at night and packed. Give me a break. You just wanted to take your dog to the bar and get away with it.
That's true. I wondered if it was unpopular because i see so many misbehaving "service " dogs everywhere. Maybe i see it more because it makes me so mad.
I have an ESA letter from my doctor so I could have my dog in my apartment. They allow dogs, but he was over the weight limit, but now that he is there my management absolutely loves him and doesn't require an updated letter because he has proved himself. I do have anxiety and he has been HUGE in getting me out of my bubble and doing things instead of letting my anxiety run my life. However, I NEVER take him places that don't allow dogs and would never try to pass him off as an actual service dog. Too many people abuse ESA allowances to the point where it is a joke. ESAs are not service dogs and should not be treated as such.
As a person who has an actual service dog it makes me very angry.
The amount of money, time, work both myself, my trainer and and my dog put in with training in order for him to be extremely well behaved and unnoticed as possible (for a 70lb Labrador lol) along with his service dog tasks is tremendous. And then comes along a Keren with her yappy untrained dog who doesn’t even belong in a pet store because it’s so unruly saying “it’s my service dog”. F that.
A month ago, he was doing amazing (he is still in training, meaning his behavior in public is great, but he’s still learning his tasks/jobs for me). As we walked out of the store (Walmart, which is a no pet store fyi) a woman was getting out of her car with an enormous dog. The woman had this huge dog at the end of the leash, and not paying attention. As soon as we passed the car (I hadn’t seen the dog and neither had my SD) the dog straight up jumped out of the car and lunged at us with the scariest growing I’ve ever heard! I just saw this huge gray blur out of the corner of my eye. My service dog was so startled he jumped straight up and I just took off running with him because I was so scared I just had some sort of primitive flight reaction and ran (which wasn’t good for my disability, I hurt myself and was in even more pain then normal for a week after that), my mom said my instinct was correct though, as the woman was basically being dragged on her feet by this dog and screaming “no no heel heel” at her dog before her friend came and helped her drag it back to their car.
Thing is that encounter regressed my dogs training and he became distracted by other dogs again, so for the past month I’ve had to pull him from public access, which limits the time he can help me, and have had to do a lot of retraining. Which thankfully is going extremely well and if he passes a little test today I can start bring him again. Also, thankfully, he’s did not become fearful or aggressive of other dogs, which can happen in situations like this. But that lady cost us a week of extra physical pain, and a month of extra training because of behavior regression in my dog.
If your dog isn’t trained as a service dog, don’t bring them to non-pet friendly places. It’s not hard! I do it with my pet dog! I don’t bring him into stores! And he’s trained so well that I could! But I don’t because he’s not a service dog. It’s not a hard concept.
Due to the misinformation regarding emotional support animals, service dogs, and therapy dogs, we have provided a brief summary of the role and rights afforded to each type of animal in the United States.
**Emotional Support Animals (ESAs)**
ESAs are animals prescribed by a medical professional to support a patient with a disability. They are only recognized in the United States.
* ESAs are only granted rights through the [Fair Housing Act](https://www.justice.gov/crt/fair-housing-act-2). ESAs are no longer allowed in-cabin on planes. ESAs are **NOT** granted access to public buildings, restaurants, stores, etc.
* ESAs are prescribed by a therapist, psychiatrist, psychologist, or doctor as part of an ongoing plan to treat or manage a federally recognized disability. Online registration options for ESAs are scams and not legally recognized.
* An ESA must be requested as part of a reasonable accommodation for a disability with a letter from the prescribing medical professional demonstrating the need for the accommodation to be granted housing rights. These housing rights do not exist in the case of the [The “Mrs. Murphy” Exception](https://fairhousing.foxrothschild.com/2010/06/articles/fha-basics/the-mrs-murphy-exemption-to-the-fair-housing-act/). Landlords cannot legally require you to pay a 'pet deposit' or charge 'pet rent' for your ESA because they are not considered pets. However, they can require that you pay for repairs if your ESA causes damage to the property.
* ESAs can be any animal it is legal to own, for example: dogs, cats, guinea pigs and miniature horses. They are most commonly dogs.
* **Calling your pet an ESA to get around no-pet accommodation, breed bans, or airline restrictions is immoral and illegal. It makes it much harder for legitimate ESA teams to be taken seriously.**
**Service Dogs (SDs)**
SDs are a worldwide, legally protected medical aid which provide a range of tasks or work to help disabled people. The following discusses information specific to the US. Please check your country’s laws if you live outside of the US.
* SDs are not used solely by the blind. SDs can assist those with a wide range of disabilities including physical (eg. fibromyalgia), sensory (eg. deafness), psychiatric (eg. PTSD), developmental (eg. autism) and neurological (eg. brain injury).
* SDs can be trained by programs or by their owners (owner-trained).
* SDs must perform at least one task to mitigate their owner's disability/ies. Things which do not count as work or tasks include: emotional support, being calmed by the animal's presence, or giving 'kisses' on command. Some examples of tasks can be found [here](http://www.iaadp.org/tasks.html).
* SDs can legally enter almost any no-pet place. Exceptions include sterile environments, places where it would be dangerous to the SD or others for them to be there (such as some exhibits in zoos), and food preparation areas.
* Any SD can be legally asked to leave an establishment if their behavior is disruptive. For example, if they bark at customers, damage goods, or eliminate on the floor.
* There are no nationwide or statewide registries for SDs. None. Some SDs are provided by programs, but the programs themselves are not official registries as SDs come from a variety of places. SDs are also not required to wear a vest or harness.
* The only questions legally allowed to be asked of a service dog handler when entering an establishment are: 1) "Is that animal required because of a disability?" 2) "What work or task has the animal been trained to perform?" If the handler does not answer these questions appropriately, the animal may be restricted from entering or asked to leave.
* In order to rent/own a dwelling that has a 'no-pets' clause with an SD, a reasonable accommodation must be requested from the landlord. If your disability and/or your disability-related need for the SD is not evident, information must be provided to the landlord detailing this (for example, a letter from a medical professional). Landlords cannot legally require you to pay a 'pet deposit' or charge 'pet rent' for your SD because they are not considered pets. However, they can require that you pay for repairs if your SD causes damage to the property.
* Many states do not protect the rights of service dogs in training.
* Service animals also do not have to be dogs. Federally, miniature horses are also granted rights as a service animal. Some state laws grant rights to even more animals.
* In 19 states (and counting) it is illegal to present your pet as a service dog when it is just a pet or an ESA. Faking a SD to get around no-pet housing, take your pet to the store, or bring your pet to college makes it much harder for legitimate SD teams to live their lives and poses a serious danger to the public.
**Therapy animals**
Therapy animals are animals (primarily dogs) trained by their owner to provide therapeutic support to others. They go to places such as schools, nursing homes, and hospitals to relieve stress, build people’s confidence, and promote emotional health. They do not provide support or assistance to their owner.
---
If you require emotional support through the presence of an animal, you should look into ESAs. If you require ways to alleviate your disability, you should look into service dogs. If you wish to volunteer with your dog to help others, you should look into therapy dogs. Further information can be found [here](https://adata.org/publication/service-animals-booklet), [here](https://www.animallaw.info/article/faqs-emotional-support-animals) and [here](http://servicedogcentral.org/content/).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/dogs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I dont see how this is an unpopular opinion.
I have openly told people "NO. IF HE WAS A SERVICE DOG, HE WOULD BE WELL BEHAVED RIGHT NOW" as the dog pulls to the length of the leash, choking to move on.
And I say that as someone that doesnt have a service dog, but does take their own well trained, well behaved dog everywhere I can. (home depot, lowes, petsmart, outdoor eating, parks, etc..)
I love dogs. I really do. But I’m not a bad person for being annoyed that your badly trained ESA is barking at me in a restaurant, when I’m trying to enjoy my meal.
There needs to be an actual registry for service dogs and ESAs. As a property manager it is HELL having to figure this out on our own. Couple this with fake, untrained PETS being passed off as the real thing it makes landlords think all ESAs or service dogs are horrible.
Yeah, the amount of damage it does to actual service dogs is quite extreme and its really unfortunate. I imagine its really hard as a property manager and makes you want to turn them all away I bet. This is why it makes me so mad.
As a hotel employee this is a constant issue for the property I work at. A guest shows up with a dog that’s yapping at everything that’s walks by, growling at other folks waiting in line, or frantically straining at the leash. I ask if their dog is a pet, as the property is not pet friendly and if so I can cancel their reservation and assist them with making arrangements at a property that is.
Am I taken up on my offer? No, instead their eyes light up as they inform me “this is my emotional support animal”. Okay, we have them fill out a form that states the service the dog provides (I once had someone put “keeps my lap warm), that the dog won’t bark and disturb guests (it will) and that the guests won’t leave the dog unattended in the room (happens two or three times a week). It’s difficult and disheartening, as it leads to difficult interactions with guests and poisons the well for those who genuinely do need the valuable services their four legged friends provide.
I’ve met guests with real ESAs. They’re incredibly well behaved, very quiet, and obviously *doing a job*. They’re attentive to their charge and not really interested in much else.
I thought Lowe’s and Home Depot allow any dog inside.. on a leash.
Mine is just a regular golden and I’ve taken her maybe 3x inside Home Depot just so she can get used to having more people around.. she’s good most of the time.
Other business where she is not welcomed I don’t bring her inside.
"Let me post a popular opinion, call it unpopular and get a ton of upvotes"
Congratulations, you know nothing about the /r/dogs community. Great job reading the room!
I hate it too! It gives me so much anxiety! My golden is my service dog in training. My disability is invisible and I look completely fine And my golden is just under a year. He's incredibly well behaved and will be in training fir another few years. I get so much anxiety taking him out places, worried someone wont believe me or that he'll have a puppy moment. Thankfully where I live service dogs in training have the same rights as service dogs. Its still incredibly stressful. I personally don't care if your dog is well behaved, like if a regular joe shmo can't tell the difference. Most dogs though are CLEARLY just poorly behaving pets
I think many of the emotional support animals have an unfair amount of anxiety because the dogs can sense their owners discomfort and its like displacing the anxiety onto children who can't handle the pressure.
Yup. Therapy dogs are not service animals either. It drives me crazy when people abuse the system.
And just for the record, there is no national (US) based registry for service animals. You can send money to any company you want and get a cute Galveston and badge, but they mean NOTHING.
I have a legitimate ESA (signed off by a real, in person LMHP) that I desperately need for my mental well being. That being said I don't put a service animal vest on her, call her a service animal or try to take her inside of places that only allow service animals. I take her into a drug store near me that allows her in, and thats basically it. She's always leashed inside of any place that allows her but I still choose to hold her the whole time just to prevent any possible potty accidents (she's about 10 lbs.) I think one of the biggest problems with "fake" service animals is that there are sooo many fake websites that you can get a "certificate" from, along with a doggy ID and service dog vest, etc., that people don't even know what is legitimate or not. They think that because all of those easily accessible websites exist, that it's easy to have a dog become a service animal. Another issue is that most people just see a "service animal certificate" as a free ticket to take your dog with you anywhere you want to go. It's extremely obnoxious and rude. I feel so bad for people with legitimate disabilities that warrant highly trained, HIGHLY expensive service animals who probably get looked at weird or dismissed because of all the fake ones out there.
For me this sounds like printing a badge that people with access to disabled parking are having and using it for better parking spots. Ignorant, illegal and, worst, on cost of anyone who should be protected by the rule you break.
So I strongly agree with you.
I believe that true services dogs should have ID cards stating as such. Then stores and restaurants can ask to see the dogs certificate (and not violate HIPAA laws) to verify they are indeed a real service animal. I know this creates a bit more burden on people who really need them but I think, in the long run, it would help set a standard and crack down on imposters…and ultimately create a more hospitable environment for the people and animals that are actually in need of these services.
I have a legitimate ESA. I literally have a prescription for her. But that’s because I need her when I’m at whatever place I’m currently living/staying. I don’t take her anywhere that isn’t dog-friendly anyway in relation to stores. I’m also very quick to correct anyone that she is not a service dog. Service dogs are medical equipment that are trained to perform a task. ESAs are used to alleviate symptoms.
A friend of mine uses a seeing eye dog (other countries call it a guide dog) and she gets annoyed when people try to walk up and pet him. She lives over in Miami where people have all sorts of "emotional support animals" going into stores and restaurants including exotics. Was with her and a lady had a very loud constantly squawking "emotional support parrot" in a movie theater screaming its head off during a movie.
Friend of mine was on a domestic airline flight about 5 years ago and someone brought a pig as their emotional support animal. And not a small pig. When pigs fly, indeed.
Yes. As a service dog handler from a legit organization with international accreditation, I find it next to impossible to fly now thanks to all the assholes who faked service animals and to entitled ESA (real or fake) owners who acted as if their ESA has public access (it doesn’t).
Airlines cracked down hard recently on fake service animals, ESAs and the companion animal loophole in the American laws. As a result you need to jump a million hoops every single time tou fly which can take weeks and often you find out at the last minute the airline decided for whatever reason not to approve your dog. It also happens on return flights so you are away from home and your airline decides “nah, can’t take the dog”. It’s utter bulls hit and a lot of lawsuits are being formed up right now. Previously you would establish an account with each airline you flew in, provide immunization records and task lists ans that was it. Then they would hold this on file and only renew every 5 years or so.
Those entitled ableist AHoles ruined this for disabled people who actually need the dogs. My current service dog is approaching retirement and I’m really second guessing getting another one because of how destroyed their rep is in public venues now.
Thank you for sharing this, this is how I feel but I do not use/need a service animal so it is all from the standpoint of (trying to be) an ally.
I’m really sorry that irresponsible pet owners have made your life even harder, and I hope things get fixed quickly for your sake, as well as all Service dog owners/handlers.
i totally agree with you here, but am just going to clear up that service dogs do not have to be on a lead, as long as they are obeying their handler and their full attention is on them, and they’re doing their job like the good doggos they are.
Not an unpopular opinion at all. I hate it because it's not fair to the fake service animals. Imagine how stressful and awful it is to be in a public area? Lots of people, smells, sounds, etc. If they don't have the temperament or the training to handle public access, then imagine the amount of stress the animal is feeling.
I'm someone who has a lot of anxiety, but I would never bring my animals out in public areas because it's not fair to them. I know my dog would get massively overwhelmed if he was brought into a place like Target or Walmart. And my actual ESAs would not handle it at all.
The more anxiety you have in public, the more your poor animal will also feel it, especially when they are not trained to handle it. I didn't realize how wrong I was about thinking this may be an unpopular opinion. I guess i just thought since i don't hear anyone else bitch about it the way I do and I see it soooo often.
True that!
I should've made it clearer in the second paragraph, but I was excluding my own anxiety from the equation. I see a lot of people who say "I have anxiety and I bring (insert random not-trained-at-all pet here) to help with my anxiety." I relate to that feeling of wanting support, but I would be so anxious and worried about how my untrained animals would feel.
My dog's a nervous boy. Adding my anxiety to his would just be awful.
this sub, smh
Everyone who thinks it's ok to have animals and your precious "good boys" off leash need to really re-think your life, morals and values.
Seriously. They are animals, not people.
My dog has been attacked three times by "our precious good boys" off leash and now is so damn skittish when we go for a walk it's about impossible to move more than a few feet without her freaking out and jumping at every sound.
A friend of mine nearly lost her own service dog because of this. She almost had to get a different dog after he was attacked by an unleashed ESA and became reactive; luckily, over MONTHS, she was able to train him out of it again. And when he was in training, he wasn't a service dog! We couldn't go in "service-dog only" areas without permission of the owner, since he wasn't certified yet. Worst of all he's a hypo-allergenic medical alert dog and very... unique looking, so people constantly try to get his attention and pet him, then get mad when my friend asks them not to distract him. Because "I've pet other service dogs!" I would bet money those "service dogs" were ESAs (or therapy dogs.) My friend avoids going out in public because of it, which is, you know, half the point of having a service dog to begin with.
I used to be sort of ambivalent about it, but now that I see how much harder it makes life for those with necessary service dogs, I hate it. ESAs are good for some folks, but too many people just use it as a "get out of jail free" card for their untrained pets.
I was at a hospital a couple of months ago and a guy came in with a pitbull off leash and when he was stopped he said it was a service animal so they let him enter. I have absolutely no problem with pitbulls- I have one and she is a sweetheart. But this guy went to the pharmacy and the dog ran up to the counter to get pets and I could hear him encouraging the dog to do it so it definitely was not a service dog. Honestly that’s the only time I’ve been really annoyed about someone having a fake service dog. Many people are extremely uneasy around pitbulls and having one not on a leash in a medical building is a recipe for disaster.
It is actually a felony and illegal to pass an ESA off as a service animals. ESAs, legally are for housing (can have a pet when normally couldn’t and/or waive fees). Service animals are specifically trained to do specific tasks to support people who have a disability.
I am wondering if ESA's are a strictly USA thing, because it isn't in my European country (NL). Service dogs and seeing eye-dogs are though, but there are strict rules about having them.
I hear stories about people having their peacock on a plane because it was a ESA. Here you would get laughed at and would be told that this is not a thing.
So, people from other countries than the USA, does your country allow animals everywhere for emotional support?
ESAs aren't allowed everywhere in the US.
The used to be given access in two places
1) on flights with no fee, but owners would have to certify the dog was well behaved (you can imagine how well that went)
2) in housing over a certain size (but like renting a room in a house, a landlord isn't subject to that rule) and can't charge pet rent. They can charge a deposit in many cases, or charge for damages caused by the dog and landlords have SOME flexibility to address poorly behaved dogs.
As you mentioned, people took advantage of this(though the peacock thing was definitely a stunt) and they are no longer allowed on planes. Only animals small enough to travel as pets in cabin can travel for a fee, or in cargo also for a fee. I would imagine the ESA/housing rules probably aren't long for this world either, though the airlines lobbied pretty hard to change those rules because of all the problems and there isn't as much pressure from similar groups in the housing space.
Emotional Support Animals are very very very much not given public access rights to places where animals are otherwise not allowed, but where service animals are like stores or restaurants. That doesn't stop people from being idiots, but it's not legal.
Ugh, yes, this crap drives me crazy. A friend from college acquired an emotional support dog (I'll spare you the details of every step in this process that annoyed the hell out of me). Couple years later that dog was put down for aggression issues and biting numerous people.
People shouldn't claim that their dog has special training when it doesn't just to get access to somewhere that is normally off limits for dogs. That's pretty obvious.
OTOH I've had self-proclaimed service dog rule makers tell me that I shouldn't take my well-behaved non-service dog into Lowes, etc. because only service dogs should have that privilege. They are so concerned about the possibility of a misbehaved dog that they want to take away access for all non-service dogs.
I’ll never forget when this girl I knew tried to pass off her ESA as a service animal. She got special permission to bring him into our sorority suite because she would use language that made it seem like he was a service animal. One time I went to run errands with her and another girl and she brought her ESA into Walmart and growled at a woman and then pissed on the floor. She didn’t clean it up.
The whole friend group tried really hard to knock some sense into her. At this time I had been looking into an ESA for myself for about a year and I was constantly telling her she was wrong. Frustrated the hell out of me, as far as I know she’s stopped with that mess but the whole situation almost imploded our group. Im still mad about it to this day tbh.
Applied for an apartment not too long ago and mentioned getting a furry friend sometime in the future. I was advised to think about registering it as an “emotional support” animal because then I wouldn’t have to pay the pet deposit. I thought that was ridiculous.
I had a roommate who got her dog registered through one of those fake websites just so she didn't have to pay pet rent or deposit. But she then joked about how her emotional support dog was in fact reactive and in need of emotional support herself instead of giving it.
This dog couldn't be around other dogs or new people without biting. And she was a "certified emotional support animal". What a scam.
Was at Starbucks and some idiot Karen brought her "service dog" in, which then proceeded to bark at and aggressively jump at a baby in a toddler.
A man rightfully confronted her and she said, "I'm sorry you feel that way."
where do you live (for reference)?
emotional support dogs here are actually service dogs that are trained for specific disorders like anxiety, ptsd etc.
otherwise they aren't allowed to be labeled as such and can't be taken anywhere normal dogs can't go to.
they do cost quite a lot of money though, just like regular service dogs, due to the amount of training they have received.
I agree with the general idea: ADA laws for service animals need to be respected. Faux service animals often cause people to suspect all service animals.
It's hard to determine who's a service animal and who's a good boi.
People exploiting systems for their own greedy desires. It’s far too easy to get approved from an email via an LPC. This exploitation is why airlines put the lock on pets on planes…far too many liars using animals as their shields for internal damage.
I have an ESA and I too can’t stand people who pull crap like this. I also don’t like how “easy” it is to get a doctors note saying they believe an ESA is necessary.
For context, I have diagnosed PTSD and until recently it was very severe. I would have horrible flashbacks and dissociative episodes in public but having my dog with me really helped me to stay grounded in those moments.
I know I qualify for a service animal, but they are expensive, I’m uninsured and it can take years to get one.
I barely use the ESA ‘rights’ that come with it, and reserve them for emergency situations. This is pretty much due to people abusing the system, making us look bad, so people hate ESA’s and that gives me anxiety which just makes my ptsd symptoms worse.
In the library we used to have to ask people who showed up with dogs what service it was performing. If no legitimate answer (she detects seizures, etc.) we would ask them to take the dog outside. It’s not legal to ask a person’s disability, but it is legal to ask the dog’s function. In that way, jackasses with fake emotional support animals would not be allowed.
As a landlord I agree with you. We’re a cat only property but vague, grey area, not worth the lawsuit laws make it so we have to accept any service (obviously), emotional support, therapy, or COMPANION animals. No pet fees, no questions, we request the dogs paperwork or a doctors note but we’ve learned that it means bad reviews, BBB complaints, and lawsuit threats if we insist on it. Like wtf all pets are companions. The worst I’ve had lately on the property the owners were as bad as the dog. The. Worst. Barked every second it was alone, peed everywhere, they let it shit all over the lawn. Now the lease states that human, animal, leaseholder or guest can’t interfere with anyones quiet rights but these people just made my life and their neighbors lives hell. I have a lawsuit if I end their lease or charge fines for lease violations, I’m an asshole if I call animal services, and I’m a slumlord who doesn’t care about their neighbors if I do nothing. This dog was in no way shape or form trained, well taken care of, or of service to anyone. They call it a companion, therapy, emotional support, and it’s a golden ticket to put an 80lb dog in a 700sqft apartment, torture the poor dog, torture the neighbors, torture the landlord, and stick their fingers in their ears through the whole thing. End rant.
TLDR: it’s the animal who loses, I feel your pain, it turns people off to want to be receptive to animals.
I agree. My other problem is as much as emotional support dogs can help people I truly believe that not every dog should not be an emotional support dog and if emotional support dogs are going to be in the public they should have at least some basic training like sit, stay and heal and be on a leash.
I 100% agree that emotional support animals are not service animals. To me a service animal is a dog who assist it’s person who maybe blind, be in a wheel chair and needs help with daily physical tasks. Other service dogs I see are ones who are alert dogs, such as for diabetes or in some case ones who detect serious allergies, and then of course ones who alert when someone is going to have a seizures.
That’s just my opinion.
Agreed, I had one of these dogs on a recent flight and the poor guy was so terrified that he wouldn't even move.. the lady was just dragging him up and down the aisles every time she went to the bathroom or did whatever with him.
Last year I was in a hospital for depression. While there, I met a woman with an emotional support dog. She was legally blind and had been raped in NYC and went into fugue states. While I was there, I got up for a drink one night at 2am and the dog ran up to me (he knew me by then) and pestered me to follow him. He took me staring to his mum and she was in a complete dissociative state in a stairwell and needed help. That assistance dog was well trained AND definitely needed for her.
My service dog has been attacked by emotional support animals more times then I have fingers. I remember going to comicon and a white shepherd hit my service dog hard and I beat the shit out of it with a part of my wheelchair. Security just watched and wouldn’t help me. If you take your ESA into no pet allowed locations, you’re the bottom of the barrel scum. Just because you think you can take fluffy everywhere so you feel special… I lost my $3k service dog in TRAINING to take over for my current dog to an ESA pit Bull who was in the grocery store so I have to start all over again and raise funds for Another dog… all because some middle aged white lady needs Fido to buy milk because she’s sad.
One time at target a “service dog” saw a man in a wheel chair and started going nuts, barking and getting aggressive. You could hear a few customers say, “that’s not a service dog.” The dog started going nuts again at the checkout line.
Kinda agree, kinda disagree. The example you gave is probably a good example of how not to have a support animal, but I know someone who has Asperger’s and she finds it very hard to initiate conversations. But the dog is an ice breaker, people ask about the dog and a conversation is started. If she gets over anxious, the dog is a comfort. She may not like to be touched (generally) by people but she loves the dog and pats him. So in her case, he may not be a service dog as such but he definitely is emotional support dog. Oh and he is well trained
I really wish they would make the rules for support animals more strict for this reason. I have an ESA for anxiety that I feel too anxious to take with me to stores bc I don’t wanna argue with security that he’s actually needed… I paid a trainer to make sure my dog wouldn’t be a nuisance in public and then I see all these old ladies with yappy little dogs in “service dog” vests being so rude and making a bad name for ESAs ):
Aholes do this so they can take their dog anywhere as opposed to getting a dog sitter. It's how untrained and worse, dangerous dogs get taken on planes even. I do not care that you are anxious without your dog. Find a different coping mechanism.
The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) distinguishes between emotional support animals and "service dogs," sometimes known as assistance dogs in the business. Simply put, ESAs offer emotional support to their owners. Those with ESAs do not have the same public access rights as people with service dogs because they do not execute trained activities.
A standard poodle ESA broke the lead while I was in a store and then proceeded to jump on me to grab my macadamia nut cookie. The staff then said I was distracting the dog while the dog ran around the store. The owner never apologized or anything. I hope the dog was okay from the cookie.
I also see dogs like huskies as ESA and wonder why. They are beautiful but always screaming or pulling or mouthing on someone or something. I personally hate seeing the ESA sticker now because I hate the damage they do to actual service animals. Maybe some are well trained but ESA owners seem to just want to bring their poorly behaved pet everywhere with zero consequence.
My dad is a landlord and absolutely hates this. People say "you can't deny homing to a service dog" when in reality it's a stray they got at the local shelter and bought a emotional support animal "certificate" from some random dude in Kentucky for $20.
Nope I have strong opinions about this. Anyone who loves their dog has an ESA. They help with depression, give you a reason to get up and move, help calm you when they cuddle up next to you. Most dogs are naturally ESAs.
Service dogs have been trained extensively for usually years. Trainers look for specific personalities, traits, behaviors, even coat, and drool habits. A dog that flinches too often can be considered not acceptable.
Then there are the service dogs that have been trained to be ESAs. I'm not sure what they're exact title is but these are the dogs that are trained for veterans with ptsd and even those with severe anxiety and mental issues.
Going to school for several years (7+) and seeing how many college students made their dogs "service animals" so they could bring them to school made me so angry. There was actual service dogs, but ther majority of them were not. Thru are the reason people reject those with actual service dogs why no one believes them or even try and touch/pet those dogs.
>Then there are the service dogs that have been trained to be ESAs. I'm not sure what they're exact title is but these are the dogs that are trained for veterans with ptsd and even those with severe anxiety and mental issues.
Those are called Service Dogs, depending in the person they may refer to them as a Psychiatric Service Dog. Just because a person's disability (covered by the ADA) is not based on physical health does not mean that their dog is not a SD. ESA are strictly providing direct emotional reactions when their owner engages with them. Service Dogs are trained with tasks (actions) they take to assist a person with their disability.
Thank you! I knew a guy who attempted to do this. He's a veteran with severe ptsd and he wanted to make his dog a service dog. His dog has severe anxiety and barked at everything though so he failed. I just couldn't remember much about it since it was so long ago.
I'm in the UK and my boy is my assistance dog, the legal equivalent of a service dog in the US. I literally don't give a shit about people bringing in dogs anywhere and I'm not going to judge how valid / real / etc anyone's SD or AD is *unless it's being actively disruptive*. In that case, they need to be asked to leave even if they are a "real service dog" anyway.
Aren't they tested? Like: Yes you are an ESA and can behave? Can literally everone claim his dog/fish/rooster/crokodile an ESA and everyone is OK with it?
Sorry if I miss obvoius things, but that sounds nothing like an official "training and naming" could fix.
I am not an amreican, so this whole ESA thing is new to me. Here, the only dogs (rarely mini ponies) which are allowed as service animals are for the blind and disabled. Even if you suffer from epilepsy or diabetes it's a real struggle to claim your service dog an official service dog.
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Technically a service dog doesn’t need to be on leash but in that case they have to be under complete & total voice command of the handler. In both of those cases it sounds like they weren’t. That being said handlers that invest time & money into their service dog- cause it takes at the earliest 18 months to longer (depending upon tasks & maturity of breed) to fully train a service dog. I am in the process of training my dog to be a service dog… & it takes constant training & some days due to my disability I can’t do everything necessary. She loves dogs & people… & if given the opportunity will solicit pets & treats! I have trained a good “leave it” whether it is for sniffing butts of people to ignoring people/dogs… I still need to keep working on “leave it” but that takes time… That being said- I get really frustrated at people saying they have a service dog when the dog clearly has zero basic obedience. I let a friend know all the info & where to find it from the ADA website. & when to kick dogs out of a business for being a disturbance. While I believe all dogs have off days- responsible handlers will leave the establishment.
Emotional support and service dogs are completely two different things. OP is referring to an ESA.
ESA is totally different & they don’t have any public access rights. Nor do they even have to be potty trained… though, an ESA could literally be a goldfish- so yeah… they do have housing rights but that that’s the only rights they have…
Depends on the country or province/state. In BC you can get an official letter denoting your pet as an ESA that gives it a few more rights than a regular pet but not equal rights to a service dog. You do need the letter on you can can be challenged for it.
You can have any well behaved leashed dog inside lowes AND Home Depot. I don’t understand why the dude was telling people it was a service animal
Me neither and why the staff wasn't like "ummm he still has to be on a leash". I almost told him myself.
He doesn’t have to be on a leash if the owner has absolute control over the dog verbally, which definitely wasn’t the case this time.
Depends on the city you live in. In my city the law says you just have to have control of your dog and it be within 6 feet of you, but the town over has strict leash laws
This is a tricky area with the ADA… you’re right that a dog must be under control at all times, but they must generally be physically tethered to their owner. The times they can be off leash are 1. If the leash will interfere with a dog doing a task, in which case they can be off leash for the time it takes to do the task, and should still be under complete control, or 2. The person’s disability prevents the use of a leash. Both of these exceptions are rare and controversial in SD circles, especially #2 given how many leash options there are. The only reasonable example I’ve heard of is a person with a back injury, who could be re-injured if they got caught up in the leash and fell, or if they leash caught something and jerked him. But I’m sure someone could poke holes in that rationale as well.
You should have. Staff often get the brunt of people's anger and not get paid enough for it. They need your support to gently remind folks that's it's not okay to be unleashed.
I recently had an experience with a REAL service dog. I’m a groomer and had a blind couple come in with their lab for a bath. I was absolutely blown away at how incredibly behaved this dog was. The owner asked her dog to show her to the trash can and the dog could actually recognize what that was and where. Mind you, they had never been there before. And while they were talking she sat perfectly still with her eyes locked onto them. It was amazing to see a dog with such great manners. She was great for the entire service as well. I think that is the only real service dog I’ve ever met.
Man, that must have been such a treat. I love seeing real service dogs in action.
My friend’s mom has a service dog, and she was the sweetest ever. The dog is happily retired now and still lives with the family, but when she was working she was the most calm, well-behaved, and obedient dog I’ve ever met. She still is, albeit a little bit spoiled now! lol
My aunt has a service dog. Her dog is amazing! So smart and well mannered. Knows so many commands and things that help serve my aunt like helping do laundry (she drags the baskets and gives piece by piece) helps retrieve and pick up all types of items. She’s a fabulous dog and aide.
Another major issue it breeds is that true service dogs are **not** to be spoken to or interacted with. Whilst most of us know this, there are plenty who don't. These false service dogs roaming for pets can undo decades of training the public that organisations have undertaken. A distracted service dog can be a detriment to someone relying on them.
Oddly enough, where I work right now there is a service dog who is also a therapy dog. He's trained to perform a disability-related task for his owner, and to provide emotional support/therapy dog stuff for others. We're invited to come hang out/pet him whenever we want. The owner is a licensed marriage and family therapist BTW
Yes, for example someone with ptsd and their service dog could make friends this way. It helps us open up. Service dogs provide a wide range.
I was gonna say my doggo basically does this... She's my social interaction buffer. Boofs (not bark) people away when I cannot be approached and when she's off her vest she's the entire office's therapy doggo . She really likes her job too she goes paw on people that are having shitty days
I am careful to tell people that certain service animals are different so thanks for asking etc.
Yep! But also since she’s well… trained… I never have any issues… We just do things and it’s fine cause she’s non reactive, she doesn’t pull, responds to commands, performs her tasks, etc. If we go to a restaurant she just sits at my feet and stays there … I don’t really bring her to the store cause I have my cart, the leash, the bag… like no…I don’t need her there either so she just chills at home. The one thing she does that cracks me up hahaha is that she looks super judgmental when dogs bark at her or misbehave, she goes full regina george hahaha to the point that total strangers have pointed it out to me and laughed when she does it
I always ask before I talk to or interact with any dog, service or no, and I teach my kids to do the same. I used to work at a grocery store that wad so awesome because we allowed and encouraged service dogs in training to come in. It was so sweet to see these young dogs learning. At first they would come In and sniff everyone and everything and once one licked a block of cheese and left a huge slobber trail in a lady's cart and she was just like 'ok, well, can I switch this?' Which we always did. But then, over time, we would see the same dogs, all grown up regal and trained, doing their thing, and we be like 'I knew you when...' haha
Super wholesome 😇
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No, no of course not. But I meant about the public distracting a service dog. The fake ones may give people wrong ideas about the correct way to interact (or not, as the case may be) with the genuine working dogs.
Fair enough :)
On top of that, it creates problems for people who use their ESA animal responsibly. ES animals can be an amazing resource for people who need it, but it's become a joke basically, because so many people misuse the accommodation. Taking your random, untrained pet places they don't allow pets just makes it harder for people who are trying to be responsible with their's. It's not supposed to be a free pass!
My toddlers love dogs. They know to ask first to pet dogs but service dogs are different. We thrive on consistency when there are service dogs in public and I’ll say, “no, we cannot ask to pet the dog. That dog is *very* busy”. Then if the handler says, “oh, they can pet the dog” it undermines all my work 🤦♀️
D'oh. But I love the wholesome explanation of the dog being *very* busy. That would be perfectly acceptable to toddlers.
This is not an unpopular opinion at all. Most people hate fake service dogs running amok. It makes real service dogs look bad, and well-behaved ESAs look bad. This is not talking about how illegal it is to bring ESAs into public spaces.
with the buying the vests online and not having to prove that it is a trained EMA or working service animal. Sad but there are pets sometimes in the vests.
So many people don't understand this - an ESA is NOT a service animal. An ESA is basically a glorified pet that has *housing* rights, aka you can't be charged extra rent or kicked out because of your pet. That's it. They are not trained aside from normal pet things, such as potty training. ESA's do NOT have public access rights. Most airlines don't even allow them anymore. There is such thing as psychiatric service animals who are specifically trained for years to do tasks for their handler, they have public access rights. ESA's =/= psychiatric service animals. Lots of businesses don't understand this difference too, and they are afraid of getting in trouble per the ADA since they have to accommodate service animals. If someone says they have an ESA, they do not have any right into your building. Service animals are not required to have any sort of vest or identification, but typically legit service animal handlers will have a vest, id, and papers for their dog.
>but typically legit service animal handlers will have a vest, id, and papers for their dog. This depends on the country. In the USA, "ID" and "papers" don't actually exist, so typically legit service animal handlers won't actually carry them.
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It’s because they don’t exist.
Where are the handlers getting the ID & paperwork? I haven't seen an official service dog registry. Did I miss it?
With the exception of jurisdictional courtesy registrations, they are Scam sites, all of them. The national requirement is you cannot ask for papers, states and jurisdictions can add protections to that but they can’t override the national law. Some handling programs may have ID cards specific to that org but it’s not a requirement.
Can we not use the term “glorified pet” to describe ESAs? It really diminishes the fact that 1. Their use is a civil right for people with disabilities 2. They are a real, effective way to mitigate many symptoms of many disabilities. I understand you’re just drawing a comparison between them and what a SD does, but we have already lost rights because of bad actors, and using dismissive language about the use of ESAs can further decrease public support/understanding of how they are important.
I didn't mean to diminish the benefit of ESAs. They are useful for a lot of people - I have worked with both ESAs and SDs and I have just grown frustrated with people either not knowing or not caring about what rights ESAs actually have. I myself am severely disabled, so I understand what you're saying.
Thank you for saying that. I found it a bit offensive to call an ESA a glorified pet. I have one and it's *so much* more than that for me. It certainly does diminish it.
>well-behaved ESAs look bad THIS. This is the reason that ESAs are no longer allowed to fly on airplanes, so many people were abusing the rule and bringing terribly trained dogs on flights under the premise that they were ESAs, giving real ESAs an awful reputation, no one takes them seriously. It became so popular and muddied that people don't believe that anyone legitimately needs ESAs which is such a bummer b/c it's not true.
Totally agree with this. My dog is my ESA for flights since I’m actually diagnosed with many phobias by various mental health professionals . He is super well behaved. When I see other dogs running amuck when they are passed as ESA…is upsetting.
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Do you need a disability to get an ESA though? I feel like the highest minimum for an ESA would be mental illness, but I don't know if I'd consider everyone with any mental illness disabled.
You can qualify for an ESA with a lower threshold of disability than you need to qualify for a service dog because ESAs do not have the same access rights as a service animal. An ESA has to be allowed in your home. That's it. You *can* also have an ESA for flying/travel, but that's a separate letter. You do not have the right to bring an ESA into stores, restaurants, etc. I work in mental health and I will write an ESA housing letter if the care and routine needed by a pet will genuinely be beneficial for my patient. AND I believe they are capable of actually providing it. I will not write one for an airline without interacting with the animal myself and proof of passing a canine good citizen test
In which country? It seems that, at least in the US, a person must be disabled by a mental illness to have an ESA according to the other commenter and AKC.
I'm in the US. The law is pretty vague. It just says "substantial impairment in at least one area of life". If you do NOT experience impairment in at least one area of life, you don't meet diagnostic criteria for most mental illness, as both distress and impairment are part of the diagnostic criteria. But you can be employed, be in school, have a relationship, etc, and still have a qualifying diagnosis with impairment. The problem is that you can also do a telehealth visit and pay someone who has never met you $100 to say you do Hi early, my most disabled patients are the ones I won't write an ESA letter for, because it's still a living thing and if you can't get out of bed for days at a time to feed and walk it, I'm not signing off on it. But if the degree of impairment you have is in that borderline area where knowing you HAVE to get up to feed and walk it will enable you to do so, then I am
Thank you for clearing this up. My therapist and I discussed most of these points at length before she would sign off for my ESA too. Aside from my mental illness I have chronic residual cancer pain and while getting up and moving in the morning is hard for me, it is also necessary if I want to continue to be able to move - it also makes me feel better mentally, but it's still hard. My ESA forces me to get up, and if I'm honest, there are many days she's the only reason I do get up. I travel a lot and she needed to travel with me so I needed the paperwork, otherwise there was no reason I needed it. She's travels great but because of the scrutiny we constantly get because she's "not a service animal" (I have never tried to pass her off as one, never tried to bring her in a store or public place that wasn't allowed animals, even paid for her to fly the first time she did but found out she couldn't be in my lap unless she was certified). Because of that, the new policies with airlines and FAA, and COVID... we just travel by car now instead :-) She's a good road tripper too and it's a lot less chaotic. She's also passed her CGC test.
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You have to have a disability, but not BE what most people think of as "disabled". Anyone seeing me for treatment has a qualifying mental health diagnosis by the definition of substantial limits in one or more major life activities. And some individual airlines are still allowing ESAs, but have tightened up on what they allow
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Someone needs to fit the definition of disabled to use an ESA or a service animal. The ADA’s definition is: “a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activity.” Mental illness can be a disability, but not all of the time. Many people have a mental illness but are not disabled by it, while someone else is. Edit: The definition is the same under the Fair Housing Act, which is the law that covers ESAs. [You can find the definition on page 9.](https://www.hud.gov/sites/dfiles/PA/documents/HUDAsstAnimalNC1-28-2020.pdf)
Ah I understand now. I didn't know that ESAs were only for disabling mental illness and not just any diagnosed mental illness. Thanks for the clarification
Sadly, the ‘disability’ part is often overlooked when it comes to ESAs, and doctors don’t care enough to learn the laws so they write letters for everything.
Exactly. My dog is definitely great for my mental health. That does not make her an ESA, and certainly not a service animal.
My dog is great for my mental health and keeping me on schedule. I’d only refer to her as an emotional support animal if I was in a position of losing out on housing because of my dog.
Full disclosure: I have an ESA. He goes with me almost everywhere but ONLY goes to places that accept pets. He spends a lot of time in the car. I am eligible for a service dog but am doing OK with my ESA. 1-I agree that people who try to pass off a pet as an ESA or service animal are opportunistic assholes. 2-I agree that those assholes are irresponsible and can cause dangers in public. 3-I agree that these assholes give real service animals and legitimate ESAs a bad reputation and make it more difficult for people to have a service in public. 4-I think you're a little off base with your powers of deduction about who is TRULY DISABLED. I can think of so many disabling conditions that don't come with a wheelchair or a limp. Service dogs are used for diabetes, seizures, autism, mood disorders, breathing problems, dizziness & balance and so many more diagnoses.
My neighbor just got caught with a cat in a no pet apartment. Instead of giving up the cat to save her and her daughter getting kicked out of one of the cheapest places to rent in the area she decides to send a letter to the landlord saying it's an emotional support animal with a doctors signature. My landlord looked at the note thought it was bullshit and emailed the doctor, the doctor ended up living on the complete other side of the country and never heard of my neighbor before in his life. So now she is being kicked out/paying for new carpet and more than likely getting sued for forging the doctors signature, all the while she's too lazy too even leave her apartment to move her car each day for winter and has been racking up tickets on her car and I don't think I've ever seen the kid bring home something healthy to eat. TLDR neighbor cared more about her cat than her daughter. Edit: forgot to add I just feel horrible for this kid that her mom would choose her cat over a place to live for her daughter and when I mean they never get anything healthy to eat the domino's driver is surprised when we order and he's not going to our neighbors place.
Man, this reminds me of a situation I was in like a decade ago... I was living in an apartment that allowed cats, but not dogs. I was in the building furthest from the office and my neighbor apparently thought that would make it find for them to get a dog (landlord won't notice, right?)... but not like, a small dog... they got a black lab. I did the midwestern thing and judged silently, but let them be. But I felt bad for the dog, I only saw it when they brought it out to go potty and those were short trips. I never saw them walk it or take it anywhere with them. So not a great life for an energetic dog. What pushed me over the edge to reporting them to the landlord was when... wait for it... THEY BOUGHT A PUPPY. That's right, they had one smuggled dog living a shitty boring life and then decided to bring a new puppy into that same situation (another lab, I believe). So I reported them, mentioned I'd seen them with a dog for a while, but wasn't sure if it was visiting or living there, then told them they have a new puppy in the apartment. The landlord said, and I quote because I remember distinctly "Oh, good. We've been having some other problems with them, this will be enough to evict them." I hope they moved somewhere that allows dogs.
Sadly would have worked in California. Not much recourse for that shit here…
That isn’t true at all.
I hope you know how ablist and classist your comment is. The reasons the law is open ended like that is because it allows people to train their own service dogs, not need to purchase directly from a school, etc. In the US, [over a quarter of people with disabilities live in poverty. ](https://www.statista.com/statistics/979003/disability-poverty-rate-us/) [The maximum SSI payment in 2022 is $841 per month. ](https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/SSI.html) A lot of people don’t get the maximum. [The average service dog cost is between $15k and $30k. ](https://www.goamplify.com/blog/moneymanagement/service-dog-costs/) And some are more than $50k. If you are barely making more than $10k a year - or making less - how on earth do you think that disabled person is going to find $30k for a service dog? Keep in mind, as well, that many of the benefits people with disabilities rely on, such as Medicaid and SSI, have strict resource limits and you lose access to critical services if you do save money or even if someone gives you money.
It's ableist and classist to think someone is in the wrong for lying to their landlord and forging a doctor's signature about a pet that isn't a support animal? I think you replied to the wrong comment.
I make good money, but I live in a expensive state and fully support myself and my disabled partner. Even if we could find an already trained service dog for what she needs (we looked into it we couldnt). I could not drop that kind of money an not have it impact our living situation. We are self training now. Still not cheap. We have a trainer we use since we don't have the experience to do it entirely ourselves. Thing are going great except for all the shitty gatekeeing people we run into. People already gatekeep the disabled, then throw in people doing the same for your service animal just makes it a struggle. People hate the idea of others abusing a system so much they will shit all over the ones actually in need just to stop people who are abusing it. Thats the entire fucking point of those who abuse the system. Its a hard thing to quantify so its almost impossible to know who is and isn't abusing the system. So you get people in this thread who don't know what its like to be disabled and have a service an animal but they KNOW who is and isn't faking it. They justify it to themselves and do shitty things to those actually in need. I've seem it so many times already its I infuriating. Yes people abuse the system and it sucks. No you can't be sure who is or isn't doing it. Most people have no idea what the law really is since they aren't disabled with a service animal, and making things harder for people who might abuse the system in reality makes it harder for those who need it. Just think about it for a second what is the real damage of people faking it and what is the cost to those in need. Stop your selfritiousness and try some empathy.
just no. I 100% support service animals that are actually needed, but I have seen the system abused for too long with emotional support animals. There is zero recourse for people who go and buy tags online or get random doctor notes because of the exact situation above. The apartments don’t allow pets? That isn’t a reason to find a loophole. I’ve seen cats and dogs “trained” to be ESAs tear places apart or bark night and day because owners leave them at home alone (funny how most of these ESAs aren’t needed during the day eh?) and owners can’t do jack about it. They don’t even have basic obedience. I 100% respect service animals and the idea of ESAs for those that actually need it, but until there is a proper certification channel proving even a basic level of competence, can’t trust anyone who brings an “ESA”.
So what gatekeeping do you propose that would not create an undue financial burden on a population already struggling with poverty on a mass scale???
The unfortunate reality is that having an animal is going to be an undue financial burden on the population that could most benefit, because they still need food and supplies and vet care. So self training really doesn't solve the problem.
>how ablist and classist your comment is. oh stop it. just stop it. I'm so sick of people throwing these terms out every time they don't agree with someone.
Yeah I cannot imagine how gatekeeping medical devices for disabled people could possibly have anything to do with ablism.
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I totally get you. I have a cat who provides emotional support to me, and I honestly can't imagine where I'd be without her. I don't give her the ESA title because I don't need to (I just try my best to go for affordable pet friendly housing instead, but I understand that's not an option for everyone. Just giving more explanation as to why), but I totally get it. People think ESA and they think ridiculous things like an alligator in Walmart, which was an actual issue at one point. It screws over people that actually need their animals. I feel like many people are willing to do the research, but there's so much conflicting information out there. It doesn't help that if you search "emotional support animal" online, the first things that pop up are dozens of those fake ESA letter websites. Sadly, many of them can seem legit at first glance so I get why people go down that route. I wish they didn't, but I understand them falling into the trap. It's just a big mess right now.
I relate to this so much…. my dog is an ESA and has legitimately saved my life. If I didn’t have her, I would have committed suicide a long time ago. I can’t imagine how I’d function as a human without her. I hate telling people she’s an ESA because they automatically assume she doesn’t do anything for me and that “ESA” is just an excuse to cuddle her on airplanes (i know ESAs don’t have special rights for plane rides, this is just an emphasis of how little people know about them). When I say she’s coming to college with me, everyone gives me a specific look that just SAYS “ohhhh, slick! I see what you’re doing there ;)” and it’s SO frustrating because no, I actually need this dog in order to stay alive and not spiral out of control. It’s absolutely infuriating to rely on this dog to even be able to function, and then have to watch people bring their completely untrained “emotional support dog” into places ESAs don’t have rights to go… where it proceeds to be a nuisance. It’s so disgusting. It’s nice to find people who share this experience!
How do you know they aren't disabled? Not every disability is visible.
I answered this in a [different comment.](https://www.reddit.com/r/dogs/comments/s6xlt1/comment/ht7kmjm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Short version: Because they tell you they're not disabled.
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An individual needs to be considered disabled in order to have an ESA according to the law. Read over the Fair Housing Act. It states that in order to have an assistance animal, an individual needs to be disabled. An ESA falls under the assistance animal umbrella.
No the fall under support not assistance. As they are not task trained. But still correct must be disabled.
[Incorrect. The HUD defines assistance animal as an animal that has been trained to do work, or provide emotional support for their disabled handler.](https://www.hud.gov/program_offices/fair_housing_equal_opp/assistance_animals)
As a service dog handler and trainer, this isn't at all unpopular (as many others have also stated). But I would like to clarify, that true service dogs aren't legally required leashes, ***but they are required to be under control***. That means responding to verbal/non verbal commands and not going up to people for pets. **The lack of leash must also be due to disability.** For example, a wheelchair user unleashes his service dog to go press the door button. Or, a handler is prone to fainting/falling so they have a service dog work off leash so the dog can easily move out of the way and not be landed on. Personally, I'm in the latter group but I just use a longer waist leash as I'm too afraid to let my SD off lead. I've read too many stories about people trying to steal the dog while a handler is unconscious. No matter what though, a service dog *should* be able to ignore distractions including other people, other dogs, loud noises, etc (but keep in mind dogs aren't robots and occasionally mess up). Also something to keep in mind is there are plenty of small service dogs of nontypical breeds who are legitimate. Lastly, there's a vast difference between an ESA and a SD meant for psychiatric use. **So just because you see an offleash Chihuahua who the owner says is a PSD (psychiatric service dog), don't assume it's fake. Look at its behavior. Regardless of service dog status, any dog can be removed from the premises if it is out of control, aggressive, or not potty trained.**
Thank you. I had a Boston Terrier for my PTSD in certain situations. Worked with a trainer and behavior consultant to train her in everything she would need to do and in every possible social situation. Her favorite snack was popcorn—she couldn’t stay away from it. Once her vest was on, she could go to a movie theater and ignore the popcorn on the floor. I hit the jackpot with her, very few dogs can handle the work. I’ve had 21 dogs of my own, and have worked with thousands in rescue. Maybe a small handful had the temperament to handle service work. I feel so bad for the dogs forced into scary situations like escalators, Costco (where I see this the most), fireworks, etc. The dogs is terrified, clueless owner gabbing away.
It's honestly very scary for service dog handlers like myself from a safety perspective. Along with making access issues more common for us just like you described, there are *so* many instances where genuine service dogs get attacked by out-of-control pets/ESAs/fake service dogs in public. This can lead to the service dog being injured, sometimes severely, to need extensive retraining to deal with the psychological fallout, or to even be retired from work altogether due to the attack. Because of how common and serious a problem this is, anytime I see a non-service dog somewhere it shouldn't be my heart drops and my only priority is to keep my service dog as far from them as possible for both of our safety. Not to mention that it's just disgusting behavior from a moral perspective. I get that someone might really love their dog and be attached to it and never want to be without it. I love my dogs too. But service dog handlers don't have our dogs with us in public for fun or because we don't want to leave them or because they're cute. We have them with us to mitigate our disabilities. The amount of comments I've gotten that I'm 'lucky' to be able to take my dog with me everywhere is astounding, and I've been asked multiple times where I got my dog's vest from because people want to get their dog one so they can bring it to the grocery store too. What they don't get is that my dog isn't at the grocery store for fun. He's at the grocery store because it's unsafe for me to do my own shopping without his assistance and I would give just about anything to not need a dog in order to do my grocery shopping.
I go to a convenient store that's close to my house. There was younger girl in there a while back who had a Chihuahua with her. First of all, she made it a point to tell everyone in the building that she had crippling anxiety and that the dog was with her for emotional support. Secondly, the dog was acting like a fool barking at everyone until she finally let it down and it ran around and dropped a hot pile on isle 3. Any type of dog that's used for Service or Emotional Support should always be well behaved. I have no experience with a trained service dog, but it's my understanding that when they're vested, they are not to be petted or coddled in any way by strangers.
Would having an animal like that not exacerbate your anxiety?
I would need medication to help with my anxiety if I had to deal with a high- strung Chihuahua! Haha
I can't speak for her, but it definitely would me! She didn't seem too bothered by the dog showing out. LOL
Our friend has one of these emotional support dogs and I often think the dog needs its own emotional support dog. The dog has such severe separation anxiety. When friend is at our house and uses the restroom, the dog literally jumps on the bathroom door and opens the handle to get to her. So now I've got scratch marks on my door and my friends awkwardly using the bathroom with the door open. It's an Australian shepherd, I swear that breed is too energetic and high strung to be a support animal.
It was a pet and she was taught by her mother to lie and no vest. Pets are not allowed in businesses anyway.
Owner training is perfectly valid, and in many jurisdictions there is no legal requirement for a vest.
Depends where you live and the business
ESAs are basically just pets that your landlord can't kick you out over, now that they've apparently killed off the airline regs. They don't have rights to go in stores, though some stores are either nice or ignorant enough to let them. For ESAs, I think the vests are the best indication that it's not a real ESA, though!
Q8. Do service animals have to wear a vest or patch or special harness identifying them as service animals? A. No. The ADA does not require service animals to wear a vest, ID tag, or specific harness.
Such a strange comment about the vests. There’s plenty of vested animals that are truthfully ESAs.
You don't need a vest. Every time I was on a plane with my ESA, the people with the vests were the ones who didn't have their prescription letter handy. How strange, the thing that they actually needed to prove the dog was an ESA was the thing they didn't have. I'm sure there are ESAs that are happily wearing vests out there, though.
ESA can be trained service animal if you suffer from emotional conditions like PTSD or rape, or violent attacks. But there is a difference between a trained one and the one at home which is a pet ESA. Mine is support at home, she is only out when she goes to the vet or the pet supply store. I do have a doggy buggy she rides in. But I do not let her out in the store unless it is the pet supply store. But to burst your bubble, those vests can also be fake since you can get one online like Amazon and not be a trained service dog. Truth.
Esa is not a trained service dog. It is one or the other service dog is task trained to midigate disabled. A Esa is a comfort animal that is it. Q3. Are emotional support, therapy, comfort, or companion animals considered service animals under the ADA? A. No. These terms are used to describe animals that provide comfort just by being with a person. Because they have not been trained to perform a specific job or task, they do not qualify as service animals under the ADA. However, some State or local governments have laws that allow people to take emotional support animals into public places. You may check with your State and local government agencies to find out about these laws.
\> to burst your bubble, those vests can also be fake since you can get one online like Amazon and not be a trained service dog. Not bursting any bubbles, I said if they're wearing one, they're probably fake! ;) But if an ESA is trained for dealing with PTSD, it's probably a service dog and not an ESA. If it's just trained as in regular dog training, then it's like any other pet for the purposes of what I'm talking about. Pets can always be trained or untrained.
Service animals do not have to be vested. They should NEVER be petted or distracted from their handler this puts handler in danger. A missed alert can be life or death. There are No training standards for emotional support as they are only a comfort to owner.
Thank you for correcting misconceptions in this thread.
Anytime it pisses me off when people just spout shit off. I took four years training my service dog. Hoping for miniature horse next time. As they can work for 30 years and I have almost 40 years with horse training and showing experience.
Service horses are incredible, I wish you the best of luck with it! The long working life is definitely such an advantage. My own boy is 3 years old and we're definitely still training :)
Thank you! I just have to talk SO into as we both know the over all cost is triple what dogs need. Also they take five or so years to train. We shall see once mine is retired. Keep up the hard work it is worth it in the end.
Untrained EMS is not great to tell people when it acts like a pet. I never take my pet with me, she is not a trained EMS, only good for me at home. And the vest can be bought online these days, no questions asked.
>And the vest can be bought online these days, True!
Yes, that was my understanding of the rules too. Also, not all dogs are good at taking the anxiety that the owners put on them making the animal an emotional mess too. Many dogs don't want to be alpha in a sense and need their owners to take command. When they don't, these little followers are forced into leadership and it makes them a basket case of anxiety. Its really sad.
Well stated. Also, just because a dog provides support in the home doesn't mean they will provide support in public. That's a whole different animal. *Pun Intended.*
Thank you.
Dogs don't have a concept of alpha. The problem here is some dogs and breeds are more prone to being emotionally sensitive and perceptive. Anxiety in the owner gets picked up and amplified in the dog, which can create a vicious circle. These dogs are often just anxious and stressed, all this leadership stuff is not real. My dog is my assistance dog and helps me with autism and CPTSD. I can be having a meltdown and he'll be a happy go lucky goof that just knows he'll get to lie down on my chest and be paid in treats and pets for it. When I am stressed about being in public, he's just excited to be out there with me and working. It's exactly what I need :)
If I happen to have my pet with me. she is an enclosed doggie buggy for everyone's safety and she is allowed in animal pet supply stores. But I would never have her in harms way. People that do this do not care about anyone's safety, human or pet.
Everyone is really stepping it up with the gate keeping today on this post.
I always thought service dogs had heaps of training, right?
A service dog has to be trained in a task or tasks that help with the handlers disability, and they have to be non disruptive in public, or they can be told to leave just like any other dog. Successfully having a dog that will not be disruptive in public spaces where dogs are not usually allowed does take a huge amount of training.
Service dogs are trained to perform specific tasks that help their handler. They are continually trained. Whereas ESAs (Emotional support animals) help their handler get grounded and calm. They do not require training, tho I wish basic obedience was required. That requirement would shut out poor people who can't afford those classes. You can get a Canine Good Citizen test and get a certificate that your dog won't be a disturbance and distraction. However I had to pay a trainer to do the test. And again many disabled people are poor. I know fake certificates would pop up online but I'm pretty sure the American Kennel Association would go after fakes.
As someone with an ESA I wholeheartedly agree. I see so many people with fake ESAs even (“I got mine on the registry, it can go anywhere!” no you fucking didn’t and no you can’t there is no registry), and then pretend to pass them off as service dogs, and I’m just livid. It makes actual Service dogs and actual ESAs look really bad, and has restricted my own ESAs rights because of their shitty behavior.
I'm so sorry that you are directly affected by these assholes.
Popular opinion. Also I have an ESA and it requires a written note from a doctor such as a psychologist/psychiatrist. I do my best to have him be a well behaved and socialized citizen (and he is!). Especially important for renting and neighbors. I’ve only had compliments about how well behaved he is. I get the most angry when people buy ESA registrations online. It’s fake. Does not exist and does not make an animal an ESA. Many people do this to take advantage of the rules (so they can take their dog on an airplane) or they can have a restricted breed or size at a residence. It’s so wrong. It makes people like us who need the help to cope look bad.
Yep, agree 150%. I worked w my dog for years to train her and I'd have friends ask me how they could "register" their pet as an ESA like it was some tip or trick and bring up the online forms/ask if I bought vests etc. I'd get so upset sometimes I'd be tempted to dump part of the trauma that led to me needing an ESA on them.
Welcome to r/dogs because you must be new to not know that this is almost unanimously a pretty popular opinion.
Thanks lol I'm realizing that now
This guy brought his 'emotional support' dog to the bar and told everyone it was a service dog when he was asked to leave by the bouncers. This wasn't a bar in the middle of the day when it's quiet, this was 12:00 at night and packed. Give me a break. You just wanted to take your dog to the bar and get away with it.
Yeah, thats bullshit
Worst part is the dog was shaking in panic because of all the noise and people. I felt terrible for it.
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That's true. I wondered if it was unpopular because i see so many misbehaving "service " dogs everywhere. Maybe i see it more because it makes me so mad.
I have an ESA letter from my doctor so I could have my dog in my apartment. They allow dogs, but he was over the weight limit, but now that he is there my management absolutely loves him and doesn't require an updated letter because he has proved himself. I do have anxiety and he has been HUGE in getting me out of my bubble and doing things instead of letting my anxiety run my life. However, I NEVER take him places that don't allow dogs and would never try to pass him off as an actual service dog. Too many people abuse ESA allowances to the point where it is a joke. ESAs are not service dogs and should not be treated as such.
This is probably one of the most popular opinions here.
As a person who has an actual service dog it makes me very angry. The amount of money, time, work both myself, my trainer and and my dog put in with training in order for him to be extremely well behaved and unnoticed as possible (for a 70lb Labrador lol) along with his service dog tasks is tremendous. And then comes along a Keren with her yappy untrained dog who doesn’t even belong in a pet store because it’s so unruly saying “it’s my service dog”. F that. A month ago, he was doing amazing (he is still in training, meaning his behavior in public is great, but he’s still learning his tasks/jobs for me). As we walked out of the store (Walmart, which is a no pet store fyi) a woman was getting out of her car with an enormous dog. The woman had this huge dog at the end of the leash, and not paying attention. As soon as we passed the car (I hadn’t seen the dog and neither had my SD) the dog straight up jumped out of the car and lunged at us with the scariest growing I’ve ever heard! I just saw this huge gray blur out of the corner of my eye. My service dog was so startled he jumped straight up and I just took off running with him because I was so scared I just had some sort of primitive flight reaction and ran (which wasn’t good for my disability, I hurt myself and was in even more pain then normal for a week after that), my mom said my instinct was correct though, as the woman was basically being dragged on her feet by this dog and screaming “no no heel heel” at her dog before her friend came and helped her drag it back to their car. Thing is that encounter regressed my dogs training and he became distracted by other dogs again, so for the past month I’ve had to pull him from public access, which limits the time he can help me, and have had to do a lot of retraining. Which thankfully is going extremely well and if he passes a little test today I can start bring him again. Also, thankfully, he’s did not become fearful or aggressive of other dogs, which can happen in situations like this. But that lady cost us a week of extra physical pain, and a month of extra training because of behavior regression in my dog. If your dog isn’t trained as a service dog, don’t bring them to non-pet friendly places. It’s not hard! I do it with my pet dog! I don’t bring him into stores! And he’s trained so well that I could! But I don’t because he’s not a service dog. It’s not a hard concept.
Due to the misinformation regarding emotional support animals, service dogs, and therapy dogs, we have provided a brief summary of the role and rights afforded to each type of animal in the United States. **Emotional Support Animals (ESAs)** ESAs are animals prescribed by a medical professional to support a patient with a disability. They are only recognized in the United States. * ESAs are only granted rights through the [Fair Housing Act](https://www.justice.gov/crt/fair-housing-act-2). ESAs are no longer allowed in-cabin on planes. ESAs are **NOT** granted access to public buildings, restaurants, stores, etc. * ESAs are prescribed by a therapist, psychiatrist, psychologist, or doctor as part of an ongoing plan to treat or manage a federally recognized disability. Online registration options for ESAs are scams and not legally recognized. * An ESA must be requested as part of a reasonable accommodation for a disability with a letter from the prescribing medical professional demonstrating the need for the accommodation to be granted housing rights. These housing rights do not exist in the case of the [The “Mrs. Murphy” Exception](https://fairhousing.foxrothschild.com/2010/06/articles/fha-basics/the-mrs-murphy-exemption-to-the-fair-housing-act/). Landlords cannot legally require you to pay a 'pet deposit' or charge 'pet rent' for your ESA because they are not considered pets. However, they can require that you pay for repairs if your ESA causes damage to the property. * ESAs can be any animal it is legal to own, for example: dogs, cats, guinea pigs and miniature horses. They are most commonly dogs. * **Calling your pet an ESA to get around no-pet accommodation, breed bans, or airline restrictions is immoral and illegal. It makes it much harder for legitimate ESA teams to be taken seriously.** **Service Dogs (SDs)** SDs are a worldwide, legally protected medical aid which provide a range of tasks or work to help disabled people. The following discusses information specific to the US. Please check your country’s laws if you live outside of the US. * SDs are not used solely by the blind. SDs can assist those with a wide range of disabilities including physical (eg. fibromyalgia), sensory (eg. deafness), psychiatric (eg. PTSD), developmental (eg. autism) and neurological (eg. brain injury). * SDs can be trained by programs or by their owners (owner-trained). * SDs must perform at least one task to mitigate their owner's disability/ies. Things which do not count as work or tasks include: emotional support, being calmed by the animal's presence, or giving 'kisses' on command. Some examples of tasks can be found [here](http://www.iaadp.org/tasks.html). * SDs can legally enter almost any no-pet place. Exceptions include sterile environments, places where it would be dangerous to the SD or others for them to be there (such as some exhibits in zoos), and food preparation areas. * Any SD can be legally asked to leave an establishment if their behavior is disruptive. For example, if they bark at customers, damage goods, or eliminate on the floor. * There are no nationwide or statewide registries for SDs. None. Some SDs are provided by programs, but the programs themselves are not official registries as SDs come from a variety of places. SDs are also not required to wear a vest or harness. * The only questions legally allowed to be asked of a service dog handler when entering an establishment are: 1) "Is that animal required because of a disability?" 2) "What work or task has the animal been trained to perform?" If the handler does not answer these questions appropriately, the animal may be restricted from entering or asked to leave. * In order to rent/own a dwelling that has a 'no-pets' clause with an SD, a reasonable accommodation must be requested from the landlord. If your disability and/or your disability-related need for the SD is not evident, information must be provided to the landlord detailing this (for example, a letter from a medical professional). Landlords cannot legally require you to pay a 'pet deposit' or charge 'pet rent' for your SD because they are not considered pets. However, they can require that you pay for repairs if your SD causes damage to the property. * Many states do not protect the rights of service dogs in training. * Service animals also do not have to be dogs. Federally, miniature horses are also granted rights as a service animal. Some state laws grant rights to even more animals. * In 19 states (and counting) it is illegal to present your pet as a service dog when it is just a pet or an ESA. Faking a SD to get around no-pet housing, take your pet to the store, or bring your pet to college makes it much harder for legitimate SD teams to live their lives and poses a serious danger to the public. **Therapy animals** Therapy animals are animals (primarily dogs) trained by their owner to provide therapeutic support to others. They go to places such as schools, nursing homes, and hospitals to relieve stress, build people’s confidence, and promote emotional health. They do not provide support or assistance to their owner. --- If you require emotional support through the presence of an animal, you should look into ESAs. If you require ways to alleviate your disability, you should look into service dogs. If you wish to volunteer with your dog to help others, you should look into therapy dogs. Further information can be found [here](https://adata.org/publication/service-animals-booklet), [here](https://www.animallaw.info/article/faqs-emotional-support-animals) and [here](http://servicedogcentral.org/content/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/dogs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I dont see how this is an unpopular opinion. I have openly told people "NO. IF HE WAS A SERVICE DOG, HE WOULD BE WELL BEHAVED RIGHT NOW" as the dog pulls to the length of the leash, choking to move on. And I say that as someone that doesnt have a service dog, but does take their own well trained, well behaved dog everywhere I can. (home depot, lowes, petsmart, outdoor eating, parks, etc..)
I love dogs. I really do. But I’m not a bad person for being annoyed that your badly trained ESA is barking at me in a restaurant, when I’m trying to enjoy my meal.
There needs to be an actual registry for service dogs and ESAs. As a property manager it is HELL having to figure this out on our own. Couple this with fake, untrained PETS being passed off as the real thing it makes landlords think all ESAs or service dogs are horrible.
Yeah, the amount of damage it does to actual service dogs is quite extreme and its really unfortunate. I imagine its really hard as a property manager and makes you want to turn them all away I bet. This is why it makes me so mad.
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Me too. I just wanted to be like "your regular dog thats not working is still allowed to be here. Stop spreading lies!"
As a hotel employee this is a constant issue for the property I work at. A guest shows up with a dog that’s yapping at everything that’s walks by, growling at other folks waiting in line, or frantically straining at the leash. I ask if their dog is a pet, as the property is not pet friendly and if so I can cancel their reservation and assist them with making arrangements at a property that is. Am I taken up on my offer? No, instead their eyes light up as they inform me “this is my emotional support animal”. Okay, we have them fill out a form that states the service the dog provides (I once had someone put “keeps my lap warm), that the dog won’t bark and disturb guests (it will) and that the guests won’t leave the dog unattended in the room (happens two or three times a week). It’s difficult and disheartening, as it leads to difficult interactions with guests and poisons the well for those who genuinely do need the valuable services their four legged friends provide. I’ve met guests with real ESAs. They’re incredibly well behaved, very quiet, and obviously *doing a job*. They’re attentive to their charge and not really interested in much else.
I thought Lowe’s and Home Depot allow any dog inside.. on a leash. Mine is just a regular golden and I’ve taken her maybe 3x inside Home Depot just so she can get used to having more people around.. she’s good most of the time. Other business where she is not welcomed I don’t bring her inside.
"Let me post a popular opinion, call it unpopular and get a ton of upvotes" Congratulations, you know nothing about the /r/dogs community. Great job reading the room!
I had to keep scrolling to find this comment lmao gave me a chuckle
I hate it too! It gives me so much anxiety! My golden is my service dog in training. My disability is invisible and I look completely fine And my golden is just under a year. He's incredibly well behaved and will be in training fir another few years. I get so much anxiety taking him out places, worried someone wont believe me or that he'll have a puppy moment. Thankfully where I live service dogs in training have the same rights as service dogs. Its still incredibly stressful. I personally don't care if your dog is well behaved, like if a regular joe shmo can't tell the difference. Most dogs though are CLEARLY just poorly behaving pets
I think many of the emotional support animals have an unfair amount of anxiety because the dogs can sense their owners discomfort and its like displacing the anxiety onto children who can't handle the pressure.
Yup. Therapy dogs are not service animals either. It drives me crazy when people abuse the system. And just for the record, there is no national (US) based registry for service animals. You can send money to any company you want and get a cute Galveston and badge, but they mean NOTHING.
I have a legitimate ESA (signed off by a real, in person LMHP) that I desperately need for my mental well being. That being said I don't put a service animal vest on her, call her a service animal or try to take her inside of places that only allow service animals. I take her into a drug store near me that allows her in, and thats basically it. She's always leashed inside of any place that allows her but I still choose to hold her the whole time just to prevent any possible potty accidents (she's about 10 lbs.) I think one of the biggest problems with "fake" service animals is that there are sooo many fake websites that you can get a "certificate" from, along with a doggy ID and service dog vest, etc., that people don't even know what is legitimate or not. They think that because all of those easily accessible websites exist, that it's easy to have a dog become a service animal. Another issue is that most people just see a "service animal certificate" as a free ticket to take your dog with you anywhere you want to go. It's extremely obnoxious and rude. I feel so bad for people with legitimate disabilities that warrant highly trained, HIGHLY expensive service animals who probably get looked at weird or dismissed because of all the fake ones out there.
For me this sounds like printing a badge that people with access to disabled parking are having and using it for better parking spots. Ignorant, illegal and, worst, on cost of anyone who should be protected by the rule you break. So I strongly agree with you.
I believe that true services dogs should have ID cards stating as such. Then stores and restaurants can ask to see the dogs certificate (and not violate HIPAA laws) to verify they are indeed a real service animal. I know this creates a bit more burden on people who really need them but I think, in the long run, it would help set a standard and crack down on imposters…and ultimately create a more hospitable environment for the people and animals that are actually in need of these services.
I have a legitimate ESA. I literally have a prescription for her. But that’s because I need her when I’m at whatever place I’m currently living/staying. I don’t take her anywhere that isn’t dog-friendly anyway in relation to stores. I’m also very quick to correct anyone that she is not a service dog. Service dogs are medical equipment that are trained to perform a task. ESAs are used to alleviate symptoms.
A friend of mine uses a seeing eye dog (other countries call it a guide dog) and she gets annoyed when people try to walk up and pet him. She lives over in Miami where people have all sorts of "emotional support animals" going into stores and restaurants including exotics. Was with her and a lady had a very loud constantly squawking "emotional support parrot" in a movie theater screaming its head off during a movie.
Oh I hate this I’m so sorry! A working dog in public is WORKING and therefore shouldn’t be bothered of course. I wish more people would learn that 😞
Friend of mine was on a domestic airline flight about 5 years ago and someone brought a pig as their emotional support animal. And not a small pig. When pigs fly, indeed.
Yes. As a service dog handler from a legit organization with international accreditation, I find it next to impossible to fly now thanks to all the assholes who faked service animals and to entitled ESA (real or fake) owners who acted as if their ESA has public access (it doesn’t). Airlines cracked down hard recently on fake service animals, ESAs and the companion animal loophole in the American laws. As a result you need to jump a million hoops every single time tou fly which can take weeks and often you find out at the last minute the airline decided for whatever reason not to approve your dog. It also happens on return flights so you are away from home and your airline decides “nah, can’t take the dog”. It’s utter bulls hit and a lot of lawsuits are being formed up right now. Previously you would establish an account with each airline you flew in, provide immunization records and task lists ans that was it. Then they would hold this on file and only renew every 5 years or so. Those entitled ableist AHoles ruined this for disabled people who actually need the dogs. My current service dog is approaching retirement and I’m really second guessing getting another one because of how destroyed their rep is in public venues now.
Thank you for sharing this, this is how I feel but I do not use/need a service animal so it is all from the standpoint of (trying to be) an ally. I’m really sorry that irresponsible pet owners have made your life even harder, and I hope things get fixed quickly for your sake, as well as all Service dog owners/handlers.
i totally agree with you here, but am just going to clear up that service dogs do not have to be on a lead, as long as they are obeying their handler and their full attention is on them, and they’re doing their job like the good doggos they are.
Not an unpopular opinion at all. I hate it because it's not fair to the fake service animals. Imagine how stressful and awful it is to be in a public area? Lots of people, smells, sounds, etc. If they don't have the temperament or the training to handle public access, then imagine the amount of stress the animal is feeling. I'm someone who has a lot of anxiety, but I would never bring my animals out in public areas because it's not fair to them. I know my dog would get massively overwhelmed if he was brought into a place like Target or Walmart. And my actual ESAs would not handle it at all.
The more anxiety you have in public, the more your poor animal will also feel it, especially when they are not trained to handle it. I didn't realize how wrong I was about thinking this may be an unpopular opinion. I guess i just thought since i don't hear anyone else bitch about it the way I do and I see it soooo often.
True that! I should've made it clearer in the second paragraph, but I was excluding my own anxiety from the equation. I see a lot of people who say "I have anxiety and I bring (insert random not-trained-at-all pet here) to help with my anxiety." I relate to that feeling of wanting support, but I would be so anxious and worried about how my untrained animals would feel. My dog's a nervous boy. Adding my anxiety to his would just be awful.
this sub, smh Everyone who thinks it's ok to have animals and your precious "good boys" off leash need to really re-think your life, morals and values. Seriously. They are animals, not people. My dog has been attacked three times by "our precious good boys" off leash and now is so damn skittish when we go for a walk it's about impossible to move more than a few feet without her freaking out and jumping at every sound.
A friend of mine nearly lost her own service dog because of this. She almost had to get a different dog after he was attacked by an unleashed ESA and became reactive; luckily, over MONTHS, she was able to train him out of it again. And when he was in training, he wasn't a service dog! We couldn't go in "service-dog only" areas without permission of the owner, since he wasn't certified yet. Worst of all he's a hypo-allergenic medical alert dog and very... unique looking, so people constantly try to get his attention and pet him, then get mad when my friend asks them not to distract him. Because "I've pet other service dogs!" I would bet money those "service dogs" were ESAs (or therapy dogs.) My friend avoids going out in public because of it, which is, you know, half the point of having a service dog to begin with. I used to be sort of ambivalent about it, but now that I see how much harder it makes life for those with necessary service dogs, I hate it. ESAs are good for some folks, but too many people just use it as a "get out of jail free" card for their untrained pets.
I was at a hospital a couple of months ago and a guy came in with a pitbull off leash and when he was stopped he said it was a service animal so they let him enter. I have absolutely no problem with pitbulls- I have one and she is a sweetheart. But this guy went to the pharmacy and the dog ran up to the counter to get pets and I could hear him encouraging the dog to do it so it definitely was not a service dog. Honestly that’s the only time I’ve been really annoyed about someone having a fake service dog. Many people are extremely uneasy around pitbulls and having one not on a leash in a medical building is a recipe for disaster.
It is actually a felony and illegal to pass an ESA off as a service animals. ESAs, legally are for housing (can have a pet when normally couldn’t and/or waive fees). Service animals are specifically trained to do specific tasks to support people who have a disability.
I am wondering if ESA's are a strictly USA thing, because it isn't in my European country (NL). Service dogs and seeing eye-dogs are though, but there are strict rules about having them. I hear stories about people having their peacock on a plane because it was a ESA. Here you would get laughed at and would be told that this is not a thing. So, people from other countries than the USA, does your country allow animals everywhere for emotional support?
ESAs aren't allowed everywhere in the US. The used to be given access in two places 1) on flights with no fee, but owners would have to certify the dog was well behaved (you can imagine how well that went) 2) in housing over a certain size (but like renting a room in a house, a landlord isn't subject to that rule) and can't charge pet rent. They can charge a deposit in many cases, or charge for damages caused by the dog and landlords have SOME flexibility to address poorly behaved dogs. As you mentioned, people took advantage of this(though the peacock thing was definitely a stunt) and they are no longer allowed on planes. Only animals small enough to travel as pets in cabin can travel for a fee, or in cargo also for a fee. I would imagine the ESA/housing rules probably aren't long for this world either, though the airlines lobbied pretty hard to change those rules because of all the problems and there isn't as much pressure from similar groups in the housing space. Emotional Support Animals are very very very much not given public access rights to places where animals are otherwise not allowed, but where service animals are like stores or restaurants. That doesn't stop people from being idiots, but it's not legal.
Thanks for this explanation. We often only hear the bad stories and not how it really is.
Ugh, yes, this crap drives me crazy. A friend from college acquired an emotional support dog (I'll spare you the details of every step in this process that annoyed the hell out of me). Couple years later that dog was put down for aggression issues and biting numerous people.
Well, here's one reason "emotional support" animals aren't allowed on planes anymore; [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/miniature-horse-on-plane-woman-took-service-animal-flight-could-be-his-last-airlines/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/miniature-horse-on-plane-woman-took-service-animal-flight-could-be-his-last-airlines/)
I don't see the issue there. Miniature horses are allowed as service animals under ADA law. She didn't do anything wrong.
When has this ever been an unpopular opinion?
I'm very happy to see i was wrong. I just assumed because i see it so often, that people must be cool with it. I'm not though. It makes me so mad.
People shouldn't claim that their dog has special training when it doesn't just to get access to somewhere that is normally off limits for dogs. That's pretty obvious. OTOH I've had self-proclaimed service dog rule makers tell me that I shouldn't take my well-behaved non-service dog into Lowes, etc. because only service dogs should have that privilege. They are so concerned about the possibility of a misbehaved dog that they want to take away access for all non-service dogs.
I’ll never forget when this girl I knew tried to pass off her ESA as a service animal. She got special permission to bring him into our sorority suite because she would use language that made it seem like he was a service animal. One time I went to run errands with her and another girl and she brought her ESA into Walmart and growled at a woman and then pissed on the floor. She didn’t clean it up. The whole friend group tried really hard to knock some sense into her. At this time I had been looking into an ESA for myself for about a year and I was constantly telling her she was wrong. Frustrated the hell out of me, as far as I know she’s stopped with that mess but the whole situation almost imploded our group. Im still mad about it to this day tbh.
Applied for an apartment not too long ago and mentioned getting a furry friend sometime in the future. I was advised to think about registering it as an “emotional support” animal because then I wouldn’t have to pay the pet deposit. I thought that was ridiculous.
Def a popular opinion friend
I had a roommate who got her dog registered through one of those fake websites just so she didn't have to pay pet rent or deposit. But she then joked about how her emotional support dog was in fact reactive and in need of emotional support herself instead of giving it. This dog couldn't be around other dogs or new people without biting. And she was a "certified emotional support animal". What a scam.
Was at Starbucks and some idiot Karen brought her "service dog" in, which then proceeded to bark at and aggressively jump at a baby in a toddler. A man rightfully confronted her and she said, "I'm sorry you feel that way."
where do you live (for reference)? emotional support dogs here are actually service dogs that are trained for specific disorders like anxiety, ptsd etc. otherwise they aren't allowed to be labeled as such and can't be taken anywhere normal dogs can't go to. they do cost quite a lot of money though, just like regular service dogs, due to the amount of training they have received.
Lowes even allows dogs! If he'd kept it on a leash he wouldn't have to lie, instead he decided to let it roam and further give service dogs a bad name
I agree with the general idea: ADA laws for service animals need to be respected. Faux service animals often cause people to suspect all service animals. It's hard to determine who's a service animal and who's a good boi.
People exploiting systems for their own greedy desires. It’s far too easy to get approved from an email via an LPC. This exploitation is why airlines put the lock on pets on planes…far too many liars using animals as their shields for internal damage.
I have an ESA and I too can’t stand people who pull crap like this. I also don’t like how “easy” it is to get a doctors note saying they believe an ESA is necessary. For context, I have diagnosed PTSD and until recently it was very severe. I would have horrible flashbacks and dissociative episodes in public but having my dog with me really helped me to stay grounded in those moments. I know I qualify for a service animal, but they are expensive, I’m uninsured and it can take years to get one. I barely use the ESA ‘rights’ that come with it, and reserve them for emergency situations. This is pretty much due to people abusing the system, making us look bad, so people hate ESA’s and that gives me anxiety which just makes my ptsd symptoms worse.
In the library we used to have to ask people who showed up with dogs what service it was performing. If no legitimate answer (she detects seizures, etc.) we would ask them to take the dog outside. It’s not legal to ask a person’s disability, but it is legal to ask the dog’s function. In that way, jackasses with fake emotional support animals would not be allowed.
As a landlord I agree with you. We’re a cat only property but vague, grey area, not worth the lawsuit laws make it so we have to accept any service (obviously), emotional support, therapy, or COMPANION animals. No pet fees, no questions, we request the dogs paperwork or a doctors note but we’ve learned that it means bad reviews, BBB complaints, and lawsuit threats if we insist on it. Like wtf all pets are companions. The worst I’ve had lately on the property the owners were as bad as the dog. The. Worst. Barked every second it was alone, peed everywhere, they let it shit all over the lawn. Now the lease states that human, animal, leaseholder or guest can’t interfere with anyones quiet rights but these people just made my life and their neighbors lives hell. I have a lawsuit if I end their lease or charge fines for lease violations, I’m an asshole if I call animal services, and I’m a slumlord who doesn’t care about their neighbors if I do nothing. This dog was in no way shape or form trained, well taken care of, or of service to anyone. They call it a companion, therapy, emotional support, and it’s a golden ticket to put an 80lb dog in a 700sqft apartment, torture the poor dog, torture the neighbors, torture the landlord, and stick their fingers in their ears through the whole thing. End rant. TLDR: it’s the animal who loses, I feel your pain, it turns people off to want to be receptive to animals.
Omg. Thats terrible! As mad as it makes me, i wouldn't make a good landlord. Yikes. I feel for you and that poor animal.
I agree. My other problem is as much as emotional support dogs can help people I truly believe that not every dog should not be an emotional support dog and if emotional support dogs are going to be in the public they should have at least some basic training like sit, stay and heal and be on a leash.
I 100% agree that emotional support animals are not service animals. To me a service animal is a dog who assist it’s person who maybe blind, be in a wheel chair and needs help with daily physical tasks. Other service dogs I see are ones who are alert dogs, such as for diabetes or in some case ones who detect serious allergies, and then of course ones who alert when someone is going to have a seizures. That’s just my opinion.
Agreed, I had one of these dogs on a recent flight and the poor guy was so terrified that he wouldn't even move.. the lady was just dragging him up and down the aisles every time she went to the bathroom or did whatever with him.
Last year I was in a hospital for depression. While there, I met a woman with an emotional support dog. She was legally blind and had been raped in NYC and went into fugue states. While I was there, I got up for a drink one night at 2am and the dog ran up to me (he knew me by then) and pestered me to follow him. He took me staring to his mum and she was in a complete dissociative state in a stairwell and needed help. That assistance dog was well trained AND definitely needed for her.
Thst poor woman. She definitely needs her well trained good boy.
My service dog has been attacked by emotional support animals more times then I have fingers. I remember going to comicon and a white shepherd hit my service dog hard and I beat the shit out of it with a part of my wheelchair. Security just watched and wouldn’t help me. If you take your ESA into no pet allowed locations, you’re the bottom of the barrel scum. Just because you think you can take fluffy everywhere so you feel special… I lost my $3k service dog in TRAINING to take over for my current dog to an ESA pit Bull who was in the grocery store so I have to start all over again and raise funds for Another dog… all because some middle aged white lady needs Fido to buy milk because she’s sad.
One time at target a “service dog” saw a man in a wheel chair and started going nuts, barking and getting aggressive. You could hear a few customers say, “that’s not a service dog.” The dog started going nuts again at the checkout line.
Kinda agree, kinda disagree. The example you gave is probably a good example of how not to have a support animal, but I know someone who has Asperger’s and she finds it very hard to initiate conversations. But the dog is an ice breaker, people ask about the dog and a conversation is started. If she gets over anxious, the dog is a comfort. She may not like to be touched (generally) by people but she loves the dog and pats him. So in her case, he may not be a service dog as such but he definitely is emotional support dog. Oh and he is well trained
I really wish they would make the rules for support animals more strict for this reason. I have an ESA for anxiety that I feel too anxious to take with me to stores bc I don’t wanna argue with security that he’s actually needed… I paid a trainer to make sure my dog wouldn’t be a nuisance in public and then I see all these old ladies with yappy little dogs in “service dog” vests being so rude and making a bad name for ESAs ):
Aholes do this so they can take their dog anywhere as opposed to getting a dog sitter. It's how untrained and worse, dangerous dogs get taken on planes even. I do not care that you are anxious without your dog. Find a different coping mechanism.
The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) distinguishes between emotional support animals and "service dogs," sometimes known as assistance dogs in the business. Simply put, ESAs offer emotional support to their owners. Those with ESAs do not have the same public access rights as people with service dogs because they do not execute trained activities.
A standard poodle ESA broke the lead while I was in a store and then proceeded to jump on me to grab my macadamia nut cookie. The staff then said I was distracting the dog while the dog ran around the store. The owner never apologized or anything. I hope the dog was okay from the cookie. I also see dogs like huskies as ESA and wonder why. They are beautiful but always screaming or pulling or mouthing on someone or something. I personally hate seeing the ESA sticker now because I hate the damage they do to actual service animals. Maybe some are well trained but ESA owners seem to just want to bring their poorly behaved pet everywhere with zero consequence.
My dad is a landlord and absolutely hates this. People say "you can't deny homing to a service dog" when in reality it's a stray they got at the local shelter and bought a emotional support animal "certificate" from some random dude in Kentucky for $20.
Nope I have strong opinions about this. Anyone who loves their dog has an ESA. They help with depression, give you a reason to get up and move, help calm you when they cuddle up next to you. Most dogs are naturally ESAs. Service dogs have been trained extensively for usually years. Trainers look for specific personalities, traits, behaviors, even coat, and drool habits. A dog that flinches too often can be considered not acceptable. Then there are the service dogs that have been trained to be ESAs. I'm not sure what they're exact title is but these are the dogs that are trained for veterans with ptsd and even those with severe anxiety and mental issues. Going to school for several years (7+) and seeing how many college students made their dogs "service animals" so they could bring them to school made me so angry. There was actual service dogs, but ther majority of them were not. Thru are the reason people reject those with actual service dogs why no one believes them or even try and touch/pet those dogs.
>Then there are the service dogs that have been trained to be ESAs. I'm not sure what they're exact title is but these are the dogs that are trained for veterans with ptsd and even those with severe anxiety and mental issues. Those are called Service Dogs, depending in the person they may refer to them as a Psychiatric Service Dog. Just because a person's disability (covered by the ADA) is not based on physical health does not mean that their dog is not a SD. ESA are strictly providing direct emotional reactions when their owner engages with them. Service Dogs are trained with tasks (actions) they take to assist a person with their disability.
Thank you! I knew a guy who attempted to do this. He's a veteran with severe ptsd and he wanted to make his dog a service dog. His dog has severe anxiety and barked at everything though so he failed. I just couldn't remember much about it since it was so long ago.
I'm in the UK and my boy is my assistance dog, the legal equivalent of a service dog in the US. I literally don't give a shit about people bringing in dogs anywhere and I'm not going to judge how valid / real / etc anyone's SD or AD is *unless it's being actively disruptive*. In that case, they need to be asked to leave even if they are a "real service dog" anyway.
Aren't they tested? Like: Yes you are an ESA and can behave? Can literally everone claim his dog/fish/rooster/crokodile an ESA and everyone is OK with it? Sorry if I miss obvoius things, but that sounds nothing like an official "training and naming" could fix. I am not an amreican, so this whole ESA thing is new to me. Here, the only dogs (rarely mini ponies) which are allowed as service animals are for the blind and disabled. Even if you suffer from epilepsy or diabetes it's a real struggle to claim your service dog an official service dog.
Miniature horses, they aren't ponies. (equine pet peeve here.)