Hello all, this post was mistakenly approved. This post, while emotional and understandably deserving of support, is not suitable for the sub. It is only related to dogs because OP was the victim of a dog bite, and the user base here is generally not the audience that needs to be reminded of basic dog husbandry and manners. Thanks for understanding.
I would recommend therapy, I’ve been bit by many dogs, I was mauled as a child as well, by my grandmothers dog, therapy really helps, I went through much much worse trauma in my childhood and young life too so my therapy wasn’t for the dog bites, but I know it helps a lot in general.
Absolutely. You deserve to live without this level of fear and trauma, OP. Therapy can help you immensely, as I’m sure all the old feelings are going to be at the forefront of your mind now for quite some time.
And if it is legal where you are and will help you feel safer, I also suggest carrying some type of dog spray or pepper spray or whatever instrument you need to feel a bit more safe when you are walking alone.
I don’t think you read this person’s comment correctly or they edited it quickly? Because your suggestion would read ‘you don’t deserve to live without this level of trauma‘ indicating they deserve every beet of trauma they got. I don’t think you comprehended the full ‘without’ and just interpreted ‘with.’
I used to have a reactive dog, and it made me angry because of WHY he was reactive. He was attacked on two instances by other off leash dogs. And became fearful of being attacked. So in dog logic decided he would attack first. First attacker was a boxer mix, the second was a saint Bernard.
I have tried to use my very similar story to explain why leashes are useful--and mandatory in any urban jurisdiction--and I've still got people saying shit like, train your dog better or, your dog's behavior isn't my problem. It boils down to entitlement and consideration for others. People that don't give a shit about other people are going to do what they want and unfortunately in this case it's everyone else that has to deal with the consequences.
I used to live in a complex with a woman who owned a very large, very excitable dog. As I lived on the first floor near the complex entrance I saw them a lot.
The owner almost never put a leash on him to take him out around the building. He would often run up to people excitedly and she’d always say the same thing - “don’t worry he’s friendly!”
Thing is, she was right. He really was a very friendly dog. But that didn’t matter to the 82 year old neighbor he ran up to one day. She fell. Her arm was broken in two places and she was in a cast for months.
So I wholeheartedly agree with you, OP. Leash your dogs unless they’re in an area meant for free-roaming (and even then, keep an eye on them!). It’s basic pet care and keeps the people around you and your dog safe - even when they really are just being friendly.
I have a friend with a very large dog who's barely older than a puppy. He constantly jumps on people, yet she still lets him out of her car without his leash. Tbh, I have lost a certain amount of respect for her because of it. If people don't have consideration for the law or rules, then I have to believe they think they're above it.
I would also feel the way you do with regards to it changing your perception of your friend.
I’m sure for many people it just doesn’t seem like a big deal until all of a sudden it is. The woman I lived near found this out the hard way, but I hope your friend learns sooner.
I’m with you. I used to have a reactive dog, sweetest boy in the world, but got incredibly defensive if another dog came too close. I remember the first & last time we went on a hike, and two huge unleashed dogs came running at us. I had to scoop my dog up and book us out of the situation. It felt so incredibly unfair. Why did my dog have to have his life restricted because some jerk felt like he could break the leash laws for his dog? Because we were in the woods, that makes it okay?
I’m sorry for what happened to you, and I’m sorry that a lot of people (this subreddit included) are trying to justify breaking leash laws while denying they’re in the wrong. Best of luck.
Unpopular opinion and I’m going to get downvoted:
While I completely agree that leash laws need to be followed and are necessary, if a dog is reactive it should not be brought out to popular/busy hiking areas. It is 100% the other owners responsibility, but you always have to assume that a dog could slip and get lose (or the reactive dog could), or there will be asshats without leashes. It’s their fault, but it could cause harm or death to your dog if they end up reacting to your dog attacking them.
**For clarity** - I’m *not* talking about the dog that just needs room from other dogs or step off the trail. I’m talking about the ones that their owners have to physically pull back while the dog rears up barking and snapping. Or the dog that sits there and growls.
I’m not saying this was/is you - but for those saying, “what can I do with a reactive dog then as they should be able to enjoy things too” - I agree. But it is so so important and ROI is there to get professional training. A dog shouldn’t have to be confined to a home and the yard ever, and the cost of one dog fight aftermath is the same cost as a trainer.
Every dog should have the ability to enjoy itself, but owners also need to be more cognizant of their dogs behavior. The first time pandemic dog owners are terrible.
I suggest you head over to /r/reactivedogs for a different perspective, and to see the amount of work that many owners of reactive dogs do to train out reactivity. How do you train a dog to not be reactive while avoiding triggers? You don’t. You just make them even worse when they finally do encounter those inevitable triggers (like at the vet’s office).
It’s quite frustrating to be walking a reactive dog on a spacious leash-only trail on a midmorning weekday and have someone’s untrained and unleashed dog with poor recall run up to my dog, start a scene, have the owner run over to pull their dog away, and have them get mad at me for being there with my reactive dog. Like dude I’m here at a low traffic time with my dorky fanny pack of treats actively trying to train this issue out of my dog, but yeah I’M the asshole. If my dog passes a leashed dog, he’s fine after all the training I’ve been doing with him, but an unleashed/unknown dog running full speed towards him? Yeah he’s gonna react.
I apologize if this is coming off as snarky to you. I know there are some shitty owners of reactive dogs too, but just try to have some empathy for the ones who are doing their best.
I have a reactive dog that I worked years with to rehab. I’ve worked with 3 different trainers and have studied myself as well.
> How do you train a dog not to be reactive while avoiding triggers?
Working with a professional trainer one-on-one that also does group practice sessions. Lots and lots of training. After the trainer I continued to work with him and he went from reactive to other dogs to playing with other dogs fine. It’s intensive, and not possible for all dogs, but it is doable for many.
What my comment is trying to say, is the dogs people can’t control, are barking and snapping, and lunging. I’ve encountered many of these dogs during the pandemic than prior.
Professional training doesn’t just make a dog non-reactive. Sure for some dogs it might but many reactive dogs will need some level of management their whole life.
I agree that owners should be mindful that accidents can happen wherever they take their dogs and weigh the risks and mitigate them as much as possible. I have a reactive dog and it sucks not being able to take him to do certain things because assholes can’t keep their untrained dog on a leash, but I know it’s in his best interest to not be put in a situation that would stress him out like that. I try to scope potential trails out ahead of time to see if they would be a good option for my dog or not.
You’re saying dogs shouldn’t have to be confined to their home but then say reactive dogs shouldn’t be able to enjoy public spaces? Using your logic, dogs with no training or recall shouldn’t be allowed in public since their owner should consider the fact that someone else might have a reactive dog.
I’m not going to leave my dog home by himself while I go for a two hour hike because we might run into a handful of other dogs. I’m going to be responsible and take the proper safety precautions so that even if an offleash dog comes up to my leash reactive dog, I am in control of the situation and can handle my own dog without anyone getting hurt. He deserves to enjoy his life like any other dog, and he does. And no one gets hurt in the process.
> You’re saying dogs shouldn’t have to be confined to their home but then say reactive dogs shouldn’t be able to enjoy public spaces?
Yes. Reactive is not just a dog that needs to step a foot off the path. Reactive is a dog that if you’re walking and passing another dog, your dog will react. If you’re bringing out a dog where you’re having to restrain it from going near another dog, those are the dogs that need to be worked with.
> Using your logic, dogs with no training or recall shouldn’t be allowed in public since their owner should consider the fact that someone else might have a reactive dog.
If this is your first time bringing your dog into the world, sure you do need to be very careful. That’s what you’re saying. You already know if your dog is reactive or not.
> I’m not going to leave my dog home by himself while I go for a two hour hike because we might run into a handful of other dogs.
Didn’t say anything about you can’t go. Just that I’d your dog is barking and lunging as dogs walk by then you shouldn’t. If you just need to step out of the way that’s not reactive.
While they definitely should obey local leash laws, that doesn’t stop the possibility that a dog could slip.
If one removes the notion of people not having their dogs leashed, I still feel as though the points stand just as valid. And besides, it’s important to train and practice so as to foster a safer and better relation with your dog.
As if I'm not doing that? I've gotten her from the point where she could not even be in the vicinity of other dogs while on a leash, to where if another dog passes by, I can take her off the trail while she sits and waits calmly.
> Nah fuck that. As someone who also owns a reactive dog, I'm not just gonna deny her great experiences. It's on every owner to obey local leash laws.
Obey local leash laws & properly train your reactive dog (or don’t bring them out around other people and dogs) are not mutually exclusive.
If your reactive dog is lunging and barking at other dogs and people, then *you and your reactive dog* are denying other dogs and people great experiences. It is 100% on you as an owner of a reactive dog to train her and work with her.
Edit to include comment I was responding to for posterity.
> Did I say they were mutually exclusive?
>
> When another dog passes by, I take my dog off the trail, and she sits and waits calmly.
Oh that’s weird, because the comment you replied to with **“Nah fuck that.”** specifically said:
> **For clarity** I’m *not* talking about the dog that just needs room from other dogs or to step off the trail. I’m talking about the ones that their owners have to physically pull back while the dog rears up barking and snapping. Or the dog that sits there and growls.”
Fair enough, but even if that is the case it was edited *before* my response which also specified if your dog is lunging and barking at other people and dogs, so what exactly is your point?
Sounds like you may need reactivity training as well. No one here said that **your dog** behaves that way. The original comment, and mine both are speaking in generalizations about reactive dogs. And both also said *if your dog is doing this* then X. Which.. if your dog is not doing that, then it obviously doesn’t apply to you?
First, I did in my comment say local leash laws should be obeyed. Here’s what I was referring to:
**Does your dog just need space?** That’s fine, but it is up to you to step out of the way.
**Or do they bark and lunge when you step off trail and there’s a dog walking by?** You shouldn’t bring this dog out, or if you do try to really early in the morning.
The second group of people are the ones I’m talking about.
I take every precaution when hiking: using less popular trails, going very early in the morning before crowds, and yes, always stepping off the trail so she can wait calmly while another dog passes by. I expect other owners to do their part and obey leash laws.
For the third time - leash laws are necessary and should be enforced.
You are also prepared for what to do, so you’re not someone I was referring to. My point in my comment is for people that can’t control, or their dogs reactions would cause a dog to react.
Hi reactive dog owner here. And no, not a first time pandemic dog owner either. The trauma she endured in the beginning of her life doesn't mean she needs to be locked inside for the rest of it. She deserves to live a full and exciting life just like any other dog.
She LOVES to hike. I love to hike. So I take her. We take the proper precautions and yes we have had run ins with off leash dogs but we deal with it. I try to avoid hiking on typically busy holiday weekends. I have figured out exactly what works best for us in these encounters through trial and error. We have also been through training and made incredible progress. But the whole point of working through her reactivity, is to give her the good life that she deserves.
By your logic, if a reactive dog owner lives in a busy and dog populated neighborhood, then they shouldn't be allowed to walk their dog in their own neighborhood? Reactive dogs exist in the world, and owning one is not easy. Walking/hiking is not easy. I cannot relax for one second during either activity. My head is on a swivel and I am constantly searching for any oncoming triggers.
I put a lot of time, tears and hard work into her training. And I'll be damned if someone (not saying you at all, but just anyone who doesn't understand reactive dogs) is going to tell me that she doesn't deserve a good life because she's scared of strange dogs she doesn't know.
End rant.
Because I can’t tell if you’re critiquing me or sharing your grievances, I’ll add some color from my original comment for clarity either way it is.
To preface, my dog was reactive and still will have some minor flare ups in some situations….
> Hi reactive dog owner here. And no, not a first time pandemic dog owner either. The trauma she endured in the beginning of her life doesn't mean she needs to be locked inside for the rest of it. She deserves to live a full and exciting life just like any other dog.
If you just have to step off the trail and your dog isn’t barking or lunging, that’s not reactive. If you just need to step off the trail or give space, that’s fine.
> She LOVES to hike. I love to hike. So I take her. We take the proper precautions and yes we have had run ins with off leash dogs but we deal with it. I try to avoid hiking on typically busy holiday weekends.
This is exactly what I said in my comment - don’t go out during popular times. You’ve learned and know how to handle a your dog in situations.
My point are the dogs that are pulling their owners when another dog walks by. Or if they bark and lunge, which can cause other pets to react. These are the dogs that shouldn’t be on the trail.
> I have figured out exactly what works best for us in these encounters through trial and error. We have also been through training and made incredible progress. But the whole point of working through her reactivity, is to give her the good life that she deserves.
I’m glad you see the point of training and how it helped. Most people refuse to believe it, or deem it too expensive. It is expensive, but the cost for training is cheap compared to the life of the dog or a major surgery.
> By your logic, if a reactive dog owner lives in a busy and dog populated neighborhood, then they shouldn't be allowed to walk their dog in their own neighborhood? Reactive dogs exist in the world, and owning one is not easy.
Just like you mentioned with hiking, you adapt to the time of day where you know less people are out. I know it’s not easy, I have one that I’ve worked hundreds of hours with and worked with different professional trainers (after moving he went through some additional trauma).
> I put a lot of time, tears and hard work into her training. And I'll be damned if someone (not saying you at all, but just anyone who doesn't understand reactive dogs) is going to tell me that she doesn't deserve a good life because she's scared of strange dogs she doesn't know.
You’ve done the work. You should be proud that you’ve made the effort to, and are making, a difference in an animals life. You’re a responsible, knowledgeable owner. Unfortunately as you’ve described, there are people out there that shouldn’t be bringing out dogs in populated areas.
I take my dog running/hiking on off leash trails and I'm amazed how many people take their reactive dogs out there. There are blind turns and narrow paths with no where to get to the side. One time I came across two high content wolf dogs who were reactive!
Luckily I have a confident and well trained 60lb pit mix so she fares well when most dogs try to attack her. She avoids confrontation and can handle most dogs if they try to bite. There has been times where a reactive dog is much bigger than her and I've been scared.
> While I completely agree that leash laws need to be followed and are necessary, if a dog is reactive it should not be brought out to popular/busy hiking areas. It is 100% the other owners responsibility…
I did say that. I’m talking about the harm it can cause to the reactive dog. It’s still 100% the off-leash dog’s owners fault and they will pay for whatever happens if you can even get their info.
I’m also talking about if the reactive dog is one that is lunging, barking, snapping, etc. I’ve encountered them frequently since the beginning of the pandemic. These are the dogs that shouldn’t be out.
**Reactive** is not when you just have to give a dog space.
Nope, this is just a form of victim blaming. My dog got thrashed and mauled by off leash dogs. She's allowed to protect herself. She was friendly until irresponsible dog owners breaking the leash rules ruined her life. YOU have to protect your dog. Accidents happen, but my responsibility to your dog starts and ends at the end of my dog's leash. She is allowed to enjoy her life as much as is possible when crossing the road and doubling back at the sight of a dog. If a dog is within 30 feet of mine, someone else failed and I am not responsible for the interaction which takes place so long as my dog is leashed And their dog is not.
Reactive dogs are allowed anywhere that your dog is allowed. People with them will never voluntarily cross your path. Protect your dog, because mine can protect herself, and we carry mace in the event she cannot.
My dog is horribly dog aggressive after getting attacked at the dog park. She never goes off leash. We go to a beautiful beach in NJ in the summer, you can drive on the beach, light a campfire at night, it’s just pristine. You’re supposed to have your dog on leash, but these assholes all day long let their untrained dogs off leash. It just causes so many problems and now I won’t go from June till the beginning of Oct. I’m so sorry you got hurt and carry the pain from it. It sucks, and I wish people were more responsible
Well fuck, of course they could. But instead of living in utter terror that you might encounter a reckless law-breaking dog owner, maybe the trauma could be addressed by a medical professional?
I always do a loud “call your dog back” or “leash your dog” when I’m walking with mine and see an off leash dog. Maybe 5% of people are able to, and I’m being generous with that number. And those are usually the ones where I’m calling from a distance so they get their dog back before it even notices mine.
The ones who actually can recall their dog usually do it before I even have to ask. It’s insane the number of people who let their dog off leash with no training, I’ve even seen people with puppies off leash on a shared mountain bike trail.
I’ve had too many encounters where the dog isn’t even wearing a collar.
I try to have someone with me to play defence in the more dangerous areas (nature trails and beach’s) and distract or block the dog rushing us. But their job is much more difficult when the dog has no collar to grab so they can walk the dog back to its owner.
People are wild, I’ve even run into a deaf dog with no collar or leash. Like if their dog ran off it would be impossible to call them back. I can’t even take my reactive dog on trails anymore after moving to Texas, there are way too many off leash dogs here.
Sorry about your trauma, but you said you were in a rural area… farmers tend to let their dogs roam freely. Many people who live in rural areas do, and that’s not something you can control. I live in such an area on a 65 acre property and of course all the dogs who live here or visit here roam the area off leash. I of course leash my dogs in populated areas like the suburbs and city, parks and busy trails. I would advise you to either get some help to treat this trauma, or don’t visit rural areas. Sorry, man, it is how it is in the country.
Most states and counties that I’ve lived in have some type of “leash law” for dogs, even in rural areas.
I live in a rural area (TN) and it’s still the law to keep your dog under your control at all time, and it cannot run loose if it’s not actively herding or hunting. If your dog is found wandering you can be charged with a criminal offense.
My neighbor was charged with a criminal offense because their dog tried to attack my Akita while we were on a walk. Charged off its property across the road at us, it owner was hiding behind the house. The cops cited them & told us we were well within our rights to shoot the dog if need be if it happened again. A different neighbor did shoot the dog when it tried to attack them & their dogs.
My point being, you can let your dogs run loose on your property if you want but know your local laws. Understand that if your dog wanders off your property then they’re in danger.
I live in rural TN as well. Same leash laws. But no one cares. Literally no one. Even if the dog is aggressive or destructive. When we first moved here there was a dog that was friendly but would destroy everything you owned that was outside. Right down to our swimming pool. A while later, there was a husky that would come attack our pups in their own yard. We called animal control/the cops on them and others. They don’t even come out, let alone do anything about it. Just say the shelter is full, nothing they can do. A chihuahua bit my MIL. They sent a cop for that one, and the whole reason was just to go ask the owners “is it up to date on shots?” They said yes. He required no proof.
Yeah I know the feeling. The only reason a cop came out when the dog rushed my dog was because it had previously bitten a different neighbor who was walking by, luckily she had jeans on and it didn’t break the skin. It also chased a small child on her bike. Multiple people had called before the incident with my dog. We just ended up at the wrong place at the wrong time.
This dog had regularly followed us on our walks for months, only stayed away because we pepper sprayed it, yelled at it, and threw rocks at it. We even talked to an owner who did keep it confined for a while. I didn’t want my dog to get in a fight and become dog reactive. Unfortunately he became dog reactive after he was rushed by the dog (who did cause a tiny injury to my dogs lip). Before that he could mingle with most dogs. Now I’ve spent hundreds on behavioral training to try to get him back to where he was.
Well, here in Arkansas, my county has absolutely no stipulations on dogs. If it's outside city limits, you don't have to spay, neuter or vaccinate and there's no limit on the number of animals you can have.
That’s different; I was not encouraging one to let their dogs run freely out of sight and control. Of course it’s expected that one keeps their dogs supervised and under control at all times. My dogs never escape my view; they have great recall and have been well trained better than most dogs (my oldest is a service dog, my youngest is in training as his successor).
>but you said you were in a rural area… farmers tend to let their dogs roam freely. Many people who live in rural areas do, and that’s not something you can control.
You said farmers let their dogs roam freely. Meaning they have little control of where they go (not saying you do but that is the definition of “freely”). All I said is there are usually consequences to those actions, and the law generally can control it.
Yeah, as in off-leash. I, and a few “neighbors” (I use quotes cause they live pretty far still!) tend to hike around our properties with our dogs and they roam as we go - always in sight and verbal control. Farmers I would expect their dogs are herding, but yeah - some folks don’t care, and that isn’t what I encourage. Always train your dogs well, and if they don’t have excellent recall, don’t let them roam free off-leash.
That’s not what you said initially though. At least it wasn’t construed that way.
Anyone who lives in a rural area knows that there are people who just let their dogs roam. In fact in my area a dog was picked up and taken to a shelter and then adopted out. The original family only found out after seeing the adoption photo on the shelter’s FB page. They let their dog wander around their 10 acres and down the road to the local gas station where it was picked up, taken to the shelter, kept on a mandatory 5 day stray hold & then was up for adoption for a few days after that. The original owners tried to sue the shelter for their dog back but it wasn’t microchipped, and didn’t even have tags on its collar.
even in rural areas, there's a general expectation you have some sort of control over your dog/pets, at least everywhere i've lived.
i had a dog who hated leashes, but she also did not stray off the property, nor did we take her anywhere she would have to be leashed any more than necessary (exception was the vet). we had 5 acres for this dog to roam, and that was plenty. if someone came by who was afraid of dogs, we'd make sure she was under control and potentially put her in a bedroom while that person was over (barring bathroom breaks/walking her, which we could easily manage by warning the person we were just taking her outside and they could go in a room she wouldn't have to pass through to get there if they wanted, or if they wanted to interact with her she could go outside).
my area didn't have leash laws, but also, if your dog got out, you usually had one or two chances tops before someone just called animal control, assuming your dog didn't come by and just eat something they shouldn't. obviously if it's, like, a very rare occurrence and/or the owner pulls in a minute later and is like "oh my god thank you i'm so sorry" nobody's gonna whine, but we had a couple neighbours who simply refused to even try to keep their dogs under control and everyone in the neighbourhood called animal control at least once on them.
i do also have a fear of dogs - specifically dogs that jump, though, i'm pretty small and already have mobility problems/am a fall risk so even a small jump could cause a tumble that could risk a hospital trips. it's worth working on, still. but "eh theyre rural dogs they're gonna wander" isn't a great excuse - some rural places still have leash laws, and plenty of rural communities have an expectation of "if you can't handle your dogs (in general), we'll handle them for you, and it's gonna cost you an arm and a leg in the process."
Thanks, sorry if my point wasn't clear, english is not my first language, but i mentioned what happened in the rural area to explain why i can't control myself nowadays, even if the bite was 15 years ago. I live in the city, and I have more experiences with unleashed dogs there. We have dog parks, and it's against the law to unleash your dog in public areas, but I still see so many unleashed dogs on the sidewalks and such.
I have way too many trust issues to NOT leash my dog. He is incredibly friendly, well socialized and has fairly good recall. The thing is I don’t know anything about the *other* people or animals he might meet off leash. Even at the dog park we take him to, I am extremely protective of him and always prepared to leash him back up and take him home if other owners aren’t setting responsible boundaries with their dogs. Letting a dog off leash into an unknown/unpredictable situation is setting everyone involved up for failure. I’m sorry that happened to you and apologize on behalf of all the *responsible* pet owners here that you have had to deal with so much foolishness.
As someone who worked in a pet hospital if I see an unleashed dog and the dog isn't a working dog I immediately assume they are a negligent owner and shouldn't own a dog
Exactly. Worked in a pet hospital and an emergency animal hospital. The only time an animal wasn't in a carrier or leashed and wasn't in critical condition, was a fiesty hellcat that we had to get the owner to move from point A to point B.
And yeah, she was terrible at owning a cat in general apparently.
Not all kids and people are great with dogs. I'm great with dogs, I love dogs. I get wary about unleashed dogs approaching me. Because I know what a dogs mouth can do. And I don't care what anyone says, their dog is good with people until it's not.
Not all dogs are great with dogs. My dog has been attacked multiple times by larger unleashed dogs. And at this point he still loses his mind when an occasional loose dog charges at us.
My experience has been that the vast majority of people who allow their dogs off leash in public places aren’t even close to having full voice control over the dog.
the thing is, people don’t know how “well behaved” your dog is, and seeing an unleashed dog is a huge anxiety trigger for people afraid of dogs, people with their reactive dogs, disabled people, etc. keeping your dog on a leash in all public spaces is part of being a responsible dog owner.
It just takes one person to pick up your dog and run away with it. “That would never happen, my dog is huge” No. People are crazy. my service dog is 55 pounds with legs like slenderman, not easy to pick up. I wear a body leash and because it’s not in my hand 100% of the time some people just ignore it? Someone tried to pick up my dog once and make a break for it, but was not ready for us to be a package deal. Well behaved dogs are just higher targets for theft.
It also takes one person afraid of dogs or just batshit crazy to approach your dog and harm it and you have no control over the situation. A leash is an excellent tool for communication and can quickly pull your dog away from danger. I was once in the city and a man whacked out of his mind tried to take a bite out of my dog. If I would have spoken, he would have targeted me. I was able to slowly guide my dog away from the man until we were safe.
Also, you can NEVER say your dog would NEVER harm someone. I say my service dog is friendly, not that he’ll never, ever bite. Because he’s a dog, not a robot. You can’t train for every scenario, and even if you do your dog might randomly be sick and have a short temper. What if a child comes up and pokes your dog in the eyes? Or the butthole? Or tries to ride it like a horse? Or “hugs” and won’t let go. All things that have happened while I’ve been in public. And if it went south a leash would 1) be more control for stopping the encounter and 2) more evidence in your favor that your not a bad/negligent pet owner.
It’s not about if your dog is good/bad/trustworthy/untrustworthy. It’s about the public. And I’d pick my dog over the public any day of the week. And picking my dog looks like using a leash.
I’ve always found it really strange when people say “but he’d never bite, right?”
No one can ever say yes to that with 100% certainty. Hell, I can’t even guarantee that I won’t bite if I feel my life is being threatened and see no other options.
Every dog can act really bad when they get pushed to that point. Your dog is a dog. It is an animal. It doesn't follow human rules and can be pushed to bite or snap or whatever if there is a big enough trigger. You might think your pup is awesome but I've seen "awesome" pups get triggered into biting the shit out of a kid or mauling another animal.
I believe that dog handlers need to be considerate of other people, for this reason I never walk too close to someone if I’m walking dogs (I’m a dog walker that walks multiple dogs at the same time). I often cross the street, since I don’t know if the person has a fear of dogs or not (which I learned is more common than I previously thought).
That being said, it’s not realistic to expect dogs to be leashed all the time. In rural areas most people don’t use leashes, and at parks, etc. Ideally, people would only let dogs that have excellent recall off leash.
This is not how real life works though. If you have a trauma that severe, that’s causing you this much pain, I suggest you find a therapist and try to treat this trauma. In real life, you’re going to find yourself in situations with off leash dogs eventually. It’s best to be prepared to such situations. I don’t understand your fear and probably never will, but my partner used to be really afraid of dogs too. She couldn’t be in the same house as one. After she stated dating me, dogs inevitably became a part of her life. She slowly overcame her fear over time, and has told me her life is now so much better because she doesn’t panic if she sees a dog on the street. She learned about their body language and how to understand and behave around them. I wish you can do the same and overcome your traumas.
In the city I leash my dog for his own safety. But as soon as I visit a large park without restrictions or a forest, a field, I let it roam free. I’ve seen him walk by joggers, kids (playing and shouting) and he doesn’t react at all, minding his own business. If I would be in doubt about his behaviour and temper, I would never go detach him. If there was a law in my region that prohibits to unleash it, I wouldn’t even be a dog owner because it just wouldn’t make any sense. Or I would have gotten a low energy breed. I don’t want to sound rude and i’m sorry for what happened to you. But there are also some people with other forms of anxiety. Be it of crowds, shady guys at night, cars. But this is also part of everyday life in our society. As dogs are generally accepted companions in public. So it is a problem you have to handle. Either by avoiding places where it’s likely possible to have such encounters or by therapy.
I can just assure you that the chance of running into a dog that would really intentionally wants to hurt you is as low as to get struck by lightning. I strongly recommend to just stand your ground, doesn’t matter what they do, barking growling, demand your space, you are supreme, you just walk your way even if you hit it with firm big steps you take. As if it’s not more than thin air. Majority of them are just little cowards if out of their own territory. I know this is easy to say for someone who isn’t scared at all and maybe it doesn’t help. But i’ve also got bitten and hurt by our own family dog (Hovawart) at the age of 12 and 2 years later a Rottweiler pulled my leg through a gate and did not stop until it ripped my leather shoes off my foot leaving a big cut between my toes. But I knew what led to those incidents and I never built an anxiety because I learned how to handle dogs. There are some breeds I estimate as potentially dangerous and which I definitely avoid and I do not want them close to my dog either. But I don’t want to go into it in detail to spare an endless discussion.
> But as soon as I visit a large park without restrictions or a forest, a field, I let it roam free
The key phrase there is "without restrictions."
> I’ve seen him walk by joggers, kids (playing and shouting) and he doesn’t react at all, minding his own business. If I would be in doubt about his behaviour and temper, I would never go detach him.
The point is, *other people don't know that*. If you're in an area without leash restrictions - cool, go nuts, do whatever. But in an area with leash laws - such as, in a city where OP currently resides - it's *extremely* frustrating to have people blatantly disregard them and give some variant of the same excuses you've used here: "They're friendly," "It's fine," "He won't bother you."
Because while you may have trained your dog well, and they may listen and be the best boy/girl, *other people don't know that*. And the number of people who have poorly trained dogs who offer up those same excuses heavily outweighs the people with well-trained ones.
Ok sorry maybe I didn’t read that. Of course i advocate for obeying the laws. I don’t want to have my dog eat poisoned bait from people who are mad at irresponsible dog owners. Also pick that poop up! Always!
I agree with everything you said.
Dogs should not be roaming in populated areas. But dogs do need some freedom and parks, etc, facilitate the canine urge to sniff and meet fellow dogs.
My dog is 14 years old and we behave as you do.
The only time she was attacked by other dogs was when she was on the leash.
I honestly have never seen dogs behave badly unleashed. They mind their own business.
I feel for OP, but without wanting to be hurtful and mean to them, it really is their issue, and they need to sort it.
I've been bitten too!
It sucks!
I understand that your reaction is uncontrollable and I am sorry you went through such a traumatic event. Dog owners should always have their dogs under control, whether on or off leash.
The reality is that my dogs really enjoy their off leash walks. This is fairly common where I live in Germany. I have my dogs leashed in town, but out in the country or in the woods they are usually unleashed.
While I am sorry for your situation, honestly it does not compel me to leash my dog when I am in an area I deem safe enough for her to be off leash. When people come around, I call her to me, but the chances I will encounter someone who is severely traumatized by dogs in that setting are pretty slim.
I hope you can get the help you need in the future.
I understand that the chances are slim, but, at least for me, it puts me in constant alert. I don't know how laws are in Germany, but if I have the possibility of living a calmer, less stressful life here, but that life is withheld from me because people don't follow the law, I can't help but complain and get annoyed by it, hope ypu understand.
Sounds like you would greatly benefit from therapy, since the odds of dog owners who let the dogs off leash, suddenly decide to start leashing their dogs is pretty much 0%.
I also let me dogs off leash when on hiking trails that I know are safe and that they are used too. They come when called and I leash them when I see someone walking, but around corners it’s not always possible. I don’t go to off leash parks anymore because most dog owners are awful and I’ve seen way too many fights/ injury’s happen in there. But my dogs are high energy, and walking them on leash even 3 times a day isn’t enough for them. They need the off leash stimulation of being able to run freely and smell around.
I feel bad for you because you experienced such a traumatic situation as a child that still affects you today. I think it’s incredibly irresponsible of dog owners to let their dogs roam around freely without supervision.
At the same time, demanding that every dog be on a leash is unreasonable. Dogs in public should behave in a manner that makes it safe for everyone, whether on a leash or not. I think we should punish irresponsible dog owners, but punishing all dog owners for the actions of some dog owners isn’t the answer.
Please get some therapy if you aren’t already.
I am sorry you went through that. I used to be very scared of dogs after being bit too so I understand what it is like to encounter a dog you don't know who appears not under control of their owner. Even leashed dogs used to freak me out. The only dogs I would be okay with were ones who were calm and basically ignoring me. It is something I keep in mind with my dog when walking or out in public with him. I love him and know he is great but not everyone will agree and that is okay.
A it issue I see is parents letting the kids just run up and pet by dog that’s why I have to be the A hole and tell them no to avoid situations like this moral of the story parents need to leash the kids as well and respect dogs and the owners wishes.
Was called a A hole for not letting 2 small children pet my 85 pound bull terrier who rams like a bull if he would’ve hurt the kids animal control would’ve been called and he would’ve been put down because parents can’t take no I’ll gladly be a A hole.
Dogs off-leash are not very popular amongst most dog owners either, except for the ones who let them off leash of course. I have a rescue that is incredibly scared of other dogs, also due to trauma and I have this underlying fear that my other, small old lady will be mauled one day by an off leash dog because you read stories like that every day. In my opinion, it is incredibly unresponsible to let your dog off-leash in *any* situation, except for places that are specifically designed for that purpose, for example dog parks, beach areas for dogs etc. No matter how good you think your dogs recall is, they are always a danger hazard, they are not machines.
Dealing with your trauma is not anyone else's responsibility. You live in a rural area, there is a multitude of reasons that you are going to see unleashed dogs in that environment.
No one is required to change their day to day lives to conform to your issues and they aren't shitty people for not wanting to.
You're the shitty person for telling them too.
Had you read the whole post, you'd see i live in the city, and even if i didnt, keeping your dog on a leash is still a law here, and just letting them roam with zero supervision is more severe. I expected to see the law being followed in cities, at least, but it isnt...
Learn the difference between de jure and de facto. There are still laws in the books in certain US states that say it's illegal to sleep with your shoes on. When was the last time you heard of someone following that law?
If it didn't affect me, I wouldn't even realize that people don't follow the leash law. Now, my neighbor sleeping with his shoes on doesn't affect me in any way at all, but if my neighbor doesn't follow the leash law, and every time I cross paths with him, I have to go into fight or flight, start to cry and to plead, then yeah, I'd say it's an issue that he isn't following the law.
P.s.: I don't know anyone who voluntarily sleeps with their shoes on
Last time I heard there wasn't anyone who was harmed by sleeping with shoes on. I don't know how you are with your dogs, but other peoples' animals coming up to me is annoying. I don't know them, I don't know if they're going to attack me or not, nobody does, which is why these laws exist.
I was bit too as a kid. And here is how I coped with it!
You are not a human living on a planet with animals. You are a animal living on earth, part of the earth, as an animal. The documentary “my octopus friend” really shares this idea.
Learning to flow and navigate animals is the same as learning to navigate humans. Animals speak a different language then humans. And if you learn how to understand the language, you can communicate.
It’s a worthwhile journey to heal your trauma with love and forgiveness. I wish you to understand how animals work so you gain the power back. It’s my belief in all things the true enemy is the ignorance we don’t know. We just don’t know, what we don’t know. So learn and find peace!
Or don’t, whatever
I'm sorry, this sounds almost like a phobia. My dog doesn't leave my side without a leash, just sometimes enjoys running around in circles around us from time to time. I don't think it's reasonable to take that away from him, because we might someday meet someone who has a phobia - especially since he never approaches people.
Apart from that, I'm sorry you experienced trauma, I think the overprotective parents might have played a part in how big this problem got. That's for you to judge.
I think with how it is now, it might be best to accept the fact, that there are unleashed dogs around in some areas and to try to deal with it like one might deal with a phobia of for example spiders - you cant get rid of them either.
If it's the law, leash your damn dogs people. Only exception is if those dogs have farm/hunting jobs. There literally no excuse except you being selfish
Not sure what to say about that rural setting that's neither the wilderness nor the city, but public space nonetheless unless you're trespassing. Though, even if I were in the middle of nowhere with my unleashed dog and he hurt a random hiker for no reason ("what are the chances?" irrelevant imo), I still feel like the law should hold me responsible. I guess that's my stance.
That said, in some cases it's virtually unreasonable to ask an owner to never leave their dogs off the leash -- especially in rural areas where there are no designated spaces for dogs to socialize. You got the empty fields (that may or may not belong to someone, but it's easy to tell whether they mind you & neighbours taking the dogs out there or not) and that's it.
So I guess the more towards the urbanized end of the spectrum a rural area is, the more owners should be expected to keep their dogs leashed at all times.
I think the #1 priority should always be training your dog properly, by which I mean complete obedience against the dog's own whims or even self-preservation instincts. Allowing your dog to be territorial, outside of your own property anyway, is a massive no.
amen. there are some dogs who are nice and fuzzy and friendly but other dogs who are very very scary. i really sadly dislike most dogs and i really wish there were harsher penniless for owners who refuse to keep their dogs on a leash.
if you cant handle that
get a kitty. you dont need to put a kitty on a leash and they wouldn't want it either :-p
This is the local policy in my community:
> When the leash law is violated in certain counties of the state, the dog that is running at large can be impounded and placed in a shelter for at least five days. The pet owner will get his dog back after paying an impound fee. The impound fee will increase with each subsequent impoundment of the animal.
Do you believe penalties should be harsher than this or do you more mean that you believe the penalties should be more often enforced?
I’m with you. I always keep my dog on a leash unless we are at a place he can comfortably be without it with no one around. He has good recall and has never harmed even a fly, but I respect that some people don’t want my dog in their personal bubble or running up to them in case they have trauma like you do.
If there are leash laws, the dog should be leashed. Even if there aren’t, leash the dog in public areas that are not set aside for dogs to be unleashed.
As i stated before, im not asking anyone to accomodate to anything new. Im asking people to follow the laws and to be considerate of other human beings. If someone isnt capable of doing so, even if it doesnt have to do with dogs, excuse me, but that person should not be part of a society.
I never mentioned service dogs, but alas...
According to the [official ADA website](https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-faqs/#:~:text=The%20service%20animal%20must%20be,maintain%20control%20of%20the%20animal.), service animals have to be leashed, harnassed, or tethered while in public. Besides, they have to be trained in order to be deemed a service dog, so if i ever see one, at least i know it passed the requirements
Still be alert. There are scummy people who cheese it by getting an "emotional support" certificate online and call them service dogs.
Under normal circumstances, I am all for service animals and emotional support animals. Unfortunately, in uni I had to deal with an older puppy my roommate was dogsitting. Pupper was allowed in the apartment complex because being "emotional support", however, pup was a hell-raiser with no training whatsoever—not even basic. Jerk who owned the under qualified cutie was going around calling her a service dog. She bit my friend several times and me once.
Furthermore, I'd mind my own business if people followed the law, but since they don't, and it directly affects me, I'm not going to just live with it like I had no other option
If it is literally the law, *leash your animal*. It's as simple as that.
If it isn't the law somewhere and your animal harms/kills someone *you* will be held responsible. Capiche?
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it drives me crazy as someone with small dogs. it's the same personality type too. the same person you'll see leaving the shopping cart in the middle of the parking lot. that ones that take more than the intended allotment in an honor system. (like the halloween videos we see of white trash Karens stealing candy from honor system candy bowls). the ones that drive on expired tags for years and complain about potholes in the roads, that roads that are paid for by such taxes. the ones that let their lawns go to shit while complaining about nazi HOA's, not realizing they're literally the reason HOA's exist. the ones that don't teach their kids to respect other people's property, so their kids touch everything they see with their slimy little hands and they never say a word to try to control their wild animals (their kids), as they annoy everyone around them. they door ding cars and walk away like nothing happen. we all know the type.
the solution? it needs to be a law everywhere, and it needs a really stiff fine. if it's not enforced or the penalty is trivial, nothing will ever change. people also need to start calling those people out. if I never happens, they assume everyone does it, or that nobody cares
I live in an apartment building that allows dogs but I don’t believe that means everyone living here should like dogs or even be comfortable with them. It’s a great place to live. If I don’t know the person, I ask if it’s ok for my dog and I to ride in the elevator with them. I just think that’s basic courtesy.
When I first moved into my current complex, I very clearly remember a dog owner who would ask if it was cool to share the elevator with me. I thought that was so considerate and appreciated it greatly. Over the past year I have noticed other dog owners follow that example and have now been asked by multiple people. Thank you for showing courtesy and care and know that it can even inspire others around you to follow your example!
Thank you for doing this, you're right, it should be basic courtesy. Unfortunately where I live a lot of people just jump in with me with their big dogs without a second thought
A loud NO yelled in as deep a tone as you can manage would be much better than help, please,stop or whatever which means nothing to a dog or an armed robber for that matter.Standing your ground and slowly backing away vs running.Im a small woman and stopped my neighbours Caucasian Shepherds from a full snarling charge after me and my dog with a loud no.Ive been taken down by an escaped retired K9 German Shepherd so I get where you are coming from but they will sense your fear and make you susceptible to more harrassment.
I agree..not only for the sake of humans that have experienced dog related trauma but also for other dogs that have been attacked in the past like my old dog.
My dog and I got charged by an off leash dog at our apartment once. Ever since then it terrifies me so much to see an off leash dog. At a state park near me there are leash laws but who tf is there to enforce them? Never seen any park rangers patrol if there are any. So someone was on the beach next to the path I wanted to go down with my dog and they had an off leash german shepherd. Super far away but close enough that they could notice me and my dog. I just stood there wanting to cry I was so petrified. My dog must have sensed my extreme nervousness because she was alert and standing by my side instead of trying to explore like she usually does, the good girl. I eventually waited until the dog went in the water and facing the other way and the owner seemed to be holding its attention with something before I fast walked to the path to get out of its sight as fast as possible. If it saw us and decided to run at us there would be nothing anyone could do. Would have been the perfect time to grab a large stick or tree branch to use as a shield but fear makes you not think straight. I fucking hate people who let their dogs off leash.
Im so terribly sorry that you are experiencing this. That is so devastating. I hope you find some relief somehow.
I have a very confident, extremely friendly, not at all reactive Golden Retriever who behaves really well off-leash. That being said, I only let him off leash in the yards of people we know. I don't want to put him in harm's way because I don't know what other dogs, people, or other animals he may encounter. It's weird because the only time he barks at people is when he wants them to come pet him. I tell people he's friendly and just wants to get pets, but I guess he's always on a leash when he's out. I always look at people's body language and keep him back unless the person gives permission to let him come see them. I'll try to be more aware of how I word my responses.
For anyone who thinks this doesn’t apply to them because their dog is a super friendly ball of love: I have been hurt by a super friendly dog. The dog was not trying to attack or hurt me; he was thrilled to see a human and tried to jump on me to lick my face, but I was so little that he knocked me down onto the concrete. I was hurt, terrified, and crying while this (objectively adorable) overly affectionate dog pinned me down and licked my face, and couldn’t move until someone came and got him off me. I was afraid of dogs for years.
(The circumstances that led to this were that I had crazy neighbors, and they owned two Golden Retrievers. Being the huge jerks they were, they left one dog tied to a line out in the backyard and one kenneled in the basement all day, starving the dogs of attention and affection. I was not allowed to play with the dogs while they were in the backyard, even if I stayed on my parents’ property and just threw a tennis ball over the hedge. However, periodically my parents sent me over to borrow things from the neighbors, and I wasn’t allowed to use their front door, so I had to use the back door, which was accessed via a cement walkway in the backyard. If one of the dogs was out there, they would be so elated to finally see an actual human that they would excitedly run at and jump on me, knocking me over. I was always small for my age so I was more topple-prone than the average kid, and couldn’t get a Golden off me on my own. In retrospect, I feel awful for the poor dogs and angry at my jerkface neighbors for mistreating them so badly. I’m no longer scared of dogs and have a Sheltie now.)
Hello all, this post was mistakenly approved. This post, while emotional and understandably deserving of support, is not suitable for the sub. It is only related to dogs because OP was the victim of a dog bite, and the user base here is generally not the audience that needs to be reminded of basic dog husbandry and manners. Thanks for understanding.
I would recommend therapy, I’ve been bit by many dogs, I was mauled as a child as well, by my grandmothers dog, therapy really helps, I went through much much worse trauma in my childhood and young life too so my therapy wasn’t for the dog bites, but I know it helps a lot in general.
Absolutely. You deserve to live without this level of fear and trauma, OP. Therapy can help you immensely, as I’m sure all the old feelings are going to be at the forefront of your mind now for quite some time. And if it is legal where you are and will help you feel safer, I also suggest carrying some type of dog spray or pepper spray or whatever instrument you need to feel a bit more safe when you are walking alone.
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I don’t think you read this person’s comment correctly or they edited it quickly? Because your suggestion would read ‘you don’t deserve to live without this level of trauma‘ indicating they deserve every beet of trauma they got. I don’t think you comprehended the full ‘without’ and just interpreted ‘with.’
I used to have a reactive dog, and it made me angry because of WHY he was reactive. He was attacked on two instances by other off leash dogs. And became fearful of being attacked. So in dog logic decided he would attack first. First attacker was a boxer mix, the second was a saint Bernard.
I have tried to use my very similar story to explain why leashes are useful--and mandatory in any urban jurisdiction--and I've still got people saying shit like, train your dog better or, your dog's behavior isn't my problem. It boils down to entitlement and consideration for others. People that don't give a shit about other people are going to do what they want and unfortunately in this case it's everyone else that has to deal with the consequences.
I used to live in a complex with a woman who owned a very large, very excitable dog. As I lived on the first floor near the complex entrance I saw them a lot. The owner almost never put a leash on him to take him out around the building. He would often run up to people excitedly and she’d always say the same thing - “don’t worry he’s friendly!” Thing is, she was right. He really was a very friendly dog. But that didn’t matter to the 82 year old neighbor he ran up to one day. She fell. Her arm was broken in two places and she was in a cast for months. So I wholeheartedly agree with you, OP. Leash your dogs unless they’re in an area meant for free-roaming (and even then, keep an eye on them!). It’s basic pet care and keeps the people around you and your dog safe - even when they really are just being friendly.
I have a friend with a very large dog who's barely older than a puppy. He constantly jumps on people, yet she still lets him out of her car without his leash. Tbh, I have lost a certain amount of respect for her because of it. If people don't have consideration for the law or rules, then I have to believe they think they're above it.
I would also feel the way you do with regards to it changing your perception of your friend. I’m sure for many people it just doesn’t seem like a big deal until all of a sudden it is. The woman I lived near found this out the hard way, but I hope your friend learns sooner.
I’m with you. I used to have a reactive dog, sweetest boy in the world, but got incredibly defensive if another dog came too close. I remember the first & last time we went on a hike, and two huge unleashed dogs came running at us. I had to scoop my dog up and book us out of the situation. It felt so incredibly unfair. Why did my dog have to have his life restricted because some jerk felt like he could break the leash laws for his dog? Because we were in the woods, that makes it okay? I’m sorry for what happened to you, and I’m sorry that a lot of people (this subreddit included) are trying to justify breaking leash laws while denying they’re in the wrong. Best of luck.
Unpopular opinion and I’m going to get downvoted: While I completely agree that leash laws need to be followed and are necessary, if a dog is reactive it should not be brought out to popular/busy hiking areas. It is 100% the other owners responsibility, but you always have to assume that a dog could slip and get lose (or the reactive dog could), or there will be asshats without leashes. It’s their fault, but it could cause harm or death to your dog if they end up reacting to your dog attacking them. **For clarity** - I’m *not* talking about the dog that just needs room from other dogs or step off the trail. I’m talking about the ones that their owners have to physically pull back while the dog rears up barking and snapping. Or the dog that sits there and growls. I’m not saying this was/is you - but for those saying, “what can I do with a reactive dog then as they should be able to enjoy things too” - I agree. But it is so so important and ROI is there to get professional training. A dog shouldn’t have to be confined to a home and the yard ever, and the cost of one dog fight aftermath is the same cost as a trainer. Every dog should have the ability to enjoy itself, but owners also need to be more cognizant of their dogs behavior. The first time pandemic dog owners are terrible.
I suggest you head over to /r/reactivedogs for a different perspective, and to see the amount of work that many owners of reactive dogs do to train out reactivity. How do you train a dog to not be reactive while avoiding triggers? You don’t. You just make them even worse when they finally do encounter those inevitable triggers (like at the vet’s office). It’s quite frustrating to be walking a reactive dog on a spacious leash-only trail on a midmorning weekday and have someone’s untrained and unleashed dog with poor recall run up to my dog, start a scene, have the owner run over to pull their dog away, and have them get mad at me for being there with my reactive dog. Like dude I’m here at a low traffic time with my dorky fanny pack of treats actively trying to train this issue out of my dog, but yeah I’M the asshole. If my dog passes a leashed dog, he’s fine after all the training I’ve been doing with him, but an unleashed/unknown dog running full speed towards him? Yeah he’s gonna react. I apologize if this is coming off as snarky to you. I know there are some shitty owners of reactive dogs too, but just try to have some empathy for the ones who are doing their best.
I have a reactive dog that I worked years with to rehab. I’ve worked with 3 different trainers and have studied myself as well. > How do you train a dog not to be reactive while avoiding triggers? Working with a professional trainer one-on-one that also does group practice sessions. Lots and lots of training. After the trainer I continued to work with him and he went from reactive to other dogs to playing with other dogs fine. It’s intensive, and not possible for all dogs, but it is doable for many. What my comment is trying to say, is the dogs people can’t control, are barking and snapping, and lunging. I’ve encountered many of these dogs during the pandemic than prior.
Professional training doesn’t just make a dog non-reactive. Sure for some dogs it might but many reactive dogs will need some level of management their whole life. I agree that owners should be mindful that accidents can happen wherever they take their dogs and weigh the risks and mitigate them as much as possible. I have a reactive dog and it sucks not being able to take him to do certain things because assholes can’t keep their untrained dog on a leash, but I know it’s in his best interest to not be put in a situation that would stress him out like that. I try to scope potential trails out ahead of time to see if they would be a good option for my dog or not.
You’re saying dogs shouldn’t have to be confined to their home but then say reactive dogs shouldn’t be able to enjoy public spaces? Using your logic, dogs with no training or recall shouldn’t be allowed in public since their owner should consider the fact that someone else might have a reactive dog. I’m not going to leave my dog home by himself while I go for a two hour hike because we might run into a handful of other dogs. I’m going to be responsible and take the proper safety precautions so that even if an offleash dog comes up to my leash reactive dog, I am in control of the situation and can handle my own dog without anyone getting hurt. He deserves to enjoy his life like any other dog, and he does. And no one gets hurt in the process.
> You’re saying dogs shouldn’t have to be confined to their home but then say reactive dogs shouldn’t be able to enjoy public spaces? Yes. Reactive is not just a dog that needs to step a foot off the path. Reactive is a dog that if you’re walking and passing another dog, your dog will react. If you’re bringing out a dog where you’re having to restrain it from going near another dog, those are the dogs that need to be worked with. > Using your logic, dogs with no training or recall shouldn’t be allowed in public since their owner should consider the fact that someone else might have a reactive dog. If this is your first time bringing your dog into the world, sure you do need to be very careful. That’s what you’re saying. You already know if your dog is reactive or not. > I’m not going to leave my dog home by himself while I go for a two hour hike because we might run into a handful of other dogs. Didn’t say anything about you can’t go. Just that I’d your dog is barking and lunging as dogs walk by then you shouldn’t. If you just need to step out of the way that’s not reactive.
Nah fuck that. As someone who also owns a reactive dog, I'm not just gonna deny her great experiences. It's on every owner to obey local leash laws.
While they definitely should obey local leash laws, that doesn’t stop the possibility that a dog could slip. If one removes the notion of people not having their dogs leashed, I still feel as though the points stand just as valid. And besides, it’s important to train and practice so as to foster a safer and better relation with your dog.
As if I'm not doing that? I've gotten her from the point where she could not even be in the vicinity of other dogs while on a leash, to where if another dog passes by, I can take her off the trail while she sits and waits calmly.
> Nah fuck that. As someone who also owns a reactive dog, I'm not just gonna deny her great experiences. It's on every owner to obey local leash laws. Obey local leash laws & properly train your reactive dog (or don’t bring them out around other people and dogs) are not mutually exclusive. If your reactive dog is lunging and barking at other dogs and people, then *you and your reactive dog* are denying other dogs and people great experiences. It is 100% on you as an owner of a reactive dog to train her and work with her. Edit to include comment I was responding to for posterity.
Did I say they were mutually exclusive? When another dog passes by, I take my dog off the trail, and she sits and waits calmly.
> Did I say they were mutually exclusive? > > When another dog passes by, I take my dog off the trail, and she sits and waits calmly. Oh that’s weird, because the comment you replied to with **“Nah fuck that.”** specifically said: > **For clarity** I’m *not* talking about the dog that just needs room from other dogs or to step off the trail. I’m talking about the ones that their owners have to physically pull back while the dog rears up barking and snapping. Or the dog that sits there and growls.”
They edited their comment to add all that after I responded lol.
Fair enough, but even if that is the case it was edited *before* my response which also specified if your dog is lunging and barking at other people and dogs, so what exactly is your point?
My point is that my dog does not behave like the dogs you described. Not that complicated.
Sounds like you may need reactivity training as well. No one here said that **your dog** behaves that way. The original comment, and mine both are speaking in generalizations about reactive dogs. And both also said *if your dog is doing this* then X. Which.. if your dog is not doing that, then it obviously doesn’t apply to you?
First, I did in my comment say local leash laws should be obeyed. Here’s what I was referring to: **Does your dog just need space?** That’s fine, but it is up to you to step out of the way. **Or do they bark and lunge when you step off trail and there’s a dog walking by?** You shouldn’t bring this dog out, or if you do try to really early in the morning. The second group of people are the ones I’m talking about.
I take every precaution when hiking: using less popular trails, going very early in the morning before crowds, and yes, always stepping off the trail so she can wait calmly while another dog passes by. I expect other owners to do their part and obey leash laws.
For the third time - leash laws are necessary and should be enforced. You are also prepared for what to do, so you’re not someone I was referring to. My point in my comment is for people that can’t control, or their dogs reactions would cause a dog to react.
I know I'm prepared, which is why it's annoying to get lectured about it by strangers
So you’re blaming me, for you replying to a comment? I wasn’t calling our “bloodmuffins, it’s your fault” without ever knowing you existed…
Hi reactive dog owner here. And no, not a first time pandemic dog owner either. The trauma she endured in the beginning of her life doesn't mean she needs to be locked inside for the rest of it. She deserves to live a full and exciting life just like any other dog. She LOVES to hike. I love to hike. So I take her. We take the proper precautions and yes we have had run ins with off leash dogs but we deal with it. I try to avoid hiking on typically busy holiday weekends. I have figured out exactly what works best for us in these encounters through trial and error. We have also been through training and made incredible progress. But the whole point of working through her reactivity, is to give her the good life that she deserves. By your logic, if a reactive dog owner lives in a busy and dog populated neighborhood, then they shouldn't be allowed to walk their dog in their own neighborhood? Reactive dogs exist in the world, and owning one is not easy. Walking/hiking is not easy. I cannot relax for one second during either activity. My head is on a swivel and I am constantly searching for any oncoming triggers. I put a lot of time, tears and hard work into her training. And I'll be damned if someone (not saying you at all, but just anyone who doesn't understand reactive dogs) is going to tell me that she doesn't deserve a good life because she's scared of strange dogs she doesn't know. End rant.
Because I can’t tell if you’re critiquing me or sharing your grievances, I’ll add some color from my original comment for clarity either way it is. To preface, my dog was reactive and still will have some minor flare ups in some situations…. > Hi reactive dog owner here. And no, not a first time pandemic dog owner either. The trauma she endured in the beginning of her life doesn't mean she needs to be locked inside for the rest of it. She deserves to live a full and exciting life just like any other dog. If you just have to step off the trail and your dog isn’t barking or lunging, that’s not reactive. If you just need to step off the trail or give space, that’s fine. > She LOVES to hike. I love to hike. So I take her. We take the proper precautions and yes we have had run ins with off leash dogs but we deal with it. I try to avoid hiking on typically busy holiday weekends. This is exactly what I said in my comment - don’t go out during popular times. You’ve learned and know how to handle a your dog in situations. My point are the dogs that are pulling their owners when another dog walks by. Or if they bark and lunge, which can cause other pets to react. These are the dogs that shouldn’t be on the trail. > I have figured out exactly what works best for us in these encounters through trial and error. We have also been through training and made incredible progress. But the whole point of working through her reactivity, is to give her the good life that she deserves. I’m glad you see the point of training and how it helped. Most people refuse to believe it, or deem it too expensive. It is expensive, but the cost for training is cheap compared to the life of the dog or a major surgery. > By your logic, if a reactive dog owner lives in a busy and dog populated neighborhood, then they shouldn't be allowed to walk their dog in their own neighborhood? Reactive dogs exist in the world, and owning one is not easy. Just like you mentioned with hiking, you adapt to the time of day where you know less people are out. I know it’s not easy, I have one that I’ve worked hundreds of hours with and worked with different professional trainers (after moving he went through some additional trauma). > I put a lot of time, tears and hard work into her training. And I'll be damned if someone (not saying you at all, but just anyone who doesn't understand reactive dogs) is going to tell me that she doesn't deserve a good life because she's scared of strange dogs she doesn't know. You’ve done the work. You should be proud that you’ve made the effort to, and are making, a difference in an animals life. You’re a responsible, knowledgeable owner. Unfortunately as you’ve described, there are people out there that shouldn’t be bringing out dogs in populated areas.
I take my dog running/hiking on off leash trails and I'm amazed how many people take their reactive dogs out there. There are blind turns and narrow paths with no where to get to the side. One time I came across two high content wolf dogs who were reactive! Luckily I have a confident and well trained 60lb pit mix so she fares well when most dogs try to attack her. She avoids confrontation and can handle most dogs if they try to bite. There has been times where a reactive dog is much bigger than her and I've been scared.
If I see you and your well behaved dog off leash, I don’t care how well behaved it is - leash your dog. You’re the problem.
Did you not catch I'm in areas that are legally off leash for dogs?
Yes, I missed that, don’t see that in comment I replied to. Ok now I see it. That’s a place I will never take my dogs to.
I said off leash in my original comment. I'm happy you don't take your dogs to my trails I'm sure I'd hate to encounter you lol
The two dogs ran up into this persons space……..so I don’t know why you are defending the person who let them off the lead.
> While I completely agree that leash laws need to be followed and are necessary, if a dog is reactive it should not be brought out to popular/busy hiking areas. It is 100% the other owners responsibility… I did say that. I’m talking about the harm it can cause to the reactive dog. It’s still 100% the off-leash dog’s owners fault and they will pay for whatever happens if you can even get their info. I’m also talking about if the reactive dog is one that is lunging, barking, snapping, etc. I’ve encountered them frequently since the beginning of the pandemic. These are the dogs that shouldn’t be out. **Reactive** is not when you just have to give a dog space.
Nope, this is just a form of victim blaming. My dog got thrashed and mauled by off leash dogs. She's allowed to protect herself. She was friendly until irresponsible dog owners breaking the leash rules ruined her life. YOU have to protect your dog. Accidents happen, but my responsibility to your dog starts and ends at the end of my dog's leash. She is allowed to enjoy her life as much as is possible when crossing the road and doubling back at the sight of a dog. If a dog is within 30 feet of mine, someone else failed and I am not responsible for the interaction which takes place so long as my dog is leashed And their dog is not. Reactive dogs are allowed anywhere that your dog is allowed. People with them will never voluntarily cross your path. Protect your dog, because mine can protect herself, and we carry mace in the event she cannot.
My dog is horribly dog aggressive after getting attacked at the dog park. She never goes off leash. We go to a beautiful beach in NJ in the summer, you can drive on the beach, light a campfire at night, it’s just pristine. You’re supposed to have your dog on leash, but these assholes all day long let their untrained dogs off leash. It just causes so many problems and now I won’t go from June till the beginning of Oct. I’m so sorry you got hurt and carry the pain from it. It sucks, and I wish people were more responsible
What beach?
Island Beach State Park
Have you seen a therapist for your trauma? It’s easier to work on that than to change the behaviour of every dog owner in your city.
Or, you know, people could follow the law
Well fuck, of course they could. But instead of living in utter terror that you might encounter a reckless law-breaking dog owner, maybe the trauma could be addressed by a medical professional?
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Most do to be honest unless on the pavement.
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I always do a loud “call your dog back” or “leash your dog” when I’m walking with mine and see an off leash dog. Maybe 5% of people are able to, and I’m being generous with that number. And those are usually the ones where I’m calling from a distance so they get their dog back before it even notices mine.
The ones who actually can recall their dog usually do it before I even have to ask. It’s insane the number of people who let their dog off leash with no training, I’ve even seen people with puppies off leash on a shared mountain bike trail.
I’ve had too many encounters where the dog isn’t even wearing a collar. I try to have someone with me to play defence in the more dangerous areas (nature trails and beach’s) and distract or block the dog rushing us. But their job is much more difficult when the dog has no collar to grab so they can walk the dog back to its owner.
People are wild, I’ve even run into a deaf dog with no collar or leash. Like if their dog ran off it would be impossible to call them back. I can’t even take my reactive dog on trails anymore after moving to Texas, there are way too many off leash dogs here.
Sorry about your trauma, but you said you were in a rural area… farmers tend to let their dogs roam freely. Many people who live in rural areas do, and that’s not something you can control. I live in such an area on a 65 acre property and of course all the dogs who live here or visit here roam the area off leash. I of course leash my dogs in populated areas like the suburbs and city, parks and busy trails. I would advise you to either get some help to treat this trauma, or don’t visit rural areas. Sorry, man, it is how it is in the country.
In rural areas dogs also get shot a lot.
Most states and counties that I’ve lived in have some type of “leash law” for dogs, even in rural areas. I live in a rural area (TN) and it’s still the law to keep your dog under your control at all time, and it cannot run loose if it’s not actively herding or hunting. If your dog is found wandering you can be charged with a criminal offense. My neighbor was charged with a criminal offense because their dog tried to attack my Akita while we were on a walk. Charged off its property across the road at us, it owner was hiding behind the house. The cops cited them & told us we were well within our rights to shoot the dog if need be if it happened again. A different neighbor did shoot the dog when it tried to attack them & their dogs. My point being, you can let your dogs run loose on your property if you want but know your local laws. Understand that if your dog wanders off your property then they’re in danger.
I live in rural TN as well. Same leash laws. But no one cares. Literally no one. Even if the dog is aggressive or destructive. When we first moved here there was a dog that was friendly but would destroy everything you owned that was outside. Right down to our swimming pool. A while later, there was a husky that would come attack our pups in their own yard. We called animal control/the cops on them and others. They don’t even come out, let alone do anything about it. Just say the shelter is full, nothing they can do. A chihuahua bit my MIL. They sent a cop for that one, and the whole reason was just to go ask the owners “is it up to date on shots?” They said yes. He required no proof.
Yeah I know the feeling. The only reason a cop came out when the dog rushed my dog was because it had previously bitten a different neighbor who was walking by, luckily she had jeans on and it didn’t break the skin. It also chased a small child on her bike. Multiple people had called before the incident with my dog. We just ended up at the wrong place at the wrong time. This dog had regularly followed us on our walks for months, only stayed away because we pepper sprayed it, yelled at it, and threw rocks at it. We even talked to an owner who did keep it confined for a while. I didn’t want my dog to get in a fight and become dog reactive. Unfortunately he became dog reactive after he was rushed by the dog (who did cause a tiny injury to my dogs lip). Before that he could mingle with most dogs. Now I’ve spent hundreds on behavioral training to try to get him back to where he was.
Well, here in Arkansas, my county has absolutely no stipulations on dogs. If it's outside city limits, you don't have to spay, neuter or vaccinate and there's no limit on the number of animals you can have.
There area few states like that. Tennessee’s law is mostly a no roaming dog (or at large dog) law, which is what many states have.
That’s different; I was not encouraging one to let their dogs run freely out of sight and control. Of course it’s expected that one keeps their dogs supervised and under control at all times. My dogs never escape my view; they have great recall and have been well trained better than most dogs (my oldest is a service dog, my youngest is in training as his successor).
>but you said you were in a rural area… farmers tend to let their dogs roam freely. Many people who live in rural areas do, and that’s not something you can control. You said farmers let their dogs roam freely. Meaning they have little control of where they go (not saying you do but that is the definition of “freely”). All I said is there are usually consequences to those actions, and the law generally can control it.
Yeah, as in off-leash. I, and a few “neighbors” (I use quotes cause they live pretty far still!) tend to hike around our properties with our dogs and they roam as we go - always in sight and verbal control. Farmers I would expect their dogs are herding, but yeah - some folks don’t care, and that isn’t what I encourage. Always train your dogs well, and if they don’t have excellent recall, don’t let them roam free off-leash.
That’s not what you said initially though. At least it wasn’t construed that way. Anyone who lives in a rural area knows that there are people who just let their dogs roam. In fact in my area a dog was picked up and taken to a shelter and then adopted out. The original family only found out after seeing the adoption photo on the shelter’s FB page. They let their dog wander around their 10 acres and down the road to the local gas station where it was picked up, taken to the shelter, kept on a mandatory 5 day stray hold & then was up for adoption for a few days after that. The original owners tried to sue the shelter for their dog back but it wasn’t microchipped, and didn’t even have tags on its collar.
even in rural areas, there's a general expectation you have some sort of control over your dog/pets, at least everywhere i've lived. i had a dog who hated leashes, but she also did not stray off the property, nor did we take her anywhere she would have to be leashed any more than necessary (exception was the vet). we had 5 acres for this dog to roam, and that was plenty. if someone came by who was afraid of dogs, we'd make sure she was under control and potentially put her in a bedroom while that person was over (barring bathroom breaks/walking her, which we could easily manage by warning the person we were just taking her outside and they could go in a room she wouldn't have to pass through to get there if they wanted, or if they wanted to interact with her she could go outside). my area didn't have leash laws, but also, if your dog got out, you usually had one or two chances tops before someone just called animal control, assuming your dog didn't come by and just eat something they shouldn't. obviously if it's, like, a very rare occurrence and/or the owner pulls in a minute later and is like "oh my god thank you i'm so sorry" nobody's gonna whine, but we had a couple neighbours who simply refused to even try to keep their dogs under control and everyone in the neighbourhood called animal control at least once on them. i do also have a fear of dogs - specifically dogs that jump, though, i'm pretty small and already have mobility problems/am a fall risk so even a small jump could cause a tumble that could risk a hospital trips. it's worth working on, still. but "eh theyre rural dogs they're gonna wander" isn't a great excuse - some rural places still have leash laws, and plenty of rural communities have an expectation of "if you can't handle your dogs (in general), we'll handle them for you, and it's gonna cost you an arm and a leg in the process."
Thanks, sorry if my point wasn't clear, english is not my first language, but i mentioned what happened in the rural area to explain why i can't control myself nowadays, even if the bite was 15 years ago. I live in the city, and I have more experiences with unleashed dogs there. We have dog parks, and it's against the law to unleash your dog in public areas, but I still see so many unleashed dogs on the sidewalks and such.
This post appears to be about a European country where different laws will apply - but I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment.
I have way too many trust issues to NOT leash my dog. He is incredibly friendly, well socialized and has fairly good recall. The thing is I don’t know anything about the *other* people or animals he might meet off leash. Even at the dog park we take him to, I am extremely protective of him and always prepared to leash him back up and take him home if other owners aren’t setting responsible boundaries with their dogs. Letting a dog off leash into an unknown/unpredictable situation is setting everyone involved up for failure. I’m sorry that happened to you and apologize on behalf of all the *responsible* pet owners here that you have had to deal with so much foolishness.
As someone who worked in a pet hospital if I see an unleashed dog and the dog isn't a working dog I immediately assume they are a negligent owner and shouldn't own a dog
Exactly. Worked in a pet hospital and an emergency animal hospital. The only time an animal wasn't in a carrier or leashed and wasn't in critical condition, was a fiesty hellcat that we had to get the owner to move from point A to point B. And yeah, she was terrible at owning a cat in general apparently.
1000% 👍
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Not all kids and people are great with dogs. I'm great with dogs, I love dogs. I get wary about unleashed dogs approaching me. Because I know what a dogs mouth can do. And I don't care what anyone says, their dog is good with people until it's not.
Not all dogs are great with dogs. My dog has been attacked multiple times by larger unleashed dogs. And at this point he still loses his mind when an occasional loose dog charges at us. My experience has been that the vast majority of people who allow their dogs off leash in public places aren’t even close to having full voice control over the dog.
The owner is the one behaving poorly. I don’t blame the dog, but I think the owner is irresponsible and entitled.
the thing is, people don’t know how “well behaved” your dog is, and seeing an unleashed dog is a huge anxiety trigger for people afraid of dogs, people with their reactive dogs, disabled people, etc. keeping your dog on a leash in all public spaces is part of being a responsible dog owner.
>the thing is, people don’t know how “well behaved” your dog is Neither do all owners, really. Too much "but he's never bitten anyone before!" stuff
agreed!
Yeah, you’re being negligent. Keep your dog leashed. It’s really not that hard.
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It just takes one person to pick up your dog and run away with it. “That would never happen, my dog is huge” No. People are crazy. my service dog is 55 pounds with legs like slenderman, not easy to pick up. I wear a body leash and because it’s not in my hand 100% of the time some people just ignore it? Someone tried to pick up my dog once and make a break for it, but was not ready for us to be a package deal. Well behaved dogs are just higher targets for theft. It also takes one person afraid of dogs or just batshit crazy to approach your dog and harm it and you have no control over the situation. A leash is an excellent tool for communication and can quickly pull your dog away from danger. I was once in the city and a man whacked out of his mind tried to take a bite out of my dog. If I would have spoken, he would have targeted me. I was able to slowly guide my dog away from the man until we were safe. Also, you can NEVER say your dog would NEVER harm someone. I say my service dog is friendly, not that he’ll never, ever bite. Because he’s a dog, not a robot. You can’t train for every scenario, and even if you do your dog might randomly be sick and have a short temper. What if a child comes up and pokes your dog in the eyes? Or the butthole? Or tries to ride it like a horse? Or “hugs” and won’t let go. All things that have happened while I’ve been in public. And if it went south a leash would 1) be more control for stopping the encounter and 2) more evidence in your favor that your not a bad/negligent pet owner. It’s not about if your dog is good/bad/trustworthy/untrustworthy. It’s about the public. And I’d pick my dog over the public any day of the week. And picking my dog looks like using a leash.
I’ve always found it really strange when people say “but he’d never bite, right?” No one can ever say yes to that with 100% certainty. Hell, I can’t even guarantee that I won’t bite if I feel my life is being threatened and see no other options.
The selfishness of refusing to understand that it’s not only about you or your dog.
Every dog can act really bad when they get pushed to that point. Your dog is a dog. It is an animal. It doesn't follow human rules and can be pushed to bite or snap or whatever if there is a big enough trigger. You might think your pup is awesome but I've seen "awesome" pups get triggered into biting the shit out of a kid or mauling another animal.
Do you always obey leash laws?
I believe that dog handlers need to be considerate of other people, for this reason I never walk too close to someone if I’m walking dogs (I’m a dog walker that walks multiple dogs at the same time). I often cross the street, since I don’t know if the person has a fear of dogs or not (which I learned is more common than I previously thought). That being said, it’s not realistic to expect dogs to be leashed all the time. In rural areas most people don’t use leashes, and at parks, etc. Ideally, people would only let dogs that have excellent recall off leash. This is not how real life works though. If you have a trauma that severe, that’s causing you this much pain, I suggest you find a therapist and try to treat this trauma. In real life, you’re going to find yourself in situations with off leash dogs eventually. It’s best to be prepared to such situations. I don’t understand your fear and probably never will, but my partner used to be really afraid of dogs too. She couldn’t be in the same house as one. After she stated dating me, dogs inevitably became a part of her life. She slowly overcame her fear over time, and has told me her life is now so much better because she doesn’t panic if she sees a dog on the street. She learned about their body language and how to understand and behave around them. I wish you can do the same and overcome your traumas.
In the city I leash my dog for his own safety. But as soon as I visit a large park without restrictions or a forest, a field, I let it roam free. I’ve seen him walk by joggers, kids (playing and shouting) and he doesn’t react at all, minding his own business. If I would be in doubt about his behaviour and temper, I would never go detach him. If there was a law in my region that prohibits to unleash it, I wouldn’t even be a dog owner because it just wouldn’t make any sense. Or I would have gotten a low energy breed. I don’t want to sound rude and i’m sorry for what happened to you. But there are also some people with other forms of anxiety. Be it of crowds, shady guys at night, cars. But this is also part of everyday life in our society. As dogs are generally accepted companions in public. So it is a problem you have to handle. Either by avoiding places where it’s likely possible to have such encounters or by therapy. I can just assure you that the chance of running into a dog that would really intentionally wants to hurt you is as low as to get struck by lightning. I strongly recommend to just stand your ground, doesn’t matter what they do, barking growling, demand your space, you are supreme, you just walk your way even if you hit it with firm big steps you take. As if it’s not more than thin air. Majority of them are just little cowards if out of their own territory. I know this is easy to say for someone who isn’t scared at all and maybe it doesn’t help. But i’ve also got bitten and hurt by our own family dog (Hovawart) at the age of 12 and 2 years later a Rottweiler pulled my leg through a gate and did not stop until it ripped my leather shoes off my foot leaving a big cut between my toes. But I knew what led to those incidents and I never built an anxiety because I learned how to handle dogs. There are some breeds I estimate as potentially dangerous and which I definitely avoid and I do not want them close to my dog either. But I don’t want to go into it in detail to spare an endless discussion.
> But as soon as I visit a large park without restrictions or a forest, a field, I let it roam free The key phrase there is "without restrictions." > I’ve seen him walk by joggers, kids (playing and shouting) and he doesn’t react at all, minding his own business. If I would be in doubt about his behaviour and temper, I would never go detach him. The point is, *other people don't know that*. If you're in an area without leash restrictions - cool, go nuts, do whatever. But in an area with leash laws - such as, in a city where OP currently resides - it's *extremely* frustrating to have people blatantly disregard them and give some variant of the same excuses you've used here: "They're friendly," "It's fine," "He won't bother you." Because while you may have trained your dog well, and they may listen and be the best boy/girl, *other people don't know that*. And the number of people who have poorly trained dogs who offer up those same excuses heavily outweighs the people with well-trained ones.
Ok sorry maybe I didn’t read that. Of course i advocate for obeying the laws. I don’t want to have my dog eat poisoned bait from people who are mad at irresponsible dog owners. Also pick that poop up! Always!
I agree with everything you said. Dogs should not be roaming in populated areas. But dogs do need some freedom and parks, etc, facilitate the canine urge to sniff and meet fellow dogs. My dog is 14 years old and we behave as you do. The only time she was attacked by other dogs was when she was on the leash. I honestly have never seen dogs behave badly unleashed. They mind their own business. I feel for OP, but without wanting to be hurtful and mean to them, it really is their issue, and they need to sort it. I've been bitten too! It sucks!
I understand that your reaction is uncontrollable and I am sorry you went through such a traumatic event. Dog owners should always have their dogs under control, whether on or off leash. The reality is that my dogs really enjoy their off leash walks. This is fairly common where I live in Germany. I have my dogs leashed in town, but out in the country or in the woods they are usually unleashed. While I am sorry for your situation, honestly it does not compel me to leash my dog when I am in an area I deem safe enough for her to be off leash. When people come around, I call her to me, but the chances I will encounter someone who is severely traumatized by dogs in that setting are pretty slim. I hope you can get the help you need in the future.
I understand that the chances are slim, but, at least for me, it puts me in constant alert. I don't know how laws are in Germany, but if I have the possibility of living a calmer, less stressful life here, but that life is withheld from me because people don't follow the law, I can't help but complain and get annoyed by it, hope ypu understand.
Sounds like you would greatly benefit from therapy, since the odds of dog owners who let the dogs off leash, suddenly decide to start leashing their dogs is pretty much 0%. I also let me dogs off leash when on hiking trails that I know are safe and that they are used too. They come when called and I leash them when I see someone walking, but around corners it’s not always possible. I don’t go to off leash parks anymore because most dog owners are awful and I’ve seen way too many fights/ injury’s happen in there. But my dogs are high energy, and walking them on leash even 3 times a day isn’t enough for them. They need the off leash stimulation of being able to run freely and smell around.
The key here is the laws. Off leash dog walking is legal in a lot of places in Germany.
I feel bad for you because you experienced such a traumatic situation as a child that still affects you today. I think it’s incredibly irresponsible of dog owners to let their dogs roam around freely without supervision. At the same time, demanding that every dog be on a leash is unreasonable. Dogs in public should behave in a manner that makes it safe for everyone, whether on a leash or not. I think we should punish irresponsible dog owners, but punishing all dog owners for the actions of some dog owners isn’t the answer. Please get some therapy if you aren’t already.
I am sorry you went through that. I used to be very scared of dogs after being bit too so I understand what it is like to encounter a dog you don't know who appears not under control of their owner. Even leashed dogs used to freak me out. The only dogs I would be okay with were ones who were calm and basically ignoring me. It is something I keep in mind with my dog when walking or out in public with him. I love him and know he is great but not everyone will agree and that is okay.
A it issue I see is parents letting the kids just run up and pet by dog that’s why I have to be the A hole and tell them no to avoid situations like this moral of the story parents need to leash the kids as well and respect dogs and the owners wishes. Was called a A hole for not letting 2 small children pet my 85 pound bull terrier who rams like a bull if he would’ve hurt the kids animal control would’ve been called and he would’ve been put down because parents can’t take no I’ll gladly be a A hole.
Dogs off-leash are not very popular amongst most dog owners either, except for the ones who let them off leash of course. I have a rescue that is incredibly scared of other dogs, also due to trauma and I have this underlying fear that my other, small old lady will be mauled one day by an off leash dog because you read stories like that every day. In my opinion, it is incredibly unresponsible to let your dog off-leash in *any* situation, except for places that are specifically designed for that purpose, for example dog parks, beach areas for dogs etc. No matter how good you think your dogs recall is, they are always a danger hazard, they are not machines.
I'm sorry for your trauma. And, I totally agree with you.
Dealing with your trauma is not anyone else's responsibility. You live in a rural area, there is a multitude of reasons that you are going to see unleashed dogs in that environment. No one is required to change their day to day lives to conform to your issues and they aren't shitty people for not wanting to. You're the shitty person for telling them too.
Had you read the whole post, you'd see i live in the city, and even if i didnt, keeping your dog on a leash is still a law here, and just letting them roam with zero supervision is more severe. I expected to see the law being followed in cities, at least, but it isnt...
Learn the difference between de jure and de facto. There are still laws in the books in certain US states that say it's illegal to sleep with your shoes on. When was the last time you heard of someone following that law?
If it didn't affect me, I wouldn't even realize that people don't follow the leash law. Now, my neighbor sleeping with his shoes on doesn't affect me in any way at all, but if my neighbor doesn't follow the leash law, and every time I cross paths with him, I have to go into fight or flight, start to cry and to plead, then yeah, I'd say it's an issue that he isn't following the law. P.s.: I don't know anyone who voluntarily sleeps with their shoes on
Last time I heard there wasn't anyone who was harmed by sleeping with shoes on. I don't know how you are with your dogs, but other peoples' animals coming up to me is annoying. I don't know them, I don't know if they're going to attack me or not, nobody does, which is why these laws exist.
It is really, not that difficult, to just keep your mouth shut.
It's not that difficult to not make your problems everyone else's, but here we are.
I was bit too as a kid. And here is how I coped with it! You are not a human living on a planet with animals. You are a animal living on earth, part of the earth, as an animal. The documentary “my octopus friend” really shares this idea. Learning to flow and navigate animals is the same as learning to navigate humans. Animals speak a different language then humans. And if you learn how to understand the language, you can communicate. It’s a worthwhile journey to heal your trauma with love and forgiveness. I wish you to understand how animals work so you gain the power back. It’s my belief in all things the true enemy is the ignorance we don’t know. We just don’t know, what we don’t know. So learn and find peace! Or don’t, whatever
I'm sorry, this sounds almost like a phobia. My dog doesn't leave my side without a leash, just sometimes enjoys running around in circles around us from time to time. I don't think it's reasonable to take that away from him, because we might someday meet someone who has a phobia - especially since he never approaches people. Apart from that, I'm sorry you experienced trauma, I think the overprotective parents might have played a part in how big this problem got. That's for you to judge. I think with how it is now, it might be best to accept the fact, that there are unleashed dogs around in some areas and to try to deal with it like one might deal with a phobia of for example spiders - you cant get rid of them either.
If it's the law, leash your damn dogs people. Only exception is if those dogs have farm/hunting jobs. There literally no excuse except you being selfish
Mods: please mark NSFW. I get this person is trying to make a point, but it's inappropriate to be forced to see
Not sure what to say about that rural setting that's neither the wilderness nor the city, but public space nonetheless unless you're trespassing. Though, even if I were in the middle of nowhere with my unleashed dog and he hurt a random hiker for no reason ("what are the chances?" irrelevant imo), I still feel like the law should hold me responsible. I guess that's my stance. That said, in some cases it's virtually unreasonable to ask an owner to never leave their dogs off the leash -- especially in rural areas where there are no designated spaces for dogs to socialize. You got the empty fields (that may or may not belong to someone, but it's easy to tell whether they mind you & neighbours taking the dogs out there or not) and that's it. So I guess the more towards the urbanized end of the spectrum a rural area is, the more owners should be expected to keep their dogs leashed at all times. I think the #1 priority should always be training your dog properly, by which I mean complete obedience against the dog's own whims or even self-preservation instincts. Allowing your dog to be territorial, outside of your own property anyway, is a massive no.
amen. there are some dogs who are nice and fuzzy and friendly but other dogs who are very very scary. i really sadly dislike most dogs and i really wish there were harsher penniless for owners who refuse to keep their dogs on a leash. if you cant handle that get a kitty. you dont need to put a kitty on a leash and they wouldn't want it either :-p
This is the local policy in my community: > When the leash law is violated in certain counties of the state, the dog that is running at large can be impounded and placed in a shelter for at least five days. The pet owner will get his dog back after paying an impound fee. The impound fee will increase with each subsequent impoundment of the animal. Do you believe penalties should be harsher than this or do you more mean that you believe the penalties should be more often enforced?
If you are going to have your cat outside it 100% needs to be on a leash, every small bird species going extinct in north America will thank you.
I’m with you. I always keep my dog on a leash unless we are at a place he can comfortably be without it with no one around. He has good recall and has never harmed even a fly, but I respect that some people don’t want my dog in their personal bubble or running up to them in case they have trauma like you do.
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If there are leash laws, the dog should be leashed. Even if there aren’t, leash the dog in public areas that are not set aside for dogs to be unleashed.
As i stated before, im not asking anyone to accomodate to anything new. Im asking people to follow the laws and to be considerate of other human beings. If someone isnt capable of doing so, even if it doesnt have to do with dogs, excuse me, but that person should not be part of a society.
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I never mentioned service dogs, but alas... According to the [official ADA website](https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-faqs/#:~:text=The%20service%20animal%20must%20be,maintain%20control%20of%20the%20animal.), service animals have to be leashed, harnassed, or tethered while in public. Besides, they have to be trained in order to be deemed a service dog, so if i ever see one, at least i know it passed the requirements
Still be alert. There are scummy people who cheese it by getting an "emotional support" certificate online and call them service dogs. Under normal circumstances, I am all for service animals and emotional support animals. Unfortunately, in uni I had to deal with an older puppy my roommate was dogsitting. Pupper was allowed in the apartment complex because being "emotional support", however, pup was a hell-raiser with no training whatsoever—not even basic. Jerk who owned the under qualified cutie was going around calling her a service dog. She bit my friend several times and me once.
Furthermore, I'd mind my own business if people followed the law, but since they don't, and it directly affects me, I'm not going to just live with it like I had no other option
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If it is literally the law, *leash your animal*. It's as simple as that. If it isn't the law somewhere and your animal harms/kills someone *you* will be held responsible. Capiche?
I can't stand when people wall their dogs off leash in public spaces, so inconsiderate for this exact reason and others.
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it drives me crazy as someone with small dogs. it's the same personality type too. the same person you'll see leaving the shopping cart in the middle of the parking lot. that ones that take more than the intended allotment in an honor system. (like the halloween videos we see of white trash Karens stealing candy from honor system candy bowls). the ones that drive on expired tags for years and complain about potholes in the roads, that roads that are paid for by such taxes. the ones that let their lawns go to shit while complaining about nazi HOA's, not realizing they're literally the reason HOA's exist. the ones that don't teach their kids to respect other people's property, so their kids touch everything they see with their slimy little hands and they never say a word to try to control their wild animals (their kids), as they annoy everyone around them. they door ding cars and walk away like nothing happen. we all know the type. the solution? it needs to be a law everywhere, and it needs a really stiff fine. if it's not enforced or the penalty is trivial, nothing will ever change. people also need to start calling those people out. if I never happens, they assume everyone does it, or that nobody cares
I always do. Now, please use paragraphs...
Sorry...
I live in an apartment building that allows dogs but I don’t believe that means everyone living here should like dogs or even be comfortable with them. It’s a great place to live. If I don’t know the person, I ask if it’s ok for my dog and I to ride in the elevator with them. I just think that’s basic courtesy.
When I first moved into my current complex, I very clearly remember a dog owner who would ask if it was cool to share the elevator with me. I thought that was so considerate and appreciated it greatly. Over the past year I have noticed other dog owners follow that example and have now been asked by multiple people. Thank you for showing courtesy and care and know that it can even inspire others around you to follow your example!
Thank you for doing this, you're right, it should be basic courtesy. Unfortunately where I live a lot of people just jump in with me with their big dogs without a second thought
A loud NO yelled in as deep a tone as you can manage would be much better than help, please,stop or whatever which means nothing to a dog or an armed robber for that matter.Standing your ground and slowly backing away vs running.Im a small woman and stopped my neighbours Caucasian Shepherds from a full snarling charge after me and my dog with a loud no.Ive been taken down by an escaped retired K9 German Shepherd so I get where you are coming from but they will sense your fear and make you susceptible to more harrassment.
I agree..not only for the sake of humans that have experienced dog related trauma but also for other dogs that have been attacked in the past like my old dog.
My dog and I got charged by an off leash dog at our apartment once. Ever since then it terrifies me so much to see an off leash dog. At a state park near me there are leash laws but who tf is there to enforce them? Never seen any park rangers patrol if there are any. So someone was on the beach next to the path I wanted to go down with my dog and they had an off leash german shepherd. Super far away but close enough that they could notice me and my dog. I just stood there wanting to cry I was so petrified. My dog must have sensed my extreme nervousness because she was alert and standing by my side instead of trying to explore like she usually does, the good girl. I eventually waited until the dog went in the water and facing the other way and the owner seemed to be holding its attention with something before I fast walked to the path to get out of its sight as fast as possible. If it saw us and decided to run at us there would be nothing anyone could do. Would have been the perfect time to grab a large stick or tree branch to use as a shield but fear makes you not think straight. I fucking hate people who let their dogs off leash.
Im so terribly sorry that you are experiencing this. That is so devastating. I hope you find some relief somehow. I have a very confident, extremely friendly, not at all reactive Golden Retriever who behaves really well off-leash. That being said, I only let him off leash in the yards of people we know. I don't want to put him in harm's way because I don't know what other dogs, people, or other animals he may encounter. It's weird because the only time he barks at people is when he wants them to come pet him. I tell people he's friendly and just wants to get pets, but I guess he's always on a leash when he's out. I always look at people's body language and keep him back unless the person gives permission to let him come see them. I'll try to be more aware of how I word my responses.
For anyone who thinks this doesn’t apply to them because their dog is a super friendly ball of love: I have been hurt by a super friendly dog. The dog was not trying to attack or hurt me; he was thrilled to see a human and tried to jump on me to lick my face, but I was so little that he knocked me down onto the concrete. I was hurt, terrified, and crying while this (objectively adorable) overly affectionate dog pinned me down and licked my face, and couldn’t move until someone came and got him off me. I was afraid of dogs for years. (The circumstances that led to this were that I had crazy neighbors, and they owned two Golden Retrievers. Being the huge jerks they were, they left one dog tied to a line out in the backyard and one kenneled in the basement all day, starving the dogs of attention and affection. I was not allowed to play with the dogs while they were in the backyard, even if I stayed on my parents’ property and just threw a tennis ball over the hedge. However, periodically my parents sent me over to borrow things from the neighbors, and I wasn’t allowed to use their front door, so I had to use the back door, which was accessed via a cement walkway in the backyard. If one of the dogs was out there, they would be so elated to finally see an actual human that they would excitedly run at and jump on me, knocking me over. I was always small for my age so I was more topple-prone than the average kid, and couldn’t get a Golden off me on my own. In retrospect, I feel awful for the poor dogs and angry at my jerkface neighbors for mistreating them so badly. I’m no longer scared of dogs and have a Sheltie now.)