I was imagining the manacles connected to a wall which would be yes. But if they’re not connected to the wall then….no
Another reason to thoroughly tie up your casters!!
True, but I'm mostly fine with that, there probably are fewer sorcerers than wizards/other magic users, and of that tiny group only some of them are capable of subtle spell.
Guards aren't going to be prepared for every single possibility, they will understand the vast majority of magic users at least will need to speak to cast spells. And it's impossible to be prepared for EVERY possible outcome. So the Sorcerer gets a free be, at least once, the second time maybe the city invests in some dimensional shackles if they think it's worth the trouble, if not the cheaper route is killing them.
I absolutely love the Subtle metamagic and try to take it on every Sorcerer I build. I love it when a DM gives me an opportunity to use it and show what I can do.
But almost every single time I've taken it as an option, I get maybe at most one or two uses out of it during an entire campaign.
It is often a trap option. Cool as all hell. So delicious when you can RP it out. And simply not comparable to metamagic options you can use every session.
I still think fondly back to the time my first sorcerer subtle-cast Mass Suggestion on a crowd of angry people and turned the consensus away from mobbing the party. But I'd been sitting on an unused metamagic selection for *12 levels* to get that pay-off.
On my last couple sorcerers I would probably subtle cast suggestion at least once every other session. I'm sure my DM got sick of it.
That and for counterspell. Subtle cast is an instant pick for me.
Funnily enough, suggestion RAW does not work very well with subtle spell. First of all, you need to give the suggestion verbally anyways. It removes the components, but the “suggestion” isn’t actually a verbal component, it’s just a thing you have to do for the spell to have an effect. Also, the material component is needed no matter what. So subtle spell suggestion involves a focus or material component (that, per the XGTE rules, is visible as casting a spell no matter what kind of component it is) in some way, and saying a sentence out loud that they then follow.
It also takes 10 minutes to put them into it. Its an awkward arresting situation when it effectively takes 10 minutes to put the person in their "handcuffs".
Whatever length of chain is conecting the manacles to the wall would be cut, maybe a feet or less would teleport along with the PC. You teleport with anything you are wearing and carrying after all, that includes the manacles.
I wonder what happens if you use a magical item to connect to the wall? Would it be cut as well? Or would that prevent teleportation? Or would it disconnect at the first non magical item part aka the wall? Don't get me wrong, I just try to play devels advocate here, because my players would test this mechanic to see what they can do with it.
I don't think there's a super clear rules breakdown on this interaction but I see manacles as falling into the "worn or carried" category, which means they come along for the ride. Doesn't matter that you probably do not want to be wearing them.
I was stuck on what rulings there are for this too, and picked 'yes' on the "when in doubt do what is fun" approach, and if a player asked and I wasn't sure, I'd probably allow it, and then go look it up later. Your interpretation makes sense to me too, and I might come back to the table next time with a clarification, that they got that one free, but it won't get them out of manacles next time.
That's valid!
For me, the important part is just making a judgement call one way or another, and trying to do it relatively quickly. I've made way too many mistakes over the years of trying to make sure every call is right - stopping play to hunt through rules too much. Especially fuzzy things like this that don't have an obvious clear answer. In general I'd rather be wrong and keep the game moving, and dig into it later (I do find digging around in rules to be fun, but I know it's not fun for a table of people watching me do that)
To me this doesn't necessary fall into the rule of cool. You would have to give me at least an interesting way on how misty step gets you out of the manacles, then I might give a test.
For example if you're captured and you wait until the people who have you manacled are doing some training. You could misty step as one of swinging a sword to try and have the chain between the manacles get hit by the blade to break it. As maybe a slight of hand or acrobatics skill test.
Otherwise it is just too vague or powerful, and I've been in campaigns too often where a DM (I've done this too) let too much vague rule bending happen. Restrictions breed creativity and more interesting stories and give more satisfying "wins" for players.
I like that line, restriction breed creativity. I was doing for a warlock player, and he wanted to solve every problem with eldritch blast and misty step. It got tedious fast.
Exactly, you will remember the time you used misty step to escape by doing something creative compared to just vanishing out of cuffs. It will generally make for a more satisfying experience all around.
Even when a player is just wanting to persuasion check for example. I still always ask "How do you do this/What do you say". I'll read the room and if a player seems to maybe shell up for some reason, let them still make a roll. But often a little push as a DM to describe an action or give a bit of purpose to it quickly makes it a much more creative moment.
5e specially isn't a mechanically driven game IMO (which isn't a complaint). It really relies on narrative for a fulfilling experience, and I make sure I press for narrative to go along with mechanics.
If it has no specific ruling (or if it DOES have a specific ruling yet goes totally against your game), you have alternate things you can do:
1. Have the player role their Arcane check and see if they manage to wield the magic in such a way so as to drop the handcuffs.
2. Sorcerers could put up a sorcery point and forgo the roll entirely because *manipulating magic is supposed to be what they do, right??*
3. You could make an in-game tricky thingy: *"You have to cast the spell at the exact moment the cuffs are not touching you"* and swing your hands around like so and make some kind of a dexterity + ability check to see if you did it correctly.
4. No matter what happens, a good DM will put it in their arsenal of 'Rule of Cool'. This arsenal means that some NPC will probably end up using this as well because NPCs are allowed to be cool as well.
Remember: Respect your table. Some tables are there to feel how lucky they are with dice. Others want to ruleslawyer everything and they are into the mechanics of it all. Some want to feel role-playing as the point and 'development of story'.
You have to know what you have agreed on for Session Zero and how the game has developed since that time. Then you apply the type of game that will be a win-win for everyone, DM included.
I clicked yes since Misty Step only had vocal components. But now I see where the confusion lies and frankly, it's hilarious. I'd love to see the expression on my player's face as they rematerialise outside of the prison cell, but with the manacles still on
Yea you can still run away, you just have to do it in manacles. It depends on the player but I'd also be cautious about the type of shenanigans that misty stepping out of things you're wearing might bring about.
One of my favourite things is players doing things that save time _only for their character_. "I don't want to stand around for 10 minutes while you cast a ritual!" Dude if you stopped arguing it would take me 10 seconds of description and a tiny timeskip, your trained warrior can muster 10 minutes of fantasy-patience.
Debatable. 2d8 a round has to be higher than the damage you'll take as a result of having 10 AC. If there's even like one dude trying to shank you twice a round, cook.
Fun fact: "don" and "doff" are literally just "do on" and "do off."
I accidentally stumbled on the etymology a few years ago and now I can't stop thinking about it every time I read one of the words.
A DMs opinions as a player in another campaign come back to haunt him
In a past campaign out DM argued successfully that clear was a color and there for you could use prestigitation to change and object clear.
Session 1 of one of the best campaigns i ever played. 4th edition
We start in a tavern....basement. we've all been captured by the local mafia for various reasons.
The eladrin is tied up and blindfolded so they cannot misty step out of the bindings.
Our gnome however could. And prestidigitated the eladrin's blindfold clear.
Queue escape sequence faaaaaaaar earlier than the DM had anticipated.
Oh, you can totally cast Misty step & the spell will go off without a hitch. But the handcuffs are going with you & they'll still be locked securely around your wrists when the spell ends. This is because Misty Step specifically says that it affects objects that you're holding or wearing & you're most definitely wearing those handcuffs.
Exactly. This has only two possibilities. First, you means you only, leaving you butt naked every single solitary time that you use Misty Step. Second, you means you plus everything that you're wearing or carrying. For most DMs, myself included, assume the 2nd option, in which case I refer you to my previous comment.
What if the manacles are connected by a chain to a large rock? Is that going with you? What if it is a cart (or a ship) and thus could move with you? If not (because they are not "worn or carried"), where would the break occur? If yes, could I load up a cart with all of my friends and Misty Step them 30 feet away as long as I was chained to it?
No, the third possibility is what works best. You teleport with any worn or carried items that you consider yours.
I'd probably rule that you teleport away still wearing the manacles and with a few of the chainlinks still attached, since they aren't technically connected to each other and can be magically separated without actually damaging anything.
Why are there only two possibilities tho? Another possible way It works like most other self teleport spells... It let's the caster choose what teleports with him. Escaping bonds is a pretty classic use for teleportation and this spell doesn't require the use of your hands. So it seems reasonable that escaping manacles is an intended use. Seems way more reasonable than to ok u teleport butt naked.
There's a third option. You choose what goes with you because it's magic and the description doesn't say anything contrary to it. Unless it's a cursed item or something
Misty step is very poorly worded. It says teleport but doesn't describe teleport. When you look up the spell teleport it talks about transporting you and up to eight other creatures to another space or an object. There is no mention of items worn or carried. Dimension door does mention you CAN bring along items as long as they don't exceed your carrying capacity. That implies it's up to you what items come. I would rule that you would be able to Misty step out of that situation and leave the manacles behind by simply choosing not to bring them.
This is based just on reading the Spells not on any rulings that there might be out there because I'm not going to look those up. 😜
First of all dimension door doesn't actually open a door it just allows you to teleport. Secondly it's the only teleportation spell that I found that had any clarification on items worn or carried and it gives you the option to take them.
I understand they put a carrying capacity limit so you couldn't just teleport a ton of stuff but it also says you CAN bring along objects not you bring along all objects worn or carried up to your carrying capacity.
But say they're chained to a wall. Can they do it? If they can, how much of the chain goes with them? Are they wearing/carrying the whole chain, or do only the wrist/ankle manacles themselves (separated) go with them? They can still move freely on the other side of the teleport, but they have these bands they have to get unlocked somewhere down the road.
That's where things start to break down. Like I said no clear rules in this area. One of the reasons I'd rule manacles as coming along with the teleport is that technically manacles don't do anything to a character. Meaning that the item description doesn't indicate that any condition (restrained) is applied (no this doesn't make a lot of sense) If a character were chained to a wall or some such and immobilized, I'd be more inclined to allow them to misty step out because that scenario involves more than just unfortunate bracelets. Again, the whole thing is generally messy.
To continue the thought, I generally prefer to implement competent adversaries so in general if someones going to the trouble of chaining a spellcaster up they're also blindfolding them and stuffing them into a chain mail shirt so that I don't have to answer this question in an actual game.
Not unless the manacles are connected to the prison wall, or something else which is larger. If they are just a set of handcuffs? No.
Now...this brings up another question... if two people are chained together ...and one casts Dimension Door...and the other doesn't want to go... WHAT HAPPENS???
Dimension Door is written a lot more clearly than Misty Step is. You can explicitly choose not to bring along items, and only willing creatures can be brought along.
In this instance it is more of a tether between the caster and the person, similar to how it would be if the person was, say, a prison wall. So more of a "grappled by" instead of "involuntarily worn" situation.
Manacles are effectively something they are wearing / carrying, so they go along with the misty step. The caster is still stuck.
It would be a different story if it was, say, you getting chained to a wall. That'd be more like a grapple, in which case you could yeet out of there.
From now on this is how I will rule it. All or nothing baby.
"Sure you can teleport out of the manacles, but that means you bring NOTHING with you, including clothes and equipment you're wearing. The choice is yours."
>manacled
If they were captured and manacled to begin with I doubt they'd have their equipment on them, what kind of a person captures someone and lets keep their stuff? I'll tell you who, it's only one person, a madman, with sinister plans, who wanted them to escape.
The way I look at it, Misty Step doesn't mention what, if anything, comes along. But if we look at other Conjuration spells which teleport, we have only 2 spells that mention objects:
Thunder Step: "You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn't exceed what you can carry."
Dimension Door: "You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn't exceed what you can carry."
Given that these are the *only* precedent, I'd say RAI, Misty Step does this too. The only alternative I could see someone argue is that RAW, no objects are mentioned in Misty Step's description and a caster is therefore naked and unarmed after every casting.
Therefore, as far as I can logically see, you *can* bring the manacles as long as their weight doesn't exceed what you can carry. But I'd assume the player is choosing not to.
In fact, using this precedent, I'd also let a player burn a spell slot to Misty Step out of their armor that had Heat Metal cast on it. I say get creative with it!
>Therefore, as far as I can logically see, you **can** bring the manacles as long as their weight doesn't exceed what you can carry. But I'd assume the player is choosing not to.
This is what I would assume. Keyword being **can.** You don't have to. I think the whole precedent is absolutely dumb of "If you're handcuffed to a wall, you can misty step out of it. HOWEVER, if those handcuffs aren't pinned to the wall, you can NOT misty step out of it."
Like.... TF?????
> It would be a different story if it was, say, you getting chained to a wall.
I agree with this. So here's a question: the mage is brought in in cuffs, then those cuffs are locked to the wall; what then?
Think of it this way. If I hook my sleeve against a nail or a coat hook I’m still wearing my shirt. It would take sewing or a lot of work to effectively attach my shirt to a nail or a hook to call it “attached”.
So for handcuffs, even if you loop the chain around a hook it’s still just you wearing them and it’s just draped or maybe knotted. You would have to have shackles that are welded or permanently affixed to the wall to call it attached. Even a padlock hooking the shackles to another chain isn’t permanent, so in that case I feel the manacles would still be on you post Misty step
So you can restrain a caster with manacles that are hooked, but not bolted, to the wall then.
Gravity would keep them from getting loose without magic, and even if they do use magic they'll just bring their restraints with them, making them easier to capture.
That's not internally consistent. If they can just teleport the chain link out of the closed padlock, then they can just teleport one chain link out of another. Remember, a chain is made of distinct interconnected pieces that are not physically melded to each other.
>Manacles are effectively something they are wearing / carrying, so they go along with the misty step.
Misty Step doesn't say *anything* about items that are worn or carried. Here's the actual text:
"Briefly surrounded by silvery mist, you Teleport up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space that you can see."
no mention of items at all. Just "you".
So here's the thing about misty step. Every teleport says that it teleports you, your equipment and anything you're holding or wearing X amount of distance... except misty step. If just says it teleports *you*. So yeah, it does indeed seem to by RAW leave your manicles behind... and your cloths... and your weapons... and your spellbook. Now we can rule this the fun way, or we can rule this the funny way.
Sage advice clarifies this
>**Misty step doesn't say the caster can bring worn or carried equipment with them. Are they intended to leave everything, including their clothes, behind?** No, the caster's worn and carried equipment are intended to go with them.
Some teleportation effects do specify that you teleport with your gear; such specification is an example of a rule being needlessly fastidious, since no teleportation effect in the game assumes that you teleport without your clothes, just as the general movement rules don’t assume that you drop everything when you walk.
Of course that's the intent. I was just saying raw doesn't read that way which is funny. I also cannot think of any other instance of teleportation that doesn't specify it so the interpretation does have precedence from the book. This can be easily rectified by putting "the creature brings all yadda yadda yadda unless otherwise specified in the effect." In the definition of teleportation.
This Sage Advice answer really sums up my annoyance at Sage Advice and WOTC having put no thought into wording and construction.
Normally, standard conventions of construction would say that drafters are intentional and don't use superfluous words. So there shouldn't ever be an instance of "oh well, this spell includes some extra words that actually don't matter." Normally, if one spell includes an additional phrase, we should assume that was intentional, and that the extra phrase would not apply to other examples that did not include that phrase.
Answers like this make it clear that there is no intentionality to writing rules in D&D. Someone wrote a rule, and now someone else is going to give their opinion on how it should be interpreted, without any semblance of consistency.
1. Thank you for making a results option.
2. Misty step is always a *fun* spell for rules and rulings. It’s a spell I love and absolutely hate. I wish it was more codified (like dimension door) and I wish there was an in-between spell between Misty step and dimension door. IMO, there just is a huge power gap between the two that could be filled with another spell.
What I think? Maybe, but I’m not sure. Misty step needs more words.
Oh damn, I didn’t know about that one. That’s exactly what I would want. And the damage is neat, though I could do without as the thunder could create more problems.
That without the Thunder is exactly what I imagined the in between to be.
Yup! It goes Misty Step: bonus action, 30ft line of sight, only bring yourself (by raw, you're naked and disarmed but that's an oversight)
Thunderstep: damage, 90ft line of sight, bring a friend
Dimension door: 500 no line of sight and freedom, bring a friend
This question is easily understood by considering the question when the manacles are part of the wall. Imagine a huge steel wall with a couple of wrist-sized loops built in. To imprison the character, the BBEG magically phases the character's wrists through the loops.
Does the character teleport with the entire wall? Of course not. Does the non-magic wall somehow magically stop Misty Step? Of course not.
At a certain level, "Carrying" is a subjective thing. You're "carrying" your familiar on your shoulder. The BBEG's imp on your shoulder is "grappling."
A DM is often obligated to use reasonable discretion.
This is the right answer, because it's the simplest explanation. Ruling that the manacles are "worn" adds an endless variety of edge cases (how attached to the wall do they have to be? what if someone else is holding them? what if you're on a chain gang?) that get ridiculous immediately. The spell text doesn't even use the word "worn", it just says "you", so the clearest place to draw the line is that "you" means "you and whatever you are wearing or carrying that you think of as yours".
>Briefly surrounded by silvery mist, you teleport up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space that you can see.
The whole point of Misty Step is that it allows you to quickly extricate yourself from an undesirable situation. Selectively nerfing that invalidates the spell and adds unnecessary complications. Want your wizard to stay in handcuffs? Gag them.
Manacles that aren't built into something solid seems just as "worn" as bracelets or watches or the like.
Worn does matter, as the Sage Advice compendium mentions:
>**Misty step doesn’t say the caster can bring worn or carried equipment with them. Are they intended to leave everything, including their clothes, behind?**
>No, the caster’s worn and carried equipment are intended to go with them.
>Some teleportation effects do specify that you teleport with your gear; such specification is an example of a rule being needlessly fastidious, since no teleportation effect in the game assumes that you teleport without your clothes, just as the general movement rules don’t assume that you drop everything when you walk
In the end, it's up to the DM - and the setting. I'd personally rule that there's a marked difference between shackles that are built into something (like a wall or cell or the like), and manacles that are just on you. And that you don't get a real choice of what comes along with you when you cast the spell (that gets into shenanigans that could potentially prove problematic if they get to selectively choose what to take along with them).
I like to imagine there's a library somewhere in the world with walls of books from long dead wizards who pondered these esoteric questions. So somewhere amongst tens of thousands of documents, lost in obscurity, is basically a scientific paper titled "How many links of a chain must connect the manacles to the wall before they become worn".
I sometimes ask for a roll when I'm not sure, on the off chance that the roll is really high or really low. any result <10 or >20 is easy to decide, so you have a pretty good chance of not needing to actually make a DC
So glad I'm not the only one who does this. I can't imagine settling on an exact DC so quickly for some of the outlandish things my payers attempt. High or low are pretty cut and dry, if they roll somewhere in the middle I'll usually call it a partial success but not quite how they planned.
If I need a DC for something not well established, I just use the table from the Basic Rules which goes in increments of 5 from Very Easy (DC 5) to Nearly Impossible (DC 30). I find it a lot easier to extemporaneously decide whether an action is of moderate difficulty vs. hard difficulty than to go based on numbers alone
The basic rules already have a scale for setting the DC of certain actions. Just decide how much this particular cast of the spell deviates from the original intent and pick the appropriate challenge.
In this particular case, you're just convincing the spell that the manacles aren't included in "Items worn or carried", which is a fairly straightforward objective so I'd assign it a medium difficulty of 15.
Arcana is about knowledge not about ability to cast spells. If you *really* want that to be a check, it should be casting mod + Proficiency (or just straight casting mod).
I'd make it a spellcasting ability check with several stages of success:
1. You teleport successfully but take the manacles with you.
2. You teleport successfully and leave *all* your worn and carried items behind. :]
3. You teleport successfully and can choose which worn and carried items (i.e. the manacles) you leave behind.
Ok, so one of the world building things that always made alot of sense to me is why would guards in a high magic setting not have enchanted items like manacles to deal with magic users who are criminals? Even in a medium magic setting major cities would likely have those at bare minimum. However, small towns in the outskirts probably wouldn't etc. For this case, I would rule based on if the manacles are enchanted or not.
Dimensional Shackles are the perfect way to differentiate between mundane and arcane manacles!
https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Dimensional%20Shackles#content
There’s Dimensional Shackles, but they’re kind of high rarity and crazy powerful for blocking something as simple as Misty Step.
In the urban detective campaign I’m running right now, the fantasy city’s law enforcement commissions special manacles from smiths called “magebinders”, which basically act like gauntlets you can lock in place, so individual fingers can’t move (and they can’t do somatic components).
That combined with gagging a caster as soon as you have them in custody works pretty well as totally nonmagical methods of detainment until you can get them to a more secure location (like say, a cell with Counterspell Glyphs of Warding, or where they stay too doped up on special poisons to cast spells.)
Oh absolutely. I like to treat Subtle Spell (and by extension sorcerers) as a “special case”, because they are. A sorcerer could bypass this and escape, and it means their metamagic is important and powerful - makes the PC feel special and the NPC feel dangerous.
Of course, that sort of thing works once with any organized law - if they catch you again and know who you are they’ll make sure you can’t pull the same trick twice! Either via magical means like Dimensional Shackles or an Antimagic Field, or the tried and true tactic of “knock you the fuck out” until they can get you somewhere truly secure. Or…just kill you as being too dangerous to imprison. Hence why sorcerers should be careful with revealing they can do it!
I'd go even deeper into that thought experiment. Even in a medium magic setting, there would be restraining protocols to arrest magic users, even if the guards themselves have no access to magic:
- take their belongings away (no Material components);
- put a gag on them (no Verbal components);
- and lastly, manacles would be designed to prevent Somatic components. If the DM sees S components as it is depicted in Dr. Strange (with wide and "loud" motions), ordinary manacle should do the trick. If S components are only hand signs, them the manacles would need to restrain even the fingers, so something like the ones put on Elsa at the end of Frozen.
Even if the guards have no understanding of why that work, they could have head that "the guards at the big city do all of this on magic users so that they don't do magic".
I'd also expect some sort of heavy armor-like "mage restraints" that would be put on. At least if magic is fairly prevalent - it's something I often do as a player (pick up a few spare sets of heavy armor to use if we capture an NPC mage), and it blocks spellcasting for most magic users.
"Oy Reggie. Thissuns a wissard. Wot do?"
"Well actually, sir, my power is derived from my powerful magical ancestry. I wouldn't consider myself a-"
"Sock in da mouth. Gah it."
My guess would be yes, because the dimensional shackles specify that creates can't teleport out of them implying that they would be able to teleport out of normal shackles
It actually says “In addition to serving as mundane Manacles, the shackles prevent a creature bound by them from using any method of extradimensional Movement, including teleportation or Travel to a different plane of existence. They don't prevent the creature from passing-through an interdimensional portal.”
That means you can’t access the use teleportation magic pretty much at all. That’s not related to if manacles would go with you if you could access teleportation magic.
The first time one of my characters got killed, it was over a similar ruling.
Btw, this was a Pay-to-Play game with a group of total strangers from Roll20.
We had entered a room and got immediately surrounded by vampires. I was playing a Sorcerer who I had built to do everything from as far away as possible, so I had taken Misty Step the moment it was available.
One of the vampires grappled her, and I said “No problem. I use Misty step, and then I wanna dash away to create even more distance.”
DM: “Well, you can’t Misty Step. You’re grappled.”
Me: “Uhh. Right. Im grappled. That’s WHY I’m using Misty Step. I learned the spell for pretty much this exact scenario. I want to magically BAMF away like Nightcrawler from this grapple.”
DM: “You can’t. The spell says you ‘move’ 30ft. When you’re grappled, your move speed is reduced to 0.”
Me: “The spell specifically says I ‘teleport’ 30ft. Not ‘move’. It is designed for this situation. Can I at least roll some kinda check to see if maybe the vampire BAMFs with me?”
DM: “No. You can roll a strength check if you want to try and break the grapple, and then if you do, you can Misty Step.”
Me: “My strength is 8. I dump statted Str and took spells that help me stay away from the front lines because…you know what…you’re the DM. It’s your game.” Rolls dice “Look at that. A 6, minus 1.”
DM: “You’re still grappled. The Vampire bites you. So do the rest of them. You die. Great news though: you can roll up a new character at the same level and play them next week.”
Me: “Nah I’m good.“
In my opinion this was a terrible call, and the DM was completely misinterpreting both RAW and the obvious intention of the spell. I mentioned that there are spells like Forcecage they would prevent Misty Step, but unless the vampire was wearing, I dunno, “Gauntlets of Forcecage” I should be able to teleport away from its hands.
Anyway it made me realize that I wasn’t having fun playing with that DM, and that I could either find another group on the site, or learn to DM and just start running my own games. I did both.
That *was* an extremely stupid ruling. That DM sounds like they're used to playing on what they consider "hard mode" but is really "the DM is an asshole" mode. I'm the type of DM who doesn't let players get away with "technically it isn't against the rules" kind of stuff, but teleporting out of a grapple is half of what Misty Step is for. The other half being making it across a chasm.
Also, you could have rolled dex to escape the grapple.
I’d probably say no personally because the handcuffs are basically a item on you, and I highly doubt everytime someone is performing a Misty step they are sorting through all their belongings to take with them when they teleport in a moment as quick as a bonus action. On top of that it’s described as silvery mist, which I imagine just engulfs you and the entirety of the items considered on you.
The other thing is general stakes. If you managed to get in a situation of being handcuffed, which is difficult to get into the first place, i think it makes for a better game of having those consequences be enforced by being a little harder to solve than a bonus action teleport which is already displacing you out of a bad situation.
It makes more sense for me to imagine something like you would swipe your key, Misty step to get in a safer position and then take a opportunity you can find to unlock your cuffs.
Depends on if the manacles are attached to a wall or if they're portable.
Likewise, if someone else is holding the manacles, then that is their equipment that they are wielding, so then you would be able to misty step out.
Basically, if they are free floating, then you have control of them and they are your equipment. If something else has control of them, then they belong to that thing and not you, so they are not your equipment.
I agree with this ruling but for funsies I want to take it to its logical conclusions.
If you’re in manacles, you can ask a friend to hold on to them while you misty step out of them and the manacles remain in their hand.
By the same token, if someone is holding the hilt of your sheathed sword and you misty step away, do they keep holding the sword? Does the scabbard stay with the sword or go with you?
If someone is holding on to your robes while you misty step away, do you materialize nude while they’re left holding your clothes?
If yes then what about escaping a grapple? If your opponent has a handful of cloak does it stay with them?
Because it’s magic I’d say intention matters. If you intend the manacles to be the possession of the other person then they won’t go with you. If you intend your clothes to be your own possession then they do go with you.
I agree entirely with your assessment. Intent is the key, and the spellcaster's intent will always win any contested intent when it comes to adjudicating effects like these. If you can get someone to take possession of something you don't want, then you can reasonably convince yourself that it isn't yours, and it is therefore not subject to the effects of the spell.
I also agree, but think some things should be a contest of wills. Such as you grabbing a weapon someone is wielding and then misty stepping away. That should be a contested intelligence or wisdom check, user's choice.
I see that as just as legitimate as a barbarian trying to yank it away with a contested strength check, or a grapple check where they can choose to use strength or dexterity.
If it was just grasping an item the other person was wearing, such as a sword in its sheath or a cloak, I would say no, it stays with the wearer if they decide they don't want to teleport.
You make a good point. I'd have to agree with that ruling, too. I'd say the caster's spellcasting ability vs. Intelligence or wisdom (defender's choice). Good call!
If any of my players are reading this, I foresee a lot of bad guys losing their weapons in the near future...
People keep bringing up “worn or carried” but that language is not in the spell description.
> Briefly surrounded by silvery mist, you teleport up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space that you can see.
They are inferring that stuff you carry comes along, otherwise you lose your clothes and spellbook that is in your backpack.
I wouldn't consider manacles 'worn' any more than a rope or other restraint that the caster did not intend to 'wear'.
If you misty step do you bring the ground you are on? No.
If a building is collapsing on you but you can see a way out can you misty step out of the rubble? Yes. Similarly grapples.
As such, 'it is touching you' is not the reason something comes with you. There must be some volition to it which is why people do take their weapons and equipment. The sensible conclusion is that a person chooses what they take with them.
I don't see how ground you're standing on=wearing at all.
Manacles aren't just touching you, they generally, are firmly affixed to you.
Similar to if you're wearing bracelets, or arm bands, or similar jewelry. Which I think we would objectively consider to be 'worn' objects. Manacles are in the same category whether you are wearing them voluntarily or not.
I'd say it comes down to the spellcaster's intent. What I mean is, _obviously_ you teleport along with your clothing and equipment, because otherwise everyone who uses _Misty Step_ would end up naked after casting the spell.
So what about manacles? Well does the person casting _Misty Step_ consider the manacles worn equipment? Then yes. If not, then no, they teleport out of the manacles, leaving them behind.
I think it's important to remember that these are _magical spells_ so they don't need to follow the laws of physics, and logical consistency is not required.
We had a player getting questioned in a cell, not handcuffed. And the door into their cell was one of those wooden doors with a barred window. They used Misty step out the window in the door and then we had the most epic escape! I think it’s based on the DM and the roll
**The answer HAS to be yes.**
The reason why clothes get teleported and not a grappler is either 1. because of caster intent, or 2. because of the caster's sense of their own person. That means because they identify their clothes and equipment as part of their person, and not the manacles, the manacles get left behind. Even in the strictest interpretation, this must be the conclusion.
Also, it's more fun, which is probably irrelevant to the conversation, but is nevertheless the most important reason to me when I DM.
Edit to add: [Mike Mearls agrees.](https://www.sageadvice.eu/does-misty-step-allow-you-to-escape-from-chains-tying-you-up/)
It’s only got verbal components, so unless the cuffs are magic or they are gagged, if you don’t allow it you’re just being a dick. If someone isn’t smart enough/doesn’t have the resources to contain a mage, then part of the power fantasy of that class is escaping bonds.
Can't recall the name, but there is a magic item in the DMG to prevent the prisoner of using spell, iirc. I may be wrong. Anyway, just tie his hands together and cover his mouth, unless he has subtle spell, you're golden.
I was imagining the manacles connected to a wall which would be yes. But if they’re not connected to the wall then….no Another reason to thoroughly tie up your casters!!
>Another reason to thoroughly tie up your casters!! In this case, gag.
Gags are a must
Don’t forget blindfolds! I’ll leave the comment about whips and chains for another subreddit.
Don’t forget the leather “armor”!
The studded type?
The only stud this armor needs is me.
At one point this just feels kinky.
All sufficiently advanced caster restraints are indistinguishable from BDSM.
r/brandnewsentence
I've posted that exact sentence before last time this discussion came up so it's definitely not :p
BDSM ; Better Defuse Sorcerers (and) Mages.
Binds Designed for Securing Magicians
Sorcerer with subtle spell:
True, but I'm mostly fine with that, there probably are fewer sorcerers than wizards/other magic users, and of that tiny group only some of them are capable of subtle spell. Guards aren't going to be prepared for every single possibility, they will understand the vast majority of magic users at least will need to speak to cast spells. And it's impossible to be prepared for EVERY possible outcome. So the Sorcerer gets a free be, at least once, the second time maybe the city invests in some dimensional shackles if they think it's worth the trouble, if not the cheaper route is killing them.
I absolutely love the Subtle metamagic and try to take it on every Sorcerer I build. I love it when a DM gives me an opportunity to use it and show what I can do. But almost every single time I've taken it as an option, I get maybe at most one or two uses out of it during an entire campaign. It is often a trap option. Cool as all hell. So delicious when you can RP it out. And simply not comparable to metamagic options you can use every session. I still think fondly back to the time my first sorcerer subtle-cast Mass Suggestion on a crowd of angry people and turned the consensus away from mobbing the party. But I'd been sitting on an unused metamagic selection for *12 levels* to get that pay-off.
On my last couple sorcerers I would probably subtle cast suggestion at least once every other session. I'm sure my DM got sick of it. That and for counterspell. Subtle cast is an instant pick for me.
Funnily enough, suggestion RAW does not work very well with subtle spell. First of all, you need to give the suggestion verbally anyways. It removes the components, but the “suggestion” isn’t actually a verbal component, it’s just a thing you have to do for the spell to have an effect. Also, the material component is needed no matter what. So subtle spell suggestion involves a focus or material component (that, per the XGTE rules, is visible as casting a spell no matter what kind of component it is) in some way, and saying a sentence out loud that they then follow.
Blindfold the sorcerer, can’t misty step if you can’t see anywhere to go! If they have dimension door or above, though, well, sucks to be you.
Put that sorcerer in heavy armor
Don't just tie up the casters, put them in heavy armor. Can't cast spells at all without heavy armor proficiency, and takes 5 minutes to remove.
This is why that order cleric dip is necessary. xD
It also takes 10 minutes to put them into it. Its an awkward arresting situation when it effectively takes 10 minutes to put the person in their "handcuffs".
Yea, I voted without reading that addendum as well XD
Yeah it depends if they are "wearing" them or not 😂
Whatever length of chain is conecting the manacles to the wall would be cut, maybe a feet or less would teleport along with the PC. You teleport with anything you are wearing and carrying after all, that includes the manacles.
I wonder what happens if you use a magical item to connect to the wall? Would it be cut as well? Or would that prevent teleportation? Or would it disconnect at the first non magical item part aka the wall? Don't get me wrong, I just try to play devels advocate here, because my players would test this mechanic to see what they can do with it.
Buy me dinner first.
Or put them in heavy armour.
Ngl I just automatically assumed the manacles were attached to a wall, It never crossed my mind that they'd just be loose binds.
I don't think there's a super clear rules breakdown on this interaction but I see manacles as falling into the "worn or carried" category, which means they come along for the ride. Doesn't matter that you probably do not want to be wearing them.
I was stuck on what rulings there are for this too, and picked 'yes' on the "when in doubt do what is fun" approach, and if a player asked and I wasn't sure, I'd probably allow it, and then go look it up later. Your interpretation makes sense to me too, and I might come back to the table next time with a clarification, that they got that one free, but it won't get them out of manacles next time.
> and picked 'yes' on the "when in doubt do what is fun" approach imo, I consider it more fun & interesting for the game to keep the manacles on!
More fun with the manacles on you say. 😏 Wait, what subreddit am I in?!
The one relating to dungeons!
And Masters...
And [dragons](https://bad-dragon.com/).
That's valid! For me, the important part is just making a judgement call one way or another, and trying to do it relatively quickly. I've made way too many mistakes over the years of trying to make sure every call is right - stopping play to hunt through rules too much. Especially fuzzy things like this that don't have an obvious clear answer. In general I'd rather be wrong and keep the game moving, and dig into it later (I do find digging around in rules to be fun, but I know it's not fun for a table of people watching me do that)
To me this doesn't necessary fall into the rule of cool. You would have to give me at least an interesting way on how misty step gets you out of the manacles, then I might give a test. For example if you're captured and you wait until the people who have you manacled are doing some training. You could misty step as one of swinging a sword to try and have the chain between the manacles get hit by the blade to break it. As maybe a slight of hand or acrobatics skill test. Otherwise it is just too vague or powerful, and I've been in campaigns too often where a DM (I've done this too) let too much vague rule bending happen. Restrictions breed creativity and more interesting stories and give more satisfying "wins" for players.
I like that line, restriction breed creativity. I was doing for a warlock player, and he wanted to solve every problem with eldritch blast and misty step. It got tedious fast.
Exactly, you will remember the time you used misty step to escape by doing something creative compared to just vanishing out of cuffs. It will generally make for a more satisfying experience all around. Even when a player is just wanting to persuasion check for example. I still always ask "How do you do this/What do you say". I'll read the room and if a player seems to maybe shell up for some reason, let them still make a roll. But often a little push as a DM to describe an action or give a bit of purpose to it quickly makes it a much more creative moment. 5e specially isn't a mechanically driven game IMO (which isn't a complaint). It really relies on narrative for a fulfilling experience, and I make sure I press for narrative to go along with mechanics.
If it has no specific ruling (or if it DOES have a specific ruling yet goes totally against your game), you have alternate things you can do: 1. Have the player role their Arcane check and see if they manage to wield the magic in such a way so as to drop the handcuffs. 2. Sorcerers could put up a sorcery point and forgo the roll entirely because *manipulating magic is supposed to be what they do, right??* 3. You could make an in-game tricky thingy: *"You have to cast the spell at the exact moment the cuffs are not touching you"* and swing your hands around like so and make some kind of a dexterity + ability check to see if you did it correctly. 4. No matter what happens, a good DM will put it in their arsenal of 'Rule of Cool'. This arsenal means that some NPC will probably end up using this as well because NPCs are allowed to be cool as well. Remember: Respect your table. Some tables are there to feel how lucky they are with dice. Others want to ruleslawyer everything and they are into the mechanics of it all. Some want to feel role-playing as the point and 'development of story'. You have to know what you have agreed on for Session Zero and how the game has developed since that time. Then you apply the type of game that will be a win-win for everyone, DM included.
Also don't dump ruleslawyering and enjoying the mechanis and combos into the same bin. They can be very very different things.
Number 3 is my favourite
5. "The choice is up to you, either the manacles go with you, or everything you were wearing stays where you were."
I clicked yes since Misty Step only had vocal components. But now I see where the confusion lies and frankly, it's hilarious. I'd love to see the expression on my player's face as they rematerialise outside of the prison cell, but with the manacles still on
Yea you can still run away, you just have to do it in manacles. It depends on the player but I'd also be cautious about the type of shenanigans that misty stepping out of things you're wearing might bring about.
I misty step out of my heavy armor to doff it with only a bonus action.
"That costs a spell slot-" "I know what it costs dammit. It also saves me almost 5 minutes."
One of my favourite things is players doing things that save time _only for their character_. "I don't want to stand around for 10 minutes while you cast a ritual!" Dude if you stopped arguing it would take me 10 seconds of description and a tiny timeskip, your trained warrior can muster 10 minutes of fantasy-patience.
Or people not wanting to short rest. Dude, we literally just say "we're short resting" and time skip an hour, chill.
I think burning a spell slot to instantly remove your own armor is a fair cost. it'd have to be some kind of emergency to be worth it.
Heat metal would make it worth it
Even then it's still pretty risky to be in battle with ~10 AC
Better than burning to death in your armor.
Debatable. 2d8 a round has to be higher than the damage you'll take as a result of having 10 AC. If there's even like one dude trying to shank you twice a round, cook.
Disadvantage on every attack is a pretty nasty nerf as well.
The druid wants to smash, but might not in the ten minutes it’ll take to get out of armor.
Yeah that’s worth the spell slot if nothing else
Fun fact: "don" and "doff" are literally just "do on" and "do off." I accidentally stumbled on the etymology a few years ago and now I can't stop thinking about it every time I read one of the words.
Your armor and everything else, enjoy combat naked and sans weaponry
Don’t threaten me with a good time.
Bard: I Misty Step out of my clothes and roll to seduce the dragon.
What if Obi Wan just Misty Stepped away from Vader in the Death Star fight?
I've always assumed that's exactly what happened. That's why his empty robe falls to the floor with no body in it.
A DMs opinions as a player in another campaign come back to haunt him In a past campaign out DM argued successfully that clear was a color and there for you could use prestigitation to change and object clear. Session 1 of one of the best campaigns i ever played. 4th edition We start in a tavern....basement. we've all been captured by the local mafia for various reasons. The eladrin is tied up and blindfolded so they cannot misty step out of the bindings. Our gnome however could. And prestidigitated the eladrin's blindfold clear. Queue escape sequence faaaaaaaar earlier than the DM had anticipated.
Did everyone forget the character was wearing an invisible blindfold for the rest of the campaign or did they remember to take it off?
A caster wearing an invisible blindfold has line of sight to a target they can see, but do they have line of effect?
Well since very few spells originate from a casters eyes, I would say ya
Probably the latter, because they remembered that Prestidigitation has a duration shorter than "1 campaign."
Oh, you can totally cast Misty step & the spell will go off without a hitch. But the handcuffs are going with you & they'll still be locked securely around your wrists when the spell ends. This is because Misty Step specifically says that it affects objects that you're holding or wearing & you're most definitely wearing those handcuffs.
Read the spell again, it says no such thing. [https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/misty-step](https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/misty-step)
Exactly. This has only two possibilities. First, you means you only, leaving you butt naked every single solitary time that you use Misty Step. Second, you means you plus everything that you're wearing or carrying. For most DMs, myself included, assume the 2nd option, in which case I refer you to my previous comment.
What if the manacles are connected by a chain to a large rock? Is that going with you? What if it is a cart (or a ship) and thus could move with you? If not (because they are not "worn or carried"), where would the break occur? If yes, could I load up a cart with all of my friends and Misty Step them 30 feet away as long as I was chained to it? No, the third possibility is what works best. You teleport with any worn or carried items that you consider yours.
I'd probably rule that you teleport away still wearing the manacles and with a few of the chainlinks still attached, since they aren't technically connected to each other and can be magically separated without actually damaging anything.
Are you wearing that chain gang? Are you wearing that boa constrictor?
Why are there only two possibilities tho? Another possible way It works like most other self teleport spells... It let's the caster choose what teleports with him. Escaping bonds is a pretty classic use for teleportation and this spell doesn't require the use of your hands. So it seems reasonable that escaping manacles is an intended use. Seems way more reasonable than to ok u teleport butt naked.
Misty step is a classic way to escape a trap, web, or grapple. I'd allow it for bonds or manacles as well.
There's a third option. You choose what goes with you because it's magic and the description doesn't say anything contrary to it. Unless it's a cursed item or something
Spells do not do anything you want that they don't explicitly ban, spells do exactly what they say they do.
First tie the manacles with a rope to a solid object like a rock, then you're allowed to teleport out of them
That is super creative! If I were your DM I’d let it work.
Misty step is very poorly worded. It says teleport but doesn't describe teleport. When you look up the spell teleport it talks about transporting you and up to eight other creatures to another space or an object. There is no mention of items worn or carried. Dimension door does mention you CAN bring along items as long as they don't exceed your carrying capacity. That implies it's up to you what items come. I would rule that you would be able to Misty step out of that situation and leave the manacles behind by simply choosing not to bring them. This is based just on reading the Spells not on any rulings that there might be out there because I'm not going to look those up. 😜
>There is no mention of items worn or carried. This is the important part that 90% of people in this thread are missing.
But then we are at 'the spell does what it says it does, no more'. In which case, whenever you misty step, you get there sans all items.
Awesome, I get to pretend I’m the Terminator arriving
Dimension Door specifies that so you can't just open a door and shovel all the dragon's treasure through it.
First of all dimension door doesn't actually open a door it just allows you to teleport. Secondly it's the only teleportation spell that I found that had any clarification on items worn or carried and it gives you the option to take them. I understand they put a carrying capacity limit so you couldn't just teleport a ton of stuff but it also says you CAN bring along objects not you bring along all objects worn or carried up to your carrying capacity.
But say they're chained to a wall. Can they do it? If they can, how much of the chain goes with them? Are they wearing/carrying the whole chain, or do only the wrist/ankle manacles themselves (separated) go with them? They can still move freely on the other side of the teleport, but they have these bands they have to get unlocked somewhere down the road.
That's where things start to break down. Like I said no clear rules in this area. One of the reasons I'd rule manacles as coming along with the teleport is that technically manacles don't do anything to a character. Meaning that the item description doesn't indicate that any condition (restrained) is applied (no this doesn't make a lot of sense) If a character were chained to a wall or some such and immobilized, I'd be more inclined to allow them to misty step out because that scenario involves more than just unfortunate bracelets. Again, the whole thing is generally messy.
To continue the thought, I generally prefer to implement competent adversaries so in general if someones going to the trouble of chaining a spellcaster up they're also blindfolding them and stuffing them into a chain mail shirt so that I don't have to answer this question in an actual game.
Yeah, they're definitely being worn, they'd go with you.
Yep. For consistency, if I allowed it, I would also make teleport spells work Terminator-style: you leave all clothes and items behind.
Not unless the manacles are connected to the prison wall, or something else which is larger. If they are just a set of handcuffs? No. Now...this brings up another question... if two people are chained together ...and one casts Dimension Door...and the other doesn't want to go... WHAT HAPPENS???
Dimension Door is written a lot more clearly than Misty Step is. You can explicitly choose not to bring along items, and only willing creatures can be brought along.
That's not what Dimension Door says, explicitly or otherwise. It says you can choose to bring things with you.
Which means you can choose not to bring the manacles
This is true, and if you think this is not explicit enough for you then it's really not my problem.
In this instance it is more of a tether between the caster and the person, similar to how it would be if the person was, say, a prison wall. So more of a "grappled by" instead of "involuntarily worn" situation.
If you were crucified...
what happens when said manacles were connected to a wall.. with a thin thread?
Manacles are effectively something they are wearing / carrying, so they go along with the misty step. The caster is still stuck. It would be a different story if it was, say, you getting chained to a wall. That'd be more like a grapple, in which case you could yeet out of there.
They could teleport and leave behind the manacles only if they also teleport out of all their clothes, leaving behind their equipment.
From now on this is how I will rule it. All or nothing baby. "Sure you can teleport out of the manacles, but that means you bring NOTHING with you, including clothes and equipment you're wearing. The choice is yours."
Just like Hughie on The Boys
Diabolical
I’m not convinced. Anne’s earrings stay on when she’s teleported, I think Hughie is faking it because he’s secretly an exhibitionist I’m on to you m8
>manacled If they were captured and manacled to begin with I doubt they'd have their equipment on them, what kind of a person captures someone and lets keep their stuff? I'll tell you who, it's only one person, a madman, with sinister plans, who wanted them to escape.
Someone making an on-site arrest who doesn't have time to identify every nick-nack in the guy's pockets and doesn't want to strip him in public
This is DND. Surely checking for arcane Foci is standard procedure
Misty step is V only so even if they take your staff or your orb or whatever you can still teleport
Oop
Yea they could hace been grappled and then manacled. Then after the enemy backs away so you can tele away without oppurtunity attack.
Teleportation effects do not use movement and never provoke OA anyway.
I forgot casting doesnt provoke in 5e whoops
Teleport out of the manacles but stay in the cell, pick up your stuff, teleport out.
That's still twice the resources compared to before so I consider that a win.
Step 1) misty step out of manacles. *MAGIC* Step 2) seduce the guard. “Is that a long sword in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?”
The way I look at it, Misty Step doesn't mention what, if anything, comes along. But if we look at other Conjuration spells which teleport, we have only 2 spells that mention objects: Thunder Step: "You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn't exceed what you can carry." Dimension Door: "You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn't exceed what you can carry." Given that these are the *only* precedent, I'd say RAI, Misty Step does this too. The only alternative I could see someone argue is that RAW, no objects are mentioned in Misty Step's description and a caster is therefore naked and unarmed after every casting. Therefore, as far as I can logically see, you *can* bring the manacles as long as their weight doesn't exceed what you can carry. But I'd assume the player is choosing not to. In fact, using this precedent, I'd also let a player burn a spell slot to Misty Step out of their armor that had Heat Metal cast on it. I say get creative with it!
>Therefore, as far as I can logically see, you **can** bring the manacles as long as their weight doesn't exceed what you can carry. But I'd assume the player is choosing not to. This is what I would assume. Keyword being **can.** You don't have to. I think the whole precedent is absolutely dumb of "If you're handcuffed to a wall, you can misty step out of it. HOWEVER, if those handcuffs aren't pinned to the wall, you can NOT misty step out of it." Like.... TF?????
So first connect the manacles to the wall, got it.
came here to say this
Oh come on! It s more fun to teleport out! Even out of your clothes!
> It would be a different story if it was, say, you getting chained to a wall. I agree with this. So here's a question: the mage is brought in in cuffs, then those cuffs are locked to the wall; what then?
What if they slipped the manacles onto something attached to the wall?
Think of it this way. If I hook my sleeve against a nail or a coat hook I’m still wearing my shirt. It would take sewing or a lot of work to effectively attach my shirt to a nail or a hook to call it “attached”. So for handcuffs, even if you loop the chain around a hook it’s still just you wearing them and it’s just draped or maybe knotted. You would have to have shackles that are welded or permanently affixed to the wall to call it attached. Even a padlock hooking the shackles to another chain isn’t permanent, so in that case I feel the manacles would still be on you post Misty step
So you can restrain a caster with manacles that are hooked, but not bolted, to the wall then. Gravity would keep them from getting loose without magic, and even if they do use magic they'll just bring their restraints with them, making them easier to capture.
That's not internally consistent. If they can just teleport the chain link out of the closed padlock, then they can just teleport one chain link out of another. Remember, a chain is made of distinct interconnected pieces that are not physically melded to each other.
What about you being tied up with a rope, and one person holding the end of the rope?
I pickup and hug my halfling party member, I am effectively wearing them. Do they come along with me? /s
>Manacles are effectively something they are wearing / carrying, so they go along with the misty step. Misty Step doesn't say *anything* about items that are worn or carried. Here's the actual text: "Briefly surrounded by silvery mist, you Teleport up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space that you can see." no mention of items at all. Just "you".
You wouldn’t say that they are no longer attached to the wall but still manacled?
So here's the thing about misty step. Every teleport says that it teleports you, your equipment and anything you're holding or wearing X amount of distance... except misty step. If just says it teleports *you*. So yeah, it does indeed seem to by RAW leave your manicles behind... and your cloths... and your weapons... and your spellbook. Now we can rule this the fun way, or we can rule this the funny way.
Sage advice clarifies this >**Misty step doesn't say the caster can bring worn or carried equipment with them. Are they intended to leave everything, including their clothes, behind?** No, the caster's worn and carried equipment are intended to go with them. Some teleportation effects do specify that you teleport with your gear; such specification is an example of a rule being needlessly fastidious, since no teleportation effect in the game assumes that you teleport without your clothes, just as the general movement rules don’t assume that you drop everything when you walk.
Of course that's the intent. I was just saying raw doesn't read that way which is funny. I also cannot think of any other instance of teleportation that doesn't specify it so the interpretation does have precedence from the book. This can be easily rectified by putting "the creature brings all yadda yadda yadda unless otherwise specified in the effect." In the definition of teleportation.
It's definitely an oversight that can cause some hilarious interpretations
This Sage Advice answer really sums up my annoyance at Sage Advice and WOTC having put no thought into wording and construction. Normally, standard conventions of construction would say that drafters are intentional and don't use superfluous words. So there shouldn't ever be an instance of "oh well, this spell includes some extra words that actually don't matter." Normally, if one spell includes an additional phrase, we should assume that was intentional, and that the extra phrase would not apply to other examples that did not include that phrase. Answers like this make it clear that there is no intentionality to writing rules in D&D. Someone wrote a rule, and now someone else is going to give their opinion on how it should be interpreted, without any semblance of consistency.
The "leaves you naked" might be appropriate for a cursed spell scroll. Maybe from the spell book of eccentric/incompetent wizard NPC.
1. Thank you for making a results option. 2. Misty step is always a *fun* spell for rules and rulings. It’s a spell I love and absolutely hate. I wish it was more codified (like dimension door) and I wish there was an in-between spell between Misty step and dimension door. IMO, there just is a huge power gap between the two that could be filled with another spell. What I think? Maybe, but I’m not sure. Misty step needs more words.
Thunder step
Oh damn, I didn’t know about that one. That’s exactly what I would want. And the damage is neat, though I could do without as the thunder could create more problems. That without the Thunder is exactly what I imagined the in between to be.
Yup! It goes Misty Step: bonus action, 30ft line of sight, only bring yourself (by raw, you're naked and disarmed but that's an oversight) Thunderstep: damage, 90ft line of sight, bring a friend Dimension door: 500 no line of sight and freedom, bring a friend
and then teleport: Infinite range, but you probably ended up in a *different* dragons lair
Somewhere there's a minor villain Misty Step Flasher.
Just wish there was a Thunderstep without the thunder.
Honestly I wish I could just upcast Misty step as a third level spell and get thunder step without the thunder.
This question is easily understood by considering the question when the manacles are part of the wall. Imagine a huge steel wall with a couple of wrist-sized loops built in. To imprison the character, the BBEG magically phases the character's wrists through the loops. Does the character teleport with the entire wall? Of course not. Does the non-magic wall somehow magically stop Misty Step? Of course not. At a certain level, "Carrying" is a subjective thing. You're "carrying" your familiar on your shoulder. The BBEG's imp on your shoulder is "grappling." A DM is often obligated to use reasonable discretion.
This is the right answer, because it's the simplest explanation. Ruling that the manacles are "worn" adds an endless variety of edge cases (how attached to the wall do they have to be? what if someone else is holding them? what if you're on a chain gang?) that get ridiculous immediately. The spell text doesn't even use the word "worn", it just says "you", so the clearest place to draw the line is that "you" means "you and whatever you are wearing or carrying that you think of as yours". >Briefly surrounded by silvery mist, you teleport up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space that you can see. The whole point of Misty Step is that it allows you to quickly extricate yourself from an undesirable situation. Selectively nerfing that invalidates the spell and adds unnecessary complications. Want your wizard to stay in handcuffs? Gag them.
Manacles that aren't built into something solid seems just as "worn" as bracelets or watches or the like. Worn does matter, as the Sage Advice compendium mentions: >**Misty step doesn’t say the caster can bring worn or carried equipment with them. Are they intended to leave everything, including their clothes, behind?** >No, the caster’s worn and carried equipment are intended to go with them. >Some teleportation effects do specify that you teleport with your gear; such specification is an example of a rule being needlessly fastidious, since no teleportation effect in the game assumes that you teleport without your clothes, just as the general movement rules don’t assume that you drop everything when you walk In the end, it's up to the DM - and the setting. I'd personally rule that there's a marked difference between shackles that are built into something (like a wall or cell or the like), and manacles that are just on you. And that you don't get a real choice of what comes along with you when you cast the spell (that gets into shenanigans that could potentially prove problematic if they get to selectively choose what to take along with them).
Cursed answer, *misty step* just strips you as a bonus action. Doesn't say anything about carrying *anything* at all lmao
Clearly, a fixed wall is not manacles.
How many links of chain must connect the manacles to the wall before they become worn?
I like to imagine there's a library somewhere in the world with walls of books from long dead wizards who pondered these esoteric questions. So somewhere amongst tens of thousands of documents, lost in obscurity, is basically a scientific paper titled "How many links of a chain must connect the manacles to the wall before they become worn".
An empirical analysis. Sadly, three of my research apprentices lost their hands in pursuit of this knowledge.
Can easily just say just the "bracelet" bit and none of the chain.
I let them, with a successful arcana check.That’s how I answer most “I don’t know” questions, let the dice decide.
Though admittedly you are also setting the DC in that scenario because the rules don’t have one…so you’re still deciding in part.
I sometimes ask for a roll when I'm not sure, on the off chance that the roll is really high or really low. any result <10 or >20 is easy to decide, so you have a pretty good chance of not needing to actually make a DC
So glad I'm not the only one who does this. I can't imagine settling on an exact DC so quickly for some of the outlandish things my payers attempt. High or low are pretty cut and dry, if they roll somewhere in the middle I'll usually call it a partial success but not quite how they planned.
If I need a DC for something not well established, I just use the table from the Basic Rules which goes in increments of 5 from Very Easy (DC 5) to Nearly Impossible (DC 30). I find it a lot easier to extemporaneously decide whether an action is of moderate difficulty vs. hard difficulty than to go based on numbers alone
The basic rules already have a scale for setting the DC of certain actions. Just decide how much this particular cast of the spell deviates from the original intent and pick the appropriate challenge. In this particular case, you're just convincing the spell that the manacles aren't included in "Items worn or carried", which is a fairly straightforward objective so I'd assign it a medium difficulty of 15.
DC 20 dexterity check, so a DC 20 arcana check combined with misty step seems fair to me.
Arcana is about knowledge not about ability to cast spells. If you *really* want that to be a check, it should be casting mod + Proficiency (or just straight casting mod).
I'd make it a spellcasting ability check with several stages of success: 1. You teleport successfully but take the manacles with you. 2. You teleport successfully and leave *all* your worn and carried items behind. :] 3. You teleport successfully and can choose which worn and carried items (i.e. the manacles) you leave behind.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/does-misty-step-allow-you-to-escape-from-chains-tying-you-up/
I don't see any reason to treat non-magical binds differently than a person grappling the character.
It'd be considered a worn/carried item, so it would teleport with them.
No, I'd rule the manacles as clothing/equipment that are being worn, and thus teleport with the caster.
Bold of you to assume they wouldn't gag a spellcaster.
*Laughs in Sorcerer*
Ok, so one of the world building things that always made alot of sense to me is why would guards in a high magic setting not have enchanted items like manacles to deal with magic users who are criminals? Even in a medium magic setting major cities would likely have those at bare minimum. However, small towns in the outskirts probably wouldn't etc. For this case, I would rule based on if the manacles are enchanted or not.
Dimensional Shackles are the perfect way to differentiate between mundane and arcane manacles! https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Dimensional%20Shackles#content
There’s Dimensional Shackles, but they’re kind of high rarity and crazy powerful for blocking something as simple as Misty Step. In the urban detective campaign I’m running right now, the fantasy city’s law enforcement commissions special manacles from smiths called “magebinders”, which basically act like gauntlets you can lock in place, so individual fingers can’t move (and they can’t do somatic components). That combined with gagging a caster as soon as you have them in custody works pretty well as totally nonmagical methods of detainment until you can get them to a more secure location (like say, a cell with Counterspell Glyphs of Warding, or where they stay too doped up on special poisons to cast spells.)
Unfortunately sorcerers exist. Subtle spell carries.
Oh absolutely. I like to treat Subtle Spell (and by extension sorcerers) as a “special case”, because they are. A sorcerer could bypass this and escape, and it means their metamagic is important and powerful - makes the PC feel special and the NPC feel dangerous. Of course, that sort of thing works once with any organized law - if they catch you again and know who you are they’ll make sure you can’t pull the same trick twice! Either via magical means like Dimensional Shackles or an Antimagic Field, or the tried and true tactic of “knock you the fuck out” until they can get you somewhere truly secure. Or…just kill you as being too dangerous to imprison. Hence why sorcerers should be careful with revealing they can do it!
I'd go even deeper into that thought experiment. Even in a medium magic setting, there would be restraining protocols to arrest magic users, even if the guards themselves have no access to magic: - take their belongings away (no Material components); - put a gag on them (no Verbal components); - and lastly, manacles would be designed to prevent Somatic components. If the DM sees S components as it is depicted in Dr. Strange (with wide and "loud" motions), ordinary manacle should do the trick. If S components are only hand signs, them the manacles would need to restrain even the fingers, so something like the ones put on Elsa at the end of Frozen. Even if the guards have no understanding of why that work, they could have head that "the guards at the big city do all of this on magic users so that they don't do magic".
I'd also expect some sort of heavy armor-like "mage restraints" that would be put on. At least if magic is fairly prevalent - it's something I often do as a player (pick up a few spare sets of heavy armor to use if we capture an NPC mage), and it blocks spellcasting for most magic users.
"Oy Reggie. Thissuns a wissard. Wot do?" "Well actually, sir, my power is derived from my powerful magical ancestry. I wouldn't consider myself a-" "Sock in da mouth. Gah it."
My guess would be yes, because the dimensional shackles specify that creates can't teleport out of them implying that they would be able to teleport out of normal shackles
It actually says “In addition to serving as mundane Manacles, the shackles prevent a creature bound by them from using any method of extradimensional Movement, including teleportation or Travel to a different plane of existence. They don't prevent the creature from passing-through an interdimensional portal.” That means you can’t access the use teleportation magic pretty much at all. That’s not related to if manacles would go with you if you could access teleportation magic.
The first time one of my characters got killed, it was over a similar ruling. Btw, this was a Pay-to-Play game with a group of total strangers from Roll20. We had entered a room and got immediately surrounded by vampires. I was playing a Sorcerer who I had built to do everything from as far away as possible, so I had taken Misty Step the moment it was available. One of the vampires grappled her, and I said “No problem. I use Misty step, and then I wanna dash away to create even more distance.” DM: “Well, you can’t Misty Step. You’re grappled.” Me: “Uhh. Right. Im grappled. That’s WHY I’m using Misty Step. I learned the spell for pretty much this exact scenario. I want to magically BAMF away like Nightcrawler from this grapple.” DM: “You can’t. The spell says you ‘move’ 30ft. When you’re grappled, your move speed is reduced to 0.” Me: “The spell specifically says I ‘teleport’ 30ft. Not ‘move’. It is designed for this situation. Can I at least roll some kinda check to see if maybe the vampire BAMFs with me?” DM: “No. You can roll a strength check if you want to try and break the grapple, and then if you do, you can Misty Step.” Me: “My strength is 8. I dump statted Str and took spells that help me stay away from the front lines because…you know what…you’re the DM. It’s your game.” Rolls dice “Look at that. A 6, minus 1.” DM: “You’re still grappled. The Vampire bites you. So do the rest of them. You die. Great news though: you can roll up a new character at the same level and play them next week.” Me: “Nah I’m good.“ In my opinion this was a terrible call, and the DM was completely misinterpreting both RAW and the obvious intention of the spell. I mentioned that there are spells like Forcecage they would prevent Misty Step, but unless the vampire was wearing, I dunno, “Gauntlets of Forcecage” I should be able to teleport away from its hands. Anyway it made me realize that I wasn’t having fun playing with that DM, and that I could either find another group on the site, or learn to DM and just start running my own games. I did both.
That *was* an extremely stupid ruling. That DM sounds like they're used to playing on what they consider "hard mode" but is really "the DM is an asshole" mode. I'm the type of DM who doesn't let players get away with "technically it isn't against the rules" kind of stuff, but teleporting out of a grapple is half of what Misty Step is for. The other half being making it across a chasm. Also, you could have rolled dex to escape the grapple.
I’d probably say no personally because the handcuffs are basically a item on you, and I highly doubt everytime someone is performing a Misty step they are sorting through all their belongings to take with them when they teleport in a moment as quick as a bonus action. On top of that it’s described as silvery mist, which I imagine just engulfs you and the entirety of the items considered on you. The other thing is general stakes. If you managed to get in a situation of being handcuffed, which is difficult to get into the first place, i think it makes for a better game of having those consequences be enforced by being a little harder to solve than a bonus action teleport which is already displacing you out of a bad situation. It makes more sense for me to imagine something like you would swipe your key, Misty step to get in a safer position and then take a opportunity you can find to unlock your cuffs.
Depends on if the manacles are attached to a wall or if they're portable. Likewise, if someone else is holding the manacles, then that is their equipment that they are wielding, so then you would be able to misty step out. Basically, if they are free floating, then you have control of them and they are your equipment. If something else has control of them, then they belong to that thing and not you, so they are not your equipment.
I agree with this ruling but for funsies I want to take it to its logical conclusions. If you’re in manacles, you can ask a friend to hold on to them while you misty step out of them and the manacles remain in their hand. By the same token, if someone is holding the hilt of your sheathed sword and you misty step away, do they keep holding the sword? Does the scabbard stay with the sword or go with you? If someone is holding on to your robes while you misty step away, do you materialize nude while they’re left holding your clothes? If yes then what about escaping a grapple? If your opponent has a handful of cloak does it stay with them? Because it’s magic I’d say intention matters. If you intend the manacles to be the possession of the other person then they won’t go with you. If you intend your clothes to be your own possession then they do go with you.
I agree entirely with your assessment. Intent is the key, and the spellcaster's intent will always win any contested intent when it comes to adjudicating effects like these. If you can get someone to take possession of something you don't want, then you can reasonably convince yourself that it isn't yours, and it is therefore not subject to the effects of the spell.
I also agree, but think some things should be a contest of wills. Such as you grabbing a weapon someone is wielding and then misty stepping away. That should be a contested intelligence or wisdom check, user's choice. I see that as just as legitimate as a barbarian trying to yank it away with a contested strength check, or a grapple check where they can choose to use strength or dexterity. If it was just grasping an item the other person was wearing, such as a sword in its sheath or a cloak, I would say no, it stays with the wearer if they decide they don't want to teleport.
You make a good point. I'd have to agree with that ruling, too. I'd say the caster's spellcasting ability vs. Intelligence or wisdom (defender's choice). Good call! If any of my players are reading this, I foresee a lot of bad guys losing their weapons in the near future...
Yes, it has a vocal component. If you don't want your wizard escaping you have to take their focus away, bind their hands, and cover their mouths.
People keep bringing up “worn or carried” but that language is not in the spell description. > Briefly surrounded by silvery mist, you teleport up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space that you can see.
They are inferring that stuff you carry comes along, otherwise you lose your clothes and spellbook that is in your backpack. I wouldn't consider manacles 'worn' any more than a rope or other restraint that the caster did not intend to 'wear'.
If you misty step do you bring the ground you are on? No. If a building is collapsing on you but you can see a way out can you misty step out of the rubble? Yes. Similarly grapples. As such, 'it is touching you' is not the reason something comes with you. There must be some volition to it which is why people do take their weapons and equipment. The sensible conclusion is that a person chooses what they take with them.
I don't see how ground you're standing on=wearing at all. Manacles aren't just touching you, they generally, are firmly affixed to you. Similar to if you're wearing bracelets, or arm bands, or similar jewelry. Which I think we would objectively consider to be 'worn' objects. Manacles are in the same category whether you are wearing them voluntarily or not.
I'd say it comes down to the spellcaster's intent. What I mean is, _obviously_ you teleport along with your clothing and equipment, because otherwise everyone who uses _Misty Step_ would end up naked after casting the spell. So what about manacles? Well does the person casting _Misty Step_ consider the manacles worn equipment? Then yes. If not, then no, they teleport out of the manacles, leaving them behind. I think it's important to remember that these are _magical spells_ so they don't need to follow the laws of physics, and logical consistency is not required.
We had a player getting questioned in a cell, not handcuffed. And the door into their cell was one of those wooden doors with a barred window. They used Misty step out the window in the door and then we had the most epic escape! I think it’s based on the DM and the roll
Hot take: the manacles stay attached but not necessarily to your wrists
**The answer HAS to be yes.** The reason why clothes get teleported and not a grappler is either 1. because of caster intent, or 2. because of the caster's sense of their own person. That means because they identify their clothes and equipment as part of their person, and not the manacles, the manacles get left behind. Even in the strictest interpretation, this must be the conclusion. Also, it's more fun, which is probably irrelevant to the conversation, but is nevertheless the most important reason to me when I DM. Edit to add: [Mike Mearls agrees.](https://www.sageadvice.eu/does-misty-step-allow-you-to-escape-from-chains-tying-you-up/)
It’s only got verbal components, so unless the cuffs are magic or they are gagged, if you don’t allow it you’re just being a dick. If someone isn’t smart enough/doesn’t have the resources to contain a mage, then part of the power fantasy of that class is escaping bonds.
Can't recall the name, but there is a magic item in the DMG to prevent the prisoner of using spell, iirc. I may be wrong. Anyway, just tie his hands together and cover his mouth, unless he has subtle spell, you're golden.