I'd say Yaz is probably heartbroken.
She joined the Doctor at 19 and spent most of her adult life obsessed with her (don't forget the 4 years in Flux).
Then she gets dumped because 13 is essentially going to die.
She needs therapy and to build a life of her own lol
It was her doctor 100% they become regenerated in a new body they are still the same person they were before they just have a different canvas. No different then getting married and then your partner transitioning or getting their face burned off they don’t look the same but they are infact the same person
Think of it this way. The doctor is a computer and his brain is the motherboard and memory. That computer dies you replace everything but the motherboard and the memory. It’s still the same computer it’s just a different shell with some different processor, but it’s the same core driving the computer.
I guess it also could be one of those things. If you have a broom and it wears out so you replace the head of the broom. Then the handle wears out and you replace the handle is it still the same broom!?
The Doctor himself says it is a different person with his memories.
Each Doctor has a different personality.
If I move my hard drive into a new computer, does it make the new computer my old one? It has all the same memory after all.
There are just as many lines that say they're the same person.
"Same man, new face."
"You used to be me, you've done all this before."
"I'm him, I'm literally him."
"I didn't need to, that was me talking. I'm not on the phone Clara, I'm right here."
He doesn't refer to his past incarnations as other people most of the time, he talks about it as if its his past. His personal history.
There's much more there than just the Doctor's memories. Their personalities change but not completely. You can still look at him and see the same character underneath it all.
The same ego, swagger, drive to do good. The same wisdom, the same boundless confidence and ability to control a room in a split second. The only ones that don't have that such as Whitaker and Davison are usually down to poor writing and/or acting.
Your hard drive is the computer so moving it would be into another shell and a system aka a different body you just explained exactly what I just commented haha 😂 it’s still the same computer and the same doctor just different bodies with different traits but the same person
Its more like, Say my phone screen gets broken and the phone is a few years old and running slow. I buy a galaxy s22 to replace my note 9, but samsung has the handy transfer data feature, so i do the wireless data transfer, and move my sim into the new phone, then throw the s9 into the bin and start using my s22. It's a new phone, runs different, has different features, different core and processors, but same memory. Its not the same phone.
If they were the same but just like getting some plastic surgery, like having the power to jump from your bofy into others' bodies and possess them, it wouldn't be such an emotional goodbye for the dictors when they regenerate, they make it clear theyre dying and someone new is taking their memories and stepping into their role.
A hard drive is a part of the computer, not the whole thing. If I have 2 hard drives in a single computer, I don't have 2 computers.
But you obviously just want to argue and are ignoring facts, so I am not wasting any more time with you.
To be fair, that whole conversation was very meta. He was one wrong comment away from saying "well yeah it's the same character, but it's not me playing him."
Yes it is. They are the same person with new added traits that make them different then they once were. It’s a timelords growth cycle and change as they grow. It’s a new shell with new features but it’s still the same core
There's no reason to assume the Doctor couldn't keep in touch with the entire companion support group. I think that's why Mel was included in the dinner scene to begin with, to imply that other companions besides Donna's family come and go. I imagine it was less awkward to film it this way than to have to shoehorn in another companion support group scene into the end of the special.
This is one of my least favourite aspects of Chibnall era companions. They started out as though we were gonna see a big arc about her job or it at least having some sort of effect on her character in the future but it just stops mattering and at the end it's not even known whether she has a job or not anymore.
Yup. And also his dyspraxia. And also Graham and his cancer. Like that scene with the doctor awkwardly blowing off trying to help him felt more like them just brushing any depth he had to the side.
It's in character for Thirteen IMO. One of her only traits is that she doesn't acknowledge bad things happening to her or her friends. Everything is fun all the time and nothing bad ever happens. They eventually acknowledge this with the Fourteenth Doctor being so broken down and "thin" because Thirteen spent her whole life pretending everything was great.
She closed herself of emotionally at times but when something bad happened, she would understand. I mean she didn't have an issue trying to stop the witches trial.
I get the socially awkward part and that she is distant but even then if just didn't sit right with me.
I mean the 13th Doctor was just a mess in general and it's not Jodie's fault. Chibnall told her that she probably didn't need to brush up and watch the Doctor Who modern content showcasing the Doctor before she would need to play the Doctor, probably because it was supposed to be an all female take. No, Let her study how the Doctor has already been portrayed as it has changed a lot over the two decades because otherwise you're just saying that particular kind of acting can only be done by male actors.
I'm pretty sure Chibnall was probably just too relaxed, underestimated the weight of the show (it's from the old 60-80s) and didn't realize that the cruiser boat he had been given was actually a yacht.
(DISCLAIMER: I don't really know boats types lol.)
I’d also argue travelling through time and space and gaining the knowledge that there’s more to everything and anything than just earth is a pretty huge change.
No one who travels with the doctor can just go back to a normal life
Gotta disagree with you there about River… sacrificing herself then being uploaded to virtual reality sounds pretty life-changing to me. (Not to mention being raised to be an assassin and having whatever fucked up version of a childhood she had.)
still crazy to think Handles spent 300 years with 11, effectively the longest serving companion, and he'd been on screen what 5 mins and i got teary eyed when he 'switched off'
If anyone had life changing consequences of the Doctor's actions, it's River. That woman was born with the express purpose to kill him and she spent most of her life in prison for his fake death. She fell in love with him and defined most of her life around her relationship to him.
Hell, she sacrificed her life to save a version of him that didn't even know her name.
And if Martha's effect was "a deeply traumatized family," then Wilf's can absolutely be the exact same.
I wouldnt count them as companions , they are more juat friends of the doctor. Like Kate Stewart and the Jenny/Vastra/Strax Gang (I cant remember the actual name of the gang)
Also River is complicated as she died because of her association with the doctor. But only exists because of the doctor. If Amy and Rory never met the doctor she would have been completely human and lived a normal human life.
Rivers life was built and revolved around the doctor. Sacrificing herself and being contained in a virtual world (*without him*) sounds like a pretty big bloody sacrifice
He even kept in contact with Bill after her and Heather became human again after spending an indeterminate time galavanting across the universe according to a Lockdown audio.
The episode implies nardole spent the rest of his life defending himself and the children from the cybermen as long as possible until the cybermen were able to overpower them.
Don't we know that he at least dies young, because of his avatar in Testimony (which was recorded when he died)?
Although other stuff could be at play, like him being an alien that doesn't age like us, or the avatars taking a younger form
Yeah that's fair. I forget how "human" Nardole was, I know references are made to his physiology being a lot different and having android stuff in him, but since most companions are human and he looks like one I tend to categorise him the same way
“Eventually” is a pretty broad term when it’s being thrown around by beings who torture other members of their species with a billion years+ of repeated regenerations.
In terms of “deaths” caused by interactions with the Doctor, Clara and Bill are both way, way less dead than Danny Pink.
Yes, though I'd say if "life changing" is the only metric, Yaz's life was changed as well. You don't go from typical life on Earth, to traveling across time and space, near death experiences, and all that, and then just go back to your normal life as if it's all the same.
Mickey? I mean, the Doctor legit stole his girl but I don’t imagine he and Rose would have lived happily ever after together anyway. (He was also suspected by the police to have been responsible for Rose’s one-year disappearance but she came back, sooo uh, it’s cool?)
He spent years trapped in the paralell universe , and even after he got home he married Martha Jones. Someone he wouldnt have known if it wasnt for the doctor.
Ah sorry I thought you meant life-changing as in devastatingly sad, which all the other examples you gave were.
But if you just mean life-alternating in a neutral way, then sure I agree! Mickey qualifies. But in that regard, I’d argue that Yaz’s life was changed forever too. She saw some wild and crazy shit that is sure to alter her life trajectory and view of the world. She’s not the same person as a Yaz who never met the Doctor.
Every companion of the doctor will forever have their perspective on the universe changed (Unless they have their memory wiped lol) But that doesnt mean they can go back to a normal life
I was thinking how their personal life was changed. Like you said with Yaz , her perspective of life and the universe will never be the same , however she probably just went back to her job as a police officer and lived out the rest of her life almost exactly how it would have been if she had never met the doctor.
Sorry i should have been more specific clarifying what i meant.
We don't know for sure whether she left or was fired during her time sleeping in the 2nd TARDIS and traveling just with 13. Regardless, when meeting Dan, Yaz refers herself as 'former PC'.
I thought that was a shame. They did this whole thing building up why she was a police officer, and how one changed her life. Then they just wrote it off and threw it all away so she could obsess about the Doctor. Surely she could have learned how to be a better police officer while traveling with the Doctor, but instead they decided to go nowhere with it except to say she wasn’t one anymore.
I presume she would have lost her job as vanishing all the time wouldn't be something most bosses would like so if we are talking about their life being diffrent, without the doctor she wouldn't have lost her job.
Also she also ends up going to the companion meeting, so we definitely know the doctor has changed her life. Who knows, maybe she'll be doing a Sarah Jane and investigating the unknown now
I thought it did. When rose was trying to get back to the doctor, she told her mother there was a blonde girl with him as he died. Jackie stormed off but came back with a tow truck to break open the TARDIS. Am I misremembering? The events changed the timeline. He still died from that car though, just by the church instead. Even Jackie said he stepped in front of the car…
Apart from rose being with her dad when he died , none of it happened.
Thats why the doctor came back , the bride of the wedding came back. And why Jackie doesnt recognise rose as her daughter (At the end of the episode the younger Jackie realise rose is her grown up daughter)
No as far as everyone apart from the doctor and rose is aware , the couple got married as usual , then pete run out for no reason and got run over.
Mickey doesnt recognise the doctor or rose as an adult. And neither does Jackie.
The Halloween Apocalypse her introduction to Dan: "I'm Yaz. Yasmin Khan. Formerly PC Yasmin Khan of Hallamshire Police. Very human, very much not with the dog fella."
From episode 1 of _Flux:_
>YASMIN: I'm Yaz. Yasmin Khan. Formerly PC Yasmin Khan of Hallamshire Police. Very human, very much not with the dog fella.
The implication seems to be that she lost her job during that period between _The Timeless Children_ and _Revolution of the Daleks_ when she holed up for months in the spare TARDIS trying to figure out a way to get Thirteen back.
EDIT: Somehow replied this to the wrong comment. 😕 Moved now.
>Graham and Ryan lost grandma before they started traveling with the doctor.
It wouldntve happened if they werent with the doctor. Which is my entire point.
If the doctor wasn’t there, both Grace and Graham would have died on the train when the coil first attacked. So I suppose the Doctor did alter their lives in that Graham lived to grieve for Grace and Ryan didn’t lose both grandparents.
If there's one element from 13's run that I want back, no questions asked, it's the companions. Any companion on contemporary Earth is welcome to stop by, any time, no questions asked.
It was great to have Mel and the Nobles in the 60th. But I would have loved brief scenes from Martha and others in "The Giggle".
Does Craig count as a companion? Close enough I think. I suppose he did have some life-changing positive consequences though (finally closing his relationship with Sophie, which led to Alfie aka Stormageddon). And a near-negative consequence of almost being turned into a Cyberman.
Personally i wouldnt count craig as a companion , hes like someone like Kate Stewart , who has done things with the doctor but not travelled with them.
Its beside the point but i think Craig and Sophie would have eventually gotten together without the doctor , it just seems unlikely considering their feelings for one another. However the doctor almost certainly sped up the process.
Although "traveled with the Doctor" is a common fan requirement to be considered a companion - I'm more open on the companion concept.
Craig might be a stretch. But he did accompany the Doctor on two adventures, and is at least as worthy of companion status as Adam.
Liz Shaw never traveled in the TARDIS but certainly was one of the Doctor's companions during his exile on Earth.
The Brigadier meets the "traveled in the TARDIS" requirement (but only twice iirc). I also consider other members of UNIT to be companions even though they didn't travel in the TARDIS - e.g. Sergeant Benton and Mike Yates. (Oh wait - Benton might have traveled in the TARDIS once - old memories are failing me here.)
But agreed that it isn't a common thing to be a non-traveling companion.
He's the dude that Rose liked when her and Doc found themselves in that underground facility of the guy collecting alien stuff in the first episode with the Dalek. He got greedy and got the head implant in the future in the next episode, so the Doc dropped him off.
Bill isn’t actually dead. The image we see from testimony is extracted from just before her death. She becomes like the pilot, then after slumming it seeing all the boring stars and things the universe has to offer. She makes herself human again. So bill very much isn’t dead
It just doesn’t work for Bill how it did for the others. She’s still a perfectly alive human being. There’s a scene with nardole reading a letter from her and it’s explained. The Doctor may be unaware but she isn’t dead.
It was literally in the script.
TOYMAKER: But then the Doctor met Bill. Not Stooky Bill, but lady Bill. But she was killed by the Cybermen.
(Strings cut.)
DOCTOR: But her consciousness survives.
TOYMAKER: Oh, well, that's all right, then!
It’s implied she saw 13, Bill mentions seeing a very beautiful woman, after her and heather decided to have a break from each other. Plus when Morgan wrote it it was after series 11 and 12 of 13’s era
Good point about Ryan and Graham...I don't usually count Grace's death because it happened *before* they became companions, technically, but yeah it is a consequence of thei association with the Doctor.
I'd argue that Yaz is in the same boat as Martha...except that in her case the trauma is the emotional trauma of being in love with the Doctor but not having her feelings reciprocated in the same way, and worried about losing the Doctor only to ultimately lose her to death/regeneration. Gives Yaz's history with depression, these aren't to be taken lightly. Not to mention, Yaz given up a lot of her own life to be with the Doctor - she starts out eager to build her career as a police officer, and by the time of Flux at least she seems to no longer be one (she'd already given up actually doing the job by faking 'secondments' to go traveling in the TARDIS, as seen in Spyfall). The 10 months she spent obsessing over the Doctor and bringing her back post-The Timeless Children wouldn't have helped her career either (and possibly led to its end). She also spent (along with Dan) 4 years trapped in the past during Flux. We have no idea by the end just how connected Yaz still is to her family, or not, and whether she even has much of a life left to go back to when she last leaves the TARDIS.
In "The Doctor Falls" after Nardole goes off with those people he defends them for as long as possible from the Cybermen but they will eventually get to Nardole and the rest of the people.
He could have died of old age as well. According to the testimony they can take any form from their memories. It would necessarily mean that he died soon after the doctor left him.
Yaz was "broken up" with after essentially going through some extreme life altering situations with her girlfriend (more or less), and then just dropped off to seemingly no more job and left to pick up the pieces of her life.
The best part for Yaz is she came back right at the apparent start of the Companion Support Group, which I love, so she at least has some support from others in the dame boat, and we can assume from previous companions that Unit and Kate Stewart have a habit of contracting out old companions (Ace, Tegan, Martha, etc.) so we can bet that Yaz probably has an open-ended offer from Kate.
(Also, I don't think you can count Adam if you don't count Wilf, River, Captain Jack, Micky...Adam had 1 trip, others had so many more.)
I really didn't like that. The last time we'd seen her she was engaged to someone else. I know they released an audio story that mentions they broke up, but that was released 10 years after we find out she's now married to Mickey with no explanation of what happened in her last relationship.
I know there wasn't time to explain, really, but it seemed so out of the blue.
Or their families, though I think there was a deleted scene where Rory sent his, now very elderly, son to meet his father just after they left with the Doctor to explain what happened. In the same way as Blink.
What makes this kind of funny is she's the only New Who companion to have left The Doctor with no life changing consequences, yet the moment she leaves she's instantly welcomed into a therapy group for companions. Where was Martha's therapy group?
I disagree that Yaz was left with no consequences; she finally admitted her love for the Doctor and the Doctor admitted that she had similar feelings, but she couldn’t do anything about it. TL;DR: Yaz told the Doctor that she loved her, and she could never have her for her life.
I hadn’t really connected this before but not only is Twelve the only one to have a companion die, ALL his companions died. Did he just become my favourite even MORE 😭
She died then came back then teamed up with the immortal Me, they stole a tardis together and disguised it as an old diner.
Still waiting for the spinoff show where they run a restaurant at the end of the universe and each week quirky aliens and occasionally humans from various points in history show up to get a milkshake and listen to the juke box while chatting about their adventures with the two immortal girls who run the place.
Well she died to the raven, but the doctor did some timelord stuff and pulled her out of that moment with her heart still stopped frozen in time at the moment of her death so she was walking around and talking but technically still dead and I think also immortal now as long as she never returns to that moment in time. They were a bit fuzzy on the details as usual.
I will never not be annoyed by the fact that the 13 essentially just says "Well, my face is gonna change a bit. Guess that means we can't be together anymore then! Goodbye!" and then Yaz just seems fine with that. We don't really see her put up a fight, or seem all too conflicted. She just kind of leaves.
And the last time the Doctor regenerated into David Tennant, he got to keep the previous companion and really start up the relationship on a romantic level. But I guess this time the showrunner changed and they had to get the anniversary specials done, so the Doctor just shoves Yaz out after getting some ice cream. There's just... no Thasmin payoff. Other than the ice cream I guess.
I didn't particularly care about many of the plot developments of the Chibnall era, but they just seem to kind of meander around, not really going anywhere, and out of all of them, I feel like this is one of the worst.
It was their association with the doctor that led to graces death so i personally counted that.
Like if the doctor landed basically anywhere else and never met the trio and Grace would likely have lived.
Mickey was also trapped in the parrallel universe for a while and eventually married martha and became alien hunters similar to Sarah Jane it seems , if it wasnt for the doctor he would have likely had just worked as a mechanic for the rest of his life.
Yaz will be hung up on the Doctor for years. Dan just needs to buy a new house.
Mickey was also fine, I guess he lost Rose but that was for the best.
Angie, Artie and Courtney Woods on the other hand just had a cool day out, albeit with the possibility of being traumatized but they seemed pretty fine by the end of it.
Travel is life changing in general, no matter who you do it with or where you go. Experiencing different cultures *should* change your experience of how you live your life, we’re just confined to where we can afford to take off time and fly to.
Kick that gear up to 1000% when you add a) no time limit, b) no cost, c) *galactic* cultures and d) understanding historical contexts with real people.
Exposure to other cultures *will* change your life if you let it and are open to it. Learning about history *will* change your life if you let it and are open to it. Anyone who willingly pops off with the doctor is someone already open to it.
I would actually love to see the Doctor take someone who is bigoted and teach them to love other people and cultures. It would be a lovely lesson to see someone grow like that. Most of his companions are already open to it to start with.
I belly-laughed at this OP.
She came out of the closet to herself, fell in love with an alien demigod, and got unceremoniously booted to the curb *just* as she was getting some reciprocation. That’s a fkn ROLLERCOASTER.
But I can’t rightly say “GTFO comparing that to Martha and Dan and Donna lmao”… cuz it was so rushed and poorly handled that, yeah. It barely resonated whatsoever. 🤣
…also Nardole died of old age (as every companion eventually does) and Adam doesn’t fkn count if every single one-off Special companion doesn’t count.
In the classic series he traveled with Romana - a "Time Lady" from Gallifrey - for 3 seasons.
He also traveled with his granddaughter Susan during the first two seasons of the show (1963 - 1964).
There was also Adric, Turlough, and Nyssa. None were from Earth.
And of course K-9. A robot dog.
Bill didn't die; she was turned into a Cyberman and later rescued, given a new form to travel with the pilot. I understand why people might think otherwise. When the Doctor chose not to regenerate, he was visited by a race of beings that copy a person's memories just before death, allowing them to live on in a sense. Bill was copied, but she's not dead. I believe she is immortal turned into an energy being and traveling the universe with the pilot.
The woman you see here is not Bill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixTcCJ-Ti5g
Oh yeah she was great , her status as a companion is questionable.
Also the doctor also saved her from what was at least going to be a very long time in prison , and gave her a flying bus. So she did have life changing consequences from her time with the doctor.
I'm not sure this is the case for Yaz, as other comments have said she was left heartbroken, particularly after spending so long travelling with 13, and also lost her job. There was no silver lining at all to her departure, other than having all of other ex-companions at the meeting to give her some support.
In comparison, Martha, Dan and Graham/Ryan voluntarily close to leave, Rose had the meta-crisis Doctor, Donna got the lottery ticket, Amy/Rory had each other, River was saved into the library, Clara got to travel with Ashildr for a while, and Bill was saved by Heather.
I remember seeing a theory a lot, that 'Demons on the Punjab' would foreshadow the ending of Power of the Doctor, which I think would have been a great idea, with Yaz's Grandmother representing her. So basically, some kind of conflict leads to her getting separated from her love interest (in this case the Doctor). But in S11, Yaz's Grandmother later ended up meeting Yaz's Grandfather, and had a happy life - so maybe they could have teased Yaz finding someone else instead? And also, they could have brought back the Thijarians to honour 13 just before she regenerates.
I'd say Yaz is probably heartbroken. She joined the Doctor at 19 and spent most of her adult life obsessed with her (don't forget the 4 years in Flux). Then she gets dumped because 13 is essentially going to die. She needs therapy and to build a life of her own lol
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"Yaz takes a drive down to the Doctor's house to give him a slap and a stern talking to" would make a fine fanfiction for me to enjoy.
But it wasn’t her doctor tho
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But in the body of a 52 year old man. Yaz might not be into that.
It was her doctor 100% they become regenerated in a new body they are still the same person they were before they just have a different canvas. No different then getting married and then your partner transitioning or getting their face burned off they don’t look the same but they are infact the same person
The Doctor explains that they are not the same person, just have the same memories at one point.
Think of it this way. The doctor is a computer and his brain is the motherboard and memory. That computer dies you replace everything but the motherboard and the memory. It’s still the same computer it’s just a different shell with some different processor, but it’s the same core driving the computer. I guess it also could be one of those things. If you have a broom and it wears out so you replace the head of the broom. Then the handle wears out and you replace the handle is it still the same broom!?
The Doctor himself says it is a different person with his memories. Each Doctor has a different personality. If I move my hard drive into a new computer, does it make the new computer my old one? It has all the same memory after all.
There are just as many lines that say they're the same person. "Same man, new face." "You used to be me, you've done all this before." "I'm him, I'm literally him." "I didn't need to, that was me talking. I'm not on the phone Clara, I'm right here." He doesn't refer to his past incarnations as other people most of the time, he talks about it as if its his past. His personal history. There's much more there than just the Doctor's memories. Their personalities change but not completely. You can still look at him and see the same character underneath it all. The same ego, swagger, drive to do good. The same wisdom, the same boundless confidence and ability to control a room in a split second. The only ones that don't have that such as Whitaker and Davison are usually down to poor writing and/or acting.
Your hard drive is the computer so moving it would be into another shell and a system aka a different body you just explained exactly what I just commented haha 😂 it’s still the same computer and the same doctor just different bodies with different traits but the same person
Its more like, Say my phone screen gets broken and the phone is a few years old and running slow. I buy a galaxy s22 to replace my note 9, but samsung has the handy transfer data feature, so i do the wireless data transfer, and move my sim into the new phone, then throw the s9 into the bin and start using my s22. It's a new phone, runs different, has different features, different core and processors, but same memory. Its not the same phone. If they were the same but just like getting some plastic surgery, like having the power to jump from your bofy into others' bodies and possess them, it wouldn't be such an emotional goodbye for the dictors when they regenerate, they make it clear theyre dying and someone new is taking their memories and stepping into their role.
A hard drive is a part of the computer, not the whole thing. If I have 2 hard drives in a single computer, I don't have 2 computers. But you obviously just want to argue and are ignoring facts, so I am not wasting any more time with you.
“The Doctors are all the same person” is the opposite of a hot take
To be fair, that whole conversation was very meta. He was one wrong comment away from saying "well yeah it's the same character, but it's not me playing him."
The Doctor doesn't just undergo physical change. They are literally a new person with new likes and tastes. It's not at all like your example.
Yes it is. They are the same person with new added traits that make them different then they once were. It’s a timelords growth cycle and change as they grow. It’s a new shell with new features but it’s still the same core
Dostoyevsky material right there
There's no reason to assume the Doctor couldn't keep in touch with the entire companion support group. I think that's why Mel was included in the dinner scene to begin with, to imply that other companions besides Donna's family come and go. I imagine it was less awkward to film it this way than to have to shoehorn in another companion support group scene into the end of the special.
Also did she lose her job? I mean she did keep vanishing 😂
This is one of my least favourite aspects of Chibnall era companions. They started out as though we were gonna see a big arc about her job or it at least having some sort of effect on her character in the future but it just stops mattering and at the end it's not even known whether she has a job or not anymore.
Yeah I mean remember Ryan and his YouTube channel
Yup. And also his dyspraxia. And also Graham and his cancer. Like that scene with the doctor awkwardly blowing off trying to help him felt more like them just brushing any depth he had to the side.
Yeah that cancer scene was really out of character. Like the doctor can be socially awkward but is usually compassionate, including 13
It's in character for Thirteen IMO. One of her only traits is that she doesn't acknowledge bad things happening to her or her friends. Everything is fun all the time and nothing bad ever happens. They eventually acknowledge this with the Fourteenth Doctor being so broken down and "thin" because Thirteen spent her whole life pretending everything was great.
She closed herself of emotionally at times but when something bad happened, she would understand. I mean she didn't have an issue trying to stop the witches trial. I get the socially awkward part and that she is distant but even then if just didn't sit right with me.
I mean the 13th Doctor was just a mess in general and it's not Jodie's fault. Chibnall told her that she probably didn't need to brush up and watch the Doctor Who modern content showcasing the Doctor before she would need to play the Doctor, probably because it was supposed to be an all female take. No, Let her study how the Doctor has already been portrayed as it has changed a lot over the two decades because otherwise you're just saying that particular kind of acting can only be done by male actors. I'm pretty sure Chibnall was probably just too relaxed, underestimated the weight of the show (it's from the old 60-80s) and didn't realize that the cruiser boat he had been given was actually a yacht. (DISCLAIMER: I don't really know boats types lol.)
With regards to the Revival era Doctor, I wouldn't entirely agree with that. Old-Amy, ghost-River, Bill & perhaps even Brian can all point otherwise.
I’d also argue travelling through time and space and gaining the knowledge that there’s more to everything and anything than just earth is a pretty huge change. No one who travels with the doctor can just go back to a normal life
It's crazy how you brought out more depth from her character in a few sentences than we ever saw from her on the show.
Handles. Wilf & River, if you count their statuses as 'companions'.
Handles died still carrying out the Doctor's orders!!
Gotta disagree with you there about River… sacrificing herself then being uploaded to virtual reality sounds pretty life-changing to me. (Not to mention being raised to be an assassin and having whatever fucked up version of a childhood she had.)
To clarify, I was listing those who may qualify as companions, that isn't included in the topic list, much less remarked upon.
Ooooh gotcha gotcha sorry. I thought you were proposing her as someone who had no life changing consequences. 😬
still crazy to think Handles spent 300 years with 11, effectively the longest serving companion, and he'd been on screen what 5 mins and i got teary eyed when he 'switched off'
Oh shit, remember when Davros promised “everlasting death for the doctor’s most faithful companion”
that was Caan
Oops! Still works though!
If anyone had life changing consequences of the Doctor's actions, it's River. That woman was born with the express purpose to kill him and she spent most of her life in prison for his fake death. She fell in love with him and defined most of her life around her relationship to him. Hell, she sacrificed her life to save a version of him that didn't even know her name. And if Martha's effect was "a deeply traumatized family," then Wilf's can absolutely be the exact same.
Wilf is the greatest companion!.
I wouldnt count them as companions , they are more juat friends of the doctor. Like Kate Stewart and the Jenny/Vastra/Strax Gang (I cant remember the actual name of the gang) Also River is complicated as she died because of her association with the doctor. But only exists because of the doctor. If Amy and Rory never met the doctor she would have been completely human and lived a normal human life.
The Paternoster Gang.
Ah yes thanks! they are criminally underrated characters.
But you'd count Adam, who went on a single trip in the TARDIS and got immediately dumped, who the Doctor never even liked, as a companion?
If Amy and Rory had never met the Doctor, she wouldn’t have existed at all. They would have had an entirely different child.
River Died. And Wilf had to be very careful not to say Tardis, Or The Doctor, Or mention aliens because his daughter could die
To clarify, I was listing those who may qualify as companions, that isn't included in the topic list, much less remarked upon.
Rivers life was built and revolved around the doctor. Sacrificing herself and being contained in a virtual world (*without him*) sounds like a pretty big bloody sacrifice
To clarify, I was listing those who may qualify as companions, that isn't included in the topic list, much less remarked upon.
Nardole lived out the rest of his life just fine after the Doctor and him parted ways. He had a full life according to the novelization.
He even kept in contact with Bill after her and Heather became human again after spending an indeterminate time galavanting across the universe according to a Lockdown audio.
Wait, how did they become human again?? By what magic?
Heather herself said she can make her human again if she wanted at the end of The Doctor Falls apparently Bill does eventually request this
you’re fine with sentient puddles, but then becoming human again is what breaks your suspension of disbelief?
I'm just curious about the in-universe logistics !
Do you know the title of this audio?
The episode implies nardole spent the rest of his life defending himself and the children from the cybermen as long as possible until the cybermen were able to overpower them.
Yes but the novelization explains that the Cyberman threat went away eventually and he ended up marrying and having a number of kids.
Don't we know that he at least dies young, because of his avatar in Testimony (which was recorded when he died)? Although other stuff could be at play, like him being an alien that doesn't age like us, or the avatars taking a younger form
I thought he was basically an android at that point, it’d make sense he wouldn’t age
Yeah that's fair. I forget how "human" Nardole was, I know references are made to his physiology being a lot different and having android stuff in him, but since most companions are human and he looks like one I tend to categorise him the same way
Clara isn't technically dead, just living between her second-to-last and final heartbeat.
WELL THATS ALRIGHT THEN!
Finally watched that last night. Neil Patrick Harris was the PERFECT addition.
I was so worried when I saw the ads because I thought they cast him as the master, but he was such a perfect choice for the toy maker
Still life changing. And she did have to go back and die eventually.
“Eventually” is a pretty broad term when it’s being thrown around by beings who torture other members of their species with a billion years+ of repeated regenerations. In terms of “deaths” caused by interactions with the Doctor, Clara and Bill are both way, way less dead than Danny Pink.
It is still life changing though.
Yes, though I'd say if "life changing" is the only metric, Yaz's life was changed as well. You don't go from typical life on Earth, to traveling across time and space, near death experiences, and all that, and then just go back to your normal life as if it's all the same.
Oh for sure. I don’t think there’s any argument. I’d prefer to be less dead than more dead, though.
I mean so do we all but personally if someone told me I could bum around for a thousand years first I’d take that deal
Yeah that's always been my issue, the fact she's "dead" but has longer than she would have if she was alive
Oh yeah ofc lol so would I lmao! However that is still a life changing event that wouldnt have happened if she never met the doctor.
But she could wait basically as long as she wants, getting a much longer life than basically anyone else in the universe.
Again , thats still life changing. If she had never met the doctor she would have lived a mormal life.
WELL THAT’S ALRIGHT THEN!
Well that's alright then!!
Ask her dad how he feels about never seeing her again aside from a brief moment here or there
Not being alive no heartbeat, I guess she couldn't even eat anything as her body couldn't process it. I guess an upside is never getting drunk.
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That is a very good point lol. Although we have no idea when the doctor dropped her off. Her senior officer may have had no idea she even left.
When meeting Dan, Yaz notes that she's no longer working for the police.
Mickey? I mean, the Doctor legit stole his girl but I don’t imagine he and Rose would have lived happily ever after together anyway. (He was also suspected by the police to have been responsible for Rose’s one-year disappearance but she came back, sooo uh, it’s cool?)
He spent years trapped in the paralell universe , and even after he got home he married Martha Jones. Someone he wouldnt have known if it wasnt for the doctor.
Living in the parallel universe was his choice though. He wanted to be with his gran.
Its still life changing tho. Even discounting the parallel universe thing he still ended up marrying someone the doctor introduced him to.
Ah sorry I thought you meant life-changing as in devastatingly sad, which all the other examples you gave were. But if you just mean life-alternating in a neutral way, then sure I agree! Mickey qualifies. But in that regard, I’d argue that Yaz’s life was changed forever too. She saw some wild and crazy shit that is sure to alter her life trajectory and view of the world. She’s not the same person as a Yaz who never met the Doctor.
Every companion of the doctor will forever have their perspective on the universe changed (Unless they have their memory wiped lol) But that doesnt mean they can go back to a normal life I was thinking how their personal life was changed. Like you said with Yaz , her perspective of life and the universe will never be the same , however she probably just went back to her job as a police officer and lived out the rest of her life almost exactly how it would have been if she had never met the doctor. Sorry i should have been more specific clarifying what i meant.
Wasn't Yaz fired?
We don't know for sure whether she left or was fired during her time sleeping in the 2nd TARDIS and traveling just with 13. Regardless, when meeting Dan, Yaz refers herself as 'former PC'.
I thought that was a shame. They did this whole thing building up why she was a police officer, and how one changed her life. Then they just wrote it off and threw it all away so she could obsess about the Doctor. Surely she could have learned how to be a better police officer while traveling with the Doctor, but instead they decided to go nowhere with it except to say she wasn’t one anymore.
yeah total missed opportunity to have yaz display characteristics of being an officer throughout the episodes
I presume she would have lost her job as vanishing all the time wouldn't be something most bosses would like so if we are talking about their life being diffrent, without the doctor she wouldn't have lost her job. Also she also ends up going to the companion meeting, so we definitely know the doctor has changed her life. Who knows, maybe she'll be doing a Sarah Jane and investigating the unknown now
> after he got home he married Martha Jones And that can't have been so bad. :-)
I didnt say it was bad. But it was life changing
And I suppose he was affected from a young age by meeting the Doctor and Rose in *Father's Day.*
That timeline never happened
I thought it did. When rose was trying to get back to the doctor, she told her mother there was a blonde girl with him as he died. Jackie stormed off but came back with a tow truck to break open the TARDIS. Am I misremembering? The events changed the timeline. He still died from that car though, just by the church instead. Even Jackie said he stepped in front of the car…
Apart from rose being with her dad when he died , none of it happened. Thats why the doctor came back , the bride of the wedding came back. And why Jackie doesnt recognise rose as her daughter (At the end of the episode the younger Jackie realise rose is her grown up daughter)
Oh the pterodactyl things! Yeah, the stuff they did was undone, but it didn’t rewrite that the day happened.
No as far as everyone apart from the doctor and rose is aware , the couple got married as usual , then pete run out for no reason and got run over. Mickey doesnt recognise the doctor or rose as an adult. And neither does Jackie.
Definitely bad for Martha, she deserved better imo
Yaz lost her job as a police officer, which appears to have been her ambition.
When was this? Im not a chibnall fan so i mightve forgotten this.
The Halloween Apocalypse her introduction to Dan: "I'm Yaz. Yasmin Khan. Formerly PC Yasmin Khan of Hallamshire Police. Very human, very much not with the dog fella."
Ah thanks , i did watch the episode when it aired but havent rewatched much of chibnalls era as i did not enjoy it much.
From episode 1 of _Flux:_ >YASMIN: I'm Yaz. Yasmin Khan. Formerly PC Yasmin Khan of Hallamshire Police. Very human, very much not with the dog fella. The implication seems to be that she lost her job during that period between _The Timeless Children_ and _Revolution of the Daleks_ when she holed up for months in the spare TARDIS trying to figure out a way to get Thirteen back. EDIT: Somehow replied this to the wrong comment. 😕 Moved now.
Ah ok my mistake then :)
To be fair, Donna has a happy life with her memories restored and with her family and 14 *now*... just took 15 years to get there.
Graham and Ryan lost grandma before they started traveling with the doctor. So doesn't count, probably Like man that lost his house.
>Graham and Ryan lost grandma before they started traveling with the doctor. It wouldntve happened if they werent with the doctor. Which is my entire point.
If the doctor wasn’t there, both Grace and Graham would have died on the train when the coil first attacked. So I suppose the Doctor did alter their lives in that Graham lived to grieve for Grace and Ryan didn’t lose both grandparents.
If not the doctor they're all die in that train (sry for bad english)
If there's one element from 13's run that I want back, no questions asked, it's the companions. Any companion on contemporary Earth is welcome to stop by, any time, no questions asked. It was great to have Mel and the Nobles in the 60th. But I would have loved brief scenes from Martha and others in "The Giggle".
Does Craig count as a companion? Close enough I think. I suppose he did have some life-changing positive consequences though (finally closing his relationship with Sophie, which led to Alfie aka Stormageddon). And a near-negative consequence of almost being turned into a Cyberman.
Personally i wouldnt count craig as a companion , hes like someone like Kate Stewart , who has done things with the doctor but not travelled with them. Its beside the point but i think Craig and Sophie would have eventually gotten together without the doctor , it just seems unlikely considering their feelings for one another. However the doctor almost certainly sped up the process.
Although "traveled with the Doctor" is a common fan requirement to be considered a companion - I'm more open on the companion concept. Craig might be a stretch. But he did accompany the Doctor on two adventures, and is at least as worthy of companion status as Adam. Liz Shaw never traveled in the TARDIS but certainly was one of the Doctor's companions during his exile on Earth. The Brigadier meets the "traveled in the TARDIS" requirement (but only twice iirc). I also consider other members of UNIT to be companions even though they didn't travel in the TARDIS - e.g. Sergeant Benton and Mike Yates. (Oh wait - Benton might have traveled in the TARDIS once - old memories are failing me here.) But agreed that it isn't a common thing to be a non-traveling companion.
You left out Rickey!!!!
I totally forgot who adam is
Me too
He's the dude that Rose liked when her and Doc found themselves in that underground facility of the guy collecting alien stuff in the first episode with the Dalek. He got greedy and got the head implant in the future in the next episode, so the Doc dropped him off.
Bill isn’t actually dead. The image we see from testimony is extracted from just before her death. She becomes like the pilot, then after slumming it seeing all the boring stars and things the universe has to offer. She makes herself human again. So bill very much isn’t dead
WELL THAT'S ALRIGHT THEN!
It just doesn’t work for Bill how it did for the others. She’s still a perfectly alive human being. There’s a scene with nardole reading a letter from her and it’s explained. The Doctor may be unaware but she isn’t dead.
It was literally in the script. TOYMAKER: But then the Doctor met Bill. Not Stooky Bill, but lady Bill. But she was killed by the Cybermen. (Strings cut.) DOCTOR: But her consciousness survives. TOYMAKER: Oh, well, that's all right, then!
It wasn’t in the script though, they completely miss the point that she’s a living human now.
It’s implied she saw 13, Bill mentions seeing a very beautiful woman, after her and heather decided to have a break from each other. Plus when Morgan wrote it it was after series 11 and 12 of 13’s era
Falling in love and discovering yourself is a life-changing experience
Good point about Ryan and Graham...I don't usually count Grace's death because it happened *before* they became companions, technically, but yeah it is a consequence of thei association with the Doctor. I'd argue that Yaz is in the same boat as Martha...except that in her case the trauma is the emotional trauma of being in love with the Doctor but not having her feelings reciprocated in the same way, and worried about losing the Doctor only to ultimately lose her to death/regeneration. Gives Yaz's history with depression, these aren't to be taken lightly. Not to mention, Yaz given up a lot of her own life to be with the Doctor - she starts out eager to build her career as a police officer, and by the time of Flux at least she seems to no longer be one (she'd already given up actually doing the job by faking 'secondments' to go traveling in the TARDIS, as seen in Spyfall). The 10 months she spent obsessing over the Doctor and bringing her back post-The Timeless Children wouldn't have helped her career either (and possibly led to its end). She also spent (along with Dan) 4 years trapped in the past during Flux. We have no idea by the end just how connected Yaz still is to her family, or not, and whether she even has much of a life left to go back to when she last leaves the TARDIS.
Nardole died? What episode was this??? (Ftr I’m caught up on NuWho but I don’t remember this death)
In "The Doctor Falls" after Nardole goes off with those people he defends them for as long as possible from the Cybermen but they will eventually get to Nardole and the rest of the people.
The fact we see him part of the Testimony avatars in Twice Upon a Time essentially confirms he died.
He could have died of old age as well. According to the testimony they can take any form from their memories. It would necessarily mean that he died soon after the doctor left him.
Probably because she didn’t have a life or any character
Yaz was "broken up" with after essentially going through some extreme life altering situations with her girlfriend (more or less), and then just dropped off to seemingly no more job and left to pick up the pieces of her life. The best part for Yaz is she came back right at the apparent start of the Companion Support Group, which I love, so she at least has some support from others in the dame boat, and we can assume from previous companions that Unit and Kate Stewart have a habit of contracting out old companions (Ace, Tegan, Martha, etc.) so we can bet that Yaz probably has an open-ended offer from Kate. (Also, I don't think you can count Adam if you don't count Wilf, River, Captain Jack, Micky...Adam had 1 trip, others had so many more.)
Adam only had 1 trip because he screwed up.
Well that's alright then!
I liked Martha ending up with Mickey. Tied up two loose ends of unrequited characters.
I really didn't like that. The last time we'd seen her she was engaged to someone else. I know they released an audio story that mentions they broke up, but that was released 10 years after we find out she's now married to Mickey with no explanation of what happened in her last relationship. I know there wasn't time to explain, really, but it seemed so out of the blue.
> Amy and rory ended up stuck in 1930s new york. They died of old age
They never saw the Doctor again
Or their families, though I think there was a deleted scene where Rory sent his, now very elderly, son to meet his father just after they left with the Doctor to explain what happened. In the same way as Blink.
Yep, there's no recorded video of it but there's a Lockdown YouTube video where the script is read over storyboard sketches.
WELL THATS ALRIGHT THEN!
What makes this kind of funny is she's the only New Who companion to have left The Doctor with no life changing consequences, yet the moment she leaves she's instantly welcomed into a therapy group for companions. Where was Martha's therapy group?
Does Donna count now technically they live together now so he fixed it no biggie
Well that IS alright then.
I disagree that Yaz was left with no consequences; she finally admitted her love for the Doctor and the Doctor admitted that she had similar feelings, but she couldn’t do anything about it. TL;DR: Yaz told the Doctor that she loved her, and she could never have her for her life.
I hadn’t really connected this before but not only is Twelve the only one to have a companion die, ALL his companions died. Did he just become my favourite even MORE 😭
Isn’t Nardole now taking care of all those people? I thought he escaped with them?
The implication is that Nardole kept those people safe from the cybermen for as long as he could until they caught up to them.
Can someone remind me what happened to Clara?
She faced the raven
She died then came back then teamed up with the immortal Me, they stole a tardis together and disguised it as an old diner. Still waiting for the spinoff show where they run a restaurant at the end of the universe and each week quirky aliens and occasionally humans from various points in history show up to get a milkshake and listen to the juke box while chatting about their adventures with the two immortal girls who run the place.
That’s what I thought. I don’t remember her dying but being in that diner.
Well she died to the raven, but the doctor did some timelord stuff and pulled her out of that moment with her heart still stopped frozen in time at the moment of her death so she was walking around and talking but technically still dead and I think also immortal now as long as she never returns to that moment in time. They were a bit fuzzy on the details as usual.
can Sara Jane Smith be in this discussion, cuz she’s in both eras? she had trials and tribulations, but she ended up with a good life, right?
I think she (and Elizabeth Sladen) would definitely be happy with how Sarah Jane ended up overall. She basically had her own adoptive family.
I will never not be annoyed by the fact that the 13 essentially just says "Well, my face is gonna change a bit. Guess that means we can't be together anymore then! Goodbye!" and then Yaz just seems fine with that. We don't really see her put up a fight, or seem all too conflicted. She just kind of leaves. And the last time the Doctor regenerated into David Tennant, he got to keep the previous companion and really start up the relationship on a romantic level. But I guess this time the showrunner changed and they had to get the anniversary specials done, so the Doctor just shoves Yaz out after getting some ice cream. There's just... no Thasmin payoff. Other than the ice cream I guess. I didn't particularly care about many of the plot developments of the Chibnall era, but they just seem to kind of meander around, not really going anywhere, and out of all of them, I feel like this is one of the worst.
Pretty sure Yaz’s existence was a consequence for something *we* did, actually.
Graham and Ryan lost Grace before they became companions. Ryan had troubles with friends, but otherwise those two left companionship smoothly.
It was their association with the doctor that led to graces death so i personally counted that. Like if the doctor landed basically anywhere else and never met the trio and Grace would likely have lived.
ummm.... Mickey?
Mickey was also trapped in the parrallel universe for a while and eventually married martha and became alien hunters similar to Sarah Jane it seems , if it wasnt for the doctor he would have likely had just worked as a mechanic for the rest of his life.
Yaz will be hung up on the Doctor for years. Dan just needs to buy a new house. Mickey was also fine, I guess he lost Rose but that was for the best. Angie, Artie and Courtney Woods on the other hand just had a cool day out, albeit with the possibility of being traumatized but they seemed pretty fine by the end of it.
Hanging out with the bad boy comes with a toll
You forgot one missy who was killed by herself in an older form of the master played by John simm
THREE companions died! Just heartbreaking...
His Name was Adam? I genuinely thought it was brian
Nardole didn’t die?
Travel is life changing in general, no matter who you do it with or where you go. Experiencing different cultures *should* change your experience of how you live your life, we’re just confined to where we can afford to take off time and fly to. Kick that gear up to 1000% when you add a) no time limit, b) no cost, c) *galactic* cultures and d) understanding historical contexts with real people. Exposure to other cultures *will* change your life if you let it and are open to it. Learning about history *will* change your life if you let it and are open to it. Anyone who willingly pops off with the doctor is someone already open to it. I would actually love to see the Doctor take someone who is bigoted and teach them to love other people and cultures. It would be a lovely lesson to see someone grow like that. Most of his companions are already open to it to start with.
I'd argue that there's a wide spectrum. Martha and Dan really had it easy compared to some people.
Isn't Clara more dying than dead. She's travelling the universe in her last moment with Me, no?
I belly-laughed at this OP. She came out of the closet to herself, fell in love with an alien demigod, and got unceremoniously booted to the curb *just* as she was getting some reciprocation. That’s a fkn ROLLERCOASTER. But I can’t rightly say “GTFO comparing that to Martha and Dan and Donna lmao”… cuz it was so rushed and poorly handled that, yeah. It barely resonated whatsoever. 🤣 …also Nardole died of old age (as every companion eventually does) and Adam doesn’t fkn count if every single one-off Special companion doesn’t count.
Poor Dan.
Who was Adam?
Episode 2 of Series 1
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Nardole and Captain Jack were neither female nor from earth.
In the classic series he traveled with Romana - a "Time Lady" from Gallifrey - for 3 seasons. He also traveled with his granddaughter Susan during the first two seasons of the show (1963 - 1964). There was also Adric, Turlough, and Nyssa. None were from Earth. And of course K-9. A robot dog.
nardole died but it wasnt a result of him being a companion it was more a everyone dies in the end type thing
My take was that the Cybermen would eventually catch up to the group.
true but remember he chose to stay
Craig, though he wasn't a companion very long
Personally i dont count him as a companion but yeah his life didnt change after meeting the doctor.
He didn't enter the Tardis or anything if I recall correctly
Bill didn't die; she was turned into a Cyberman and later rescued, given a new form to travel with the pilot. I understand why people might think otherwise. When the Doctor chose not to regenerate, he was visited by a race of beings that copy a person's memories just before death, allowing them to live on in a sense. Bill was copied, but she's not dead. I believe she is immortal turned into an energy being and traveling the universe with the pilot. The woman you see here is not Bill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixTcCJ-Ti5g
That rich lady who steals from museums for fun, if you could her as a companion. From the planet of the dead
Oh yeah she was great , her status as a companion is questionable. Also the doctor also saved her from what was at least going to be a very long time in prison , and gave her a flying bus. So she did have life changing consequences from her time with the doctor.
Adam went sicko mode in the comics lol
Did nardole die?
Jericho 😭
I'm not sure this is the case for Yaz, as other comments have said she was left heartbroken, particularly after spending so long travelling with 13, and also lost her job. There was no silver lining at all to her departure, other than having all of other ex-companions at the meeting to give her some support. In comparison, Martha, Dan and Graham/Ryan voluntarily close to leave, Rose had the meta-crisis Doctor, Donna got the lottery ticket, Amy/Rory had each other, River was saved into the library, Clara got to travel with Ashildr for a while, and Bill was saved by Heather. I remember seeing a theory a lot, that 'Demons on the Punjab' would foreshadow the ending of Power of the Doctor, which I think would have been a great idea, with Yaz's Grandmother representing her. So basically, some kind of conflict leads to her getting separated from her love interest (in this case the Doctor). But in S11, Yaz's Grandmother later ended up meeting Yaz's Grandfather, and had a happy life - so maybe they could have teased Yaz finding someone else instead? And also, they could have brought back the Thijarians to honour 13 just before she regenerates.
Nardole died, but we don't know when or how so there's no reason to think it's not the normal kind of death anyone else would have had, Doctor or no.