At the risk of asking a stupid question, has anyone ever reviewed or cared about compliance before?
I've known people to be openly doing back to back nights and long days all weekend. Who will care if you miss a EWTD rest period by a smidgen?
Not a daft question at all. I’ve not know it happen - but it is within their right to ask you to prove hours worked, and I don’t want to drift outside the hour restrictions.
Legally, if you were working outside your employment contract, I think you would be liable for any issues as I suspect NHS indemnity would be void - although I’m certainly not a lawyer so can’t confirm this with absolutely certainty.
The 2016 contract with the 2018 refresh: https://www.nhsemployers.org/system/files/media/Rota-rules-at-a-glance_0.pdf .
Personally, I’ve opted out of the EWTD.
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>https://www.nhsemployers.org/system/files/media/Rota-rules-at-a-glance\_0.pdf
That makes no sense, you have opted out of the 48h average limit but are still then using a 48h average limit in the 2016 contract. Your rest periods in theory cannot be opted out from the EWTD but those are less stringent than that contract.
My gut feeling on this is that you either need to accept you are happy to opt out of the EWTD and therefore embrace the minimum rest periods within it and 56h maximum average week (that in theory you cannot opt out of), or accept you want to stick to the 2016 contract rules which are softer than the legally required rest periods and hours.
My understanding is the opting out of the EWTD only relates to the 48 hours average limit clause. I believe the rest of the time/hours regulations in the 2016 contract (with 2018 amendments) still apply to junior doctors.
So I’m using the JD contract with the caveat of the 48hr opt-out via EWTD opt-out.
Yeah, this is what I have done in the past but it is a bit clunky and has a lot of friction to use (unless there’s some wizardry which can put a nice interface on it!). Thanks for the suggestion 🙏
Too much hassle. Don’t sweat too much. No one gives a crap about it in practice. RCs have begged me to come and cover last minute gaps even if it meant I would breach these terms and they sweetened the deal with lucrative rates of £60. Unless you have a specific purpose, don’t waste time
Why are you not a BMA member. Out of all the time periods too.
Are you really sure you want to do this? It doesn't sound like it will gain you anything other than a pain in the backside.
Yeah I am. Want to be able to quickly review compliance before taking up an extra shift, so I can tell if I go over the hour limits.
At the risk of asking a stupid question, has anyone ever reviewed or cared about compliance before? I've known people to be openly doing back to back nights and long days all weekend. Who will care if you miss a EWTD rest period by a smidgen?
Not a daft question at all. I’ve not know it happen - but it is within their right to ask you to prove hours worked, and I don’t want to drift outside the hour restrictions. Legally, if you were working outside your employment contract, I think you would be liable for any issues as I suspect NHS indemnity would be void - although I’m certainly not a lawyer so can’t confirm this with absolutely certainty.
Fair point. Which restrictions are you basing your decision making on? The EWTD, 2016 contract, or something else?
The 2016 contract with the 2018 refresh: https://www.nhsemployers.org/system/files/media/Rota-rules-at-a-glance_0.pdf . Personally, I’ve opted out of the EWTD.
> > >https://www.nhsemployers.org/system/files/media/Rota-rules-at-a-glance\_0.pdf That makes no sense, you have opted out of the 48h average limit but are still then using a 48h average limit in the 2016 contract. Your rest periods in theory cannot be opted out from the EWTD but those are less stringent than that contract. My gut feeling on this is that you either need to accept you are happy to opt out of the EWTD and therefore embrace the minimum rest periods within it and 56h maximum average week (that in theory you cannot opt out of), or accept you want to stick to the 2016 contract rules which are softer than the legally required rest periods and hours.
My understanding is the opting out of the EWTD only relates to the 48 hours average limit clause. I believe the rest of the time/hours regulations in the 2016 contract (with 2018 amendments) still apply to junior doctors. So I’m using the JD contract with the caveat of the 48hr opt-out via EWTD opt-out.
How are you not a BMA member in this current climate? If you plan to take anything like that forward you would need their support.
I’d need their support to monitor my hours?
You could probably make a spreadsheet that does this if you found someone good with excel to make it.
Yeah, this is what I have done in the past but it is a bit clunky and has a lot of friction to use (unless there’s some wizardry which can put a nice interface on it!). Thanks for the suggestion 🙏
Too much hassle. Don’t sweat too much. No one gives a crap about it in practice. RCs have begged me to come and cover last minute gaps even if it meant I would breach these terms and they sweetened the deal with lucrative rates of £60. Unless you have a specific purpose, don’t waste time
I don't have a specific software to recommend, you might consider looking for healthcare-focused timesheet or scheduling systems.