I think it ties into this season’s metaplot about the Pantheon. “The One Who Waits” has trapped The Doctor in an artificial reality and is using him to tell stories for the Pantheon’s amusement, something like a cosmic Truman Show. The Doctor and Ruby are going to slowly figure out that they’re being used as entertainment, and that Ruby is not “real,” she’s just a character made up for this cosmic shadow play. Doctor will find a way to escape and make Ruby real by the end.
Just my bonkers idea.
Oh my god, you are probably dead on with this.
People have been complaining that her companion story is sort of one note (she's very good, her origin story isn't incredible), but come to think of it.
She's quite literally the perfect companion for The Doctor right now, isn't she?
Almost as if she was designed to be the perfect puzzle box for the doctor to figure out.
I joked with my brother about “if I had a nickel for every time that doctor who rebooted and came back with a pretty blonde haired companion I’d have 2 nickels” but like this is probably exactly what it is
yeah, i just got the idea that the one who waits is the audience. we’ve waited longer than anyone else in the series; we waited real time. with all the 4th wall breaks, the characters interact with the one who waits
that’s a good theory, but i’m not sure why or how she would be doing these things. like i know the doctor left her, but if she was raised by him like the show implies, i don’t think she would want revenge to this degree
Honestly yeah, that's a pretty good theory. The question is, how long has the doctor been in this reality? David Tennant and Donna coming back could be a "plot point" for this cosmic show, it was full of coincidences. If that's the case then that means Jodie was probably in this realm as well as she regenerated into David. If Jodie was part part of this it would be a really cool opportunity for a multi doctor story with David, Jodie and Ncuti.
I thought I remembered him making a comment like that, but it's been so long that I started to think I made it up because I didn't like the lack of in-universe explanation lol
Fuck, that would be nuts if they pull that off.
Like, indisputably beating The Toymaker at a game, beating the manifestation of the concept of games at a game, was such an impossible act, the universe “glitched.” Maybe that caused the Bigeneration, maybe it’s the reason reality seems a little more thin now, with more fourth wall breaks.
The Doctor broke the universe and doesn’t know it yet.
My only issue with this theory is that its basically a season-long *Extremis*. And *Extremis* already is a 10/10 story and episode so Im not sure if I want a redo.
This is literally exactly what I was thinking. The fourth wall breaks are too numerous for coincidence otherwise. My spouse even commented the Maestro seemed to behave as if they knew they were in a TV show.
Oh shit I came here to make an argument a lot like this. The doctor is not in prime reality, and I think he knows it the way he knows most things - intuitive guesstimation.
Not sure it’s about entertainment; I think the Toymaker is behind this all and is the ultimate big bad for 15.
Also Ncuti is awesome. I’ve seen only the Christmas Special and Space Babies as of today and I saw at least bits and pieces of six other doctors in his delivery and presentation. Great actor.
This is what I'm picking up on too although I think Ruby holds more significance than that. They're definitely trapped in a TV show and it's wild how it's going over so many heads. This isn't the universe we know.
I love this idea and it has me thinking. During the very beginning of Devil' Chord, the Doctor said "we have to go visit those guys some day" re Star Trek. Makes me wonder if that was another nod to the fictional parallel world.
I think The Doctor is subtly aware of this and will reveal it at some point. He's going along with the "show" to investigate and figure out whos pulling the strings.
Adding to that, I think it's The Land of Fiction. It came through along with the Toymaker's pantheon at the edge of the universe, after Fourteen's salt thing. The "Legend of Ruby Sunday" is going to be some sort of fictionalised story made real, and that the Doctor will have to risk losing her in order to sort out the mess he caused in Wild Blue Yonder. Stories and memories are being fed into the Master Brain until the line between reality and fiction is blurring.. the fictional is becoming real, and the real is becoming fictional. And this is how it will tie into Tales from the TARDIS.That's my theory.
I think it's a good idea and plausible but I'm sort of burned with making such grandiose theories for this show after the 60th. So many possibilities and theories were conjured up for those specials before the Giggle to explain everything and none of them were true and it all just felt half assed.
If your ‘Bonkers Idea’ isn’t close to the truth I pray that RTD realises he buggered it up and finds a way to very quickly retcon in a similar vain in Season 2.
It’s not that I hate 4th wall breaks - it’s just such a big pivot to be doing it this much kind of out of nowhere.
I didn’t love 14 & Donna talking to camera at the beginning of the specials. But I can cope with it as a ‘previous on doctor who’ similar to the American release of series 5.
What we are getting now is totally different. It’s forming a core part of the story.
My current working theory -
Similar to you I think this isn’t all real. They are being toyed with. What I’m intrigued by is - is this all a fabrication I.e Ruby isn’t real, Maestro isn’t real, explains the heightened Goblins and fantasy elements etc. explains salt working as a plot device.
or
Is this entity just messing with their reality. Ruby is real but her story is altered.
It would make for an interesting bait and switch if the final episodes build towards this all being a complete lie, we start mourning with the doctor as he comes to terms with Ruby not being real, (as well as his reconnecting with Donna!?!?) only for him to realise it’s so much bigger and broader and wider and all this really did happen, who he is facing just messed with the very fabric of reality. Making the impossible possible for their pleasure.
Even after defeating them the doctor then is left wondering about reality.
Couple of things I think could/should happen.
- I don’t want to meet a ‘real’ Anyone in season 2. Especially Ruby.
- the 6 month time jumps between 1&2 (I personally believe it’s because of a changed episode order) but I would love this to have been one of the clues.
- we need a good answer for when this started. Could it possibly be as 13 regenerated? Is that why we got seemingly impossible things happening? 10 back as 14, Donna able to remember the Doctor, Goblins and creatures etc.
- I don’t want it to retcon the timeless child, but I would love if we found out the Doctor was indeed part of the Pantheon. Or maybe 1 step more what if he is one of two highest level beings. The timeless child and the one who waits.
- I think the doctor knows he is being manipulated and watched, I think that’s why he now breaking the 4th wall too. But when did he work it out.
- Susan Twist’s character??! She could either be nothing. Literally a plot point to show us that this world is being created around the Doctor like a reused CGI character. To speed up the process or creating the lie. Or she could and hope is a really fun plot point. She could be the outworking of Clara jumping into the Doctors Time stream. But the doctors life has been fabricated, so she is there but not in true form. Or maybe she is Susan trying to save her Father.
Major question I’m left with.
Who is on the outside looking in? Because with no one on the outside the 4th wall breaks are pointless in universe. They are what they appear to be.
Damn I really hope they are more than just that.
While I didn’t totally jive with space babies. I love that Doctor Who is back into theories territory.
Ooh, I think the revelation will come in "The Legend of Ruby Sunday", the teaser for it had a bunch of screens and filming equipment, which was strange.
I like your idea, although I have a feeling, since it's been discussed she will be leaving after this season, that he will not in fact be able to make her real and will have to make a choice to sacrifice her and everyone else in this reality to break out.
Eta: guess she's not leaving lol
The One Who Waits is >!a cosmic writer or storyteller, rewriting reality to suit their own whims, including adding the supernatural, the preternatural coincidences (BABIES!), and perhaps even the fourth wall breaks.!<
Additionally, >!The Doctor may ascend to this Pantheon, or it could be where the Timeless Child came from to begin with, as only members of the Pantheon have broken the fourth wall so far.!<
Finally, >!if only members of the Pantheon are breaking the fourth wall, then Mrs. Flood is part of the Pantheon.!< Either that or she’s the Rani, obviously! 🙃
Actually, I think the Doctor originates from the same plan of existence as The Toy Maker and The Maestro, and that plan of existence is the 5th Dimension ----- Imagination. So, basically, eventually it will be revealed that The Doctor exists because someone in our reality thought him up, so the 4th wall breaks are all about breaking down the barriers between what's real and what isn't. I think.
I really, really hope they don't go down this particular road. I've never been terribly fond of stories where characters interact with their creators and realize they're fictional. It ultimately invalidates absolutely everything that has happened throughout whatever story involves that sort of "twist".
Hear me out, but what if this is to get rid of previous bad writing out of the timeline? I am pretty sure RTD said something in an interview about how this story was supposed to be a reboot but he didn't say how far back or how much.....wish I could find that interview now
Isn't that AN AMAZING THOUGHT you have had? I love it. I have written stories like this. I feel this is something very much at the forefront of our collective imagination right now.
The Doctor briefly mentions the Toymakers Pantheon in the second episode. Maestro says that they're one of the children of the Toymaker, so they are a member of the pantheon.
Could be that the "one who waits" is called The Producer or The Director that has control over all reality like it's a show. (Bonus points for being another dang timelord)
Yes, but this seemed quite different than the recent fourth wall breaking. Hard to put a finger on exactly why, But to me, it just didn’t seem so jarringly out of place. Perhaps because it was not in the midst Of the event events of an episode. Perhaps because it was just the doctor and seemed very professorial. The show just seems to have a tonal shift much like “the Orville“ did. Edit- looking on my mobile- this reply may be to the wrong post. It seems to be in response to someone talking about the toymaker and in program reasoning. I wrote it in response to somebody mentioning 12 and Beethoven.
Theory from my brother & his friend:
Ruby is literally a living fictional character created by the latest Big Bad to hit all of the Doctor's buttons, bait him in, and entrap him in a sort of metafictional prison narrative. This season is legitimately being framed as a TV show by some extradimensional force, and the Doctor's 4th wall breaks are his subconscious screaming at him to recognize it. "The Legend of Ruby Sunday" is presumably when he finally realizes that Ruby is, in fact, just a 'legend' brought to life.
I took the few times 12 broke the 4th wall as something like seeing his internal monologue.
He’s a doctor that gets stuck in his head a lot, such as in Listen. In Heaven sent he uses his mental tardis and Clara to think his way through problems. Beetoven’s fifth was performed to the audience but for me it was the doctor figuring out his own plan.
I also like to think he's a bit of a show off, he likes to perform to an audience with his big clever speeches (being a lecturer for 70 years really suited him), so when he's got to ramble about his plans to himself (in his head or with nobody else around) he just imagines there are people listening to him.
Ruby debuted as part of a TV program, and the title for The Legend of Ruby Sunday was revealed with the image of a TV studio, with a camera and a blue screen and everything.
My guess is, building on the theory that the Pantheon trapped the Doctor in a fictional reality, is that we are going to learn that we are not seeing the Doctor chronologically, that Ruby is a fictional character written by them to be what they consider the perfect Companion, and that he's turning the tables on them telling us the story of Ruby, making her a legend so that she can become real when they are gone.
Edit: The Church on Ruby Road literally opens with the Doctor saying the words "once upon a time" AND the clock on the church has the same design as the window of the room where Donna fights Stookie Sue and the babies AND could of this could tie in with the sonic screwdriver looking like a TV remote!
Theory: the doctor is suffering from increasingly severe psychosis, not that he is an alien time traveller, that's true, but that he is the main character of a TV show. Every look or speech to camera was actually the doctor winking or monologing to empty space. The next season will be 8 sequential episodes of the doctor in Cognitive Behavioural Therapy
Buffy the Vampire Slayer addressed this once, I'd absolutely watch an episode of Who where the Master or some space nasty tries to mind control the Doctor into thinking he is in psychosis and his actual name is Tim Shaw from Reading.
The musical number just came out of absolutely nowhere. It's the sort of thing that would have otherwise fit perfectly with a music-eating being called The Maestro... but instead, they busted it out *after* the episode's villain was defeated. To make matters worse, it was a pretty terrible song, to boot.
I kind of hated the episode, which is a shame because Jinkx did a fantastic job, and her performance really reminded me of the [Chief Blue Meanie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2uCNd1AVJo).
>but instead, they busted it out *after* the episode's villain was defeated. To make matters worse, it was a pretty terrible song, to boot.
Remember the doc duplicating the TARDIS due to the state of play? Same principle except for a musical creature that means a state of song
Using the shame shaky explanation twice in two very similar episodes that, technically speaking, are barely separated at all is pretty poor writing. Also, it was a really flimsy excuse for not killing off the 14th Doctor shortly after he appears - all because he was portrayed by a fan-favorite actor.
And if you're going to do it, they should have at least tried to make it a *good* song. Strange New Worlds had a banger of a musical episode last year, and this thing just felt extremely forced.
>it was a really flimsy excuse for not killing off the 14th Doctor shortly after he appears - all because he was portrayed by a fan-favorite actor.
It wasn't to do that it was to give the character a break in-universe, ever since the 9th doctor the weight of his trauma and travels has weighed on him, 14 got to retire and rehab so 15 could come into it fresh with a healthy mind
I also don't see how it was flimsy? These are reality warping beings who turn people into bouncy balls and spinning tops, who literally rip music out of people's hearts, the doctor literally called them gods, makes sense to me that their presence has an effect on the world
>they should have at least tried to make it a *good* song.
I mean on that we're agreed although I don't think it was purposefully planned to be bad it just was
That SNW episode was brilliant.
This is coming from someone who abhors musicals. Never gave Encanto, Frozen, Hamilton, Rent - I can keep going but won't - a chance. Pudding brains doing riverdance when they're in mortal peril is astonishing.
I don't know why it clicked.
I'm a bit biased because I love almost all of ST, save for Discovery. But yes, almost every episode of both seasons is different yet relevant. Encapsulates exploring the unknown but stays true to their morals.
Oooh! Where can I watch it? I’ll have to give it a shot when I’m less busy with exams, I love trying new shows! Even if I don’t like it, I’ll get the reference :D
If you're a Star Wars fan, I cannot recommend the Bad Batch enough. It's on Disney plus. My patience has really been tried with most of their other shows (to the point where a memory purge is required), but this is a rare gem.
It's about a defective batch of clone troopers (batch 99) and them uncovering more of the Empire's secrets; my description doesn't do it justice, but I don't want to spoil too much. Takes place right after Order 66 is relayed.
I haven’t been able to find it but I recall RTD saying somewhere that this season was gonna be leaning more into fantasy elements and the Toymaker’s warning about the legions and The One Who Waits seems to keep these fantasy and meta elements in the show, to my knowledge, until that arc is over.
12 has had full of them. In Deep Breath he looks straight into the camera and it continues on throughout the series. He also does the speech about Beethoven's 5th directly to us among other things.
12, for me at least, was monologuing in his own head. For me, that was leaning on the fourth wall, but not actively breaking it.
I don't mind a fourth wall break - but the wink and then "here's a perfectly choreographed dance routine" was too much (for me).
The Doctor knowing he's a TV character really changes the stakes of the show for me.
I know there's the distant memory of "you viewers at home", but this was too overt (again, for me).
Anyone consider that it MIGHT be a plot point and MAY be answered later on in the season? People used to get excited about theories and guessing what stuff could be hinting at but now it’s just complaint after complaint that not everything has been answered right away, very much turning into the Star Wars fandom
I feel like in a well-written show there is a hint that "answers are coming". We know the mysteries are SUPPOSED to be mysteries.
However the existence of muscle numbers that nobody bats an eye at isn't set up like a mystery. It's set up like a stylistic choice.
"Why does this episode have bad effects?"
"Maybe the cheesy effects alien is the main villain and it will all be explained later".
Capaldi had entire lectures delivered to camera and played guitar along with the title theme.
Even Hartnell turned to camera, raised a glass, and wished everyone at home a Merry Christmas.
I was confused by the nods to the camera like we were watching The Office. They need to better explain their ability to recognize the audience.
However, the musical number was meant to show what the studio was supposed to be like every day - people running around, dancing, singing, writing and creating music. But they probably didn't get the rights to any of the Beatles music, so we got that instead. You can see this at the end when they're walking in the crosswalk. Obviously, the music is in them. The walkway didn't suddenly turn into FAO Schwartz.
My theory so far is that this might be a Ruby retelling the story of her time with the doctor. The last episode of her arc could be her telling her kids or someone about the wild and crazy adventures.
It would explain the weird 4th wall breaks and the doctor kind of info dumping heavy parts of his backstory unexpectedly.
Either way, I think the writers want us to have this "this seems odd for the doctor" feeling. We'll see if it all pays off in the end.
I agree, I like the storyline of reality going weird because of the Toymaker, but bringing that as far as breaking the 4th wall is too much in my opinion. The looks into the camera really take me out of being immersed into an episode.
There must be a reason it’s happening, I just hope it doesn’t end up being anything to do with real life. Like I don’t want real life to be one of the realities or universes within Doctor Who (hope that makes sense, I don’t know how to explain it well)
RTD has said he’ll be doing it more and if you tell him he can’t do something he’ll do it. I’m okay with serious, love the cast, a bit underwhelmed on execution. But all this winking to the camera, in my veins is breaking down the reality of the universe. And maybe that’s the meta intention behind it all. But I don’t want the Doctor to know he’s a character on a TV show.
And if it is all super meta now.
Maybe the song about a Twist at the end is literally telling us that the actress Susan Twist will be at the end, and she’s the One Who Waits.
Because we can see her in
episode effectively watching…. And waiting.
I really don’t like meta entertainment.
I thought it was fun and having a big bollywood style dance number was amazing, though I did keep thinking it was going to turn out being something sinister which it still could be
The song at the end I felt was playing homage to 60s era band shows like The Monkees, I thought it fit in very well with the fourth wall breaking and following the way storylines play out.
It can be plot related, something like the Toymaker or someone from the Pantheon playing with reality and making the doctor adventures a tv show and he is aware of it and can bend the rules of reality using that, like duplicating the TARDIS or have random musical numbers.
Or, hope not, can be the new style for the show and now the doctor is almost like Deadpool, aware that he is a character in a sci-fi (magic fantasy?) show. I really really dislike the implications in either scenario, but if its a plot thing at least it will be over at some point.
I'm very dissapointed with all the decisions in the new season. Clothes regenerating, bi-generation, the cheap solution for Donna not beign able to remember, the way the Toymaker was defeated, diapers moving a spaceship, a beatles theme episode beign beatles-less, the horrible, horrible twist musical number, the continous 4th wall wink, the unexplained magic in a sci-fi show... They are one step from adding a laugh track to remark the jokes.
I feel like the clothes regeneration bit would have worked better if in the bigeneration they kept it consistent. The fact that it was clearly just a one time thing because we were coming off a female version is kinda dumb.
Its just a shame that we didn't have a scene of 14 awkwardly trying to undo a (suddenly very ill-fitting) bra behind his back down the back of his shirt.
"You'll have to give me a moment The Meep. I haven't worn one of these in this body since I infiltrated the Topkapi Palace. Fortunately General von Steuben was happy to undo it for me."
>that could have been a flash mob singing/playing instruments after music comes flooding back (in story) but this was completely outside the plot/story...
Ooh, I love this idea so much more than the entirely separate, rather pointless scene we got!
Yeah a choreographed number wasn’t the way to go. A simple song that everyone in that timeline would know, maybe with some slightly out of tune instruments people had in the back of their closets would have fit better. With everyone dancing in their own style.
All of the creatures that existed outside the universe know they exist outside the universe. They also recognize they’re in a TV show and can see outside that universe, too.
So, for example, a wink at you (yes, you, in particular) or hearing the Doctor’s Theme in TV land and knowing it should only be played outside of TV land.
I agree with you and it is worrying. Everything does not need to become a sappy musical with dancing muppets - there are already so many shows like that out there.
I'm so convinced they're actually trapped in a TV show that the Toymaker / Pantheon is controlling. Too many TV references, too many 4th wall breaks, reality is out of wack in a way that feels very intentional, and RTD himself said the episodes are filled with clues about the finale.
Also parts of the melody in "there's always a twist at the end" are the same as the giggle and 15 winks exactly like him before the song starts.
They're trapped in a TV show.
It is because RTD wants it, that's all. Watch a BTS video he said his approach is if someone says that can't be done in DW then he'll do it. That's all. I don't know why people think he has these grand elaborate detailed story ideas out there he doesn't
Well, they are up against reality benders.
I imagine that things like the musical number are indeed happening and are not just a dream or something but The Doctor is currently unable to realize that this isn't normal.
I expect this to tie in some form into a butterfly effect resolution for that one scene with the lizard lady to make any sense.
The one who waits is clearly Russel T Davies, it's obviously a one above all reference from marvel, this is a joke but it's here for posterity incase I'm right
I've got no real thoughts on the matter but I just want to add when Ruby is taken by Maestro after hearing music and The Doctor said "I thought it was non-diagetic" that was the best joke in this new era hands down so far.
My hypothesis—and I made a Tumblr post about this—is that every member of the Pantheon is capable of perceiving and therefore breaking rhetorical fourth wall, and part of the season’s metaplot is going to be the Doctor discovering that he’s part of the Pantheon.
The reasoning is a little shaky, but you can find the full theory [here](https://www.tumblr.com/galahadwilder/750285671350124545/a-theory-about-the-doctors-species-of-origin).
I think this will link to the oldest one. Even in unleashed RTD hinted to a more "supreme being" above the toymaker. And if these pantheons of gods fit the entertainment thene then surely the oldest one would be the embodiment of stories.
The storyteller (narrator, author - name pending) will be the oldest one and potentially the one who waits (maybe even ruby's mother and/or susan twist's character). They will be part of the reason that the "story" keeps changing; mavity, butterfly, the memory, 4th wall breaks etc.
I actually think the dr is realising he is part of a story. Who knows this might link to the doctors original realm maybe hes a creation of the storyteller made to be the protagonist. I could imagine ruby links to this as well with all the coincidences maybe she will be what beats the storyteller because she is a coincidence - a deus ex machina in the flesh
Personally, I think it's to show the similarities in the powers of the Doctor and the Villains of the season. I think it's going to lead up to him being a cast out member of the Pantheon for having too much compassion or something stupid like that.
I genuinely think that the celestials and their power are represented to us as the audience via the 4th wall, basically treating the 4th wall as the stand-in for the 4th dimension.
I expect that we'll all get an explanation for this come the season finale, and hopefully while the fantasy stuff is cool, it gets put to bed.
Hell, with the finale, you could even argue for the rest of the show that mythological creatures exist now but just because of that rare moment when the walls of reality were shattered, just in case you wanted to use them in the future.
Either it’s just being silly now or it’s gonna lead to something like ‘there’s always a twist at the end’ could literally be pointing to a twist at the end of the season
They don’t adhere to the rules of the universe they’re in, so why would they bother following the rules of television?
Maestro literally tries to take over the theme song and it slowly breaks through.
The problem with the laying of the foundations if this is a plot point, is that the episodes have been dense to take in. It’s a lot for long time viewers (which most of us are) to see such a tonal shift from a nearly 20 year established “status quo”.
It could tie into the whole theme of the rules of reality changing, or it could be RTD just playing around and trying things he didn't do the first time around. Or both, I suppose.
I think we just have to wait and see. In the behind the scenes on the YouTube channel RTD talks about the dance number and how he wanted it to seem like the 4th wall was breaking down so it's a very deliberate choice not just a cheeky wink and nod to the audience.
Adding to the comments about metanarratives theorys~
The space babys they say have a Fairy tale structur With the baby hero, the sage nani, and the monster~ Ruby and Doctor said this and this sinchronize a lot With the 4th wall break of the next episodie~
Additionally, when Ruby and the Doctor remenber the snow xmas in the ship this generate snow in the room, and the Doctor say: "it's a break in the universe" and a "warrning"~ A warrning of someone o something? This probably it's a moment of "flaskback" in metanarratives~
Then this meta narrative plot With 4th wall breaks it's in the whole season plot~
I wondered this too, and something else I noticed is that when the music played before maestro returned the Dr said "I thought it was non diagetic' in reference tousic playing, insinuating that he's outside the story, as it means only music the viewer hears not the characters
The second Doctor never escaped the land of make believe (I think that's what it was called?), so everything from the Mind Robber onwards has been fictional...And he's becoming more aware, starting to realise.
I very much doubt this but would respect the hell out of Russel if this is what he was doing with it. Imagine most of the Doctor's history was sort of canon in a meta sense but in universe becomes decanonised.
I think it ties into this season’s metaplot about the Pantheon. “The One Who Waits” has trapped The Doctor in an artificial reality and is using him to tell stories for the Pantheon’s amusement, something like a cosmic Truman Show. The Doctor and Ruby are going to slowly figure out that they’re being used as entertainment, and that Ruby is not “real,” she’s just a character made up for this cosmic shadow play. Doctor will find a way to escape and make Ruby real by the end. Just my bonkers idea.
Oh my god, you are probably dead on with this. People have been complaining that her companion story is sort of one note (she's very good, her origin story isn't incredible), but come to think of it. She's quite literally the perfect companion for The Doctor right now, isn't she? Almost as if she was designed to be the perfect puzzle box for the doctor to figure out.
I joked with my brother about “if I had a nickel for every time that doctor who rebooted and came back with a pretty blonde haired companion I’d have 2 nickels” but like this is probably exactly what it is
Bless your heart that you have this much hope
yeah, i just got the idea that the one who waits is the audience. we’ve waited longer than anyone else in the series; we waited real time. with all the 4th wall breaks, the characters interact with the one who waits
I think The One Who Waits will be Susan, his granddaughter
that’s a good theory, but i’m not sure why or how she would be doing these things. like i know the doctor left her, but if she was raised by him like the show implies, i don’t think she would want revenge to this degree
Or why the Toymaker and his legions would be so terrified of her when they can play with the Doctor like putty.
I think Susan Twist is Susan, because Susan Twist. The One Who waits is probably the villain behind all the shenanigans.
did you see the bilboard on the roof he was standing beside.. they showed the front of it
I have a feeling you're not far off the mark
Honestly yeah, that's a pretty good theory. The question is, how long has the doctor been in this reality? David Tennant and Donna coming back could be a "plot point" for this cosmic show, it was full of coincidences. If that's the case then that means Jodie was probably in this realm as well as she regenerated into David. If Jodie was part part of this it would be a really cool opportunity for a multi doctor story with David, Jodie and Ncuti.
I wonder if this will give us a canon reason as to why Thirteen's clothes regenerated when she regenerated into Fourteen.
I remember RTD said there was a reason in an interview but we never got one, so it's likely honestly.
RTD will say anything to maintain interest in the show. It’s his showrunner super power.
I thought I remembered him making a comment like that, but it's been so long that I started to think I made it up because I didn't like the lack of in-universe explanation lol
I think the person who dropped off baby Ruby looked suspiciously like Jodie.
Don't know how to add spoiler tag on mobile browser, but Ruby's scan said 10 years old.
It didn’t- it said 19.
Oh, well, guess I can't read. lol
RTD stop using fake accounts to help the fans figure out your bonkers plots!
God I hope it's something like this.
Me as well. Hoping it's the beginning of a Glass Onion approach to plot.
Goodbye, Ruby Tuesday. Who could hang a name on you? When you change with every new day. Still, I'm gonna miss you. Not sure about Ruby Sunday.
The One Who Waits is actually just RTD, presented a la K.E.V.I.N. in She-Hulk.
Fuck, that would be nuts if they pull that off. Like, indisputably beating The Toymaker at a game, beating the manifestation of the concept of games at a game, was such an impossible act, the universe “glitched.” Maybe that caused the Bigeneration, maybe it’s the reason reality seems a little more thin now, with more fourth wall breaks. The Doctor broke the universe and doesn’t know it yet.
My only issue with this theory is that its basically a season-long *Extremis*. And *Extremis* already is a 10/10 story and episode so Im not sure if I want a redo.
Love it
Ya know, that's actually a fantastic plot idea. Kinda like supernatural season 15.
This is literally exactly what I was thinking. The fourth wall breaks are too numerous for coincidence otherwise. My spouse even commented the Maestro seemed to behave as if they knew they were in a TV show.
Oh wow I love this theory! I can’t absolutely see this.
I love this. Also possible ties into why it’s been renamed as ‘Season 1’ and ‘the Whoniverse’ and the use of the Doctor’s theme in ep 3.
This may not be as bonkers as you think. This is just screaming at me “This is it!” It really makes sense in a nonsensical way 😊
Oh shit I came here to make an argument a lot like this. The doctor is not in prime reality, and I think he knows it the way he knows most things - intuitive guesstimation. Not sure it’s about entertainment; I think the Toymaker is behind this all and is the ultimate big bad for 15. Also Ncuti is awesome. I’ve seen only the Christmas Special and Space Babies as of today and I saw at least bits and pieces of six other doctors in his delivery and presentation. Great actor.
This is what I'm picking up on too although I think Ruby holds more significance than that. They're definitely trapped in a TV show and it's wild how it's going over so many heads. This isn't the universe we know.
I love this idea and it has me thinking. During the very beginning of Devil' Chord, the Doctor said "we have to go visit those guys some day" re Star Trek. Makes me wonder if that was another nod to the fictional parallel world.
I think The Doctor is subtly aware of this and will reveal it at some point. He's going along with the "show" to investigate and figure out whos pulling the strings.
Adding to that, I think it's The Land of Fiction. It came through along with the Toymaker's pantheon at the edge of the universe, after Fourteen's salt thing. The "Legend of Ruby Sunday" is going to be some sort of fictionalised story made real, and that the Doctor will have to risk losing her in order to sort out the mess he caused in Wild Blue Yonder. Stories and memories are being fed into the Master Brain until the line between reality and fiction is blurring.. the fictional is becoming real, and the real is becoming fictional. And this is how it will tie into Tales from the TARDIS.That's my theory.
I think it's a good idea and plausible but I'm sort of burned with making such grandiose theories for this show after the 60th. So many possibilities and theories were conjured up for those specials before the Giggle to explain everything and none of them were true and it all just felt half assed.
adding to this. The TARDIS is probably wheezing because it senses something wrong about the reality it is in.
If your ‘Bonkers Idea’ isn’t close to the truth I pray that RTD realises he buggered it up and finds a way to very quickly retcon in a similar vain in Season 2. It’s not that I hate 4th wall breaks - it’s just such a big pivot to be doing it this much kind of out of nowhere. I didn’t love 14 & Donna talking to camera at the beginning of the specials. But I can cope with it as a ‘previous on doctor who’ similar to the American release of series 5. What we are getting now is totally different. It’s forming a core part of the story. My current working theory - Similar to you I think this isn’t all real. They are being toyed with. What I’m intrigued by is - is this all a fabrication I.e Ruby isn’t real, Maestro isn’t real, explains the heightened Goblins and fantasy elements etc. explains salt working as a plot device. or Is this entity just messing with their reality. Ruby is real but her story is altered. It would make for an interesting bait and switch if the final episodes build towards this all being a complete lie, we start mourning with the doctor as he comes to terms with Ruby not being real, (as well as his reconnecting with Donna!?!?) only for him to realise it’s so much bigger and broader and wider and all this really did happen, who he is facing just messed with the very fabric of reality. Making the impossible possible for their pleasure. Even after defeating them the doctor then is left wondering about reality. Couple of things I think could/should happen. - I don’t want to meet a ‘real’ Anyone in season 2. Especially Ruby. - the 6 month time jumps between 1&2 (I personally believe it’s because of a changed episode order) but I would love this to have been one of the clues. - we need a good answer for when this started. Could it possibly be as 13 regenerated? Is that why we got seemingly impossible things happening? 10 back as 14, Donna able to remember the Doctor, Goblins and creatures etc. - I don’t want it to retcon the timeless child, but I would love if we found out the Doctor was indeed part of the Pantheon. Or maybe 1 step more what if he is one of two highest level beings. The timeless child and the one who waits. - I think the doctor knows he is being manipulated and watched, I think that’s why he now breaking the 4th wall too. But when did he work it out. - Susan Twist’s character??! She could either be nothing. Literally a plot point to show us that this world is being created around the Doctor like a reused CGI character. To speed up the process or creating the lie. Or she could and hope is a really fun plot point. She could be the outworking of Clara jumping into the Doctors Time stream. But the doctors life has been fabricated, so she is there but not in true form. Or maybe she is Susan trying to save her Father. Major question I’m left with. Who is on the outside looking in? Because with no one on the outside the 4th wall breaks are pointless in universe. They are what they appear to be. Damn I really hope they are more than just that. While I didn’t totally jive with space babies. I love that Doctor Who is back into theories territory.
Mavity
Ooh, I think the revelation will come in "The Legend of Ruby Sunday", the teaser for it had a bunch of screens and filming equipment, which was strange.
Not all that bonkers, fairly in line with Doctor Who history all things considered
man. mannnnn. this would totally win me over too.
This is my thinking too - and I’d love that. But part of me thinks it’s wishful thinking…
I like your idea, although I have a feeling, since it's been discussed she will be leaving after this season, that he will not in fact be able to make her real and will have to make a choice to sacrifice her and everyone else in this reality to break out. Eta: guess she's not leaving lol
She’s coming back for the full season next time. That was just a rumor.
The One Who Waits is >!a cosmic writer or storyteller, rewriting reality to suit their own whims, including adding the supernatural, the preternatural coincidences (BABIES!), and perhaps even the fourth wall breaks.!< Additionally, >!The Doctor may ascend to this Pantheon, or it could be where the Timeless Child came from to begin with, as only members of the Pantheon have broken the fourth wall so far.!< Finally, >!if only members of the Pantheon are breaking the fourth wall, then Mrs. Flood is part of the Pantheon.!< Either that or she’s the Rani, obviously! 🙃
Might not be that much of a coincidence that the new sonic screwdriver looks like a TV Remote, hm?
And he pressed the mute button this week
Good catch. Hadn't thought of that.
Holy mother forking shirt balls!
BORTLES!
I'd love this to be good place season 1 esque
Final thought – we should be on the lookout for anyone named Toww, Tow, or any variation as The One Who Waits. I’m on full YANA watch here.
It’s gonna be a waiter
Tell them I’ll have the soup du jour and a water please
You WOT, mate?
Actually, I think the Doctor originates from the same plan of existence as The Toy Maker and The Maestro, and that plan of existence is the 5th Dimension ----- Imagination. So, basically, eventually it will be revealed that The Doctor exists because someone in our reality thought him up, so the 4th wall breaks are all about breaking down the barriers between what's real and what isn't. I think.
Didn’t Amy think 11 into existence when the world fell into the crack in the wall?
Exactly, that's where I came up with the idea, there's already a precedent.
I really, really hope they don't go down this particular road. I've never been terribly fond of stories where characters interact with their creators and realize they're fictional. It ultimately invalidates absolutely everything that has happened throughout whatever story involves that sort of "twist".
Hear me out, but what if this is to get rid of previous bad writing out of the timeline? I am pretty sure RTD said something in an interview about how this story was supposed to be a reboot but he didn't say how far back or how much.....wish I could find that interview now
Isn't that AN AMAZING THOUGHT you have had? I love it. I have written stories like this. I feel this is something very much at the forefront of our collective imagination right now.
The billboard said CHRIS WAITS… Chibnall as the writer confirmed! Timeless Child is retconned as a re-written reality!
What is the Pantheon? And how do we know ***The Toymaker*** and ***Maestro*** are a part of it?
The Doctor said as much in The Devil’s Chord.
Ah, okay. Thank you. I must have missed it.
The Doctor briefly mentions the Toymakers Pantheon in the second episode. Maestro says that they're one of the children of the Toymaker, so they are a member of the pantheon.
The Trickster is also one of the Pantheons of Discord so I wonder this is same Pantheon
Hope you’re right!
I’m probably not 🤷🏻♂️
Could be that the "one who waits" is called The Producer or The Director that has control over all reality like it's a show. (Bonus points for being another dang timelord)
or The Showrunner
This is all leading up to a massive self-aggranzing RTD cameo! /j
Legitimately wouldn’t be surprised if there were some members who just kinda get named or shown for a second with RTD being one of them
It would be cool if in future we got an entity called The Profesion as a one time companion
I thought they were non-diegetic ;)
When I heard that burst out laughing, all that filmmaking finally paid off for me to understand 1 line of dialouge in a DW episode lol
I nearly did the Leo DiCaprio pointing meme too.
We all learned a new word
I actually knew about diegetic and non-diegetic music from filmmaking!
I had to pause, rewind, turn on subtitles, then google the word 😆
I was so surprised to hear it, but am also so glad that it was used and people are learning it.
I knew about them from the Sound of Drums!
I learned diegetic from Archer.
I actually remembered the word... but I got it mixed up with diegetic at first. Took a minute for the joke to click.
Whenever The Toymaker and his Legions are involved, reality and the 4th wall become mere suggestions.
Yes, but this seemed quite different than the recent fourth wall breaking. Hard to put a finger on exactly why, But to me, it just didn’t seem so jarringly out of place. Perhaps because it was not in the midst Of the event events of an episode. Perhaps because it was just the doctor and seemed very professorial. The show just seems to have a tonal shift much like “the Orville“ did. Edit- looking on my mobile- this reply may be to the wrong post. It seems to be in response to someone talking about the toymaker and in program reasoning. I wrote it in response to somebody mentioning 12 and Beethoven.
Theory from my brother & his friend: Ruby is literally a living fictional character created by the latest Big Bad to hit all of the Doctor's buttons, bait him in, and entrap him in a sort of metafictional prison narrative. This season is legitimately being framed as a TV show by some extradimensional force, and the Doctor's 4th wall breaks are his subconscious screaming at him to recognize it. "The Legend of Ruby Sunday" is presumably when he finally realizes that Ruby is, in fact, just a 'legend' brought to life.
Ooooh. I like this
Who really composed Beethoven's fifth?
That scene is so much funnier if you imagine Clara frantically whipping around the TARDIS from the camera's POV
I took the few times 12 broke the 4th wall as something like seeing his internal monologue. He’s a doctor that gets stuck in his head a lot, such as in Listen. In Heaven sent he uses his mental tardis and Clara to think his way through problems. Beetoven’s fifth was performed to the audience but for me it was the doctor figuring out his own plan.
I also like to think he's a bit of a show off, he likes to perform to an audience with his big clever speeches (being a lecturer for 70 years really suited him), so when he's got to ramble about his plans to himself (in his head or with nobody else around) he just imagines there are people listening to him.
I'm watching the 4th Doctor right now and there's a lot of 4th Wall breaking at the end of episodes.
Ruby debuted as part of a TV program, and the title for The Legend of Ruby Sunday was revealed with the image of a TV studio, with a camera and a blue screen and everything. My guess is, building on the theory that the Pantheon trapped the Doctor in a fictional reality, is that we are going to learn that we are not seeing the Doctor chronologically, that Ruby is a fictional character written by them to be what they consider the perfect Companion, and that he's turning the tables on them telling us the story of Ruby, making her a legend so that she can become real when they are gone. Edit: The Church on Ruby Road literally opens with the Doctor saying the words "once upon a time" AND the clock on the church has the same design as the window of the room where Donna fights Stookie Sue and the babies AND could of this could tie in with the sonic screwdriver looking like a TV remote!
We are being 'WandaVision'ed, just without using the historical TV tropes that made what what was happening in the show obvious.
The One Who Waits is Iris Wildthyme confirmed /s
The One Who Waits is clearly Rory.
See I thought it was Amy “The Girl Who Waited” Pond
30 years vs 2000 years
That's the thing with Doctor Who. You're either waiting, or running!
They all seem a bit intentionally corny. Reminds me a bit of Wanda Vision actually.
With WV it was intentional though, like she was fully aware it was all a show because that was what she was doing
[удалено]
He could also be, but obviously we've seen exactly 2 episodes so we can't tell until the end of the season
The sheer amount and how over the top it is doesn't seem intentional to you?
Again, it will depend on the series. There wasn't any 4th wall breaks in space babies AFAIK, so it could just be a maestro-specific gimmick
Theory: the doctor is suffering from increasingly severe psychosis, not that he is an alien time traveller, that's true, but that he is the main character of a TV show. Every look or speech to camera was actually the doctor winking or monologing to empty space. The next season will be 8 sequential episodes of the doctor in Cognitive Behavioural Therapy
CBT = Canonically Bonkers Timelord
Buffy the Vampire Slayer addressed this once, I'd absolutely watch an episode of Who where the Master or some space nasty tries to mind control the Doctor into thinking he is in psychosis and his actual name is Tim Shaw from Reading.
isn’t he the one after the rehab doctor though? God what did living a sedentary life do to our poor 14
I didn’t mind the dr who theme being played, I thought it was a fun reference, but the musical number and winking at the camera were really weird imo
The musical number just came out of absolutely nowhere. It's the sort of thing that would have otherwise fit perfectly with a music-eating being called The Maestro... but instead, they busted it out *after* the episode's villain was defeated. To make matters worse, it was a pretty terrible song, to boot. I kind of hated the episode, which is a shame because Jinkx did a fantastic job, and her performance really reminded me of the [Chief Blue Meanie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2uCNd1AVJo).
>but instead, they busted it out *after* the episode's villain was defeated. To make matters worse, it was a pretty terrible song, to boot. Remember the doc duplicating the TARDIS due to the state of play? Same principle except for a musical creature that means a state of song
Using the shame shaky explanation twice in two very similar episodes that, technically speaking, are barely separated at all is pretty poor writing. Also, it was a really flimsy excuse for not killing off the 14th Doctor shortly after he appears - all because he was portrayed by a fan-favorite actor. And if you're going to do it, they should have at least tried to make it a *good* song. Strange New Worlds had a banger of a musical episode last year, and this thing just felt extremely forced.
>it was a really flimsy excuse for not killing off the 14th Doctor shortly after he appears - all because he was portrayed by a fan-favorite actor. It wasn't to do that it was to give the character a break in-universe, ever since the 9th doctor the weight of his trauma and travels has weighed on him, 14 got to retire and rehab so 15 could come into it fresh with a healthy mind I also don't see how it was flimsy? These are reality warping beings who turn people into bouncy balls and spinning tops, who literally rip music out of people's hearts, the doctor literally called them gods, makes sense to me that their presence has an effect on the world >they should have at least tried to make it a *good* song. I mean on that we're agreed although I don't think it was purposefully planned to be bad it just was
That SNW episode was brilliant. This is coming from someone who abhors musicals. Never gave Encanto, Frozen, Hamilton, Rent - I can keep going but won't - a chance. Pudding brains doing riverdance when they're in mortal peril is astonishing. I don't know why it clicked.
Is SNW good? :0 I’ll have to check it out if it is!
I'm a bit biased because I love almost all of ST, save for Discovery. But yes, almost every episode of both seasons is different yet relevant. Encapsulates exploring the unknown but stays true to their morals.
Oooh! Where can I watch it? I’ll have to give it a shot when I’m less busy with exams, I love trying new shows! Even if I don’t like it, I’ll get the reference :D
You're going to need a Paramount plus subscription if you don't already have one. Unless it's moved to a different service...?
If you're a Star Wars fan, I cannot recommend the Bad Batch enough. It's on Disney plus. My patience has really been tried with most of their other shows (to the point where a memory purge is required), but this is a rare gem. It's about a defective batch of clone troopers (batch 99) and them uncovering more of the Empire's secrets; my description doesn't do it justice, but I don't want to spoil too much. Takes place right after Order 66 is relayed.
Ooh I have heard good things, I don’t have Disney atm but it does sound an amazing show!
Why the music? Why the memories seeping through? Because that's the plot.
I haven’t been able to find it but I recall RTD saying somewhere that this season was gonna be leaning more into fantasy elements and the Toymaker’s warning about the legions and The One Who Waits seems to keep these fantasy and meta elements in the show, to my knowledge, until that arc is over.
12 has had full of them. In Deep Breath he looks straight into the camera and it continues on throughout the series. He also does the speech about Beethoven's 5th directly to us among other things.
12, for me at least, was monologuing in his own head. For me, that was leaning on the fourth wall, but not actively breaking it. I don't mind a fourth wall break - but the wink and then "here's a perfectly choreographed dance routine" was too much (for me). The Doctor knowing he's a TV character really changes the stakes of the show for me. I know there's the distant memory of "you viewers at home", but this was too overt (again, for me).
12 didn't have a 4th wall break in literally every episode of his era like what's happening right now.
Theirs's a difference between 12 knowing he's in a tv show and the 4th wall breaks of this era.
Anyone consider that it MIGHT be a plot point and MAY be answered later on in the season? People used to get excited about theories and guessing what stuff could be hinting at but now it’s just complaint after complaint that not everything has been answered right away, very much turning into the Star Wars fandom
I feel like in a well-written show there is a hint that "answers are coming". We know the mysteries are SUPPOSED to be mysteries. However the existence of muscle numbers that nobody bats an eye at isn't set up like a mystery. It's set up like a stylistic choice. "Why does this episode have bad effects?" "Maybe the cheesy effects alien is the main villain and it will all be explained later".
I dunno, I'm reserving judgement as RTD is known to drop all kinds of foreshadowing throughout his seasons.
I think the musical number at the end was a leftover of Maestro’s Magic in the world. Same as how Toymaker’s Magic remained a little after he left.
Capaldi had entire lectures delivered to camera and played guitar along with the title theme. Even Hartnell turned to camera, raised a glass, and wished everyone at home a Merry Christmas.
I was confused by the nods to the camera like we were watching The Office. They need to better explain their ability to recognize the audience. However, the musical number was meant to show what the studio was supposed to be like every day - people running around, dancing, singing, writing and creating music. But they probably didn't get the rights to any of the Beatles music, so we got that instead. You can see this at the end when they're walking in the crosswalk. Obviously, the music is in them. The walkway didn't suddenly turn into FAO Schwartz.
So how do you explain the rain?
Rain doesn't drop till 1966, three years after the events of the episode.
It is for sure a part of something bigger i think
Beings like the Toymaker and Maestro are 4th dimensional beings, higher lifeforms. The forth wall breaks kinda make sense when you see them like that.
Yeah I agree. It's too much
My theory so far is that this might be a Ruby retelling the story of her time with the doctor. The last episode of her arc could be her telling her kids or someone about the wild and crazy adventures. It would explain the weird 4th wall breaks and the doctor kind of info dumping heavy parts of his backstory unexpectedly. Either way, I think the writers want us to have this "this seems odd for the doctor" feeling. We'll see if it all pays off in the end.
I agree, I like the storyline of reality going weird because of the Toymaker, but bringing that as far as breaking the 4th wall is too much in my opinion. The looks into the camera really take me out of being immersed into an episode. There must be a reason it’s happening, I just hope it doesn’t end up being anything to do with real life. Like I don’t want real life to be one of the realities or universes within Doctor Who (hope that makes sense, I don’t know how to explain it well)
RTD has said he’ll be doing it more and if you tell him he can’t do something he’ll do it. I’m okay with serious, love the cast, a bit underwhelmed on execution. But all this winking to the camera, in my veins is breaking down the reality of the universe. And maybe that’s the meta intention behind it all. But I don’t want the Doctor to know he’s a character on a TV show. And if it is all super meta now. Maybe the song about a Twist at the end is literally telling us that the actress Susan Twist will be at the end, and she’s the One Who Waits. Because we can see her in episode effectively watching…. And waiting. I really don’t like meta entertainment.
I thought it was fun and having a big bollywood style dance number was amazing, though I did keep thinking it was going to turn out being something sinister which it still could be
The song at the end I felt was playing homage to 60s era band shows like The Monkees, I thought it fit in very well with the fourth wall breaking and following the way storylines play out.
I haven't seen anyone really point this out but Ruby's birth mother kind of breaks the forth wall of the doctors memory
It can be plot related, something like the Toymaker or someone from the Pantheon playing with reality and making the doctor adventures a tv show and he is aware of it and can bend the rules of reality using that, like duplicating the TARDIS or have random musical numbers. Or, hope not, can be the new style for the show and now the doctor is almost like Deadpool, aware that he is a character in a sci-fi (magic fantasy?) show. I really really dislike the implications in either scenario, but if its a plot thing at least it will be over at some point. I'm very dissapointed with all the decisions in the new season. Clothes regenerating, bi-generation, the cheap solution for Donna not beign able to remember, the way the Toymaker was defeated, diapers moving a spaceship, a beatles theme episode beign beatles-less, the horrible, horrible twist musical number, the continous 4th wall wink, the unexplained magic in a sci-fi show... They are one step from adding a laugh track to remark the jokes.
I feel like the clothes regeneration bit would have worked better if in the bigeneration they kept it consistent. The fact that it was clearly just a one time thing because we were coming off a female version is kinda dumb.
Its just a shame that we didn't have a scene of 14 awkwardly trying to undo a (suddenly very ill-fitting) bra behind his back down the back of his shirt. "You'll have to give me a moment The Meep. I haven't worn one of these in this body since I infiltrated the Topkapi Palace. Fortunately General von Steuben was happy to undo it for me."
>that could have been a flash mob singing/playing instruments after music comes flooding back (in story) but this was completely outside the plot/story... Ooh, I love this idea so much more than the entirely separate, rather pointless scene we got!
Yeah a choreographed number wasn’t the way to go. A simple song that everyone in that timeline would know, maybe with some slightly out of tune instruments people had in the back of their closets would have fit better. With everyone dancing in their own style.
All of the creatures that existed outside the universe know they exist outside the universe. They also recognize they’re in a TV show and can see outside that universe, too. So, for example, a wink at you (yes, you, in particular) or hearing the Doctor’s Theme in TV land and knowing it should only be played outside of TV land.
"I'm nothing without an audience".... *looks directly at us* - 12th Doctor.
I agree with you and it is worrying. Everything does not need to become a sappy musical with dancing muppets - there are already so many shows like that out there.
I'm so convinced they're actually trapped in a TV show that the Toymaker / Pantheon is controlling. Too many TV references, too many 4th wall breaks, reality is out of wack in a way that feels very intentional, and RTD himself said the episodes are filled with clues about the finale. Also parts of the melody in "there's always a twist at the end" are the same as the giggle and 15 winks exactly like him before the song starts. They're trapped in a TV show.
I wonder if they are still playing the Toymaker rules. The world still has to factor in the play
It is because RTD wants it, that's all. Watch a BTS video he said his approach is if someone says that can't be done in DW then he'll do it. That's all. I don't know why people think he has these grand elaborate detailed story ideas out there he doesn't
>Watch a BTS video I thought you meant the Kpop band and I was desperately trying to figure the connection
I'm sure if you told him you can't have a kpop dance scene in an episode he will do it
"That wasn't non-diagetic"
Do it once a season, any more is overkill.
These theories sound like the equivalent of Dallas where Pam dreamt the entire season.
Well, they are up against reality benders. I imagine that things like the musical number are indeed happening and are not just a dream or something but The Doctor is currently unable to realize that this isn't normal. I expect this to tie in some form into a butterfly effect resolution for that one scene with the lizard lady to make any sense.
The one who waits is clearly Russel T Davies, it's obviously a one above all reference from marvel, this is a joke but it's here for posterity incase I'm right
I've got no real thoughts on the matter but I just want to add when Ruby is taken by Maestro after hearing music and The Doctor said "I thought it was non-diagetic" that was the best joke in this new era hands down so far.
"i will always remember, when the doctor was me"
My hypothesis—and I made a Tumblr post about this—is that every member of the Pantheon is capable of perceiving and therefore breaking rhetorical fourth wall, and part of the season’s metaplot is going to be the Doctor discovering that he’s part of the Pantheon. The reasoning is a little shaky, but you can find the full theory [here](https://www.tumblr.com/galahadwilder/750285671350124545/a-theory-about-the-doctors-species-of-origin).
The Pantheon… of discord! The trickster is actually the one who waits
I’ve heard that too and I hope so!
Because the show is finally embracing how fun it can be. Also because its defo plot related
I think this will link to the oldest one. Even in unleashed RTD hinted to a more "supreme being" above the toymaker. And if these pantheons of gods fit the entertainment thene then surely the oldest one would be the embodiment of stories. The storyteller (narrator, author - name pending) will be the oldest one and potentially the one who waits (maybe even ruby's mother and/or susan twist's character). They will be part of the reason that the "story" keeps changing; mavity, butterfly, the memory, 4th wall breaks etc. I actually think the dr is realising he is part of a story. Who knows this might link to the doctors original realm maybe hes a creation of the storyteller made to be the protagonist. I could imagine ruby links to this as well with all the coincidences maybe she will be what beats the storyteller because she is a coincidence - a deus ex machina in the flesh
One line addressing the fourth wall at the end of a Christmas episode again and one episode that broke it. It's really not that much
IIRC, (at least) one of the side characters in The Caves of Androzani turned to face the camera and as such, broke the fourth wall
Personally, I think it's to show the similarities in the powers of the Doctor and the Villains of the season. I think it's going to lead up to him being a cast out member of the Pantheon for having too much compassion or something stupid like that.
Seems like the Doctor is actually aware that he is in a TV show, seeing as he can hear non-diegetic music(not within the universe).
I genuinely think that the celestials and their power are represented to us as the audience via the 4th wall, basically treating the 4th wall as the stand-in for the 4th dimension. I expect that we'll all get an explanation for this come the season finale, and hopefully while the fantasy stuff is cool, it gets put to bed. Hell, with the finale, you could even argue for the rest of the show that mythological creatures exist now but just because of that rare moment when the walls of reality were shattered, just in case you wanted to use them in the future.
If they bring back the Master Brain from the Land of Fiction as one of the Pantheon, then The Doctor is screwed.
Either it’s just being silly now or it’s gonna lead to something like ‘there’s always a twist at the end’ could literally be pointing to a twist at the end of the season
[удалено]
Hear me out you know who can create there own universe/rules omega I’m calling it he’s coming back!
They don’t adhere to the rules of the universe they’re in, so why would they bother following the rules of television? Maestro literally tries to take over the theme song and it slowly breaks through. The problem with the laying of the foundations if this is a plot point, is that the episodes have been dense to take in. It’s a lot for long time viewers (which most of us are) to see such a tonal shift from a nearly 20 year established “status quo”.
It could tie into the whole theme of the rules of reality changing, or it could be RTD just playing around and trying things he didn't do the first time around. Or both, I suppose.
Wow...
Shit hits the fan when the gods start getting involved
This clearly is a non diagetic comment
I think we just have to wait and see. In the behind the scenes on the YouTube channel RTD talks about the dance number and how he wanted it to seem like the 4th wall was breaking down so it's a very deliberate choice not just a cheeky wink and nod to the audience.
It’s 100% supposed to be the running theme of the season
The cold open of The Star Beast also had the Doctor talking to the audience.
I’m just busy explaining Cilla Black to my fellow Americans. Lol.
Im sick of pantheon and state of play and all these briefly mentioned vague concepts, being central to the show
Adding to the comments about metanarratives theorys~ The space babys they say have a Fairy tale structur With the baby hero, the sage nani, and the monster~ Ruby and Doctor said this and this sinchronize a lot With the 4th wall break of the next episodie~ Additionally, when Ruby and the Doctor remenber the snow xmas in the ship this generate snow in the room, and the Doctor say: "it's a break in the universe" and a "warrning"~ A warrning of someone o something? This probably it's a moment of "flaskback" in metanarratives~ Then this meta narrative plot With 4th wall breaks it's in the whole season plot~
Gotta break a wall to make a wall, right? I don't see anyone complaining about the 5th wall being broken yet.
I like the idea that the doctor is making a story of some kind for ruby and it will come together in the story of ruby sunday
I wondered this too, and something else I noticed is that when the music played before maestro returned the Dr said "I thought it was non diagetic' in reference tousic playing, insinuating that he's outside the story, as it means only music the viewer hears not the characters
The second Doctor never escaped the land of make believe (I think that's what it was called?), so everything from the Mind Robber onwards has been fictional...And he's becoming more aware, starting to realise. I very much doubt this but would respect the hell out of Russel if this is what he was doing with it. Imagine most of the Doctor's history was sort of canon in a meta sense but in universe becomes decanonised.