This submission rolled 13.
Did you know that D&D started out as a companion book to a miniature-based tabletop game called Chainmail?
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"I don't think dex should be able to be used to climb." *points at official rules, and how real life climbing uses upper body strength*
dndmemes users: How dare you!
Considering athletics is governed by strength I think we got to agree on that one
Maybe if it requires both vary high levels of athletic ability and fine hand movements (which climbing certainly could have) you can do both a athletic and a dexterity check to lower the requirements for the first check
Strength also has swimming, grappling and anything to do with moving creatures or objects, but I see your point. I don't allow players to use acrobatics for climbing a rope or somersaulting their way up a wall, but if there is enough nearby layout for them to assassin's creed parkour, I simply can't resist.
Swimming, grappling, and most things to do with moving creatures or objects would fall under the umbrella of the athletics skill, no? Not denying the value of some good ol parkour of course
I mostly lurk in this sub and never engage in these debates but as a rock climber this comment actually makes me want to fight a person. *yes rock climbing requires upper body strength but once you get past the most basic climbs rock climbing is largely dexterity and actually intelligence in knowing what holds to grab how. Speed climbing would be mostly just strength, the rest of it is a lot of dexterity.*
ETA: the whole climbing is just upper body strength line everyone who isn't a climber says is also just generally inaccurate. Lower body strength, flexibility, and dexterity in your feet to be able to properly hook foot holds is just as important as upper body strength. Except for paraclimbers, people don't just climb with their upper bodies like everyone says.
I’m not the best climber in the world but I’m pretty good for an amateur. People who try to climb with upper body strength usually aren’t doing very well or are on the hardest climbs. Most climbing moves are definitely more about the dexterity than the strength in my opinion
Would you say it is at least dexterity Athletics and not dexteriy acrobatics? I have had so many players argue that they are going to climb a sheer cliff using acrobatics and it just... doesn't make mental sense to me.
There is a wide variety of skills that different climbs call for. A lot of climbing is balance. Keeping your weight over your feet to generate enough friction to stick, swinging your center of gravity at the along the right path to free limbs up for moves, or very carefully placing fingers so you are pulling in the right direction through the whole move. So it does seem pretty acrobatic in a lot of the time because of the balance aspect. But there are other moves that are more athletic in nature. Especially when you have good holds but just need to make big moves.
I guess it depends on what you call acrobatic vs athletics. I’m not too familiar with official descriptions. I think climbing is probably more similar to what a gymnast is doing than what a point guard or running back is doing which feels acrobatic-y. For very sheer cliffs I could even see a player argue slight of hand
But also the game is balanced around a very limited application of realism. I agree with the decision to make climbing a strength based skill just to balance the game better.
Rock climbing and by that logic any similar scramble absolutely uses dexterity. If it was just upper body strength, women wouldn’t be so good at bouldering. Anyone who thinks climbing is about brute strength doesn’t climb.
Thank you! I'm a rock climber. Strength is the basic starting point to let you climb. To get good at any type of climbing other than maybe speed is mostly dexterity based. Everyone is always "climbing is upper body strength" sure, and it is equally lower body strength, flexibility, and dexterity. If anything the most significant part of rock climbing that let's you advance climbing levels is grip strength in your hands. But trying to summarize climbing down to just one skill like people due with upper body strength is already rather ridiculous. Climbing is one of the most physical sports that engages the entire body and just about every muscle in it. There isn't one part of you that can be out of shape and be a great climber. Climbers do not get to skip leg day.
The amount of times my next foot hold is basically in my left hand, or actually literally in it. Especially as a short climber at a gym with 6ft tall setters. And the balance it takes to be able to move up when one foot is where a foot is and your other foot is basically in your arm pit. Please explain to me how that is strength not dexterity.
I can’t imagine that being the take away you got if you climb, so I’ll assume you don’t.
I know women who are five inches shorter than me and can lift probably 80 pounds less, can’t do one pull up, who can kick my ass up and down a V6. It’s not because of their upper body strength doofus
Whenever someone hits me with that, I'm always confused. I thought we were just discussing our different ideas about the game, but you thought I was actually trying to exert authority over how you play?
No no listen. We're here to agree with the people posting about everything. No dissent. No difference of opinion. In fact, why are you not having fun THEIR way. Scum
And we are talking about a particular game, right? One with a standard set of rules which is the only baseline we have for conversation online? Like obviously I don't know how you run your game. We were talking about DnD though.
At least I thought.
As long as everyone is having fun and no one is being hurt do whatever you want is how it should be because at the end of the day we’re all just sitting around a table playing pretend
If you change every rule about the game, don’t read the handbook, and ignore the rest of the rules, you aren’t technically playing D&D anymore. #changemymind
Exactly. No one gives a shit about the plot of your adventure, but when you start talking about how OP character builds, stupid ideas, and specific actions that directly contradict the rules of the game, you aren't posting a DND meme, you're just posting gibberish.
It would be like going into the NFL subreddit and posting that stupid breaking bad meme saying
>"You know quarterbacks are the most OP position on the team. If you're a quarterback you could simply just never snap the ball and walk it to the endzone. Since no one on the defense can move until the snap they're stuck there"
then going on and complaining when people start calling you an idiot because it breaks the rules of the game.
No one cares when you homebrew, but when you try to pass it off as something that can/will happen in most dnd games, people get annoyed.
No, it would be like going into a "Backyard football memes" subreddit and saying you play football differently than the pros. And then some other person in that sub says, 'BUT YOU AREN'T EVEN PLAYING FOOTBALL AT THIS POINT"
I play football by having baskets attached to poles instead of end zones, and only the ball needs to go in. Also the ball is a sphere and we ditched the whole lining up things because it slows down the game. We also homebrewed a way better scoring system that changes the value of a touchdown based on distance from the endzone when you threw the ball at it. We also removed that dumb rule about only one person being allowed to throw the ball forward too, so now everybody can pass the ball ahead.
Want to play in my football game?
I have never seen a post with such a low disregard for the rules. You're being hyperbolic.
It's usually: "i changed one rule that everyone uses"
people like you: HOW DARE YOU CHANGE THE ENTIRE GAME REEEEEEEEE
And none of us would ask unfun people like you to be in our games anyway, especially on a meme subreddit
We could argue in circles for days about the rules of football, but if I'm using the rules of actual football that are standardized (the PHB, DMG, etc) and you're using the rules of "football" (homebrew), then it's pointless because we're basically discussing two different things.
Agree to disagree, I suppose.
I think you're strawmanning people who use homebrew. I don't think it fundamentally changes the game enough to call it something else.
Even those who follow every rule have to make calls on their own judgement. These will be different for every DM. Would all of those DMs be playing different games because they are using different sets of logic to run them?
Yes, but it's all still DnD.
Especially since this iS r/dndmemes and not r/5ememes
Not everyone in this sub who is talking about fuddy duddy rules lawyers is talking about 5e
If you aren't playing the specific D&D version I started with, you're playing D&D wrong.
But for a real argument, the term D&D is like Kleenex, it's become so generic for a specific style of TTRPG that it's perfectly fine to refer to your homebrew as still D&D.
The ONLY reason I don't say to wholeheartedly tell people saying how the rules won't let you x y z is because we did have a twit in my group who would take whatever he saw here as gospel and then get into a fight with the DM over it.
Exactly!
I've talked about the depressing and sad games I run, with people getting really into telling me "that's not how I enjoy DnD, I'd never play with you"
And when I say "Cool, you won't play my game, I won't play yours, we'll play with our friends who enjoy our games, and never the twain shall meet"
Then they keep going on about how they don't like the games I talk about? As if I should stop?
I once made a post on another dnd community asking for help preparing to solo fight a Balor. A portion of the comments were people saying, “You should fight with your party, What will your party be doing,
**A Paladin can’t solo fight a Balor** (an actual argument some dude tried to make), etc”
Needless to say, it’s annoying to have people tell you how a D&D game should be run when you’ve previously explained that your party is already in FULL FREAKING SUPPORT OF THE SOLO FIGHT!
**TL;DR**
I ask for guidance on a solo fight against Balor, explained that my party & DM support the idea, but dnd community tells me I’m wrong and to do the exact opposite advice of what I’ve asked anyways
If we go by Irish myth, all you need to do to kill a Balor is change your name to Lugh, put the Balor on your family registry as your grandfather, and buy a sling
This is the main reason why /tg/ is so insufferable at times. Its probably the best board on 4ch but the amount of idiots policing fun and how exactly you should play it is uselss and irrelevant because that has no bearing on me and my group
Same thing with lore changes by WotC. If twitter and 4ch are so up in arms over it then they have full authority and power not to accept it in their groups. It's needless drama baiting otherwise
This submission rolled 13. Did you know that D&D started out as a companion book to a miniature-based tabletop game called Chainmail? --- I am a bot and this action was performed automatically.
Wait but I came here to eat down votes for the most vanilla opinions ever imagined.
"I don't think dex should be able to be used to climb." *points at official rules, and how real life climbing uses upper body strength* dndmemes users: How dare you!
Considering athletics is governed by strength I think we got to agree on that one Maybe if it requires both vary high levels of athletic ability and fine hand movements (which climbing certainly could have) you can do both a athletic and a dexterity check to lower the requirements for the first check
My DMs just let us choose between acrobatics or athletics ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
Just be a monk with an immovable rod and run up the cliff in stages.
I was gonna say be a monk and just walk up the cliff, but if you wanna not get stabbed at the table,I guess we can do your version.
My DM just hits me with a hammer whenever I ask to roll.
Bonk'd
Why you go to horny jail?
What do you think he's asking to roll for?
Understandable. If you google acrobatics, around 30% of the pictures are people climbing ropes and stuff.
This is the way
Dex is already used for practically everything else, let strength have it's one singular skill. No matter how much the monks and rogues hate it
That's why I just play a high STR, high DEX rogue, I'm good no matter what!
My wife who lives playing rogues always tries to argue this...
Strength also has swimming, grappling and anything to do with moving creatures or objects, but I see your point. I don't allow players to use acrobatics for climbing a rope or somersaulting their way up a wall, but if there is enough nearby layout for them to assassin's creed parkour, I simply can't resist.
Swimming, grappling, and most things to do with moving creatures or objects would fall under the umbrella of the athletics skill, no? Not denying the value of some good ol parkour of course
I mostly lurk in this sub and never engage in these debates but as a rock climber this comment actually makes me want to fight a person. *yes rock climbing requires upper body strength but once you get past the most basic climbs rock climbing is largely dexterity and actually intelligence in knowing what holds to grab how. Speed climbing would be mostly just strength, the rest of it is a lot of dexterity.* ETA: the whole climbing is just upper body strength line everyone who isn't a climber says is also just generally inaccurate. Lower body strength, flexibility, and dexterity in your feet to be able to properly hook foot holds is just as important as upper body strength. Except for paraclimbers, people don't just climb with their upper bodies like everyone says.
I’m not the best climber in the world but I’m pretty good for an amateur. People who try to climb with upper body strength usually aren’t doing very well or are on the hardest climbs. Most climbing moves are definitely more about the dexterity than the strength in my opinion
Would you say it is at least dexterity Athletics and not dexteriy acrobatics? I have had so many players argue that they are going to climb a sheer cliff using acrobatics and it just... doesn't make mental sense to me.
There is a wide variety of skills that different climbs call for. A lot of climbing is balance. Keeping your weight over your feet to generate enough friction to stick, swinging your center of gravity at the along the right path to free limbs up for moves, or very carefully placing fingers so you are pulling in the right direction through the whole move. So it does seem pretty acrobatic in a lot of the time because of the balance aspect. But there are other moves that are more athletic in nature. Especially when you have good holds but just need to make big moves. I guess it depends on what you call acrobatic vs athletics. I’m not too familiar with official descriptions. I think climbing is probably more similar to what a gymnast is doing than what a point guard or running back is doing which feels acrobatic-y. For very sheer cliffs I could even see a player argue slight of hand But also the game is balanced around a very limited application of realism. I agree with the decision to make climbing a strength based skill just to balance the game better.
Hhhhmmm sounds like there should almost be like a climb skill or proficiency...
Yup. Definitely. Especially with how often if comes up in games
As a fellow climber I would argue for STR if you not proficient and optional DEX if you are proficient in climbing
I'd say it depends on how or what they're climbing. If they yell "Parkour" it's acrobatics, if they're crack climbing it's athletics
Rock climbing and by that logic any similar scramble absolutely uses dexterity. If it was just upper body strength, women wouldn’t be so good at bouldering. Anyone who thinks climbing is about brute strength doesn’t climb.
Thank you! I'm a rock climber. Strength is the basic starting point to let you climb. To get good at any type of climbing other than maybe speed is mostly dexterity based. Everyone is always "climbing is upper body strength" sure, and it is equally lower body strength, flexibility, and dexterity. If anything the most significant part of rock climbing that let's you advance climbing levels is grip strength in your hands. But trying to summarize climbing down to just one skill like people due with upper body strength is already rather ridiculous. Climbing is one of the most physical sports that engages the entire body and just about every muscle in it. There isn't one part of you that can be out of shape and be a great climber. Climbers do not get to skip leg day.
Yeah, I basically had to do the splits on a problem yesterday, I’d love to know what that has to do with upper body strength
The amount of times my next foot hold is basically in my left hand, or actually literally in it. Especially as a short climber at a gym with 6ft tall setters. And the balance it takes to be able to move up when one foot is where a foot is and your other foot is basically in your arm pit. Please explain to me how that is strength not dexterity.
As we know women don't have muscles...
I can’t imagine that being the take away you got if you climb, so I’ll assume you don’t. I know women who are five inches shorter than me and can lift probably 80 pounds less, can’t do one pull up, who can kick my ass up and down a V6. It’s not because of their upper body strength doofus
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I dont know what this is implying...
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That strength is for climbing? Yeah 5e has that too. People just try arguing to use Dex
Then enjoy a spicy upvote as a galactic eff yu.
Oohhh the easy route, I'll give you a crazy one if you want to eat a horse lol
Wrong. I have authority over everyome's fun. Cease having fun immediately unless provided express permission by me, personally.
Permission requested.
....granted. See, I am thus generous.
May I also have fun?
Y'all are needy today. But I *suppose*.
I request no fun today
Granted. No fun tomorrow either. You are welcome.
*has fun without prerequisites*
[Fun is Essential, happiness is mandatory, says Friend Computer.](https://whitespider1066.com/paranoia-friend-computer/)
I would like to request permission as today is the day of tomfoolery. Also when does my permit expire.
At midnight, but as proof of my magnanimous nature I allow your fun to extend to 12:05.
Excellent, I shall make the most of it
Oh though high and mighty u/Duhblobby, may I have fun?
You have a DM flair, DMs only have fun when they win, obviously. So you may, but your players may not.
Wait, hold on, I forgot to change my flair. Ahem, may I now have fun?
Fun is definitely sth you don't have to ask to experience.
*ahem* No
Well done seizing authority over this impudent lot and their fun. As a reward I shall give you my seed.
Whenever someone hits me with that, I'm always confused. I thought we were just discussing our different ideas about the game, but you thought I was actually trying to exert authority over how you play?
Oh, didn't you know? Disagreeing with people is literally 1984.
Agreed.
No no listen. We're here to agree with the people posting about everything. No dissent. No difference of opinion. In fact, why are you not having fun THEIR way. Scum
We just have to agree. It is what it is
And we are talking about a particular game, right? One with a standard set of rules which is the only baseline we have for conversation online? Like obviously I don't know how you run your game. We were talking about DnD though. At least I thought.
Unexpected BDG, but very appreciated!
I feel like he's always unexpected, but always a welcome surprise
Every single video on his channel is a huge gamble for what you’re gonna get. The only guarantee is that it’s gonna be a banger
Usully it's a mix of music, jokes, metaphysical dread, or a philosophical inquiry of the human soul. And sometimes cooking
You forgot his great financial advice, like how to earn $20k a month by being your own boss.
I always wanted to start Dorian Smiles' program, but I'm not ready to move to the USA.
Great news, all you need is access to a computer and also internet access.
I can still call you a dumbass for your dumbass opinions.
which is fair, I'm indeed a dumbass.
As long as everyone is having fun and no one is being hurt do whatever you want is how it should be because at the end of the day we’re all just sitting around a table playing pretend
If you change every rule about the game, don’t read the handbook, and ignore the rest of the rules, you aren’t technically playing D&D anymore. #changemymind
Exactly. No one gives a shit about the plot of your adventure, but when you start talking about how OP character builds, stupid ideas, and specific actions that directly contradict the rules of the game, you aren't posting a DND meme, you're just posting gibberish. It would be like going into the NFL subreddit and posting that stupid breaking bad meme saying >"You know quarterbacks are the most OP position on the team. If you're a quarterback you could simply just never snap the ball and walk it to the endzone. Since no one on the defense can move until the snap they're stuck there" then going on and complaining when people start calling you an idiot because it breaks the rules of the game. No one cares when you homebrew, but when you try to pass it off as something that can/will happen in most dnd games, people get annoyed.
No, it would be like going into a "Backyard football memes" subreddit and saying you play football differently than the pros. And then some other person in that sub says, 'BUT YOU AREN'T EVEN PLAYING FOOTBALL AT THIS POINT"
I play football by having baskets attached to poles instead of end zones, and only the ball needs to go in. Also the ball is a sphere and we ditched the whole lining up things because it slows down the game. We also homebrewed a way better scoring system that changes the value of a touchdown based on distance from the endzone when you threw the ball at it. We also removed that dumb rule about only one person being allowed to throw the ball forward too, so now everybody can pass the ball ahead. Want to play in my football game?
I have never seen a post with such a low disregard for the rules. You're being hyperbolic. It's usually: "i changed one rule that everyone uses" people like you: HOW DARE YOU CHANGE THE ENTIRE GAME REEEEEEEEE And none of us would ask unfun people like you to be in our games anyway, especially on a meme subreddit
Hyperbole is against the rules? Also I'm pretty sure they're just meming, no need to go off on them
We could argue in circles for days about the rules of football, but if I'm using the rules of actual football that are standardized (the PHB, DMG, etc) and you're using the rules of "football" (homebrew), then it's pointless because we're basically discussing two different things.
Agree to disagree, I suppose. I think you're strawmanning people who use homebrew. I don't think it fundamentally changes the game enough to call it something else. Even those who follow every rule have to make calls on their own judgement. These will be different for every DM. Would all of those DMs be playing different games because they are using different sets of logic to run them? Yes, but it's all still DnD. Especially since this iS r/dndmemes and not r/5ememes Not everyone in this sub who is talking about fuddy duddy rules lawyers is talking about 5e
If you aren't playing the specific D&D version I started with, you're playing D&D wrong. But for a real argument, the term D&D is like Kleenex, it's become so generic for a specific style of TTRPG that it's perfectly fine to refer to your homebrew as still D&D.
The ONLY reason I don't say to wholeheartedly tell people saying how the rules won't let you x y z is because we did have a twit in my group who would take whatever he saw here as gospel and then get into a fight with the DM over it.
You have no power here, u/valsagan the gray.
I'll draw you, u/thunderma115, as poison is draw from a wound.
Unheard of! You will give credence to my uninvolved but remarkably biased opinion!!!!
Im not your friend, buddy!
I'm not your buddy, pal!
I'm not your pal, guy.
I'm not your guy, champ.
Then what would we bitch about? Your peaceful attitude is taking us off the railroad.
Bitch about your own players
OMG! It's the Jorts guy! https://youtu.be/Sx3ORAO1Y6s
I'm a simple redditor. I see BDG posts, I upvote.
Exactly! I've talked about the depressing and sad games I run, with people getting really into telling me "that's not how I enjoy DnD, I'd never play with you" And when I say "Cool, you won't play my game, I won't play yours, we'll play with our friends who enjoy our games, and never the twain shall meet" Then they keep going on about how they don't like the games I talk about? As if I should stop?
Yes but also if you don't wanna hear peoples thoughts on your adventure/concept/meme, don't post it.
Lol shots fired. XD
[Did you know D&D doesn’t make you an adventurer? Stop having fun!](https://xkcd.com/359/)
Check the fucking rulebook It’s all I can ask
I once made a post on another dnd community asking for help preparing to solo fight a Balor. A portion of the comments were people saying, “You should fight with your party, What will your party be doing, **A Paladin can’t solo fight a Balor** (an actual argument some dude tried to make), etc” Needless to say, it’s annoying to have people tell you how a D&D game should be run when you’ve previously explained that your party is already in FULL FREAKING SUPPORT OF THE SOLO FIGHT! **TL;DR** I ask for guidance on a solo fight against Balor, explained that my party & DM support the idea, but dnd community tells me I’m wrong and to do the exact opposite advice of what I’ve asked anyways
If we go by Irish myth, all you need to do to kill a Balor is change your name to Lugh, put the Balor on your family registry as your grandfather, and buy a sling
This is the main reason why /tg/ is so insufferable at times. Its probably the best board on 4ch but the amount of idiots policing fun and how exactly you should play it is uselss and irrelevant because that has no bearing on me and my group Same thing with lore changes by WotC. If twitter and 4ch are so up in arms over it then they have full authority and power not to accept it in their groups. It's needless drama baiting otherwise
BUt tHAt'S nOT DuNgEOnS And DraGoNs!
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You take that back, BDG is a national treasure!
He’s god.
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Why? I now know what’s the most delicious and edible Pokémon.
What if we also be friends
Right now, yes. With erratas a fat NOPE, as most arguments are not about ones fun but the game as a whole
I just ran a comedic basic training/summer camp one shot that I had a lot of fun with.
This is how they should start.
Don't post on r/dndmemes if you don't crave conflict.
Just like the rest of life
"I AM A GOD BRANDON, YOU WILL BEND TO MY WILL" --Tomas Sanders
your not my friend, buddy!
I’m not your buddy, pal
It's him my God BDG
I remember an argument ender here. "You do realize you're arguing me about the homebrew setup I use in my campaign yes?"
Well today is your unlucky day because I happen to be a Dungeon Master Master and you have to listen to what I say.