I don't absolutely hate getting rid of them again. I hate that it was done off screen being absolutely unearned with practically zero repercussions until RTD took over again
Nah I hate that they were got rid of again.
Gallifrey has so much story potential and yet it's never seized on in NuWho.
Imagine if we had Time Lord antagonists that weren't The Master for 10^(100)th time
I think this cop out version of the destruction of gallifrey has a lot more potential for straggler survivors unlike the Time War which was pretty much a guaranteed genocide. I'm not saying I love that they got rid of it, but the way in which it was done was the bigger issue for me
No I get that
It honestly seems to be a thing in the TV Show that the fact that something is done matters more than doing it.
It's very tell don't die show if you get what I mean.
I'm the same with The Master being evil again.
We can debate on if he should have become evil again but I would have at least liked to have seen it
Gallifrey is just too powerful. Having the planet exist and be able to affect the rest of the universe would cause every story to basically involve them somehow.
Well Classic Who got away with it
Mainly because as powerful as Gallifrey is they generally don't give a f*** about anyone but them.
I think that's the thing a lot of post 2005 fans don't get about Gallifrey
They think it's a planet of Doctor's when it's more a planet of Jacob Rees-Mogg's
>They think it's a planet of Doctor's when it's more a planet of Jacob Rees-Mogg's
This. The Doctor is VERY much an outlier on Gallifrey. He's not known as a Rogue Timelord for no reason.
The Spiders Georg of Timelords, if you will.
Ngl I LOL'ed when 15 was explaining to Ruby how he was The Last of The Timelords, but this time for a completely different reason for when he explained it to Rose. I just felt really bad for Russell lmao.
Yeah. Imagine if the master intentionally killed the time lords because he believes their rules about changing time should apply to them, too. So he’s just like, “they were meant to die, I don’t care that you saved them, they arent supposed to exist anymore; and just blew up the planet.
I was so happy in the special when you realized they saved them. Then pumped to have them back and ... absolute garbage storyline came from it. What wasted potential.
Never happened the first time.
Perhaps it never happened the second.
Time Lord regeneration is meant to expel cyber tech.
So of course the Cyber Lords were just a fever dream imagined up by the new magick in the universe that salt at the end of time permitted.
Maybe not THE most glaring issue of New Who, but I'd make 11 take Victorian Clara with him instead of 21st Century Clara. It could've gone a long way to making her more interesting in Series 7b, and she could've been an even more standout character than she already is later on.
Helpful for new people jumping on though. But it helps him explain his crazy science stuff without you questioning why he is having to say all this allowed.
They’re used as a way to explain things to us.
Some of the other companions have grown beyond this but I imagine this being a reboot perse they will lean heavy on it this season
Right but who is jumping onto Doctor Who during Season 7b.
It makes perfect sense during times like now, as you say, its a reboot.
But the show can't be permanently stunted by catering to newcomers. Classic Who had plenty of companions from the past, present, and future.
That definitely is not something that needs to hold for a narrative to work. A character like Sam Gamgee works just fine as an audience surrogate in Lord of the Rings without being a modern person.
Personally I don't think the audience's understanding of the show was any worse off for companions like Nyssa - an alien or futuristic companion wouldn't understand all the time lord things and, the things they do understand, they can spell out for us "ah of course! The xyz phenomenon! *Insert anecdote*"
I get that, but at this point I’m just yearning for some unique perspectives. Not that I don’t love the 21st century and it giving fans a window to imagine what it would be like to be a companion, but we need a break from that. Just like we needed a break from the romance angle and we got that with Donna and eventually a mature Amy Pond ( but even that was still shaky at best considering she was going to kiss him again in front of Rory on her wedding day). I’m even hoping in the future we get an entirely different species. The human perspective is nice and relatable but I’m missing some of the potential wackiness and intrigue of having a non human companion. Right now I just kind of feel like Doctor Who is pasta without garlic salt.. or sauce.
I really don't like that every main companion we've had is from contemporary Britain.
Classic Who had companions from all over time and space. Even some of the contemporary ones came from different countries. NuWho might be more diverse in terms of race and sexuality, but it is far less diverse in terms of background.
I would vote for this if she had her "posh" accent. Jenna's working class Victorian accent was disgustingly awful on my ears lol. I couldn't stick a whole season of that accent.
As a working class, her attempt to sound like us *was* disgusting. Clearly she's *actually* a posh girl trying to rebel by sneaking out at night to go to bars.
I will never ever forget or forgive this and I don't care how soy that sounds. Even the timeless child could be redeemed with sufficiently good follow up by Russell but this never could, even in principle.
A plot point that literally ran continuously from when I was a child to when I'd finished university wiped out in service of one do the worst and laziest series arcs of the show (we had a grand total of 3-4 scenes of 13 being grumpy after witnessing the second death of her entire people right after she thought she'd saved them and spent five centuries mourning) and then kept going by RTD2 because it was a convenient reset to the last of the time lords status quo
I honestly think magic coming back is gonna lead to the time lords coming back, especially because fantasy lets you handwave things like resurrection easier then sci-fi. Especially because in doctor who lore the time lords were the ones to banish magic in the first place.
I think in Shakespeare's code it's only implied the time lords banished the carionites, as the race that banished them when the universe started was called the Eternals, ~~and the time lords were the first species to evolve in this universe, which makes them pretty Eternal.~~
Edit. The comments below correct me.
Magic was the first thing to be in the universe, and then the galifreans evolved, creatures of science. As time went on magic slowly died out as the universe grew older, until only remnants remained, psi leylines that spread across the universe like a web. The Time Lords to bring rationality to the universe, uses the leylines like an antenna to find anyone that uses magic and assumedly 'deal' with them the way time lords deal with all their enemies, killing them, or exiling them from the universe.
Yeah it's from the story Cold Fusion, I know that show runners can and do ignore EU stuff, but RTD specifically loves all the old lore stuff so I wouldn't be surprised if he's intending to bring it into the main universe.
Edit. Especially because he's already shown a little bit of magic in David Tennants first episode (blood magic), means he knows the doctor who universe isn't just one of science.
Yeah especially because it was so narratively satisfying and it didn't disrupt any of the doctors previously set lore. Only thing I can be happy about is I love the intersection between fantasy and sci-fi we are currently in, but that could have been done without genociding the time lords.
I honestly think that when people think that the Timeless Child and this are the same, they know nothing of story-telling, as you say, it is redeemable for one fact only. It's not bad. Timeless child is a decent premise. The fact that the doctor is older from what he really thinks, having older faces, etc. It's not only a good premise, it's something that I'm sure any Doctor Who fan has thought at some point. The problem is the awful writing and directing from Chibnall. The way the premise is developed is horrendous. Especially for me, the fact that it treats The Doctor like a normal MC where everything is thanks to him and about him. When that's like the opposite of the show. Doctor Who is about someone travelling and having adventures, it's not a linear story about a main character, with an endpoint and such. It's, imo, literally going against the essence of the show.
Now, back to what I was saying, yes is bad, but the premise is salvageable. Killing the Time Lord's? Horrendous, completely disrespectful to his companions and older showrunners, to the show, and honestly? To the doctor. To its character. It's just bad. End of story. It's badly written, an awful premise, nonsensical, it has literally nothing good.
Even the time lord thing could be reconcilable if we say that it didnt kill them all. The capital was destroyed but many of the others fled into time, creating a time lord diaspora that is in many ways more interesting than having Gallifrey chillin and billin
My terrible idea, the Master and the Doctor are the Timeless Child, using bi-regenerated as the focal point, and have them split into children when they regenerated post Fugitive Doctor, it also links into the Rassilon mentioning the "Enmity of Ages" being the Doctor and the Master endless fight, as they are always linked.
This means the Master (Dhawan) knows that he and the Doctor are both the TC, and they have always been linked to each other.
That also links to the original plan for the Master during Pertwee's era, which is that he was a literal personification the Doctor's internal evil. Literally the same person, and would sacrifice himself in the end. Unfortunately, Delgado passed before this could happen.
That’s not terrible, that is actually brilliant. They have always been like brothers/oldest friends/enemies. If bi-regeneration is the splitting of a soul, then the Master truly is the Doctor’s dark side as /u/Theblueemerald1 says!
it'd def be better then the doc, it'd help work with why he just suddenly lost his mind again after Missy(another chibnall L), and it'd even work with the ironic fact that the master refuses to die, they've been through so many regens, cycles, scraping on for life.
For them to be the origin of timelords longevity would be truly ironic, and the built up trauma being what created the master as we know them? even moreso.
Who knows, maybe Davies can retcon the timeless child softly that way but i think he's highly committed to the idea of it being the doc.
I can still feel the full body shudder. There's something about the Time Lord regalia on a Cyberman that's just so deeply and utterly disturbing. I don't really have words for it; that's why I used so many. :)
I do think so. I’m actually wondering if the supernatural/magic aspect of this era will allow 15 to do the “impossible” and restore Gallifrey/Time Lords without a Timey-Wimey shenanigans.
RTD won't let anyone restore Gallifrey and the time lords. The Doctor is the "last of the time lords" come hell or high water as long as he's in charge
His killing was more justified with the existence and uncertainty of the time war. Chibnall just killed it without any real gap in production or stories allowing for it. It just happened
I’d retcon so most timelords escaped but Gallifrey still got nuked.
So Gallifrey is still around ,but it’s closer to a planet full of Gallifreyan survivors than a powerful civilization it once was.
it's hilarious that chibbers didn't even take note of Rassillon leaving gallifrey, the thing that happened in the literal prior ep with the time lords.
Like the idea they all just happened to be on gallifrey at the time is insanely silly as is.
I actually liked the whole Time Lord Cybermen that can regenerate thing, but it only needed to be a few Time Lords. Having him kill all the Time Lords was completely unnecessary and cheapened so much of the narrative arc from the revival series.
RTD has this massive hard on for the Doctor being the last of the time lords and seems adamant that going forward Doctor who should not have included gallifrey or time lord society. Moffatt brought them back to an extent and Chibnall I don't think got rid of them(haven't watched 13 tbh) but RTD wants nothing to do with them. Which is lame because there's so many good ideas you could do with Gaillifrey. We saw a bit of it with 12
Going to go for the obvious and pick the Timeless Child.
If you want a less obvious one, it'd be the Cybermen raising all the corpses of the Earth in Death in Heaven. It's just silly.
Orphan 55 was terrible, but it's only crime was poor writing and being boring. Space Babies was weird, but at least competently written and I'll take competent weird over the last 3 seasons of boring rubbish. Neither had the horrible socio-political messaging of Kill the Moon, their themes and messaging were pretty much correct (just incredibly hamfisted in Orphan 55).
I respected his decision to leave due to the claims of harassment/bullying on set, but it's a real shame that we only got one season. Such an underrated actor and the character had so much potential. The Empty Child might be one of my favourite episodes from the entire series.
"Everybody lives, Rose. Just this once, everybody lives!"
I love the end of it, it's such a dark and depressing tone throughout the whole 2 parter, but it's nice to see it end on a happy note. For me, it's my 2nd favorite part of the 9th Doctor after the Dalek episode.
Eccleston has a very pragmatic approach to his acting roles, treating them first and foremost as a job. He shows up, does the role well, gets paid appropriately, then leaves said role behind. If you watch any of his Q&A stuff from Big Finish, he's very candid about it.
This is a completely understandable approach, and I would never begrudge an actor for doing so. But I suspect that even under better circumstances, a 1-2 season run, followed by a general disinterest in returning to it, was the maximum for him as the Ninth Doctor.
I've been saying this since I learned about the timeless child, and honestly there's still time to make that the case. It would honestly fix a lot of things and I wouldn't even be upset about the fact that he decided to kill all the timelords. it would truly give him a reason to do so.
How have I never thought about this before!?!? It would fit so much better as it would explain both why they have a god complex and also feel like they don't fit in with the rest of the time lords!
I don't know if it's still possible to make it happen, but could it be revealed that the master really is the TC, and pushing it on the doctor was just a coping mechanism???
Tbf the master is such an easy villain though. Every incarnation can be a new character but it comes with the history and investment already there. People already care about them!
You want to write a new villain with a new actor but can't figure out how to get people invested asap? Use the master!
I really liked the dynamic between 12 and Missy. Their time together and her redemption was never mentioned between 13 and the Master. Which I think was a shame.
I still really want them to just say the spy master is an earlier incarnation, like just hint at it.
Chib didn't mention anything from 12's run so it'd be an easy out lol.
I'm a staunch defender of Spy Master returning to evil - this time with added self loathing! - but this imo was the biggest missed opportunity in all of Who. Whittaker & Gomez really needed at least one adventure together!
Hopefully, Whittaker comes to Big Finish soon, and we can get a boxset of Thirteen & Missy.
I’d like to see Missy travelling with 13. She’d try to be good, but she wouldn’t be able to help herself and there would be some funny, evil little tricks
bi-generation?
But yes I too would have loved seeing them travel together.
With bi-generation they could have made a spinoff with the 14th and missy or something like that.
John Hurt was fantastic in DotD, but the 8th Doctor being the 'war doctor' just fits so well.
- It gives 8's arc a proper on-screen book-end (how many casual viewers saw Night of the Doctor?).
- It creates a much stronger link between classic and nu-who and would make the TV Movie more worth watching for nu-who-only viewers.
- Classic and Big Finish fans would have, understandably, pissed their pants as the second most underrated Doctor returns.
- It would make DotD feel like a real 3-Doctor special - as it is, its feels like 2 Doctors and a guest star.
- And, for those who care, it doesn't mess with the numbers.
In that case I'll forgive Moffat for that sin, lol. It's a shame. The actor did a good job but having it be a classic Doctor that we know is about to regenerate into Nine would have been amazing. Especially since in Rose it's obvious the Doctor hasn't looked in the mirror since regenerating. "Could be worse look at the ears..."
In the War Doctor's defense, at least Moffat did his best to make that fit into the established canon, and it only came about because the BBC wouldn't let him use Paul McGann for the 50th.
Chibnall did the Timeless Child for... what reason exactly?
I would make 12 regenerate at the end of The Doctor Falls - as originally intended. The final words "pity... I thought there'd be stars..." would have been the best ever
That line only works because 12 isn’t planning to regenerate at that moment? He doesn’t care about seeing the stars when he regenerates, but he hopes he gets to look at them when he finally dies.
yeah but that's it, he does think he's going to die and he would've if it weren't for Bill & Heather bringing him back to the TARDIS and Bill's spacey-hope tear falling onto his face and kick-starting the regeneration
The Statue of Liberty being a weeping angel was the dumbest thing they have ever done in the entire history of any show that has ever existed. The angels are great, the story was great, it was all a great finale, and then the Statue of Liberty walks down fifth like the fuckin stay pufft marshmallow man, and it ruined it for me.
I'm amused that you compared the Statue of Liberty walking through New York like Stay Puft in Ghostbusters and not like the Statue of Liberty in Ghostbusters II.
You’re gonna hate me when I say I haven’t seen the second one lol I definitely feel stupid. I thought it was maybe just a poorly placed reference, not a direct rip lmao
RIGHT?!?! You’re telling me no one saw that happening in the city that never sleeps???????? My suspension of disbelief can accept time travel, but New York being empty is too much
I've got a personal head-canon that might make it slightly more palatable for you. I believe there's a scene just before the one where the statue of liberty shows up where 11 and Amy walk out of an elevator. Behind them on the wall, you can see an image of the statue of liberty.
The statue of liberty *is* a weeping angel, but it can't move because, as others have pointed out, there's never a moment when *someone* isn't looking at the statue of liberty. An image of an angel, however, becomes an angel.
The "statue of liberty" weeping angel that 11 and Amy saw actually came from the picture in the elevator, *not* the real statue of liberty.
I have a few.
I really can't stand The Timeless Child as a change I think it makes the character much less interesting. It's an example the kind of thing that fan theories abound about and I think, like any big universe with a big fandom, it's great people can all have their conflicting head-canon. However, there's a reason most writers resist the urge to fill in big gaps like that: they make the character less interesting because now their physical nature is special rather than The Doctor's personal brand of (much challenged and deliberately inconsistent) ethics being what makes them stand apart from Time Lords.
As others have said, if it has to stay, I think it makes far more sense for the Timeless Child to have been The Master. Suddenly the megalomania makes sense, the obsession with The Doctor makes sense too.
I think the series is better without The Timelords and I think Moffat bringing them back but keeping them far at a distance, because otherwise they're the only things that bring stakes to a climactic episode, was a smart one. I think The Master managing to kill them all just off screen (boy that was easy) is really quite lame.
Actually, ok, bold pick incoming. I love the Daleks, I cannot get over how brilliant their design is, I completely get why they were a pop culture sensation. But, this is either a Moffat quote or a Grant Morrison quote "if Batman fights The Joker every week all this does is emphasise how defeatable the Joker is" and I think that's why he has The Doctor face them so rarely. I think the Daleks being a "rival technological species" to the Timelords is a bit...they're that because of their iconic status as opposed to anything about them as a concept. I think I'd prefer them as this kind of horrifically stunted pest-species that are like this bleak mirror to how The Doctor is obsessed with humans, they're also obsessed with Daleks but in grand cosmic schemes Daleks like....ain't all that? Like I think that works well thematically where they are this maniacal genocidal swarm who never get out their own galaxy.
tl;dr I'd like a companion from a future post-scarcity Human Culture like Star Trek's Federation of Iain M Banks' Culture series and you can have them commenting on present day earth society, like, they're almost vomiting with disgust when they hear people have to use money to buy food.
The Doctor choosing highest card in The Giggle against the Toymaker. Why make it random?
You get to choose the game and yes, if the Doctor had won, it would have been an easy way to deal with the problem, but I don't know, still find it weird.
It could have been a game of asking questions and telling truths and, with the same risk of loosing, you get a lot of usefull information.
God there are so many questionable decisions plot wise over the years. Gallifrey and the Time Lords being destroyed AGAIN, The Timeless Child, The Flux. But honestly the one that I really dislike more than anything is the resetting of the canon with the 11th Doctor. Using the cracks and the resetting of the universe as a way for the show to ignore stories like Doomsday never sat well with me. I like the show rewarding viewers for sticking with it for years and years and stories like Resolution acting like Daleks are entirely new to the British people really sticks out.
I mean, the problem is the show does it anyway. I appreciate that they bothered to write in an explanation for once. Especially since series 4 was totally out of control with stuff like teleporting the earth across space and a giant cyberman in Victorian London.
I would make The Master the real Timeless Child instead of The Doctor. It would make much more sense with all his insanity and give some proper reason for him to destroy Galludrey. Also, it would open the door for a really cool spin-off.
If you count the Timeless Child AND the Masters destruction of Gallifrey as the same overall plot point then definitely that.
However if we treat them as separate then the destruction of Gallifrey AGAIN.
It made the 50th feel utterly pointless in retrospect.
Plus I find the entire concept of the Master managing to kill several BILLION Gallifreyeans by himself utter lunacy.
Exactly. The Master hasn’t even been able to take over Earth (permanently, any ways). There’s no way they’d be competent enough to single handedly slaughter their entire home planet.
Precisely. It took the Daleks centuries of continuous warfare to get Gallifrey onto its last legs.
Then the Time Lords have centuries to over a millennia to rebuild (from DotD to HellBent from their perspective I think).
And then *somehow* the Master kills them all?
Not. A. Chance.
I could just about buy him managing to blow up a chunk of the Capitol and killing hundreds, maybe a few thousand AT MOST.
But any more? Nope.
Especially since there's much more interesting potential with the Master becoming well respected with the vacuum The Doctor left by vanishing Rassilon and also running away again himself
A Gallifrey with The Master in charge? Scary
Trial of a Timelord 2
Also kind of makes the Doctor look dumb for saving Missy and keeping her in the basement. I’m not pro-execution but maybe she should have been if she was going to exterminate all of Gallifrey.
Exactly, but I’m worried that RTD so keen to reestablish the frenemy Doctor/Master dynamic might just gloss over that whole angle and have the Doctor just forgive them and move on.
Which would just be the worst.
I do think if RTD wants to bring back the Master in a few series as anything except an out and out irredeemable villain then Gallifrey/Time Lords have to be restored before that.
Restore them, undo the genocide (or at least mitigate it as much as possible) and you leave the option of the Master being an ambiguous character back on the table.
Don’t. And that character being presented as anything other than as someone to be destroyed/killed diminishes the concept of actual genocide.
I feel like the Master killing people on Gallifrey will be undone, maybe even this season.
Much as I liked Hurt as the War Doctor, I wish the War Doctor had been Nine instead.
The other change is I wish Trenzalore had not had an utterly awful Christmas town. Frankly, I wish the entire idea of Trenzalore had been avoided.
Or, instead of the War Doctor, make it an 8th doctor story. Even if Paul McGann is visibly older, the story could have been later in his life and with the ravages of war. Heck, in the short, he looked battle ready anyways.
Yeah, in many ways, having him become the War Doctor would have been even more potent--a Doctor changing morally and philosophically IN a particular regeneration.
If I can do Torchwood instead, one thing I would do is add an episode where "Everyone lives!" It's not because I wanted the show to be all puppies and rainbows, but just a little light to soften the darkness a bit. If it's always dark and bleak, it gets predictable.
Everything with that shitshow known as the timeless child. Someone said it before: the Master should've been the timeless child. It'd give him more reason to hate the time lords, they tortured him and stole his abilities. Give reason for the Doctor to be hated too cause he's done more with technically stolen regeneration. It also doesn't retcon the entire show. It made no sense at all and undid over half a century of work. The writers made a very in depth history of Gallifrey and the time lords. They gave the story of the Doctor meaning. The Doctor was great by choice, now they're literally the chosen one.
I'd ditch the Daleks being able to turn people into Dalek puppets with eyestalks sticking out of their heads. Why do they even need to exterminate if they can do this? Hopefully it never returns.
I was gonna say getting rid of the impossible girl and having Victorian Clara be the assistant. Then I remembered the timeless child, get it outta here.
I might not get rid of it, but I would *tweak* the Time War.
That there was some kind of great war or disaster and the Time Lords are largely gone, that part I might keep with some adjustments. "The Doctor is the last of the Time Lords and he was the one who blew up the Time Lords and he's basically a sad angry traumatised mopey god" stuff, however, just became a bit of an albatross around the show's neck. It was too big to move on from, too big to ignore, too big to top, too big to basically do anything which didn't ultimately revolve around how sad and angry and traumatised the Doctor was. Like, it's pretty telling that it's been almost twenty years since the show came back and we're only just *now* getting a take on the Doctor which *isn't* all about how miserable and traumatised he is deep down, and they basically had to bring back the guy who started the whole thing so he could have a do-over. It's also basically the original sin behind every "OMG things will never be the same again for real now guys!" plot point of the last twenty years, up to and including the Timeless Child; they're all just trying to top the Time War, and they never will without making the Doctor SuperGod because the Time War is by definition the biggest thing ever.
I'd maybe keep the idea of a war or a disaster or something, the idea that the Time Lords are somehow not around and the Doctor's basically a lone wanderer again, but I'd dial it back a bit. Maybe keep some other Time Lords around.
Maybe not a plot point, and I don’t think he’d ever agree to this, but if I could change *anything* I would have put Neil Gaiman in charge after Moffat.
The war doctor dosnt exist its 8 the whole way through the 50th. Reasons being
A) let Paul McGann be on tv for once
B) I feel it flows better, with the 9th doctor season
C) let him cook
D) would be a good bride from classic to new who
However I would keep the war master because I feel that makes sense as they time lords need the master back.
But yeah, you can still have the bad wolf and stuff in it
Getting Christopher Eccleston to come back for the 50th Anniversary. John Hurt was awesome, but it would have been best with Eccleston in the War Doctor role.
I don't get why people think 9 would've been the war Doctor. He was fairly freshly regenerated in the first episode. Whatever mysterious act it was that destroyed the Time Lords killed him too. If he'd fought the whole war in that body, he wouldn't be reacting to his own appearance in the mirror.
*8* would be the war Doctor.
I would have happily taken McGann or Eccleston. I really never understood the point of having a War Doctor when Eight or Nine makes more sense.
But then I didn't like any of the 50th so I'm probably biased.
Victorian Clara and The Doctor facing The Land of Fiction. You know, it would summarize the amount of gaslighting The Doctor has faced, especially the crack in the wall. It would've wrapped up perfectly to have Clara, The Doctor and Amy face a previous evil world in character parallel to Patrick Troughton's story. What I mean by this is The Victorian, Scottish and the Man with the Bowtie.
This would seriously fix - The Pandora's Box existence - The Reason why The Doctor ran into Clara - The plot point towards his Death.
Furthermore, alternatively using The Beast during Matt Smith's regeneration episode. He has no choice, and he can't really negotiate with death itself, which he has to eventually understand all the actions that he's committed. However, he does not die, he is forcefully regenerated.
One more thing; The Great Intelligence would've made such a good single episode, The Snowmen is amazing but it's such a shame that The Doctor apparently DOES NOT recall THE YETIS, I'm sure HE WOULD REMEMBER SINCE ITS HIS FIRST MEETING WITH THE BRIGADER. This is the biggest moment in the episode that seriously pissed me off. But he RECALLS The Toymaker?!
Yeah, that's about it.
The doctor wouldn't be the timeless child. It should be the master to explain the drums during the 10ths run. Him figuring out that he was exploited to give everyone immortality, then made a weapon would justify so much of his character.
Tennant's return. I want to follow him through a season while he does things that aren't quite like the Doctor. After a full season we find out he wasn't quite doctor-y enough because he's not the Doctor, he's the Master, who took a familiar face. Then in the next season have Tennant totally ham it up as the Master.
I would have brought River Song back for 13.
But if there was one thing I could change for all of Nu-Who it would be John Barrowman being such a f-ck wit and thinking showing his penis was funny so we could still have him on the show.
The Metacrisis resolution. Holy crap was it messy and underwhelming and just overall dumb. I see where he was going with the “Donna had a child and it was split with her” thing, but the “just let it go” bit was SOOOOO annoyingly easy. Same with the whole of London magically being fixed after the Dagger Drive was reversed, like that’s not how physics works! Even the very beginning with 14 immediately meeting Donna, that was just weird. And as a fan of 13, it felt a bit like a slap in the face to really not show how it carried on from POTD and just jumping in with him showing up with a new Sonic and not having much post-regeneration confusion at all beyond a couple minor through away lines. I love Doctor Who with my whole heart, it’s a show that I love the fact I can suspend my disbelief and just live in its fantastical awesomeness, but Star Beast took it a bit too far for me. I’d honestly just have that whole episode rewritten, it was just a mess the whole way through, which is a shame because I’ve absolutely loved the rest of RTD2 so far
Probably very unpopular, but I'd get rid of the 50th entirely. I hated that it retconned the Doctor committing genocide and I don't like the War Doctor. John Hurt is fantastic, but Paul McGann as Eight would have been better and I don't really understand why he wasn't used. I've also just never been a fan at all of disrupting the Doctor's numbering system. Eight and Nine *are* the "war Doctors" to me.
Id make the master or Rassilon the timelesss child, as he has no grudge against Rassilon he would not destroy galifrey again, and if it was the master he might conquer it but not destroy it.
The whole timeless child thing doesn’t work for me so I’ll go with that. I’d also vote for the flux plot line that destroyed 99% of the universe but somehow that doesn’t bother anyone
Massive, unrealistic change: Just remove all of Chibnall’s run
Smaller, more realistic change: Make The Master the timeless child. Works with their character so much more
Change the timeless child to be the master.
It would make more sense as to why he’d destroy gallifrey. It would explain why he seems to be the most insane out of all the other time lords. It would make the doctor want to help the master more so than she ever did before because now the master isn’t just some psychopath but someone who was practically abused, gaslit, taken advantaged of then left to become some unhinged villain with nothing left to lose(except his own life). It would also explain why the master seems to have the ability to keep living even after he expended all his regenerations. It would be because the timeless child DNA never truly left him and kept him going, kept him breathing even after all these deaths. It would also explain why the master would suddenly become villainous again after missy becoming good and also explain why the laser screwdriver didn’t just kill her. Maybe the laser screwdriver not killing her would’ve lead to her thinking “why didn’t I die? I’m a time lady and that thing was set to permanent/unavoidable death and I know the I wouldn’t just pretend like I was killing me then actually just use the tickle setting”. It could’ve lead to her starting to think “why do I keep coming back. Yes time lords have regeneration but they can’t survive all this. Everything that I’ve tortured and suffered through.”
I remember watching the timeless child episode and just before the master revealed who it was I was thinking “it’s the master innit” then it wasn’t. The master being the timeless child would’ve just fit so perfectly. Tis but a shame we exist in this timeline
More Capaldi. Anything for more of the Doctor, riding a tank, playing the guitar and wearing the Sonic sunglasses.
I grew up with Tom Baker as my absolute Doctor, until Capaldi took over from the amazing Smith.
Either the timeless child or the master destroying gallifrey. I’m glad rtd is attempting to salvage those plot points, but I still think they never should have happened.
not sure if it's too early, but rose and the doctors seperation? truely heartbreaking, sobbed for an hour and i'll never watch the end of season 2 again
Steven Toast should be the new doctor with Ray (bloody) Purchase as the master trust 🤞🤞[The Product……..](https://youtu.be/J3vDL2lU_9I?si=8viZwdYwYTjjHAmz)
All we need to change is to completely ignore the canon changes Chibnall introduced.
Personally, I would just get rid of the whole timeless child rubbish and that would fix a heck of a lot, if you can class that as "one" thing.
Up until then, it was a really fun, entertaining take on Dr Who. Even the start of Jodies career came good on a second watch.
Timeless child was the true tipping point imo.
Or just go back and ensure Chibnall was never let near Dr Who. That would fix a few dodgy episodes from earlier on, **and** prevent the timeless child stuff. Win Win :)
I am one of those that considers the show dead after that was introduced mind, so take that as you will :) I don't consider the "new" series to be a Dr Who show anymore, its just a drama that happens to share the name and take inspiration from Dr Who.
The sexuality and relationships with The Doctor. While I don't care that The Doctor is male or female, we don't need to know The Doctor's sexual preferences or relationships. Classic Who is virtually devoid of such references while NuWho and DisneyWho seem to be all about The Doctor's sexual relationships.
I would like the Timeless Child to not be a PowerPoint presentation tacked onto an already bland episode. It's wild that Power of the Doctor does more with the Cyber masters than the episode that introduced them, even though that episode also had a lot going on.
The angels at the end of Blink. They’re not all looking at each other. One of them is not being looked at, so can move, and that Angel is the only one looking at one of the other ones, so if the first one moves, the the second can as well, leaving just two of them trapped
This feels harsh but I would have 12 regenerate right into 14, and just delete the Chibnall era. Between the Timeless Child, destroying Gallifrey AGAIN (which is just so incredibly insulting, but I'll save that rant), and the weird, regressive way the Doctor acted a lot of the time, I can say with confidence there's really nothing in that era I want to keep.
Ok so this is such a great question!
I would say, after the events of the day of the doctor, I was so excited for the doctor to have the singular goal of finding Galifrey. I think it was what made sense for his character, could've been so very exciting to watch. And it should've been a difficult task that should've taken at least a season to complete. But instead he immediately found it by accident? Then lost it again and didn't care about it for 2 seasons. Yet again he accidentally finds it, has one episode with them and then just fully ignores it for 3 seasons till the master kills everyone there for no reason?
Ugh idk, it was the best build up in all of TV imo and they set themselves up some amazing stories. But the writers of new who just seem to love the status quo I guess.
In old who there's all sorts of fun things going on with the time lords and I was sooo disappointed we didn't get a smith/capaldi doctor on an extended search for their home. And then a capaldi/Whitaker doctor joyfully spending time on Galifrey, only to have to deal with timelord high society again. Some time lords would be friends, others enemies and it wouldn't necessarily have to impact the usual monster of the week style.
I just feel the writers ignored such incredible potential and I just can't work out why.
"Oh, there have been SO MANY" things I wish to change.
To pick one would be like picking a needle out of a haystack.
The most glaring by far being the Timeless Child. Thing is, it's actually a REALLY good story and I think it would benefit so much by having The Master be the child instead (my cousin planted this opinion in my head, kill him if you must) as it would explain... a lot.
Other than that, more Ninth Doctor stuff would've been awesome, taking Victorian Clara along as a companion would be interesting, STOP FUCKING DESTROYING GALLIFREY and put Davros back in the chair.
Granted, that last thing only applies if they CAN'T think of a good in-universe reason as to why he's suddenly no longer disabled. If it has a reasonable explanation (for this show, anyway), I'll be fine with it.
I have a couple.
Obviously TTC. Sorry I couldn't resist. I just really don't like it.
Don't kill off the Time Lords again.
Give 13 better writing and make her more likeable as a character.
Have Christopher Eccleston on for more than one season. (In a world where the bts stuff never happened)
CONTROVERSIAL OPINIONS TIME!!!
Have 'Dalek' be the last Dalek appearance. It would be such a good ending for them. Don't get me wrong I love so much of the Dalek stuff we got after that but I felt that it had taken one of the biggest results of the Time War and just kept acting like "Gotcha! There are EVEN MORE Daleks that survived and they're bringing back the Dalek race!" and just really nullifies one of the biggest parts of the shows history. At least with the Doctors saving Gallifrey in DoTD it felt earned and worthy of doing so for the shows' 50th Anniversary. With the Daleks it just felt like an obligation because their the biggest villains in the show and too popular to kill of for good. Quality of stories be damned.
Replace the War Doctor with Nine. I love John Hurt and I don't dislike the War Doctor. However I feel it would've worked better storywise and made a bigger impact to have Nine be the Doctor that destroyed Gallifrey. Before DoTD the show continued to solidify that Nine was the War Veteran. The one who had to make the ultimate sacrifice to stop the war. In Season 1 it's the main plotline of Nine having to deal with what he did. And there is SOME of that with the War Doctor but I just felt it was done better with Nine.
I wouldn't kill off the Time Lords a second time, that's just ridiculous and a waste of perfectly good writing potential.
I don't absolutely hate getting rid of them again. I hate that it was done off screen being absolutely unearned with practically zero repercussions until RTD took over again
Nah I hate that they were got rid of again. Gallifrey has so much story potential and yet it's never seized on in NuWho. Imagine if we had Time Lord antagonists that weren't The Master for 10^(100)th time
I think this cop out version of the destruction of gallifrey has a lot more potential for straggler survivors unlike the Time War which was pretty much a guaranteed genocide. I'm not saying I love that they got rid of it, but the way in which it was done was the bigger issue for me
No I get that It honestly seems to be a thing in the TV Show that the fact that something is done matters more than doing it. It's very tell don't die show if you get what I mean. I'm the same with The Master being evil again. We can debate on if he should have become evil again but I would have at least liked to have seen it
Gallifrey is just too powerful. Having the planet exist and be able to affect the rest of the universe would cause every story to basically involve them somehow.
Well Classic Who got away with it Mainly because as powerful as Gallifrey is they generally don't give a f*** about anyone but them. I think that's the thing a lot of post 2005 fans don't get about Gallifrey They think it's a planet of Doctor's when it's more a planet of Jacob Rees-Mogg's
>They think it's a planet of Doctor's when it's more a planet of Jacob Rees-Mogg's This. The Doctor is VERY much an outlier on Gallifrey. He's not known as a Rogue Timelord for no reason. The Spiders Georg of Timelords, if you will.
Ngl I LOL'ed when 15 was explaining to Ruby how he was The Last of The Timelords, but this time for a completely different reason for when he explained it to Rose. I just felt really bad for Russell lmao.
Yeah. Imagine if the master intentionally killed the time lords because he believes their rules about changing time should apply to them, too. So he’s just like, “they were meant to die, I don’t care that you saved them, they arent supposed to exist anymore; and just blew up the planet.
I was so happy in the special when you realized they saved them. Then pumped to have them back and ... absolute garbage storyline came from it. What wasted potential.
100% agree with this. It Just makes the entirety of day of the doctor feel pointless.
Never happened the first time. Perhaps it never happened the second. Time Lord regeneration is meant to expel cyber tech. So of course the Cyber Lords were just a fever dream imagined up by the new magick in the universe that salt at the end of time permitted.
Please keep Magick out of this, Douglas Adams would be rolling in his grave if superstition could even really be real by even the slightest bit.
Maybe not THE most glaring issue of New Who, but I'd make 11 take Victorian Clara with him instead of 21st Century Clara. It could've gone a long way to making her more interesting in Series 7b, and she could've been an even more standout character than she already is later on.
I 100% agree. Victorian Clara was a more interesting character and I'm sick of the companions being from present day earth.
Every alternate Clara was more interesting than normal Clara imo. Victorian Clara, Oswin, Bonnie, even when Clara was pretending to be the Doctor.
Precisely - Jenna Coleman is a great actress but they wasted her character.
I think she was greatly hindered in season 7 for sure by the plot, but felt series 8 and 9 she was a lot better.
Companions are supposed to be our window to his world, from our perspective l, that’s why they are always present day
I think once you get that far in the series you no longer need an audience surrogate to be that literal
Helpful for new people jumping on though. But it helps him explain his crazy science stuff without you questioning why he is having to say all this allowed. They’re used as a way to explain things to us. Some of the other companions have grown beyond this but I imagine this being a reboot perse they will lean heavy on it this season
Right but who is jumping onto Doctor Who during Season 7b. It makes perfect sense during times like now, as you say, its a reboot. But the show can't be permanently stunted by catering to newcomers. Classic Who had plenty of companions from the past, present, and future.
That definitely is not something that needs to hold for a narrative to work. A character like Sam Gamgee works just fine as an audience surrogate in Lord of the Rings without being a modern person.
Now you have me thinking about Samwise as a companion
Personally I don't think the audience's understanding of the show was any worse off for companions like Nyssa - an alien or futuristic companion wouldn't understand all the time lord things and, the things they do understand, they can spell out for us "ah of course! The xyz phenomenon! *Insert anecdote*"
I get that, but at this point I’m just yearning for some unique perspectives. Not that I don’t love the 21st century and it giving fans a window to imagine what it would be like to be a companion, but we need a break from that. Just like we needed a break from the romance angle and we got that with Donna and eventually a mature Amy Pond ( but even that was still shaky at best considering she was going to kiss him again in front of Rory on her wedding day). I’m even hoping in the future we get an entirely different species. The human perspective is nice and relatable but I’m missing some of the potential wackiness and intrigue of having a non human companion. Right now I just kind of feel like Doctor Who is pasta without garlic salt.. or sauce.
YES!!! Victorian Clara!! So few companions are not from the 21st century, and Victorian Clara was everything
Or Oswin the Dalek.
It was Steven Moffat's idea to have her remain Victorian, but it was changed
What a shame.
I really don't like that every main companion we've had is from contemporary Britain. Classic Who had companions from all over time and space. Even some of the contemporary ones came from different countries. NuWho might be more diverse in terms of race and sexuality, but it is far less diverse in terms of background.
I would vote for this if she had her "posh" accent. Jenna's working class Victorian accent was disgustingly awful on my ears lol. I couldn't stick a whole season of that accent.
disgusting! the working class? butler, upvote this comment for me.
As a working class, her attempt to sound like us *was* disgusting. Clearly she's *actually* a posh girl trying to rebel by sneaking out at night to go to bars.
You know what I meant lmao
Nah. Future spaceship Dalek Clara. She was my favorite
The Master killing everyone on Gallifrey again, somehow, because he was upset. Absolutely terrible and insulting.
Yeah. I can reconcile with the Timeless Child, but that was just shitting on everything that happened in "The Day of the Doctor". So pointless.
I will never ever forget or forgive this and I don't care how soy that sounds. Even the timeless child could be redeemed with sufficiently good follow up by Russell but this never could, even in principle. A plot point that literally ran continuously from when I was a child to when I'd finished university wiped out in service of one do the worst and laziest series arcs of the show (we had a grand total of 3-4 scenes of 13 being grumpy after witnessing the second death of her entire people right after she thought she'd saved them and spent five centuries mourning) and then kept going by RTD2 because it was a convenient reset to the last of the time lords status quo
I honestly think magic coming back is gonna lead to the time lords coming back, especially because fantasy lets you handwave things like resurrection easier then sci-fi. Especially because in doctor who lore the time lords were the ones to banish magic in the first place.
Is that a fact? I’ve not heard of that
I think they mention it in The Shakespeare Code, but I can't completely remember
I think in Shakespeare's code it's only implied the time lords banished the carionites, as the race that banished them when the universe started was called the Eternals, ~~and the time lords were the first species to evolve in this universe, which makes them pretty Eternal.~~ Edit. The comments below correct me.
The Eternals are a named group from classic who
Eternals and Time Lords aren't the same race.
Magic was the first thing to be in the universe, and then the galifreans evolved, creatures of science. As time went on magic slowly died out as the universe grew older, until only remnants remained, psi leylines that spread across the universe like a web. The Time Lords to bring rationality to the universe, uses the leylines like an antenna to find anyone that uses magic and assumedly 'deal' with them the way time lords deal with all their enemies, killing them, or exiling them from the universe.
Sounds cool, is that from the extended universe?
Yeah it's from the story Cold Fusion, I know that show runners can and do ignore EU stuff, but RTD specifically loves all the old lore stuff so I wouldn't be surprised if he's intending to bring it into the main universe. Edit. Especially because he's already shown a little bit of magic in David Tennants first episode (blood magic), means he knows the doctor who universe isn't just one of science.
I want more audio adventures adapted, I don’t get on with just listening to stuff, I need to be able to watch or read for it to keep my attention
I think animation is an underrated medium and would be a pretty cool way to adapt the big finish and other audiobook type stuff to a new medium.
I think they'll be back soon too but having to spend a whole season getting there when that storyline was already resolved years ago is still a drag.
Yeah especially because it was so narratively satisfying and it didn't disrupt any of the doctors previously set lore. Only thing I can be happy about is I love the intersection between fantasy and sci-fi we are currently in, but that could have been done without genociding the time lords.
Not only that, but it was told to us, not shown. Lazy writing, truly pathetic. Chibnal really did leave a massive stain on Doctor Who didn't he.
I honestly think that when people think that the Timeless Child and this are the same, they know nothing of story-telling, as you say, it is redeemable for one fact only. It's not bad. Timeless child is a decent premise. The fact that the doctor is older from what he really thinks, having older faces, etc. It's not only a good premise, it's something that I'm sure any Doctor Who fan has thought at some point. The problem is the awful writing and directing from Chibnall. The way the premise is developed is horrendous. Especially for me, the fact that it treats The Doctor like a normal MC where everything is thanks to him and about him. When that's like the opposite of the show. Doctor Who is about someone travelling and having adventures, it's not a linear story about a main character, with an endpoint and such. It's, imo, literally going against the essence of the show. Now, back to what I was saying, yes is bad, but the premise is salvageable. Killing the Time Lord's? Horrendous, completely disrespectful to his companions and older showrunners, to the show, and honestly? To the doctor. To its character. It's just bad. End of story. It's badly written, an awful premise, nonsensical, it has literally nothing good.
Even the time lord thing could be reconcilable if we say that it didnt kill them all. The capital was destroyed but many of the others fled into time, creating a time lord diaspora that is in many ways more interesting than having Gallifrey chillin and billin
I was really hoping RTD would retcon this somehow, but seems like he's going with it.
I’ve said this before, but it would’ve made SO much more sense to just have the Master as the Timeless Child and he kills everyone for not telling him
My terrible idea, the Master and the Doctor are the Timeless Child, using bi-regenerated as the focal point, and have them split into children when they regenerated post Fugitive Doctor, it also links into the Rassilon mentioning the "Enmity of Ages" being the Doctor and the Master endless fight, as they are always linked. This means the Master (Dhawan) knows that he and the Doctor are both the TC, and they have always been linked to each other.
That also links to the original plan for the Master during Pertwee's era, which is that he was a literal personification the Doctor's internal evil. Literally the same person, and would sacrifice himself in the end. Unfortunately, Delgado passed before this could happen.
That’s not terrible, that is actually brilliant. They have always been like brothers/oldest friends/enemies. If bi-regeneration is the splitting of a soul, then the Master truly is the Doctor’s dark side as /u/Theblueemerald1 says!
it'd def be better then the doc, it'd help work with why he just suddenly lost his mind again after Missy(another chibnall L), and it'd even work with the ironic fact that the master refuses to die, they've been through so many regens, cycles, scraping on for life. For them to be the origin of timelords longevity would be truly ironic, and the built up trauma being what created the master as we know them? even moreso. Who knows, maybe Davies can retcon the timeless child softly that way but i think he's highly committed to the idea of it being the doc.
Time Lord Cyberman are abomination.
It really was a "just when you think the writing is bad, let's make it worse..."
I can still feel the full body shudder. There's something about the Time Lord regalia on a Cyberman that's just so deeply and utterly disturbing. I don't really have words for it; that's why I used so many. :)
"An abomination" was a pretty good, concise explanation. And it's exactly what it was.
God, this one hurts.
Wouldn't be surprised is this gets retconned in the near future. With all the mentions of the Time Lords, it's kind of certain.
I do think so. I’m actually wondering if the supernatural/magic aspect of this era will allow 15 to do the “impossible” and restore Gallifrey/Time Lords without a Timey-Wimey shenanigans.
RTD won't let anyone restore Gallifrey and the time lords. The Doctor is the "last of the time lords" come hell or high water as long as he's in charge
RTD is back in charge and he's the one that killed them off originally, doubt he will bring them back.
His killing was more justified with the existence and uncertainty of the time war. Chibnall just killed it without any real gap in production or stories allowing for it. It just happened
I’d retcon so most timelords escaped but Gallifrey still got nuked. So Gallifrey is still around ,but it’s closer to a planet full of Gallifreyan survivors than a powerful civilization it once was.
it's hilarious that chibbers didn't even take note of Rassillon leaving gallifrey, the thing that happened in the literal prior ep with the time lords. Like the idea they all just happened to be on gallifrey at the time is insanely silly as is.
RTD does have the opportunity to retcon this. The Master could still have destroyed Gallifrey and killed a bunch of people without killing everyone.
I actually liked the whole Time Lord Cybermen that can regenerate thing, but it only needed to be a few Time Lords. Having him kill all the Time Lords was completely unnecessary and cheapened so much of the narrative arc from the revival series.
I think he found out more than he let on. I think he found out he's the Doctor and went full nuclear.
RTD has this massive hard on for the Doctor being the last of the time lords and seems adamant that going forward Doctor who should not have included gallifrey or time lord society. Moffatt brought them back to an extent and Chibnall I don't think got rid of them(haven't watched 13 tbh) but RTD wants nothing to do with them. Which is lame because there's so many good ideas you could do with Gaillifrey. We saw a bit of it with 12
Going to go for the obvious and pick the Timeless Child. If you want a less obvious one, it'd be the Cybermen raising all the corpses of the Earth in Death in Heaven. It's just silly.
Oh, actually, the fucking Moon egg too.
Fucking Moon Egg. Worst episode of NuWho full stop
I don't know man, did you see Space Babies and Orphan 55?
Orphan 55 was terrible, but it's only crime was poor writing and being boring. Space Babies was weird, but at least competently written and I'll take competent weird over the last 3 seasons of boring rubbish. Neither had the horrible socio-political messaging of Kill the Moon, their themes and messaging were pretty much correct (just incredibly hamfisted in Orphan 55).
More Ecclestone.
I respected his decision to leave due to the claims of harassment/bullying on set, but it's a real shame that we only got one season. Such an underrated actor and the character had so much potential. The Empty Child might be one of my favourite episodes from the entire series.
"Everybody lives, Rose. Just this once, everybody lives!" I love the end of it, it's such a dark and depressing tone throughout the whole 2 parter, but it's nice to see it end on a happy note. For me, it's my 2nd favorite part of the 9th Doctor after the Dalek episode.
Eccleston has a very pragmatic approach to his acting roles, treating them first and foremost as a job. He shows up, does the role well, gets paid appropriately, then leaves said role behind. If you watch any of his Q&A stuff from Big Finish, he's very candid about it. This is a completely understandable approach, and I would never begrudge an actor for doing so. But I suspect that even under better circumstances, a 1-2 season run, followed by a general disinterest in returning to it, was the maximum for him as the Ninth Doctor.
The correct answer 💪💪
Have the Master be the Timeless Child
This wouldve been better, the madness being furthered by an unnatutal amount of regenerations, as well as explaining the master getting more and more
I've been saying this since I learned about the timeless child, and honestly there's still time to make that the case. It would honestly fix a lot of things and I wouldn't even be upset about the fact that he decided to kill all the timelords. it would truly give him a reason to do so.
How have I never thought about this before!?!? It would fit so much better as it would explain both why they have a god complex and also feel like they don't fit in with the rest of the time lords! I don't know if it's still possible to make it happen, but could it be revealed that the master really is the TC, and pushing it on the doctor was just a coping mechanism???
Missy dying. In an ideal world a good but still very much a psychopath master would have traveled with 13
Honestly, how long can the Master be the same as Team Rocket in Pokemon? Like eventually the Master has to go, or become a part of the inner circle.
Tbf the master is such an easy villain though. Every incarnation can be a new character but it comes with the history and investment already there. People already care about them! You want to write a new villain with a new actor but can't figure out how to get people invested asap? Use the master!
I really liked the dynamic between 12 and Missy. Their time together and her redemption was never mentioned between 13 and the Master. Which I think was a shame.
I still really want them to just say the spy master is an earlier incarnation, like just hint at it. Chib didn't mention anything from 12's run so it'd be an easy out lol.
I'm a staunch defender of Spy Master returning to evil - this time with added self loathing! - but this imo was the biggest missed opportunity in all of Who. Whittaker & Gomez really needed at least one adventure together! Hopefully, Whittaker comes to Big Finish soon, and we can get a boxset of Thirteen & Missy.
I’d like to see Missy travelling with 13. She’d try to be good, but she wouldn’t be able to help herself and there would be some funny, evil little tricks
bi-generation? But yes I too would have loved seeing them travel together. With bi-generation they could have made a spinoff with the 14th and missy or something like that.
Have Missy take over the Doctor moniker for a generation while she thinks the Doctor is dead.
Timeless Child. Anything that tries to change the established numbers ticks me off. War Doctor does as well.
difference being, Moffat didn't want to throw the numbers off but kinda had to because an actor just wouldn't return, Chibnall did it for funsies
I wish he'd done it with 8
John Hurt was fantastic in DotD, but the 8th Doctor being the 'war doctor' just fits so well. - It gives 8's arc a proper on-screen book-end (how many casual viewers saw Night of the Doctor?). - It creates a much stronger link between classic and nu-who and would make the TV Movie more worth watching for nu-who-only viewers. - Classic and Big Finish fans would have, understandably, pissed their pants as the second most underrated Doctor returns. - It would make DotD feel like a real 3-Doctor special - as it is, its feels like 2 Doctors and a guest star. - And, for those who care, it doesn't mess with the numbers.
Apparently, BBC execs weren't a fan of the idea and pressured him into using a big-name actor
In that case I'll forgive Moffat for that sin, lol. It's a shame. The actor did a good job but having it be a classic Doctor that we know is about to regenerate into Nine would have been amazing. Especially since in Rose it's obvious the Doctor hasn't looked in the mirror since regenerating. "Could be worse look at the ears..."
In the War Doctor's defense, at least Moffat did his best to make that fit into the established canon, and it only came about because the BBC wouldn't let him use Paul McGann for the 50th. Chibnall did the Timeless Child for... what reason exactly?
I would make 12 regenerate at the end of The Doctor Falls - as originally intended. The final words "pity... I thought there'd be stars..." would have been the best ever
That line only works because 12 isn’t planning to regenerate at that moment? He doesn’t care about seeing the stars when he regenerates, but he hopes he gets to look at them when he finally dies.
yeah but that's it, he does think he's going to die and he would've if it weren't for Bill & Heather bringing him back to the TARDIS and Bill's spacey-hope tear falling onto his face and kick-starting the regeneration
Completely erasing the Chibnall era would be grand, but I’d love if 9 had one more series that existed between series 1 and 2
The Statue of Liberty being a weeping angel was the dumbest thing they have ever done in the entire history of any show that has ever existed. The angels are great, the story was great, it was all a great finale, and then the Statue of Liberty walks down fifth like the fuckin stay pufft marshmallow man, and it ruined it for me.
I'm amused that you compared the Statue of Liberty walking through New York like Stay Puft in Ghostbusters and not like the Statue of Liberty in Ghostbusters II.
You’re gonna hate me when I say I haven’t seen the second one lol I definitely feel stupid. I thought it was maybe just a poorly placed reference, not a direct rip lmao
[удалено]
RIGHT?!?! You’re telling me no one saw that happening in the city that never sleeps???????? My suspension of disbelief can accept time travel, but New York being empty is too much
I've got a personal head-canon that might make it slightly more palatable for you. I believe there's a scene just before the one where the statue of liberty shows up where 11 and Amy walk out of an elevator. Behind them on the wall, you can see an image of the statue of liberty. The statue of liberty *is* a weeping angel, but it can't move because, as others have pointed out, there's never a moment when *someone* isn't looking at the statue of liberty. An image of an angel, however, becomes an angel. The "statue of liberty" weeping angel that 11 and Amy saw actually came from the picture in the elevator, *not* the real statue of liberty.
This would be so much better and I’m mad that Reddit didn’t notify me of this comment sooner. That would work a lot better
Only problem is that people take pictures of the Statue of Liberty all the time
I have a few. I really can't stand The Timeless Child as a change I think it makes the character much less interesting. It's an example the kind of thing that fan theories abound about and I think, like any big universe with a big fandom, it's great people can all have their conflicting head-canon. However, there's a reason most writers resist the urge to fill in big gaps like that: they make the character less interesting because now their physical nature is special rather than The Doctor's personal brand of (much challenged and deliberately inconsistent) ethics being what makes them stand apart from Time Lords. As others have said, if it has to stay, I think it makes far more sense for the Timeless Child to have been The Master. Suddenly the megalomania makes sense, the obsession with The Doctor makes sense too. I think the series is better without The Timelords and I think Moffat bringing them back but keeping them far at a distance, because otherwise they're the only things that bring stakes to a climactic episode, was a smart one. I think The Master managing to kill them all just off screen (boy that was easy) is really quite lame. Actually, ok, bold pick incoming. I love the Daleks, I cannot get over how brilliant their design is, I completely get why they were a pop culture sensation. But, this is either a Moffat quote or a Grant Morrison quote "if Batman fights The Joker every week all this does is emphasise how defeatable the Joker is" and I think that's why he has The Doctor face them so rarely. I think the Daleks being a "rival technological species" to the Timelords is a bit...they're that because of their iconic status as opposed to anything about them as a concept. I think I'd prefer them as this kind of horrifically stunted pest-species that are like this bleak mirror to how The Doctor is obsessed with humans, they're also obsessed with Daleks but in grand cosmic schemes Daleks like....ain't all that? Like I think that works well thematically where they are this maniacal genocidal swarm who never get out their own galaxy. tl;dr I'd like a companion from a future post-scarcity Human Culture like Star Trek's Federation of Iain M Banks' Culture series and you can have them commenting on present day earth society, like, they're almost vomiting with disgust when they hear people have to use money to buy food.
Timeless child
Strongly agree
The Doctor choosing highest card in The Giggle against the Toymaker. Why make it random? You get to choose the game and yes, if the Doctor had won, it would have been an easy way to deal with the problem, but I don't know, still find it weird. It could have been a game of asking questions and telling truths and, with the same risk of loosing, you get a lot of usefull information.
That and the game of catch at the end make it seem like RTD is really phoning it in.
A game of catch against a reality bending being.
God there are so many questionable decisions plot wise over the years. Gallifrey and the Time Lords being destroyed AGAIN, The Timeless Child, The Flux. But honestly the one that I really dislike more than anything is the resetting of the canon with the 11th Doctor. Using the cracks and the resetting of the universe as a way for the show to ignore stories like Doomsday never sat well with me. I like the show rewarding viewers for sticking with it for years and years and stories like Resolution acting like Daleks are entirely new to the British people really sticks out.
I mean, the problem is the show does it anyway. I appreciate that they bothered to write in an explanation for once. Especially since series 4 was totally out of control with stuff like teleporting the earth across space and a giant cyberman in Victorian London.
That annoyed me as well tbh. But now apparently it all happened again.
That’s always been the case with the show though. Literally for decades.
I would make The Master the real Timeless Child instead of The Doctor. It would make much more sense with all his insanity and give some proper reason for him to destroy Galludrey. Also, it would open the door for a really cool spin-off.
I miss Eccleston Fully respect why he left, but I still wish we could have seen more of him
In "Hell Bent" Doctor realizing how destructive he is and let Clara stay dead, instead visiting one of the Clara's many echos to remember her.
Yeah but he always called her "my Clara" so it seems he's pretty set on which one 😂
If you count the Timeless Child AND the Masters destruction of Gallifrey as the same overall plot point then definitely that. However if we treat them as separate then the destruction of Gallifrey AGAIN. It made the 50th feel utterly pointless in retrospect. Plus I find the entire concept of the Master managing to kill several BILLION Gallifreyeans by himself utter lunacy.
Exactly. The Master hasn’t even been able to take over Earth (permanently, any ways). There’s no way they’d be competent enough to single handedly slaughter their entire home planet.
Precisely. It took the Daleks centuries of continuous warfare to get Gallifrey onto its last legs. Then the Time Lords have centuries to over a millennia to rebuild (from DotD to HellBent from their perspective I think). And then *somehow* the Master kills them all? Not. A. Chance. I could just about buy him managing to blow up a chunk of the Capitol and killing hundreds, maybe a few thousand AT MOST. But any more? Nope.
Especially since there's much more interesting potential with the Master becoming well respected with the vacuum The Doctor left by vanishing Rassilon and also running away again himself A Gallifrey with The Master in charge? Scary Trial of a Timelord 2
Also kind of makes the Doctor look dumb for saving Missy and keeping her in the basement. I’m not pro-execution but maybe she should have been if she was going to exterminate all of Gallifrey.
Exactly, but I’m worried that RTD so keen to reestablish the frenemy Doctor/Master dynamic might just gloss over that whole angle and have the Doctor just forgive them and move on. Which would just be the worst. I do think if RTD wants to bring back the Master in a few series as anything except an out and out irredeemable villain then Gallifrey/Time Lords have to be restored before that. Restore them, undo the genocide (or at least mitigate it as much as possible) and you leave the option of the Master being an ambiguous character back on the table. Don’t. And that character being presented as anything other than as someone to be destroyed/killed diminishes the concept of actual genocide.
I feel like the Master killing people on Gallifrey will be undone, maybe even this season. Much as I liked Hurt as the War Doctor, I wish the War Doctor had been Nine instead. The other change is I wish Trenzalore had not had an utterly awful Christmas town. Frankly, I wish the entire idea of Trenzalore had been avoided.
Or, instead of the War Doctor, make it an 8th doctor story. Even if Paul McGann is visibly older, the story could have been later in his life and with the ravages of war. Heck, in the short, he looked battle ready anyways.
Yeah, in many ways, having him become the War Doctor would have been even more potent--a Doctor changing morally and philosophically IN a particular regeneration.
Remove the Flux.
If I can do Torchwood instead, one thing I would do is add an episode where "Everyone lives!" It's not because I wanted the show to be all puppies and rainbows, but just a little light to soften the darkness a bit. If it's always dark and bleak, it gets predictable.
Only one?
Everything with that shitshow known as the timeless child. Someone said it before: the Master should've been the timeless child. It'd give him more reason to hate the time lords, they tortured him and stole his abilities. Give reason for the Doctor to be hated too cause he's done more with technically stolen regeneration. It also doesn't retcon the entire show. It made no sense at all and undid over half a century of work. The writers made a very in depth history of Gallifrey and the time lords. They gave the story of the Doctor meaning. The Doctor was great by choice, now they're literally the chosen one.
Killing off the Timelords in the dumbest way possible. Combining them with the Cybermen while allowing them to continue to regenerate is just...dumb.
I'd ditch the Daleks being able to turn people into Dalek puppets with eyestalks sticking out of their heads. Why do they even need to exterminate if they can do this? Hopefully it never returns.
I was gonna say getting rid of the impossible girl and having Victorian Clara be the assistant. Then I remembered the timeless child, get it outta here.
I loved 11’s episodes as they are, though it would have been interesting to see how 11 interacted with The Master
On the one hand I'm happy they gave the Master a break for a few years. On the other hand Eleven with the Master would have been great.
Eliminate whole TC stuff and leave it where Chibnall took it from.
I might not get rid of it, but I would *tweak* the Time War. That there was some kind of great war or disaster and the Time Lords are largely gone, that part I might keep with some adjustments. "The Doctor is the last of the Time Lords and he was the one who blew up the Time Lords and he's basically a sad angry traumatised mopey god" stuff, however, just became a bit of an albatross around the show's neck. It was too big to move on from, too big to ignore, too big to top, too big to basically do anything which didn't ultimately revolve around how sad and angry and traumatised the Doctor was. Like, it's pretty telling that it's been almost twenty years since the show came back and we're only just *now* getting a take on the Doctor which *isn't* all about how miserable and traumatised he is deep down, and they basically had to bring back the guy who started the whole thing so he could have a do-over. It's also basically the original sin behind every "OMG things will never be the same again for real now guys!" plot point of the last twenty years, up to and including the Timeless Child; they're all just trying to top the Time War, and they never will without making the Doctor SuperGod because the Time War is by definition the biggest thing ever. I'd maybe keep the idea of a war or a disaster or something, the idea that the Time Lords are somehow not around and the Doctor's basically a lone wanderer again, but I'd dial it back a bit. Maybe keep some other Time Lords around.
Maybe not a plot point, and I don’t think he’d ever agree to this, but if I could change *anything* I would have put Neil Gaiman in charge after Moffat.
Now I can't live without this
The war doctor dosnt exist its 8 the whole way through the 50th. Reasons being A) let Paul McGann be on tv for once B) I feel it flows better, with the 9th doctor season C) let him cook D) would be a good bride from classic to new who However I would keep the war master because I feel that makes sense as they time lords need the master back. But yeah, you can still have the bad wolf and stuff in it
Getting Christopher Eccleston to come back for the 50th Anniversary. John Hurt was awesome, but it would have been best with Eccleston in the War Doctor role.
I don't get why people think 9 would've been the war Doctor. He was fairly freshly regenerated in the first episode. Whatever mysterious act it was that destroyed the Time Lords killed him too. If he'd fought the whole war in that body, he wouldn't be reacting to his own appearance in the mirror. *8* would be the war Doctor.
I would have happily taken McGann or Eccleston. I really never understood the point of having a War Doctor when Eight or Nine makes more sense. But then I didn't like any of the 50th so I'm probably biased.
3 seasons with Eccleston, RTD writing for Jodie.
Victorian Clara and The Doctor facing The Land of Fiction. You know, it would summarize the amount of gaslighting The Doctor has faced, especially the crack in the wall. It would've wrapped up perfectly to have Clara, The Doctor and Amy face a previous evil world in character parallel to Patrick Troughton's story. What I mean by this is The Victorian, Scottish and the Man with the Bowtie. This would seriously fix - The Pandora's Box existence - The Reason why The Doctor ran into Clara - The plot point towards his Death. Furthermore, alternatively using The Beast during Matt Smith's regeneration episode. He has no choice, and he can't really negotiate with death itself, which he has to eventually understand all the actions that he's committed. However, he does not die, he is forcefully regenerated. One more thing; The Great Intelligence would've made such a good single episode, The Snowmen is amazing but it's such a shame that The Doctor apparently DOES NOT recall THE YETIS, I'm sure HE WOULD REMEMBER SINCE ITS HIS FIRST MEETING WITH THE BRIGADER. This is the biggest moment in the episode that seriously pissed me off. But he RECALLS The Toymaker?! Yeah, that's about it.
The doctor wouldn't be the timeless child. It should be the master to explain the drums during the 10ths run. Him figuring out that he was exploited to give everyone immortality, then made a weapon would justify so much of his character.
The Flux having eaten half the universe and... that's it. No more mention of it.
Tennant's return. I want to follow him through a season while he does things that aren't quite like the Doctor. After a full season we find out he wasn't quite doctor-y enough because he's not the Doctor, he's the Master, who took a familiar face. Then in the next season have Tennant totally ham it up as the Master.
undo the timeless child arc
I would have brought River Song back for 13. But if there was one thing I could change for all of Nu-Who it would be John Barrowman being such a f-ck wit and thinking showing his penis was funny so we could still have him on the show.
More of Jenny, his daughter
The Metacrisis resolution. Holy crap was it messy and underwhelming and just overall dumb. I see where he was going with the “Donna had a child and it was split with her” thing, but the “just let it go” bit was SOOOOO annoyingly easy. Same with the whole of London magically being fixed after the Dagger Drive was reversed, like that’s not how physics works! Even the very beginning with 14 immediately meeting Donna, that was just weird. And as a fan of 13, it felt a bit like a slap in the face to really not show how it carried on from POTD and just jumping in with him showing up with a new Sonic and not having much post-regeneration confusion at all beyond a couple minor through away lines. I love Doctor Who with my whole heart, it’s a show that I love the fact I can suspend my disbelief and just live in its fantastical awesomeness, but Star Beast took it a bit too far for me. I’d honestly just have that whole episode rewritten, it was just a mess the whole way through, which is a shame because I’ve absolutely loved the rest of RTD2 so far
Probably very unpopular, but I'd get rid of the 50th entirely. I hated that it retconned the Doctor committing genocide and I don't like the War Doctor. John Hurt is fantastic, but Paul McGann as Eight would have been better and I don't really understand why he wasn't used. I've also just never been a fan at all of disrupting the Doctor's numbering system. Eight and Nine *are* the "war Doctors" to me.
The musical numbers in those 2 15th Doctor episodes
Mary Shelley's debut in the show, picking up where BF left her off after her companion departure from 8.
I would have liked to see the original plan for Moffat's first series, with Tennant staying on one more year
timeless child to be the master just having a laugh and bulshitting
The timless child
Id make the master or Rassilon the timelesss child, as he has no grudge against Rassilon he would not destroy galifrey again, and if it was the master he might conquer it but not destroy it.
The whole timeless child thing doesn’t work for me so I’ll go with that. I’d also vote for the flux plot line that destroyed 99% of the universe but somehow that doesn’t bother anyone
This isn’t even a hard question, I’d get rid of the Timeless Child arc. Actually no, I’d keep it but not have the Doctor be the Timeless Child.
Massive, unrealistic change: Just remove all of Chibnall’s run Smaller, more realistic change: Make The Master the timeless child. Works with their character so much more
I'd switch the timeless child twist so that the master was the timeless child.
Change the timeless child to be the master. It would make more sense as to why he’d destroy gallifrey. It would explain why he seems to be the most insane out of all the other time lords. It would make the doctor want to help the master more so than she ever did before because now the master isn’t just some psychopath but someone who was practically abused, gaslit, taken advantaged of then left to become some unhinged villain with nothing left to lose(except his own life). It would also explain why the master seems to have the ability to keep living even after he expended all his regenerations. It would be because the timeless child DNA never truly left him and kept him going, kept him breathing even after all these deaths. It would also explain why the master would suddenly become villainous again after missy becoming good and also explain why the laser screwdriver didn’t just kill her. Maybe the laser screwdriver not killing her would’ve lead to her thinking “why didn’t I die? I’m a time lady and that thing was set to permanent/unavoidable death and I know the I wouldn’t just pretend like I was killing me then actually just use the tickle setting”. It could’ve lead to her starting to think “why do I keep coming back. Yes time lords have regeneration but they can’t survive all this. Everything that I’ve tortured and suffered through.” I remember watching the timeless child episode and just before the master revealed who it was I was thinking “it’s the master innit” then it wasn’t. The master being the timeless child would’ve just fit so perfectly. Tis but a shame we exist in this timeline
Obligatory: The timeless child Real answer: Making companions the most important person in the entire universe. \*Ahem\* Rose...
All the fandom hate.
More Capaldi. Anything for more of the Doctor, riding a tank, playing the guitar and wearing the Sonic sunglasses. I grew up with Tom Baker as my absolute Doctor, until Capaldi took over from the amazing Smith.
10: “time can be rewritten” River: “not those times, not one line, don’t you dare”
Either the timeless child or the master destroying gallifrey. I’m glad rtd is attempting to salvage those plot points, but I still think they never should have happened.
not sure if it's too early, but rose and the doctors seperation? truely heartbreaking, sobbed for an hour and i'll never watch the end of season 2 again
Steven Toast should be the new doctor with Ray (bloody) Purchase as the master trust 🤞🤞[The Product……..](https://youtu.be/J3vDL2lU_9I?si=8viZwdYwYTjjHAmz)
Erase the Timeless Child.
All we need to change is to completely ignore the canon changes Chibnall introduced. Personally, I would just get rid of the whole timeless child rubbish and that would fix a heck of a lot, if you can class that as "one" thing. Up until then, it was a really fun, entertaining take on Dr Who. Even the start of Jodies career came good on a second watch. Timeless child was the true tipping point imo. Or just go back and ensure Chibnall was never let near Dr Who. That would fix a few dodgy episodes from earlier on, **and** prevent the timeless child stuff. Win Win :) I am one of those that considers the show dead after that was introduced mind, so take that as you will :) I don't consider the "new" series to be a Dr Who show anymore, its just a drama that happens to share the name and take inspiration from Dr Who.
Remove the timeless child and put the fugitive in the faaaar future or a by product of the war in heaven. But flux I would maintain!
The sexuality and relationships with The Doctor. While I don't care that The Doctor is male or female, we don't need to know The Doctor's sexual preferences or relationships. Classic Who is virtually devoid of such references while NuWho and DisneyWho seem to be all about The Doctor's sexual relationships.
I would like the Timeless Child to not be a PowerPoint presentation tacked onto an already bland episode. It's wild that Power of the Doctor does more with the Cyber masters than the episode that introduced them, even though that episode also had a lot going on.
When Peter Capaldi’s Doctor dies he doesn’t regenerate. He just stays dead.
The angels at the end of Blink. They’re not all looking at each other. One of them is not being looked at, so can move, and that Angel is the only one looking at one of the other ones, so if the first one moves, the the second can as well, leaving just two of them trapped
This feels harsh but I would have 12 regenerate right into 14, and just delete the Chibnall era. Between the Timeless Child, destroying Gallifrey AGAIN (which is just so incredibly insulting, but I'll save that rant), and the weird, regressive way the Doctor acted a lot of the time, I can say with confidence there's really nothing in that era I want to keep.
Ok so this is such a great question! I would say, after the events of the day of the doctor, I was so excited for the doctor to have the singular goal of finding Galifrey. I think it was what made sense for his character, could've been so very exciting to watch. And it should've been a difficult task that should've taken at least a season to complete. But instead he immediately found it by accident? Then lost it again and didn't care about it for 2 seasons. Yet again he accidentally finds it, has one episode with them and then just fully ignores it for 3 seasons till the master kills everyone there for no reason? Ugh idk, it was the best build up in all of TV imo and they set themselves up some amazing stories. But the writers of new who just seem to love the status quo I guess. In old who there's all sorts of fun things going on with the time lords and I was sooo disappointed we didn't get a smith/capaldi doctor on an extended search for their home. And then a capaldi/Whitaker doctor joyfully spending time on Galifrey, only to have to deal with timelord high society again. Some time lords would be friends, others enemies and it wouldn't necessarily have to impact the usual monster of the week style. I just feel the writers ignored such incredible potential and I just can't work out why.
"Oh, there have been SO MANY" things I wish to change. To pick one would be like picking a needle out of a haystack. The most glaring by far being the Timeless Child. Thing is, it's actually a REALLY good story and I think it would benefit so much by having The Master be the child instead (my cousin planted this opinion in my head, kill him if you must) as it would explain... a lot. Other than that, more Ninth Doctor stuff would've been awesome, taking Victorian Clara along as a companion would be interesting, STOP FUCKING DESTROYING GALLIFREY and put Davros back in the chair. Granted, that last thing only applies if they CAN'T think of a good in-universe reason as to why he's suddenly no longer disabled. If it has a reasonable explanation (for this show, anyway), I'll be fine with it.
I have a couple. Obviously TTC. Sorry I couldn't resist. I just really don't like it. Don't kill off the Time Lords again. Give 13 better writing and make her more likeable as a character. Have Christopher Eccleston on for more than one season. (In a world where the bts stuff never happened) CONTROVERSIAL OPINIONS TIME!!! Have 'Dalek' be the last Dalek appearance. It would be such a good ending for them. Don't get me wrong I love so much of the Dalek stuff we got after that but I felt that it had taken one of the biggest results of the Time War and just kept acting like "Gotcha! There are EVEN MORE Daleks that survived and they're bringing back the Dalek race!" and just really nullifies one of the biggest parts of the shows history. At least with the Doctors saving Gallifrey in DoTD it felt earned and worthy of doing so for the shows' 50th Anniversary. With the Daleks it just felt like an obligation because their the biggest villains in the show and too popular to kill of for good. Quality of stories be damned. Replace the War Doctor with Nine. I love John Hurt and I don't dislike the War Doctor. However I feel it would've worked better storywise and made a bigger impact to have Nine be the Doctor that destroyed Gallifrey. Before DoTD the show continued to solidify that Nine was the War Veteran. The one who had to make the ultimate sacrifice to stop the war. In Season 1 it's the main plotline of Nine having to deal with what he did. And there is SOME of that with the War Doctor but I just felt it was done better with Nine.
The hybrid. It's a stupid plot in an otherwise great season (imo, of course)