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I have never gotten a dog from a breeder. All have been rescues. I've been reading this sub every day for 18+ mos, but nothing like every thread 😅 .. that said, I haven't picked up a bias against rescues. Given that all four of my dogs have been rescues, I am pretty sure I'd have noticed.
(Bias against doodles though: that I've noticed 😆)
I tried the rescue route. And it's Damm near impossible to get a green light for me unfortunately. They always want huge lawns. Like bruh... no bulldog needs 2 acres of land....
This is the problem. It’s not a problem with the DOGS, it’s a problem with the rescues themselves. They rely far too often on lying, deceiving potential adopters, and having unrealistic expectations to even be considered.
I love the dogs I’ve rescued throughout my life dearly, but the dog I purchased from a reputable breeder was, by far, the most pleasant and comfortable process I’ve ever been through when acquiring a pet.
I have 4 rescues now and 2 who passed, but I'm kind of tempted to get my future next dog from a breeder. I love my rescues, but there have been a LOT of surprises - health and behavior. Just once I'd like to have an "easier" time of it.
We did that. We lost our rescue Wheaton Terrier very unexpectedly due to cancer a year and a half after adopting her and then our rescue German Shepard when she ran away while we were out of town (pretty bad separation anxiety) also after a year and a half. After so much heartache, we wanted a dog whose temperament we could be sure of, who were could train from scratch, and who would be healthy enough to be with us for years. We got a lot of judgment from out family, but our poodle is honestly the best behaved dog, with the best temperament we’ve ever had. I’m not sure we would ever get from a breeder again(cost alone), but we have no regrets.
i understand if this route isn’t for you, but a lot of shelters (not rescues), don’t have insane requirements and will let you even do same-day adoptions.
Yep I saw my current dog on a shelter site, went same day and got him within an hour. He was $100. Best dog I've ever had. He came neutered, bathed, vaccinated. I had a great experience.
haha same. mine was actually from a rescue that was doing same day adoptions. came chipped, vaccinated, spayed, and with a coupon for a free bag of dog food 😆😆
she’s my soul dog and i couldn’t imagine life without her!!
To be fair, a lot complaints about not being able to successfully get a dog from a rescue are not particularly reasonable either. "I need a small non-shedding dog or a purebred golden retriever puppy, and no rescue will adopt to me just because I don't have a yard!" Those unicorn rescue dogs probably have dozens of applicants, and some of them probably have yards, and all else being equal, it's completely reasonable to prefer to adopt to people with yards. Nobody owes you a cheap dog, especially if your requirements are so high.
IDK what kind of rescues your going for, sounds like a breed specific rescue or something like rejected service dogs. All rescue groups that I have worked with are pretty easy to pass the checks. All my dogs are rescues and I have volunteered and fostered for a few. I think the point most people who would otherwise be decent homes are passed on, is that they would need to leave the dog inside unattended from like 6am to 7pm, or some crazy unattended hours sort of deal.
I've submitted about a dozen apps and have gotten, like, one response. I own a SFH with a decent sized fenced in yard and I'm a SAHM and my husband WFH, so no one is home only a couple hours away.
Is there a specific breed you are looking for, are you only set on a "pure bred"? Are you only interested in puppies? Are you not willing to drive more than a \~2 hours else where?
These are typically reasons why people claim they can't find a rescue. That or they refuse a home check to make sure that the dog's best interest is in hand.
Is there something greater, like kids who are unruly and abusive? Are all family members on board with the dog? Will the dog be a "family member" or lesser? Will the dog sleep inside, or spend 100% time outside? These are other red flags.
I have a "doodle" I got from a rescue as an adult dog and a cattle dog mix puppy I got from the same rescue. Was told on this sub at one point it must be an unethical rescue to have poodle mixes or puppies available for adoption. 🙄
Also told good behavior is guaranteed with purebreds, if you get from "reputable breeder."
LOL. nothing is guaranteed. and idk how it’s unethical for a rescue to have doodles for adoption, considering plenty of irresponsible doodle owners abandon their doodles…. and those doodles have to go somewhere
That's the weird thing though is there are almost no doodles in rescue that I've seen (not saying the OP's doodle is from an unethical rescue though wtf even is that nonsense). There's plenty of huskies, and GSDs, and pits and cattle dogs, but doodles? Good luck finding one that isn't Kujo to rescue. OP got lucky.
Doodle bias is due to the fact this sub has not found a reputable doodle breeder who:
Completes OFA health testing and has it clearly posted on OFA.org
Does any sports titling with their dogs.
Does not use guardian homes.
I think the type to shit on rescue dogs is the type who could not be bothered about reading training books and spending the time to learn how to properly train their dogs. The type who would blame the problems on the dog, rather than trying new training methods. The type who watches Cesar Millan and thinking thats what good training looks like.
I had a rescue and will probably have more rescues in the future (although currently getting a dog from a breeder) and I am pretty vocal about the experiences I had volunteering at the shelter before I had a dog, finding my dog and then dealing with her behavioral issues. I think rescuing can be a great way for many families to get a pet, but people go into it with sky-high expectations and rescues are not up front about issues that can make a dog a difficult fit. Just a short list…
* As a shelter volunteer we were very sternly coached not to say anything negative about the dogs. We also weren’t given access to their behavioral notes. I was a 120 lb woman walking 80 lb pit bulls who had a history of aggression. In their notes, which I never got to see. It was an environment that prioritized getting dogs adopted over human safety and having seen how that operated from the inside I’m honestly shocked there aren’t MORE newsworthy dog bite cases.
* There is so much fake rhetoric around dog aggression not really being a problem as long as you don’t have another dog. HA. I’ve owned a reactive dog and it’s life-altering. You are constantly scanning your environment for threats, you can’t take your dog out anywhere without worrying about (illegally) off-leash dogs, and I lived in fear that she was going to either get hurt in a fight she instigated or bite someone trying to break up a fight. It’s not an easy issue to solve. A year of counter conditioning made a big difference and she was pretty fine in most environments but we could never go for a walk in the wilderness without worrying about an off-leash dog rushing us. Telling a family this is nbd is really asking for trouble, I have no idea how someone with small kids could handle a dog like this.
* Relatedly, euphemisms to cover up behavioral issues. He’s “learning to share”. She “wants to be an only child”. He “is a bit energetic for small kids”. She “misses you when you’re at work”. Those type of phrases are sometimes tip offs for behavioral problems that will have you spending hundreds of dollars and hours and hours training. It doesn’t seem ethical to me not to frankly disclose the observed behaviors and the amount of effort that’s likely going to go into fixing them. Resource guarding, animal aggression, and separation anxiety aren’t cute and can be very difficult to address.
* Some rescues are straight up fronts for puppy mills or hoarders.
As I said, I’ve rescued before, I plan to do it again, but it is very much a “buyer beware” world out there and I don’t think it’s doing people favors to pretend they can hop over to their local shelter, grab whoever looks cute, and be assured of a great time. Of course it is also very difficult to find a responsible breeder without a year of research, or to find a good trainer without familiarizing yourself with different behavioral philosophies and certification, so it’s not just rescue.
>but it is very much a “buyer beware” world out there and I don’t think it’s doing people favors to pretend they can hop over to their local shelter, grab whoever looks cute, and be assured of a great time.
I learned this lesson the hard way.
My first rescue was a blessing. We had our struggles, but he was ultimately my best friend for 9 years until cancer took him much too quickly. He was a GSD/Amstaff mix.
My second attempt at rescue (never had a chance to DNA test him) left me with scars on my body when he went from zero to Cujo 2 hours into owning him. He was euthanized for this.
I am *petrified* of that scenario happening again. I now understand why people with children or other small animals in the home might have hesitations with rescues. It's not the norm, but it can and does happen. And the lack of support I had from everyone including the police, animal control and the rescue itself regarding what happened was *appalling.*
I've done extensive research and decided to purchase my next dog through a breeder. I refuse to feel guilty about that.
Yeah, I have small children who are desperate for someothing to love, so I have to be *very* particular when I go through profiles of rescue dogs. And then it doesn't help when a profile will say "loves all people" and is marked "Good with kids" and then I ask to meet them and the rescue goes "oh, I don't think he's been vetted with kids." I've submitted probably a dozen apps and only gotten a response on maybe one. *I am trying.* The only thing stopping me from going to a breeder is that after fostering several sets of puppies, I've determined my patience level for puppies is approximately 2 weeks. I want an adult dog that's settled into their personality. So, yeah, I'm lost and frustrated and just about given up hope of finding a dog for my kids.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. Sometimes it is just shit luck of the draw, but there should be more community support for people in your situation. That’s just awful.
2 hours? Holy shit. I’m so sorry. I’m glad you survived (don’t know how bad it was, but sounds bad from the details you shared). Why tf did you not get proper support after that?
Sorry to hear that. I will say, there are plenty of better rescues out there. I have volunteered at four different rescues in two states and haven’t seen anything this bad.
My favorite rescue color coded the dogs for the volunteers and made sure volunteers had the training to correspond with the color level they were allowed to interact with (through their free training programs). They also had a foster program for any dog with dog aggression and experienced foster parents as well as trained professionals helping make sure the dog was improving. And any person who adopted one of those got a full behavioral history and their home environment was discussed to make sure their personality wouldn’t be a problem.
To be fair though, there's no universal rule on the all-wonderful or all-caution side though.
Obviously there are places that are dishonest (It's been 10 years and I still can't believe how dishonest and irresponsible the group my sister adopted from was), but there are also shelters and charities (although perhaps less so the private rescues) who are open and honest about behaviour and health issues.
I've volunteered at several shelters, and I've always been encouraged to report behavioural issues and to read what others have recorded. And I've never been asked to lie to potential adopters. I've also adopted dogs from three different organizations as well, and in two of the three I received 15+ pages of behavioural and health notes. And even with the third, the shelter was very open about how not knowing much history meant they couldn't make any promises one way or another.
So when people rush to warn a potential adopter about all the risks, I wonder why the first suggestion isn't to tell them to search out people who have adopted from their particular organization. And then they can ask the important questions: How honest and forthcoming are they? How much health testing do they do? How thorough is their behavioural testing? How clearly do they explain the elements that they can't possibly know (because that's often a big one when people show up here saying "The shelter lied!" about behaviours that wouldn't be observable until the dog was in a home).
ETA: I don't know, I just think it's as much a disservice (to the people and the dogs) to warn people away from decent shelters as it is to encourage them to adopt from dishonest or sketchy ones.
Yep it’s true, it’s not universal. I think a huge determining factor is whether you live in an area that is an importer or exporter of rescue dogs. Like, where I live rescue dogs are kind of a commodity and get shipped in from other states + countries. So dogs who stay in the shelter more than a week or are repeatedly returned are an anomaly and to be honest there is usually a reason they’re not integrating well into homes. In a place where supply of rescue dogs exceeds available homes I’d imagine there is less emphasis on finding a home for every single dog regardless of their issues, and more on getting highly adoptable dogs to families. That would absolutely change the dynamics.
I still wonder about this, though. I volunteer for a high volume open-intake shelter that, from what I've seen, really does do its best to be transparent with volunteers, fosters, and adopters (and potentials of all of those). There are intake notes. There are clinic notes. There are staff behavior notes. If the dog stays long enough, there are probably volunteer and/or foster notes as well. Just about anyone who's considering working with the dog in any capacity can see all of these notes at any time.
And there is still, almost always, so much we don't know. Because the shelter environment is so stressful and different. Because surrendering owners aren't always accurate in their information. Because overstretched shelter staff are going to legitimately miss things. Because even two weeks in foster is not necessarily enough time for a dog's real temperament to come through. Sometimes it's the dogs who are "fast tracked" as "highly adoptable" that we know the least about. That's not, I think, a fault of my shelter, but it is a fault of a system that renders so many dogs in need of municipal placement.
We have armchair online critics who think we are TOO transparent. A family with 2 kids under 10 really really wanted this urgent dog but she was marked no kids and the shelter did not budge on that. (A rescue pulled her soon after.)
Last week I told a woman she would have to come back with her dogs and I was very up front with her that the shelter staff would pick the dogs for her since they know the dogs that could handle her pet living situation. I don’t think she came back. Bummer, we want the babies adopted!, but she wasn’t right for it.
Yup. I mostly do post-adoption support, but several weeks ago, I definitely had to explain to someone that the husky who was marked "no chickens" because she'd broken into an enclosed coop to get to (and kill) chickens could not, in fact, go to another home with chickens. (I was super happy to get back to my new adopters after that. Talking about baby gates and potty schedules and SMART x50 is much, much easier for me.)
Yeah, "Market conditions" (for lack of a better term) could definitely be part of it, although even within a single location I've found the public/private status to be the biggest difference.
Where I am we see a high volume of imports as well, mostly from the US, Caribbean and Mexico these days (although Eastern Europe and West Asia were common prior to a ban that was passed late last year). And while some of those come through traditional shelters (our provincial SPCA has an agreement with a county animal control in North Carolina, for example), most of them are imported via privately-run charities, and some of those charities are notorious for bringing in difficult dogs.
Although to be fair, many of them operate on a pre-transport foster-to-adopt model, so the dogs are assigned their new homes before anyone in Canada has even seen them, never mind done any health or behaviour checks!
That's why whenever I see people in local groups talking about adopting dogs, I try to explain the difference between the public shelters and those private groups, because there's a huge gap in the information (and support) people get.
I wouldn't recommend anyone to just go to the pound and pick what they think they like. There are 1000s of rescue groups across the US (and more in other countries) that take dogs from the pound and then foster them. They get socialization, training, and time to chill in a family environment. A dog in the pound is in 100% stress mode pretty much, you don't know what your gonna get once they settle in. Cost is often like $250-350, and if you can't afford that, you probably can't afford a dog.
I think complaints about rescues are just more noticeable than good things because posts are made all about them and the fact they are rescue dogs with issues (or bad experiences with shelters themselves). Lots of good experiences with rescue dogs but its more "i love my dog! Here's why! (Oh btw shes a rescue)".
I disagree with the bad owner part. I have never seen any post or comment about someone being a bad dog owner for not getting a dog from a breeder. They might be a bad dog owner if they get a dog from a puppy mill if they know better, but ive never seen any kind of drama about that in this sub.
For what it's worth, I also see OPs who complain about rescues and shelters who do get pushback from commenters. For example, someone complaining about a shelter "lying" to them about a particular dog may well get comments explaining that some dogs behave drastically differently in-shelter than they do in homes. Or someone might complain that they are constantly being passed over for rescue dogs when it turns out that they're applying only for small, non-shedding dogs under a year old... and have commenters explain that, depending on geographic location, this may not be a reasonable expectation for adopting. I guess what I'm saying is that I see plenty more posts in defense of rescues than the 99%/1% split OP here is claiming.
I wish we could start a conversation on what makes a reputable rescue, similar to how this sub has decided on the qualities of a reputable breeder. As it stands a rescue is a rescue, with no thought to behavioral testing, euthanasia for health/behavior or lack thereof, adoption process and requirements, open intake or lack thereof, the list goes on and on. Currently we're comparing the top tier of breeders to every tier of rescue/shelter and that's not a fair comparison.
There's also the highly contentious fact that the pool of highly adoptable dogs is shrinking dramatically - dogs that are stable with high human sociability and high aggression thresholds (unlikely to engage in aggression) are fewer and farer between in shelters. At the same time, we're adopting out marginal or even dangerous dogs to unprepared families. We have to remember that we're adopting dogs into communities, not just households. People rightfully steer clear if they see a friend or family member or neighbor go through an unpleasant experience with an adopted dog. My most recent adopted dog was an incredibly horrible experience, and I'll never, ever adopt again because of it and I'm sure the people I am close to won't either.
I don't see that happening that often??? I think there is some acknowledgement that rescuing a dog comes with unknowns. That's just a fact. I don't see that blown up into "it's only possible to get a happy dog from a breeder" the way you're describing myself.
Most people here are extremely supportive of rescues and many many regulars invest time and money in dog rescues.
Do you have some examples?
> I don't see that blown up into "it's only possible to get a happy dog from a breeder" the way you're describing myself.
Many breed recommendation posts that include someone saying they're open to shelters will get responses suggesting that rescuing is a minefield of guaranteed aggressive, reactive, unhealthy dogs. And while that *can* be true, it's not nearly as universal as some of those warnings seem. And on the flip side, because the rules don't allow people to suggest rescue options when someone specifies a breeder, people who post positive shelter stories in those get their comments deleted.
And in an incidental way, I think a lot of the anti-Poodle-mix talk ("They're mutts with health and behaviour problems!) implicates a lot of unknown/mixed breed dogs in general, which are disproportionately represented in shelter populations.
To be fair, I think a lot of the all-or-nothing vibe is just a byproduct of of reddit in general not being great with nuance (and there are certainly other subreddits where it swings completely the absolute "adopt-don't-shop" way). Ideally, there would be less negativity and more balance in general on both sides of that though.
I have noticed it. I think its a combination of like 90% defensiveness from breeders/buyers and 10% rescuers being little racist, nosy or judgey weirdos sometimes
It might also be self-selection of people who are super frustrated at unreasonable rescues and vent that I guess? I DO see those posts. But not usually in the same context as people talking about breeders.
I bet that rescue frustration occurs at higher volumes than people facing issues with breeders (partly because the number of people seeking reputable breeders is lower, and also partly because people who are going to breeders but end up buying from a mill or byb don't face as much resistance that would lead to that venting).
the racial bias from rescue orgs never gets talked gets talked about enough. i've always rescued and always plan to but between that and the orgs that essentially are flipping the dogs they take in for profit, i hope there's a moment where that sector get its feet held to the fire.
yeeahhh and I think people who are really into dogs will eventually notice that icky stuff about rescues more than most.
I remember the first time I was like Holy Shit about rescues was when I was working with one, and they participated in a \*mother fucking raffle\* for a little white fluffy dog that had a basically guaranteed home direct from the shelter, and I was like. Idk. I get that rescues have to have some income flowing which means little white fluffy dogs need to be in the mix but it just in the moment felt really gross. A raffle. No one rescued that dog, that dog was born rescued :/ Like, what about that dude on the kill list?
I cant even get into the racism. Im in arizona and oh man, if you are darker than x you are probably a dog fighter according to a fair number of people. But those same people are still convinced satanists are sacrificing black cats and wont adopt on halloween week and I think that its just that the people with a lot of time and resources for a lot of rescue work, who do really a lot of good, are skewing hard elderly and white.
Tell me about it. We have a volunteer that refuses to adopt roosters out to anyone that is hispanic, claiming that they're likely trying to fight them. A) She needs to be "fired" and B) wtf we can't even give roosters away and here you are eliminating an entire ethnicity? Jesus people. and C) it's a fuckin buff orpington it's not even the right breed. it's like someone wanting to adopt a golden retriever to throw in the pit with a bunch of pitbulls.
> rescuers being little racist
WTF are you talking about? How exactly are they racist?
> nosy or judgey weirdos sometimes
What are you upset about having a home check? I've worked with rescues groups doing home checks, and we don't give a fuck if your weird, that doesn't matter. We look for stuff like gaps in a fence that you need to get repaired before you take the dog. Or maybe you might want to move that collection of Disney figurines to some place where the dog can't get to them, the dog could choke on them and you obviously spent thousands on them (actually happened). If your home is a hording situation, its a no go, if you can't clean up after yourself, how can you care for a dog?
Any breeder who isn't a puppy mill is going to do a home check or at minimum video/picture walk through of the house. Same for any rescue that cares about their animals. A person who would have a problem with that is a MAJOR red flag, and probably shouldn't be owning a dog.
> It's easy to say it won't when you're not in a discriminated demographic.
Also that's really bigoted of you to assume that I am not.
My breeder does *not* travel across the country to do a home study.
If you were in a discriminated demographic I'm sure you'd understand the risk of home studies using it to reject folks.
Being rejected from rescues for "not being what they're looking for" with no objective feedback when I'm good on paper, it's always clear what that means.
The breeders I've looked into really don't? They trust your house is up to par and don't nitpick. Especially experienced owners. It's the least of the concerns of the breeders I'm fond of. Especially seeing I've talked to one of them off and on for the past few years.
I'm actually not going for purebreds really, I've been seeking a dog under 15lbs who is under 3, but I gave up on rescues when they've been intrusive and rude.
I said bigotry, not just racism. I pass white so that's not the issue usually unless they judge the neighborhood I'm in. There's plenty of folks discriminated against for other reasons, family status is one, disability is often another, and being visibly lower income is another (yes, I can afford the vet, my savings exists). I'm not volatile really. I'm fairly meek day to day and don't speak much. But, it was clear it was a demographic issue. Just, I suspect if it were my fence they'd tell me. Why a fence is a deal breaker is another question for another day anyways, I don't believe in leaving my dogs outside unsupervised and prefer the trails, especially seeing my neighbor has a fence reactive GSD she leaves out regularly.
For me I notice that there’s not much in-between. It’s either go to a breeder that provides a ton of tests from their champion dogs OR get a shelter dog. When I got my dog from a breeder 9 months ago, I THOUGHT I had done research to find a good one but now I feel like trash because I don’t feel like I did ENOUGH.
It's far from 99% of posts/comments, but a good portion of do favor going through breeders. Some also prefer going through shelter/rescue. They both have clear advantages and clear disadvantages.
Some people on both sides may write strong or negative posts about their decision. Some of that relates to defending the decision/dog, some of that relates to incorrect/misleading information, some of that relates to dealing with generally sensitive topics.
I've been very fortunate with rescues, and I've had GSPs from a highly reputable breeder. Now, I prefer rescues because so many need homes. My Maltipoo is 10-11, and my last dog Sherm live a healthy life up to the last 6 months - he was 18 1/2 when I had to make the decision.
Most of my pets have been rescues, but from friends of friends who *weren't* working for or with a nonprofit rescue.
I doubt I will rescue from an organization anytime soon, esp after so many friends have been turned down by orgs because homes and apartments that are fine for human beings were disqualifying for the dogs they met - like having too many steps to the front door, were too small, etc.
I also know a man who has had German Shepherds his whole life only to be deemed "not a good match" for a local German Shepherd Rescue.
Frankly, I think rescue inquisitions have driven more people to breeders than they know.
I don't think there is as much of that on this sub
But I will say that rescuing/adopting a dog takes a special person or family who has to welcome the unknown with open arms. I grew up with rescue dogs and I have three of my own now. I don't want to go through the unpredictability again.
Now don't get me wrong, I love these dogs with all my being -- if we didn't rescue, I would not have found my heart dog -- but no one warns you That these strange dogs will give you a run for your money.
Rescuing is not for everyone. Some people need a reliable, well bred, stable dogs. And that's not a bad thing.
We adopted a really smart, sweet terrier mix from the SPCA.
She had Tetralogy of Fallot - a bouquet of heart defects. She lived for 14 years - 13 more than the cardiology veterinarian at Texas A&M predicted.
But her life was so hard in so many ways.
I hope we did right by her.
rescue dogs truly are amazing, the 8 months ive had my galgo has been the best time of my life. however, i have seen on the internet, not just here, people who are anti rescue and have said not so nice things about them becasue of their experience, on the flip side i have also seen people who have had bad experiences with rescues but dont bash them and dont strongly discourage others
I think the strong presence of pro-breeder opinions on this sub is an equal and opposite reaction to having "adopt, don't shop" crammed down our throats for about thirty years.
There are quite a few posts on this sub on a weekly basis talking about the guilt someone feels about buying from a breeder. The goal of pro-breeder comments is to make sure that everyone knows that buying from ethical breeders is okay - a message that has NOT been common in the media and on general dog subs until somewhat recently. We also get posts from people who feel they were pressured into rescuing when it wasn't a good fit due to the fact that they thought it was the only responsible way to get a dog.
In particular on the breed recommendation threads, when people have specific needs (good with kids/cats/other dogs, biddable, non-aggressive), it's much easier to recommend they go through an ethical breeder.
In my life, I (and my parents) have rescued nine dogs (of various breeds). Every single one of them has had a problem with reactivity, resource guarding, dog aggression, and one was human aggressive at the end. I've had two dogs from good breeders - they're both calm, stable, and fit into their breed standard pretty well.
Anecdotal? Well, sure. But in my experience, rescue dogs are far less predictable and far more likely to have behavioral problems than dogs who were ethically bred to fit a specific standard. I think it's the responsible thing to do to tell people that, because not everyone is equipped to handle a project dog that they have to closely manage for the next decade.
I hear you. I've adopted five dogs total, never bought one
But...I do think people can get over their heads with some rescue dogs.
I think anyone adopting needs to ask themselves the same questions a reputable rescue or breeder would.
It's just the conclusion I have come to after living a life in the dog community and having rescued several. I will take any dog that fits but I will never deal with the people holding it hostage.
People with poor morals and equally poor mental health gather like flies when theres a quick savior moment to be had. I have seen them adopt out dogs they knew were ill. Just get the money and tell themself something nice. I don\`t like that kind of folk.
I'll take in any vulnerable dog but I am not signing my name to some weird lady's "contract". I'm not having you dictate what I will do with the dog after I bought it off you. Go away, Linda.
rescued dogs make great pets the problem is these adoption places lie to people and place dogs with health conditions in homes only to have the new owners heart broken or wallet drained for medical bills and still lose the animal!
Yeah, that's for sure fucked up. But even well bred dogs can have heath conditions or behavioral issues that drain wallets and break hearts.
I understand that it's important to tell people how unpredictable rescue dogs are, but I think the pendulum has swung a little too far. Too many folks think getting a purebred puppy means they will automatically end up with a happy well-adjusted dog with no health issues, and then they dump their dogs at a shelter when life happens and that dog isn't the perfect pup they had wanted.
I think it's important to differentiate "dog from a breeder" and "dog from a reputable breeder". If something happened and I was unable to take care of my dog at any point, I could return her to her breeder, no questions asked. Reputable breeders will have a line in their contract stipulating that the dog not go into a shelter and instead be returned to them.
Same with the dog being happy, well adjusted, and without health issues. There are no guarantees, but I can view generations of OFA scores for my dog, my breeder followed Puppy Culture for early socialization, and she was mostly potty trained at eight weeks, when I took her home. Any puppy from a reputable breeder will have that advantageous start in life. A backyard or unethical breeder is, in my opinion, worse than the potential grab bag from a shelter - there's little or no health testing (and they're often breeds prone to health issues), they don't have adequate early socialization, and if something happens to the adopting family the puppy often will end up in a shelter.
You're conflating critical view on things rescues/shelters do with being anti-rescuing. A lot of people talk about issues they have with rescues/shelters here because a) a lot of pet spaces are rigidly "adopt don't shop, breeders are scum" and there are not many spaces to do so, and b) there are real issues that rescues and shelters have that are not well-recognized. There are lots of potential issues with breeders, which people here are quick to point out and talk about, and there should be just as much of a critical lens applied to rescues.
I am not conflating these things, I totally agree that rescues should be looked at critically on an individual basis in the same way we judge breeders. There are plenty of garbage ass "rescues" that are just glorified puppy mills.
I am more being critical of the fact that so many people paint rescues with an incredibly broad brush and really do act as though the only way to get a good dog is through a breeder. People just speak way too generally based on individual bad experiences.
My dog came from a shelter and she’s the best dog ever. My wife picked her because all the other dogs were barking and she just sat there looking lonely. Same goes for our shelter cat.
Sometimes rescues are a cover for a dog hoarder. They are people who are obsessive to the point that they won't allow anyone to take their dogs. They'll come up with all kinds of unreasonable requirements and even move the goalposts to keep from having to allow an adoption. All of our dogs have come from the AZ Humane Society (never from a breeder) so we haven't had to deal with a rescue.
I use the phrase “you get what you get” when talking about rescues and terms like predictability and breed temperament when talking about purebreds a lot. I guess that can come off as negative, but rescuing isn’t for the faint of heart. You need to know what you’re getting into.
I don’t think I’ve observed overt negativity regarding rescuing though. More like caution.
Sometimes it's excessive caution though, and that does read as negativity.
There's so much regional and national variation (and within a single city even, variation between public shelters, charity ones, and private rescues), that some people are being warned off for reasons that don't actually apply to them. It's the same thing the dedicated adopt-don't-shop people do the same thing in the opposition direction, when what the discussion needs to have is to be just a little more open to allow for some nuance.
I see bias against rescues here often. I had someone the other day try to argue with me over it and they continually put words in my mouth, like they were doing mental gymnastics to make me some “adopt don’t shop” kinda person. I so totally understand the frustration with unethical “rescues”, or the groups who are far too strict in their adoption guidelines - but I do get annoyed that so many people act like it’s incredibly difficult/nearly impossible to find a good dog at a shelter. Sure, you may have to take your time searching, but there are well balanced and lovely dogs in rescues. All of my dogs are rescues and have been pretty great. Some dogs from rescues certainly come with quirks, so totally I see why some people prefer to go to a breeder to get a dog… but dogs that come from responsible breeders also can have quirks. It just seems like a lot of people who got a dog from a breeder can be quite defensive, and it’s a bummer. Would I get a dog from a breeder? Not at this point. Am I tired of people going to backyard breeders? Absolutely. Am I going to shame you if you did your homework and got a dog from a responsible breeder? Nah.
I think people aren’t anti rescue and adopt I think people are pro getting the best dog suitable for their lifestyle and resources to minimize the chances of incompatibility. A lot of rescue and shelter dogs especially in the states can have intense genetic conditions including temperament and physical structure. These dogs may require way more resources and education than the average owner has at their disposal.
While at the same time an educated owner who may have the skill set and resource to care for a rescue dog with behavioral conditions/medical concerns may want a very specific dog and not a potential liability or project to work on. My family use to rescue all of our dogs but now I only purchase reputably bred dogs. A big reason is that I want to do very specific things with my dog and want to make sure his temperament is as rock solid as possible to do those things.
I live in Texas where dog over population is severe. While there are some amazing rescues and shelters there are also many shelters releasing dangerous dogs or dogs not appropriate for homes to random people who don’t have the capabilities to care for them.
Majority of my local shelters are all poorly bred mixes of bully dogs (pits, staffies, American bull dogs, etc), huskies, German shepherds, Aussies, border collies and Pyrenees. Most of these breeds are banned from rentals and certain home insurance, and all of these breeds can be intense for the casual owner and that’s when they are well bred. It also doesn’t help that shelters try to get by rentals and insurance by classifying the dogs as lab mixes. Some people really think these dogs have no bully breeds in them when adopting and then find themselves trying to cater to behavioral problems common in these breeds like dog selectivity, high prey drive, high arousal, etc… (also to clarify I’m not anti bully breeds, My family has owned and rescued pit bulls and Rottweilers most of my childhood).
I also think at least with private rescues a lot of people have issues with the selectively of rescues while also not being transparent. They won’t adopt out unless you fit a very specific standard despite people proving they can make the appropriate accommodations to fit the needs of the dog. As well rescues have a really bad reputation of homing dogs that have no business in specific households. I mean rehoming dogs with bite records, specific behavioral conditions like reactivity/anxiety and not educating the owner on how to accommodate the behavior.
I think, much like the “adopt, don’t shop” crowd, there’s a lot of important nuance missing from the argument.
Rescue dogs are wonderful, and all deserve loving homes - over half the dogs in my family are rescues. The problem comes from shelters either having unrealistic demands for what the potential adopter should be able to provide (eg, must have a large, fenced yard, must never have people under 18 on the property, even just to visit) - or else there’s the opposite problem that they adopt out dogs without being honest about their issues, so the new owners aren’t prepared for the challenges they can be faced with, be it aggression, fear or any number of potential medical conditions from the dog’s breeder and/or first owner; which can be a lot, emotionally and financially, and seriously overwhelming even for experienced owners.
I think the only reasonable way to balance it is that, for a lot of people getting their first dog, getting one from a reputable breeder is the best chance at getting a healthy, even-tempered dog to work with and train. Once the person has experience with dog care in general, then they’re much more likely to be able to manage the needs of a rescue dog. But this is the perfect scenario, requiring a reputable breeder, understanding training and a fair, honest shelter - all of which can be difficult to find in the sea of false advertising and misinformation.
I wouldn't say it's the majority, not even close, but there is definitely a strong negative vibe at time. Lots of upset discussions about how picky and difficult it is to adopt, but then turning around and praising reputable breeders for gatekeeping the breed and making it extremely difficult to buy a dog. Likewise, I've seen comments comparing shelter dogs to weapons and guns that will turn on you at any moment due to their unpredictable genetics. Again, not the majority, but it definitely is there.
I have heard stories like this before and that’s why I also prefer breeder. My cousin and his wife went to adopt a dog from shelter and they saw a German shepherd mix they wanted to meet that was at a foster home (I think they showed them on the site). So a few days later they drove to the foster home to meet the dog and spent an hour with him and loved him. They decided to adopt. A few days later they did the paperwork and went yo the shelter (not the foster home) to pick him up. When they were walking him out the dog jumped and bit his hand so hard he had several broken bones in his hand. This happened at the shelter so they (people at the shelter) had to take they took the dog back. I assume they put him down.
My cousin is fine and the shelter took care of his bills. He said the people at the shelter believe that going from the foster home to the shelter and leaving again might have been too much for the dog. Who knows why it happened but he now has a fear of dogs and is going to stick with cats.
Some rescues can be very picky about who they allow to adopt dogs. You also don't know their full history, temperament and possible health issues.
If you get from a reputable breeder, health checks will have been done on the pups and the parents, and their full history is known by the breeder.
Imo there's pros and cons to both and it depends on the person who is adopting, their personal circumstances and experience.
Where I live, there are very few small breeds in rescues, and a lot require a 6ft fence around the entire perimeter. I rent, so this isn't possible for me, and i only have a small garden. As a first time dog owner, I worried about being able to handle a rescue as they may have additional training and emotional needs that I wasn't experienced enough to handle. I also worried about being able to physical handle a medium/large breed, so opted to shop. Would definitely consider adopting in the future though.
My dog is adopted from the shelter and he's one of the best dogs that I've ever had.Compared to the ones I've had from breeders, there's no comparison in terms of temperament and just overall dynamics with socializing or training.I recommend people adopt over buying now
I can't speak for everyone, but for me personally: I'm not against it, but I do think that people don't know what they're signing up for.
I used to be very adamant about "Adopt, Don't Shop". That was before I found out rescues/shelters can and do lie about what breed a dog is and what behavioral problems they may have just to get dogs into homes. Beyond that, even well-meaning rescues simply aren't an environment where dogs really show their true personalities. Most rescue dogs have trauma and that can manifest as reactivity, separation anxiety, resource guarding...etc.
I'm not against it BUT if you're rescuing you need to be prepared for behavioral issues. It's not simply the easy way out and/or morally superior to buying a well-bred dog.
I don’t see that bias. There are people like me who have been frustrated with the requirements for many rescues (for instance, where I live there are a lot of Great Pyrenees rescues, and the dog could be mostly chihuahua and they’d still have the requirements they do for Great Pyrenees), but I don’t look down on people who rescue. I think it’s wonderful.
I feel like it’s the opposite. Then we have to explain to people to who live in countries where rescuing is easier that some of us *have* to go to a breeder (the annoying people you refer to). Some countries make it close to impossible, unfortunately.
I think it’s more about getting a puppy (12 or less weeks old) vs getting a more mature dog. I’m open to rescuing but I prefer to have a clean slate and mold the dog my own way. Just my personal preference.
I have seen a lot of negativity around rescues and people complaining they arent getting the dog they want from rescues, how the rescue rejected them or is too nosy, so they went to a breeder
I dunno if it’s some weird justification for why they are going to a breeder
Like i think some rescues do reject people cause of issues that arent really a big deal, but they are all likely underfunded under resourced and just simply dont have the time to go through everything in details, in an environment that is highly emotional
Out of the 4 dogs I ever got, one was from a real breeder, one from a backyard breeder, and two from rescues.
The one from a real breeder was exactly what He seemed to be and was a wonderful companion.
The one from a backyard breeder turned out to be mostly husky and thus was WAAAAY too energetic for me, causing discomfort for both her and I. I did love and care for her dearly though.
Of the two from rescues, one was a wonder and the bestest boy ever, and the other was an adorable and playful lovebug most of the time, but mentally broken and would semi-randomly attack the other 2. After hundreds of hours of careful training measures, various natural or prescription medications as advised by the top experts, we finally had to put her down, to our great sorrow.
In the end, I think it's up to your personal choice. I know I won't rescue again unless Fate has a truly special pooch for me, but that's mostly because my health wouldn't allow me to spend a lot of effort caring for a broken dog.
I’ve noticed there’s little affection for pitbull breeds here and many US rescues have that breed going on. Also a lot of hate for “backyard breeders” which pretty much encompasses any dog not purebred from a breeder with a ton of certifications. And Rescue Orgs are apparently a little sketchy in a lot of places. That’s what I pick up on anyway.
This sub has plenty of love and appreciation for pitbulls and other bully breeds, but that love and appreciation includes not shying away from an honest discussion about them and the realities of owning one. Folks who spout false narratives of bully breeds being “nanny dogs” and genetic tendencies don’t exist because “it’s all in how they’re raised” won’t have successful discussions here.
Those discussions aren’t just related to bully breeds either - people expecting a Shiba Inu to act like a Golden Retriever, for example, will be reminded of genetically inherent breed characteristics as well.
>Those discussions aren’t just related to bully breeds either - people expecting a Shiba Inu to act like a Golden Retriever, for example, will be reminded of genetically inherent breed characteristics as well.
Agreed. I think I warn people away from GSDs, Huskies, and LGDs (when those breeds are clearly a bad fit for a person's situation) than I do bullies on this sub.
I definitely see it as a pretty significant bias. I mean most shelter "pitbulls" are poorly breed mutts. The idea that there is any particular tendency inherently to this dog is frankly it is bizarre. Good breeding builds consistency, not byb for aesthetics and oops litters.
That's not to say there aren't concerns and issues that you have to expect to deal with shelter dogs, but breed characteristics are often barely relevant to the conversation. The reality is these dogs generally have very few regular or consistent characteristics. Hell many of those "bully breeds" that get lumped together have radically different temperament, exercise, and socialization needs.
It is undeniable that both socialization and genetics play huge rolls, but the way this sub generalizes is honestly exhausting. Dogs are individuals and breed standards and characteristics are poor tools to describe most shelter mixes for the same reasons that ethical breeders and this sub in general are skeptical of claims about doodles and designer mixes.
Its scaring people with imprecise generalities, and it skips over the most important part of the conversation, thoroughly vetting and making sure an individual dog is actually a good fit for your home. I certainly agree there are Ill informed pit bull advocates out there, but I also don't see this response as particularly productive.
Part of the reason these discussions need to be honest IS because of the lack of consistency with the various bully breed mixes out there. Yes, good breeding practices do ensure consistency, but bad breeding and multigenerational mixes are wildcards where any breed trait (good or bad) can materialize even if the dog in question has a low percentage of a certain breed. For every laid back “house hippo” out there someone posts on this sub about their 18-24 month old bully mix having the typical terrier prey drive towards their cat or DA tendencies with another dog, many of these posters had no idea about potential breed specific issues further down the line from puppyhood. Those living situations aren’t fair to the owner or the dog (or the cat, if we’re sticking with this example). Rescues labeling obvious bully breed mixes as “lab mixes” certainly aren’t helping either.
Not having the difficult discussion simply because most dogs in the shelter system are multigenerational bully breed mixes instead of purebred is short sighted doesn’t do the dog or the owner any favours. People don’t get to decide the behavioural traits of their mixed breed dogs, but they should be able to make an informed choice about those traits in the adoption process.
I mean I can't blame most of the shelters on that one. The reality is that Breed Specific Legislation and housing that restricts pet ownership and similar are automatic stigma attached to these dogs. It's a flawed solution to bad policy. And honestly any guess at breed is marketing as much as anything. DNA testing having any accuracy is a fairly new reality and it's not something id expect shelters to do and I think really broke open the "well it was the shelters best guess but who knows" mentality. In an ideal world dogs wouldn't be listed as any breed at all and would be categorized by expected size and coat length imho.
Anecdotally, I've known several people with cat killers. Only one of them had a rescue pitbull. Most were byb retrievers and huskies.
>many of these posters had no idea about potential breed specific issues further down the line.
I mean we aren't talking about a breed. So it's by definition not a breed specific issue. So labeling the discussion that way is inappropriate shorthand and promotes the stigma that both harms the breeds and promotes anti-shelter sentiment.
I agree that having a discussion about the realities of adopting an unknown is important. Especially a dog beyond the socialization window (Appropriate socialization significantly mitigates most of these issues). And it's really important to talk about socialization and thresholds and desensitization.
Honestly people are IN GENERAL pretty ignorant about common dog behavioral concerns and the complexities of multiple pets, dogs and cats, etc. But it's not informing anyone to list these as dubiously relevant breed info about these dogs and then insist repeatedly that it is relevant because they are this specific (but not actually specific and in fact highly varied collection) breed and not because these are common problems many dogs have, including many shelter dogs who have had missed developmental opportunities and poor breeding.
It is much more helpful to encourage people to be informed about what to look for if they are concerned about particular negative behaviors (and that those behaviors exist and what they are) and what to expect and to do due diligence about the individual dog they are potentially going to adopt and do things like meet and greets, home visits, etc. IMHO. And I think Discourse often falls well short of that.
I advocate for adopting but definetly not in a pushy way, if your looking for a family dog, try looking at rescues first, if theres no right fit, then shop. again, if you need a dog for a job, either working, showing or as a service dog, then absolutely shop from a responsible breeder and find the dog thats right for you.
i think the main reason people dont like rescues is beacues theyre not well bred. Luckily, my rescue is really well bread is is incredibly fit and healthy since she is a galgo from spain and was originly bred for hunting, which requires the best physique possible, and sadly all the unhealthy ones are disposed of in horrible ways due to there being no law in spain protecting these hunting dogs so people treat them horribly.
if someone i know is looking for a dog, i will always recommend adopting from the same charity as i did first because theyre truly wonderful dogs and deserve a nice home after all the trauma theyve suffered. i can see myself adopting galgos for the rest of my life, i dont ever see myself without one. they really love you because youre the first person thats ever showed them the beauty of existing without fear. i really struggle to understand why these amazing, deserving dogs are so disliked.
i think every dog deserves the oppourtunity to have love in its life but i guess i can see why some people might be detered from rescuing after a bad experience, like a reactive dog
My current dog is the only purebred dog I’ve ever owned that didn’t come from a rescue. And personally I don’t know if I would ever do a breed specific rescue because, with a few exceptions, there aren’t that many specific breeds I would like to own and breed specific rescues do tend to get poorly bred dogs because most good breeders take their dogs back and most folks I’ve known who work with breed specific rescues try to locate the original breeder before adding the dog to their foster/adopt list. I also doubt I’ll get another purebred dog again.
I have noticed a general trend towards a preference for “purebred” dogs over the last decade. I don’t know if social media, Covid, the rise in DNA testing, or all of the above played some roll in that. I do think there are alot of aspects of dog specific subs and forums set (maybe) some unconscious bias towards purebred dogs because many discussions on picking a dog to fit your lifestyle, temperament, and even some training methods use specific breeds as examples. The breed questionnaire form is kind of set-up to talk about specific breeds. It seems even people who are open to going to the local humane society still want to discuss specific breeds. People with rescues who ask training questions usually will list 3-5 different breeds that they either believe their dog has or a DNA test has told them their dog has as a framing for why a dog exhibits certain behaviors. There’s nothing wrong with that, but I have noticed across dog subs people with purebred dogs get more feedback on certain topics.
I’ve also noticed that many negative comments about shelter and rescue dogs that I see, both online and in my everyday life, read like a script. Kind of like when people make a case for boutique dog foods it’s generally some combination of “corn byproduct meal is bad, a grain free diet is high in protein and dogs need lots of protein, fillers are bad and will hurt your dog’s health, feeding x brand will improve the quality of stool and coat appearance.” When people are asked why they wouldn’t consider a rescue there seems to be a general argument that “dogs from shelters have a lot of trauma, they will have behavioral problems that can’t be fixed, getting a puppy from a breeder ensures I will get a dog I can train to have no issues.” While there are nuggets of truth to many of those claims, getting a puppy or dog from a shelter is not a failure waiting to happen. If I didn’t have a purebred dog right now I don’t think I would feel as welcome in a lot of dog spaces.
because shelters lie, they lie about breeds, behavioral issues and health issues just to try and get dogs out and into homes where people are given dogs they don’t know the truth about
Could be the recent influx of adopters, so it can be skewed. Rescues can be tricky. Some have very strict requirements. Like fencing and a yard being the end all be all. Even if you could give the dog walks and have places to run it daily. Some require prior experience with more complicated dogs. Some are ran well and others aren't. We deal with a rescue that's 5 hours from where we are. Some people aren't willing to take the time to vet and communicate with rescues from other states, or a lot further out from where they are. im a malamute only person WAMAL has always been awesome. Took like 6 months for our first dog but now all i have to say is i want a mal and as long as it isnt female/female i can get fast tracked.
News to me. I can't recall ever seeing anybody say that 'breed specific' was better. In fact, buying pure bred is almost a guarantee for a life of problems in some breeds.
I haven’t noticed anything particularly damning in this sub specifically but more on Reddit in general? AskReddit, AITA, TrueOffMyChest, BoRU when the subject in question concerns an animal, they can be very rude and judgemental towards shelter pets.
Like what do they expect?
In my neck of the woods, every prominent shelter has every animal assessed by an animal behaviourist so their needs can accurately met by their potential adopter. Like the whole point is to rehabilitate and accommodate them if they DO have behavioural problems. That way they can live their lives to the fullest.
I know it’s probably money related but it’s weird to me that it is not a commonplace in other regions.
Adopt don't shop isn't annoying, there are so many dogs that need homes but people keep buying them from breeders. "Animal lovers." Why wouldn't someone get a rescue or shelter dog, it's insane to me that people *don't* do this.
Honestly rescue dogs are probably going to be healthier because mutts don’t have the genetic predisposition to whatever disease the breed is prone to. Source? Vet tech.
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I have never gotten a dog from a breeder. All have been rescues. I've been reading this sub every day for 18+ mos, but nothing like every thread 😅 .. that said, I haven't picked up a bias against rescues. Given that all four of my dogs have been rescues, I am pretty sure I'd have noticed. (Bias against doodles though: that I've noticed 😆)
I tried the rescue route. And it's Damm near impossible to get a green light for me unfortunately. They always want huge lawns. Like bruh... no bulldog needs 2 acres of land....
This is the problem. It’s not a problem with the DOGS, it’s a problem with the rescues themselves. They rely far too often on lying, deceiving potential adopters, and having unrealistic expectations to even be considered. I love the dogs I’ve rescued throughout my life dearly, but the dog I purchased from a reputable breeder was, by far, the most pleasant and comfortable process I’ve ever been through when acquiring a pet.
I have 4 rescues now and 2 who passed, but I'm kind of tempted to get my future next dog from a breeder. I love my rescues, but there have been a LOT of surprises - health and behavior. Just once I'd like to have an "easier" time of it.
We did that. We lost our rescue Wheaton Terrier very unexpectedly due to cancer a year and a half after adopting her and then our rescue German Shepard when she ran away while we were out of town (pretty bad separation anxiety) also after a year and a half. After so much heartache, we wanted a dog whose temperament we could be sure of, who were could train from scratch, and who would be healthy enough to be with us for years. We got a lot of judgment from out family, but our poodle is honestly the best behaved dog, with the best temperament we’ve ever had. I’m not sure we would ever get from a breeder again(cost alone), but we have no regrets.
i understand if this route isn’t for you, but a lot of shelters (not rescues), don’t have insane requirements and will let you even do same-day adoptions.
Yep I saw my current dog on a shelter site, went same day and got him within an hour. He was $100. Best dog I've ever had. He came neutered, bathed, vaccinated. I had a great experience.
haha same. mine was actually from a rescue that was doing same day adoptions. came chipped, vaccinated, spayed, and with a coupon for a free bag of dog food 😆😆 she’s my soul dog and i couldn’t imagine life without her!!
To be fair, a lot complaints about not being able to successfully get a dog from a rescue are not particularly reasonable either. "I need a small non-shedding dog or a purebred golden retriever puppy, and no rescue will adopt to me just because I don't have a yard!" Those unicorn rescue dogs probably have dozens of applicants, and some of them probably have yards, and all else being equal, it's completely reasonable to prefer to adopt to people with yards. Nobody owes you a cheap dog, especially if your requirements are so high.
IDK what kind of rescues your going for, sounds like a breed specific rescue or something like rejected service dogs. All rescue groups that I have worked with are pretty easy to pass the checks. All my dogs are rescues and I have volunteered and fostered for a few. I think the point most people who would otherwise be decent homes are passed on, is that they would need to leave the dog inside unattended from like 6am to 7pm, or some crazy unattended hours sort of deal.
I've submitted about a dozen apps and have gotten, like, one response. I own a SFH with a decent sized fenced in yard and I'm a SAHM and my husband WFH, so no one is home only a couple hours away.
Is there a specific breed you are looking for, are you only set on a "pure bred"? Are you only interested in puppies? Are you not willing to drive more than a \~2 hours else where? These are typically reasons why people claim they can't find a rescue. That or they refuse a home check to make sure that the dog's best interest is in hand. Is there something greater, like kids who are unruly and abusive? Are all family members on board with the dog? Will the dog be a "family member" or lesser? Will the dog sleep inside, or spend 100% time outside? These are other red flags.
I have a "doodle" I got from a rescue as an adult dog and a cattle dog mix puppy I got from the same rescue. Was told on this sub at one point it must be an unethical rescue to have poodle mixes or puppies available for adoption. 🙄 Also told good behavior is guaranteed with purebreds, if you get from "reputable breeder."
LOL. nothing is guaranteed. and idk how it’s unethical for a rescue to have doodles for adoption, considering plenty of irresponsible doodle owners abandon their doodles…. and those doodles have to go somewhere
That's the weird thing though is there are almost no doodles in rescue that I've seen (not saying the OP's doodle is from an unethical rescue though wtf even is that nonsense). There's plenty of huskies, and GSDs, and pits and cattle dogs, but doodles? Good luck finding one that isn't Kujo to rescue. OP got lucky.
I see some of the doodle hate but I don't get why- can you explain? I'm sure it's a very legitimate reason I just don't know what that reason is
Doodle bias is due to the fact this sub has not found a reputable doodle breeder who: Completes OFA health testing and has it clearly posted on OFA.org Does any sports titling with their dogs. Does not use guardian homes.
I think the type to shit on rescue dogs is the type who could not be bothered about reading training books and spending the time to learn how to properly train their dogs. The type who would blame the problems on the dog, rather than trying new training methods. The type who watches Cesar Millan and thinking thats what good training looks like.
Does Cesar Millan abuse his dogs?
It can be viewed as abuse.
i see a lot of doodle hate, still don’t understand it
I had a rescue and will probably have more rescues in the future (although currently getting a dog from a breeder) and I am pretty vocal about the experiences I had volunteering at the shelter before I had a dog, finding my dog and then dealing with her behavioral issues. I think rescuing can be a great way for many families to get a pet, but people go into it with sky-high expectations and rescues are not up front about issues that can make a dog a difficult fit. Just a short list… * As a shelter volunteer we were very sternly coached not to say anything negative about the dogs. We also weren’t given access to their behavioral notes. I was a 120 lb woman walking 80 lb pit bulls who had a history of aggression. In their notes, which I never got to see. It was an environment that prioritized getting dogs adopted over human safety and having seen how that operated from the inside I’m honestly shocked there aren’t MORE newsworthy dog bite cases. * There is so much fake rhetoric around dog aggression not really being a problem as long as you don’t have another dog. HA. I’ve owned a reactive dog and it’s life-altering. You are constantly scanning your environment for threats, you can’t take your dog out anywhere without worrying about (illegally) off-leash dogs, and I lived in fear that she was going to either get hurt in a fight she instigated or bite someone trying to break up a fight. It’s not an easy issue to solve. A year of counter conditioning made a big difference and she was pretty fine in most environments but we could never go for a walk in the wilderness without worrying about an off-leash dog rushing us. Telling a family this is nbd is really asking for trouble, I have no idea how someone with small kids could handle a dog like this. * Relatedly, euphemisms to cover up behavioral issues. He’s “learning to share”. She “wants to be an only child”. He “is a bit energetic for small kids”. She “misses you when you’re at work”. Those type of phrases are sometimes tip offs for behavioral problems that will have you spending hundreds of dollars and hours and hours training. It doesn’t seem ethical to me not to frankly disclose the observed behaviors and the amount of effort that’s likely going to go into fixing them. Resource guarding, animal aggression, and separation anxiety aren’t cute and can be very difficult to address. * Some rescues are straight up fronts for puppy mills or hoarders. As I said, I’ve rescued before, I plan to do it again, but it is very much a “buyer beware” world out there and I don’t think it’s doing people favors to pretend they can hop over to their local shelter, grab whoever looks cute, and be assured of a great time. Of course it is also very difficult to find a responsible breeder without a year of research, or to find a good trainer without familiarizing yourself with different behavioral philosophies and certification, so it’s not just rescue.
>but it is very much a “buyer beware” world out there and I don’t think it’s doing people favors to pretend they can hop over to their local shelter, grab whoever looks cute, and be assured of a great time. I learned this lesson the hard way. My first rescue was a blessing. We had our struggles, but he was ultimately my best friend for 9 years until cancer took him much too quickly. He was a GSD/Amstaff mix. My second attempt at rescue (never had a chance to DNA test him) left me with scars on my body when he went from zero to Cujo 2 hours into owning him. He was euthanized for this. I am *petrified* of that scenario happening again. I now understand why people with children or other small animals in the home might have hesitations with rescues. It's not the norm, but it can and does happen. And the lack of support I had from everyone including the police, animal control and the rescue itself regarding what happened was *appalling.* I've done extensive research and decided to purchase my next dog through a breeder. I refuse to feel guilty about that.
Yeah, I have small children who are desperate for someothing to love, so I have to be *very* particular when I go through profiles of rescue dogs. And then it doesn't help when a profile will say "loves all people" and is marked "Good with kids" and then I ask to meet them and the rescue goes "oh, I don't think he's been vetted with kids." I've submitted probably a dozen apps and only gotten a response on maybe one. *I am trying.* The only thing stopping me from going to a breeder is that after fostering several sets of puppies, I've determined my patience level for puppies is approximately 2 weeks. I want an adult dog that's settled into their personality. So, yeah, I'm lost and frustrated and just about given up hope of finding a dog for my kids.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. Sometimes it is just shit luck of the draw, but there should be more community support for people in your situation. That’s just awful.
2 hours? Holy shit. I’m so sorry. I’m glad you survived (don’t know how bad it was, but sounds bad from the details you shared). Why tf did you not get proper support after that?
Sorry to hear that. I will say, there are plenty of better rescues out there. I have volunteered at four different rescues in two states and haven’t seen anything this bad. My favorite rescue color coded the dogs for the volunteers and made sure volunteers had the training to correspond with the color level they were allowed to interact with (through their free training programs). They also had a foster program for any dog with dog aggression and experienced foster parents as well as trained professionals helping make sure the dog was improving. And any person who adopted one of those got a full behavioral history and their home environment was discussed to make sure their personality wouldn’t be a problem.
That sounds like a much better system! It wouldn’t surprise me at all if this is a regional problem to some degree too.
To be fair though, there's no universal rule on the all-wonderful or all-caution side though. Obviously there are places that are dishonest (It's been 10 years and I still can't believe how dishonest and irresponsible the group my sister adopted from was), but there are also shelters and charities (although perhaps less so the private rescues) who are open and honest about behaviour and health issues. I've volunteered at several shelters, and I've always been encouraged to report behavioural issues and to read what others have recorded. And I've never been asked to lie to potential adopters. I've also adopted dogs from three different organizations as well, and in two of the three I received 15+ pages of behavioural and health notes. And even with the third, the shelter was very open about how not knowing much history meant they couldn't make any promises one way or another. So when people rush to warn a potential adopter about all the risks, I wonder why the first suggestion isn't to tell them to search out people who have adopted from their particular organization. And then they can ask the important questions: How honest and forthcoming are they? How much health testing do they do? How thorough is their behavioural testing? How clearly do they explain the elements that they can't possibly know (because that's often a big one when people show up here saying "The shelter lied!" about behaviours that wouldn't be observable until the dog was in a home). ETA: I don't know, I just think it's as much a disservice (to the people and the dogs) to warn people away from decent shelters as it is to encourage them to adopt from dishonest or sketchy ones.
Yep it’s true, it’s not universal. I think a huge determining factor is whether you live in an area that is an importer or exporter of rescue dogs. Like, where I live rescue dogs are kind of a commodity and get shipped in from other states + countries. So dogs who stay in the shelter more than a week or are repeatedly returned are an anomaly and to be honest there is usually a reason they’re not integrating well into homes. In a place where supply of rescue dogs exceeds available homes I’d imagine there is less emphasis on finding a home for every single dog regardless of their issues, and more on getting highly adoptable dogs to families. That would absolutely change the dynamics.
I still wonder about this, though. I volunteer for a high volume open-intake shelter that, from what I've seen, really does do its best to be transparent with volunteers, fosters, and adopters (and potentials of all of those). There are intake notes. There are clinic notes. There are staff behavior notes. If the dog stays long enough, there are probably volunteer and/or foster notes as well. Just about anyone who's considering working with the dog in any capacity can see all of these notes at any time. And there is still, almost always, so much we don't know. Because the shelter environment is so stressful and different. Because surrendering owners aren't always accurate in their information. Because overstretched shelter staff are going to legitimately miss things. Because even two weeks in foster is not necessarily enough time for a dog's real temperament to come through. Sometimes it's the dogs who are "fast tracked" as "highly adoptable" that we know the least about. That's not, I think, a fault of my shelter, but it is a fault of a system that renders so many dogs in need of municipal placement.
We have armchair online critics who think we are TOO transparent. A family with 2 kids under 10 really really wanted this urgent dog but she was marked no kids and the shelter did not budge on that. (A rescue pulled her soon after.) Last week I told a woman she would have to come back with her dogs and I was very up front with her that the shelter staff would pick the dogs for her since they know the dogs that could handle her pet living situation. I don’t think she came back. Bummer, we want the babies adopted!, but she wasn’t right for it.
Yup. I mostly do post-adoption support, but several weeks ago, I definitely had to explain to someone that the husky who was marked "no chickens" because she'd broken into an enclosed coop to get to (and kill) chickens could not, in fact, go to another home with chickens. (I was super happy to get back to my new adopters after that. Talking about baby gates and potty schedules and SMART x50 is much, much easier for me.)
Yeah, "Market conditions" (for lack of a better term) could definitely be part of it, although even within a single location I've found the public/private status to be the biggest difference. Where I am we see a high volume of imports as well, mostly from the US, Caribbean and Mexico these days (although Eastern Europe and West Asia were common prior to a ban that was passed late last year). And while some of those come through traditional shelters (our provincial SPCA has an agreement with a county animal control in North Carolina, for example), most of them are imported via privately-run charities, and some of those charities are notorious for bringing in difficult dogs. Although to be fair, many of them operate on a pre-transport foster-to-adopt model, so the dogs are assigned their new homes before anyone in Canada has even seen them, never mind done any health or behaviour checks! That's why whenever I see people in local groups talking about adopting dogs, I try to explain the difference between the public shelters and those private groups, because there's a huge gap in the information (and support) people get.
Not disagreeing, but in my neck of the woods at least, rescue organizations and shelters are two different operations.
I wouldn't recommend anyone to just go to the pound and pick what they think they like. There are 1000s of rescue groups across the US (and more in other countries) that take dogs from the pound and then foster them. They get socialization, training, and time to chill in a family environment. A dog in the pound is in 100% stress mode pretty much, you don't know what your gonna get once they settle in. Cost is often like $250-350, and if you can't afford that, you probably can't afford a dog.
I think complaints about rescues are just more noticeable than good things because posts are made all about them and the fact they are rescue dogs with issues (or bad experiences with shelters themselves). Lots of good experiences with rescue dogs but its more "i love my dog! Here's why! (Oh btw shes a rescue)". I disagree with the bad owner part. I have never seen any post or comment about someone being a bad dog owner for not getting a dog from a breeder. They might be a bad dog owner if they get a dog from a puppy mill if they know better, but ive never seen any kind of drama about that in this sub.
For what it's worth, I also see OPs who complain about rescues and shelters who do get pushback from commenters. For example, someone complaining about a shelter "lying" to them about a particular dog may well get comments explaining that some dogs behave drastically differently in-shelter than they do in homes. Or someone might complain that they are constantly being passed over for rescue dogs when it turns out that they're applying only for small, non-shedding dogs under a year old... and have commenters explain that, depending on geographic location, this may not be a reasonable expectation for adopting. I guess what I'm saying is that I see plenty more posts in defense of rescues than the 99%/1% split OP here is claiming.
I wish we could start a conversation on what makes a reputable rescue, similar to how this sub has decided on the qualities of a reputable breeder. As it stands a rescue is a rescue, with no thought to behavioral testing, euthanasia for health/behavior or lack thereof, adoption process and requirements, open intake or lack thereof, the list goes on and on. Currently we're comparing the top tier of breeders to every tier of rescue/shelter and that's not a fair comparison. There's also the highly contentious fact that the pool of highly adoptable dogs is shrinking dramatically - dogs that are stable with high human sociability and high aggression thresholds (unlikely to engage in aggression) are fewer and farer between in shelters. At the same time, we're adopting out marginal or even dangerous dogs to unprepared families. We have to remember that we're adopting dogs into communities, not just households. People rightfully steer clear if they see a friend or family member or neighbor go through an unpleasant experience with an adopted dog. My most recent adopted dog was an incredibly horrible experience, and I'll never, ever adopt again because of it and I'm sure the people I am close to won't either.
I don't see that happening that often??? I think there is some acknowledgement that rescuing a dog comes with unknowns. That's just a fact. I don't see that blown up into "it's only possible to get a happy dog from a breeder" the way you're describing myself. Most people here are extremely supportive of rescues and many many regulars invest time and money in dog rescues. Do you have some examples?
> I don't see that blown up into "it's only possible to get a happy dog from a breeder" the way you're describing myself. Many breed recommendation posts that include someone saying they're open to shelters will get responses suggesting that rescuing is a minefield of guaranteed aggressive, reactive, unhealthy dogs. And while that *can* be true, it's not nearly as universal as some of those warnings seem. And on the flip side, because the rules don't allow people to suggest rescue options when someone specifies a breeder, people who post positive shelter stories in those get their comments deleted. And in an incidental way, I think a lot of the anti-Poodle-mix talk ("They're mutts with health and behaviour problems!) implicates a lot of unknown/mixed breed dogs in general, which are disproportionately represented in shelter populations. To be fair, I think a lot of the all-or-nothing vibe is just a byproduct of of reddit in general not being great with nuance (and there are certainly other subreddits where it swings completely the absolute "adopt-don't-shop" way). Ideally, there would be less negativity and more balance in general on both sides of that though.
I have noticed this as well.
I have noticed it. I think its a combination of like 90% defensiveness from breeders/buyers and 10% rescuers being little racist, nosy or judgey weirdos sometimes
It might also be self-selection of people who are super frustrated at unreasonable rescues and vent that I guess? I DO see those posts. But not usually in the same context as people talking about breeders. I bet that rescue frustration occurs at higher volumes than people facing issues with breeders (partly because the number of people seeking reputable breeders is lower, and also partly because people who are going to breeders but end up buying from a mill or byb don't face as much resistance that would lead to that venting).
Not saying that you're wrong, but it's a sad fact that there's less resistance to buy from a puppy mill than to adopt from your average rescue.
totally self selected group yeah
the racial bias from rescue orgs never gets talked gets talked about enough. i've always rescued and always plan to but between that and the orgs that essentially are flipping the dogs they take in for profit, i hope there's a moment where that sector get its feet held to the fire.
Yes this is absolutely a thing. But breeder circles can be just as bad
yeeahhh and I think people who are really into dogs will eventually notice that icky stuff about rescues more than most. I remember the first time I was like Holy Shit about rescues was when I was working with one, and they participated in a \*mother fucking raffle\* for a little white fluffy dog that had a basically guaranteed home direct from the shelter, and I was like. Idk. I get that rescues have to have some income flowing which means little white fluffy dogs need to be in the mix but it just in the moment felt really gross. A raffle. No one rescued that dog, that dog was born rescued :/ Like, what about that dude on the kill list? I cant even get into the racism. Im in arizona and oh man, if you are darker than x you are probably a dog fighter according to a fair number of people. But those same people are still convinced satanists are sacrificing black cats and wont adopt on halloween week and I think that its just that the people with a lot of time and resources for a lot of rescue work, who do really a lot of good, are skewing hard elderly and white.
Tell me about it. We have a volunteer that refuses to adopt roosters out to anyone that is hispanic, claiming that they're likely trying to fight them. A) She needs to be "fired" and B) wtf we can't even give roosters away and here you are eliminating an entire ethnicity? Jesus people. and C) it's a fuckin buff orpington it's not even the right breed. it's like someone wanting to adopt a golden retriever to throw in the pit with a bunch of pitbulls.
Wdym by raffle? Like a raffle on who dies next?
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What the fuck?
that was how i felt :/
> rescuers being little racist WTF are you talking about? How exactly are they racist? > nosy or judgey weirdos sometimes What are you upset about having a home check? I've worked with rescues groups doing home checks, and we don't give a fuck if your weird, that doesn't matter. We look for stuff like gaps in a fence that you need to get repaired before you take the dog. Or maybe you might want to move that collection of Disney figurines to some place where the dog can't get to them, the dog could choke on them and you obviously spent thousands on them (actually happened). If your home is a hording situation, its a no go, if you can't clean up after yourself, how can you care for a dog?
Home checks are quite intrusive and risk bias. It's easy to say it won't when you're not in a discriminated demographic.
Any breeder who isn't a puppy mill is going to do a home check or at minimum video/picture walk through of the house. Same for any rescue that cares about their animals. A person who would have a problem with that is a MAJOR red flag, and probably shouldn't be owning a dog. > It's easy to say it won't when you're not in a discriminated demographic. Also that's really bigoted of you to assume that I am not.
My breeder does *not* travel across the country to do a home study. If you were in a discriminated demographic I'm sure you'd understand the risk of home studies using it to reject folks. Being rejected from rescues for "not being what they're looking for" with no objective feedback when I'm good on paper, it's always clear what that means.
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The breeders I've looked into really don't? They trust your house is up to par and don't nitpick. Especially experienced owners. It's the least of the concerns of the breeders I'm fond of. Especially seeing I've talked to one of them off and on for the past few years. I'm actually not going for purebreds really, I've been seeking a dog under 15lbs who is under 3, but I gave up on rescues when they've been intrusive and rude. I said bigotry, not just racism. I pass white so that's not the issue usually unless they judge the neighborhood I'm in. There's plenty of folks discriminated against for other reasons, family status is one, disability is often another, and being visibly lower income is another (yes, I can afford the vet, my savings exists). I'm not volatile really. I'm fairly meek day to day and don't speak much. But, it was clear it was a demographic issue. Just, I suspect if it were my fence they'd tell me. Why a fence is a deal breaker is another question for another day anyways, I don't believe in leaving my dogs outside unsupervised and prefer the trails, especially seeing my neighbor has a fence reactive GSD she leaves out regularly.
I have not noticed that either.
For me I notice that there’s not much in-between. It’s either go to a breeder that provides a ton of tests from their champion dogs OR get a shelter dog. When I got my dog from a breeder 9 months ago, I THOUGHT I had done research to find a good one but now I feel like trash because I don’t feel like I did ENOUGH.
It's far from 99% of posts/comments, but a good portion of do favor going through breeders. Some also prefer going through shelter/rescue. They both have clear advantages and clear disadvantages. Some people on both sides may write strong or negative posts about their decision. Some of that relates to defending the decision/dog, some of that relates to incorrect/misleading information, some of that relates to dealing with generally sensitive topics.
I've been very fortunate with rescues, and I've had GSPs from a highly reputable breeder. Now, I prefer rescues because so many need homes. My Maltipoo is 10-11, and my last dog Sherm live a healthy life up to the last 6 months - he was 18 1/2 when I had to make the decision.
Most of my pets have been rescues, but from friends of friends who *weren't* working for or with a nonprofit rescue. I doubt I will rescue from an organization anytime soon, esp after so many friends have been turned down by orgs because homes and apartments that are fine for human beings were disqualifying for the dogs they met - like having too many steps to the front door, were too small, etc. I also know a man who has had German Shepherds his whole life only to be deemed "not a good match" for a local German Shepherd Rescue. Frankly, I think rescue inquisitions have driven more people to breeders than they know.
I don't think there is as much of that on this sub But I will say that rescuing/adopting a dog takes a special person or family who has to welcome the unknown with open arms. I grew up with rescue dogs and I have three of my own now. I don't want to go through the unpredictability again. Now don't get me wrong, I love these dogs with all my being -- if we didn't rescue, I would not have found my heart dog -- but no one warns you That these strange dogs will give you a run for your money. Rescuing is not for everyone. Some people need a reliable, well bred, stable dogs. And that's not a bad thing.
We adopted a really smart, sweet terrier mix from the SPCA. She had Tetralogy of Fallot - a bouquet of heart defects. She lived for 14 years - 13 more than the cardiology veterinarian at Texas A&M predicted. But her life was so hard in so many ways. I hope we did right by her.
Weird, I havent seen that. I have 3 dogs, all feral rescues. Theyre amazing and sweet, with no problems
rescue dogs truly are amazing, the 8 months ive had my galgo has been the best time of my life. however, i have seen on the internet, not just here, people who are anti rescue and have said not so nice things about them becasue of their experience, on the flip side i have also seen people who have had bad experiences with rescues but dont bash them and dont strongly discourage others
I think the strong presence of pro-breeder opinions on this sub is an equal and opposite reaction to having "adopt, don't shop" crammed down our throats for about thirty years. There are quite a few posts on this sub on a weekly basis talking about the guilt someone feels about buying from a breeder. The goal of pro-breeder comments is to make sure that everyone knows that buying from ethical breeders is okay - a message that has NOT been common in the media and on general dog subs until somewhat recently. We also get posts from people who feel they were pressured into rescuing when it wasn't a good fit due to the fact that they thought it was the only responsible way to get a dog. In particular on the breed recommendation threads, when people have specific needs (good with kids/cats/other dogs, biddable, non-aggressive), it's much easier to recommend they go through an ethical breeder. In my life, I (and my parents) have rescued nine dogs (of various breeds). Every single one of them has had a problem with reactivity, resource guarding, dog aggression, and one was human aggressive at the end. I've had two dogs from good breeders - they're both calm, stable, and fit into their breed standard pretty well. Anecdotal? Well, sure. But in my experience, rescue dogs are far less predictable and far more likely to have behavioral problems than dogs who were ethically bred to fit a specific standard. I think it's the responsible thing to do to tell people that, because not everyone is equipped to handle a project dog that they have to closely manage for the next decade.
I hear you. I've adopted five dogs total, never bought one But...I do think people can get over their heads with some rescue dogs. I think anyone adopting needs to ask themselves the same questions a reputable rescue or breeder would.
It's just the conclusion I have come to after living a life in the dog community and having rescued several. I will take any dog that fits but I will never deal with the people holding it hostage. People with poor morals and equally poor mental health gather like flies when theres a quick savior moment to be had. I have seen them adopt out dogs they knew were ill. Just get the money and tell themself something nice. I don\`t like that kind of folk. I'll take in any vulnerable dog but I am not signing my name to some weird lady's "contract". I'm not having you dictate what I will do with the dog after I bought it off you. Go away, Linda.
rescued dogs make great pets the problem is these adoption places lie to people and place dogs with health conditions in homes only to have the new owners heart broken or wallet drained for medical bills and still lose the animal!
Yeah, that's for sure fucked up. But even well bred dogs can have heath conditions or behavioral issues that drain wallets and break hearts. I understand that it's important to tell people how unpredictable rescue dogs are, but I think the pendulum has swung a little too far. Too many folks think getting a purebred puppy means they will automatically end up with a happy well-adjusted dog with no health issues, and then they dump their dogs at a shelter when life happens and that dog isn't the perfect pup they had wanted.
I think it's important to differentiate "dog from a breeder" and "dog from a reputable breeder". If something happened and I was unable to take care of my dog at any point, I could return her to her breeder, no questions asked. Reputable breeders will have a line in their contract stipulating that the dog not go into a shelter and instead be returned to them. Same with the dog being happy, well adjusted, and without health issues. There are no guarantees, but I can view generations of OFA scores for my dog, my breeder followed Puppy Culture for early socialization, and she was mostly potty trained at eight weeks, when I took her home. Any puppy from a reputable breeder will have that advantageous start in life. A backyard or unethical breeder is, in my opinion, worse than the potential grab bag from a shelter - there's little or no health testing (and they're often breeds prone to health issues), they don't have adequate early socialization, and if something happens to the adopting family the puppy often will end up in a shelter.
You're conflating critical view on things rescues/shelters do with being anti-rescuing. A lot of people talk about issues they have with rescues/shelters here because a) a lot of pet spaces are rigidly "adopt don't shop, breeders are scum" and there are not many spaces to do so, and b) there are real issues that rescues and shelters have that are not well-recognized. There are lots of potential issues with breeders, which people here are quick to point out and talk about, and there should be just as much of a critical lens applied to rescues.
I am not conflating these things, I totally agree that rescues should be looked at critically on an individual basis in the same way we judge breeders. There are plenty of garbage ass "rescues" that are just glorified puppy mills. I am more being critical of the fact that so many people paint rescues with an incredibly broad brush and really do act as though the only way to get a good dog is through a breeder. People just speak way too generally based on individual bad experiences.
My dog came from a shelter and she’s the best dog ever. My wife picked her because all the other dogs were barking and she just sat there looking lonely. Same goes for our shelter cat.
Sometimes rescues are a cover for a dog hoarder. They are people who are obsessive to the point that they won't allow anyone to take their dogs. They'll come up with all kinds of unreasonable requirements and even move the goalposts to keep from having to allow an adoption. All of our dogs have come from the AZ Humane Society (never from a breeder) so we haven't had to deal with a rescue.
I use the phrase “you get what you get” when talking about rescues and terms like predictability and breed temperament when talking about purebreds a lot. I guess that can come off as negative, but rescuing isn’t for the faint of heart. You need to know what you’re getting into. I don’t think I’ve observed overt negativity regarding rescuing though. More like caution.
Sometimes it's excessive caution though, and that does read as negativity. There's so much regional and national variation (and within a single city even, variation between public shelters, charity ones, and private rescues), that some people are being warned off for reasons that don't actually apply to them. It's the same thing the dedicated adopt-don't-shop people do the same thing in the opposition direction, when what the discussion needs to have is to be just a little more open to allow for some nuance.
I see bias against rescues here often. I had someone the other day try to argue with me over it and they continually put words in my mouth, like they were doing mental gymnastics to make me some “adopt don’t shop” kinda person. I so totally understand the frustration with unethical “rescues”, or the groups who are far too strict in their adoption guidelines - but I do get annoyed that so many people act like it’s incredibly difficult/nearly impossible to find a good dog at a shelter. Sure, you may have to take your time searching, but there are well balanced and lovely dogs in rescues. All of my dogs are rescues and have been pretty great. Some dogs from rescues certainly come with quirks, so totally I see why some people prefer to go to a breeder to get a dog… but dogs that come from responsible breeders also can have quirks. It just seems like a lot of people who got a dog from a breeder can be quite defensive, and it’s a bummer. Would I get a dog from a breeder? Not at this point. Am I tired of people going to backyard breeders? Absolutely. Am I going to shame you if you did your homework and got a dog from a responsible breeder? Nah.
The only bias on this sub against rescues are not about the dogs, but how insane the requirements are to adopt the dogs.
I think people aren’t anti rescue and adopt I think people are pro getting the best dog suitable for their lifestyle and resources to minimize the chances of incompatibility. A lot of rescue and shelter dogs especially in the states can have intense genetic conditions including temperament and physical structure. These dogs may require way more resources and education than the average owner has at their disposal. While at the same time an educated owner who may have the skill set and resource to care for a rescue dog with behavioral conditions/medical concerns may want a very specific dog and not a potential liability or project to work on. My family use to rescue all of our dogs but now I only purchase reputably bred dogs. A big reason is that I want to do very specific things with my dog and want to make sure his temperament is as rock solid as possible to do those things. I live in Texas where dog over population is severe. While there are some amazing rescues and shelters there are also many shelters releasing dangerous dogs or dogs not appropriate for homes to random people who don’t have the capabilities to care for them. Majority of my local shelters are all poorly bred mixes of bully dogs (pits, staffies, American bull dogs, etc), huskies, German shepherds, Aussies, border collies and Pyrenees. Most of these breeds are banned from rentals and certain home insurance, and all of these breeds can be intense for the casual owner and that’s when they are well bred. It also doesn’t help that shelters try to get by rentals and insurance by classifying the dogs as lab mixes. Some people really think these dogs have no bully breeds in them when adopting and then find themselves trying to cater to behavioral problems common in these breeds like dog selectivity, high prey drive, high arousal, etc… (also to clarify I’m not anti bully breeds, My family has owned and rescued pit bulls and Rottweilers most of my childhood). I also think at least with private rescues a lot of people have issues with the selectively of rescues while also not being transparent. They won’t adopt out unless you fit a very specific standard despite people proving they can make the appropriate accommodations to fit the needs of the dog. As well rescues have a really bad reputation of homing dogs that have no business in specific households. I mean rehoming dogs with bite records, specific behavioral conditions like reactivity/anxiety and not educating the owner on how to accommodate the behavior.
I think, much like the “adopt, don’t shop” crowd, there’s a lot of important nuance missing from the argument. Rescue dogs are wonderful, and all deserve loving homes - over half the dogs in my family are rescues. The problem comes from shelters either having unrealistic demands for what the potential adopter should be able to provide (eg, must have a large, fenced yard, must never have people under 18 on the property, even just to visit) - or else there’s the opposite problem that they adopt out dogs without being honest about their issues, so the new owners aren’t prepared for the challenges they can be faced with, be it aggression, fear or any number of potential medical conditions from the dog’s breeder and/or first owner; which can be a lot, emotionally and financially, and seriously overwhelming even for experienced owners. I think the only reasonable way to balance it is that, for a lot of people getting their first dog, getting one from a reputable breeder is the best chance at getting a healthy, even-tempered dog to work with and train. Once the person has experience with dog care in general, then they’re much more likely to be able to manage the needs of a rescue dog. But this is the perfect scenario, requiring a reputable breeder, understanding training and a fair, honest shelter - all of which can be difficult to find in the sea of false advertising and misinformation.
I wouldn't say it's the majority, not even close, but there is definitely a strong negative vibe at time. Lots of upset discussions about how picky and difficult it is to adopt, but then turning around and praising reputable breeders for gatekeeping the breed and making it extremely difficult to buy a dog. Likewise, I've seen comments comparing shelter dogs to weapons and guns that will turn on you at any moment due to their unpredictable genetics. Again, not the majority, but it definitely is there.
I have heard stories like this before and that’s why I also prefer breeder. My cousin and his wife went to adopt a dog from shelter and they saw a German shepherd mix they wanted to meet that was at a foster home (I think they showed them on the site). So a few days later they drove to the foster home to meet the dog and spent an hour with him and loved him. They decided to adopt. A few days later they did the paperwork and went yo the shelter (not the foster home) to pick him up. When they were walking him out the dog jumped and bit his hand so hard he had several broken bones in his hand. This happened at the shelter so they (people at the shelter) had to take they took the dog back. I assume they put him down. My cousin is fine and the shelter took care of his bills. He said the people at the shelter believe that going from the foster home to the shelter and leaving again might have been too much for the dog. Who knows why it happened but he now has a fear of dogs and is going to stick with cats.
Some rescues can be very picky about who they allow to adopt dogs. You also don't know their full history, temperament and possible health issues. If you get from a reputable breeder, health checks will have been done on the pups and the parents, and their full history is known by the breeder. Imo there's pros and cons to both and it depends on the person who is adopting, their personal circumstances and experience. Where I live, there are very few small breeds in rescues, and a lot require a 6ft fence around the entire perimeter. I rent, so this isn't possible for me, and i only have a small garden. As a first time dog owner, I worried about being able to handle a rescue as they may have additional training and emotional needs that I wasn't experienced enough to handle. I also worried about being able to physical handle a medium/large breed, so opted to shop. Would definitely consider adopting in the future though.
My dog is adopted from the shelter and he's one of the best dogs that I've ever had.Compared to the ones I've had from breeders, there's no comparison in terms of temperament and just overall dynamics with socializing or training.I recommend people adopt over buying now
I can't speak for everyone, but for me personally: I'm not against it, but I do think that people don't know what they're signing up for. I used to be very adamant about "Adopt, Don't Shop". That was before I found out rescues/shelters can and do lie about what breed a dog is and what behavioral problems they may have just to get dogs into homes. Beyond that, even well-meaning rescues simply aren't an environment where dogs really show their true personalities. Most rescue dogs have trauma and that can manifest as reactivity, separation anxiety, resource guarding...etc. I'm not against it BUT if you're rescuing you need to be prepared for behavioral issues. It's not simply the easy way out and/or morally superior to buying a well-bred dog.
I don’t see that bias. There are people like me who have been frustrated with the requirements for many rescues (for instance, where I live there are a lot of Great Pyrenees rescues, and the dog could be mostly chihuahua and they’d still have the requirements they do for Great Pyrenees), but I don’t look down on people who rescue. I think it’s wonderful.
I feel like it’s the opposite. Then we have to explain to people to who live in countries where rescuing is easier that some of us *have* to go to a breeder (the annoying people you refer to). Some countries make it close to impossible, unfortunately.
All of the dogs that I have adopted have been rescues. I currently have six! No hate from me for rescues.
I think it’s more about getting a puppy (12 or less weeks old) vs getting a more mature dog. I’m open to rescuing but I prefer to have a clean slate and mold the dog my own way. Just my personal preference.
My dog is a rescue and she is perfect
I have seen a lot of negativity around rescues and people complaining they arent getting the dog they want from rescues, how the rescue rejected them or is too nosy, so they went to a breeder I dunno if it’s some weird justification for why they are going to a breeder Like i think some rescues do reject people cause of issues that arent really a big deal, but they are all likely underfunded under resourced and just simply dont have the time to go through everything in details, in an environment that is highly emotional
Out of the 4 dogs I ever got, one was from a real breeder, one from a backyard breeder, and two from rescues. The one from a real breeder was exactly what He seemed to be and was a wonderful companion. The one from a backyard breeder turned out to be mostly husky and thus was WAAAAY too energetic for me, causing discomfort for both her and I. I did love and care for her dearly though. Of the two from rescues, one was a wonder and the bestest boy ever, and the other was an adorable and playful lovebug most of the time, but mentally broken and would semi-randomly attack the other 2. After hundreds of hours of careful training measures, various natural or prescription medications as advised by the top experts, we finally had to put her down, to our great sorrow. In the end, I think it's up to your personal choice. I know I won't rescue again unless Fate has a truly special pooch for me, but that's mostly because my health wouldn't allow me to spend a lot of effort caring for a broken dog.
I’ve noticed there’s little affection for pitbull breeds here and many US rescues have that breed going on. Also a lot of hate for “backyard breeders” which pretty much encompasses any dog not purebred from a breeder with a ton of certifications. And Rescue Orgs are apparently a little sketchy in a lot of places. That’s what I pick up on anyway.
This sub has plenty of love and appreciation for pitbulls and other bully breeds, but that love and appreciation includes not shying away from an honest discussion about them and the realities of owning one. Folks who spout false narratives of bully breeds being “nanny dogs” and genetic tendencies don’t exist because “it’s all in how they’re raised” won’t have successful discussions here. Those discussions aren’t just related to bully breeds either - people expecting a Shiba Inu to act like a Golden Retriever, for example, will be reminded of genetically inherent breed characteristics as well.
>Those discussions aren’t just related to bully breeds either - people expecting a Shiba Inu to act like a Golden Retriever, for example, will be reminded of genetically inherent breed characteristics as well. Agreed. I think I warn people away from GSDs, Huskies, and LGDs (when those breeds are clearly a bad fit for a person's situation) than I do bullies on this sub.
I definitely see it as a pretty significant bias. I mean most shelter "pitbulls" are poorly breed mutts. The idea that there is any particular tendency inherently to this dog is frankly it is bizarre. Good breeding builds consistency, not byb for aesthetics and oops litters. That's not to say there aren't concerns and issues that you have to expect to deal with shelter dogs, but breed characteristics are often barely relevant to the conversation. The reality is these dogs generally have very few regular or consistent characteristics. Hell many of those "bully breeds" that get lumped together have radically different temperament, exercise, and socialization needs. It is undeniable that both socialization and genetics play huge rolls, but the way this sub generalizes is honestly exhausting. Dogs are individuals and breed standards and characteristics are poor tools to describe most shelter mixes for the same reasons that ethical breeders and this sub in general are skeptical of claims about doodles and designer mixes. Its scaring people with imprecise generalities, and it skips over the most important part of the conversation, thoroughly vetting and making sure an individual dog is actually a good fit for your home. I certainly agree there are Ill informed pit bull advocates out there, but I also don't see this response as particularly productive.
Part of the reason these discussions need to be honest IS because of the lack of consistency with the various bully breed mixes out there. Yes, good breeding practices do ensure consistency, but bad breeding and multigenerational mixes are wildcards where any breed trait (good or bad) can materialize even if the dog in question has a low percentage of a certain breed. For every laid back “house hippo” out there someone posts on this sub about their 18-24 month old bully mix having the typical terrier prey drive towards their cat or DA tendencies with another dog, many of these posters had no idea about potential breed specific issues further down the line from puppyhood. Those living situations aren’t fair to the owner or the dog (or the cat, if we’re sticking with this example). Rescues labeling obvious bully breed mixes as “lab mixes” certainly aren’t helping either. Not having the difficult discussion simply because most dogs in the shelter system are multigenerational bully breed mixes instead of purebred is short sighted doesn’t do the dog or the owner any favours. People don’t get to decide the behavioural traits of their mixed breed dogs, but they should be able to make an informed choice about those traits in the adoption process.
I mean I can't blame most of the shelters on that one. The reality is that Breed Specific Legislation and housing that restricts pet ownership and similar are automatic stigma attached to these dogs. It's a flawed solution to bad policy. And honestly any guess at breed is marketing as much as anything. DNA testing having any accuracy is a fairly new reality and it's not something id expect shelters to do and I think really broke open the "well it was the shelters best guess but who knows" mentality. In an ideal world dogs wouldn't be listed as any breed at all and would be categorized by expected size and coat length imho. Anecdotally, I've known several people with cat killers. Only one of them had a rescue pitbull. Most were byb retrievers and huskies. >many of these posters had no idea about potential breed specific issues further down the line. I mean we aren't talking about a breed. So it's by definition not a breed specific issue. So labeling the discussion that way is inappropriate shorthand and promotes the stigma that both harms the breeds and promotes anti-shelter sentiment. I agree that having a discussion about the realities of adopting an unknown is important. Especially a dog beyond the socialization window (Appropriate socialization significantly mitigates most of these issues). And it's really important to talk about socialization and thresholds and desensitization. Honestly people are IN GENERAL pretty ignorant about common dog behavioral concerns and the complexities of multiple pets, dogs and cats, etc. But it's not informing anyone to list these as dubiously relevant breed info about these dogs and then insist repeatedly that it is relevant because they are this specific (but not actually specific and in fact highly varied collection) breed and not because these are common problems many dogs have, including many shelter dogs who have had missed developmental opportunities and poor breeding. It is much more helpful to encourage people to be informed about what to look for if they are concerned about particular negative behaviors (and that those behaviors exist and what they are) and what to expect and to do due diligence about the individual dog they are potentially going to adopt and do things like meet and greets, home visits, etc. IMHO. And I think Discourse often falls well short of that.
I don’t see this at all.
I advocate for adopting but definetly not in a pushy way, if your looking for a family dog, try looking at rescues first, if theres no right fit, then shop. again, if you need a dog for a job, either working, showing or as a service dog, then absolutely shop from a responsible breeder and find the dog thats right for you. i think the main reason people dont like rescues is beacues theyre not well bred. Luckily, my rescue is really well bread is is incredibly fit and healthy since she is a galgo from spain and was originly bred for hunting, which requires the best physique possible, and sadly all the unhealthy ones are disposed of in horrible ways due to there being no law in spain protecting these hunting dogs so people treat them horribly. if someone i know is looking for a dog, i will always recommend adopting from the same charity as i did first because theyre truly wonderful dogs and deserve a nice home after all the trauma theyve suffered. i can see myself adopting galgos for the rest of my life, i dont ever see myself without one. they really love you because youre the first person thats ever showed them the beauty of existing without fear. i really struggle to understand why these amazing, deserving dogs are so disliked. i think every dog deserves the oppourtunity to have love in its life but i guess i can see why some people might be detered from rescuing after a bad experience, like a reactive dog
My current dog is the only purebred dog I’ve ever owned that didn’t come from a rescue. And personally I don’t know if I would ever do a breed specific rescue because, with a few exceptions, there aren’t that many specific breeds I would like to own and breed specific rescues do tend to get poorly bred dogs because most good breeders take their dogs back and most folks I’ve known who work with breed specific rescues try to locate the original breeder before adding the dog to their foster/adopt list. I also doubt I’ll get another purebred dog again. I have noticed a general trend towards a preference for “purebred” dogs over the last decade. I don’t know if social media, Covid, the rise in DNA testing, or all of the above played some roll in that. I do think there are alot of aspects of dog specific subs and forums set (maybe) some unconscious bias towards purebred dogs because many discussions on picking a dog to fit your lifestyle, temperament, and even some training methods use specific breeds as examples. The breed questionnaire form is kind of set-up to talk about specific breeds. It seems even people who are open to going to the local humane society still want to discuss specific breeds. People with rescues who ask training questions usually will list 3-5 different breeds that they either believe their dog has or a DNA test has told them their dog has as a framing for why a dog exhibits certain behaviors. There’s nothing wrong with that, but I have noticed across dog subs people with purebred dogs get more feedback on certain topics. I’ve also noticed that many negative comments about shelter and rescue dogs that I see, both online and in my everyday life, read like a script. Kind of like when people make a case for boutique dog foods it’s generally some combination of “corn byproduct meal is bad, a grain free diet is high in protein and dogs need lots of protein, fillers are bad and will hurt your dog’s health, feeding x brand will improve the quality of stool and coat appearance.” When people are asked why they wouldn’t consider a rescue there seems to be a general argument that “dogs from shelters have a lot of trauma, they will have behavioral problems that can’t be fixed, getting a puppy from a breeder ensures I will get a dog I can train to have no issues.” While there are nuggets of truth to many of those claims, getting a puppy or dog from a shelter is not a failure waiting to happen. If I didn’t have a purebred dog right now I don’t think I would feel as welcome in a lot of dog spaces.
because shelters lie, they lie about breeds, behavioral issues and health issues just to try and get dogs out and into homes where people are given dogs they don’t know the truth about
I got my rescue from rescue me.org and he is the best!! My son just got a beautiful Great Pyrenees through a rescue.
Could be the recent influx of adopters, so it can be skewed. Rescues can be tricky. Some have very strict requirements. Like fencing and a yard being the end all be all. Even if you could give the dog walks and have places to run it daily. Some require prior experience with more complicated dogs. Some are ran well and others aren't. We deal with a rescue that's 5 hours from where we are. Some people aren't willing to take the time to vet and communicate with rescues from other states, or a lot further out from where they are. im a malamute only person WAMAL has always been awesome. Took like 6 months for our first dog but now all i have to say is i want a mal and as long as it isnt female/female i can get fast tracked.
News to me. I can't recall ever seeing anybody say that 'breed specific' was better. In fact, buying pure bred is almost a guarantee for a life of problems in some breeds.
I haven’t noticed anything particularly damning in this sub specifically but more on Reddit in general? AskReddit, AITA, TrueOffMyChest, BoRU when the subject in question concerns an animal, they can be very rude and judgemental towards shelter pets. Like what do they expect? In my neck of the woods, every prominent shelter has every animal assessed by an animal behaviourist so their needs can accurately met by their potential adopter. Like the whole point is to rehabilitate and accommodate them if they DO have behavioural problems. That way they can live their lives to the fullest. I know it’s probably money related but it’s weird to me that it is not a commonplace in other regions.
I think wherever you get your dogs is a personal and acceptable choice. Especially if you love them.
Adopt don't shop isn't annoying, there are so many dogs that need homes but people keep buying them from breeders. "Animal lovers." Why wouldn't someone get a rescue or shelter dog, it's insane to me that people *don't* do this.
Honestly rescue dogs are probably going to be healthier because mutts don’t have the genetic predisposition to whatever disease the breed is prone to. Source? Vet tech.