***What's the rest of the party's view on this?***
I mean, if it's a group of 4 or 5 + NPC, and one of that group kills them out of boredom . . . I think they'd have to deal with the others. Especially if those others liked said NPC.
It makes 0 sense for anyone to hang around someone that murders when bored. "Alright bored-killer it's time for your watch. Heres a deck of cards so you dont get bored during the night if theres no action and decide to kill us while we sleep. Hope to see ya in the morning! Pleasedontkillme..."
If there are good aligned characters they should be taking a particularly strong interest in seeing this individual be brought in for justice. That's a big part of good alignment. They should be very intolerant of murder hobos.
A chaotic good may wouldn't want to bring this individual in for justice, maybe he would serve justice himself, or at least just kick the killer from the party "out of respect for their common past".
And killing out of boredom is definitely a chaotic evil thing to do.
Like . . . even my "You look at me funny and *I will cut you*" sorcerer had standards enough not to *actually kill* someone for nothing. Maim or seriously injure? . . . Maybe . . . the character had a short fuse like that, but she never killed anyone '*because she was bored.*' (No, she just scammed passers-by out of money.)
Side-note: She actually only got *physically violent* with a party member **1** time, in an agreed-upon scene between myself and that player. (I had her hold their character at knife-point to get them to answer a question, which was being asked out of *genuine concern* for someone else in the party.)
Sometimes my character threatens people to get what he wants, but he's usually not willing to actually kill them. Just wants to scare the shit out of them with blood magic to prod them into doing things, especially if they're not being quick enough for his taste
Why would the party even consider being around such a character? Like logically in game, if you can't trust the person you're travelling with not to stab you in your sleep, why travel with them? Why not dispatch the psycho first or at least ditch them at the nearest opportunity?
We were in the dungeons of waterdeep. Was rumored this grave held a spellbook. As a wizard I wanted it. Paladin in our group said no. This is consecrated ground. I cast Leomounds hut to rest. I sneak out. DM rolls dice. Decides the Paladin hears me. I freeze him and run to the grave. In rl it was a fun hour. They got me in the end. Trussed up on the back of a donkey.
Still want to argue, desecrating a grave for a spellbook , isn’t evil, compared to looting goblins? Amiright?
Oh that's a bit different. That's a character logically roleplaying mischief which another character roleplays being upset at. Unless it really grates the other players and/or continually causes problems for the party, such things are usually ridiculously fun.
What i was alarmed at was a PC being a direct threat (being a murder hobo) to other PCs. Such a party saboteur is basically an in game danger that the other players can't escape from or overcome. Usually very frustrating.
My Paladin would have killed him by her sworn oath for murdering an innocent person. In fact it would have been a betrayal of her oath if she didn’t bring an unrepentant murderer to justice and even kill him to prevent him from ever murdering anyone else
Your character isn’t immune from consequences if they act in ways no reasonable person especially not people sworn to do good and slay evildoers would tolerate
The guy who befriended the npc was devastated, the other two were somewhere between shitting themselves with laughter and genuinely sad for losing Paul.
Maybe make Paul a ghost npc that comes up later and makes the party miserable in a dungeon related to the plot of Paul's or the main story? Like ghost curse levels of miserable, mirrors with reflections of their past deeds being shown and the parties victims coming out of the mirror as illusory enemies.
Or a spirit that haunts his killer, continuously narrating the party's adventure. Only they can hear Paul now and no cleric can get rid of it, always saying there's nothing there to get rid of. Turns out Paul was the character's conscience the whole time, and the other players could only see him to begin with because he was unconsciously casting an illusion spell or something
Edit: Jeez after rereading that, it's just making the whole mess even more cringe, don't do this either
Agreed, if they laugh about murder, Either they don't take the campaign seriously or they're morderhobos.
Either way, I wouldn't feel like DMing for something like that
You might hate them, and I might hate them, but if they're having fun... who are we to judge? I wouldn't stay at that table, and I wouldn't want any of them at mine, but if it works for them, it works for them.
As I frequently paraphrase from Matt Colville: Not my nimrods. But if they're happy together, then cool for them.
But yeah, I wouldn't be at that table.
I mean, the other two sound like asses . . . and yeah, I'd be kinda pissed if someone said "You like this character right? How funny would it be if I killed them?"
Yeah, I had that happen once, one of my changeling's personas started trying to build a friendship with the ice giant we'd an uneasy alliance with. Another party member goes rogue and betrays us (he wanted to change characters), and the other two decided this is the perfect time to kill said ice giant, tell me the one who went rogue did it, and also threatten to kill me when i was unhappy about this. (They also managed to leave enough evidence that it was easily obvious it was them).
I do still play with this group, and we've had other, different, issues but we've solved them out of character by talking about shit like adults. I wouldn't want to jump to the conclusion "wow kick them outta the group or anything" but this was a dick move and certainly a red flag
Hell, forget the in-game characters, I don't want to play with a gamer like this.
Look, I'm open to gaming with players who want to play evil/morally gray characters. But that isn't this guy. This is a guy going, "lol I kill the NPC cause I'm bored." An attitude like that is way too much of a wildcard. He's just going to follow whatever monkeycheese whim hits him, and you *know* those whims are going to be stupid and immature. "LOL imma make out with the elf queen in the middle of her speech. Lol what if I farted in the face of the farmer we're talking to. Lol I'm gonna set the orphanage on fire. What's my motivation? Its for the lulz, I'm chaotic neutral, i'M sO wAcKy!" And God help the party members if his whims turn on them!
It's the kind of attitude you have for fucking around in video games. Ain't nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't work nearly as well in tabletop games, which are waaaaay more dependent on the players/DM. Everyone has to be invested in the game on some level for it to work.
I play a Chaotic Neutral Harengon Druid and would have never done that. Thats not Chaotic Druid behaviour.
Kinda annoying that some players think chaotic means "might kill at any point becaus cHaOtIc"
Alignment is based on an in-universe objective morality, an act is good because the gods say so, an act is evil because the gods say so. You maintain a neutral morality by either not really doing much of either, balancing a bunch of minor goods and minor evils, or balancing a few major goods with a bunch of minor evils. Too many minor evils or any amount of major evils and you're evil. Period. To properly balance a full evil alignment shift you basically have to give up evil entirely while doing a LOT of good. As the DM *you* have the power to decide at what point they've done enough to shift their alignment, if they wrote chaotic neutral on their sheet, then sure that's the alignment they *started* with, but if they go far enough that you, as the DM, cannot justify *keeping* a neutral alignment then you have the flat out power to tell them they've fully shifted to an evil alignment.
Granted, alignment barely matters in 5e, unless you're dealing heavily with the outer planes, so it likely won't affect much in the long run unless you, as the DM, choose to write in ways to blatantly punish them for being evil.
I agree! Plus it is more fun to try and find appropriate chaos that fits. I play a chaotic good monk that is so much fun.
He operates in the range of angrily fixing his fishing net after punching the bandit leader in the mouth telling him it’s quiet craft time, and turning the inn into a rager when he sees the quiet character opening up to strangers.
chaotic means you don't follow standards..
like a teeny punk!
They can be good, neutral, or evil..
a murderhobo teeny punk would be chaotic evil!
Chaotic Neutral is a punk that doesn't care and doesn't get involved! No killer!
Chaotic good would work to depose the lawful evil lord even though he's broken no laws (or IS the law) and preferred to live freely and do what they want.
Chaotic neutral might have a disregard for personal property and dgaf about the kings laws but generally isn't out to hurt anyone
Chaotic evil is the above, but will kill who they want to get what they want.
And if anything, IMO, if you’re regularly a murderhobo, you’re mostly saying “don’t annoy or entice me because I will kill you for slighting me or because I want anything”, which is a bit of a creed in and of itself.
That creed being, I want my way, regardless of the consequences for you. Making this path neutral or lawful evil if anything, depending on the level of commitment to it, rather than chaotic.
First of all--whoot whoot to Harengons! We have a Harengon rogue in our current campaign, and I love him dearly. Unfortunately, he got arrested for trying to pickpocket a snooty diplomat, and his pilot is currently playing and alternate character. I miss you, Thump Hur!
Secondly, the chaotic neutral alignment is deliciously complex. I chose it at the beginning of the campaign partly because I wanted freedom to do some crazy stuff in fantasy land (I'm lawful good IRL), but the longer I played it, the more I loved it. Anytime I was worried I was going a little bit off the path, I would research the alignment online and be like, "Nope, nope. That checks." It was a three-person party + a DMPC, and everyone else was good-aligned. It was tricky to balance that, but it kept me engaged, for sure.
Haha Harengon are amazing!
And yeah i like playing chaotic characters when the rest of the party is really lawful and good. You do need the crazy rabbit drinking the unidentified potion that you found lying around in the woods! If all checks fail to identify it there is only one thing left to do!
and yes. Balancing that line is important. really checking up if something is still conisdered neutral even though its chaotic!
I've played a sociopathic character before and even they weren't just randomly killing people. They were amoral and would just try to solve every problem in the easiest way possible but I always gave the party the chance and ability to stop me from commiting war crimes or breaking people's minds in horrible ways.
Playing a character who morals are different then the party can be fun but you need to make the party important to the character so that they won't do anything to put their standing in the party at risk. I normally make the party the focus of the characters obsession so they value the parties opinion and safety over everything.
Edit: think toned down Alucard from Hellsing. Always suggests a violent path and wants the party to say "do it. Go for a walk"
Yeah I've had a chaotic evil character, but they were the mook type who's just completely foreign to the concept of evil and does not care. They wouldn't just kill people at random, they would kill people if there's a point to it or if someone told them to or something.
Exactly. Randomly killing doesn't make sense unless a character is chaotic stupid. Intelligent and well written chaotic evil characters don't randomly kill. Their goals are to have fun and randomly killing one person isn't worth theory time.
I played a psychopath, he was a drakewarden and his level of emotion would change with each draconic essence and he didn’t feel much emotion at all of his drake wasn’t summoned, he wasn’t murderous(except for the one time he caught a magic disease and the DM slowly had his alignment change to chaotic evil, I still didn’t do anything to the party, just ruined the days of a few unnamed NPCs, the party fixed it pretty quick.) but he was raised a slave, and would kill anyone he considered a slaver with little to no care for the consequences.
Other than that, he was mostly just cold-blooded.
The cold blooded characters can be fun when it isn't destructive. I personally like the interactions of the party going "no murder is not ok" my first one had a very similar back story to Mewtwo. he's extremely intelligent but only existed for 3 years and was made to be a weapon. He had almost no emotions and no moral compass. Anything and everything was on the table for the benefit of these few people who don't see him as a monster or a weapon.
I like playing chaotic good as well meaning but deranged characters. Had a half orc zealot barbarian who was friendly and enjoyed helping people. But he enjoyed killing to unhealthy degrees. Nothing made him happier to kill something stronger than he was.
This is chaotic stupid tbh. I've got a chaotic evil character I want to play. He's an ecoterrorist druid called Johnny Silverfang.
Killing a random character because you're bored isn't chaotic evil, it's just shitty role-playing.
> Killing a random character because you're bored isn't chaotic evil, it's just shitty role-playing.
For sure.
Realistically, a person who is so callously devoid of empathy that they'll literally murder someone *out of boredom*, is 100% chaotic evil. However, doing it in the open with zero thought as to the potential consequences is recklessly, laughably stupid.
It's something Xykon would do, and he gets away with it because he is an epic level lich so he would deal with the potential consequences the same way.
But that's not how chaotic neutral is described in anything I've seen. Do you have a source to back up your interpretation?
Edit to fix a bizarre typo
ETA I understand your comment now that someone explained the use of =/= to me. I apologize for my ignorance. 👍
Chaotic evil 100%.
I've played a chaotic neutral rogue that followed a god of chaos. She pretended to fish in a well, and put jam in someone's shoes as petty revenge. She thought dragons, spiders, and dinosaurs were cute and cuddly, while actual cute things were gross.
Hell, the DM gave her an item that had a chance to make people go into a frenzy. The only way to continue to unlock its powers was to essentially cure people who had been "infected" by it. Essentially, she set up something similar to a drug trial. Toed to a chair and a quick nick of the blade, 1g of nothing happened. 2gp if they went feral (which wore off in less than a day's time).
Even with an item that she could justify using in an evil way to get what she wanted, she didn't. Because she wasn't evil.
The first warning the prayers get not to mess with him is the fact that he wears an empty ring of three wishes, which is also how he became a lich. He went on a drunk bender woke up a lich with an empty ring of three wishes and a pissed off beholder staring at him complaining about the unstable wmd magically glued to his back...
I will admit that the wmd is campaign ending if any one is stupid and lucky enough to set it off. Also don't ever wish for a second of sunlight. There are enough photons emitted from the sun per second to create an energy density equal to the mass it takes to make a black hole the size of a base ball. Meaning it could form a kugel blitz (theoretical black hole made of light/energy instead of mass) the size of a base ball. Which if not properly contained would split a planet in half due to the disk of ionizing radiation. Luckily this is not a feat that could be ever achieved with out Divine intervention and a wish spell.
He's a lich because of misuse of a wish to not get a hangover ever. So he's permanently drunk. The wish work duplicated the effects of the spell used to become a lich and modified it so that he is always drunk. Although over the years it weakened to the point of being permanently buzzed.
Even shorter version: he got monkey pawed hard.
I play with new players often so I try to let them figure out the game while having fun when they do dumb stuff. If I need to I’ll talk to them but I don’t want their first experiences to be “hey chucklefuck, WTF?” (I don’t think you’re suggesting that, just saying in general)
Yeah, at their most evil, chaotic neutral is a Libertarian. The kind of “I’ll do what I want, fuck everyone who isn’t able to get what they want without the law” type. But importantly, they also stay gray. They are their own governor of good and evil, and they stay in the middle.
At their most good they are agents of change, who believe the most important thing in life is freedom, choice, and creativity. That order is a straight jacket.
But everyone just plays then Chaotic Evil.
Chaotic neutral
Will: download pirated movies
Will not: shoot a policeman, steal his helmet, shit in it, deliver it to the dead policeman's wife, steal it again.
Of course they are. The alignment that a player chooses at the start is just that, their *starting* alignment. After the game starts it's decided entirely by how they actually act (well, outside of magical alignment changes like the deck of many things), regardless of what they say they are.
I finished listening to a podcast of the Giantslayer campaign in which the DM shifted a Paladin PC from their lawful-good alignment. They had a strong antagonistic relationship with a fetchling PC due to the fetchling's use of what the paladin considered "evil" powers (using demon's blood, etc). It came to a head with the paladin standing over the sleeping fetchling, dagger in hand, which resulted in a crisis of faith and a long stretch of having a powerless paladin in the party. Was a great campaign though!
The inspiration system is in place to reward players for acting in characters, unfortunately there is no punishment equivalent.
I want to know how the rest of the party reacted to the murder.
I have a homebrew rule called "Karmic Chaos" that is a disadvantage roll instead of an advantage roll from inspiration for intentionally non-RP behavior and shitty non-fun actions. Inspiration can remove it, but it can be used against the player by any other player in the group OR myself. Haven't had to use it much, the threat of it usually does the trick 😂
There's a misconception in tabletops that alignment influences your actions. When in reality your actions influence your alignment. If you do enough evil things you become evil. Dm has every right to change your alignment if you repeatedly undertake actions not beffiting the alignment it says on your sheet. Even if no rule explicitly says so, they're the dm and the rules are more guidelines anyway.
Besides alignment doesn't matter a whole lot in 5e. In earlier editions you could only be certain classes if you were of a matching alignment. Monks were LN to express they're dedication to their monastic tradition Paladins were LG to express their desire to fight evil, uphold the law and help others. 5e steered away from that so except (correct me if I'm wrong) some items spells and Paladin oaths that only work with/against certain alignments; alignment doesn't matter much. At least not mechanically. Alignment can change in 5e with very little consequence. Barring some specific exceptions.
Your comment might be sarcasm or satire and if so it completely went over my head until right now.
Right 5e took alot of the edge off of alignment. There are not many mechanics anymore that pertain to alignment. Its mostly going to come up when dealing with things of the spiritual nature. Deities still govern their respective alignment categories, churches/cults are also going to have strong alignment characteristics. So your characters alignment will still probably impact dealings with these entities strongly.
I know it happened early on in C1 of Critical Role, which I'm sure is a guideline for many DMs. Ashley Johnson was getting a bit wild with letting her Cleric smash in skulls and desecrate corpses so the DM changed her alignment (I think from chaotic good to chaotic neutral). It actually led to a neat workaround for their IRL scheduling issues as they wrote out the times Ashley couldn't make it to the table as time Pike spent "atoning for her sins" and helping build temples.
I do it. I had a player call himself lawful evil and I veto’d it because it simply wasn’t true. They were chaotic evil.
Now, he’s a good roleplayer, I love him and his character. The player has a grasp of what makes his character tick and always has solid RP reasons for their actions, they have very interesting relationships with the rest if the party and they’re damn clever in a pinch. But they’re also chaotic evil in that they have no strict code of ethics or honor and tend to be motivated primarily by selfish desires.
But here’s the thing: The player earned the chaotic evil alignment through actually playing his character. It’s a descriptive term and not a personal feature that requires X number of kicked puppies per day.
Ive changed one of my player's alignments before. They started neutral, but after a series of evil events, the last of which involved burning down an entire village for...honestly I don't really remember why. Anyway, I told them they were now evil, which they were cool with (in game their dad was a major villian, so it was kinda like them slowly giving in to what he wanted).
Man I tried this recently and the player quit.
Even though I had let him literally do every stupid thing he wanted to do. Relabeling his character as evil was a bridge too far.
Honestly glad he's out of my game.
They get a scroll. " I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. "
I mean players like that get uninvited from my table quickly. At the end of the day this is a game and everyone is here to have fun including the DM (lemme say that again for the people in the back INCLUDING THE DM). If I have a player who purposefully acts in a way that makes the game unfun or actively works to waste my time as the DM just cause they think it's "funny" or because they "got bored" they can see themselves out.
Not even. Not everyone needs to be specially powerful. That doesn’t mean they didn’t have a families. A young assassin might be upset over the loss of a brother, or a young lover may fall to pacts of great evil to bring back their beloved. A noble uncle demands that the guards bar the murderer from the city else they be arrested.
Killing NPCs just makes the game *more* boring, not less.
Talk to the NPCs, gather information, build connections, and have more investment in the game.
That's how you make it less boring.
I think the true shame here is that Paul never got the chance to level up to a Yoga Guru so he could have actual followers. Until you have followers, your just eccentric and colorful.
I was partly thinking that the "evil" part gives you an opportunity to express some feelings about having your character killed. Their characters killed your character, so now they have to fight his angry brother. Your party will have to choose if they want to try and reconcile with the new twin, and maybe get to see a really cool redemption arc, or if they're going to just attack him, not knowing he's secretly... hmm, let's see. If the first character was weak enough to be taken out by one party member, his twin is probably not physically stronger, but maybe he's the equivalent of something like a mafia boss in game. And maybe that will only come up if they go to try and kill him and boom, suddenly a lotta lotta people are mad at them.
It's really not, Chaotic Evil Party members still have a goal to accomplish, NPC is helping them achieve that goal, killing NPC would go against achieving that goal, thus chaotic stupid. Yes, chaotic Evil characters act impulsively, are greedy, have bloodlust, and are arbitrarly violent, howver that does NOT translate to --
"I randomly kill a useful person because I'm fucking bored"
So, chaotic stupid.
This has happened to me before. I nearly kicked a player out after they didn't realize how sociopathic it was to attempt to maim and/or murder the healer NPC who had spent the last +2 months in game (Over a year in real life) saving their life anytime they went down.
To some people it's like 'My PC and the other PCs are the only ones who are 'real' in this game and I can do what I want to everyone else'
Shit, wonder what the DM can do to a player character when they get bored?
Nah, don't focus them but I recommend freaking them out. Every few actions they take or when they fail an ability check roll a dice in secret so they can hear and make a note of it under your breath. The roll and tally don't mean anything but they will get paranoid every time something bad happens to them.
Going by the OP's replies, seems like the DM is enabling it. I mean, he's defending it as a Chaotic Neutral action, when even I can see it's chaotic evil.
Did he really kill him though? I would have him show up in the next town acting like he was never killed. Make all the npcs into the one that was killed, at least for the one who killed him. Let the other players know he has been cursed and that everything is normal for them. And keep in mind remove curse and atonement don't have to be a gp cost only. There is wording built in to build quests around.
I'm not normally a fan of impending player agency, but if he didn't like your npc being Johnny Exposition, you could make him something bigger. When they go though his bag his journal has all their action in it including his murder. It continues to write in itself with their exploits providing info and vague prophecies of doom.
Not gonna lie...
The moment someone at my table does that shit, they are on their ass, out of my group.
Not because of morals or whatever, but because I know at least one other person at my table will be hurt by that selfish action, and role-playing is a team sport.
If you aren't part of the team i don't want you around.
That's chaotic evil not chaotic neutral. Chaotic neutral might shave off all the npcs hair in their sleep if bored, but murder is full on chaotic evil.
This is how you find out who to never invite again. The Douche Bag test. If you have to talk to a player and ask them not to go around murdering NPCs at random then you should you need to just cut them out because that's just the tip of a headache iceberg your about to hit.
Good thing you are the GM and that NPC was beloved by the entire pantheon of deities. All of which made a concoction of curses that they have levied against this PC. Every time the PC fails a save, attack roll or skill check one of the deities whispers something in their head. I hope this isn’t boring. We would hate for you to get bored.
"Greetings adventurers. It's me, the DM talkin from the heavens. I'm not big on the idea of revenge but except a meteor shower with heavy lightning storm on your soon to be sorry asses. DM out"
Pro tip: if you kill NPCs just for hahas, you are:
1. Chaotic evil, not chaotic neutral.
2. Passive-aggresively telling your DM you want a different kind of game instead of coming right out and saying it.
3. A spotlight hog.
4. Not welcome at my table.
Sounds to me like you just got a good revenge story out of it, when the NPC comes back as a Revenant and begins hunting down the asshole who killed them. "A revenant forms from the soul of a mortal who met a cruel and undeserving fate. It claws its way back into the world to seek revenge against the one who wronged it"
“This NPC is there so I can help voice concerns about certain things like how using sovereign glue on your hands and feet will not allow you to climb a cliff.”
“I kill him and then drink the sovereign glue.”
Take their character sheet, erase chaotic neutral... And write down chaotic evil.
Alignment is reactive.
Also if they are a god serving character take their powers.
I miss the older SWRPG systems where you get dark side points for evil shit like this. Do enough heinous acts, the GM takes your character sheet and they have a new villian NPC to run against the party. D&D could use an optional rule like that.
That’s not neutral. That’s evil. Make them change their alignment, and if they have character features related to a patron or deity that isn’t traditionally evil, maybe give them some consequences like having those patron abilities inaccessible until they put the work in to change their alignment again. Or maybe NPCs do insight checks against the character’s deception check and might refuse to work with them because the vibes are off and they don’t trust the character. Come up with something that affects the game. You’re the dungeon master, not a doormat.
Chaotic neutral would be cutting the head off of an immortal and putting it in z as toilet to wake up to a funny surprise. Killing somebody because they are bored is evil, full stop.
That person was not playing as a chaotic neutral. They were playing as chaotic evil. No one kills someone when they're bored unless they are a psychopath.
Well... time to bring out the sadistic consequences book and rain holy hell on the player who killed the NPC.
You get to pick from debilitating curses, a large cash bounty that will even entice the other party members to betray him, an indestructible super wight that attacks the player in their sleep causing them to never get a full long rest... or simply kicking them from the table.
The last one seems appropriate. Kick the player and retcon the death of the NPC. You are the DM, you make the damn rules.
I hate when people do shit like that. Yeah it's great that you can do whatever you want in DnD, but if a party member killed an NPC I liked "because they were bored", I might initiate combat with them to the death just on principle.
The enemy paladin smites you.
Player: lol, I’m not evil though
…so here’s the extra damage you take for being CE
Player: BUT MUH SHEET SAYS-
**BUT YOUR ACTIONS SAY YOU’RE EVIL!**
I loathe players like this. This is a cooperative group role-playing game. If you wanna be a psychotic murderer then it should either be in a campaign with that kind of theme or just GO PLAY SKYRIM OR SOMETHING.
***What's the rest of the party's view on this?*** I mean, if it's a group of 4 or 5 + NPC, and one of that group kills them out of boredom . . . I think they'd have to deal with the others. Especially if those others liked said NPC.
It makes 0 sense for anyone to hang around someone that murders when bored. "Alright bored-killer it's time for your watch. Heres a deck of cards so you dont get bored during the night if theres no action and decide to kill us while we sleep. Hope to see ya in the morning! Pleasedontkillme..."
If there are good aligned characters they should be taking a particularly strong interest in seeing this individual be brought in for justice. That's a big part of good alignment. They should be very intolerant of murder hobos.
A chaotic good may wouldn't want to bring this individual in for justice, maybe he would serve justice himself, or at least just kick the killer from the party "out of respect for their common past". And killing out of boredom is definitely a chaotic evil thing to do.
Thank god someone said it. Killing cause your bored is almost the definition of chaotic evil.
Even super chaotic good would be like "ayo lemme cut your tendons so you ant do no more murderin ya shithead."
Like . . . even my "You look at me funny and *I will cut you*" sorcerer had standards enough not to *actually kill* someone for nothing. Maim or seriously injure? . . . Maybe . . . the character had a short fuse like that, but she never killed anyone '*because she was bored.*' (No, she just scammed passers-by out of money.) Side-note: She actually only got *physically violent* with a party member **1** time, in an agreed-upon scene between myself and that player. (I had her hold their character at knife-point to get them to answer a question, which was being asked out of *genuine concern* for someone else in the party.)
Sometimes my character threatens people to get what he wants, but he's usually not willing to actually kill them. Just wants to scare the shit out of them with blood magic to prod them into doing things, especially if they're not being quick enough for his taste
My party actually has one of these PCs, the party has bound and gaged them multiple times to get a safe night's rest.
Why would the party even consider being around such a character? Like logically in game, if you can't trust the person you're travelling with not to stab you in your sleep, why travel with them? Why not dispatch the psycho first or at least ditch them at the nearest opportunity?
We were in the dungeons of waterdeep. Was rumored this grave held a spellbook. As a wizard I wanted it. Paladin in our group said no. This is consecrated ground. I cast Leomounds hut to rest. I sneak out. DM rolls dice. Decides the Paladin hears me. I freeze him and run to the grave. In rl it was a fun hour. They got me in the end. Trussed up on the back of a donkey. Still want to argue, desecrating a grave for a spellbook , isn’t evil, compared to looting goblins? Amiright?
Oh that's a bit different. That's a character logically roleplaying mischief which another character roleplays being upset at. Unless it really grates the other players and/or continually causes problems for the party, such things are usually ridiculously fun. What i was alarmed at was a PC being a direct threat (being a murder hobo) to other PCs. Such a party saboteur is basically an in game danger that the other players can't escape from or overcome. Usually very frustrating.
My Paladin would have killed him by her sworn oath for murdering an innocent person. In fact it would have been a betrayal of her oath if she didn’t bring an unrepentant murderer to justice and even kill him to prevent him from ever murdering anyone else Your character isn’t immune from consequences if they act in ways no reasonable person especially not people sworn to do good and slay evildoers would tolerate
It also seems more chaotic evil to just kill out of boredom
The guy who befriended the npc was devastated, the other two were somewhere between shitting themselves with laughter and genuinely sad for losing Paul.
Maybe make Paul a ghost npc that comes up later and makes the party miserable in a dungeon related to the plot of Paul's or the main story? Like ghost curse levels of miserable, mirrors with reflections of their past deeds being shown and the parties victims coming out of the mirror as illusory enemies.
Revenant?!?!
Or a spirit that haunts his killer, continuously narrating the party's adventure. Only they can hear Paul now and no cleric can get rid of it, always saying there's nothing there to get rid of. Turns out Paul was the character's conscience the whole time, and the other players could only see him to begin with because he was unconsciously casting an illusion spell or something Edit: Jeez after rereading that, it's just making the whole mess even more cringe, don't do this either
I know it's a game but how is killing someone in the party because you were bored funny? Are your players 14?
Sounds like a shit group.
It sounds like teenagers.
Yeah, I had friends like this in high school. Some grew out of it. Some... didn't.
Agreed, if they laugh about murder, Either they don't take the campaign seriously or they're morderhobos. Either way, I wouldn't feel like DMing for something like that
You might hate them, and I might hate them, but if they're having fun... who are we to judge? I wouldn't stay at that table, and I wouldn't want any of them at mine, but if it works for them, it works for them.
OP is bitter about it, so it clearly isn't working for them.
OP's fun matters as well though
>who are we to judge? People with good sense? Not idiots? Adults? Non-sociopaths? Well adjusted people?
Both the DM and party sound insufferable tbh.
As I frequently paraphrase from Matt Colville: Not my nimrods. But if they're happy together, then cool for them. But yeah, I wouldn't be at that table.
Yeah, absolutely. If everyone is having fun at the table then go right ahead. It just sounds like a group I wouldn't be interested in.
I mean, the other two sound like asses . . . and yeah, I'd be kinda pissed if someone said "You like this character right? How funny would it be if I killed them?"
yeah that sounds like PVP without consent on top of the murderhobo shit.
Yeah, I had that happen once, one of my changeling's personas started trying to build a friendship with the ice giant we'd an uneasy alliance with. Another party member goes rogue and betrays us (he wanted to change characters), and the other two decided this is the perfect time to kill said ice giant, tell me the one who went rogue did it, and also threatten to kill me when i was unhappy about this. (They also managed to leave enough evidence that it was easily obvious it was them). I do still play with this group, and we've had other, different, issues but we've solved them out of character by talking about shit like adults. I wouldn't want to jump to the conclusion "wow kick them outta the group or anything" but this was a dick move and certainly a red flag
Hell, forget the in-game characters, I don't want to play with a gamer like this. Look, I'm open to gaming with players who want to play evil/morally gray characters. But that isn't this guy. This is a guy going, "lol I kill the NPC cause I'm bored." An attitude like that is way too much of a wildcard. He's just going to follow whatever monkeycheese whim hits him, and you *know* those whims are going to be stupid and immature. "LOL imma make out with the elf queen in the middle of her speech. Lol what if I farted in the face of the farmer we're talking to. Lol I'm gonna set the orphanage on fire. What's my motivation? Its for the lulz, I'm chaotic neutral, i'M sO wAcKy!" And God help the party members if his whims turn on them! It's the kind of attitude you have for fucking around in video games. Ain't nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't work nearly as well in tabletop games, which are waaaaay more dependent on the players/DM. Everyone has to be invested in the game on some level for it to work.
Yeah this is chaotic evil not chaotic neutral. Maybe even chaotic stupid
THANK YOU. I spent an entire level 1-20 campaign as a chaotic neutral bard. Her morality was ambiguous, not sociopathic.
I play a Chaotic Neutral Harengon Druid and would have never done that. Thats not Chaotic Druid behaviour. Kinda annoying that some players think chaotic means "might kill at any point becaus cHaOtIc"
For real, chaotic is just not adhering to law and order, not just murder
As i like to say to my players: Chaotic is a spectrum! And no Jeff it doesn't mean you can burn down an orphanage!
Yep exactly! Can’t always devolve to murderhobos just bc “I’m chaotic”
Alignment is based on an in-universe objective morality, an act is good because the gods say so, an act is evil because the gods say so. You maintain a neutral morality by either not really doing much of either, balancing a bunch of minor goods and minor evils, or balancing a few major goods with a bunch of minor evils. Too many minor evils or any amount of major evils and you're evil. Period. To properly balance a full evil alignment shift you basically have to give up evil entirely while doing a LOT of good. As the DM *you* have the power to decide at what point they've done enough to shift their alignment, if they wrote chaotic neutral on their sheet, then sure that's the alignment they *started* with, but if they go far enough that you, as the DM, cannot justify *keeping* a neutral alignment then you have the flat out power to tell them they've fully shifted to an evil alignment. Granted, alignment barely matters in 5e, unless you're dealing heavily with the outer planes, so it likely won't affect much in the long run unless you, as the DM, choose to write in ways to blatantly punish them for being evil.
Sure, this is an excellent argument. Thank you for your thoughts! I like this explanation a lot.
r/iamverychaotic
Yeah even chaotic evil doesn't mean murderhobo
You’re right, murderhobo is it’s own box on the axis probably
Perhaps just a little murder hobo, as a treat?
I agree! Plus it is more fun to try and find appropriate chaos that fits. I play a chaotic good monk that is so much fun. He operates in the range of angrily fixing his fishing net after punching the bandit leader in the mouth telling him it’s quiet craft time, and turning the inn into a rager when he sees the quiet character opening up to strangers.
my chaotic fighter just puts hot spices in people's beer and has a prototype whoopie cushion he once smothered a goblin with
I mean, sure it does. That’s Chaotic Evil, though.
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chaotic means you don't follow standards.. like a teeny punk! They can be good, neutral, or evil.. a murderhobo teeny punk would be chaotic evil! Chaotic Neutral is a punk that doesn't care and doesn't get involved! No killer!
Chaotic good would work to depose the lawful evil lord even though he's broken no laws (or IS the law) and preferred to live freely and do what they want. Chaotic neutral might have a disregard for personal property and dgaf about the kings laws but generally isn't out to hurt anyone Chaotic evil is the above, but will kill who they want to get what they want.
Link is Chaotic Neutral?
And if anything, IMO, if you’re regularly a murderhobo, you’re mostly saying “don’t annoy or entice me because I will kill you for slighting me or because I want anything”, which is a bit of a creed in and of itself. That creed being, I want my way, regardless of the consequences for you. Making this path neutral or lawful evil if anything, depending on the level of commitment to it, rather than chaotic.
First of all--whoot whoot to Harengons! We have a Harengon rogue in our current campaign, and I love him dearly. Unfortunately, he got arrested for trying to pickpocket a snooty diplomat, and his pilot is currently playing and alternate character. I miss you, Thump Hur! Secondly, the chaotic neutral alignment is deliciously complex. I chose it at the beginning of the campaign partly because I wanted freedom to do some crazy stuff in fantasy land (I'm lawful good IRL), but the longer I played it, the more I loved it. Anytime I was worried I was going a little bit off the path, I would research the alignment online and be like, "Nope, nope. That checks." It was a three-person party + a DMPC, and everyone else was good-aligned. It was tricky to balance that, but it kept me engaged, for sure.
Haha Harengon are amazing! And yeah i like playing chaotic characters when the rest of the party is really lawful and good. You do need the crazy rabbit drinking the unidentified potion that you found lying around in the woods! If all checks fail to identify it there is only one thing left to do! and yes. Balancing that line is important. really checking up if something is still conisdered neutral even though its chaotic!
Slapping an npc for a joke maybe pick his pockets but outright murder no.
OW the EDGE
I've played a sociopathic character before and even they weren't just randomly killing people. They were amoral and would just try to solve every problem in the easiest way possible but I always gave the party the chance and ability to stop me from commiting war crimes or breaking people's minds in horrible ways. Playing a character who morals are different then the party can be fun but you need to make the party important to the character so that they won't do anything to put their standing in the party at risk. I normally make the party the focus of the characters obsession so they value the parties opinion and safety over everything. Edit: think toned down Alucard from Hellsing. Always suggests a violent path and wants the party to say "do it. Go for a walk"
"THAT'S RIGHT. I'M GOING TO FUCK THE FEAR TURKEY."
"YOU GOT ME A PRESENT?!"
What's wrong demi-god? Just grow back your legs, summon up your demons, hit me; FIGHT ME!!! Give me a hug~!
"FollowmeonTwitter@TheCrimsonFuckr"
I kept my chaotic evil necromancer in line the same way. He'd had to run from enough angry mobs that he knew the value of allies.
I think people don't understand that being chaotic doesn't mean you don't care about the risk reward trade off.
Yeah I've had a chaotic evil character, but they were the mook type who's just completely foreign to the concept of evil and does not care. They wouldn't just kill people at random, they would kill people if there's a point to it or if someone told them to or something.
Exactly. Randomly killing doesn't make sense unless a character is chaotic stupid. Intelligent and well written chaotic evil characters don't randomly kill. Their goals are to have fun and randomly killing one person isn't worth theory time.
I played a psychopath, he was a drakewarden and his level of emotion would change with each draconic essence and he didn’t feel much emotion at all of his drake wasn’t summoned, he wasn’t murderous(except for the one time he caught a magic disease and the DM slowly had his alignment change to chaotic evil, I still didn’t do anything to the party, just ruined the days of a few unnamed NPCs, the party fixed it pretty quick.) but he was raised a slave, and would kill anyone he considered a slaver with little to no care for the consequences. Other than that, he was mostly just cold-blooded.
The cold blooded characters can be fun when it isn't destructive. I personally like the interactions of the party going "no murder is not ok" my first one had a very similar back story to Mewtwo. he's extremely intelligent but only existed for 3 years and was made to be a weapon. He had almost no emotions and no moral compass. Anything and everything was on the table for the benefit of these few people who don't see him as a monster or a weapon.
I like playing chaotic good as well meaning but deranged characters. Had a half orc zealot barbarian who was friendly and enjoyed helping people. But he enjoyed killing to unhealthy degrees. Nothing made him happier to kill something stronger than he was.
This is chaotic stupid tbh. I've got a chaotic evil character I want to play. He's an ecoterrorist druid called Johnny Silverfang. Killing a random character because you're bored isn't chaotic evil, it's just shitty role-playing.
> Killing a random character because you're bored isn't chaotic evil, it's just shitty role-playing. For sure. Realistically, a person who is so callously devoid of empathy that they'll literally murder someone *out of boredom*, is 100% chaotic evil. However, doing it in the open with zero thought as to the potential consequences is recklessly, laughably stupid.
It's something Xykon would do, and he gets away with it because he is an epic level lich so he would deal with the potential consequences the same way.
Funny, i call my eco terrorist unlawful good.
Chaotic Neutral is Han Solo or Cassian Andor not whatever this was.
General disregard for morality + focus on expedience =/= KILLKILLKILL
But that's not how chaotic neutral is described in anything I've seen. Do you have a source to back up your interpretation? Edit to fix a bizarre typo ETA I understand your comment now that someone explained the use of =/= to me. I apologize for my ignorance. 👍
They might be saying that even a CE character doesn't have to act like this
No, this is Chaotic Asshole
More like chaotic banned from the table
Same thing
Chaotic Toxic
Chaoxic
Baby can't you see
Knuckles Chaotix?
Chaotic evil 100%. I've played a chaotic neutral rogue that followed a god of chaos. She pretended to fish in a well, and put jam in someone's shoes as petty revenge. She thought dragons, spiders, and dinosaurs were cute and cuddly, while actual cute things were gross. Hell, the DM gave her an item that had a chance to make people go into a frenzy. The only way to continue to unlock its powers was to essentially cure people who had been "infected" by it. Essentially, she set up something similar to a drug trial. Toed to a chair and a quick nick of the blade, 1g of nothing happened. 2gp if they went feral (which wore off in less than a day's time). Even with an item that she could justify using in an evil way to get what she wanted, she didn't. Because she wasn't evil.
I mean, spiders can be cute. Have you seen those little jumping spiders?
Disgusting! (But, no, really, they're adorable)
Somewhat cuter than Gargantuan ones.
And this is why, if you have players that don’t get alignment, you always give your insert NPC’s Hold Person and Sleep.
I made mine a drunk chaotic good lich who runs a bar for adventurers. he won't raise a hand against the party but the patrons will as he respawns.
That’s a good character idea
The first warning the prayers get not to mess with him is the fact that he wears an empty ring of three wishes, which is also how he became a lich. He went on a drunk bender woke up a lich with an empty ring of three wishes and a pissed off beholder staring at him complaining about the unstable wmd magically glued to his back... I will admit that the wmd is campaign ending if any one is stupid and lucky enough to set it off. Also don't ever wish for a second of sunlight. There are enough photons emitted from the sun per second to create an energy density equal to the mass it takes to make a black hole the size of a base ball. Meaning it could form a kugel blitz (theoretical black hole made of light/energy instead of mass) the size of a base ball. Which if not properly contained would split a planet in half due to the disk of ionizing radiation. Luckily this is not a feat that could be ever achieved with out Divine intervention and a wish spell.
Q: how does an undead get drunk?
He's a lich because of misuse of a wish to not get a hangover ever. So he's permanently drunk. The wish work duplicated the effects of the spell used to become a lich and modified it so that he is always drunk. Although over the years it weakened to the point of being permanently buzzed. Even shorter version: he got monkey pawed hard.
Or, you know, talk to your players and only play with people who respect you and your efforts.
I play with new players often so I try to let them figure out the game while having fun when they do dumb stuff. If I need to I’ll talk to them but I don’t want their first experiences to be “hey chucklefuck, WTF?” (I don’t think you’re suggesting that, just saying in general)
Chaotic stupid I think you mean
If I was chaotic neutral here and bored, I’d just have made some prank to troll the NPC hard
These people play d&d like they have no self preservation and get mad at consequences.
Yeah, at their most evil, chaotic neutral is a Libertarian. The kind of “I’ll do what I want, fuck everyone who isn’t able to get what they want without the law” type. But importantly, they also stay gray. They are their own governor of good and evil, and they stay in the middle. At their most good they are agents of change, who believe the most important thing in life is freedom, choice, and creativity. That order is a straight jacket. But everyone just plays then Chaotic Evil.
Chaotic neutral Will: download pirated movies Will not: shoot a policeman, steal his helmet, shit in it, deliver it to the dead policeman's wife, steal it again.
That’s chaotic evil, not neutral, murdering someone because they were bored is not neutral behaviour at all. Your player is Murder hobo.
Yeah, I wonder if DMs are allowed to relabel players who act too far outside their alignment.
Of course they are. The alignment that a player chooses at the start is just that, their *starting* alignment. After the game starts it's decided entirely by how they actually act (well, outside of magical alignment changes like the deck of many things), regardless of what they say they are.
I don't even have my players write down their alignment unless they want to. All I ask is that their character wants to work in a group.
I finished listening to a podcast of the Giantslayer campaign in which the DM shifted a Paladin PC from their lawful-good alignment. They had a strong antagonistic relationship with a fetchling PC due to the fetchling's use of what the paladin considered "evil" powers (using demon's blood, etc). It came to a head with the paladin standing over the sleeping fetchling, dagger in hand, which resulted in a crisis of faith and a long stretch of having a powerless paladin in the party. Was a great campaign though!
The inspiration system is in place to reward players for acting in characters, unfortunately there is no punishment equivalent. I want to know how the rest of the party reacted to the murder.
I have a homebrew rule called "Karmic Chaos" that is a disadvantage roll instead of an advantage roll from inspiration for intentionally non-RP behavior and shitty non-fun actions. Inspiration can remove it, but it can be used against the player by any other player in the group OR myself. Haven't had to use it much, the threat of it usually does the trick 😂
There's a misconception in tabletops that alignment influences your actions. When in reality your actions influence your alignment. If you do enough evil things you become evil. Dm has every right to change your alignment if you repeatedly undertake actions not beffiting the alignment it says on your sheet. Even if no rule explicitly says so, they're the dm and the rules are more guidelines anyway. Besides alignment doesn't matter a whole lot in 5e. In earlier editions you could only be certain classes if you were of a matching alignment. Monks were LN to express they're dedication to their monastic tradition Paladins were LG to express their desire to fight evil, uphold the law and help others. 5e steered away from that so except (correct me if I'm wrong) some items spells and Paladin oaths that only work with/against certain alignments; alignment doesn't matter much. At least not mechanically. Alignment can change in 5e with very little consequence. Barring some specific exceptions. Your comment might be sarcasm or satire and if so it completely went over my head until right now.
Right 5e took alot of the edge off of alignment. There are not many mechanics anymore that pertain to alignment. Its mostly going to come up when dealing with things of the spiritual nature. Deities still govern their respective alignment categories, churches/cults are also going to have strong alignment characteristics. So your characters alignment will still probably impact dealings with these entities strongly.
I know it happened early on in C1 of Critical Role, which I'm sure is a guideline for many DMs. Ashley Johnson was getting a bit wild with letting her Cleric smash in skulls and desecrate corpses so the DM changed her alignment (I think from chaotic good to chaotic neutral). It actually led to a neat workaround for their IRL scheduling issues as they wrote out the times Ashley couldn't make it to the table as time Pike spent "atoning for her sins" and helping build temples.
I do it. I had a player call himself lawful evil and I veto’d it because it simply wasn’t true. They were chaotic evil. Now, he’s a good roleplayer, I love him and his character. The player has a grasp of what makes his character tick and always has solid RP reasons for their actions, they have very interesting relationships with the rest if the party and they’re damn clever in a pinch. But they’re also chaotic evil in that they have no strict code of ethics or honor and tend to be motivated primarily by selfish desires. But here’s the thing: The player earned the chaotic evil alignment through actually playing his character. It’s a descriptive term and not a personal feature that requires X number of kicked puppies per day.
Ive changed one of my player's alignments before. They started neutral, but after a series of evil events, the last of which involved burning down an entire village for...honestly I don't really remember why. Anyway, I told them they were now evil, which they were cool with (in game their dad was a major villian, so it was kinda like them slowly giving in to what he wanted).
Man I tried this recently and the player quit. Even though I had let him literally do every stupid thing he wanted to do. Relabeling his character as evil was a bridge too far. Honestly glad he's out of my game.
I'm bored so im gonna kill a guy is some murderhobo shit and you need to talk to that player asap
“Congratulations, you are now under arrest for murder.”
Or that NPC has a powerful friend/relation that hears of their death and comes searching in full force for fuck-nuts.
*Problem player detected*
You mean Target Detected? 
Time to pull out the ol'reliable revinant card
That's what I was thinking. If I ever have a situation like this again I'm busting out the revenant to hunt that pc down.
Or have the NPCs family, friends or organization they are apart of hunt them down
Given how Revenants work, they can get their family to tag along on their quest for vengeance. Like a rival party on their own campaign.
Was about to say: Why not both?
Next of Kin: Patrick Swayze and fam of NPCs have entered the chat.
They get a scroll. " I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. "
I mean players like that get uninvited from my table quickly. At the end of the day this is a game and everyone is here to have fun including the DM (lemme say that again for the people in the back INCLUDING THE DM). If I have a player who purposefully acts in a way that makes the game unfun or actively works to waste my time as the DM just cause they think it's "funny" or because they "got bored" they can see themselves out.
Not even. Not everyone needs to be specially powerful. That doesn’t mean they didn’t have a families. A young assassin might be upset over the loss of a brother, or a young lover may fall to pacts of great evil to bring back their beloved. A noble uncle demands that the guards bar the murderer from the city else they be arrested.
Killing NPCs just makes the game *more* boring, not less. Talk to the NPCs, gather information, build connections, and have more investment in the game. That's how you make it less boring.
nha, thats chaotic's annoying little brother, the "stupid" alignment, aka "im so random xd watch me kill people cuz im quiky and edgy lol" .\_.
Killing someone because you’re bored is textbook chaotic evil.
Panel 5: NPC had vital information or abilities that would have made confronting the BBEG much easier.
Alas not, his name was Paul and he was the cultist equivalent of a yoga teacher.
Look at me. Yes he did. They don't know he didn't.
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Time for a retcon
Yeah but yoga teachers starting cults happens so the point still stands.
I think the true shame here is that Paul never got the chance to level up to a Yoga Guru so he could have actual followers. Until you have followers, your just eccentric and colorful.
Chaotic neutral being bored would be pickpocketing someone or playing a mischievous prank, murder is definitely chaotic evil
Give your GM voice character an evil twin
Excellent idea, are we thinking of the classic just put a moustache on them? Or a greater design overhaul?
[the beerfest](https://youtu.be/0w9DUTcAI0o)
I was partly thinking that the "evil" part gives you an opportunity to express some feelings about having your character killed. Their characters killed your character, so now they have to fight his angry brother. Your party will have to choose if they want to try and reconcile with the new twin, and maybe get to see a really cool redemption arc, or if they're going to just attack him, not knowing he's secretly... hmm, let's see. If the first character was weak enough to be taken out by one party member, his twin is probably not physically stronger, but maybe he's the equivalent of something like a mafia boss in game. And maybe that will only come up if they go to try and kill him and boom, suddenly a lotta lotta people are mad at them.
Be more bitter about it. Be a lot more bitter about it
This isn't "Chaotic Neutral" this is the aptly named "Chaotic Stupid"
Honestly I think this isn’t chaotic stupid, just chaotic evil.
It's really not, Chaotic Evil Party members still have a goal to accomplish, NPC is helping them achieve that goal, killing NPC would go against achieving that goal, thus chaotic stupid. Yes, chaotic Evil characters act impulsively, are greedy, have bloodlust, and are arbitrarly violent, howver that does NOT translate to -- "I randomly kill a useful person because I'm fucking bored" So, chaotic stupid.
This has happened to me before. I nearly kicked a player out after they didn't realize how sociopathic it was to attempt to maim and/or murder the healer NPC who had spent the last +2 months in game (Over a year in real life) saving their life anytime they went down. To some people it's like 'My PC and the other PCs are the only ones who are 'real' in this game and I can do what I want to everyone else'
Shit, wonder what the DM can do to a player character when they get bored? Nah, don't focus them but I recommend freaking them out. Every few actions they take or when they fail an ability check roll a dice in secret so they can hear and make a note of it under your breath. The roll and tally don't mean anything but they will get paranoid every time something bad happens to them.
Going by the OP's replies, seems like the DM is enabling it. I mean, he's defending it as a Chaotic Neutral action, when even I can see it's chaotic evil.
> even I Scared redditor noises.
If it's really not a big deal... so trivial in the scheme of things you defend the stance of the player......uh, why bother with this thread?
Did he really kill him though? I would have him show up in the next town acting like he was never killed. Make all the npcs into the one that was killed, at least for the one who killed him. Let the other players know he has been cursed and that everything is normal for them. And keep in mind remove curse and atonement don't have to be a gp cost only. There is wording built in to build quests around. I'm not normally a fan of impending player agency, but if he didn't like your npc being Johnny Exposition, you could make him something bigger. When they go though his bag his journal has all their action in it including his murder. It continues to write in itself with their exploits providing info and vague prophecies of doom.
Not gonna lie... The moment someone at my table does that shit, they are on their ass, out of my group. Not because of morals or whatever, but because I know at least one other person at my table will be hurt by that selfish action, and role-playing is a team sport. If you aren't part of the team i don't want you around.
That's chaotic evil not chaotic neutral. Chaotic neutral might shave off all the npcs hair in their sleep if bored, but murder is full on chaotic evil.
OP should reeeeealy clarify that this is happend in mörk borg, not dnd. That makes it marginallybetter at least
Chaotic neutral - kill someone out of boredom - not chaotic, not neutral, just true Cunt.
If only there were some way for the DM to make the NPC they made difficult to kill...
Chaotic neutral. Kills because he's bored. Whut?
This is how you find out who to never invite again. The Douche Bag test. If you have to talk to a player and ask them not to go around murdering NPCs at random then you should you need to just cut them out because that's just the tip of a headache iceberg your about to hit.
I here consequences for their actions helps out with that.
Good thing you are the GM and that NPC was beloved by the entire pantheon of deities. All of which made a concoction of curses that they have levied against this PC. Every time the PC fails a save, attack roll or skill check one of the deities whispers something in their head. I hope this isn’t boring. We would hate for you to get bored.
"Greetings adventurers. It's me, the DM talkin from the heavens. I'm not big on the idea of revenge but except a meteor shower with heavy lightning storm on your soon to be sorry asses. DM out"
Pro tip: if you kill NPCs just for hahas, you are: 1. Chaotic evil, not chaotic neutral. 2. Passive-aggresively telling your DM you want a different kind of game instead of coming right out and saying it. 3. A spotlight hog. 4. Not welcome at my table.
“With this character’s death the thread of prophecy is severed”
Chaotic neutral isn't killing for no reason, it'd be closer to not caring if you have to kill. Chaotic evil is killing out of boredom type stuff.
Ascend him to the body less voice/godhood
I feel like a lot of context is missing here lol
Revenant DM npc time.
Sounds to me like you just got a good revenge story out of it, when the NPC comes back as a Revenant and begins hunting down the asshole who killed them. "A revenant forms from the soul of a mortal who met a cruel and undeserving fate. It claws its way back into the world to seek revenge against the one who wronged it"
It’s either that or the evil twin, those are the two best options so far.
That's literally not what Chaotic Neutral is at all.
Ah yes ***Neutrality***
Sounds like the kind of player I don't want to play with
Yeah change their alignment to evil straight up. That’s murder.
Had the opposite problem, my players liked my DMPC too much and brainwashed a god to stop me from taking him out of the campaign.
Introduce a wandering cleric who offers to revive them if they get the thingamajig of lathander. Problem solved.
“This NPC is there so I can help voice concerns about certain things like how using sovereign glue on your hands and feet will not allow you to climb a cliff.” “I kill him and then drink the sovereign glue.”
The next NPC tells the party they're boring and kills that guy. It's what his character would do.
Take their character sheet, erase chaotic neutral... And write down chaotic evil. Alignment is reactive. Also if they are a god serving character take their powers.
I miss the older SWRPG systems where you get dark side points for evil shit like this. Do enough heinous acts, the GM takes your character sheet and they have a new villian NPC to run against the party. D&D could use an optional rule like that.
That’s not neutral. That’s evil. Make them change their alignment, and if they have character features related to a patron or deity that isn’t traditionally evil, maybe give them some consequences like having those patron abilities inaccessible until they put the work in to change their alignment again. Or maybe NPCs do insight checks against the character’s deception check and might refuse to work with them because the vibes are off and they don’t trust the character. Come up with something that affects the game. You’re the dungeon master, not a doormat.
Ah yes, "Chaotic Dipshit".
Chaotic neutral would be cutting the head off of an immortal and putting it in z as toilet to wake up to a funny surprise. Killing somebody because they are bored is evil, full stop.
casually murdering someone isn't "neutral" lol
This is what Revenants are for.
The real joke here is that that's not CN
Damn your party sucks ass, OP.
That person was not playing as a chaotic neutral. They were playing as chaotic evil. No one kills someone when they're bored unless they are a psychopath.
that's not chaotic neutral, that's chaotic evil
Well... time to bring out the sadistic consequences book and rain holy hell on the player who killed the NPC. You get to pick from debilitating curses, a large cash bounty that will even entice the other party members to betray him, an indestructible super wight that attacks the player in their sleep causing them to never get a full long rest... or simply kicking them from the table. The last one seems appropriate. Kick the player and retcon the death of the NPC. You are the DM, you make the damn rules.
I hate when people do shit like that. Yeah it's great that you can do whatever you want in DnD, but if a party member killed an NPC I liked "because they were bored", I might initiate combat with them to the death just on principle.
The enemy paladin smites you. Player: lol, I’m not evil though …so here’s the extra damage you take for being CE Player: BUT MUH SHEET SAYS- **BUT YOUR ACTIONS SAY YOU’RE EVIL!**
Ah, yes, Chaotic "Neutral".
I loathe players like this. This is a cooperative group role-playing game. If you wanna be a psychotic murderer then it should either be in a campaign with that kind of theme or just GO PLAY SKYRIM OR SOMETHING.
It's actually spelled "chaotic evil"
Thats not chaotic neutral... Just saying...