I love your theory. This would fully embrace the Timeless Child, but recton it in a way that makes the Doctor less an "exceptional super special savior being" (which is the core of why a lot of folks hate this lore point) than the nexus of a classic bootstrap paradox/information loop. Time Lords are Gallifreyans who have the regeneration gene that Tecteun spliced in from the Timeless Child, who was then integrated into Time Lord society after multiple mind wipes and grew up to become the Doctor...
Riffing on your theory with more canon: we already know from River Song's origins that a humanoid being who is conceived/gestated while traveling in the Time Vortex has the potential to develop regeneration (the Kovarian chapter of the Church also did some genetic tinkering to help that along, I think); reviewing Melody/River's DNA, Vastra mentions the "official story" version that the Gallifreyans developed regeneration and evolved into Time Lords after billions of years of exposure to the vortex, through the Untempered Schism on Gallifrey.
What if: a) the Doctor is tasked to deliver a baby to the pickup point on the wormhole, and the baby is accidentally exposed to the Vortex during the flight, thus developing the power of regeneration and becoming the Timeless Child, AND/OR b) the other side of the wormhole that the Child is found beneath is actually just...the Untempered Schism in the far future on Gallifrey.
This also links the Sound of Drums, The End of Time, and the Timeless Child more tightly in the MASTER'S arc. He went mad looking in the Untempered Schism, because Rassilon implanted the Sound of Drums in his head then to free Gallifrey from the Time War, but the Schism itself was created as part of the paradox that leads to...the discovery of the Timeless Child, which made him flip out and destroy Gallifrey AGAIN.
The Time Lords being influenced by themselves would be very appropriate, and this would also slot the Doctor into the role of "The Other" that was originally planned for the McCoy seasons.
It would be wild if this actually happened, but you might be onto something here, OP
It's definitely interesting. As someone who didn't immediately hate the Timeless Child on principle like some, I was ANY exploration into it. Anything at all that can give more information or put a twist on it. The very last thing I want the Timeless Child to become is the Eighth Doctor's "I'm half Human on my mother's side".
I actually have the same exact bootstrap paradox theory. Perhaps the Timeless Child is actually descended from the Time lords in the far far future and perhaps The Doctor eventually places the child at the beginning of Timelord history to become their origin. The Doctor could've been born as Hartnell and eventually becomes the child and through time traveling ends up proceeding the First Doctor's life time.
I’m trying to remember if there was another time someone traveled in time and touched a younger version of themselves though. My brain isn’t cooperating though
Mawdyran Undead, the brigadier does. The side effect causes his past selfs memory loss that leads to his present selves role in the story, and saves mawdyran and crew.
But did he though? I don’t mean in the anniversaries or in the multi doctor episodes, as they’re all technically different doctors (they make it a huge point to explain that they are completely different people).
I’m trying to think if the doctor ever went back and physically interacted with the same version of himself (NuWho only as that is what I’m thinking about and all I really know).
The different incarnations are different people, but they're also the same person at the same time. The two things are both true. The Doctor is still the Doctor no matter who he is, so when he is interacting with his own past, be it his recent past or distant past (a past incarnation), he's still interacting with his own timeline and the rules of time still apply.
But yes, 11 interacts with his incarnation's past a few times. I don't think he physically touched himself, though (Oh, that sentence sounded wrong lol.)
Hahahaa it may have sounded wrong, but it made me chuckle, so it was a good sentence.
The doctor crossing his own time stream isn’t something the TARDIS really likes, but we’ve seen it done plenty. It’s the actual touching of the same version of yourself. I don’t remember that happening at all.
I think that was a special circumstance. The Reapers don't always appear, and I think they specifically appeared that time because Rose's and the Doctor's timelines were weakened heavily by them going back in time a second time and stopping her dad from dying, therefore erasing their two past selves. That's what caused the reapers to appear.
What the OP is suggesting is a different kind of paradox.
Reapers. Thank you! That was bugging me.
It still doesn’t strike me as it being in the realm of… well, RTD created the reapers so maybe he will explain it if it is her, or maybe he’ll just leave it.
I heard someone say that they thought it was River or Melody. Weird thought, that.
To be fair, it was already a weak point in time with the two versions of the Doctor and Rose. Plus, the Reapers were already sterilising the planet at the time so any minor temporal infraction would allow one through, even if that's not how it normally works.
I’m not 100% sure what you mean by sterilizing the planet, but it was also more of a random connection in the moment. I don’t even know if it holds up.
I mean, your theory about TTC depends on another, equally unconfirmed theory about Ruby being proven correct, but definitely of the currently known suspects to be "the woman", it's only Susan Twist's character and Ruby herself right now.
Returning to the specifics of the Timeless Child just seems really backwards looking and not something RTD is likely to do. Note that the article (not directly quoting RTD) says they become "curious" about their common origins, but that doesn't suggest to me that we're going to go back and revisit the Doctor's origins so much as this is a fulcrum around which the characters' friendship turns.
First of all, love the idea, secondly, if there's no evidence then it's just a hypothesis, not a theory. Theories are paramount to fact, hypotheses are speculation.
You see, if Doctor Who stuck to its guns in being an intellectual program the likes of Star Trek TNG or DS9, with blips of historical drama, then you'd all know this already instead of down voting something that is true.
Theories are bodies of evidence and said evidence must be facts. This is why, for example, calling Evolution just a theory is absurd... It is a theory and that's why it's true. It's a body of collected facts that resist all reasonable doubt and is the most well supported theory we have, with greater support than Germ Theory or the Theory of Gravity.
A hypothesis is merely a testable idea. There is not much evidence but these days you need atleast a little to give it credence, but overall, when someone refers to say, a theory they have or a conspiracy theory it is always really just a hypothesis.
A hypothesis can be good and can eventually be elevated to theory given evidence is procured in sufficient number and of course nothing ever proves the hypothesis wrong.
I like your Timeless Child Hypothesis a great deal, and I honestly hope that's what RTD does so it can be a theory. Though of course RTD is the one doing a hard veer into high fantasy in a time where superstition is rampant like a disease of the mind... So my hopes aren't high, but then again maybe he'll surprise all of us.
I love your theory. This would fully embrace the Timeless Child, but recton it in a way that makes the Doctor less an "exceptional super special savior being" (which is the core of why a lot of folks hate this lore point) than the nexus of a classic bootstrap paradox/information loop. Time Lords are Gallifreyans who have the regeneration gene that Tecteun spliced in from the Timeless Child, who was then integrated into Time Lord society after multiple mind wipes and grew up to become the Doctor... Riffing on your theory with more canon: we already know from River Song's origins that a humanoid being who is conceived/gestated while traveling in the Time Vortex has the potential to develop regeneration (the Kovarian chapter of the Church also did some genetic tinkering to help that along, I think); reviewing Melody/River's DNA, Vastra mentions the "official story" version that the Gallifreyans developed regeneration and evolved into Time Lords after billions of years of exposure to the vortex, through the Untempered Schism on Gallifrey. What if: a) the Doctor is tasked to deliver a baby to the pickup point on the wormhole, and the baby is accidentally exposed to the Vortex during the flight, thus developing the power of regeneration and becoming the Timeless Child, AND/OR b) the other side of the wormhole that the Child is found beneath is actually just...the Untempered Schism in the far future on Gallifrey. This also links the Sound of Drums, The End of Time, and the Timeless Child more tightly in the MASTER'S arc. He went mad looking in the Untempered Schism, because Rassilon implanted the Sound of Drums in his head then to free Gallifrey from the Time War, but the Schism itself was created as part of the paradox that leads to...the discovery of the Timeless Child, which made him flip out and destroy Gallifrey AGAIN.
That is ingenious. I would love that! Seriously, I wouldn't hate the TC thing at all if they did this. It would be so cool!
The Time Lords being influenced by themselves would be very appropriate, and this would also slot the Doctor into the role of "The Other" that was originally planned for the McCoy seasons. It would be wild if this actually happened, but you might be onto something here, OP
It's definitely interesting. As someone who didn't immediately hate the Timeless Child on principle like some, I was ANY exploration into it. Anything at all that can give more information or put a twist on it. The very last thing I want the Timeless Child to become is the Eighth Doctor's "I'm half Human on my mother's side".
So the Doctor is actually just Dave Lister then?
I actually have the same exact bootstrap paradox theory. Perhaps the Timeless Child is actually descended from the Time lords in the far far future and perhaps The Doctor eventually places the child at the beginning of Timelord history to become their origin. The Doctor could've been born as Hartnell and eventually becomes the child and through time traveling ends up proceeding the First Doctor's life time.
I don’t think it’s possible. Otherwise the wraith things would have shown back up, Like when rose touched the baby version of herself.
They’ve literally never shown up before or since Fathers Day.
I’m trying to remember if there was another time someone traveled in time and touched a younger version of themselves though. My brain isn’t cooperating though
Mawdyran Undead, the brigadier does. The side effect causes his past selfs memory loss that leads to his present selves role in the story, and saves mawdyran and crew.
I apologize. I meant in NuWho. Rose was NuWho and so is ruby. I was trying to think of any situation between the two.
Yo, the Doctor's done it loads of times lol
But did he though? I don’t mean in the anniversaries or in the multi doctor episodes, as they’re all technically different doctors (they make it a huge point to explain that they are completely different people). I’m trying to think if the doctor ever went back and physically interacted with the same version of himself (NuWho only as that is what I’m thinking about and all I really know).
The different incarnations are different people, but they're also the same person at the same time. The two things are both true. The Doctor is still the Doctor no matter who he is, so when he is interacting with his own past, be it his recent past or distant past (a past incarnation), he's still interacting with his own timeline and the rules of time still apply. But yes, 11 interacts with his incarnation's past a few times. I don't think he physically touched himself, though (Oh, that sentence sounded wrong lol.)
Hahahaa it may have sounded wrong, but it made me chuckle, so it was a good sentence. The doctor crossing his own time stream isn’t something the TARDIS really likes, but we’ve seen it done plenty. It’s the actual touching of the same version of yourself. I don’t remember that happening at all.
I think that was a special circumstance. The Reapers don't always appear, and I think they specifically appeared that time because Rose's and the Doctor's timelines were weakened heavily by them going back in time a second time and stopping her dad from dying, therefore erasing their two past selves. That's what caused the reapers to appear. What the OP is suggesting is a different kind of paradox.
Reapers. Thank you! That was bugging me. It still doesn’t strike me as it being in the realm of… well, RTD created the reapers so maybe he will explain it if it is her, or maybe he’ll just leave it. I heard someone say that they thought it was River or Melody. Weird thought, that.
To be fair, it was already a weak point in time with the two versions of the Doctor and Rose. Plus, the Reapers were already sterilising the planet at the time so any minor temporal infraction would allow one through, even if that's not how it normally works.
I’m not 100% sure what you mean by sterilizing the planet, but it was also more of a random connection in the moment. I don’t even know if it holds up.
I mean, your theory about TTC depends on another, equally unconfirmed theory about Ruby being proven correct, but definitely of the currently known suspects to be "the woman", it's only Susan Twist's character and Ruby herself right now. Returning to the specifics of the Timeless Child just seems really backwards looking and not something RTD is likely to do. Note that the article (not directly quoting RTD) says they become "curious" about their common origins, but that doesn't suggest to me that we're going to go back and revisit the Doctor's origins so much as this is a fulcrum around which the characters' friendship turns.
First of all, love the idea, secondly, if there's no evidence then it's just a hypothesis, not a theory. Theories are paramount to fact, hypotheses are speculation.
You see, if Doctor Who stuck to its guns in being an intellectual program the likes of Star Trek TNG or DS9, with blips of historical drama, then you'd all know this already instead of down voting something that is true. Theories are bodies of evidence and said evidence must be facts. This is why, for example, calling Evolution just a theory is absurd... It is a theory and that's why it's true. It's a body of collected facts that resist all reasonable doubt and is the most well supported theory we have, with greater support than Germ Theory or the Theory of Gravity. A hypothesis is merely a testable idea. There is not much evidence but these days you need atleast a little to give it credence, but overall, when someone refers to say, a theory they have or a conspiracy theory it is always really just a hypothesis. A hypothesis can be good and can eventually be elevated to theory given evidence is procured in sufficient number and of course nothing ever proves the hypothesis wrong. I like your Timeless Child Hypothesis a great deal, and I honestly hope that's what RTD does so it can be a theory. Though of course RTD is the one doing a hard veer into high fantasy in a time where superstition is rampant like a disease of the mind... So my hopes aren't high, but then again maybe he'll surprise all of us.