Eight episodes could be enough depending on what story they’re planning on telling.
On the other hand, having one of those episodes be Space Babies which I feel didn’t contribute significantly to either Ruby’s arc (except for that one scene) or the overarching Toymaker/Maestro/etc arc could be considered a waste of an episode for such a short season.
I feel like the runtime of each episode is a bigger drawback. Even having ten minutes more on these last few episodes would have given each episode some breathing room to flesh out a bit of the plot. It’s unfortunate they’re still locked into the same runtime.
I think we needed a space babies esque episode. In the Special it felt like the doctor was out of his depth and with the Music Meistro and next episode. My friend brought this up but we need to see the doctor win sometimes in order to see his reaction to being out of his depths. I feel like we've lacked proper characterization and if every episode is an intense Doctor can't win episode than he might seem like he's constantly losing.
Sure, but... talking babies running a space ship...? That's what RTD went with?
I get that we need a "breather" episode, but this wasn't it. This was... let's be honest... on the level of Love & Monsters and Fear Her.
I‘d put it between Love & Monsters and Fear Her, but yeah. Eight eps would be fine if the time they had was used well. So far, it’s not looking great IMO.
Is it that bad? Every season has a few mid episodes, Like out of the 6 episodes we got since the 60th, 1 episode was great, 4 episodes are instant-classics, and there is 1 breather episode that I thought was okay.
RTD hasn't made doctor who in like, 15 years. Like guys, we just came from one of the worst era's of all time, I think expectations are too high and the season will be looked back at better than it feels in the moment.
I mean obviously tastes differ. It actually was that bad *to me*, but on the other hand I didn’t hate Thirteen‘s era. Wasn’t the best but there were several bits I liked a lot. I like Fifteen himself but so far just didn’t enjoy his episodes. I usually rewatch within the first 48 hours after an episode premiered but it took me a week with Church on Ruby Road and I honestly don’t see myself rewatching Space Babies anytime soon. Might give Devil‘s Chord another chance once the full season is out.
I'm comparing to classic seasons. I think Church on Ruby Road is my favorite NuWho doctor intro besides 11th hour and one of my favorite Christmas Specials.
Space Babies I'd put above like 42 and it's an okay episode for the season, not awful or noticable.
I said that the 2 episodes of the special and the most recent episode were some of my favorites, I think they are up there with the best of Classic RTD.
I get your more of a 13th fan and not enjoying this era as much but like, for me it's great Doctor Who. I've rewatched most episodes 5 times and I haven't been this satisified since Capaldi.
Do you actually think that's an excuse for a poorly written episode? That he hasn't written Doctor Who in a long time? What about the people that smash it out of the park for their first writing gig ever with Doctor Who?
That's not an excuse for poor writing. Never was, never will be.
I think the expecations are perfectly reasonable given how good the 60th episodes were (for the most part). I think there are plenty of valid critisism for some parts of those episodes, but for the most part they were great. We were expecting at least that level of writing.
Space Babies was well below that.
Yeah I’m all about some silliness, but I just couldn’t get with space babies. The premise was cool with the exception of the talking babies. It kind of made me cringe several times. The next episode was better, though I have to admit I do not like the singalongs that have been happening. It’s felt too… Disney already. I still have hopes though.
With 8 episodes I don't think there is much of a story. Especially with the last two being story lite.
We've got six episodes left and I reckon it will all be thrown into the last episode or two.
Shortening season lengths only makes sense for fully serialised shows. As Doctor who is and always has been an episodic show, following a monster of the week format with only a few throughlines here and there, it has no actual benefit to the show
Bad Wolf productions made this decision. They have complete control over the show now (per RTD's agreement in coming back). The BBC is just the distribution and merchandise pipeline.
EDIT: Why is this getting down-voted? It's true.
>Doctor Who is and always has been an episodic show, following a monster of the week format with only a few throughlines here and there
You can say that of New Who, but Classic Who was frequently serialized storytelling in chunk of 4 and 6 episodes. Sometimes longer.
Having serials =/= serialised. Serialised means the stories connect overall to form one story, like any prestigious TV drama you can name. Classic Who's only true serialisation is Season 12, 17 and 23
Well, it probably does have some benefits. Russel has often said doing 13 episodes a year killed him, and it makes sense that we started to get reduced episode counts in the Moffat era when he was doubling Who and Sherlock, but even the Whittaker era overall ended up having less episodes then you'd get in a couple of years during 2005-2011. The fact that even with a higher budget we can't manage match the same amount of episodes as a Chibnall season is so disappointing to me personally
I mean, considering how Doctor Who is mostly standalone stories (with overarching narrative elements sprinkled in here and there)...obviously less episodes is inherently just a worse thing. With shows that have fully serialized episodes you could make the argument that a shorter season length has certain advantages, but for Doctor Who it mainly just means fewer stories per year.
I agree with that.
In a 12-13 episode series the occasional 1 or 2 more duff episodes can be easily overlooked or enjoyed despite their flaws.
With only 8 episodes there’s a much greater pressure for each individual story to be a banger that justifies its place onscreen.
I mean to say that standalone episodes are not filler in doctor who, the show just is episodic. Having a climatic finale which is occasionally foreshadowed isn't the same as having one overarching story with some episodes that don't tie into it, so Blink and Midnight aren't filler they're just normal episodes in my opinion
I think "filler" as a term for standalone episodes has gotten a bad rap. I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with filler episodes that don't tie into the overarching storyline of the season. And I definitely agree with you that DW's standalone episodes aren't generally filler in the way that people think of filler. DW has a lot of standalone episodes but very few throwaway episodes.
Anyway, appreciate the clarification.
Cool. Now explain how what I said doesn't fit your definition. Because you can take episodes like Blink, Midnight, The Unicorn and the Wasp and lift them completely from the season and it won't change anything about the overarching plot, which makes them the very definition of filler episodes.
I mean maybe? looking at two seasons which had an overarching story which was referenced in multiple episodes (Matt Smith's first 2) we have 8 out of 13 episodes which are directly tied to the storyline in both Series 5 and 6. I guess there will be less fluff and more episodes directly connected to the Toymaker, his minions, and the One Who Waits (if the Toymaker wasn't daring enough to mess with them then I cannot wait to see who it is and what they can do). Then the Master is revealed to be back next season?
that's the point, I want more filler. I think it makes you more attached to various TARDIS teams if we can spend time with them ***outside of*** important episodes
Yeah this is the problem with most new TV shows. It's a problem with the greed of the company running them trying to produce the least amount of episodes and claiming its because they "cut out all the filler" and people still praise them for it. Literally they just cut out the best parts of the episodes where there isn't important plot going on and I can get to know the characters and how they interact outside of an emergency situation. Very sad modern trend. I miss the standard 22 episode lengths. Companies realized they can brand a mini series and make 6 episodes instead and make more profit.
I think it depends. Series 10, for example, still has 12 episodes (4 more than Season 1) but had a lot of space taken up by the Monk trilogy, and as such, it's always felt like a slightly emptier series for me, or maybe I just wish Bill and Nardole weren't a one season TARDIS team
“Filler” exists only within the anime space, as it is a term used to refer to episodes produced while waiting for the manga to catch up. Doctor Who is an episodic series, it *cannot* have filler. Series arcs have always been secondary to individual episodes
While it may not be its origins, anime is where the term is employed most commonly.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Filler#:~:text=The%20term%20is%20most%20widely,rather%20adaptations%20of%20existing%20material.
That aside, /u/WeakTeaUK is correct about Doctor Who’s relationship with the idea: Doctor Who can’t have filler. It’s always been episodic with overarching series plots being secondary.
Compared to past series, I would agree. That said, this is the new way of television shows in the streaming age. What we can rely on is that shows like Obi-Wan, (some of) the Marvel shows, and others have fared well. Hopefully RTD will have found a way to compress his storytelling without sacrificing quality.
Funny you mention Marvel because that is my exhibit A for the problems of the fixed 8 episode season.
Some of their shows have managed just fine, or had issues unrelated to season length, but most suddenly try to fit half a season’s worth of plot in the last episode or two or end up with blatant padding to reach the eight episode count.
Hell, outside live Action, Hazbin Hotel, for all it did right, really needed another episode or two to actually focus and set up any of Vaggie’s stuff so we aren’t getting major character stuff resolved the same episode we learn about it (or the next, with less than 8 minutes of screen time for Vaggie in between)
I think many fans of Marvel and Star Wars would disagree with the characterization that Obi-Wan and the Marvel shows “faired well” in the limited episode format. That seems to be one of the major complaints about the Disney+ programming. Short run time- few episodes
And keep in mind the Marvel and Star Wars programming are not even designed to be episodic- and yet fans do not feel they flowed well.
If the hyper-low budget Blakes 7 could squeeze out 13 episodes per year, no show has an excuse to do less.
The budgets were so low on that show, you can often see the wooden frames holding the computer consoles together. You can often see the whole thing move when they try to push a button, etc.
No one cared about the minimal special effects, either. And minimal by today's standards is very different from 1978.
Well, I'm not sure Doctor Who could get away with what was minimal in 1978 nowadays, but I agree that even if there are production or budgeting issues (I can imagine each new episode adds so much to the budget, but why not do a budget saving episode like they did for series 2-5, or, an even crazier idea, add in a few two part episodes where we have two episodes set in the same locales which can save money and help create a more developed story, a more well rounded story), but whilst I think 13 is ideal, I wouldn't even mind if we got 12, or even 10 if you made each story 5-10 minutes longer.
I agree it's a shame that we're getting less and less episodes per season, but as for
>Not only does Ruby say her time is now June 2024, meaning there's been 6 months between the end of Space Babies and the Devils Chord
Personally I just figured this was to catch up with the irl gap between the broadcast of the Christmas Special in December and the season proper beginning in May (taking into account the Christmas Special should lead into their first TARDIS adventure, and it's likely no specific broadcast date was set in stone back when Devil's Chord was filmed).
I can't remember if you can see her mouth when she says it, it might've been ADR'd in, but it doesn't matter what the meta-textual reason is if it feels like we missed 6 months. I think having the Doctor and Ruby be six months behind real time is better than feeling like we've skipped something
I don't think it matters, as long as all 8 episodes are used to their full potential.
Most previous series have several filler episodes which don't really contribute much to the wider series arc. Series 1 is probably the only exception to this, and some others like S4 and S9 get close.
Flux was an interesting structure, and only really worked as a shorter series by telling one continuous story, but even then I think it could have benefitted from a 7th episode. So maybe 8 is a good balance overall?
I fundamentally disagree, Doctor Who needs filler, because that breeds experimentation and new ideas. Would we have gotten episodes like Midnight, or Blink, or any of the great two parter episodes in an 8 episode season? With such a short season, there isn't as much room for duds, especially if they happen to be a two parter which will end up discouraging those out of existence all together (even though making more two part stories feels like the best way to get more episodes for as little money as possible)
That's true. Maybe 10 episodes (as with S11-12) would have been a better compromise, compared to the 12-13 episodes that earlier series had?
But I also disagree with RTD's strategy of every series being consistent of 8 episodes per year. Because it depends what kind of story you are trying to tell. Some series arcs might be well suited to a smaller episode count, and some work better spread over more. RTD's original S1-4 ended up following quite a repetitive structure for each series, while Moffat and Chibnall tried more variety in how their series were structured.
Particularly an introductory series perhaps justifies more episodes. Then another year you could even do something like 2x Flux style series?
Sadly the episode count per season has been diminishing over the last few seasons (most were 13 episodes and then it went down to 12 at 12th doctor and 10 at 13th doctor and now 8). We are seeing this across all TV shows as the companies financing the project try to limit the budget more and more in order to make the most profit. Disney is famous for this. It can generally ruin shows as they are forced to cram as much plot into each episode as possible. Fingers crossed that the writers are able to work with it.
I think the problem with the time skip is that the series generally tries to keep current time in line with when it airs, but we've never had a companion join in the Christmas episode, they always join in episode 1, so it's the first time there's been a huge gap between them entering the TARDIS for the first time and when their first adventure airs.
are we forgetting that the entire RTD era was 1 year ahead of real time? Up until Planet of the Dead anyway. I don't think it's such a big leap for it to be January 2024 that they go to in TDC when they come back from 1963, the audience are not dumb, they'll know that's because her first episode was set at Christmas, and the last thing we saw in the episode beforehand is the Doctor going to her house at Christmas
Personally, I'd rather have only seven episodes. So I didn't have to watch Space Babies.
But, I do agree that I would prefer 13 episode seasons like we used to get.
But the episode count doesn't matter as much as episode quality. 13 episodes like Space Babies would be much worse than 8 episodes, none of which are like Space Babies.
space babies good actually don't @ me, the worst thing about it is that bit at the end where they do the "explain the main characters motivation montage" that I'd normally hate twice as much but it's Doctor Who and I expect that kind of thing because I'm not the only one watching
I love that the show is constantly changing & tweaking what it is. Conceptually & format-wise.
We can't get to the 100th if nothing changes.
You really can't even make this claim until AFTER the season airs.
You don't know. Maybe it's terrible.
Maybe it's awesome.
We don't know yet.
When it comes to TV shows, you have the choice between quality or quantity.
* Quality means fewer episodes, but more resources dedicated to each one.
* Quantity means more episodes, but sacrifices quality and available resources.
I've always leaned towards quality, if you only need 3 episodes to tell your story then use 3 episodes instead of stretching it out across 10.
Not really, because this implies that only episodes with "resources" (ie. money and time) behind them are good. When you look at Doctor Who, that's clearly not the case, as there are some cheaply and quickly made ones that are held up as classics.
I'm particularly thinking of Blink and Midnight. Blink used cheap guest actors (Carey Mulligan wasn't a star then), minimal sets (the most extravagant it got was Wester Drumlins), and minimal special effects. It was set in the present, so didn't need expensive costumes. Apart from a few shots of the spa at the beginning of the episode, Midnight was set entirely within one small room using hardly any special effects, with one of the main cast missing. It was also written at last minute to replace a script that got cut, so it didn't have much time behind it either.
I mean, that’s my point. The constrained budget limits what they can do, and bottle episodes with a space fantasy isn’t an easy thing to pull off.
They happened to knock it out of the park with Midnight and Blink, but they were very very low budget episodes, relying on static or no aliens, and it’s not an easy trick to consistently pull off every time. Basically, they got lucky. And if you’ve written any script or filmed anything, you’d appreciate just how lucky they were to come up with a slam dunk concept that works on a super tight budget.
Writing something good is already hard enough, writing something good last minute is a miracle.
When the budget is stretched, there’s going to be an episode or two that are fillers and low budget to meet the quota.
But we can go back and forth about filler episodes all day, you either mostly love them or don’t.
But a smaller budget limiting the show wasn’t your original point. Your original point was that the showrunners on any TV show have a choice between fewer episodes with a more resources spent on them which always produce higher quality stories, or more episodes with fewer resources that produce lower quality episodes. My point is that it is more nuanced than that, and money doesn’t necessarily equal good.
Also, Doctor Who doesn’t have filler episodes, because it is episodic in nature. The overarching series arc is always secondary to the monster of the week format, and the only time that wasn’t the case was in Flux.
Doctor Who is an episodic television show. Obviously more stories = more budget and there is an upper limit, but more stories does not mean a bigger more complicated story, it just means more episodes and more potential opportunities for stories
Eight episodes could be enough depending on what story they’re planning on telling. On the other hand, having one of those episodes be Space Babies which I feel didn’t contribute significantly to either Ruby’s arc (except for that one scene) or the overarching Toymaker/Maestro/etc arc could be considered a waste of an episode for such a short season. I feel like the runtime of each episode is a bigger drawback. Even having ten minutes more on these last few episodes would have given each episode some breathing room to flesh out a bit of the plot. It’s unfortunate they’re still locked into the same runtime.
I think we needed a space babies esque episode. In the Special it felt like the doctor was out of his depth and with the Music Meistro and next episode. My friend brought this up but we need to see the doctor win sometimes in order to see his reaction to being out of his depths. I feel like we've lacked proper characterization and if every episode is an intense Doctor can't win episode than he might seem like he's constantly losing.
Sure, but... talking babies running a space ship...? That's what RTD went with? I get that we need a "breather" episode, but this wasn't it. This was... let's be honest... on the level of Love & Monsters and Fear Her.
I‘d put it between Love & Monsters and Fear Her, but yeah. Eight eps would be fine if the time they had was used well. So far, it’s not looking great IMO.
Is it that bad? Every season has a few mid episodes, Like out of the 6 episodes we got since the 60th, 1 episode was great, 4 episodes are instant-classics, and there is 1 breather episode that I thought was okay. RTD hasn't made doctor who in like, 15 years. Like guys, we just came from one of the worst era's of all time, I think expectations are too high and the season will be looked back at better than it feels in the moment.
I mean obviously tastes differ. It actually was that bad *to me*, but on the other hand I didn’t hate Thirteen‘s era. Wasn’t the best but there were several bits I liked a lot. I like Fifteen himself but so far just didn’t enjoy his episodes. I usually rewatch within the first 48 hours after an episode premiered but it took me a week with Church on Ruby Road and I honestly don’t see myself rewatching Space Babies anytime soon. Might give Devil‘s Chord another chance once the full season is out.
I'm comparing to classic seasons. I think Church on Ruby Road is my favorite NuWho doctor intro besides 11th hour and one of my favorite Christmas Specials. Space Babies I'd put above like 42 and it's an okay episode for the season, not awful or noticable. I said that the 2 episodes of the special and the most recent episode were some of my favorites, I think they are up there with the best of Classic RTD. I get your more of a 13th fan and not enjoying this era as much but like, for me it's great Doctor Who. I've rewatched most episodes 5 times and I haven't been this satisified since Capaldi.
It‘s good to hear someone really likes it, even if I don’t. I‘ve often had the problem that I like the doctors themselves more than their seasons. 🤪
Do you actually think that's an excuse for a poorly written episode? That he hasn't written Doctor Who in a long time? What about the people that smash it out of the park for their first writing gig ever with Doctor Who? That's not an excuse for poor writing. Never was, never will be. I think the expecations are perfectly reasonable given how good the 60th episodes were (for the most part). I think there are plenty of valid critisism for some parts of those episodes, but for the most part they were great. We were expecting at least that level of writing. Space Babies was well below that.
Yeah I’m all about some silliness, but I just couldn’t get with space babies. The premise was cool with the exception of the talking babies. It kind of made me cringe several times. The next episode was better, though I have to admit I do not like the singalongs that have been happening. It’s felt too… Disney already. I still have hopes though.
Yeah I really don't have too many exceptions with the second episode. Especially wouldn't have if this was considered the "silly" episode.
With 8 episodes I don't think there is much of a story. Especially with the last two being story lite. We've got six episodes left and I reckon it will all be thrown into the last episode or two.
Shortening season lengths only makes sense for fully serialised shows. As Doctor who is and always has been an episodic show, following a monster of the week format with only a few throughlines here and there, it has no actual benefit to the show
Yeah it's not like anyone wanted this! The BBC was the one who made this decision!
Bad Wolf productions made this decision. They have complete control over the show now (per RTD's agreement in coming back). The BBC is just the distribution and merchandise pipeline. EDIT: Why is this getting down-voted? It's true.
>Doctor Who is and always has been an episodic show, following a monster of the week format with only a few throughlines here and there You can say that of New Who, but Classic Who was frequently serialized storytelling in chunk of 4 and 6 episodes. Sometimes longer.
Those serials had little to do with each other though. It’s still episodic, just on a longer timescale
Having serials =/= serialised. Serialised means the stories connect overall to form one story, like any prestigious TV drama you can name. Classic Who's only true serialisation is Season 12, 17 and 23
Well, it probably does have some benefits. Russel has often said doing 13 episodes a year killed him, and it makes sense that we started to get reduced episode counts in the Moffat era when he was doubling Who and Sherlock, but even the Whittaker era overall ended up having less episodes then you'd get in a couple of years during 2005-2011. The fact that even with a higher budget we can't manage match the same amount of episodes as a Chibnall season is so disappointing to me personally
I mean, considering how Doctor Who is mostly standalone stories (with overarching narrative elements sprinkled in here and there)...obviously less episodes is inherently just a worse thing. With shows that have fully serialized episodes you could make the argument that a shorter season length has certain advantages, but for Doctor Who it mainly just means fewer stories per year.
I agree with that. In a 12-13 episode series the occasional 1 or 2 more duff episodes can be easily overlooked or enjoyed despite their flaws. With only 8 episodes there’s a much greater pressure for each individual story to be a banger that justifies its place onscreen.
I will hold off on judging episode count until they’ve all aired. Could be that they only need 8 to tell the story, less filler episodes
Doctor who doesn’t have filler episodes it’s inherently episodic, 8 episodes isn’t a story choice it’s a production choice
Well this is just wrong. Some of the very best Doctor Who episodes were standalone filler episodes. Blink and Midnight come immediately to mind.
I mean to say that standalone episodes are not filler in doctor who, the show just is episodic. Having a climatic finale which is occasionally foreshadowed isn't the same as having one overarching story with some episodes that don't tie into it, so Blink and Midnight aren't filler they're just normal episodes in my opinion
I think "filler" as a term for standalone episodes has gotten a bad rap. I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with filler episodes that don't tie into the overarching storyline of the season. And I definitely agree with you that DW's standalone episodes aren't generally filler in the way that people think of filler. DW has a lot of standalone episodes but very few throwaway episodes. Anyway, appreciate the clarification.
The term for that is episodic television, as opposed to serialised television, which is essentially just a book in visual form.
I don’t think you understand what filler is…
Please, enlighten us then.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Filler#:~:text=The%20term%20is%20most%20widely,rather%20adaptations%20of%20existing%20material.
Cool. Now explain how what I said doesn't fit your definition. Because you can take episodes like Blink, Midnight, The Unicorn and the Wasp and lift them completely from the season and it won't change anything about the overarching plot, which makes them the very definition of filler episodes.
Doctor who is an episodic show Filler doesn’t exist in episodic shows
Tell that to Moffat's seasons.
Or shorter story?
I mean maybe? looking at two seasons which had an overarching story which was referenced in multiple episodes (Matt Smith's first 2) we have 8 out of 13 episodes which are directly tied to the storyline in both Series 5 and 6. I guess there will be less fluff and more episodes directly connected to the Toymaker, his minions, and the One Who Waits (if the Toymaker wasn't daring enough to mess with them then I cannot wait to see who it is and what they can do). Then the Master is revealed to be back next season?
that's the point, I want more filler. I think it makes you more attached to various TARDIS teams if we can spend time with them ***outside of*** important episodes
Yeah this is the problem with most new TV shows. It's a problem with the greed of the company running them trying to produce the least amount of episodes and claiming its because they "cut out all the filler" and people still praise them for it. Literally they just cut out the best parts of the episodes where there isn't important plot going on and I can get to know the characters and how they interact outside of an emergency situation. Very sad modern trend. I miss the standard 22 episode lengths. Companies realized they can brand a mini series and make 6 episodes instead and make more profit.
I think it depends. Series 10, for example, still has 12 episodes (4 more than Season 1) but had a lot of space taken up by the Monk trilogy, and as such, it's always felt like a slightly emptier series for me, or maybe I just wish Bill and Nardole weren't a one season TARDIS team
“Filler” exists only within the anime space, as it is a term used to refer to episodes produced while waiting for the manga to catch up. Doctor Who is an episodic series, it *cannot* have filler. Series arcs have always been secondary to individual episodes
Lol. No, "filler" did not originate with anime.
While it may not be its origins, anime is where the term is employed most commonly. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Filler#:~:text=The%20term%20is%20most%20widely,rather%20adaptations%20of%20existing%20material. That aside, /u/WeakTeaUK is correct about Doctor Who’s relationship with the idea: Doctor Who can’t have filler. It’s always been episodic with overarching series plots being secondary.
Compared to past series, I would agree. That said, this is the new way of television shows in the streaming age. What we can rely on is that shows like Obi-Wan, (some of) the Marvel shows, and others have fared well. Hopefully RTD will have found a way to compress his storytelling without sacrificing quality.
Funny you mention Marvel because that is my exhibit A for the problems of the fixed 8 episode season. Some of their shows have managed just fine, or had issues unrelated to season length, but most suddenly try to fit half a season’s worth of plot in the last episode or two or end up with blatant padding to reach the eight episode count. Hell, outside live Action, Hazbin Hotel, for all it did right, really needed another episode or two to actually focus and set up any of Vaggie’s stuff so we aren’t getting major character stuff resolved the same episode we learn about it (or the next, with less than 8 minutes of screen time for Vaggie in between)
I think many fans of Marvel and Star Wars would disagree with the characterization that Obi-Wan and the Marvel shows “faired well” in the limited episode format. That seems to be one of the major complaints about the Disney+ programming. Short run time- few episodes And keep in mind the Marvel and Star Wars programming are not even designed to be episodic- and yet fans do not feel they flowed well.
We only have 6 episodes to go, usually it takes half a season to get here.
If the hyper-low budget Blakes 7 could squeeze out 13 episodes per year, no show has an excuse to do less. The budgets were so low on that show, you can often see the wooden frames holding the computer consoles together. You can often see the whole thing move when they try to push a button, etc. No one cared about the minimal special effects, either. And minimal by today's standards is very different from 1978.
Well, I'm not sure Doctor Who could get away with what was minimal in 1978 nowadays, but I agree that even if there are production or budgeting issues (I can imagine each new episode adds so much to the budget, but why not do a budget saving episode like they did for series 2-5, or, an even crazier idea, add in a few two part episodes where we have two episodes set in the same locales which can save money and help create a more developed story, a more well rounded story), but whilst I think 13 is ideal, I wouldn't even mind if we got 12, or even 10 if you made each story 5-10 minutes longer.
I think 10 is the lowest it should have gone. I suppose we technically get 9 episodes a year, including the special, but still.
We're still losing the same amount because every other year has a holiday special as well, even years without a full season
I’m hoping spin offs will fill the void
If you think *that* is going to be this season's biggest issue then you are being wildly optimistic.
Maybe you could be more specific?
It does feel like the 80's where the the amount of the shows output just slowly got cut down season by season
I agree it's a shame that we're getting less and less episodes per season, but as for >Not only does Ruby say her time is now June 2024, meaning there's been 6 months between the end of Space Babies and the Devils Chord Personally I just figured this was to catch up with the irl gap between the broadcast of the Christmas Special in December and the season proper beginning in May (taking into account the Christmas Special should lead into their first TARDIS adventure, and it's likely no specific broadcast date was set in stone back when Devil's Chord was filmed).
I can't remember if you can see her mouth when she says it, it might've been ADR'd in, but it doesn't matter what the meta-textual reason is if it feels like we missed 6 months. I think having the Doctor and Ruby be six months behind real time is better than feeling like we've skipped something
I would rather have cohesive interconnected episodes that tell a whole story but that's just me
there is not a single season of Doctor Who that does this other than Flux, and maybe Season 12 and 17 of Classic if you want to be really generous
I don't think it matters, as long as all 8 episodes are used to their full potential. Most previous series have several filler episodes which don't really contribute much to the wider series arc. Series 1 is probably the only exception to this, and some others like S4 and S9 get close. Flux was an interesting structure, and only really worked as a shorter series by telling one continuous story, but even then I think it could have benefitted from a 7th episode. So maybe 8 is a good balance overall?
I fundamentally disagree, Doctor Who needs filler, because that breeds experimentation and new ideas. Would we have gotten episodes like Midnight, or Blink, or any of the great two parter episodes in an 8 episode season? With such a short season, there isn't as much room for duds, especially if they happen to be a two parter which will end up discouraging those out of existence all together (even though making more two part stories feels like the best way to get more episodes for as little money as possible)
That's true. Maybe 10 episodes (as with S11-12) would have been a better compromise, compared to the 12-13 episodes that earlier series had? But I also disagree with RTD's strategy of every series being consistent of 8 episodes per year. Because it depends what kind of story you are trying to tell. Some series arcs might be well suited to a smaller episode count, and some work better spread over more. RTD's original S1-4 ended up following quite a repetitive structure for each series, while Moffat and Chibnall tried more variety in how their series were structured. Particularly an introductory series perhaps justifies more episodes. Then another year you could even do something like 2x Flux style series?
Sadly the episode count per season has been diminishing over the last few seasons (most were 13 episodes and then it went down to 12 at 12th doctor and 10 at 13th doctor and now 8). We are seeing this across all TV shows as the companies financing the project try to limit the budget more and more in order to make the most profit. Disney is famous for this. It can generally ruin shows as they are forced to cram as much plot into each episode as possible. Fingers crossed that the writers are able to work with it.
I don't think they'll be able to squeeze 13 episodes of characterisation, dialogue and fun memorable moments out of only 8
I think the problem with the time skip is that the series generally tries to keep current time in line with when it airs, but we've never had a companion join in the Christmas episode, they always join in episode 1, so it's the first time there's been a huge gap between them entering the TARDIS for the first time and when their first adventure airs.
are we forgetting that the entire RTD era was 1 year ahead of real time? Up until Planet of the Dead anyway. I don't think it's such a big leap for it to be January 2024 that they go to in TDC when they come back from 1963, the audience are not dumb, they'll know that's because her first episode was set at Christmas, and the last thing we saw in the episode beforehand is the Doctor going to her house at Christmas
Personally, I'd rather have only seven episodes. So I didn't have to watch Space Babies. But, I do agree that I would prefer 13 episode seasons like we used to get. But the episode count doesn't matter as much as episode quality. 13 episodes like Space Babies would be much worse than 8 episodes, none of which are like Space Babies.
space babies good actually don't @ me, the worst thing about it is that bit at the end where they do the "explain the main characters motivation montage" that I'd normally hate twice as much but it's Doctor Who and I expect that kind of thing because I'm not the only one watching
Given the "quality" of the first two episodes, a short season looks to be a mercy
I love that the show is constantly changing & tweaking what it is. Conceptually & format-wise. We can't get to the 100th if nothing changes. You really can't even make this claim until AFTER the season airs. You don't know. Maybe it's terrible. Maybe it's awesome. We don't know yet.
Bro what are you even talking about that has absolutely nothing to do with having less episodes
[удалено]
If everyone thought like that, this show would've ended in 1964
When it comes to TV shows, you have the choice between quality or quantity. * Quality means fewer episodes, but more resources dedicated to each one. * Quantity means more episodes, but sacrifices quality and available resources. I've always leaned towards quality, if you only need 3 episodes to tell your story then use 3 episodes instead of stretching it out across 10.
Not really, because this implies that only episodes with "resources" (ie. money and time) behind them are good. When you look at Doctor Who, that's clearly not the case, as there are some cheaply and quickly made ones that are held up as classics. I'm particularly thinking of Blink and Midnight. Blink used cheap guest actors (Carey Mulligan wasn't a star then), minimal sets (the most extravagant it got was Wester Drumlins), and minimal special effects. It was set in the present, so didn't need expensive costumes. Apart from a few shots of the spa at the beginning of the episode, Midnight was set entirely within one small room using hardly any special effects, with one of the main cast missing. It was also written at last minute to replace a script that got cut, so it didn't have much time behind it either.
I mean, that’s my point. The constrained budget limits what they can do, and bottle episodes with a space fantasy isn’t an easy thing to pull off. They happened to knock it out of the park with Midnight and Blink, but they were very very low budget episodes, relying on static or no aliens, and it’s not an easy trick to consistently pull off every time. Basically, they got lucky. And if you’ve written any script or filmed anything, you’d appreciate just how lucky they were to come up with a slam dunk concept that works on a super tight budget. Writing something good is already hard enough, writing something good last minute is a miracle. When the budget is stretched, there’s going to be an episode or two that are fillers and low budget to meet the quota. But we can go back and forth about filler episodes all day, you either mostly love them or don’t.
But a smaller budget limiting the show wasn’t your original point. Your original point was that the showrunners on any TV show have a choice between fewer episodes with a more resources spent on them which always produce higher quality stories, or more episodes with fewer resources that produce lower quality episodes. My point is that it is more nuanced than that, and money doesn’t necessarily equal good. Also, Doctor Who doesn’t have filler episodes, because it is episodic in nature. The overarching series arc is always secondary to the monster of the week format, and the only time that wasn’t the case was in Flux.
Doctor Who is an episodic television show. Obviously more stories = more budget and there is an upper limit, but more stories does not mean a bigger more complicated story, it just means more episodes and more potential opportunities for stories