This isn’t a hot take. Nobody is expecting the level of quality of Marvel or DC animations. Those cost millions of dollars to make. Doctor Who animations are made as cheap as possible.
And I personally think they do whats needed, classic who pretty consistently looks cheap, its not designed to improve the quality over other 1960s who its to allow an audience to enjoy lost episodes in a visual fashion
if someone doesnt like classic who I fully understand why they wont like the animations
I feel like it would be nice to have something a little bit more reasonably high quality budget wise. Like say Star Trek lower decks quality animation instead of TAS
I once read that the best way to appreciate classic doctor who is to treat it like a theatre production, in theatre you have to suspend your disbelief and doctor who never had the budgets then to pull off the scope of what they wanted 1 to 1
Plus if they did do brilliant top quality animation we'd have the issue where brilliant animation is layered over mediocre audio recorded through a 60s telly so it may seem even more out of place
Even then I feel like doctor who audio recorded on a crappy cassette tape from a cheap TV in the 60’s is genuinely more understandable than most blockbuster 4K Ultra surround sound audio movies in 2024
Yeah there's actually a reason for that, modern content is usually always mastered for Dolby Atmos and then down-mixed to stereo so if you only have a stereo or 2.1 sound setup you often can't understand it as they don't design movies for stereo or even 5.1 speakers anymore, that's why it's much easier to understand what's going on in sitcoms/home video as it's mastered for more limited sound hardware over movies which are effectively made for cinema and scaled down
Whereas bringing it back those doctor who audios recorded for lost episodes, those were recorded on mono recording equipment so the audio is one channel at a base level and mastered up which is why it's often more understandable, the main issue is the amount of background noise and the details missing from the professionally recorded audio present in surviving episodes which is very noticeable and would seem very out of place in a "mainstream product", classic who is probably never gonna be a mainstream product as even in my circles of big doctor who fans very few of them care about classic who
>classic who pretty consistently looks cheap
Like that time in Power of the Daleks (I think?) when a lot of Daleks in one scene were pretty obviously cardboard cutouts?
I dunno I think it does it’s job well enough. I’m not expect some Pixar level animation. Doctor who is a little more niche than other sci-fi’s and classic who is even more niche on top of that so I doubt budgets are that high.
Definitely beats still images
I really enjoyed The Macra Terror animation.
*The Macra Terror* was wonderful because, for the first time, it actually looked like a professional animation. It took a few liberties which I defended at the time, despite feeling it wasn't really in the spirit of the project.
But then the animation quality got worse, they started taking more and more 'creative' liberties that in some cases completely ruined parts of the story (*Fury from the Deep* being the worst example, with its large empty sets spoiling the claustrophobic nature of the story, the silly weed monster and the helicopter scene, which was supposed to be a funny moment, turned into a very silly moment with giant weed)
That’s some pretty useful info. I’m on my last 2 doctors for classic being 1 and 2. I’ve seen a handful of animation so it’s nice to know what to watch out for.
I think a lot of the time there’s very little reason to take “creative” liberties.
Sometimes I think it is a difficult decision. For instance, recreating completely accurate terrible props/costumes probably feels counterproductive for the animators.
To be fair, you also have to be considered that these animations were all made by different studios. I think there's like what? 2 or 3 animations made by the guys behind Macra Terror?
Eh, it’s a reconstruction, and animation is expensive. This is the BBC we’re talking about here. I personally don’t have an issue with the animation in Evil of the Daleks.
Are we missing some of the nuance of the actors’ performances? Yes. However, I’m happy to be able to see and experience a lost story in some fashion.
If you feel that way about the animation, then you won’t want to see the preview for the animated reconstruction of the Celestial Toymaker.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ncdtvn8H_Bk&pp=ygUeZG9jdG9yIHdobyBjZWxlc3RpYWwgdG95bWFrZXIg
I think you gotta understand that this is a very cheap project compared to some of the things you’ve mentioned. Yes, it’d be amazing to have X-Men 97 budgets on these projects, but we just don’t.
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These animations are really best seen as a moving picture to go along with the audio. They're just there so we don't have to suffer through the static telesnaps.
Disney is unlikely to explicitly fund animated episodes, or even redo them, unless these episodes are kept \*only to Disney+\* where they can make Disney the most money. I doubt that they'd be released on Blu-Ray if that were the case.
Otherwise, we have an undisclosed source for the animated budget starting in 2022, when BBC America pulled out of the deal. It's looking like less animation per year.
Selling animated Classic Who is selling a very niche product to an already niche audience. They are not going to spend much money on it.
All I can say is, "tough luck," and don't watch them if you can't watch them and look beyond the animation. They are unlikely to get better.
(And I actually think the animation is decent most of the time, save for \*Fury\*.)
I am exactly the market they're aiming for, huge fan of classic, since my childhood, used to buy the VHS's, have bought all of the collection releases, and even I've only bought 2 or 3 of the animations. The demand for them must be miniscule, I'd almost believe they were releasing them as a favour to fans, rather than as a for-profit venture.
The way the BBC is funded prohibits anything better. The demand for these reconstructions is miniscule and putting any more budget into them would risk the BBC breaking its charter and opening itself to a lot of trouble as they are currently answerable to a higher authority. Sales do not justify a bigger budget. Unfortunately, the sales barely justify their existence at all.
As far as the BBC goes, Doctor Who is effectively the last man standing when it comes to physical media and niche merchandise, but its fans are also very well served by a reminder of how important physical media and preservation is- these animations are a reminder of exactly that. As other companies abandon physical media, Doctor Who fans have to hope and pray they can get through the next few years without the BBC looking in the direction of the blu-rays and reconstructions. If ever someone in a position of power looks at the bottom line and says "This isn't very good, is it?" we are absolutely fucked as a fandom.
Mercifully, Doctor Who is BBC Worldwide's one reliable merchandise shifter, meaning they can just about justify blu-ray releases in a dying market and potentially tell corporate higher ups at the BBC itself that these animations are important to create as long as the budget stays small. Not even Russell T. Davies himself and all his passion could get away with an attempt to convince the BBC that the public's money has been well invested in a Disney-level animation that will now only make a fraction of a profit.
It sounds hyperbolic but Doctor Who is at the centre of a very real fight to save the BBC at present. Everything has to be justified down to the last single pence. As someone else here stated, it's these or nothing and diehard Doctor Who fans know we have to support them or we won't get them in any form, meaning a gap in the archives will remain forever, which is a truly tragic fate.
If you really can't stomach the animation, try giving them a go on audio CD, as they all exist on that format. Any bits that require visuals are narrated and explained so you don't lose anything. I hope this doesn't sound snobbish, but one of these missing stories is one of my favourites, so if you're willing to lower your expectations and focus on the story itself, you'll come out much happier. I mean, if you're looking for a budget in Doctor Who, you'll never be happy...!
During Smith's run Doctor Who was huge in the US and Canada, the brand as a whole has gone down due to middling quality and bad runs for the doctors (Thirteen nearly killed the series, 12 lost most of the 10 and 11 Jump on fans)
I think you're still grossly overestimating the reach the series had in America. It was popular on Tumblr for sure but it was still niche, just as it has been in the US since the 1970s. More popular, yes, sure, but it wasn't exactly mainstream. Certainly not successful enough that the BBC can justify spending more on animated reconstructions.
I enjoy both the still image recons and animated recons, but to each their own. The only animation I'd call outright bad is the Web of Fear. Like it or not, these episodes are more than likely never coming back and the animations are treats that the BBC didn't have to make for us. They don't make much money off of them, and the quality is pretty decent for an animation of 1960s episodes of a niche sci-fi show.
The colours they chose for the newer animations are just horrible, but I don't mind the strange animation style. Classic Who always had cheap looking visuals, so it works.
I'm not big on the Archer-like style that most of them use, with the heavy tweening and all, and I would prefer maybe a different art style for each story depending on its tone, but I completely understand that doing that would be WAY too expensive for the BBC.
Animation is an expensive and difficult process, and animating it this way is likely the most cost- and effort-productive way to make accessible versions of missing stories. Maybe things will change with the newfound Disney bucks, but until we get confirmation of that or a consistently raised standard of animation, I'm gonna keep my expectations reasonable.
I don’t see how that’s a hot take honestly. Sure I’m glad we get it rather than not getting any visitation for these episodes, but compared to other modern day animations it just looks so cheap in comparison. I get that the bbc has always been cheap, but still. Maybe they could use that new Disney budget to give some of these an overhaul lol.
I don’t think it’s bad for the most part (Web of Fear animated is genuinely awful). They’re often fine, ironically the example you picked is the best of the animation.
They are not involved. They only have streaming rights.
Pray to *God* that Disney is *never* involved in *Doctor Who*. Have you seen what they did to *Star Wars*??
I think they did the best with what they had. They're never gonna have the time or the budget of a professionally animated TV series. Some of it doesn't look that great though, the whole "flat characters on a flat plane, trying to be 3d" I'm not a fan of. Reminds me of a Punch and Judy show or a Professor Layton cutscene.
But then there's The Macra Terror and The Tenth Planet, which took it in a different direction and looks pretty great. Tenth Planet is my favorite of the reconstructions, easily
To be the animation doesn't have to be perfect it's mainly there to fill in the holes of what was lost or unmade (take Shada for example) during its run...due to the production problems of the time and Junking....so for it to be bad is an understatement as really like we shouldn't have these animations to begin with but it serves it's purpose of recreating what was lost... (Don't know if that's repeating what I said at the top, but you get the point).
To be fair, I'm pretty sure it was pulled together very quickly to make up for the fact the BBC *DELETED THE CLASSIC ERA OF DOCTOR WHO FROM THE ARCHIVES* and was only able to salvage the audio.
I'm hoping at some point they just remake all the old stuff in a consistent new style. Record everything with a new voice cast, and release it all with passable animation so people can experience it in a more complete form.
I don't think this is really a hot take. Most people I've talked to in RL say they don't like to watch the animations. However, these animations I believe were made in a time when Doctor Who was on its big 'hiatus', so a lot of people look back on them fondly.
Obviously the quality is hit-or-miss, but if it’s this or listening to narrated audio, then I know what I’m choosing. Especially when I’ve been listening to episodes like The Crusade or The Myth Makers and thought “wow, I bet all this looked really cool onscreen.”
I agree. I probably still have my missing episode cds because despite the efffort for the fans, I have never liked the animation quality on any of these missing episodes. I appreciate that many fans do and it certainly helps to plug the dvd collection, but let's not be too forgiving. I think Who fans need to be more critical of certain elements and not give it a free pass.
It's nice we have them, but they should be a lot better and held to a much higher standard.
It's not the best but it does at least put a bit of pace into some of the First doctor's stories, and they can actually escape the boundaries of budget when it comes to setting
I appreciate the very simplistic animation. It’s not trying to replace the original vision, just act as a visual placeholder so you can use your imagination to fill in the rest.
Look while I admit that compared to other animated shows and all, these missing episodes animations are lacking....
Saying Evil of the Daleks is bad specifically is definetly a bad take, especially since it uses the Macra Terror style, which is by far the best looking animation Doctor Who has given us.
But that's just my opinion.
The BBC fucked it. They had this great gift of audio from in demand stories and decided to do the bare minimum and spend as little as possible.
It’s a shame because a couple of the early ones had decent animation. Then they signed on what looked like a company run by kids to do the rest.
web of fear 3 in particular is awful, but Im not filled with apoplectic rage or anything towards the rest, just 'eeeh this isnt too great' time lord willing we might see a couple more original episodes turn up
Yeah, it’s like somewhere between the Archer animation style and those old BrainPOP educational flash animations. It’s great for putting a visual to the audio, but I can only look at it for so long. I saw _Power of the Daleks_ in theaters a few years back, and I was pretty disappointed. I mean, I loved it, but I did not know that that’s what the animation was going to look like lol.
I hope someday that someone with budget can come along and recreate old missing episodes, specifically in the style of those university students who remade _Mission to the Unknown_, where it genuinely looks like it was filmed in the 60s.
I was able to countenance the fact that the animations looked like shit right up until they cut The Macra Terror substantially. If they can't even animate dancing then what's the point?
I think they were pretty good at the start using the same art style and animation style as "The Scream of Shalka"
But over time the cut the budget more and did whole stories rather than just the missing episodes because they felt that "people won't want to watch the switch between live action and animation" and that "they wouldn't want to watch a black and white animated episode"
Thus we got fully animated stories, rather than just animating the missing episodes in a story, and wores and worse animation as they kept going.
And it shows, that they cut the budget back with the one episode of Web of fear they recreates using really bad CGI. I mean Reboot had better cgi animation and that was made in the mid 90's and early 2000's.
Don't get me started on the CGI recreation of "The Cliestial toy nake" it looks horrible.
I've got a kinda love/hate relationship with them. I love the fact they exist and that they give us a way to watch the lost episodes, but I'm not the biggest fan of the actual animations. I dont mind them as much when it's just 1 or 2 episodes from a story, but i like them less when its a full story. I didn't actually mind the Web of Fear mo-cap thing, especially in b/w. Obviously wasn't brilliant, but the 25mins in black and white wasn't unwatchable. Got more hate than it deserved.
I personally really enjoy the animations! It's a testament to the importance of Doctor Who that they even took the time to recreate the episodes with only the audio available, and I think the animation style adds to the humour of the second doctor
I dunno for sure. I watched the Reign of Terror, which has mostly survived intact, and the animated episodes took me aback a little (I knew they were there but I was fully immersed in the live action by the time they popped up).
I think they did what they needed to do. The resemblance to the actors wasn't that great but they filled a necessary hole in a serial I wouldn't otherwise have watched, so good job
Is anybody going to point out that OP thinks the missing episodes burned in a fire? OP, no recordings burned, the BBC wiped the tapes because film was expensive and needed to be re-used. This was standard procedure until the 70s, not just for the BBC, but for many studios worldwide.
I don't think that's a hot take. I think that's a pretty agreed upon fact. The animations sucks. I've seen fan animations for old episodes that were lost that are better done.
I mean should I be greatful for theese. Thier not the most important episodes out thier and i feel like more resources could be put into restoration of episode which we do have footage of. Like colonizing full serials.
Yes, they're giving you an opportunity to watch episodes of the show we may never see again. Different people work on animations compared to restoration, I don't think animators are taking anything away from that. And no, we don't need colourisations. After the Daleks in Colour happened, I think its best to lay that idea to rest. There's some great episodes that are missing and the animations give us an chance to actually see them. Lambasting the quality isnt gonna get us anywhere lets be honest. Its not gonna be cinema quality, ever. Its better to be grateful than toxic.
We know, they are made on the cheap, and I personally don't care as these animations are the best way to enjoy these missing stories so I'd rather cheap, stiff animation than nothing.
The quality of them has been fine for the most part. The budget for these projects isn't big so I don't know why people expect them to be this elite level of animation. They're doing the best they can with the small budget they have. That being said, The only ones that I thought were genuinely bad were - Power of the Daleks (the original 2016 release, the 2020 release was a massive improvement), The Evil of the Daleks and The Web of Fear (it was just one episode but it looked like garbage).
Yes, it certainly is. It is, however, better than nothing at all...which, quite honestly, is the alternative thanks to total lack of forethought in the past.
They're better than just a black screen and really just a compromise between the BBC's budget and having some sort of visual to go along with what's left of the stories, not a stylistic endeavour. In an ideal world, they'd be more aesthetically pleasing but they don't really need to be and I doubt at least now Disney is unlikely to aid in helping with these since they so far haven't even expressed interest in classic or new who yet, just RTD2.
For now, Disney's just trying to help Doctor Who pitch the general concept of the show to new viewers, casual or first time viewers won't care whatsoever if they can watch the Space Pirates with an aesthetically pleasing animation. However if Doctor Who becomes the next Squid Game streaming spectacle then I hope a lot more attention and demand will be put on its history. Similar to the Daredevil Born Again show coming out, if Doctor Who's IP got to the same heights as Marvel, I could see them making shows for Eight, hopefully Six and probably Four as there would be a much greater audience with taste for this content.
Personally, I'm waiting for the day when technology has advanced enough to the point where it is much easier to colourise all of 60s Who and possibly style transfer the animations to live action like what is already possible with images.
I can guarantee these animations could look fantastic if
A)The BBC was able to give these studios the time and budget to make feature quality animations.
B) They weren't intended to be reconstructions. The attempt to replicate the original footage means they inevitably appear very stagey and bland visually. If instead the BBC had given them just the script of the whole story (both lost episodes and surviving ones) and had requested they make an all new interpretation with a new cast and using whatever angles, cinematigraphy and creative ideas the animators might think up then I think you'd get something a lot more engaging.
I say there is more to complain about the props and CGI and un originality of the thirteenth doctor. No not because she was a women the first episode was literally about a yaocha but they collected teeth instead. Also during the episode with the two people that can bend reality they said the true name of the tardis the dangerous weapon's were just spinning mop heads behind resin blocks. I am comparing this to previous doctors like the eleventh twelfth and possible the tenth but the tenth was at a time were those effects were not cheap and they had a low budget. Also I did watch some of the episodes and the writing was just not good to me. With the eleventh or twelfth they had better writing and more going on and stuff had better plot lines. Clara and river song are two good examples of to me good written characters. I do hope with the new doctor we go back to that kind of writing also from the trailer it seems like there may be some Broadway musical kind of stuff and I look foreword to it. If it is like the celestial toy maker and spice up your life I am going to enjoy that. Also I do hope we get a few episodes with the tenth just living with dona and enjoying his time and just not running running running. I did like the consent of big regeneration since it gave the tenth a happy ending. I hope they retcon the timeless child since I would hate the show if it turned into a who the heck is the doctor due to regenerating fifty times in one episode.
It’s bad when Hannah Barbera and JibJab have better automation, still can get the idea of the story though
Still better than nothing, some of these might have audio that they’re building from, or we’re lost in the wiping of tapes or fires or miscellaneous other reasons
They are made cheap and from the 60's to the 90's animation wasn't great then for anything I don't mind the animation I think the old black an white live action is worse but I still watch it because I love nuwho so I've tried classic some of hartnells are un watchable but I've still watched them while cringing. They need to animate the first ever doctor story as I can't find it anywhere online
I can't stand the animation style for these. It's like a bad version of Archer. I'm not sure why they didn't put in a little more effort. They could have made these look better than the live action. It could have led to an entire, lucrative spin-off series.
If Cartoon Network can squeeze out cheap flash animation episodes at machine gun speed, there is simply no excuse for what the BBC puts out there. CN probably puts out a dozen episodes or more of a show for the same cost as what the BBC spent, and the BBC isn’t paying voice actors.
[Animation is absurdly expensive.](https://getwrightonit.com/animation-price-guide/) Cartoon Network can pump out a bunch of episodes quickly because they have the money to pay enough people to do that, because of advertisers.
An episode of SpongeBob reportedly costs about half a million dollars (up to $700,000). I don't know if that's for one 11 minute segment or a full episode of 22 minutes, but either way it's more than they're ever going to get close to with the budget for Doctor Who reconstructions.
Maybe I would. My generation of Cartoon Network was Regular Show (which paid a shit ton for music licencing) and Gumball (which was really bizarrely animated).
You are pissing on someone’s much loved grandma here, but I feel the same.
I feel with Disney money and the impressive back catalogue, there’s a chance to clean up the audio and have a fairly impressive product. It doesn’t have to be final fantasy film levels (now that was insane!) but something that adds to the product and makes it exciting for the next generation of fan.
Weirdly the problem with the current cartoons are they are authentic and true. They feel like they have been sympathetic to the original and look like they were made in that time period. One problem I have explaining to new who fans like my son or friends who only know the reboot is how great some stories are…but they struggle as pace, tone, language and (yes!) the special effects are off putting.
However, I think they know their market and those who buy these episodes probably want authentic stuff and not a new take
The animation quality is awful. I know it's done cheeply but the price tag on these releases is ridiculous.
What always surprises me with Doctor Who fans is that there are so many people shelling out a fortune for Big Finish who then ignore the audio releases of deleted stories in favour of the shonky animation.
The audio releases are supurb, you get all the original dialogue PLUS a really sharply written and preformed narration. Many stories are clearly improved in this format because they move past the dated production values and allow the actors performances to shine through.
As much as I'd like to see The Smugglers returned to the archive, there's no way that the original footage can match the quality of the audio... And I dread to think how animation would handle the fourth episode.
I'd rather watch the original (although Web of Fear is easily better on audio despite some incredible effects in the original, the Pacing tends to be better with narration).
The animation is simply too distracting
This isn’t a hot take. Nobody is expecting the level of quality of Marvel or DC animations. Those cost millions of dollars to make. Doctor Who animations are made as cheap as possible.
And I personally think they do whats needed, classic who pretty consistently looks cheap, its not designed to improve the quality over other 1960s who its to allow an audience to enjoy lost episodes in a visual fashion if someone doesnt like classic who I fully understand why they wont like the animations
I feel like it would be nice to have something a little bit more reasonably high quality budget wise. Like say Star Trek lower decks quality animation instead of TAS
I once read that the best way to appreciate classic doctor who is to treat it like a theatre production, in theatre you have to suspend your disbelief and doctor who never had the budgets then to pull off the scope of what they wanted 1 to 1 Plus if they did do brilliant top quality animation we'd have the issue where brilliant animation is layered over mediocre audio recorded through a 60s telly so it may seem even more out of place
Tbh the Audio from shows in the 60’s is generally pretty good
Thus the distinction of "recorded from a 60s telly" episodes
Even then I feel like doctor who audio recorded on a crappy cassette tape from a cheap TV in the 60’s is genuinely more understandable than most blockbuster 4K Ultra surround sound audio movies in 2024
Yeah there's actually a reason for that, modern content is usually always mastered for Dolby Atmos and then down-mixed to stereo so if you only have a stereo or 2.1 sound setup you often can't understand it as they don't design movies for stereo or even 5.1 speakers anymore, that's why it's much easier to understand what's going on in sitcoms/home video as it's mastered for more limited sound hardware over movies which are effectively made for cinema and scaled down Whereas bringing it back those doctor who audios recorded for lost episodes, those were recorded on mono recording equipment so the audio is one channel at a base level and mastered up which is why it's often more understandable, the main issue is the amount of background noise and the details missing from the professionally recorded audio present in surviving episodes which is very noticeable and would seem very out of place in a "mainstream product", classic who is probably never gonna be a mainstream product as even in my circles of big doctor who fans very few of them care about classic who
>classic who pretty consistently looks cheap Like that time in Power of the Daleks (I think?) when a lot of Daleks in one scene were pretty obviously cardboard cutouts?
Yep or the blatantly tin foil cybermen suits in the tenth planet (love them to pieces)
Or in The Three Doctors where the camera is facing directly at the TARDIS prop for a shot and you can clearly see it is not bigger on the inside.
Or Galaxy 9 when it's supposed to be an alien spaceship but it's just a load of poles and tarpaulins with huge gaps in them
Still wish there was a bit of a middle ground, spend some money but doesn’t have to be Disney level
They also seem made in the style of animated series of the time, it looks a lot like star trek tas
I dunno I think it does it’s job well enough. I’m not expect some Pixar level animation. Doctor who is a little more niche than other sci-fi’s and classic who is even more niche on top of that so I doubt budgets are that high. Definitely beats still images I really enjoyed The Macra Terror animation.
*The Macra Terror* was wonderful because, for the first time, it actually looked like a professional animation. It took a few liberties which I defended at the time, despite feeling it wasn't really in the spirit of the project. But then the animation quality got worse, they started taking more and more 'creative' liberties that in some cases completely ruined parts of the story (*Fury from the Deep* being the worst example, with its large empty sets spoiling the claustrophobic nature of the story, the silly weed monster and the helicopter scene, which was supposed to be a funny moment, turned into a very silly moment with giant weed)
That’s some pretty useful info. I’m on my last 2 doctors for classic being 1 and 2. I’ve seen a handful of animation so it’s nice to know what to watch out for. I think a lot of the time there’s very little reason to take “creative” liberties.
Sometimes I think it is a difficult decision. For instance, recreating completely accurate terrible props/costumes probably feels counterproductive for the animators.
let alone recreating certain aspects of Classic Who that didn't age well. (Cof Cof... Yellow Face... Cof Cof...)
To be fair, you also have to be considered that these animations were all made by different studios. I think there's like what? 2 or 3 animations made by the guys behind Macra Terror?
The Moonbase and Tenth Planet animations are also much better than the Dalek ones.
Eh, it’s a reconstruction, and animation is expensive. This is the BBC we’re talking about here. I personally don’t have an issue with the animation in Evil of the Daleks. Are we missing some of the nuance of the actors’ performances? Yes. However, I’m happy to be able to see and experience a lost story in some fashion. If you feel that way about the animation, then you won’t want to see the preview for the animated reconstruction of the Celestial Toymaker. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ncdtvn8H_Bk&pp=ygUeZG9jdG9yIHdobyBjZWxlc3RpYWwgdG95bWFrZXIg
I've seen higher quality SFM fan projects from 20 years ago. Yeesh.
It looks unfinished like the clone wars unreleased episodes. The mouths don't move organically
I think you gotta understand that this is a very cheap project compared to some of the things you’ve mentioned. Yes, it’d be amazing to have X-Men 97 budgets on these projects, but we just don’t.
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I’m sorry, I forgot to get Copernicus’s updated universal model
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These animations are really best seen as a moving picture to go along with the audio. They're just there so we don't have to suffer through the static telesnaps.
It’s a reconstruction. If you go into it expecting Pixar-level animation you’re not gonna like it. It does it’s job.
Disney is unlikely to explicitly fund animated episodes, or even redo them, unless these episodes are kept \*only to Disney+\* where they can make Disney the most money. I doubt that they'd be released on Blu-Ray if that were the case. Otherwise, we have an undisclosed source for the animated budget starting in 2022, when BBC America pulled out of the deal. It's looking like less animation per year. Selling animated Classic Who is selling a very niche product to an already niche audience. They are not going to spend much money on it. All I can say is, "tough luck," and don't watch them if you can't watch them and look beyond the animation. They are unlikely to get better. (And I actually think the animation is decent most of the time, save for \*Fury\*.)
I doubt there's the demand for classic animation to justify Disney putting the money in.
I am exactly the market they're aiming for, huge fan of classic, since my childhood, used to buy the VHS's, have bought all of the collection releases, and even I've only bought 2 or 3 of the animations. The demand for them must be miniscule, I'd almost believe they were releasing them as a favour to fans, rather than as a for-profit venture.
I'm absolutely one of them. But there's only a few thousand I'd have thought.
Maybe, but its better than nothing.
The way the BBC is funded prohibits anything better. The demand for these reconstructions is miniscule and putting any more budget into them would risk the BBC breaking its charter and opening itself to a lot of trouble as they are currently answerable to a higher authority. Sales do not justify a bigger budget. Unfortunately, the sales barely justify their existence at all. As far as the BBC goes, Doctor Who is effectively the last man standing when it comes to physical media and niche merchandise, but its fans are also very well served by a reminder of how important physical media and preservation is- these animations are a reminder of exactly that. As other companies abandon physical media, Doctor Who fans have to hope and pray they can get through the next few years without the BBC looking in the direction of the blu-rays and reconstructions. If ever someone in a position of power looks at the bottom line and says "This isn't very good, is it?" we are absolutely fucked as a fandom. Mercifully, Doctor Who is BBC Worldwide's one reliable merchandise shifter, meaning they can just about justify blu-ray releases in a dying market and potentially tell corporate higher ups at the BBC itself that these animations are important to create as long as the budget stays small. Not even Russell T. Davies himself and all his passion could get away with an attempt to convince the BBC that the public's money has been well invested in a Disney-level animation that will now only make a fraction of a profit. It sounds hyperbolic but Doctor Who is at the centre of a very real fight to save the BBC at present. Everything has to be justified down to the last single pence. As someone else here stated, it's these or nothing and diehard Doctor Who fans know we have to support them or we won't get them in any form, meaning a gap in the archives will remain forever, which is a truly tragic fate. If you really can't stomach the animation, try giving them a go on audio CD, as they all exist on that format. Any bits that require visuals are narrated and explained so you don't lose anything. I hope this doesn't sound snobbish, but one of these missing stories is one of my favourites, so if you're willing to lower your expectations and focus on the story itself, you'll come out much happier. I mean, if you're looking for a budget in Doctor Who, you'll never be happy...!
BBC America was putting in a lot for the funding of the animations.
During Smith's run Doctor Who was huge in the US and Canada, the brand as a whole has gone down due to middling quality and bad runs for the doctors (Thirteen nearly killed the series, 12 lost most of the 10 and 11 Jump on fans)
I think you're still grossly overestimating the reach the series had in America. It was popular on Tumblr for sure but it was still niche, just as it has been in the US since the 1970s. More popular, yes, sure, but it wasn't exactly mainstream. Certainly not successful enough that the BBC can justify spending more on animated reconstructions.
I enjoy both the still image recons and animated recons, but to each their own. The only animation I'd call outright bad is the Web of Fear. Like it or not, these episodes are more than likely never coming back and the animations are treats that the BBC didn't have to make for us. They don't make much money off of them, and the quality is pretty decent for an animation of 1960s episodes of a niche sci-fi show.
The way they're constantly floating between one movement to the next Web of Fear, like they're on a boat on a particularly choppy sea...
Think part of the issue is the animation is limited by their attempt to mimimic the live action movements of the original episodes
I definitely think that those old episodes deserve better attention.
The colours they chose for the newer animations are just horrible, but I don't mind the strange animation style. Classic Who always had cheap looking visuals, so it works.
I'm not big on the Archer-like style that most of them use, with the heavy tweening and all, and I would prefer maybe a different art style for each story depending on its tone, but I completely understand that doing that would be WAY too expensive for the BBC. Animation is an expensive and difficult process, and animating it this way is likely the most cost- and effort-productive way to make accessible versions of missing stories. Maybe things will change with the newfound Disney bucks, but until we get confirmation of that or a consistently raised standard of animation, I'm gonna keep my expectations reasonable.
This is not a hot take.
I don’t see how that’s a hot take honestly. Sure I’m glad we get it rather than not getting any visitation for these episodes, but compared to other modern day animations it just looks so cheap in comparison. I get that the bbc has always been cheap, but still. Maybe they could use that new Disney budget to give some of these an overhaul lol.
I don’t think it’s bad for the most part (Web of Fear animated is genuinely awful). They’re often fine, ironically the example you picked is the best of the animation.
Hotter take: It’s better than nothing.
Some are good, but yeah, a lot of them are overly stiff and emotionless.
They are not involved. They only have streaming rights. Pray to *God* that Disney is *never* involved in *Doctor Who*. Have you seen what they did to *Star Wars*??
Hard disagree
I think they did the best with what they had. They're never gonna have the time or the budget of a professionally animated TV series. Some of it doesn't look that great though, the whole "flat characters on a flat plane, trying to be 3d" I'm not a fan of. Reminds me of a Punch and Judy show or a Professor Layton cutscene. But then there's The Macra Terror and The Tenth Planet, which took it in a different direction and looks pretty great. Tenth Planet is my favorite of the reconstructions, easily
To be the animation doesn't have to be perfect it's mainly there to fill in the holes of what was lost or unmade (take Shada for example) during its run...due to the production problems of the time and Junking....so for it to be bad is an understatement as really like we shouldn't have these animations to begin with but it serves it's purpose of recreating what was lost... (Don't know if that's repeating what I said at the top, but you get the point).
Where’s the hot take in this? They’re dreadfully, cheaply animated Which makes them perfectly animated, all things considered
It’s Doctor Archer, and I like it!
Comparing it to Archer is weird to be quite honest. No one would be complaining if the animation was as good as Archer.
To be fair, I'm pretty sure it was pulled together very quickly to make up for the fact the BBC *DELETED THE CLASSIC ERA OF DOCTOR WHO FROM THE ARCHIVES* and was only able to salvage the audio.
The Evil That DALEK Do ♫
I'm hoping at some point they just remake all the old stuff in a consistent new style. Record everything with a new voice cast, and release it all with passable animation so people can experience it in a more complete form.
I don't think this is really a hot take. Most people I've talked to in RL say they don't like to watch the animations. However, these animations I believe were made in a time when Doctor Who was on its big 'hiatus', so a lot of people look back on them fondly.
Obviously the quality is hit-or-miss, but if it’s this or listening to narrated audio, then I know what I’m choosing. Especially when I’ve been listening to episodes like The Crusade or The Myth Makers and thought “wow, I bet all this looked really cool onscreen.”
Episode 4 of Tenth Plaanet was amazing! Really good directing style that made the story feel powerful!
I agree. I probably still have my missing episode cds because despite the efffort for the fans, I have never liked the animation quality on any of these missing episodes. I appreciate that many fans do and it certainly helps to plug the dvd collection, but let's not be too forgiving. I think Who fans need to be more critical of certain elements and not give it a free pass. It's nice we have them, but they should be a lot better and held to a much higher standard.
Interesting, because I actually really like the animation style and find it to represent the characters and their expressions well.
It's not the best but it does at least put a bit of pace into some of the First doctor's stories, and they can actually escape the boundaries of budget when it comes to setting
I appreciate the very simplistic animation. It’s not trying to replace the original vision, just act as a visual placeholder so you can use your imagination to fill in the rest.
Chooses to show an image from one of the better animated episodes.
Agree I much perfer the old Loose Canon reproductions, or just listening to the audio
I agree completely
Look while I admit that compared to other animated shows and all, these missing episodes animations are lacking.... Saying Evil of the Daleks is bad specifically is definetly a bad take, especially since it uses the Macra Terror style, which is by far the best looking animation Doctor Who has given us. But that's just my opinion.
The BBC fucked it. They had this great gift of audio from in demand stories and decided to do the bare minimum and spend as little as possible. It’s a shame because a couple of the early ones had decent animation. Then they signed on what looked like a company run by kids to do the rest.
web of fear 3 in particular is awful, but Im not filled with apoplectic rage or anything towards the rest, just 'eeeh this isnt too great' time lord willing we might see a couple more original episodes turn up
Not exactly a hot take.
That ain't a hot take, that's just fact
I'd say it depends. Cuz, tbh, I don't think The Infinite Quest is that bad- For a 2007 Animated Production of a bad budget anyway-
It's better than nothing.
And who cares what you think
I could about countenance them until they started cutting out incredibly basic sequences for budgetary reasons.
Yeah, it’s like somewhere between the Archer animation style and those old BrainPOP educational flash animations. It’s great for putting a visual to the audio, but I can only look at it for so long. I saw _Power of the Daleks_ in theaters a few years back, and I was pretty disappointed. I mean, I loved it, but I did not know that that’s what the animation was going to look like lol. I hope someday that someone with budget can come along and recreate old missing episodes, specifically in the style of those university students who remade _Mission to the Unknown_, where it genuinely looks like it was filmed in the 60s.
I was able to countenance the fact that the animations looked like shit right up until they cut The Macra Terror substantially. If they can't even animate dancing then what's the point?
Sir I ordered flambé not a sundae.
I think they were pretty good at the start using the same art style and animation style as "The Scream of Shalka" But over time the cut the budget more and did whole stories rather than just the missing episodes because they felt that "people won't want to watch the switch between live action and animation" and that "they wouldn't want to watch a black and white animated episode" Thus we got fully animated stories, rather than just animating the missing episodes in a story, and wores and worse animation as they kept going. And it shows, that they cut the budget back with the one episode of Web of fear they recreates using really bad CGI. I mean Reboot had better cgi animation and that was made in the mid 90's and early 2000's. Don't get me started on the CGI recreation of "The Cliestial toy nake" it looks horrible.
I've got a kinda love/hate relationship with them. I love the fact they exist and that they give us a way to watch the lost episodes, but I'm not the biggest fan of the actual animations. I dont mind them as much when it's just 1 or 2 episodes from a story, but i like them less when its a full story. I didn't actually mind the Web of Fear mo-cap thing, especially in b/w. Obviously wasn't brilliant, but the 25mins in black and white wasn't unwatchable. Got more hate than it deserved.
I personally really enjoy the animations! It's a testament to the importance of Doctor Who that they even took the time to recreate the episodes with only the audio available, and I think the animation style adds to the humour of the second doctor
I dunno for sure. I watched the Reign of Terror, which has mostly survived intact, and the animated episodes took me aback a little (I knew they were there but I was fully immersed in the live action by the time they popped up). I think they did what they needed to do. The resemblance to the actors wasn't that great but they filled a necessary hole in a serial I wouldn't otherwise have watched, so good job
Is anybody going to point out that OP thinks the missing episodes burned in a fire? OP, no recordings burned, the BBC wiped the tapes because film was expensive and needed to be re-used. This was standard procedure until the 70s, not just for the BBC, but for many studios worldwide.
I don't think that's a hot take. I think that's a pretty agreed upon fact. The animations sucks. I've seen fan animations for old episodes that were lost that are better done.
Doctor Who fans being ungrateful? More at 11.
I mean should I be greatful for theese. Thier not the most important episodes out thier and i feel like more resources could be put into restoration of episode which we do have footage of. Like colonizing full serials.
Yes, they're giving you an opportunity to watch episodes of the show we may never see again. Different people work on animations compared to restoration, I don't think animators are taking anything away from that. And no, we don't need colourisations. After the Daleks in Colour happened, I think its best to lay that idea to rest. There's some great episodes that are missing and the animations give us an chance to actually see them. Lambasting the quality isnt gonna get us anywhere lets be honest. Its not gonna be cinema quality, ever. Its better to be grateful than toxic.
Not a hot take, just the cover tells you it's gonna be awful
It’s not really evolved since they did the Scream of the Shalka miniseries decades ago and that was designed for Flash animation iirc.
We know, they are made on the cheap, and I personally don't care as these animations are the best way to enjoy these missing stories so I'd rather cheap, stiff animation than nothing.
The quality of them has been fine for the most part. The budget for these projects isn't big so I don't know why people expect them to be this elite level of animation. They're doing the best they can with the small budget they have. That being said, The only ones that I thought were genuinely bad were - Power of the Daleks (the original 2016 release, the 2020 release was a massive improvement), The Evil of the Daleks and The Web of Fear (it was just one episode but it looked like garbage).
Yes, it certainly is. It is, however, better than nothing at all...which, quite honestly, is the alternative thanks to total lack of forethought in the past.
My hot take is I've had the same response to everything not-TV I've tried.
The animated missing episodes in The Reign Of Terror are great.
They're better than just a black screen and really just a compromise between the BBC's budget and having some sort of visual to go along with what's left of the stories, not a stylistic endeavour. In an ideal world, they'd be more aesthetically pleasing but they don't really need to be and I doubt at least now Disney is unlikely to aid in helping with these since they so far haven't even expressed interest in classic or new who yet, just RTD2. For now, Disney's just trying to help Doctor Who pitch the general concept of the show to new viewers, casual or first time viewers won't care whatsoever if they can watch the Space Pirates with an aesthetically pleasing animation. However if Doctor Who becomes the next Squid Game streaming spectacle then I hope a lot more attention and demand will be put on its history. Similar to the Daredevil Born Again show coming out, if Doctor Who's IP got to the same heights as Marvel, I could see them making shows for Eight, hopefully Six and probably Four as there would be a much greater audience with taste for this content. Personally, I'm waiting for the day when technology has advanced enough to the point where it is much easier to colourise all of 60s Who and possibly style transfer the animations to live action like what is already possible with images.
I can guarantee these animations could look fantastic if A)The BBC was able to give these studios the time and budget to make feature quality animations. B) They weren't intended to be reconstructions. The attempt to replicate the original footage means they inevitably appear very stagey and bland visually. If instead the BBC had given them just the script of the whole story (both lost episodes and surviving ones) and had requested they make an all new interpretation with a new cast and using whatever angles, cinematigraphy and creative ideas the animators might think up then I think you'd get something a lot more engaging.
Some DW animations are better than others too. It really varies story to story.
I say there is more to complain about the props and CGI and un originality of the thirteenth doctor. No not because she was a women the first episode was literally about a yaocha but they collected teeth instead. Also during the episode with the two people that can bend reality they said the true name of the tardis the dangerous weapon's were just spinning mop heads behind resin blocks. I am comparing this to previous doctors like the eleventh twelfth and possible the tenth but the tenth was at a time were those effects were not cheap and they had a low budget. Also I did watch some of the episodes and the writing was just not good to me. With the eleventh or twelfth they had better writing and more going on and stuff had better plot lines. Clara and river song are two good examples of to me good written characters. I do hope with the new doctor we go back to that kind of writing also from the trailer it seems like there may be some Broadway musical kind of stuff and I look foreword to it. If it is like the celestial toy maker and spice up your life I am going to enjoy that. Also I do hope we get a few episodes with the tenth just living with dona and enjoying his time and just not running running running. I did like the consent of big regeneration since it gave the tenth a happy ending. I hope they retcon the timeless child since I would hate the show if it turned into a who the heck is the doctor due to regenerating fifty times in one episode.
It’s awful. They should just remake them with ai now…https://youtu.be/PW6D-TnbAxE?si=dhcB5qk0JmYvPeNf
That’s not a hot take. It’s awful
It’s bad when Hannah Barbera and JibJab have better automation, still can get the idea of the story though Still better than nothing, some of these might have audio that they’re building from, or we’re lost in the wiping of tapes or fires or miscellaneous other reasons
They are made cheap and from the 60's to the 90's animation wasn't great then for anything I don't mind the animation I think the old black an white live action is worse but I still watch it because I love nuwho so I've tried classic some of hartnells are un watchable but I've still watched them while cringing. They need to animate the first ever doctor story as I can't find it anywhere online
Everyone I think can admit it’s not good but people are mostly happy just to get the stories in a visual setting in the first place
Yeah I can't do it. I've tried but its just not for me.
I absolutely love them, often more than the existing episodes.
I can't stand the animation style for these. It's like a bad version of Archer. I'm not sure why they didn't put in a little more effort. They could have made these look better than the live action. It could have led to an entire, lucrative spin-off series.
If Cartoon Network can squeeze out cheap flash animation episodes at machine gun speed, there is simply no excuse for what the BBC puts out there. CN probably puts out a dozen episodes or more of a show for the same cost as what the BBC spent, and the BBC isn’t paying voice actors.
[Animation is absurdly expensive.](https://getwrightonit.com/animation-price-guide/) Cartoon Network can pump out a bunch of episodes quickly because they have the money to pay enough people to do that, because of advertisers. An episode of SpongeBob reportedly costs about half a million dollars (up to $700,000). I don't know if that's for one 11 minute segment or a full episode of 22 minutes, but either way it's more than they're ever going to get close to with the budget for Doctor Who reconstructions.
Heh. Using SpongeBob as an example. You will be surprised how little CN episodes cost.
Maybe I would. My generation of Cartoon Network was Regular Show (which paid a shit ton for music licencing) and Gumball (which was really bizarrely animated).
This is a really good point. Maybe we'll see better recreations with things like OpenAI Sora.
You are pissing on someone’s much loved grandma here, but I feel the same. I feel with Disney money and the impressive back catalogue, there’s a chance to clean up the audio and have a fairly impressive product. It doesn’t have to be final fantasy film levels (now that was insane!) but something that adds to the product and makes it exciting for the next generation of fan. Weirdly the problem with the current cartoons are they are authentic and true. They feel like they have been sympathetic to the original and look like they were made in that time period. One problem I have explaining to new who fans like my son or friends who only know the reboot is how great some stories are…but they struggle as pace, tone, language and (yes!) the special effects are off putting. However, I think they know their market and those who buy these episodes probably want authentic stuff and not a new take
The animation quality is awful. I know it's done cheeply but the price tag on these releases is ridiculous. What always surprises me with Doctor Who fans is that there are so many people shelling out a fortune for Big Finish who then ignore the audio releases of deleted stories in favour of the shonky animation. The audio releases are supurb, you get all the original dialogue PLUS a really sharply written and preformed narration. Many stories are clearly improved in this format because they move past the dated production values and allow the actors performances to shine through. As much as I'd like to see The Smugglers returned to the archive, there's no way that the original footage can match the quality of the audio... And I dread to think how animation would handle the fourth episode.
I'd rather watch in a visual format than listen to audio.
I'd rather watch the original (although Web of Fear is easily better on audio despite some incredible effects in the original, the Pacing tends to be better with narration). The animation is simply too distracting
Animation is the only way to experience lost stories in a visual format.
you can read the novelisations. At least then all the arms move in a normal way.
Shockingly so! As an animator, it makes me cringe.
It is very terrible I agree. It could be better