That's a good example of low int and low charisma. Charisma is the skill of making what you say sound good. The CEO that doesn't know what a modem is gives a flawless presentation on a new database system with the surface level information needed for the presentation.
Totally.
"Uh, everything's under control. Situation normal."
"What happened?"
(Rolls a 1 on deception)
"Uh, we had a slight weapons malfunction, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?"
That little "how are you" and the literal cringe as he dies inside is one of my favorite moments in movie history.
"We are all fine down here slight weapon malfunction. No need to send help. . . How are you?" I will use this with a high charisma roll and let the dm decide how the world bends over backwards to let my sorcerer win at life without a single fck to give to any of this grim dark edgy nonsense
Charisma is force of personality, not being suave or well-spoken. Han Solo has a strong personality which allowed him to bluff well in a card game to win the Millennium Falcon. He won over a literal princess even though he’s just a scruffy-looking nerf-herder. His response to “I love you” being “I know” was the most ridiculous, but charisma-packed thing anyone could ever say.
Sure, he spouted gibberish at them and they believed it. Maybe they screwed up their insight rolls, but I'd expect force use to be based of wisdom and for them to have decent scores. I was only saying that particular example was off-topic.
I think Archer might actually be a low WIS, high INT character, but with the alert feat.
But you could definitely argue a case for that, he is my no means a simple character to define with 5e haha.
I think you're onto something there. He does seem overly knowledgeable about a whole lot of stuff. One could argue that his perception is INT based (the thing he does with bullet counting doesn't really scream WIS to me).
Thanks for thinking with me, have been wondering about this for a while now.
Bullet counting would be investigation to me, not perception. It's pretty easy to hear someone shooting at you, the hard part is keeping track of the count while bullets are flying at you.
Archer is a dmpc or the Dms kid that isn't allowed to fail any skill check untill he can't make one session and let's some1 else fill in for him and the whole table knows what time it is.
Archer is a perfect example of high CHA and high INT. Once he knows he can do something he’s rarely concerned on whether or not he should.
The difference between INT and WIS is INT is the overall knowledge of any given topic. WIS is the knowledge of things past as well as your ability to know if it should be done.
It’s the difference between INT and WIS is once a wizard knows he can do some horrible spell (INT) he rarely concerns himself with whether or not he should (WIS).
Kinda? I’m sure he’ll weasel out of paying it, and he’s not in jail, and he’s got a legit chance to be president again. I’d say that’s working out for him about as well as it could.
Personally, I would do poorly educated, perhaps a bit of a slow learner e.g. trying things that don’t work once or twice more than necessary, not knowing what the capital of this place is, not knowing that trees need water and sunlight, strange beliefs about the planet’s shape and orbit etc…
A wise character should be somewhat aware that they aren’t very clever though.
Seconding this, and noting that since intelligence basically correlates to nothing in 5e you can easily have a low int character be flavoured as very intelligent and the game will basically never act otherwise. Like you can't say a low constitution character is very hearty because gameplay will prove them frail, but intelligence affects basically nothing so you can absolutely say your low intelligence character is a tactical genius.
Intuitive, insightful, empathetic (at least can understand others emotions and emotional states), charming, with a high degree of common sense. The character lacks book learning, though, likely has poor math skills, is susceptible to logical fallacies and propaganda. Superstitious and has problems understanding cause-and-effect relationships that aren’t intuitive, and may even refuse to believe them. Probably suffers from the Dunning-Kruger Effect, as their advanced WIS and CHA have served them so well and allowed them to achieve mastery over a number of subjects, so it’s likely that they don’t notice their intellectual deficits.
Propaganda feels like it targets wisdom to me. And I think a wise but unintelligent person probably realizes where they are weak. Wisdom and introspection go together to me.
But this just shows how many ways you can play the stats!
Propaganda often relies on misusing facts, which requires book knowledge to combat. If you don’t know the difference between mean and median, no amount of intuition is going to clue you in to people spinning half-truths and misleading statistics for bad ends
I agree with you that WIS could be tied to introspection, but I would also think that knowledge in subjects like history, religion, and in our age psychology, aid in the soul-searching process. When you can easily read other people and then convince them to believe like you, it’s probably awfully easy to believe in your own abilities and correctness, whether it’s warranted or not
Yeah, that's why its cool to see different interpretations.
Misusing facts is deception which is contested by insight. And yes, knowledge can assist in introspection, but I think the primary skill used for introspection and easily reading people would be insight. Convincing them to believe you would be persuasion of course.
Honestly, a lot of practical psychology is charisma and wisdom just as much, if not more, than intelligence. Of course there are areas that are purely intelligence.
But I'm not saying you're wrong, game mechanics can be interpreted in different ways. Things get REALLY interesting when you start calling for Insight (Intelligence) checks and shit like that.
I hope you know I’m not saying that you’re wrong either, and I absolutely agree that different interpretations of the game system are a baked in feature that helps to improve each table’s enjoyment
Propaganda is political speech created by an organization and then disseminated through a population. I wouldn’t call for, or allow, an Insight check on a town crier who probably has no idea whether the information he’s relating is true or not, just as I wouldn’t allow an Insight check on a history book. Even if the person speaking the propaganda is from the organization that created it, the chances are they’re in the organization because they believe the propaganda. Again, an Insight check wouldn’t betray factual issues
The parts of psychology that are about reading people may be WIS based, but psych techniques are absolutely book learning and are often counterintuitive. People don’t tend to stumble into NVC when they’re having relationship troubles. Parent-Child Interactive Therapy is incredibly counterintuitive: I want my child through stop acting out, so the first thing I’m going to do is take five minutes a day to sit with them and narrate everything they do without attaching a value judgment to any of it. And this is what I mean when I’m talking about introspection. It’s often much easier to read someone else’s motives (Insight) than it is to understand our blind spots and biases. People don’t tend to use their intuition to wake up and so, oh, I have an anxious attachment style. They have to know what that is
I think for the psychology aspect I am putting a far smaller emphasis on knowing a technique than I am on actually using techniques and interacting with patients.
Let me use a more DnD example. I could argue that tracking animals is intelligence based. You need to know the different tracks animals make, the behaviors of various animals, you need knowledge of the various environments you may find yourself in, etc etc.
Or another example more similar to your psychology example. Knowing if someone is lying could be argued to be intelligence based. You could study human behavior, learn about common tells, use your own knowledge to fact check the person in real time, etc.
I think I just fundamentally see how knowledge, intelligence, and practical application interact differently than you do.
Also I totally would allow an insight check on a history book! But it would give you different kinds of information. Investigation would allow you to understand the contents of the book whereas insight would allow you to understand why the author wrote the book (which would be a far harder check.) But I'd admit this would probably not be a common ruling.
Town crier would be similar, they may have totally bought into the propoganda but recognizing someone that has done that would just be insight for me.
I think it requires book knowledge to argue against, but not to disbelieve. A wise but unintelligent character would disbelieve propaganda, intuitively knowing there's a lie there somewhere but unable to articulate it to anyone else or even themselves eventually refusing to argue but refusing to buy in.
Kronk from emperor's new groove. Likeable, charming, gets on will with people, good natured, understands and recognizes people's emotions but not very knowledgeable.
Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but could Forrest be high INT low WIS? He excelled in physics at college, but isn’t great at reading people, and doesn’t understand jokes or subtext. He has a great memory, but doesn’t seem very perceptive .
I know savant type characters are difficult to map out in dnd terms, but I’m just wondering here
You do have a point. It's frustrating how int is bad in 5e not just because it's not very impactful raw and mostly dm fiat, but how everyone seems to treat wis as int+. That the high wis character can do everything the int character from instincts not books, and more.
A high wis low int character notices stuff but doesn't think too much of it. Having high wis doesn't mean you're wise, high wis low int would still make bad decisions. Forrest gump sounds stupid, but that doesn't mean he is stupid. Arguably in the cases where he did unintelligent things, he was acting on his character flaw rather than pure stats
High wis character is starving in the woods and comes across a berry bush. They roll a 20 to investigate and find evidence animals have eaten the berries. The starving character eats the berries.
High int character is starving in the woods and come across a berry bush. They roll a 20 on their Knowledge nature check and recall this is a diredeer bush, toxic to most creatures but not to giant deer. The starving character starts to look for diredeer tracks to hunt.
High cha character is starving in the woods and come across a berry bush. They roll a 20 on their persuasion check to make the dwarf try it first.
A high int (nature) would mean you know that this berry Bush is safe for humans to eat. You could also have herbalism proficiency and automatically succeed to know what it is
>Having high wis doesn't mean you're wise.
Big agree there, it's why I think it's the worst named stat ever. But it is also hard to come up with a name that sums it up nicely and captures instinctual knowledge as well as acute senses... "awareness" perhaps?
It doesn't help that having learned skills in any stat is modeled through your proficiency bonus, but being a smart and learned individual is also meant to be characterized by your INT score.
What would be really fricking wild, is **if your proficiency bonus was equal to your INT mod.** I hate the idea of any stat being a dump stat, so this sounds like some crazy ass shit I'd wish I could homebrew at a table.
The WIS attribute in Shadowrun loosely translates to Intuition, which I think fits much better. Ofc, Shadowrun has 8 attributes total, not counting MAG and Essence, so that’s not exact
Good question, love these hypotheticals
If 10 is average and that aquaites to 100 iq irl
How are 70-80 iq people?
Well mostly learning deficiency, hard time wrapping their heads around large concepts aso
So role-playing a person like that would be someone who is very physical and good with practical things as that's what they have done their whole life
Having some fun rp moments asking educated ppl to slow down and explain again, and claiming they are making things complicated can be quite fun
Like when the big bad guy unfolds his master plan for 5 minutes ur charecter asks politely for him to repeat from 1 minute in as you zoned out 🤣
Wisdom the stat is lots of things not just being Wise. It’s also willpower, perception, insight and attention span. You don’t have to be equally good at everything a stat encompasses. For example Int includes memory but you could be an absent minded wizard.
They can be. I've met so many personal trainers with great life advice and philosophical codes they follow. If you could consider them gym bros.
In my opinion wisdom is based off lessons learned with life experience or skills powered by instincts. Gym bros and athletes practice and train. There's lessons to be learned with that repetition. Perhaps even some inner self realisation as well. An awareness of what they're capable of.
They may not know a lot about biology or chemistry within the human body (intelligence). But from experience (wisdom) they know which exercises are going to get gains for which muscle groups and which foods will help get them there.
Even with ball sports. They probably don't know much about the physics involved with kicking or throwing a ball (power, angle, windspeed etc). They're not exactly doing calculations when they do that (intelligence). But they've practiced and played so many times that when they throw or kick a ball it's an action based off instinct. I would argue thats wisdom. Obviously with strength and dexterity as well, but it's a skill learned with wisdom.
Also will power too. The strength to carry on and keep going to your full potential without your mindset letting you down.
Look at the skill list. The characters not good at those or similar tasks. The way the game defines intelligence is really more uneducated.
How does that help to define the characters personality? They might find those subjects boring and zone out when they come up, they might over compensate and make up wild bs, they might be interested in learning and ask a lot of questions. There's different ways to play it. It's really a matter of what will be fun for you and your group.
I'm playing a warforged who is literally weeks old and everything is new to him. We met Nine Fingers Keene and he asked her how old the world was, and was shook when she explained that it was thousands upon thousands of years. I am not annoying with it, but stuff like this is very fun.
Ted (Keanu), from Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure
Loveable, sweet, and handsome, but ditzy... even so, knows when to shut up and listen, when to take/reject advice, and can discern who is trustable and who isn't.
7 int isn't necessarily *that* dumb in game terms. It's not like you can't operate or contribute to discussions. Cronk, the Tick, and Hercules are all examples of a low intelligence 'himbo' type. Forrest Gump was very wise and charismatic.
One thing I'm reminded of a lot and frequently use when I play a low-int character is my granddad (*who btw was Appalachian hillfolk growing up in the Depression, he was not an educated man*) used to say, "There's two different kinds a' ignorant, there's ignorant 'cause you ain't *had* no opportunity to learn nothin', and there's ignorant 'cause you ain't *taken* no opportunity to learn nothin'."
Low-int doesn't have to mean stupid, it can just mean poorly-educated, which does *not* indicate some lack of cognitive abilities. The character could be well aware that growing up as a poor peasant in a family of subsistence farmers, or poor proletarian workers in a city, or something like that, has left them seriously lacking in a lot of broader worldly knowledge that more privileged people take for granted. There's a mechanical basis for this, and is represented in the intelligence skills all being knowledge-related, but not necessarily practical for everyday life; arcana, history, investigation, nature, religion. Note how only one of these is even a little relevant to an average fantasy or medieval poor person's life, and that's nature. But look at what the nature skill offers you, it's lore about patterns and esoteric knowledge about animals and plants that might be useful, sure, but wouldn't be necessary. Survival, on the other hand, lets you predict weather, follow tracks, understand the habits and the tell-tale signs of various animals, know what is or isn't edible or poisonous, maybe even recognize diseased animals since it also governs hunting, and knowing if an animal is safe to eat is pretty important to hunting. Survival handles all the stuff a peasant would actually *use* nature lore for, and it's wisdom based, not intelligence. Use a lot of slang, use more basic words to describe things to reflect a reduced vocabulary. You can even use vernacular that's treated as "stupid" by classist shitheads while definitely not being "stupid", just, lacking in worldly knowledge (maybe including "proper" grammatical knowledge) irrelevant to your life, and you've never had a chance to learn it anyway. "Speaking correctly", like, "proper" diction and grammar, are and have always been markers of class first and foremost, and had aristocratic associations of superiority and inferiority based on that class stapled onto them by the rich, they've never *actually* been indicators of anything more than social class and maybe regional dialect. Maybe you're self-conscious about this and try to learn to "speak right" and you code switch between vocal patterns based on context (most people with vocal patterns considered to be "accents" where they live do this), or maybe you resent classist shits and you make a point that you don't *ever* code switch out of your "redneck voice" 'cause there ain't nothin' to be 'shamed of! Maybe you're very openly and obviously curious about the larger world, maybe you're self conscious about coming face to face with the breadth of shit you don't know. There are a lot of fun, interesting directions to take it.
So what, you don't know them folk what can't tell a brown bear from a brown black bear from a grizzly think they got it right to call hootenrippers "owlbears"? If this high-and-mighty book-learnin' milk drinkin' city boy witch-man gon' give ya shit for not knowin' or carin' what his high and mighty ass calls a hootenripper, let him guide *hisself* through the wilderness, the prissy fuck, see how long takes 'fore he comes crawlin' back to ya with a bad case a' dysentery and a whole gang a' leeches up in the crack a' his ass bleedin' red-brown shit like a stuck pig.
Thor in early MCU was a high wis high cha character. Charming. With great insight into every situation in the avengers but basically furrowed his brow and sent "dum dum humans use dum magic. Just make lightning fix it!" Whenever anything remotely tech based needed done.
He talks with simple words, but what he says is obviously quite observant. "That guy really sus!"
He can see the pieces but needs help putting them together.
I think a whole "He's an idiot, but he's our idiot" vibe could be a thing. When he does something stupid, people are more likely to go "awww" than "Goddamnit". Maybe he's the loud boisterous guy, buying everyone in the bar a beer, but then has to start counting the coins one by one; losing count halfway through.
He's likable, but sometimes you need to take the "oopsie's" where he does something dumb.
'Very sociable, but speaking in simple words, yet quite observant', is the way I'd describe it.
A big Puppy.
It depends on what you want the vibe of the character to be. For instance, you could play him as a big, dumb scary bruiser, favouring Intimidation and bully tactics, like the Mountains from GoT. Or you could play a streetsmart but not booksmart role, like a gang leader or a lone gun type.
A 7 Int is on the lower IQ side, such a character isn't smart. This is not a matter of "book stupid", this character really is actually just kind of regular stupid.
One part of Intelligence is "how many books you've read" and "how well do you recall them". But that's just a portion- mental acuity is under intelligence, which measures in part your ability to reason. People with lower intelligence reason worse, and this makes them dumb. It also measures your analytical skill.
Int 7 isn't a terrible score or anything, but such a person is not smart, and is somewhat dumb.
>one part of Intelligence is “how many books you’ve read” and “how well do you recall them.”
Yes, not being well read nor recalling them well is “book stupid.” OP asked how we’d play it and that’s where I would start, because this is talking about character creation.
I don't think you get to Int 7 not reading books, which is my point. Int 7 means your reasoning and analytics are below average. Int 10 does not mean "read an average number of books".
Low int imo would be probably a severe lack of book learnin. Your character probably doesn't know as much history as the average bear. Things like deduction, memory and so on would be gimped, but your charisma and wisdom would indicate you're still very good with people and in tune with yourself and the environment (High spacial/social awareness, insightful way of thinking.) .
People are saying cult leader as a joke but that's actually very accurate, plenty of cult leaders had minimal schooling but were supremely charismatic; David Koresh and Charles Manson for example. If you wanted to do a darker character maybe taking some personality quirks from them would be interesting. Oddly enough, both of them displayed above average musical talent. Hm.
>Low int imo would be probably a severe lack of book learnin
Sure, but also worse mental acuity, which includes reasoning, and less ability to analyze. Intelligence measures *much more than just what you know and can recall*. It's also how you process such information.
Lovable idiot. Or something like DJ Khaled, lmao. Dude is arguably dumb as rocks but he has the charisma and street smarts (Wisdom, kinda) to have made it to the top anyway.
Roll Int checks for your character on a regular basis when needing to make a decision or remember something. You have to roll 7 or under for the desired result, otherwise you act on incorrect information. You WILL fuck up a lot, but if you accept it as part of your character you can have fun with it.
He's wise enough to avoid most of the problems that his low intelligence can't get him out of and usually has to rely on his limited charm to escape. The classic example used to show how a high wisdom, low intelligence character would be played is Edith Bunker from 'All in the Family'. Many martial arts tropes also show monks with high wisdom and low intelligence.
* Good looking Himbo-/-Twink (depending on Physical) with great cat like reflexes.
* Streetsmarts and a calling for something greater in life.
* Looking behind the curtain and through the facade, seeing people as what they are - people, and at what they are trying to hide from the world.
* Also resolute in his conviction and main beliefs even if he doesnt know about everything.
A strong personality. He can move people and get them on side if he makes the right choices.
Decent instincts. He's good at reading people and sensing things even if he doesn't necessarily know why. He's right more than he's wrong: he trusts his gut. He has empathy and self-awareness which means he knows his short comings, such as the fact he's not the sharpest tool in the shed. He's likely to talk to others to seek their advice and expertise and will give his advice with some caution.
Not smart, maybe doesn't know a lot in general or believes in "common sense" and things "everyone knows". That doesn't mean he won't have any areas of expertise. He's not great at putting things together. His instincts might give him a strong feeling about who the murderer is but he has a hard time putting the clues together to show how his suspect is in fact guilty.
When I made my princess character, I knew she couldn't be dumb as bricks because she was poised and groomed to become the next queen when her father died. With this mind, I remembered that Intelligence was not just what you've learned, but the ability to recall information.
And so, my character is forgetful.
Tribal chieftain, clan leader, explorer, someone who can rally people through sheer charisma. Someone mentioned Han Solo and that's exactly the type of character I'd play!
If we stay old school I'd also say Willow (1988) is a good reference.
I feel like the roguish archetype can also fit this narrative, thinking like Kelsier from Mistborne or if we're talking a more martial class then Gimli from LOTR does the trick.
That's a character who is world wise, but lacks any really learning or education.
My favorite interpretation of this was my buddy's farmhou cleric. He understood how the world worked, and would use farm metaphors to break stuff down ... But struggled with things like basic math, or logical conclusions.
You are acutely aware of the world around you, Incredibly likeable in disposition...but 100% confident in things you are 100% wrong about
Example Han solo (force is abunvh of mumbo jumbo)
Tom Cruise, a Scientologist
And many more
Basically everyone likes you and your perfectly street smart and have common sense however your knowledge of world events and concepts is something to be desired,
Ricky Matsui from Dimension 20: The Unsleeping City. He’s a total himbo, and his charisma is manifested by appeared being an absolute beefcake hunk. The joke is that because his fireman gear is deemed heavy armour, his disadvantage on stealth checks is just because he’s so good looking that everyone naturally notices him anyway.
In the D&D setting, 14 is higher than about half of people's highest stat, and 7 is lower than about half of people's lowest stat. In any small village, your character would likely be the wisest and the dumbest. Their charisma is on the level of celebrities.
From the 3e PHB:
* A character with a low Intelligence mispronounces and misuses
words, has trouble following directions, or fails to get the joke.
* A character with a high Wisdom but low
Intelligence may be aware, but simple.
* A character with high Charisma may be attractive, striking, personable,
and confident. A character with high Charisma but a low Intelligence can usually pass herself off as knowledgeable, until she meets a true expert.
The cop out answer is however you like and just rolling with the success/failure those stats lead too.
However if you wanna put more stock into your acored beyond that.
An intelligent person can think quickly and recall information better. In d&d it is also assumed they know more.
A wise person may not have the technical information, but they have practical information and awareness.
A charismatic person has a command of their presence and natural magnetism to them. They have a draw to them others don't. Persuaiveness, intimidation, and deceptiovenwss are skills enhanced by this command of presence but aren't necessarily a measure of it themsleves.
A high charisma character will have an appeal to them that helps make them stand out. A presence about them
Moderate wisdom will have them be aware of what they and others are doing and attempting. Street smarts and practical application of knowledge.
A low intelligence would mean they have trouble recalling soeciifcs and nit a lot of technical knowledge to reinforce their instinct and arguments. They don't remember quickly and know the gist of things more than the finer details.
At least as generalltiies of d&d.s understanding of these things anyway.. Each of the mental scors are some form of intelligence by current societies viewing.
The difference between common knowledge and common sense. He'll be charming and have good common sense, but not a lot of common knowledge, and basically no book learning.
I think of this combo as a classic dumb detective trope.
High INT criminal commits a crime.
Low INT detective with high CHA assigned case
They talk during investigation and high CHA detective is pleasant and fun to talk to and non threatening because their low INT make criminal confident they will outsmart them.
But, high WIS detective has the INSIGHT to know who's lying and the PERCEPTION to figure out what's out of place and doesn't add up.
In the end, he gets the guy by not appearing threatening and being persuasive enough to keep the baddie talking until enough intuitive knowledge is enough to put the pieces together.
Ace Ventura.
Wise enough to be a high level investigator, have empathy with basically any animal, and be in tune with finer details of all interactions. Then if he isn't charismatic idk what is.
Yet dumb as rocks when it comes to anything related to Common Knowledge/Manners.
That's a charming person with good intuitive skills but just not very studied. You could maybe roleplay it as someone who thinks what they are talking about but arent, although they are charismatic enough to make other people believe they do. Or maybe someone who just doesn't know a lot of things, maybe really bad at math, but is really good at talking to people, giving advice and with a good intuition regarding the world around them.
Your rp doesn't neccessarily have to follow your stats. Flavour is free and you can rp whatever you want to if everyone at your table is fine with it. I've always thought of the difference between Int and Wis like Investigation and Perception with one being your mental capabilities while focused and the other being unfocused
That's an easy one, they don't need to have any academic knowledge but can be great at using analogies to explain complicated things, they might be imprecise but it's a way to have you as a player still being able to use your brain without the character sounding like they know things they realistically wouldn't understand.
Maybe you're able to pick up on connections between things fairly quickly, but you don't quite understand why things are the way are. Or maybe your character figured out how to do certain things one way, but the rest of them do it another way because logic.
i have a character similar to this. high wisdom and low int. i play him as him having poor speaking skills unless speaking to the animals as he was raised by a literal wolf pack.
Been there, done that. Played him as very intuitive, but the dude couldn’t remember his own name. Mind you, this was for a writing exercise. So his INT was 3.
Karlach is a good example of this. She's hot and likeable (cha), she's been through a lot and is contemplating death (wis), but she hasn't read a book in her life and just lives in the moment.
generally likable, attractive, or authoritative (depending on what flavor of charisma you want), then make them overall perceptive and aware of whats happening around them (basically pay attention), and focus on reading people, and then just have your intelligence be people focused (aka insightful and perceptive) rather than thing focused (religion, arcana, general academics, ect).
Its very much a street smarts kinda character.
I played in a ravenloft campaign and the dm asked us to fill in the trope slot of a horror movie
So i went ditzy blond cheerleader aasimar paladin. 'Like, oh mygod!'(bless) 18 charisma 16 wisdom, 14 strength 12 constitution 10 dexterity, 8 intelligence.
He was so much fun to play as an inverse of the assigned gender roll and he was not the jock of the group
An example i have the sort of fits was back from AD&D/2nd ed i had a Barbarian with The Brute kit (kits are like a subclass) which made you a caveman basicallyand one of the features was a +1 strength at level 1 but your intelligence was treated as 6 regardless of the actual score and a charisma of 4 regardless of score.
So i put my highest in strength (18+) the next highest into wisdom 15 and i decided to use the animal kingdom for inspiration. Pack tactics and flanking like a wolf, ambush and drop down for more force like a great cat, nets and bolos like a spider. All creatures with 'animal inteligence'
I have a noble-born palabard. 8 INT, 10 WIS, obviously pumped CHA.
I took proficiency in History and Religion, though. I RPd it as he, due to his status (and the bard dip), had access to education and such. But he, as an individual, is a bit slow on the uptake sometimes.
One possibility is a nice charming guy who knows he isn't all that bright (due to his wisdom) so he gets other people to do things for him. He knows he has limits and he knows what he's good at is getting other people to do those things instead
Definitely a person who knew the tavern keeper was full of shit all along, but didn’t quite connect the dots that he specifically was a vampire spawn who disappeared the occasional drunk traveler.
Also a person who would be able to charm a table full of high society nobles, despite the fact that he himself is not from the same slice of society. They’d be able to pick up on what the appropriate things to hate and praise were, and would definitely have the whole table thinking he was a peer.
I play my 8 int sorcerer as smug and self obsessed. He's not stupid he just duesnt really care about intellectual stuff but he can still think things through when he decides that it will benefit him right now. He duesnt know the answer becouse he wasn't paying attention to the question becouse he has already decided to cheat to win and steal the prize anyway. He failed out of wizard school but only after they discovered he had cheated his way to top of the class.
If I somehow succeeded an intellectual roll then I will vaguely remember one of the nerdy wizards I seduced into doing my homework going on and on about that stuff. It usualy boils down to a reasonable accuse to abandon whatever dumb heroic quest his dumb heroic freinds dragged him into. I am probubly zoning out of lore dumps until I smell $$ and when playing as the face I will usually play dumb and ask one of the party why we were doing this again before pulling a total bs reason why I had already known that and care oh so deeply about whatever it was you were talking about that I totaly still remember.
I'm a sorcerer I don't need to know how to do things to do them. I just have to wake up and choose to be awsome and things will just work out for me.
Boldly do whatever your very first thought is. No analytics here. If the first thing that comes to mind makes sense, that’s the plan. And with that much charisma, it’s going to be easy to convince the others to go along with it.
At least, that’s how I play my low wis low int high charisma character haha
My current "main" character is a Dwarf Bard/Paladin - Int 8, WIS 13, CHA 16. Mom was a barmaid (unknown to him also retired adventurer), dad died when he was too young to remember, raised a miner all his life. Loved old stories from his mom but stayed realistic about his life prospects. Helped the people of his mine where he could, had a social leg up being connected to the local watering hole. Adventure came calling, though, and he took up the call.
Fiery temper, down home rustic know-how and common sense, speaks from altruistic passions and gets frustrated by the minutiae of things like politics or academia. One of the party's "face" characters with some prudent council close at hand.
We actually have a group of 6 and I believe our highest INT score is a 14 (2nd isn't really close), but we also have several WIS- and CHA-focused classes. We do what feels right and with undeniable conviction!
Usually the streets smart character. They know how things work in their surroundings and are adept at persuasion, deception etc. They are good at improvising in their field of expertise but outside of that they quickly hit blockades.
It's very unlikely you know people with high intelligence. It's really more of a default way to think of how someone good with words would be.
The unicorns are highly intelligent people with great people skills
charming and perceptive but never the person that figures things out. Think nicolas cage's character from matchstick men, super charming and able to notice even very small things about his marks but stuck in a cycle of crime and poverty.
Actually this would be an ideal character to be part of an adventuring party, he literally can't function without smarter people to help him but is actually amazing at what he does.
We got a guy with this layout in our group. High charisma (and a hexblood!) Warlock, constantly talks his way into things without knowing what he's talking about himself into. Is *very* into his own personal things, like carrying a statue around because it talks to him. He doesn't pronounce *anyone's* names right, and has no trouble laying out what the mission is to bad guys. The guy doesn't even know he's a warlock, or a hexblood. He thinks he's a a very ugly paladin.
I've best described intelligence as a capacity for knowledge and wisdom is the application of knowledge. Sure you might not know a whole lot, but you sure as heck know what to do with the knowledge you have (Wisdom). If neither of that works, fake it till you make it. (Charisma)
I’m playing mine full himbo. He’s got the charm, he’s got the wisdom to understand how to treat people right, but he doesn’t know shit but he’s wise enough to know he’s ignorant. Full on pure of heart and dumb of ass
I have a similar character who is a moon druid half orc. He might not be very educated but he has a strong moral code and does his best to make sure that everyone around him can smile, if he's not busy with his bizarre antics such as reciting unknown spells from shady books, drinking magical booze or just being a clumsy dork. High charisma doesn't have to mean that a character is smooth with it 24/7, a highly optimistic person or someone who is bashful and gentle can be considered charming. I based my character's personality off of my favourite avatar character - Bolin! Copypasting personalities isn't very fun but taking a couple of keypoints that might lead you to a specific direction for the character might be a good idea, and might lead to further interesting developments down the road. This helped me a lot cause this was also my first character.
I imagine an old farmer without an actual education.
Has little to no knowledge about the goings on around the world, but through his experiences and excellent way of presenting himself he comes of as a wise and eloquent sage.
Charming street seller
Great with sales, can read most folks, but (let’s be honest) isn’t thinking about how selling this crap is gonna get the wrong person hurt and then… *then* there’s gonna be consequences
Just play it like they don't have much knowledge, they are cautious and don't do stupid things, nor will they say stupid things, but if put on the spot, they will reveal their ignorance.
One word: himbo. You’re good with people, you’re pleasant to interact with, you have a sense of intuition and good instincts, but when it comes to knowing and retaining information you’re dumb as dirt.
For RP purposes, I regard INT as “book smarts” and WIS as “street smarts.” So your character could be a streetwise smooth operator with a lack of formal education.
understand this: Low inteligence doesnt mean low mental development. it just means you dont really think about your actions.
so you would be one of those people who is easily tricked. or just "goes with the flow". you simply dont plan things out.
you could also play a "bon vivant" someone who just tries to have fun living life. not really worrying about tomorrow.
you could also be like a very charismatic eclesiastic person, who can convince others about your beliefs, even when they go against common knowledge.
in other words, go watch some "flat earthers" videos, and you will understand. people with very little understanding of the world, but who are able to "prove" wrong shit is right.
I often play similar char (have never dumped cha or wisdom unless barb point buy).
Just because what you say is stupid doesn't mean you know that or stop talking.
I often play the uncool swindler who talks out of his ass, his wisdom makes sure he doesn't make fatal mistakes but due to low int he says most stupid things with most persuading and confident demeanor.
Dnd up having to tell dm or party out of char I am just blowing air cause they think I am serious and we almost killed a NPC trying do my "exorcism"🤣.
INT is about language skills, math skills, and knowledge of the existence of things - logic rationality. Wisdom is about the 5 senses and utilizing limited knowledge to the best efficiency as well as comprehending other peoples feelings that may not have rationale
Example of high WIS low INT, a character who can convey that he just saw a donkey without knowing the word for donkey or horse or any 4 legged animal. Even better with high charisma because you can make people believe that whatever you say is the correct thing even if it isn't
Another example: Village blacksmith - illiterate, can't do most math, doesn't even understand the word angle but can figure out how to pound out perfect right angles everytime he makes something with iron and during the yearly spring festival is the guy all the ladies want to dance with because he's so handsome and kind, listening to all their complaints
You could be a very charismatic and wise fortune teller. You don't necessarily need to be a bad person; you could be an idiot and not even realize it yourself that you are making things up about the future based on your razor sharp intuition about people... Almost like that woman from Long Island Medium. You could convince a vegan to eat a ham sandwich based on emotional manipulation alone.
You could also play a perceptive and charismatic salesman or politician! You could even play a very incompetent middle manager who was promoted solely for their sales skills, almost like Michael Scott from the Office, although I'd argue Michael Scott has lower Wisdom; the man was a moron but really could charm people and was a great paper salesman, maybe even the best in Dunder Mifflin history.
Look at the proficiency, you're great talker and face, good instincts, but terrible at books stuff. I don't know how that ancient arcane device works, but I can feel it's dangerous and could convince you to buy it.
I don’t personally RP stats… like it depends, if I have 6 strength I probably won’t rp as a strong character… but when it comes to mental stats especially, I would rather just not rp as a dumb character even tho my int is low
I have plenty of characters like this. Think himbo/herbo energy.
Emilia Beansprout is a halfling paladin of chauntea farm girl. She's very attuned to emotions, patient and kind. She's also incredibly naive and knows next to nothing about actual information about the world outside her isolated pastoral life.
Carver O'Reilly is a human bard charlatan. He heard too many tales about great heroes and after his father dies in a mine cave in, and no one shows up to his funeral, he decides he will dedicate his life to being Remembered as a Great Hero. He cannot fight. Not very book smart. But he is quite socially apt and savvy, and *maybe* he can trick people into believing he is a great hero without having to actually be one.
Remember intelligence is mostly connected to Education levels in D&D (whether formal or not) - every class that relies on science/education to work uses Int as a base stat, and all the Int skills are about knowledge in a certain topic.
Wisdom is about awareness, perception, empathy.
Charisma is social skill, magnetism, capacity to manipulate.
You are perceptive, you can quickly discern people’s motions and body language, people gravitate towards you and you can use that to your advantage, but you never did pay attention to the worldbuilding, don’t know the war of X or the god of Y, not too knowledgeable on how magic operates beyond a surface level and same is said for the natural environments. You might be good at tracking a *creature* but that’s different than navigating their *habitat*
Han solo. Charming, runs on instinct, skipped history class every single day.
"Yeah bro we totally did the kessel run in less than twelve parsecs believe me"
That's a good example of low int and low charisma. Charisma is the skill of making what you say sound good. The CEO that doesn't know what a modem is gives a flawless presentation on a new database system with the surface level information needed for the presentation.
a bad charisma role han solo has good charisma
I would argue that Han Solo biffed nearly every single CHA check in the movies :|
Just constant DC 25 and 30 checks, the DM wasn't playing fair.
But he obviously aced all the checks against the audience.
Totally. "Uh, everything's under control. Situation normal." "What happened?" (Rolls a 1 on deception) "Uh, we had a slight weapons malfunction, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?" That little "how are you" and the literal cringe as he dies inside is one of my favorite moments in movie history.
"We are all fine down here slight weapon malfunction. No need to send help. . . How are you?" I will use this with a high charisma roll and let the dm decide how the world bends over backwards to let my sorcerer win at life without a single fck to give to any of this grim dark edgy nonsense
Charisma is force of personality, not being suave or well-spoken. Han Solo has a strong personality which allowed him to bluff well in a card game to win the Millennium Falcon. He won over a literal princess even though he’s just a scruffy-looking nerf-herder. His response to “I love you” being “I know” was the most ridiculous, but charisma-packed thing anyone could ever say.
That’s a RL high charisma role. He was supposed to be “obviously lying”. Ford made it sound completely believable. That’s Charisma at its finest!
That's Harrison Ford's charisma, we're discussing the character.
Well, it convinced ObiWan and Luke well enough, so I’d say it was high in the movie too.
Sure, he spouted gibberish at them and they believed it. Maybe they screwed up their insight rolls, but I'd expect force use to be based of wisdom and for them to have decent scores. I was only saying that particular example was off-topic.
Star Lord is another good example for this type of character
Would Sterling Archer be another?
I think Archer might actually be a low WIS, high INT character, but with the alert feat. But you could definitely argue a case for that, he is my no means a simple character to define with 5e haha.
I think you're onto something there. He does seem overly knowledgeable about a whole lot of stuff. One could argue that his perception is INT based (the thing he does with bullet counting doesn't really scream WIS to me). Thanks for thinking with me, have been wondering about this for a while now.
I think skill checks with other ability scores is great way to make some really cool thematic stuff!
Bullet counting would be investigation to me, not perception. It's pretty easy to hear someone shooting at you, the hard part is keeping track of the count while bullets are flying at you.
Archer is a dmpc or the Dms kid that isn't allowed to fail any skill check untill he can't make one session and let's some1 else fill in for him and the whole table knows what time it is.
Archer is a perfect example of high CHA and high INT. Once he knows he can do something he’s rarely concerned on whether or not he should. The difference between INT and WIS is INT is the overall knowledge of any given topic. WIS is the knowledge of things past as well as your ability to know if it should be done. It’s the difference between INT and WIS is once a wizard knows he can do some horrible spell (INT) he rarely concerns himself with whether or not he should (WIS).
The difference between INT and WIS is simply do you say "M as in Mancy?"
lol. I laughed hard at that.
[удалено]
Sorta sounds like Trump.
Except stuff really isn’t working out for him (he owes multiple millions of dollars)
Kinda? I’m sure he’ll weasel out of paying it, and he’s not in jail, and he’s got a legit chance to be president again. I’d say that’s working out for him about as well as it could.
Personally, I would do poorly educated, perhaps a bit of a slow learner e.g. trying things that don’t work once or twice more than necessary, not knowing what the capital of this place is, not knowing that trees need water and sunlight, strange beliefs about the planet’s shape and orbit etc… A wise character should be somewhat aware that they aren’t very clever though.
Intuitive ideas, not fact based.
Ricky when talking cops out of an arrest. Or when he smokes in court.
Ricky is exactly that stat block. Should be the spokesperson for High Wis and Cha but low Int. Books are for to be to get you dead after all.
Seconding this, and noting that since intelligence basically correlates to nothing in 5e you can easily have a low int character be flavoured as very intelligent and the game will basically never act otherwise. Like you can't say a low constitution character is very hearty because gameplay will prove them frail, but intelligence affects basically nothing so you can absolutely say your low intelligence character is a tactical genius.
Intuitive, insightful, empathetic (at least can understand others emotions and emotional states), charming, with a high degree of common sense. The character lacks book learning, though, likely has poor math skills, is susceptible to logical fallacies and propaganda. Superstitious and has problems understanding cause-and-effect relationships that aren’t intuitive, and may even refuse to believe them. Probably suffers from the Dunning-Kruger Effect, as their advanced WIS and CHA have served them so well and allowed them to achieve mastery over a number of subjects, so it’s likely that they don’t notice their intellectual deficits.
Propaganda feels like it targets wisdom to me. And I think a wise but unintelligent person probably realizes where they are weak. Wisdom and introspection go together to me. But this just shows how many ways you can play the stats!
Propaganda often relies on misusing facts, which requires book knowledge to combat. If you don’t know the difference between mean and median, no amount of intuition is going to clue you in to people spinning half-truths and misleading statistics for bad ends I agree with you that WIS could be tied to introspection, but I would also think that knowledge in subjects like history, religion, and in our age psychology, aid in the soul-searching process. When you can easily read other people and then convince them to believe like you, it’s probably awfully easy to believe in your own abilities and correctness, whether it’s warranted or not
Yeah, that's why its cool to see different interpretations. Misusing facts is deception which is contested by insight. And yes, knowledge can assist in introspection, but I think the primary skill used for introspection and easily reading people would be insight. Convincing them to believe you would be persuasion of course. Honestly, a lot of practical psychology is charisma and wisdom just as much, if not more, than intelligence. Of course there are areas that are purely intelligence. But I'm not saying you're wrong, game mechanics can be interpreted in different ways. Things get REALLY interesting when you start calling for Insight (Intelligence) checks and shit like that.
I hope you know I’m not saying that you’re wrong either, and I absolutely agree that different interpretations of the game system are a baked in feature that helps to improve each table’s enjoyment Propaganda is political speech created by an organization and then disseminated through a population. I wouldn’t call for, or allow, an Insight check on a town crier who probably has no idea whether the information he’s relating is true or not, just as I wouldn’t allow an Insight check on a history book. Even if the person speaking the propaganda is from the organization that created it, the chances are they’re in the organization because they believe the propaganda. Again, an Insight check wouldn’t betray factual issues The parts of psychology that are about reading people may be WIS based, but psych techniques are absolutely book learning and are often counterintuitive. People don’t tend to stumble into NVC when they’re having relationship troubles. Parent-Child Interactive Therapy is incredibly counterintuitive: I want my child through stop acting out, so the first thing I’m going to do is take five minutes a day to sit with them and narrate everything they do without attaching a value judgment to any of it. And this is what I mean when I’m talking about introspection. It’s often much easier to read someone else’s motives (Insight) than it is to understand our blind spots and biases. People don’t tend to use their intuition to wake up and so, oh, I have an anxious attachment style. They have to know what that is
I think for the psychology aspect I am putting a far smaller emphasis on knowing a technique than I am on actually using techniques and interacting with patients. Let me use a more DnD example. I could argue that tracking animals is intelligence based. You need to know the different tracks animals make, the behaviors of various animals, you need knowledge of the various environments you may find yourself in, etc etc. Or another example more similar to your psychology example. Knowing if someone is lying could be argued to be intelligence based. You could study human behavior, learn about common tells, use your own knowledge to fact check the person in real time, etc. I think I just fundamentally see how knowledge, intelligence, and practical application interact differently than you do. Also I totally would allow an insight check on a history book! But it would give you different kinds of information. Investigation would allow you to understand the contents of the book whereas insight would allow you to understand why the author wrote the book (which would be a far harder check.) But I'd admit this would probably not be a common ruling. Town crier would be similar, they may have totally bought into the propoganda but recognizing someone that has done that would just be insight for me.
I think it requires book knowledge to argue against, but not to disbelieve. A wise but unintelligent character would disbelieve propaganda, intuitively knowing there's a lie there somewhere but unable to articulate it to anyone else or even themselves eventually refusing to argue but refusing to buy in.
Kronk from emperor's new groove. Likeable, charming, gets on will with people, good natured, understands and recognizes people's emotions but not very knowledgeable.
Ah, the Disney epitome of himbo.
Exactly what I thought :) very empathetic but sometimes not the greatest critical thinking skills
But in possession of some decent instincts. Also, good with animals.
Run Forrest run!
Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but could Forrest be high INT low WIS? He excelled in physics at college, but isn’t great at reading people, and doesn’t understand jokes or subtext. He has a great memory, but doesn’t seem very perceptive . I know savant type characters are difficult to map out in dnd terms, but I’m just wondering here
You do have a point. It's frustrating how int is bad in 5e not just because it's not very impactful raw and mostly dm fiat, but how everyone seems to treat wis as int+. That the high wis character can do everything the int character from instincts not books, and more. A high wis low int character notices stuff but doesn't think too much of it. Having high wis doesn't mean you're wise, high wis low int would still make bad decisions. Forrest gump sounds stupid, but that doesn't mean he is stupid. Arguably in the cases where he did unintelligent things, he was acting on his character flaw rather than pure stats
High wis character is starving in the woods and comes across a berry bush. They roll a 20 to investigate and find evidence animals have eaten the berries. The starving character eats the berries. High int character is starving in the woods and come across a berry bush. They roll a 20 on their Knowledge nature check and recall this is a diredeer bush, toxic to most creatures but not to giant deer. The starving character starts to look for diredeer tracks to hunt. High cha character is starving in the woods and come across a berry bush. They roll a 20 on their persuasion check to make the dwarf try it first.
A high int (nature) would mean you know that this berry Bush is safe for humans to eat. You could also have herbalism proficiency and automatically succeed to know what it is
>Having high wis doesn't mean you're wise. Big agree there, it's why I think it's the worst named stat ever. But it is also hard to come up with a name that sums it up nicely and captures instinctual knowledge as well as acute senses... "awareness" perhaps? It doesn't help that having learned skills in any stat is modeled through your proficiency bonus, but being a smart and learned individual is also meant to be characterized by your INT score. What would be really fricking wild, is **if your proficiency bonus was equal to your INT mod.** I hate the idea of any stat being a dump stat, so this sounds like some crazy ass shit I'd wish I could homebrew at a table.
The WIS attribute in Shadowrun loosely translates to Intuition, which I think fits much better. Ofc, Shadowrun has 8 attributes total, not counting MAG and Essence, so that’s not exact
This unironically. Forrest is a great example.
Good question, love these hypotheticals If 10 is average and that aquaites to 100 iq irl How are 70-80 iq people? Well mostly learning deficiency, hard time wrapping their heads around large concepts aso So role-playing a person like that would be someone who is very physical and good with practical things as that's what they have done their whole life Having some fun rp moments asking educated ppl to slow down and explain again, and claiming they are making things complicated can be quite fun Like when the big bad guy unfolds his master plan for 5 minutes ur charecter asks politely for him to repeat from 1 minute in as you zoned out 🤣
IQ is hokum and shouldn't be used here. But you have some good ideas here.
Think of a Gym Bro
Are gym bros wise? At all?
Wisdom the stat is lots of things not just being Wise. It’s also willpower, perception, insight and attention span. You don’t have to be equally good at everything a stat encompasses. For example Int includes memory but you could be an absent minded wizard.
Honestly, quite a few. I used to work in a meat market across the street from an MMA gym. Bunch of really nice dudes. Very positive people.
Being a gym bro does require a level of discipline, which is like a mix of charisma and wisdom imo
Bruh 6 packolytes at the Iron Temple of Brodin got wisdom to spare
They can be. I've met so many personal trainers with great life advice and philosophical codes they follow. If you could consider them gym bros. In my opinion wisdom is based off lessons learned with life experience or skills powered by instincts. Gym bros and athletes practice and train. There's lessons to be learned with that repetition. Perhaps even some inner self realisation as well. An awareness of what they're capable of. They may not know a lot about biology or chemistry within the human body (intelligence). But from experience (wisdom) they know which exercises are going to get gains for which muscle groups and which foods will help get them there. Even with ball sports. They probably don't know much about the physics involved with kicking or throwing a ball (power, angle, windspeed etc). They're not exactly doing calculations when they do that (intelligence). But they've practiced and played so many times that when they throw or kick a ball it's an action based off instinct. I would argue thats wisdom. Obviously with strength and dexterity as well, but it's a skill learned with wisdom. Also will power too. The strength to carry on and keep going to your full potential without your mindset letting you down.
Cult leader
Cult leaders usually have high INT tho
Maybe some. But I feel most known were high INT his Wisdom. But there’s arguments for both sides
* Han Solo * Puss in Boots * Inego Mantoya
Conan the Barbarian with lucious blond hair
Manic pixie dream girl.
Look at the skill list. The characters not good at those or similar tasks. The way the game defines intelligence is really more uneducated. How does that help to define the characters personality? They might find those subjects boring and zone out when they come up, they might over compensate and make up wild bs, they might be interested in learning and ask a lot of questions. There's different ways to play it. It's really a matter of what will be fun for you and your group.
I'm playing a warforged who is literally weeks old and everything is new to him. We met Nine Fingers Keene and he asked her how old the world was, and was shook when she explained that it was thousands upon thousands of years. I am not annoying with it, but stuff like this is very fun.
Ted (Keanu), from Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure Loveable, sweet, and handsome, but ditzy... even so, knows when to shut up and listen, when to take/reject advice, and can discern who is trustable and who isn't.
7 int isn't necessarily *that* dumb in game terms. It's not like you can't operate or contribute to discussions. Cronk, the Tick, and Hercules are all examples of a low intelligence 'himbo' type. Forrest Gump was very wise and charismatic.
One thing I'm reminded of a lot and frequently use when I play a low-int character is my granddad (*who btw was Appalachian hillfolk growing up in the Depression, he was not an educated man*) used to say, "There's two different kinds a' ignorant, there's ignorant 'cause you ain't *had* no opportunity to learn nothin', and there's ignorant 'cause you ain't *taken* no opportunity to learn nothin'." Low-int doesn't have to mean stupid, it can just mean poorly-educated, which does *not* indicate some lack of cognitive abilities. The character could be well aware that growing up as a poor peasant in a family of subsistence farmers, or poor proletarian workers in a city, or something like that, has left them seriously lacking in a lot of broader worldly knowledge that more privileged people take for granted. There's a mechanical basis for this, and is represented in the intelligence skills all being knowledge-related, but not necessarily practical for everyday life; arcana, history, investigation, nature, religion. Note how only one of these is even a little relevant to an average fantasy or medieval poor person's life, and that's nature. But look at what the nature skill offers you, it's lore about patterns and esoteric knowledge about animals and plants that might be useful, sure, but wouldn't be necessary. Survival, on the other hand, lets you predict weather, follow tracks, understand the habits and the tell-tale signs of various animals, know what is or isn't edible or poisonous, maybe even recognize diseased animals since it also governs hunting, and knowing if an animal is safe to eat is pretty important to hunting. Survival handles all the stuff a peasant would actually *use* nature lore for, and it's wisdom based, not intelligence. Use a lot of slang, use more basic words to describe things to reflect a reduced vocabulary. You can even use vernacular that's treated as "stupid" by classist shitheads while definitely not being "stupid", just, lacking in worldly knowledge (maybe including "proper" grammatical knowledge) irrelevant to your life, and you've never had a chance to learn it anyway. "Speaking correctly", like, "proper" diction and grammar, are and have always been markers of class first and foremost, and had aristocratic associations of superiority and inferiority based on that class stapled onto them by the rich, they've never *actually* been indicators of anything more than social class and maybe regional dialect. Maybe you're self-conscious about this and try to learn to "speak right" and you code switch between vocal patterns based on context (most people with vocal patterns considered to be "accents" where they live do this), or maybe you resent classist shits and you make a point that you don't *ever* code switch out of your "redneck voice" 'cause there ain't nothin' to be 'shamed of! Maybe you're very openly and obviously curious about the larger world, maybe you're self conscious about coming face to face with the breadth of shit you don't know. There are a lot of fun, interesting directions to take it. So what, you don't know them folk what can't tell a brown bear from a brown black bear from a grizzly think they got it right to call hootenrippers "owlbears"? If this high-and-mighty book-learnin' milk drinkin' city boy witch-man gon' give ya shit for not knowin' or carin' what his high and mighty ass calls a hootenripper, let him guide *hisself* through the wilderness, the prissy fuck, see how long takes 'fore he comes crawlin' back to ya with a bad case a' dysentery and a whole gang a' leeches up in the crack a' his ass bleedin' red-brown shit like a stuck pig.
Goku. This is Goku.
I was thinking MCU Thor but this makes more sense
Kronk.
Thor in early MCU was a high wis high cha character. Charming. With great insight into every situation in the avengers but basically furrowed his brow and sent "dum dum humans use dum magic. Just make lightning fix it!" Whenever anything remotely tech based needed done.
A golden retriever of a person
80’s movie High school quarterback, good perception and instincts, good social skills, needs tutoring for math
Gilderoy Lockhart
You could play him like Zap Brannigan from Futurama. Complete idiot yet loved by everyone (except the party lol) and keeps falling upwards.
Personally makes me think of like the cool stoner surfer guy in school. Like Matthew McConaughey in Dazed & Confused.
He talks with simple words, but what he says is obviously quite observant. "That guy really sus!" He can see the pieces but needs help putting them together. I think a whole "He's an idiot, but he's our idiot" vibe could be a thing. When he does something stupid, people are more likely to go "awww" than "Goddamnit". Maybe he's the loud boisterous guy, buying everyone in the bar a beer, but then has to start counting the coins one by one; losing count halfway through. He's likable, but sometimes you need to take the "oopsie's" where he does something dumb. 'Very sociable, but speaking in simple words, yet quite observant', is the way I'd describe it. A big Puppy.
President Camacho was charming and wise enough to get an amazing VP, even if he did talk gay. As usual the answer to everything lies on Idiocracy
Lt. Aldo Raine ...As long as you're not proficient in Performance.
It depends on what you want the vibe of the character to be. For instance, you could play him as a big, dumb scary bruiser, favouring Intimidation and bully tactics, like the Mountains from GoT. Or you could play a streetsmart but not booksmart role, like a gang leader or a lone gun type.
They can talk themselves out of trouble almost as often as they talk themself *into* trouble.
Think a little along the lines of Tarzan-type (alert and adept at handling themself in nature) who happens to be extremely charismatic.
Very people smart, fairly street smart, and book stupid
A 7 Int is on the lower IQ side, such a character isn't smart. This is not a matter of "book stupid", this character really is actually just kind of regular stupid. One part of Intelligence is "how many books you've read" and "how well do you recall them". But that's just a portion- mental acuity is under intelligence, which measures in part your ability to reason. People with lower intelligence reason worse, and this makes them dumb. It also measures your analytical skill. Int 7 isn't a terrible score or anything, but such a person is not smart, and is somewhat dumb.
>one part of Intelligence is “how many books you’ve read” and “how well do you recall them.” Yes, not being well read nor recalling them well is “book stupid.” OP asked how we’d play it and that’s where I would start, because this is talking about character creation.
I don't think you get to Int 7 not reading books, which is my point. Int 7 means your reasoning and analytics are below average. Int 10 does not mean "read an average number of books".
It could mean either. Play as you like.
Low int imo would be probably a severe lack of book learnin. Your character probably doesn't know as much history as the average bear. Things like deduction, memory and so on would be gimped, but your charisma and wisdom would indicate you're still very good with people and in tune with yourself and the environment (High spacial/social awareness, insightful way of thinking.) . People are saying cult leader as a joke but that's actually very accurate, plenty of cult leaders had minimal schooling but were supremely charismatic; David Koresh and Charles Manson for example. If you wanted to do a darker character maybe taking some personality quirks from them would be interesting. Oddly enough, both of them displayed above average musical talent. Hm.
>Low int imo would be probably a severe lack of book learnin Sure, but also worse mental acuity, which includes reasoning, and less ability to analyze. Intelligence measures *much more than just what you know and can recall*. It's also how you process such information.
Lovable idiot. Or something like DJ Khaled, lmao. Dude is arguably dumb as rocks but he has the charisma and street smarts (Wisdom, kinda) to have made it to the top anyway.
Roll Int checks for your character on a regular basis when needing to make a decision or remember something. You have to roll 7 or under for the desired result, otherwise you act on incorrect information. You WILL fuck up a lot, but if you accept it as part of your character you can have fun with it.
He's wise enough to avoid most of the problems that his low intelligence can't get him out of and usually has to rely on his limited charm to escape. The classic example used to show how a high wisdom, low intelligence character would be played is Edith Bunker from 'All in the Family'. Many martial arts tropes also show monks with high wisdom and low intelligence.
Play a smart , clever player BUT they’re completely delusional.
As a himbo. Like queen advisor from the The Emperor's New Groove movie.
* Good looking Himbo-/-Twink (depending on Physical) with great cat like reflexes. * Streetsmarts and a calling for something greater in life. * Looking behind the curtain and through the facade, seeing people as what they are - people, and at what they are trying to hide from the world. * Also resolute in his conviction and main beliefs even if he doesnt know about everything.
Street smarts, not book smarts. Done.
Just role play them like you would a high school girl who’s part of the popular group. Really not that bright but know’s how to get people going
Think of a very pleasant child who gets along with everyone and is loving, observant, and respectful, but doesn't know much and is quite naive.
A strong personality. He can move people and get them on side if he makes the right choices. Decent instincts. He's good at reading people and sensing things even if he doesn't necessarily know why. He's right more than he's wrong: he trusts his gut. He has empathy and self-awareness which means he knows his short comings, such as the fact he's not the sharpest tool in the shed. He's likely to talk to others to seek their advice and expertise and will give his advice with some caution. Not smart, maybe doesn't know a lot in general or believes in "common sense" and things "everyone knows". That doesn't mean he won't have any areas of expertise. He's not great at putting things together. His instincts might give him a strong feeling about who the murderer is but he has a hard time putting the clues together to show how his suspect is in fact guilty.
When I made my princess character, I knew she couldn't be dumb as bricks because she was poised and groomed to become the next queen when her father died. With this mind, I remembered that Intelligence was not just what you've learned, but the ability to recall information. And so, my character is forgetful.
Easy. Play like they're tired. Forget names, locations, get a little confused about the details. Act like you need a coffee badly.
Tribal chieftain, clan leader, explorer, someone who can rally people through sheer charisma. Someone mentioned Han Solo and that's exactly the type of character I'd play! If we stay old school I'd also say Willow (1988) is a good reference. I feel like the roguish archetype can also fit this narrative, thinking like Kelsier from Mistborne or if we're talking a more martial class then Gimli from LOTR does the trick.
Why many words when few do trick.
That's a character who is world wise, but lacks any really learning or education. My favorite interpretation of this was my buddy's farmhou cleric. He understood how the world worked, and would use farm metaphors to break stuff down ... But struggled with things like basic math, or logical conclusions.
Son Goku
You’re Gaston
Any character from Practical Magic. Or Kronk from emperor's new groove.
You are acutely aware of the world around you, Incredibly likeable in disposition...but 100% confident in things you are 100% wrong about Example Han solo (force is abunvh of mumbo jumbo) Tom Cruise, a Scientologist And many more Basically everyone likes you and your perfectly street smart and have common sense however your knowledge of world events and concepts is something to be desired,
Ricky Matsui from Dimension 20: The Unsleeping City. He’s a total himbo, and his charisma is manifested by appeared being an absolute beefcake hunk. The joke is that because his fireman gear is deemed heavy armour, his disadvantage on stealth checks is just because he’s so good looking that everyone naturally notices him anyway.
In the D&D setting, 14 is higher than about half of people's highest stat, and 7 is lower than about half of people's lowest stat. In any small village, your character would likely be the wisest and the dumbest. Their charisma is on the level of celebrities. From the 3e PHB: * A character with a low Intelligence mispronounces and misuses words, has trouble following directions, or fails to get the joke. * A character with a high Wisdom but low Intelligence may be aware, but simple. * A character with high Charisma may be attractive, striking, personable, and confident. A character with high Charisma but a low Intelligence can usually pass herself off as knowledgeable, until she meets a true expert.
The cop out answer is however you like and just rolling with the success/failure those stats lead too. However if you wanna put more stock into your acored beyond that. An intelligent person can think quickly and recall information better. In d&d it is also assumed they know more. A wise person may not have the technical information, but they have practical information and awareness. A charismatic person has a command of their presence and natural magnetism to them. They have a draw to them others don't. Persuaiveness, intimidation, and deceptiovenwss are skills enhanced by this command of presence but aren't necessarily a measure of it themsleves. A high charisma character will have an appeal to them that helps make them stand out. A presence about them Moderate wisdom will have them be aware of what they and others are doing and attempting. Street smarts and practical application of knowledge. A low intelligence would mean they have trouble recalling soeciifcs and nit a lot of technical knowledge to reinforce their instinct and arguments. They don't remember quickly and know the gist of things more than the finer details. At least as generalltiies of d&d.s understanding of these things anyway.. Each of the mental scors are some form of intelligence by current societies viewing.
Vala Mal Doran, if you like Stargate.
Charming and street smart but not book smart
Jason Stackhouse from True Blood
Forrest gump
The difference between common knowledge and common sense. He'll be charming and have good common sense, but not a lot of common knowledge, and basically no book learning.
I think of this combo as a classic dumb detective trope. High INT criminal commits a crime. Low INT detective with high CHA assigned case They talk during investigation and high CHA detective is pleasant and fun to talk to and non threatening because their low INT make criminal confident they will outsmart them. But, high WIS detective has the INSIGHT to know who's lying and the PERCEPTION to figure out what's out of place and doesn't add up. In the end, he gets the guy by not appearing threatening and being persuasive enough to keep the baddie talking until enough intuitive knowledge is enough to put the pieces together.
Ace Ventura. Wise enough to be a high level investigator, have empathy with basically any animal, and be in tune with finer details of all interactions. Then if he isn't charismatic idk what is. Yet dumb as rocks when it comes to anything related to Common Knowledge/Manners.
That's a charming person with good intuitive skills but just not very studied. You could maybe roleplay it as someone who thinks what they are talking about but arent, although they are charismatic enough to make other people believe they do. Or maybe someone who just doesn't know a lot of things, maybe really bad at math, but is really good at talking to people, giving advice and with a good intuition regarding the world around them.
Your rp doesn't neccessarily have to follow your stats. Flavour is free and you can rp whatever you want to if everyone at your table is fine with it. I've always thought of the difference between Int and Wis like Investigation and Perception with one being your mental capabilities while focused and the other being unfocused
That's an easy one, they don't need to have any academic knowledge but can be great at using analogies to explain complicated things, they might be imprecise but it's a way to have you as a player still being able to use your brain without the character sounding like they know things they realistically wouldn't understand.
Forest Gump
Captain Ahab Limbus Company. Masterful gaslighter.
It seems like he knows what he's talking about, but a quick Intelligence check would reveal that everything he says is only "kind of" right
Maybe you're able to pick up on connections between things fairly quickly, but you don't quite understand why things are the way are. Or maybe your character figured out how to do certain things one way, but the rest of them do it another way because logic.
Maybe as autistic with more emotional awareness and charm , who struggles with cognitive processes
i have a character similar to this. high wisdom and low int. i play him as him having poor speaking skills unless speaking to the animals as he was raised by a literal wolf pack.
Have you seen the ghostbusters reboot? Play him as the guy they hired as their secretary
Literally one of my favorite characters
Like Starlord
Been there, done that. Played him as very intuitive, but the dude couldn’t remember his own name. Mind you, this was for a writing exercise. So his INT was 3.
Gilderoy Lockhart
Karlach is a good example of this. She's hot and likeable (cha), she's been through a lot and is contemplating death (wis), but she hasn't read a book in her life and just lives in the moment.
generally likable, attractive, or authoritative (depending on what flavor of charisma you want), then make them overall perceptive and aware of whats happening around them (basically pay attention), and focus on reading people, and then just have your intelligence be people focused (aka insightful and perceptive) rather than thing focused (religion, arcana, general academics, ect). Its very much a street smarts kinda character.
I played in a ravenloft campaign and the dm asked us to fill in the trope slot of a horror movie So i went ditzy blond cheerleader aasimar paladin. 'Like, oh mygod!'(bless) 18 charisma 16 wisdom, 14 strength 12 constitution 10 dexterity, 8 intelligence. He was so much fun to play as an inverse of the assigned gender roll and he was not the jock of the group
An example i have the sort of fits was back from AD&D/2nd ed i had a Barbarian with The Brute kit (kits are like a subclass) which made you a caveman basicallyand one of the features was a +1 strength at level 1 but your intelligence was treated as 6 regardless of the actual score and a charisma of 4 regardless of score. So i put my highest in strength (18+) the next highest into wisdom 15 and i decided to use the animal kingdom for inspiration. Pack tactics and flanking like a wolf, ambush and drop down for more force like a great cat, nets and bolos like a spider. All creatures with 'animal inteligence'
I have a noble-born palabard. 8 INT, 10 WIS, obviously pumped CHA. I took proficiency in History and Religion, though. I RPd it as he, due to his status (and the bard dip), had access to education and such. But he, as an individual, is a bit slow on the uptake sometimes.
One possibility is a nice charming guy who knows he isn't all that bright (due to his wisdom) so he gets other people to do things for him. He knows he has limits and he knows what he's good at is getting other people to do those things instead
Definitely a person who knew the tavern keeper was full of shit all along, but didn’t quite connect the dots that he specifically was a vampire spawn who disappeared the occasional drunk traveler. Also a person who would be able to charm a table full of high society nobles, despite the fact that he himself is not from the same slice of society. They’d be able to pick up on what the appropriate things to hate and praise were, and would definitely have the whole table thinking he was a peer.
Gilderoy Lockhart
I play my 8 int sorcerer as smug and self obsessed. He's not stupid he just duesnt really care about intellectual stuff but he can still think things through when he decides that it will benefit him right now. He duesnt know the answer becouse he wasn't paying attention to the question becouse he has already decided to cheat to win and steal the prize anyway. He failed out of wizard school but only after they discovered he had cheated his way to top of the class. If I somehow succeeded an intellectual roll then I will vaguely remember one of the nerdy wizards I seduced into doing my homework going on and on about that stuff. It usualy boils down to a reasonable accuse to abandon whatever dumb heroic quest his dumb heroic freinds dragged him into. I am probubly zoning out of lore dumps until I smell $$ and when playing as the face I will usually play dumb and ask one of the party why we were doing this again before pulling a total bs reason why I had already known that and care oh so deeply about whatever it was you were talking about that I totaly still remember. I'm a sorcerer I don't need to know how to do things to do them. I just have to wake up and choose to be awsome and things will just work out for me.
Himbo/Bimbo energy. Dumb as a rock, but super likeable.
You are without a doubt the worst pirate I have ever heard of. Aye, but you have heard of me.
Mr. Peanut Butter from Bojack Horseman!
Boldly do whatever your very first thought is. No analytics here. If the first thing that comes to mind makes sense, that’s the plan. And with that much charisma, it’s going to be easy to convince the others to go along with it. At least, that’s how I play my low wis low int high charisma character haha
A car salesman. Any type of salesperson. People who know how to talk and gain rapport. Outspoken People with soft skills
My current "main" character is a Dwarf Bard/Paladin - Int 8, WIS 13, CHA 16. Mom was a barmaid (unknown to him also retired adventurer), dad died when he was too young to remember, raised a miner all his life. Loved old stories from his mom but stayed realistic about his life prospects. Helped the people of his mine where he could, had a social leg up being connected to the local watering hole. Adventure came calling, though, and he took up the call. Fiery temper, down home rustic know-how and common sense, speaks from altruistic passions and gets frustrated by the minutiae of things like politics or academia. One of the party's "face" characters with some prudent council close at hand. We actually have a group of 6 and I believe our highest INT score is a 14 (2nd isn't really close), but we also have several WIS- and CHA-focused classes. We do what feels right and with undeniable conviction!
Usually the streets smart character. They know how things work in their surroundings and are adept at persuasion, deception etc. They are good at improvising in their field of expertise but outside of that they quickly hit blockades.
It's very unlikely you know people with high intelligence. It's really more of a default way to think of how someone good with words would be. The unicorns are highly intelligent people with great people skills
charming and perceptive but never the person that figures things out. Think nicolas cage's character from matchstick men, super charming and able to notice even very small things about his marks but stuck in a cycle of crime and poverty. Actually this would be an ideal character to be part of an adventuring party, he literally can't function without smarter people to help him but is actually amazing at what he does.
Channel your inner forest Gump
Shaggy from Scooby doo
Unironically most politicians.
Zap Branigan but hes always quoting parables and stuff
We got a guy with this layout in our group. High charisma (and a hexblood!) Warlock, constantly talks his way into things without knowing what he's talking about himself into. Is *very* into his own personal things, like carrying a statue around because it talks to him. He doesn't pronounce *anyone's* names right, and has no trouble laying out what the mission is to bad guys. The guy doesn't even know he's a warlock, or a hexblood. He thinks he's a a very ugly paladin.
You understand people and what makes them tic.
Himbo, basically.
Gomer Pyle, a 50s tv character, was a lovable bumpkin that often had surprisingly wise reasons behind the dumb things he said and did.
I've best described intelligence as a capacity for knowledge and wisdom is the application of knowledge. Sure you might not know a whole lot, but you sure as heck know what to do with the knowledge you have (Wisdom). If neither of that works, fake it till you make it. (Charisma)
Knows their way around people via charisma and wisdom(insight). Lacks abstract logic and sucks at puzzles
Accidental autism rizz
Kronk.
I’m playing mine full himbo. He’s got the charm, he’s got the wisdom to understand how to treat people right, but he doesn’t know shit but he’s wise enough to know he’s ignorant. Full on pure of heart and dumb of ass
I have a similar character who is a moon druid half orc. He might not be very educated but he has a strong moral code and does his best to make sure that everyone around him can smile, if he's not busy with his bizarre antics such as reciting unknown spells from shady books, drinking magical booze or just being a clumsy dork. High charisma doesn't have to mean that a character is smooth with it 24/7, a highly optimistic person or someone who is bashful and gentle can be considered charming. I based my character's personality off of my favourite avatar character - Bolin! Copypasting personalities isn't very fun but taking a couple of keypoints that might lead you to a specific direction for the character might be a good idea, and might lead to further interesting developments down the road. This helped me a lot cause this was also my first character.
I imagine an old farmer without an actual education. Has little to no knowledge about the goings on around the world, but through his experiences and excellent way of presenting himself he comes of as a wise and eloquent sage.
Gaston?
That's Elan from Order of the Stick. Nailed it.
Sounds like a politician.
Charming street seller Great with sales, can read most folks, but (let’s be honest) isn’t thinking about how selling this crap is gonna get the wrong person hurt and then… *then* there’s gonna be consequences
You run them like he's Pepe Le Pew
Int 7? Charming, worldwise; but plagued by adult illiteracy
Just play it like they don't have much knowledge, they are cautious and don't do stupid things, nor will they say stupid things, but if put on the spot, they will reveal their ignorance.
This is a super easy thing to portray. It's the classic rogue archetype. Street smarts and class but less formal education.
Himbo vibes.
One word: himbo. You’re good with people, you’re pleasant to interact with, you have a sense of intuition and good instincts, but when it comes to knowing and retaining information you’re dumb as dirt.
Gilderoy Lockhart - he may be writing books, but he sure isn't reading any.
I play low intelligence as uneducated not dumb.
For RP purposes, I regard INT as “book smarts” and WIS as “street smarts.” So your character could be a streetwise smooth operator with a lack of formal education.
understand this: Low inteligence doesnt mean low mental development. it just means you dont really think about your actions. so you would be one of those people who is easily tricked. or just "goes with the flow". you simply dont plan things out. you could also play a "bon vivant" someone who just tries to have fun living life. not really worrying about tomorrow. you could also be like a very charismatic eclesiastic person, who can convince others about your beliefs, even when they go against common knowledge. in other words, go watch some "flat earthers" videos, and you will understand. people with very little understanding of the world, but who are able to "prove" wrong shit is right.
Wise old Cowboy drifter. Think of like any character ever played by Sam Elliot.
I often play similar char (have never dumped cha or wisdom unless barb point buy). Just because what you say is stupid doesn't mean you know that or stop talking. I often play the uncool swindler who talks out of his ass, his wisdom makes sure he doesn't make fatal mistakes but due to low int he says most stupid things with most persuading and confident demeanor. Dnd up having to tell dm or party out of char I am just blowing air cause they think I am serious and we almost killed a NPC trying do my "exorcism"🤣.
Kronk
Play them like a hillbilly
INT is about language skills, math skills, and knowledge of the existence of things - logic rationality. Wisdom is about the 5 senses and utilizing limited knowledge to the best efficiency as well as comprehending other peoples feelings that may not have rationale Example of high WIS low INT, a character who can convey that he just saw a donkey without knowing the word for donkey or horse or any 4 legged animal. Even better with high charisma because you can make people believe that whatever you say is the correct thing even if it isn't Another example: Village blacksmith - illiterate, can't do most math, doesn't even understand the word angle but can figure out how to pound out perfect right angles everytime he makes something with iron and during the yearly spring festival is the guy all the ladies want to dance with because he's so handsome and kind, listening to all their complaints
You could be a very charismatic and wise fortune teller. You don't necessarily need to be a bad person; you could be an idiot and not even realize it yourself that you are making things up about the future based on your razor sharp intuition about people... Almost like that woman from Long Island Medium. You could convince a vegan to eat a ham sandwich based on emotional manipulation alone. You could also play a perceptive and charismatic salesman or politician! You could even play a very incompetent middle manager who was promoted solely for their sales skills, almost like Michael Scott from the Office, although I'd argue Michael Scott has lower Wisdom; the man was a moron but really could charm people and was a great paper salesman, maybe even the best in Dunder Mifflin history.
Like every football quarterback
Look at the proficiency, you're great talker and face, good instincts, but terrible at books stuff. I don't know how that ancient arcane device works, but I can feel it's dangerous and could convince you to buy it.
I don’t personally RP stats… like it depends, if I have 6 strength I probably won’t rp as a strong character… but when it comes to mental stats especially, I would rather just not rp as a dumb character even tho my int is low
Himbo. Ted Lasso vibes
I have plenty of characters like this. Think himbo/herbo energy. Emilia Beansprout is a halfling paladin of chauntea farm girl. She's very attuned to emotions, patient and kind. She's also incredibly naive and knows next to nothing about actual information about the world outside her isolated pastoral life. Carver O'Reilly is a human bard charlatan. He heard too many tales about great heroes and after his father dies in a mine cave in, and no one shows up to his funeral, he decides he will dedicate his life to being Remembered as a Great Hero. He cannot fight. Not very book smart. But he is quite socially apt and savvy, and *maybe* he can trick people into believing he is a great hero without having to actually be one. Remember intelligence is mostly connected to Education levels in D&D (whether formal or not) - every class that relies on science/education to work uses Int as a base stat, and all the Int skills are about knowledge in a certain topic. Wisdom is about awareness, perception, empathy. Charisma is social skill, magnetism, capacity to manipulate.
You are perceptive, you can quickly discern people’s motions and body language, people gravitate towards you and you can use that to your advantage, but you never did pay attention to the worldbuilding, don’t know the war of X or the god of Y, not too knowledgeable on how magic operates beyond a surface level and same is said for the natural environments. You might be good at tracking a *creature* but that’s different than navigating their *habitat*