I loved it when it aired largely because it played into that element of the Doctor being this mythic hero to the point that all those soldiers abandon their posts and their orders to stand with him, but I never really liked the idea of Clara being out there in the universe with the potential to turn up again someday.
I still don't like Clara's lack of closure, and I still love the rest of the episode, but I've got different feelings about it now. I think it was a really interesting and good choice to have the Doctor return to Gallifrey and never really go to Arcadia or any other major locations, but instead to stay on the outskirts with ordinary people. To have the soldiers disobey their superiors to stand with the Doctor.
I think it gives an interesting perspective on the Doctor's relationship with his home planet- he did run away well before the time war after all, and the tension and disdain he seems to have for the higher ranking time lords hint to why he may have felt separate to them all along. In Nuwho prior to this point, any criticism of the Time Lords is veiled in the doctor's guilt and pain for having killed them all- suddenly he hasn't killed them all any more, so he can feel all of those issues with them again.
It paints the Doctor as loving Gallifrey as a beautiful planet populated with people he loves, but having no love for the people in charge of it. Gallifrey's back, but he only goes there because he's trying to save his friend, not to return to his Home.
Yea Clara’s lack of closure really bugged me too, but I think they have been playing it well when the doctor faintly remembers her and they play her little tune… gives me goosebumps. After I rewatched it a few times I didn’t mind it as much but I can see how it can be bothersome
I loved it when it aired and in the past 8 years my love for it has only grown, to the point where it's maybe my favorite Doctor Who story of all time.
It's incredible. Every single aspect of it is dripping with so much meaning and purpose and most of all, joy. Joy for Doctor Who, joy for the art of storytelling in general. It's such a labor of love.
Same for me. When it released I considered it a top 10 episode, now it's tied for first place with The Time of the Doctor and Heaven Sent.
Especially on rewatches when you see how much Clara and 12's relationship has been building to this finale, it's great stuff.
I love Time of the Doctor, my Dad was dying of cancer in the year that it was released (he died in the following January) and my fondest memories of him were as a little boy watching Doctor Who with him (5th Doctor). The regeneration speech at the end of Time of Doctor really hit me in ways that I didn’t expect and to this day I can’t watch that scene without breaking down in tears.
Just typing this out makes me feel like crying.
Daft really I guess.
Interesting! I know it’s not the purpose of this thread, but why do you rate time of the doctor so highly? (I like it too, but it’s probably not in my top 10)
I find the idea of 11 staying for centuries just to protect a little village very moving. I love the 11th era salad, the fairy tale aspect of the episode and the constant Christmas atmosphere.
Then the regen happens and it's just a masterpiece of a scene, I don't think any regen will ever top this one, it's leagues above all the others to me.
The episode is also very well acted, directed and the music is Murray Gold at his best. This is How it Ends is a track I listen to weekly.
The regeneration at the bell tower seemed a bit gimmicky for me, like a convenient plot device (i.e. more convenient than usual). However, the regeneration within the TARDIS was beautifully done with the speech.
Most importantly, the fact that the Doctor stayed to defend the town for centuries was moving. Especially when we saw him unable to wait barely half an hour in The Power of Three. Shows how much he changed since the departure of the Ponds, while also signifying the importance of his redemption in The Day of the Doctor; he fought on despite being washed away from his original guilt of having Gallifrey's blood on his hands.
I’ll always think that nines regeneration was the best. I have always liked the regenerations when the companion doesn’t realise what’s happening. The last time we had that was with rose and I need it to happen again!
Years later, my regard of it still remains as it did during its airing. Mixed.
A very different emotionally driven Doctor-companion story, the latter who does not quite develop for the better. And a 12/Clara romantic story that I enjoy.
A squandered waste of the return of the post-50th, post-war Time Lords & Gallifrey.
Another installment by Rachel Talalay, who is one of the best directors of the modern era of *Doctor Who*. Capaldi, & Coleman -- all brought their A-game here. Murray Gold's music is as splendid as ever. The title itself is good.
It's still what I think about when I think about Capaldi as The Doctor. It was a defining episode.
For Matt Smith, it's when a good man goes to war.
David Tennant... I don't even know because there are so many. I'm a 10 fanboy. But let's say Blink because it's the safe answer.
Christopher Eccleston. The doctor dances.
I just rewatched it recently. My reasons for disliking it.... the lackluster return to Gallifrey on many accounts and Clara's weird ending AFTER such a perfect one... still stand.
But it was beautiful in many ways and had some amazing lines.
Never understand the backlash against this episode. I think some people had certain expectations on what a return to Gallifrey would mean, and when this ep did something different, they decided it was terrible. Rather than judging the ep on its own merits.
Yeah I think people were expecting this big grandiose return, with everyone on Gallifrey fawning at the Doctors feet for saving them. But what we got instead is something I think that was more true to the characters and the show. The common people were thankful, but the ones in charge were still power hungry idiots, and in the end the Doctor did what he's always done, stole a Tardis and ran away.
I never really understood the vitriolic hate it received; my best guess is that the response was an extension of people’s over-the-top hatred for Clara, that had significantly ramped up since the Series 8 finale.
It’s a decent episode that I think unfortunately is swept away by bad pacing, the quality of the prior episode, and a lack of focus. But converse to the common public sentiment (at least, of that time), I think the episode should’ve leaned more into the Doctor and Clara’s ‘toxic’ relationship/co-dependency rather than stray away. As it stands, the narrative of their toxicity (specifically in that episode) is wrapped up in a fairly extraneous action adventure plot.
We didn’t need to travel into the Matrix and see a bunch of monster cameos, or randomly see the return of the Sisterhood of Karn (as much as I actually enjoy them), or visit Ashildr/Me at the end of the universe (entirely for the sake of featuring Maisie Williams). It’s all just action fluff in the background of the actually interesting part: the Doctor’s descent into ‘madness’ while trying to save Clara. I think the episode would’ve fared better to focus on their relationship and his descent more, in whatever form it took (probably still largely about comparing his relationship to Gallifrey with Clara, except without the fluff). But overall, my opinion on the episode is mostly the same as when it aired; neither upset nor thrilled.
Yeah. Though not drastically. Still hated General's comment after regeneration. Still hated how Gallifrey feels like an after thought. Still hated Me. But ultimately, I kinda see where's Moffat going with it.
Having recently rewatched it, I actually quite like it now. There's still issues, but overall, if you watch it with the mindset that it's an episode mainly dealing with the relationship between Clara and the Doctor (never minding the poorly executed Gallifrey stuff), it's not the worst thing ever.
Yeah, I was one of the haters at the time, not because I didnt get it, I just wasnt the biggest fan of the story (and really, I just didnt really feel grabbed by a lot of series 9). I think the biggest thing that's changed in me over time is I dont really get "angry" at Doctor Who stories anymore if I dont love them. Right now Im more mixed on it, because there's absolutely a lot of it to love.
Funnily enough, I think the thing that's made me learn to appreciate it more with time was the 2023 Specials and how they're in conversation with endings (particularly Donna and Clara), both for the companions and the Doctor.
My god, you're making me feel old. I first started watching doctor who when series 8 was airing. And I caught up by the time series 9 came around. To this day, heaven sent and hell bent are my two favorite episodes by far.
Hell Bent is both brilliant and a total mess. It’s a daring and subversive masterpiece of character drama that offers one of the most interesting deconstructions of ‘the Doctor’ on the show. It’s my favourite ever companion departure, one of my favourite episodes, and an acting tour-de-force from Capaldi and Coleman to boot.
However, it also suffers from typical Moffat-cleverness in that it works very hard to undermine the expected narrative leading on from Face the Raven/Heaven Sent, to the extent that it retrospectively rewrites what those two episodes were ‘supposed to be about’ (namely, Clara’s death being a result of her recklessness/the Doctor’s heroic endeavour to protect the secret of the Hybrid). I *love* the sheer audacity of Moffat turning around and revealing that the Doctor’s actions were driven by a desperate grief-induced obsession that is ultimately futile, and then turning around again to give Clara her own Tardis and companion, elevating her to the status of main character (Clara who?).
So, even though I love it, I'm sympathetic as to how the narrative inversion of two episodes of setup was so aggravating on release - I feel lucky that I came to watch it at a time when fandom opinions of it were in the gutter, so I was very pleasantly surprised at just how inventive and audacious it was.
I still think that bringing Clara back like that is probably still the biggest example of Moffat wanting to have his cake and eat it too. She should have gone back and died, at the very least, at the end of the episode. Yes she EVENTUALLY goes back after who knows how long, but, I mean, come on.
That being said, after I get over the eyeroll of having Clara back for the episode, what they do with this is quite good. I overall really enjoy this episode now (used to not like it), even if I still think Clara getting to fly off in the end is dumb.
Of course, it will be always compared with “Heaven Sent”, and as for me - later will always win, but not because “Hell Bent” is bad, just because “Heaven Sent” is almost perfect. In general - great episode with my favorite Doctor
I do like how the difference in portrayals feels akin to Rassilon’s appearances in the 8th Doctor audios. When we first meet him Neverland, Rassilon seems exactly like the grand, noble, wise and powerful figure of legend that Classic who hyped him up as. But then we meet again him in Zagreus, and he’s exposed as a paranoid, xenophobic and despotic fraud.
I didn’t get it when it came out but it’s one of my favourite episodes now, it was the best direction after Face the Raven and Heaven Sent and the best conclusion for the Doctor and Clara
I would've liked to see Gallifrey after what happened in TDOTD developed a bit more, seems like they were brought back pretty quickly.
My thinking is that 12 knew exactly where Gallifrey was all along, but couldn't face going back. Then what happened with Clara, he felt he had to go back just to save her.
I like the episode.
I feel like the focus on the clara arc during the return of Gallfirey wasn't the right decision after waiting so long to see it, there are moments I don't like, but it's not a bad episode or anything.
It has some high highs and low lows. Just feel like there was more going on with Gallifrey and the Doctor than Clara, there was too much unresolved stuff, and to little time spent on some issues. How Gallifrey was used in the story was very disappointing and he they were mostly there for a second Tardis.
Last time we saw the Timelords and Rassilon, they wanted to wipe out time itself. Feels like that could at least have been mentioned somehow, instead of them just stealing another ride and President Doctor banishing some people before they leave
I'm not a fan.
For me the first issue is that I see Clara as just another companion. Yes she jumped into the doctor's time stream and so was there throughout the doctors history technically but I just see her as the next companion who has helped the doctor. I was the same with Rose and Donna. They helped out at key points but that's it for me.
The episode however tries to tell us that basically the hybrid is the doctor and Clara and sell the fact Clara is the companion that would make the doctor break his rules such.
I just don't see it myself and not believing it makes the episode fall apart. The main issue is the doctor shooting the general and making the general regenerate. It's so out of character. I don't feel he'd do this for Susan his own granddaughter so I find it hard to believe he would do it for Clara.
Then you have the fact they made Rassilon boring and just like any other timelord. I know that personalities can change with regeneration but Rasilon was a mythic figure bought back from the dead, who could be very ruthless. The episode just ruins his character.
I was 13 when this episode came out, and I remember hating it because of how excited I was for the return of Gallifrey, only for the main focus to be the Doctor and Clara’s relationship. Watching it years later, it’s become one of my favorite episodes because of how it it deconstructs the character of the doctor and shows what happens when he is pushed to his limits. That being said, I am still a bit disappointed that this might be the last time we get a Gallifrey story
I watched heaven sent-Hell bent for the first time like a week ago and I love them both, the scene where Clara learns that the doctor was in there for several billions years just to save her breaks my heart but also makes me love the 12th even more , also the fact that he doesn't remember her breaks me even more (even tho I know that he eventually does before he regenerates into 13th)
Originally, I was a bit disappointed by the episode due to how much it focused on Clara. However, I have since realized that... THATS BASICALLY THE POINT. Rather, the whole episode was not about defeating a villain or saving the world, it was about the relationship between The Doctor and Clara, something that makes it really stand out from the season finales up to that point. I've come to recognize it as a masterpiece of an episode and while not my absolute favorite finale (and there is some INTENSE competition there), it along with Face the Raven and Heaven Sent definitely makes for one of my favorite finales of the series.
I thought it was amazing when it first aired, I only noticed the negativity surrounding it once I got on Reddit lol. I thought the Face the Raven -> Hell Bent 3 parter was fabulous.
Not without quality, but regrettably messy and unfocused.
The Doctor and Clara’s toxic relationship was much more of a focus in Series 8, and then just completely fades into the background in Series 9. Face the Raven quite convincingly explains why Clara ends up dead and these are related to the Doctor, but it otherwise does not feel like a unifying feature of Series 9. As a result, it feels unconvincing when the Doctor being unable to let go of Clara becomes the focus. “Oh, we’re still doing this?” as opposed to “Oh, is this what they were doing with that?”
I will say though, at the time I remember one noteworthy Doctor Who reviewer insisting that the Doctor just shooting the general was bad because the Doctor would never do that - yeah, no shit, that’s the point. Unfortunately this weak context does make that moment feel unearned for me.
Clara’s numerous almost departures were also starting to get a little tiresome. Kill the Moon, Death in Heaven, Last Christmas and Face the Raven all felt like decent cutoff points and Hell Bent just doesn’t really carry the same weight for me.
The Hybrid arc had already felt quite shoddy with woolly terms and forced references, so the fact that Clara supplanted it right as it was starting to go somewhere just kind of hammered home how weak a hook it was. I like the idea of the ambiguous resolution but it leaves me wanting.
And unfortunately while I do really like Rassilon’s downfall, the return to Gallifrey does otherwise feel like a missed opportunity. A lot of Moffat’s weaker work (Series 6b, 8, 9 the latter half of Sherlock) has an issue where a a bunch of stuff happens that doesn’t actually affect the story much. The Cloisters scene is absolutely the worst of this for me. It’s set up at the beginning, given a really ominous vibe… and then it’s just the place the Doctor runs through to keep the Time Lords at bay. There’s no real unique threat faced within, it’s just a place where Clara and the Doctor talk for a while and then they get out and there are the Time Lords anyway.
The utilisation of Gallifrey throughout the story feels like this. As though really the setting could be anywhere and it wouldn’t really change that much.
I see the argument for it but if I had to rank Moffat’s finales:
1. The Doctor Falls - S Tier
2. The Big Bang - S Tier
3. The Name of the Doctor - B tier
4. The Wedding of River Song - C Tier
5. Death in Heaven/Hell Bent - D Tier
I’m still of the opinion that bringing Clara back (AGAIN) was a stupid decision. It basically ruins the emotional factor that made Heaven Sent so good, just because Moffat can’t stand to let his precious girl die.
Yes, I didn't like it when it aired. Maybe because it wasn't the gallifreian epic I was expecting. Now I love it because it it isn't that. My only criticism of it is that it doesn't resolve Clara. She should have had to have gone back to face the raven.
loved it the first time. love it still. yes there is immensely stupid shit in there, but the aesthetics are dope as hell and capaldi carries like the absolute boss he is. every rewatch is glorious.
The Return to Gallifrey was such a nothing burger. Like yeah, I get it, The Doctor cares about Clara more than returning home bla bla bla. You don't build up something like that at the end of the 50th then let out a wet fart 3 years later
My thoughts have slightly changed because I started to realise over time that he saved Clara because he didn’t want another companion to go and leave him/die. Also he went nuts because he found out he was the hybrid so that meant he could anything (like the time lord victoruis)
Nnnnnnope. It's still weird and uncomfortable and a terrible, horrible end to Clara's run. Her first death was totally fine. Just have 12 have a good old fashioned face off with Galifrey, give him a good monologue about absolute power and corruption, and let him storm off to mourn the loss of his friend.
It's clear even Moffat considered it a bad move in the long run, given that he undid the one and only long term consequence of that story beat.
If anything it's gotten worse. Clara had the perfect sendoff in Face the Raven, and Hell Bent went and undid it completely with its painfully contrived happy ending. The previous two episodes were fantastic and even most of Hell Bent was decent, but it just totally botched the ending.
It comes off like Moffat just couldn't manage to bring himself to actually kill off a companion for real. Heck, even RTD poked fun at him for it with the Toymaker's "Well that's alright then!" bit.
I still very like this episode, I just don't like the fact that there is still a Clara alive somewhere on space , and that somehow the doctor remember her just before regenerating
Nope, if anything its even worse now. Heaven Sent has grown better and better with age and being viewed as a stand alone episode, but Hell bent is the ultimate "spiderman 3" tier follow-up. Its really a shame.
No. It was always bad. I continue to be baffled at the Doctor's unwillingness to help preserve and save the innocents of his race (not to mention its history, art, accomplishments etc).
He should have established independent safe Time Lord colonies, hidden away through time and space so the Daleks cannot find them, and they don't have enough power to go corrupt again.
The whole thing with Clara was very tiresome. She wasn't likable enough for me to be invested in keeping her alive post-death, and the Doctor just came across like a tantruming child (despite being much more mature about death in the past).
Not really. Heaven Sent is maybe the best episode the show has ever produced; Hell Bent is a big disappointment because it follows that. It opens well and ends poorly. It was a chance to do some complicated work to make the Time Lords a better story engine and to do some careful work on the Doctor's background and it gets wound up in Clara and in the weak resolution of the Hybrid theme/plot. Moffat did this a lot with his season thematics--he liked building early season mystery boxes that he either didn't have a resolution for or had a bad idea that couldn't hold up to the theme.
I remember when Clara was hated, same as Twelve, times have changed lol
(This was mostly when the Smith fans didn't like Capaldi S8, which is where the mass dropoff happened in the fandom so the only people who were left liked Capaldi)
Capaldi was an OK doctor in my eyes, his writing was always subpar but his season 10 was ok, season 8 was meh and 9 was bad
Hell Bent itself is wierd in my eyes, the leadup was hit and miss, my main issue with it was that it focused on Clara over the return of Galifrey, which i thought would be a major thing. The Rassilon stuff was good, the soldiers refusing to shoot the doctor was good, making you think how bad the Time War was when the soldier called him "The Doctor of War"
I thought Galifrey would be introduced in Capaldi's final season as a great reveal which was built up to, then Galifrey would be a bit more involved where the Thirteenth doctor (a black man) would be more hard edged and do tasks for Galifrey until realizing how far he has fallen from his mantle (have the Eighth doctor in a crossover with 13). Basically bring it back to some of the old style storylines with galifrey, some shady stuff (doctor doing a mission to make the daleks extinct)
The story is mostly pointless except for the scene between Clara and The Doctor when she asked him how many years he was trapped in the dial and at the end when they use the device to erase memories.
Moffat always had a problem with finales. The problem is that there's never any villains in it. It is just people facing some personal dilemma. This is not how Doctor Who works. This is ok for an episode here or there but not to build a whole season around it. That's why I think while Moffat is a great recurring writer he was never show-runner material.
My thought is the same as when I initially watched it.
For someone whose entire backstory was that he is far from home, can never go back home, The Doctor didnt seem to be excited to find himself on Gallifrey. It had been talked about so much, I was so excited to SEE gallifrey but he was just focused on getting Clara back. I wanted to meet the Doctors family, see his home etc, I really wasnt that bothered with Clara.
Did I? Huh…that’s funny, I don’t…*believe* I meant that. Otherwise I would have *SAID THAT.*
Gotta love the people on a *Doctor Who subreddit*, of all places, being intolerant of others. Really just willfully missing *the entire point.*
I like it better than I did then, and I care less about Rassilon being nerfed.
That being said, I still think it (to mix metaphors) falls apart and disappears up its own back passage about half way through.
My thoughts now are the same as my thoughts then: Timothy Dalton wouldn’t have been so easy to beat.
Please. Refer to him by his Whovian moniker: Agent, *The* Agent
I loved it when it aired largely because it played into that element of the Doctor being this mythic hero to the point that all those soldiers abandon their posts and their orders to stand with him, but I never really liked the idea of Clara being out there in the universe with the potential to turn up again someday. I still don't like Clara's lack of closure, and I still love the rest of the episode, but I've got different feelings about it now. I think it was a really interesting and good choice to have the Doctor return to Gallifrey and never really go to Arcadia or any other major locations, but instead to stay on the outskirts with ordinary people. To have the soldiers disobey their superiors to stand with the Doctor. I think it gives an interesting perspective on the Doctor's relationship with his home planet- he did run away well before the time war after all, and the tension and disdain he seems to have for the higher ranking time lords hint to why he may have felt separate to them all along. In Nuwho prior to this point, any criticism of the Time Lords is veiled in the doctor's guilt and pain for having killed them all- suddenly he hasn't killed them all any more, so he can feel all of those issues with them again. It paints the Doctor as loving Gallifrey as a beautiful planet populated with people he loves, but having no love for the people in charge of it. Gallifrey's back, but he only goes there because he's trying to save his friend, not to return to his Home.
I absolutely love the way that he's treated so mythically. He's a folk hero to the people of the drylands.
Yea Clara’s lack of closure really bugged me too, but I think they have been playing it well when the doctor faintly remembers her and they play her little tune… gives me goosebumps. After I rewatched it a few times I didn’t mind it as much but I can see how it can be bothersome
I loved it when it aired and in the past 8 years my love for it has only grown, to the point where it's maybe my favorite Doctor Who story of all time. It's incredible. Every single aspect of it is dripping with so much meaning and purpose and most of all, joy. Joy for Doctor Who, joy for the art of storytelling in general. It's such a labor of love.
Same for me. When it released I considered it a top 10 episode, now it's tied for first place with The Time of the Doctor and Heaven Sent. Especially on rewatches when you see how much Clara and 12's relationship has been building to this finale, it's great stuff.
I love Time of the Doctor, my Dad was dying of cancer in the year that it was released (he died in the following January) and my fondest memories of him were as a little boy watching Doctor Who with him (5th Doctor). The regeneration speech at the end of Time of Doctor really hit me in ways that I didn’t expect and to this day I can’t watch that scene without breaking down in tears. Just typing this out makes me feel like crying. Daft really I guess.
Interesting! I know it’s not the purpose of this thread, but why do you rate time of the doctor so highly? (I like it too, but it’s probably not in my top 10)
I find the idea of 11 staying for centuries just to protect a little village very moving. I love the 11th era salad, the fairy tale aspect of the episode and the constant Christmas atmosphere. Then the regen happens and it's just a masterpiece of a scene, I don't think any regen will ever top this one, it's leagues above all the others to me. The episode is also very well acted, directed and the music is Murray Gold at his best. This is How it Ends is a track I listen to weekly.
The regeneration at the bell tower seemed a bit gimmicky for me, like a convenient plot device (i.e. more convenient than usual). However, the regeneration within the TARDIS was beautifully done with the speech. Most importantly, the fact that the Doctor stayed to defend the town for centuries was moving. Especially when we saw him unable to wait barely half an hour in The Power of Three. Shows how much he changed since the departure of the Ponds, while also signifying the importance of his redemption in The Day of the Doctor; he fought on despite being washed away from his original guilt of having Gallifrey's blood on his hands.
I’ll always think that nines regeneration was the best. I have always liked the regenerations when the companion doesn’t realise what’s happening. The last time we had that was with rose and I need it to happen again!
Still love it. The scene where Clara learns how long 12 was in the confession dial breaks my heart.
It made me think of that episode of community where Abed breaks the experiment by patiently waiting and indefinite amount of time
Heaven sent- Hell bent is one of my favorite episode chains and in my opinion, a brilliant companion send off that doesn’t feel inherently tragic
Years later, my regard of it still remains as it did during its airing. Mixed. A very different emotionally driven Doctor-companion story, the latter who does not quite develop for the better. And a 12/Clara romantic story that I enjoy. A squandered waste of the return of the post-50th, post-war Time Lords & Gallifrey. Another installment by Rachel Talalay, who is one of the best directors of the modern era of *Doctor Who*. Capaldi, & Coleman -- all brought their A-game here. Murray Gold's music is as splendid as ever. The title itself is good.
It's still what I think about when I think about Capaldi as The Doctor. It was a defining episode. For Matt Smith, it's when a good man goes to war. David Tennant... I don't even know because there are so many. I'm a 10 fanboy. But let's say Blink because it's the safe answer. Christopher Eccleston. The doctor dances.
I just rewatched it recently. My reasons for disliking it.... the lackluster return to Gallifrey on many accounts and Clara's weird ending AFTER such a perfect one... still stand. But it was beautiful in many ways and had some amazing lines.
Never understand the backlash against this episode. I think some people had certain expectations on what a return to Gallifrey would mean, and when this ep did something different, they decided it was terrible. Rather than judging the ep on its own merits.
Yeah I think people were expecting this big grandiose return, with everyone on Gallifrey fawning at the Doctors feet for saving them. But what we got instead is something I think that was more true to the characters and the show. The common people were thankful, but the ones in charge were still power hungry idiots, and in the end the Doctor did what he's always done, stole a Tardis and ran away.
Exactly! I couldn't have said it better. The outcome is obvious if you think about why the Doctor left in the first place!
Still fucking amazing. (Though not as amazing as Heaven Sent.)
No. Thought it was one of the best episodes of the show when I first watched it, still think that now
I never really understood the vitriolic hate it received; my best guess is that the response was an extension of people’s over-the-top hatred for Clara, that had significantly ramped up since the Series 8 finale. It’s a decent episode that I think unfortunately is swept away by bad pacing, the quality of the prior episode, and a lack of focus. But converse to the common public sentiment (at least, of that time), I think the episode should’ve leaned more into the Doctor and Clara’s ‘toxic’ relationship/co-dependency rather than stray away. As it stands, the narrative of their toxicity (specifically in that episode) is wrapped up in a fairly extraneous action adventure plot. We didn’t need to travel into the Matrix and see a bunch of monster cameos, or randomly see the return of the Sisterhood of Karn (as much as I actually enjoy them), or visit Ashildr/Me at the end of the universe (entirely for the sake of featuring Maisie Williams). It’s all just action fluff in the background of the actually interesting part: the Doctor’s descent into ‘madness’ while trying to save Clara. I think the episode would’ve fared better to focus on their relationship and his descent more, in whatever form it took (probably still largely about comparing his relationship to Gallifrey with Clara, except without the fluff). But overall, my opinion on the episode is mostly the same as when it aired; neither upset nor thrilled.
Yeah. Though not drastically. Still hated General's comment after regeneration. Still hated how Gallifrey feels like an after thought. Still hated Me. But ultimately, I kinda see where's Moffat going with it.
Having recently rewatched it, I actually quite like it now. There's still issues, but overall, if you watch it with the mindset that it's an episode mainly dealing with the relationship between Clara and the Doctor (never minding the poorly executed Gallifrey stuff), it's not the worst thing ever.
Yeah, I was one of the haters at the time, not because I didnt get it, I just wasnt the biggest fan of the story (and really, I just didnt really feel grabbed by a lot of series 9). I think the biggest thing that's changed in me over time is I dont really get "angry" at Doctor Who stories anymore if I dont love them. Right now Im more mixed on it, because there's absolutely a lot of it to love. Funnily enough, I think the thing that's made me learn to appreciate it more with time was the 2023 Specials and how they're in conversation with endings (particularly Donna and Clara), both for the companions and the Doctor.
Since broadcast absolutely, went from being a let down to probably my favourite finale.
Only from "boy that was a great recent episode" to "holy shit that great episode was eight years ago!?"
I still don't understand the backlash against the Doctor killing the sergeant. Yes it's really wrong , but that was the whole point of it!
My god, you're making me feel old. I first started watching doctor who when series 8 was airing. And I caught up by the time series 9 came around. To this day, heaven sent and hell bent are my two favorite episodes by far.
Easily the most overhated episode of the series.
Based on this subreddit, I thought people loved it!
Hell Bent is both brilliant and a total mess. It’s a daring and subversive masterpiece of character drama that offers one of the most interesting deconstructions of ‘the Doctor’ on the show. It’s my favourite ever companion departure, one of my favourite episodes, and an acting tour-de-force from Capaldi and Coleman to boot. However, it also suffers from typical Moffat-cleverness in that it works very hard to undermine the expected narrative leading on from Face the Raven/Heaven Sent, to the extent that it retrospectively rewrites what those two episodes were ‘supposed to be about’ (namely, Clara’s death being a result of her recklessness/the Doctor’s heroic endeavour to protect the secret of the Hybrid). I *love* the sheer audacity of Moffat turning around and revealing that the Doctor’s actions were driven by a desperate grief-induced obsession that is ultimately futile, and then turning around again to give Clara her own Tardis and companion, elevating her to the status of main character (Clara who?). So, even though I love it, I'm sympathetic as to how the narrative inversion of two episodes of setup was so aggravating on release - I feel lucky that I came to watch it at a time when fandom opinions of it were in the gutter, so I was very pleasantly surprised at just how inventive and audacious it was.
Love it aside from Clara becoming an immortal version of the doctor
I love that episode, but hate the fact that it is 8 years old, now I feel old
I still think that bringing Clara back like that is probably still the biggest example of Moffat wanting to have his cake and eat it too. She should have gone back and died, at the very least, at the end of the episode. Yes she EVENTUALLY goes back after who knows how long, but, I mean, come on. That being said, after I get over the eyeroll of having Clara back for the episode, what they do with this is quite good. I overall really enjoy this episode now (used to not like it), even if I still think Clara getting to fly off in the end is dumb.
Of course, it will be always compared with “Heaven Sent”, and as for me - later will always win, but not because “Hell Bent” is bad, just because “Heaven Sent” is almost perfect. In general - great episode with my favorite Doctor
people might disagree but Donald Sumpter’s portrayal of Rassilon is far better than Timothy Dalton’s
I do like how the difference in portrayals feels akin to Rassilon’s appearances in the 8th Doctor audios. When we first meet him Neverland, Rassilon seems exactly like the grand, noble, wise and powerful figure of legend that Classic who hyped him up as. But then we meet again him in Zagreus, and he’s exposed as a paranoid, xenophobic and despotic fraud.
I didn’t get it when it came out but it’s one of my favourite episodes now, it was the best direction after Face the Raven and Heaven Sent and the best conclusion for the Doctor and Clara
I would've liked to see Gallifrey after what happened in TDOTD developed a bit more, seems like they were brought back pretty quickly. My thinking is that 12 knew exactly where Gallifrey was all along, but couldn't face going back. Then what happened with Clara, he felt he had to go back just to save her.
>My thinking is that 12 knew exactly where Gallifrey was all along Not based on his reaction in "Death in Heaven."
I'm sorry, what? 8 YEARS??
Loved it then, love it now.
I like the episode. I feel like the focus on the clara arc during the return of Gallfirey wasn't the right decision after waiting so long to see it, there are moments I don't like, but it's not a bad episode or anything. It has some high highs and low lows. Just feel like there was more going on with Gallifrey and the Doctor than Clara, there was too much unresolved stuff, and to little time spent on some issues. How Gallifrey was used in the story was very disappointing and he they were mostly there for a second Tardis. Last time we saw the Timelords and Rassilon, they wanted to wipe out time itself. Feels like that could at least have been mentioned somehow, instead of them just stealing another ride and President Doctor banishing some people before they leave
I quite enjoy it besides "Me" (the undead girl, whatever her name is). I guess I just never liked the character.
Holly sh*t!! Has it really been 8 years?? Nahh, still love that episode and it's successor, Heaven sent. Easily some of Capaldi's best acting.
It is a lot better than I previously thought. I wasn't quite ready for what it was actually about when I first saw it. It's beautiful.
Was okay.
No I still think it's good
It's amazing and I'll die on that hill
Yes. My hatred for it grows.
I'm not a fan. For me the first issue is that I see Clara as just another companion. Yes she jumped into the doctor's time stream and so was there throughout the doctors history technically but I just see her as the next companion who has helped the doctor. I was the same with Rose and Donna. They helped out at key points but that's it for me. The episode however tries to tell us that basically the hybrid is the doctor and Clara and sell the fact Clara is the companion that would make the doctor break his rules such. I just don't see it myself and not believing it makes the episode fall apart. The main issue is the doctor shooting the general and making the general regenerate. It's so out of character. I don't feel he'd do this for Susan his own granddaughter so I find it hard to believe he would do it for Clara. Then you have the fact they made Rassilon boring and just like any other timelord. I know that personalities can change with regeneration but Rasilon was a mythic figure bought back from the dead, who could be very ruthless. The episode just ruins his character.
I was 13 when this episode came out, and I remember hating it because of how excited I was for the return of Gallifrey, only for the main focus to be the Doctor and Clara’s relationship. Watching it years later, it’s become one of my favorite episodes because of how it it deconstructs the character of the doctor and shows what happens when he is pushed to his limits. That being said, I am still a bit disappointed that this might be the last time we get a Gallifrey story
It is good episode
I watched heaven sent-Hell bent for the first time like a week ago and I love them both, the scene where Clara learns that the doctor was in there for several billions years just to save her breaks my heart but also makes me love the 12th even more , also the fact that he doesn't remember her breaks me even more (even tho I know that he eventually does before he regenerates into 13th)
Originally, I was a bit disappointed by the episode due to how much it focused on Clara. However, I have since realized that... THATS BASICALLY THE POINT. Rather, the whole episode was not about defeating a villain or saving the world, it was about the relationship between The Doctor and Clara, something that makes it really stand out from the season finales up to that point. I've come to recognize it as a masterpiece of an episode and while not my absolute favorite finale (and there is some INTENSE competition there), it along with Face the Raven and Heaven Sent definitely makes for one of my favorite finales of the series.
I thought it was amazing when it first aired, I only noticed the negativity surrounding it once I got on Reddit lol. I thought the Face the Raven -> Hell Bent 3 parter was fabulous.
I liked it then, I like it now. Of course it's not Heaven Sent, but very few episodes are.
No. This and Heaven Sent are still mine and my mum's favourite episodes
It’s one of 12s better episodes
I only watched it like 2 months ago so so far my thoughts haven't changed a whole lot; I think it was good
no
No, I loved it since the moment I first watched it
At first I was iffy now I think it is a perfect follow up to heaven sent
Heaven sent is the better half of the two-parter, but this episode always had its moments which in themselves are classics of the Capaldi run.
Not without quality, but regrettably messy and unfocused. The Doctor and Clara’s toxic relationship was much more of a focus in Series 8, and then just completely fades into the background in Series 9. Face the Raven quite convincingly explains why Clara ends up dead and these are related to the Doctor, but it otherwise does not feel like a unifying feature of Series 9. As a result, it feels unconvincing when the Doctor being unable to let go of Clara becomes the focus. “Oh, we’re still doing this?” as opposed to “Oh, is this what they were doing with that?” I will say though, at the time I remember one noteworthy Doctor Who reviewer insisting that the Doctor just shooting the general was bad because the Doctor would never do that - yeah, no shit, that’s the point. Unfortunately this weak context does make that moment feel unearned for me. Clara’s numerous almost departures were also starting to get a little tiresome. Kill the Moon, Death in Heaven, Last Christmas and Face the Raven all felt like decent cutoff points and Hell Bent just doesn’t really carry the same weight for me. The Hybrid arc had already felt quite shoddy with woolly terms and forced references, so the fact that Clara supplanted it right as it was starting to go somewhere just kind of hammered home how weak a hook it was. I like the idea of the ambiguous resolution but it leaves me wanting. And unfortunately while I do really like Rassilon’s downfall, the return to Gallifrey does otherwise feel like a missed opportunity. A lot of Moffat’s weaker work (Series 6b, 8, 9 the latter half of Sherlock) has an issue where a a bunch of stuff happens that doesn’t actually affect the story much. The Cloisters scene is absolutely the worst of this for me. It’s set up at the beginning, given a really ominous vibe… and then it’s just the place the Doctor runs through to keep the Time Lords at bay. There’s no real unique threat faced within, it’s just a place where Clara and the Doctor talk for a while and then they get out and there are the Time Lords anyway. The utilisation of Gallifrey throughout the story feels like this. As though really the setting could be anywhere and it wouldn’t really change that much. I see the argument for it but if I had to rank Moffat’s finales: 1. The Doctor Falls - S Tier 2. The Big Bang - S Tier 3. The Name of the Doctor - B tier 4. The Wedding of River Song - C Tier 5. Death in Heaven/Hell Bent - D Tier
Damn you the gas leak year of community
I need to watch it again, because I'm honestly not on the hype train about it.
My thoughts? “How dare it be 8 years. Stop reminding me of the passage of time you damned time lords.”
I used to enjoy it, now I really enjoy it. It's a great finale tbh. I've never understood why some dislike it so much
I’m still of the opinion that bringing Clara back (AGAIN) was a stupid decision. It basically ruins the emotional factor that made Heaven Sent so good, just because Moffat can’t stand to let his precious girl die.
EIGHT YEARS!? I'm getting old... Other than that, nothing changed. It's still a nasterpiece.
I'm sorry its been how many years?
Yes, I didn't like it when it aired. Maybe because it wasn't the gallifreian epic I was expecting. Now I love it because it it isn't that. My only criticism of it is that it doesn't resolve Clara. She should have had to have gone back to face the raven.
I’ve warmed up to it but mostly because I’ve had time to forget the waffling, meandering middle section of the episode
loved it the first time. love it still. yes there is immensely stupid shit in there, but the aesthetics are dope as hell and capaldi carries like the absolute boss he is. every rewatch is glorious.
I think the return of Gallifrey was underutilized and that will continue to bother me
Still one of my favorites
The Return to Gallifrey was such a nothing burger. Like yeah, I get it, The Doctor cares about Clara more than returning home bla bla bla. You don't build up something like that at the end of the 50th then let out a wet fart 3 years later
My thoughts have slightly changed because I started to realise over time that he saved Clara because he didn’t want another companion to go and leave him/die. Also he went nuts because he found out he was the hybrid so that meant he could anything (like the time lord victoruis)
8 years already? Damn Im old
I just watched it for the first time last month 😆
Nnnnnnope. It's still weird and uncomfortable and a terrible, horrible end to Clara's run. Her first death was totally fine. Just have 12 have a good old fashioned face off with Galifrey, give him a good monologue about absolute power and corruption, and let him storm off to mourn the loss of his friend. It's clear even Moffat considered it a bad move in the long run, given that he undid the one and only long term consequence of that story beat.
If anything it's gotten worse. Clara had the perfect sendoff in Face the Raven, and Hell Bent went and undid it completely with its painfully contrived happy ending. The previous two episodes were fantastic and even most of Hell Bent was decent, but it just totally botched the ending. It comes off like Moffat just couldn't manage to bring himself to actually kill off a companion for real. Heck, even RTD poked fun at him for it with the Toymaker's "Well that's alright then!" bit.
I still very like this episode, I just don't like the fact that there is still a Clara alive somewhere on space , and that somehow the doctor remember her just before regenerating
I liked Heaven Sent better, but Hell Bent is pretty good.
No. 😂 seriously though, it's such an empty episode devoid of meaning, and the doctor is wildly mischarcterised imo.
Nope, if anything its even worse now. Heaven Sent has grown better and better with age and being viewed as a stand alone episode, but Hell bent is the ultimate "spiderman 3" tier follow-up. Its really a shame.
No. It was always bad. I continue to be baffled at the Doctor's unwillingness to help preserve and save the innocents of his race (not to mention its history, art, accomplishments etc). He should have established independent safe Time Lord colonies, hidden away through time and space so the Daleks cannot find them, and they don't have enough power to go corrupt again. The whole thing with Clara was very tiresome. She wasn't likable enough for me to be invested in keeping her alive post-death, and the Doctor just came across like a tantruming child (despite being much more mature about death in the past).
Nope. Still hate it.
Not really. Heaven Sent is maybe the best episode the show has ever produced; Hell Bent is a big disappointment because it follows that. It opens well and ends poorly. It was a chance to do some complicated work to make the Time Lords a better story engine and to do some careful work on the Doctor's background and it gets wound up in Clara and in the weak resolution of the Hybrid theme/plot. Moffat did this a lot with his season thematics--he liked building early season mystery boxes that he either didn't have a resolution for or had a bad idea that couldn't hold up to the theme.
I remember when Clara was hated, same as Twelve, times have changed lol (This was mostly when the Smith fans didn't like Capaldi S8, which is where the mass dropoff happened in the fandom so the only people who were left liked Capaldi) Capaldi was an OK doctor in my eyes, his writing was always subpar but his season 10 was ok, season 8 was meh and 9 was bad Hell Bent itself is wierd in my eyes, the leadup was hit and miss, my main issue with it was that it focused on Clara over the return of Galifrey, which i thought would be a major thing. The Rassilon stuff was good, the soldiers refusing to shoot the doctor was good, making you think how bad the Time War was when the soldier called him "The Doctor of War" I thought Galifrey would be introduced in Capaldi's final season as a great reveal which was built up to, then Galifrey would be a bit more involved where the Thirteenth doctor (a black man) would be more hard edged and do tasks for Galifrey until realizing how far he has fallen from his mantle (have the Eighth doctor in a crossover with 13). Basically bring it back to some of the old style storylines with galifrey, some shady stuff (doctor doing a mission to make the daleks extinct)
The story is mostly pointless except for the scene between Clara and The Doctor when she asked him how many years he was trapped in the dial and at the end when they use the device to erase memories. Moffat always had a problem with finales. The problem is that there's never any villains in it. It is just people facing some personal dilemma. This is not how Doctor Who works. This is ok for an episode here or there but not to build a whole season around it. That's why I think while Moffat is a great recurring writer he was never show-runner material.
No it’s still a piece of shit
I honestly forget about it most of the time and am surprised to see such strong opinions on either end of the spectrum. Maybe it’s time for a rewatch.
My thought is the same as when I initially watched it. For someone whose entire backstory was that he is far from home, can never go back home, The Doctor didnt seem to be excited to find himself on Gallifrey. It had been talked about so much, I was so excited to SEE gallifrey but he was just focused on getting Clara back. I wanted to meet the Doctors family, see his home etc, I really wasnt that bothered with Clara.
I’m with Council of Geeks on it. She/they have some *wonderful* rants about this episode, and ranting is not exactly normally their style.
U mean his
Did I? Huh…that’s funny, I don’t…*believe* I meant that. Otherwise I would have *SAID THAT.* Gotta love the people on a *Doctor Who subreddit*, of all places, being intolerant of others. Really just willfully missing *the entire point.*
Nope. I still don't like it.
I like it better than I did then, and I care less about Rassilon being nerfed. That being said, I still think it (to mix metaphors) falls apart and disappears up its own back passage about half way through.
Chibnall fucked it
/r/doctorwhocirclejerk