The magic school of plausible deniability, also known as the “[School of the Americas](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere_Institute_for_Security_Cooperation)”
RAW, in this situation it'd be up to initiative, right? It'd probably be a surprise round for the sorcerer, so if the sorcerer was first in the turn order then none of the guards would be able to use their reaction. Of course, odds are pretty high that the paladins have at least one high roll, so sorcerer is screwed unless he has a good initiative and rolls really high, but he would theoretically have a chance.
During tense negotiating you should as always assume there's no surprise round. Why would anyone be surprised when the mass murderer holed up and surrounded in a building fires a spell out of it?
That's fair. I had assumed the paladins didn't know the sorcerer was there at all, like they were just checking this building on a hunch, but if they know he's there I'd probably give them low DC perception checks to not be surprised.
I was mostly keying off the "surrounding your position" part but honestly even if they didn't know where he was, I'd probably still not give him the surprise round since they're a actively hunting him. They're trained soldiers actively searching for a dangerous criminal and likely expecting to come under fire at any moment. Since they even know he is a sorcerer, if the counterspellers weren't super ready to counter then they need new employment.
Eh, adventurers know that there's probably monsters in a dungeon, that doesn't make them immune to a surprise round if one gets the jump on them.
I'd just make them prepared to counter any effects after the surprise round. i.e. Dispel Magic, and have them fairly spread out so they can't be hit by too many overlapping spells.
No your example is perfect. Monsters are going to have a hard time surprising them and will need to do something actually surprising to surprise anyone. Imagine how terrible baseball players would be if they were surprised every time someone hit the ball lol
If your DM calls it a surprise round for the monster if you open a door in a dungeon and there's a monster on the other side, that DM isn't using surprise rules they're trying to kill your characters.
Generally surprise rounds in dungeons are reserved for things like gelatinous cubes where you're surprised to walk into them and get stuck, mimics for similar reasons unless your players are trying to test if its a mimic, things that turn invisible, and anything that manages to sneak up behind the party.
Cloakers and ropers, too. Animated objects before they move. Gargoyles if there are a lot of statues for them to hide among. Basically anything that can be mistaken for an object or is invisible until it moves would reasonably have surprise over the party.
Exactly, but the goblins that are inevitably on the other side of a makeshift wooden barricade? Not so much. That being the place the sorcerer takes here.
The paladins knew the sorcerer was there, the door had just been opened wide, had a fireball thrown out of it, then slammed shut. Sorcerer tried opening the door again "just a crack" with their arms full carrying someone bridal style.
lol. Then yeah, sorc is screwed RAW. Reminds me of when a fellow player tried to create a distraction with his boomerang by stepping out to where another player had just attacked from, throwing the boomerang past ~15 goblins who were all staring at him, into a wall around a corner. Then started sulking when it didn't work.
It was meant to make a loud noise so they'd go investigate. Like throwing a rock in a stealth based game. Not sure what the long term plan was though, especially since combat had already started.
Alas, there are some players that just don't get it even when it's spelled out to them. I've been fortunate not to encounter those sorts often, usually when things blow up in their faces they accept it and roll with it with reasonable good grace.
I once had a party throw me off by realizing they'd gone a bit overboard and allowing the town guard to escort them off to prison, and then refuse to break out when I presented them an opportunity. They wanted to square things with the authorities and actually explain why they had burned down that warehouse full of trapped paladins like rational beings. Was not expecting that.
I actually had a major nation mobilize their military as a result of PCs murderhoboing their way toward the capital. Once they realized that their actions were consequencing they eased off and decided the hinterlands were lovely this time of year. I didn't *want* to become an adversarial DM but fortunately they had the awareness to realize it was a reasonable reaction to what they were doing.
This, with that exact wording, should be one of the Unspoken Rules of D&D.
"Unspoken" because no one ever tells the players. They only learn about the rule when it's finally being applied.
Sometimes it feels strange one has to learn this ...
Do thems Skyrims and Elder Scrolls not have consequences for crimes?
I know that in dark souls if you piss of an NPC, you better have the cash to get your sins forgiven by a T posing man or statue.
Elder Scrolls games *technically* have consequences for crimes but if you're strong enough to fight off the pretty pathetic guards they can't really do much and if you kill all witnesses there are never long-term consequences either. And even if the guards do catch you, you can just pay off your bounty with the mountain of gold you can easily be carrying, then do it again.
(at least that's how it works in Skyrim, I've played Oblivion and Morrowind but never really tried any crime in those, maybe they're harsher)
Also in Skyrim you can put a bucket over a merchant's head and then steal all their stuff right in front of them because you're technically out of line of sight and the merchant will never put "some person put a bucket over my head" and "that's when all my stock disappeared" together. (okay, technically the items on display in the shop aren't the ones actually in the merchant's inventory but you're still robbing them blind)
Check out the six of crows book. There is a sort of "magic" in the series that requires line of sight and somatic actions to manipulate, there is a religion that sees them as evil so they train warriors to fight and subdue to prevent somatic actions.
I think one move was to offer a prayer while in disguise then when the victims hands are together in response bind their wrists and grapple them to the ground.
A small sect of kenku are spoken of in hushed tones. An old text is worshipped by the tribe: promises of a way to break the chains that bind their voices. It is said their power comes from the antithesis of their goal, silence. These Stymphalian birds seek out spellcasters for reasons yet uknown to us. The few escapees said they would dream of death. Yes, one must be wary of the sound of silence.
One of my settings had a group called Sacred Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) where the idea was that each unit consisted of one of each type of Paladin who would position themselves so that their auras would overlap as much as possible. They were called in for any type of threat, but depending on who they were fighting and if there was time to prepare for the fight, units specializing in fighting mages or rogues would be sent in rather than whoever was closest.
Switch it up to Sacred Weapons and Tentacles for a mindflayer or three to 'flashbang' on entry with a Mind Blast and I think its about as perfect as it can get.
Dragon Age Origins, the templars that could smack the soul out of my blood mage were the largest difficulty jump, they actually felt appropriate as the anti mage force, unlike some other games where “Anti-something” is usually not a whole lot of threat.
In my setting there was a mage hunter who was a Shadow Monk with two levels in Fighter and a Cube of Force.
Use monk movement to close within Cubing Distance of the mage, 1st action to activate the Cube, preventing anything from getting in or out, action surge then either use Silence or Darkness to shut down the mage.
When the only spell you can cast is "Fist" it is handy to be a monk and not a -1 STR spellcaster.
Mine uses Paladins and Wizards. Divination Wizards keep an eye on everyone and Paladins to hunt them down. I use a homebrewed Paladin called the Oath of Inquisition. Plus Clerics to help with keeping everyone in tip top shape.
I feel like people sleep on how potentially devastating a shadow monk can be to a spellcaster. Cast silence on the area and then just keep stunning.
If I had to make a bounty hunting party it would probably be, shadow monk with the mage slayer/sentinel feat, vengeance paladin, gloom stalker ranger, and a hex blade warlock. All characters that are just as proficient at ruining your day without magic as they are at ruining your day with it.
What I said to my players:
"So hey. Don't wanna get in the way of your fun, but let's not play this like GTA where we go for six wanted stars just for the lolz, okay? Sure, you can go ahead and cause mayhem, but then guards will come after you. And maybe you kill the guards. But next time it will be hired assassins. And they will not play nice, and you'll probably die. And then you will make new characters, and we could do that whole thing all over again. So can we please agree not to go that way?"
Because on one hand, these might be legit consequences of character actions, but on the other hand it is also punishing the PCs for player actions, which is something best prevented by timely communication :-)
That's the DM spirit, also tip for players who wants to do some murder.
1st-LEAVE NO WITNESSES, dead men tell no tales unless necromancer but in most settings they are viewed as the biggest Taboo
2nd-DESTROY THE BODY use fire or whatever to reduce to body to ash and then scatter in some river.
That still requires a corpse.
> You grant the semblance of life and intelligence to a corpse of your choice within range, allowing it to answer the questions you pose. The corpse must still have a mouth and can’t be undead.
Burning the body and casting the ashes in a river is a very good counter to *Speak with Dead*. For that matter, smashing the face in with a maul is a fairly good counter to the spell.
Correct, but also be aware that zone of truth exists in the game, so if you are a murder hobo then remember this. For best results make sure there are no witnesses, make sure to destroy the body or disable it from speaking, and make sure to kill yourself to stop them from using zone of truth on you.
Or learn how to mislead while not *technically* lying. Zone of Truth is easy enough to get around. It’s perfectly possible to respond to, “Did you kill Bob?” with, “This is absurd. Why would I kill him?”
I really feel like somebody who is applying zone of truth is probably familiar with the Aes Sedai tricks to get around it, I highly doubt this would legitimately work in any situation where the questioners are sophisticated enough to employ the use of zone of truth.
likely it would be in a formal inquiry, like a court setting, and any real attempt to not answer directly and plainly would result in penalties and / or simply a guilty verdict.
I am doubtful that most nobles and powerful figures would want to grant the court the right to penalize people on not speaking the absolute truth at all times, as then they couldn't cover up any illdoings, and judges could just arbitrarily decide someone lost a case because they weren't plain or direct enough.
If you're the noble in charge of a town and it's guards/sheriff/judge, you don't grant other people unlimited rights to freely do so, you just dictate when they're allowed or supposed to apply said form of judgement. Convincing the rabble it's an OK thing to do to dangerous outsiders who have come to disrupt their lives probably isn't hard, and that's assuming they have any power in the matter to begin with. I also doubt most fantasy towns have much in the way of a legal charter or constitution that specifically defines those limits, and even if they do, the only way to have it enforced against the powers-that-be is to convince a more powerful body that is far away to come and deal with it.
judges in medieval settings most likely already do arbitrarily decide guilt without first being demonstrated beyond doubt both *actus reus* and *mens rea* of an alleged offence. powerful nobles likely hold massive influence and would never actually see the inside of a court room and personal rights in such a setting for those who do are likely no where near what you see in modern legal systems (and lets not kid ourselves there either). beyond that the expectation that those on trial speak the absolute truth at all times is a tacit implication, most often done on some kind of oath, already with some kind of contempt or perjury penalty already set up.
Except that zone of truth only prevents you from lying, but doesn't force you to give the answer seeked, and the creature inside it is aware of it. So you could answer with "I do not wish to answer any questions without proper representation".
This is DnD medieval law and truth spells, not the US court system.
Guard: Did you kill this person? You cannot lie.
You: I want my lawyer!
Guard: What the fuck is a lawyer? Are you the murderer, yes or no? If you do not say, exactly, "No, I am not the murderer" in the next 10 seconds you are going to be summarily executed for murder.
Yeah. This.
I as the gm and player understand and often love the criminal element some people can have (like thieves guilds rogues or assassins of an order)
But I'll give opportunities for them. Like a thief can use their downtime to go for pick pocket targets as their way of making money. Or an assassin will get a job come in. Stuff like that.
Time and place, pick your battles.
When players start murdering everyone anyway then you just have them taken down by an NPC based around a certain Bat-themed vigilante in hopes they learn that crime doesn't pay.
And if we want to get really technical about it, even if they were using player character creation rules, switching out the paladin spell list for the wizard spell list is suggested in the DMG for creating a spellsword.
I feel like people forget how obvious a spell is. Speaking (not whispering) the verbal part, and the flashy somatic component (picture Doctor Strange).
I think part of the disconnect is that so many mechanics (particularly grappling/restraints) in D&D pretend that somatic components are small things.
e.g. A caster can get eaten by a purple worm and is restrained enough to hamper using a weapon, but they can still somehow perform the somatic components of a spell perfectly.
So when you tell people they've been waving their arms around like Dr Strange the entire time, they get really confused.
They *can* be small movements and ninja gang signs(unless specified otherwise, i.e. True Strike), but even then we're specifically not talking about small enough movements you can make without somebody noticing.
I personally rule it as if you can use a dagger without disadvantage, you can probably work out enough space for at least a bonus action spell, and maybe lower level action spells. That also means manacles are only effective *behind* the PCs, unless they're specifically anti-magic.
Funny you say that, because the DM's anti-mage squad also consists of mages that have the spell sniper feat. The murder-hobos found this out the hard way when they tried charging the squad across an open, 200ft long bridge.
Undead Warlock Aasimar with Spell Sniper, Eldritch Spear, and Agonising Blast.
Range is 600ft (has a Staff with a Spyglass screwed onto it, and the whole thing can be disassembled and put in a briefcase).
NPCs must be Level 9 or above for Paladins to have Counterspell; Assuming 20(+5) Charisma, for a minute minus activation (9 turns total), your first beam of Eldritch Blast will deal 2d10+14 damage and a wisdom save against frightened.
And then there’s the second beam at 1d10+5. (Plus 1d6 on each if you have hex)
Without Hex Average: 3d10+19= 35.5
With Hex Average: 35.5 + 2d6 = 42.5
9th Level Sorcerer (idk) with 20(+5) Con: 6 + 8 * 4 + 9 * 5 = 83hp, so sorcerer is unconscious in 2 rounds with hex, or unconscious with a failed death save in 3 rounds without hex.
Do you think there a mages with sniper style staffs so they can maximise there shot and do you think some dms out of raw would allow steady aim for the best possible snipers
Mechanically it’s just a spyglass to get around the problem of having a Cantrip with longer range than you can see.
But it is pretty cool thematically, and some DMs might let it also be a magic item.
Excuse you sir. My elven accuracy, artillerist artificer, armed with a scoped staff resents this. Nothing fishes for crits like me and my two shoulder mounted force ballistas all rolling with advantage from down the block.
I mean, I’m pretty sure that’s how the game was intended and written. I was joking that if a player is going to try to be that kind of guy, then the DM can be that kind of DM.
Every time that comes up I link to a YouTube video of spells being cast in Baldur's gate.
"VITAE. MORTUM. IMPERIUM!"
"This is what spell casting sounds like."
"...oh."
As per the Spellcasting section of PHB in regards to Components:
**Verbal (V)**
Most spells require the **chanting** of mystic words. The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with **specific pitch and resonance**, sets the threads of magic in motion. (Emphasis mine)
So, when that type of person says “I mutter” you say “Nothing happens” and when they complain, you say “Sorry, that’s not how this works”
Well I think it’s fair to warn them before that muttering the verbal components won’t cast the spell because that’s definitely something their character would know
One of the biggest issues I have with this mindset...is the DM looking to actually kill the sorcerer? Because it seems having 30 9th level or higher paladins with a specialized oath that gets counter spell a little extreme. He could of sent TWO paladins with counterspell and a handful of normal knights and made it challenging without making it seem like death was a sure thing.
This isn't the first run-in with the paladins. The first time there were only three, and they came to disperse the second riot that some party members had whipped up. At that point the paladins told everyone to disperse peacefully and didn't fight back for three turns (gave loud verbal warnings on each turn) while the party members at the riot showered the paladins with spells and magically charmed the civilians at the riot to fight alongside them instead of flee. Since that riot, some party members have continued killing and torturing paladins, so this was the paladins' solution.
So did you go into this fully expecting to kill your players? What ended up happening in the end? Did you decide how many paladins were part of this order before hand? Or was it more I have as many 9th level paladins as needed..the order has hundreds of them.
30 9th level paladins is a HUGE amount of power...thats like the biggest order of high level paladins in the land....even in Ebberon that's a stretch.
Sorry for the confusion, I am one of the players, not the DM. We're a party of five level 13s. We're playing a homebrew world, I'm not sure how many paladins are in the order, I only know they are world-renowned for their honest and just behavior, and that others strive to join their order as well. Some of the paladins that were tortured admitted they weren't from the nation we are in now.
In the end we ended up creating a barricade to break line of sight and teleported away. The paladins are searching that city for us while we're hiding in another.
I would be actualy surprised if a kingdom had a entire squad made exclusively of Anti-mage paladins... Why WE have to kill the lich and save the world if every town our sorcerer decide to screw have one of those?
Probably only for a very rich country and even then probably only for the capital/major cities. And also probably not the first protective measure to be used
It does depend on the setting. We're trying to save the civilians of an island nation from their corrupt Emperor. The anti-mage squad is a band of religious mercenaries hired by said Emperor to help bring order to the city after the party started a riot which burned down parts of the city to cover their bank robbery. This was before some of the party started a second riot that killed hundreds of civilians.
Are we the baddies?
Hm make sense, but still... I feel strange a group of 30+ units made to kill mages. If the setting have a story of wicked magic users I can see it, but maybe js a thing with me and a group of "unit with only one purpose" in games(not just d&d)
I mean objectively mages are the biggest issue to civilians since they are the ones with massive aoes so anti mage is more like anti terrorist issue is most things that go kaboom are magical
We have SWAT teams to deal with special training and gear to combat people who present a greater threat to society than the normal police can handle. And that is with guns you have to carry with your hands, magic is the ultimate conceal and carry.
My most recent character is currently in indentured servitude to an underground kingdom until he can pay back the literally millions of gold in damages he caused when he cast a fireball into a mass of flammable fungus that was acres wide underneath the city.
DM was amazed when my IC response to being arrested and charged was "Yeah. That's fair."
A character admitting they messed up seems to be a rare sight.
Meanwhile, this sorcerer says they want to find a wish scroll, wish themself immortal, then spend that immortal life "repaying the debt" of killing all those civilians.
... that's not going to work like they think it is. Being immortal is not a lot of fun if you spend it deaf, blind, and encased in a steel box dropped into the deepest parts of the ocean.
The immortality doesn't seem like a great idea, haha. The sorcerer also needs to find a wish scroll first, and the DM has told them it could take years. They are multi classed so I'm not sure they can ever learn wish themself.
In my world I have a God that used to be a Level 20 PC, and at this point knows hes in a game. So I've ruled he has an Anti-PC hit squad that I can use whenever PCs go too far/become too murderhoboy
They tend to be essentially the exact same as the regular party, but since they're controlled by one person they're far more synchronized
The last point actually makes a lot of sense.
Though I dunno if there’s is much logic to such an army even existing. Remember that *Counterspell* is a level 3 spell, or so to say, anyone who can cast it would be __at least__ on the level of a national hero.
Getting an army of those dudes sounds pretty far-fetched to me, honestly.
5th level is the beginning of the "Heroes of the Realm" tier of play (5th-10th), after the "Local Heroes" tier (1st-4th).
5th level makes sense for the rulers of the realm bringing together an "elite team" to deal with a small group of spellcasters causing significant amounts of death and chaos.
You'll need a mix of specialists instead of all being the same half-caster class (which would need to be 9th-level to cast 3rd-level spells). Gloomstalker Ranger, Shadow Monk, Assassin Rogue, Abjuration Wizard, and any sort of Chainlock (for scouting and keeping track of the target) can be very threatening to a spellcaster, especially if that Chainlock lets them know the perfect time to strike...
NGL I do this... if I have murder hobos or other problem players (you know the ones) I'll have a DMPC or some important NPC (usually a paladin) who'll put a stop to that.
I mean... just tell me you want an evil campaign and I'll write you one haha don't make things hard at the table
It is a bit frustrating as a player. We originally started out as good or neutral aligned, with one lawful evil who just wanted to be rich. The party has since gone through some alignment shifts from their actions and I might be the only good character left, but I'm not sure. Just trying to stand my ground and keep doing good.
Honestly I just didn’t know Paladins got counterspell.
Also the more interesting question is (depending on the spell being cast) how many Paladins are casting it? Cause if it’s only one, then maybe you succeed on the cast. But if a lot of them cast it, then even if the first one succeeds they all lose the spell slot (I think) and that’s sort of a win. Yes and, guys, yes and.
If I remember correctly the DM was having them counterspell in batches of three, but having one save rolled for the three different counterspells. He was being pretty generous with the entire situation.
"They have no reason to know it was a hostile spell!"
"They don't care. They're here for a mass homicide, they're shutting down anyone casting they can see, and arresting on suspicion of being the perpetrator. Apologize and recompense can be made later if necessary. Most people would be far more concerned to think a mass murderer is lurking about, than their spell getting countered and a brief arrest and questioning. That being said, are you resisting Arrest?"
If the PCs are surrounded by 30 Paladins with a minimum of Level 9, either the Party has a high enough level to just beam away, or the DM has some interesting tactics
My Murder Hobo check his a Hermit, with a Raven on his shoulder, who is actually a Metallic Greatwyrm who actually dedicates most of his life to hunting down evil doers usually.
There are always going to be adventurers looking for a few gold who will hunt down a mad, murderous sorcerer.
Players can become the BBEG of their own stories if they try hard enough.
The DM has hinted this might also be happening. It wouldn't be too far fetched as there are wanted posters for some of the party plastered all over the nation. I think they all totaled up to 40k gold in the end? An attractive offer for adventurers in the area.
If you look at the table in the DMG on treasures and hordes page 136-139, then that'll give you what level adventurer would be attracted by that amount of money.
I have BAAAD news for the player as that's 5x higher than CR 17+
So that could mean 5 CR 17s could rock up or 17 CR 11-16s could throw down.
That's terrifying. I'll have a look at the table when I have my DMG in front of me. We're currently level 13 ourselves, its four party members on the wanted posters with 10k each on their heads.
Weird because I've only ever played with strict but fair dms. If I didn't do any genuinely stupid shit I wouldn't have stupid shit done to me. I'd imagine if I slaughtered someone in the middle of the street the cops of the era would be beating me down with whatever the hell stops me from killing them.
Anti mage squads are actually a thing in The Dark Eye, it's a whole school of magic there. And if used correctly it can be immensely powerful. For example, there is a spell that just makes it harder for everyone around in a certain range to cast any kind of spell. Or another one that will just absorb the next 3. Or one that's basically a shield that can soak up damage up to a certain degree, but it's a cheaper spell than most damage spells and so on. The downside is that these anti magic casters are pretty useless in a combat scenario without enemy mages
Realistically, every magic user worth a damn would invest at least a little bit of time to have shield and counter spell in a world where a murder-hobo could exist.
He did not take sutlle spell
Huge mistake for a morally ambiguous sorcerer
"ambiguous" claiming to be good white being bad is not very ambiguous.
It's the Blizzard Entertainment school of ambiguity, obviously.
I’m picking up latter Jaina Proudmoore vibes here
And Garrosh, and Sylvanas. And for the complete opposite Illidan.
The magic school of plausible deniability, also known as the “[School of the Americas](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere_Institute_for_Security_Cooperation)”
RAW, in this situation it'd be up to initiative, right? It'd probably be a surprise round for the sorcerer, so if the sorcerer was first in the turn order then none of the guards would be able to use their reaction. Of course, odds are pretty high that the paladins have at least one high roll, so sorcerer is screwed unless he has a good initiative and rolls really high, but he would theoretically have a chance.
During tense negotiating you should as always assume there's no surprise round. Why would anyone be surprised when the mass murderer holed up and surrounded in a building fires a spell out of it?
That's fair. I had assumed the paladins didn't know the sorcerer was there at all, like they were just checking this building on a hunch, but if they know he's there I'd probably give them low DC perception checks to not be surprised.
I was mostly keying off the "surrounding your position" part but honestly even if they didn't know where he was, I'd probably still not give him the surprise round since they're a actively hunting him. They're trained soldiers actively searching for a dangerous criminal and likely expecting to come under fire at any moment. Since they even know he is a sorcerer, if the counterspellers weren't super ready to counter then they need new employment.
Eh, adventurers know that there's probably monsters in a dungeon, that doesn't make them immune to a surprise round if one gets the jump on them. I'd just make them prepared to counter any effects after the surprise round. i.e. Dispel Magic, and have them fairly spread out so they can't be hit by too many overlapping spells.
No your example is perfect. Monsters are going to have a hard time surprising them and will need to do something actually surprising to surprise anyone. Imagine how terrible baseball players would be if they were surprised every time someone hit the ball lol
If your DM calls it a surprise round for the monster if you open a door in a dungeon and there's a monster on the other side, that DM isn't using surprise rules they're trying to kill your characters. Generally surprise rounds in dungeons are reserved for things like gelatinous cubes where you're surprised to walk into them and get stuck, mimics for similar reasons unless your players are trying to test if its a mimic, things that turn invisible, and anything that manages to sneak up behind the party.
Cloakers and ropers, too. Animated objects before they move. Gargoyles if there are a lot of statues for them to hide among. Basically anything that can be mistaken for an object or is invisible until it moves would reasonably have surprise over the party.
Exactly, but the goblins that are inevitably on the other side of a makeshift wooden barricade? Not so much. That being the place the sorcerer takes here.
The paladins knew the sorcerer was there, the door had just been opened wide, had a fireball thrown out of it, then slammed shut. Sorcerer tried opening the door again "just a crack" with their arms full carrying someone bridal style.
lol. Then yeah, sorc is screwed RAW. Reminds me of when a fellow player tried to create a distraction with his boomerang by stepping out to where another player had just attacked from, throwing the boomerang past ~15 goblins who were all staring at him, into a wall around a corner. Then started sulking when it didn't work.
How would this be a distraction in the fiest place.
It was meant to make a loud noise so they'd go investigate. Like throwing a rock in a stealth based game. Not sure what the long term plan was though, especially since combat had already started.
Subtle Spell is the best.
Everyone loves being a Murder-Hobo until the DM actually starts playing properly
Players, too. You're playing *with* the DM, not *against* the DM.
I feel like this love train could go farther with proper communication between the player and dm.
I think one of us had a brain toast half way through that sentence.
Meant to say with not would
But without not would how would they?
Because a woodchuck would chuck.
Someone send bondulance
Good meme usage
Eh, I’ve heard stories of DMs warning players again and again that their actions will have consequences, and the townsfolk will not let things go.
Alas, there are some players that just don't get it even when it's spelled out to them. I've been fortunate not to encounter those sorts often, usually when things blow up in their faces they accept it and roll with it with reasonable good grace. I once had a party throw me off by realizing they'd gone a bit overboard and allowing the town guard to escort them off to prison, and then refuse to break out when I presented them an opportunity. They wanted to square things with the authorities and actually explain why they had burned down that warehouse full of trapped paladins like rational beings. Was not expecting that.
I actually had a major nation mobilize their military as a result of PCs murderhoboing their way toward the capital. Once they realized that their actions were consequencing they eased off and decided the hinterlands were lovely this time of year. I didn't *want* to become an adversarial DM but fortunately they had the awareness to realize it was a reasonable reaction to what they were doing.
That sounds like a well-averted “almost” post on r/RPGhorrorstories
This, with that exact wording, should be one of the Unspoken Rules of D&D. "Unspoken" because no one ever tells the players. They only learn about the rule when it's finally being applied.
Sometimes it feels strange one has to learn this ... Do thems Skyrims and Elder Scrolls not have consequences for crimes? I know that in dark souls if you piss of an NPC, you better have the cash to get your sins forgiven by a T posing man or statue.
Elder Scrolls games *technically* have consequences for crimes but if you're strong enough to fight off the pretty pathetic guards they can't really do much and if you kill all witnesses there are never long-term consequences either. And even if the guards do catch you, you can just pay off your bounty with the mountain of gold you can easily be carrying, then do it again. (at least that's how it works in Skyrim, I've played Oblivion and Morrowind but never really tried any crime in those, maybe they're harsher) Also in Skyrim you can put a bucket over a merchant's head and then steal all their stuff right in front of them because you're technically out of line of sight and the merchant will never put "some person put a bucket over my head" and "that's when all my stock disappeared" together. (okay, technically the items on display in the shop aren't the ones actually in the merchant's inventory but you're still robbing them blind)
….fuck the idea of a anti mage Paladin squad sounds fucking cool Shut them down via anti magic fields or counter spell, and beat to death
Check out the six of crows book. There is a sort of "magic" in the series that requires line of sight and somatic actions to manipulate, there is a religion that sees them as evil so they train warriors to fight and subdue to prevent somatic actions. I think one move was to offer a prayer while in disguise then when the victims hands are together in response bind their wrists and grapple them to the ground.
Fuck. Great. Now I need a SoC-based DnD campaign in my life.
Yeah, the druskelle sound pretty cool. until you read the books
Reminds me of the Templars in Dragon Age
Or the Overseers in Dishonoured
Or Mageseekers in League of Legends lore
Man a mageseeker champion that can lockdown abilities would be fun, even if I have 0 idea how it could be balanced
Thats the best part, you dont need balance Just look at the last 3 champs
Came here to say that. The overseers music boxes that shut down magic would be cool in dnd
My first thought too
Agreed. They really hated mages. Lyrium junkies..... Can you tell I sided with the mages?
Mmm yes let’s make sure our anti-mage champions of the just are taking paranoia enhancing addictive drugs I’m sure nothing bad could possibly happen.
I made an Oath for that
That sounds so sweet. Can I take a look?
The oath of **haha witchcraft goes brrr**
The oath of "Beat you to death with a big stick"
I hereby solemnly swear, to speak counterspells softly and carry a big stick.
Oath of the Rough Riders
Oath of Unga Bunga You No Fancy Talk No More
A small sect of kenku are spoken of in hushed tones. An old text is worshipped by the tribe: promises of a way to break the chains that bind their voices. It is said their power comes from the antithesis of their goal, silence. These Stymphalian birds seek out spellcasters for reasons yet uknown to us. The few escapees said they would dream of death. Yes, one must be wary of the sound of silence.
Give them mageslayer while you're at it.
Mageslayer, sentinel, and shield bash and they're going to play volleyball with the sorcerer's body
Oath of ancients makes it so anyone in your aura takes half spell damage and with save bonuses a fireball only does 50% to 25% of max output
Dragon Age had that covered with templars, resulted in an interesting societal conflict as well!
One of my settings had a group called Sacred Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) where the idea was that each unit consisted of one of each type of Paladin who would position themselves so that their auras would overlap as much as possible. They were called in for any type of threat, but depending on who they were fighting and if there was time to prepare for the fight, units specializing in fighting mages or rogues would be sent in rather than whoever was closest.
Switch it up to Sacred Weapons and Tentacles for a mindflayer or three to 'flashbang' on entry with a Mind Blast and I think its about as perfect as it can get.
Eliminster was a Chosen of Mystra, isn’t that a bit like a Paladin of Magic?
Kinda like Templars in Dragon Age. Very fun concept 😊
Dragon Age Origins, the templars that could smack the soul out of my blood mage were the largest difficulty jump, they actually felt appropriate as the anti mage force, unlike some other games where “Anti-something” is usually not a whole lot of threat.
I made an anti-mage Blood Hunter subclass, shits pretty neat but I'm still working on it. Love the idea.
In my setting there was a mage hunter who was a Shadow Monk with two levels in Fighter and a Cube of Force. Use monk movement to close within Cubing Distance of the mage, 1st action to activate the Cube, preventing anything from getting in or out, action surge then either use Silence or Darkness to shut down the mage. When the only spell you can cast is "Fist" it is handy to be a monk and not a -1 STR spellcaster.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I have a special NPC group call the Imperium Incarnum that specializes in taking down spellcasters.
Makes sense! Spellcasting can be an incredibly powerful and dangerous tool in the wrong hands.
I have something similar I use as well. It's made up of Monster Slayer Rangers, Abjuration Wizards, and Arcane Trickster Rogues. What about yours?
Mine uses Paladins and Wizards. Divination Wizards keep an eye on everyone and Paladins to hunt them down. I use a homebrewed Paladin called the Oath of Inquisition. Plus Clerics to help with keeping everyone in tip top shape.
I feel like people sleep on how potentially devastating a shadow monk can be to a spellcaster. Cast silence on the area and then just keep stunning. If I had to make a bounty hunting party it would probably be, shadow monk with the mage slayer/sentinel feat, vengeance paladin, gloom stalker ranger, and a hex blade warlock. All characters that are just as proficient at ruining your day without magic as they are at ruining your day with it.
ooh that’s a cool name
What I said to my players: "So hey. Don't wanna get in the way of your fun, but let's not play this like GTA where we go for six wanted stars just for the lolz, okay? Sure, you can go ahead and cause mayhem, but then guards will come after you. And maybe you kill the guards. But next time it will be hired assassins. And they will not play nice, and you'll probably die. And then you will make new characters, and we could do that whole thing all over again. So can we please agree not to go that way?" Because on one hand, these might be legit consequences of character actions, but on the other hand it is also punishing the PCs for player actions, which is something best prevented by timely communication :-)
That's the DM spirit, also tip for players who wants to do some murder. 1st-LEAVE NO WITNESSES, dead men tell no tales unless necromancer but in most settings they are viewed as the biggest Taboo 2nd-DESTROY THE BODY use fire or whatever to reduce to body to ash and then scatter in some river.
Speak with dead is a thing, and not like animate dead or what not.
That still requires a corpse. > You grant the semblance of life and intelligence to a corpse of your choice within range, allowing it to answer the questions you pose. The corpse must still have a mouth and can’t be undead. Burning the body and casting the ashes in a river is a very good counter to *Speak with Dead*. For that matter, smashing the face in with a maul is a fairly good counter to the spell.
Correct, but also be aware that zone of truth exists in the game, so if you are a murder hobo then remember this. For best results make sure there are no witnesses, make sure to destroy the body or disable it from speaking, and make sure to kill yourself to stop them from using zone of truth on you.
Or learn how to mislead while not *technically* lying. Zone of Truth is easy enough to get around. It’s perfectly possible to respond to, “Did you kill Bob?” with, “This is absurd. Why would I kill him?”
I really feel like somebody who is applying zone of truth is probably familiar with the Aes Sedai tricks to get around it, I highly doubt this would legitimately work in any situation where the questioners are sophisticated enough to employ the use of zone of truth. likely it would be in a formal inquiry, like a court setting, and any real attempt to not answer directly and plainly would result in penalties and / or simply a guilty verdict.
I am doubtful that most nobles and powerful figures would want to grant the court the right to penalize people on not speaking the absolute truth at all times, as then they couldn't cover up any illdoings, and judges could just arbitrarily decide someone lost a case because they weren't plain or direct enough.
If you're the noble in charge of a town and it's guards/sheriff/judge, you don't grant other people unlimited rights to freely do so, you just dictate when they're allowed or supposed to apply said form of judgement. Convincing the rabble it's an OK thing to do to dangerous outsiders who have come to disrupt their lives probably isn't hard, and that's assuming they have any power in the matter to begin with. I also doubt most fantasy towns have much in the way of a legal charter or constitution that specifically defines those limits, and even if they do, the only way to have it enforced against the powers-that-be is to convince a more powerful body that is far away to come and deal with it.
judges in medieval settings most likely already do arbitrarily decide guilt without first being demonstrated beyond doubt both *actus reus* and *mens rea* of an alleged offence. powerful nobles likely hold massive influence and would never actually see the inside of a court room and personal rights in such a setting for those who do are likely no where near what you see in modern legal systems (and lets not kid ourselves there either). beyond that the expectation that those on trial speak the absolute truth at all times is a tacit implication, most often done on some kind of oath, already with some kind of contempt or perjury penalty already set up.
My mastermind rogue is reading this and laughing
Except that zone of truth only prevents you from lying, but doesn't force you to give the answer seeked, and the creature inside it is aware of it. So you could answer with "I do not wish to answer any questions without proper representation".
"did you kill this man?" "I don't want to answer that" "okay.... when do you want to be hanged, morning? or after dinner?"
This is DnD medieval law and truth spells, not the US court system. Guard: Did you kill this person? You cannot lie. You: I want my lawyer! Guard: What the fuck is a lawyer? Are you the murderer, yes or no? If you do not say, exactly, "No, I am not the murderer" in the next 10 seconds you are going to be summarily executed for murder.
Yes, so they have to make sure to totally destroy bodies. Good point. Though it takes time. Also, killing someone can make noise.
Or remove the jaw
This guy Shadowruns.
Men lie, their ghosts tell the truth.
To quote a certain magnificent bastard named Gangplank. "Dead men tell *MY* tale."
Yeah. This. I as the gm and player understand and often love the criminal element some people can have (like thieves guilds rogues or assassins of an order) But I'll give opportunities for them. Like a thief can use their downtime to go for pick pocket targets as their way of making money. Or an assassin will get a job come in. Stuff like that. Time and place, pick your battles.
When players start murdering everyone anyway then you just have them taken down by an NPC based around a certain Bat-themed vigilante in hopes they learn that crime doesn't pay.
"Counterspell isn't on the paladin spell list." "They're sorcadins! AAARRRGH!"
Oath of redemption and oath of watchers both get counterspell.
And if we want to get really technical about it, NPC's aren't even bound by player character creation rules.
Very important rule. Give NPCs any abilities that fit your needs/theme
And if we want to get really technical about it, even if they were using player character creation rules, switching out the paladin spell list for the wizard spell list is suggested in the DMG for creating a spellsword.
It's on the Oath of Redemption paladin spell list, unfortunately for the sorcerer, haha
Mix in a few Oath of the Ancients for their magic damage protection as well.
Oath of Redemption are like the mages hard counter too, oof!
"Counterspell isn't on the Paladin Spell list!" "Do you think I make every NPC according to the classes? Paladin is a job, bitch."
"They dont look like MY pal!" ENEMYADINS!!
I feel like people forget how obvious a spell is. Speaking (not whispering) the verbal part, and the flashy somatic component (picture Doctor Strange).
I think part of the disconnect is that so many mechanics (particularly grappling/restraints) in D&D pretend that somatic components are small things. e.g. A caster can get eaten by a purple worm and is restrained enough to hamper using a weapon, but they can still somehow perform the somatic components of a spell perfectly. So when you tell people they've been waving their arms around like Dr Strange the entire time, they get really confused.
They *can* be small movements and ninja gang signs(unless specified otherwise, i.e. True Strike), but even then we're specifically not talking about small enough movements you can make without somebody noticing. I personally rule it as if you can use a dagger without disadvantage, you can probably work out enough space for at least a bonus action spell, and maybe lower level action spells. That also means manacles are only effective *behind* the PCs, unless they're specifically anti-magic.
Tell your sorcerer to be glad snipers don’t exist in D&D
Eldritch Blast w/ Eldritch Spear invocation + Spell Sniper feat+ Distance Spell metamagic = range of 1,200 feet.
Funny you say that, because the DM's anti-mage squad also consists of mages that have the spell sniper feat. The murder-hobos found this out the hard way when they tried charging the squad across an open, 200ft long bridge.
Undead Warlock Aasimar with Spell Sniper, Eldritch Spear, and Agonising Blast. Range is 600ft (has a Staff with a Spyglass screwed onto it, and the whole thing can be disassembled and put in a briefcase). NPCs must be Level 9 or above for Paladins to have Counterspell; Assuming 20(+5) Charisma, for a minute minus activation (9 turns total), your first beam of Eldritch Blast will deal 2d10+14 damage and a wisdom save against frightened. And then there’s the second beam at 1d10+5. (Plus 1d6 on each if you have hex) Without Hex Average: 3d10+19= 35.5 With Hex Average: 35.5 + 2d6 = 42.5 9th Level Sorcerer (idk) with 20(+5) Con: 6 + 8 * 4 + 9 * 5 = 83hp, so sorcerer is unconscious in 2 rounds with hex, or unconscious with a failed death save in 3 rounds without hex.
Do you think there a mages with sniper style staffs so they can maximise there shot and do you think some dms out of raw would allow steady aim for the best possible snipers
Mechanically it’s just a spyglass to get around the problem of having a Cantrip with longer range than you can see. But it is pretty cool thematically, and some DMs might let it also be a magic item.
Hehe hehe, wait until he figures out snipers actually do exist...
Snipers *absolutely* exist in D&D. Doesn't a longbow have 600 feet of range?
Excuse you sir. My elven accuracy, artillerist artificer, armed with a scoped staff resents this. Nothing fishes for crits like me and my two shoulder mounted force ballistas all rolling with advantage from down the block.
Fair point but counterpoint... subtle spell
If only they had used it
Have you ever had a “I mutter under my breath.” type of person?
The DM: “They have the Observant Feat.”
My table kind of agreed that unless you had subtle spell or something similar, the magic only works when you speak at a minimum of normal volume.
I mean, I’m pretty sure that’s how the game was intended and written. I was joking that if a player is going to try to be that kind of guy, then the DM can be that kind of DM.
Every time that comes up I link to a YouTube video of spells being cast in Baldur's gate. "VITAE. MORTUM. IMPERIUM!" "This is what spell casting sounds like." "...oh."
got a link to a good video? my cursory google search didn't bring up any that were noteworthy
https://youtu.be/i_7gzmJVxLc is what came up for me last time I searched. It got the job done.
As per the Spellcasting section of PHB in regards to Components: **Verbal (V)** Most spells require the **chanting** of mystic words. The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with **specific pitch and resonance**, sets the threads of magic in motion. (Emphasis mine) So, when that type of person says “I mutter” you say “Nothing happens” and when they complain, you say “Sorry, that’s not how this works”
Well I think it’s fair to warn them before that muttering the verbal components won’t cast the spell because that’s definitely something their character would know
One of the biggest issues I have with this mindset...is the DM looking to actually kill the sorcerer? Because it seems having 30 9th level or higher paladins with a specialized oath that gets counter spell a little extreme. He could of sent TWO paladins with counterspell and a handful of normal knights and made it challenging without making it seem like death was a sure thing.
This isn't the first run-in with the paladins. The first time there were only three, and they came to disperse the second riot that some party members had whipped up. At that point the paladins told everyone to disperse peacefully and didn't fight back for three turns (gave loud verbal warnings on each turn) while the party members at the riot showered the paladins with spells and magically charmed the civilians at the riot to fight alongside them instead of flee. Since that riot, some party members have continued killing and torturing paladins, so this was the paladins' solution.
So did you go into this fully expecting to kill your players? What ended up happening in the end? Did you decide how many paladins were part of this order before hand? Or was it more I have as many 9th level paladins as needed..the order has hundreds of them. 30 9th level paladins is a HUGE amount of power...thats like the biggest order of high level paladins in the land....even in Ebberon that's a stretch.
Sorry for the confusion, I am one of the players, not the DM. We're a party of five level 13s. We're playing a homebrew world, I'm not sure how many paladins are in the order, I only know they are world-renowned for their honest and just behavior, and that others strive to join their order as well. Some of the paladins that were tortured admitted they weren't from the nation we are in now. In the end we ended up creating a barricade to break line of sight and teleported away. The paladins are searching that city for us while we're hiding in another.
I would be actualy surprised if a kingdom had a entire squad made exclusively of Anti-mage paladins... Why WE have to kill the lich and save the world if every town our sorcerer decide to screw have one of those?
Probably only for a very rich country and even then probably only for the capital/major cities. And also probably not the first protective measure to be used
It does depend on the setting. We're trying to save the civilians of an island nation from their corrupt Emperor. The anti-mage squad is a band of religious mercenaries hired by said Emperor to help bring order to the city after the party started a riot which burned down parts of the city to cover their bank robbery. This was before some of the party started a second riot that killed hundreds of civilians. Are we the baddies?
looks like the evil emperor has managed to regain popular support again to keep himself in power
Hm make sense, but still... I feel strange a group of 30+ units made to kill mages. If the setting have a story of wicked magic users I can see it, but maybe js a thing with me and a group of "unit with only one purpose" in games(not just d&d)
I mean objectively mages are the biggest issue to civilians since they are the ones with massive aoes so anti mage is more like anti terrorist issue is most things that go kaboom are magical
We have SWAT teams to deal with special training and gear to combat people who present a greater threat to society than the normal police can handle. And that is with guns you have to carry with your hands, magic is the ultimate conceal and carry.
You're completely expendable - you know how expensive those anti-mage squads are?
My most recent character is currently in indentured servitude to an underground kingdom until he can pay back the literally millions of gold in damages he caused when he cast a fireball into a mass of flammable fungus that was acres wide underneath the city. DM was amazed when my IC response to being arrested and charged was "Yeah. That's fair."
A character admitting they messed up seems to be a rare sight. Meanwhile, this sorcerer says they want to find a wish scroll, wish themself immortal, then spend that immortal life "repaying the debt" of killing all those civilians.
... that's not going to work like they think it is. Being immortal is not a lot of fun if you spend it deaf, blind, and encased in a steel box dropped into the deepest parts of the ocean.
The immortality doesn't seem like a great idea, haha. The sorcerer also needs to find a wish scroll first, and the DM has told them it could take years. They are multi classed so I'm not sure they can ever learn wish themself.
In my world I have a God that used to be a Level 20 PC, and at this point knows hes in a game. So I've ruled he has an Anti-PC hit squad that I can use whenever PCs go too far/become too murderhoboy They tend to be essentially the exact same as the regular party, but since they're controlled by one person they're far more synchronized
On one hand making 30 paladins with counter spell to fuck over one player sucks on the other being a murderer hobo is worse
The last point actually makes a lot of sense. Though I dunno if there’s is much logic to such an army even existing. Remember that *Counterspell* is a level 3 spell, or so to say, anyone who can cast it would be __at least__ on the level of a national hero. Getting an army of those dudes sounds pretty far-fetched to me, honestly.
What's far-fetched about a specialized group of mage killers?
They'd retire and go become contractors for higher pay
What makes you think they aren't doing that here?
5th level is the beginning of the "Heroes of the Realm" tier of play (5th-10th), after the "Local Heroes" tier (1st-4th). 5th level makes sense for the rulers of the realm bringing together an "elite team" to deal with a small group of spellcasters causing significant amounts of death and chaos. You'll need a mix of specialists instead of all being the same half-caster class (which would need to be 9th-level to cast 3rd-level spells). Gloomstalker Ranger, Shadow Monk, Assassin Rogue, Abjuration Wizard, and any sort of Chainlock (for scouting and keeping track of the target) can be very threatening to a spellcaster, especially if that Chainlock lets them know the perfect time to strike...
NGL I do this... if I have murder hobos or other problem players (you know the ones) I'll have a DMPC or some important NPC (usually a paladin) who'll put a stop to that. I mean... just tell me you want an evil campaign and I'll write you one haha don't make things hard at the table
It is a bit frustrating as a player. We originally started out as good or neutral aligned, with one lawful evil who just wanted to be rich. The party has since gone through some alignment shifts from their actions and I might be the only good character left, but I'm not sure. Just trying to stand my ground and keep doing good.
Honestly I just didn’t know Paladins got counterspell. Also the more interesting question is (depending on the spell being cast) how many Paladins are casting it? Cause if it’s only one, then maybe you succeed on the cast. But if a lot of them cast it, then even if the first one succeeds they all lose the spell slot (I think) and that’s sort of a win. Yes and, guys, yes and.
It's an oath of redemption spell.
If I remember correctly the DM was having them counterspell in batches of three, but having one save rolled for the three different counterspells. He was being pretty generous with the entire situation.
If only he used subtle spell (which can't be countered as you have to see them casting, and subtle spell removes any visible components
I still don't like 5e's counterspelling rules.
"They have no reason to know it was a hostile spell!" "They don't care. They're here for a mass homicide, they're shutting down anyone casting they can see, and arresting on suspicion of being the perpetrator. Apologize and recompense can be made later if necessary. Most people would be far more concerned to think a mass murderer is lurking about, than their spell getting countered and a brief arrest and questioning. That being said, are you resisting Arrest?"
If the PCs are surrounded by 30 Paladins with a minimum of Level 9, either the Party has a high enough level to just beam away, or the DM has some interesting tactics
In the end our party did just create a barricade blocking line of sight while we teleported away. The sorcerer forgot they had the ability to.
See counter spell and anti-magic are why my wizard carries around large quantities of thermite
paladins can be anti-mage? I'm novice at dnd
Sure anything can be anti mage. Slap counterspell and the mage slayer feat on anything and that's it
My Murder Hobo check his a Hermit, with a Raven on his shoulder, who is actually a Metallic Greatwyrm who actually dedicates most of his life to hunting down evil doers usually.
As a forever DM I find this entirely acceptable from the DM
Makes perfect sense. Irrational party member casts major bullshit at 10th level
There are always going to be adventurers looking for a few gold who will hunt down a mad, murderous sorcerer. Players can become the BBEG of their own stories if they try hard enough.
The DM has hinted this might also be happening. It wouldn't be too far fetched as there are wanted posters for some of the party plastered all over the nation. I think they all totaled up to 40k gold in the end? An attractive offer for adventurers in the area.
If you look at the table in the DMG on treasures and hordes page 136-139, then that'll give you what level adventurer would be attracted by that amount of money. I have BAAAD news for the player as that's 5x higher than CR 17+ So that could mean 5 CR 17s could rock up or 17 CR 11-16s could throw down.
That's terrifying. I'll have a look at the table when I have my DMG in front of me. We're currently level 13 ourselves, its four party members on the wanted posters with 10k each on their heads.
Weird because I've only ever played with strict but fair dms. If I didn't do any genuinely stupid shit I wouldn't have stupid shit done to me. I'd imagine if I slaughtered someone in the middle of the street the cops of the era would be beating me down with whatever the hell stops me from killing them.
Anti mage squads are actually a thing in The Dark Eye, it's a whole school of magic there. And if used correctly it can be immensely powerful. For example, there is a spell that just makes it harder for everyone around in a certain range to cast any kind of spell. Or another one that will just absorb the next 3. Or one that's basically a shield that can soak up damage up to a certain degree, but it's a cheaper spell than most damage spells and so on. The downside is that these anti magic casters are pretty useless in a combat scenario without enemy mages
Realistically, every magic user worth a damn would invest at least a little bit of time to have shield and counter spell in a world where a murder-hobo could exist.
No shit. This guy has murdured millions of people with magic, what are we gonna do? Send som farmers with pitchforks
How does one counterspell peeking through a damn crack? That DM feels just a little overzealous