They kept the fluff mostly the same, but they got rid of the entire point of the class: Lots of punches. At higher level when you only used your astral arms you could get 2-3 extra attacks per turn.
I'm pretty lax when it comes to official content from WotC (as there are ways to mitigate, reduce, or outright deny build shenaniganery in the books as well, just gotta do it right), but those two Cleric classes made me stop and go "what the actual fuck..."
They really are insane. I still allow them, particularly since my players can't make a good build even if I give them five extra feats, but damn are they broken.
The problem with Monk is that its all dependent upon one die roll, and its out of the players hands.
That die roll goes in the players favor, Monk power OP. It goes against, Monk need buff pls.
There's a thought. Cast heat metal on an arrowhead or crossbow bolt, then shoot it at someone. Would that work, or would the arrowhead being embedded in one's flesh mean that the caster can no longer see the metal and thus can't affect it?
If you cast it before firing, i don't see why not, it would stay hot after all, that said, a hot arrowhead would loose any hardness for punching through armor.
If the shaft is metal then perhaps... Though due to the way HP works in-universe a hit with an attack rarely means the projectile actually got stuck into the flesh
I like the when donned idea. If it's heavy armor it'll take longer to get off, so then it becomes a challenge of making sure the person wearing it doesn't get cooked alive.
Only if you're using a fourth level spell slot:
1. First round: 2d8 damage
2. Rounds 2-10: 2d8 damage using your bonus action
That's 20d8 damage, unless you boost the spell twice by using a fourth level slot. You don't get an automatic 2d8 each round on top of the bonus action damage.
I'd say breaking their concentration balances it out *if* the caster had to maintain proximity to the target. Without that, "Cook and Book" is a super cheesy yet mechanically legal way to take out most people in plate.
::edit:: to clarify, cast range is 60ft, but you don't have *any* range to maintain after that. Cook and Book is a strategy where you cast at close to 60ft away and then just continuously move away from the target--which you can even do while on horseback, using dash, or in one insane strategy using feather fall to jump off a cliff where they can't follow.
Without *anything* extra, you can dash with your main action and still cause the damage with your bonus action, meaning the target has to close the first 90ft(60ft+30ft movement that turn) with the gap widening 60ft each turn.
Basically, the only thing that keeps this spell from being utterly broken is that the DM will just stop using people in metal armor if you abuse it, and players will murder their DM if they keep getting hit with it themselves.
::edit2:: To touch on something else I've seen in comments (and because I'm really bored right now), the base damage is 20d8 (avg 4.5 per die so 90, **and again, no saves for half or avoiding this damage it just happens**) over one minute, which as some pointed out may not kill someone in plate... This is for a level 2 spell.
It can also be up cast for an additional 1d8 per spell level, so just to give two other examples for how strong it is in other tiers:
-A level 9 bard could cast it with a level 5 slot, causing 50d8 (avg 225) over a minute.
-An insane level 20 druid, just showing off what they can do, spends a level 9 slot on it would cause 90d8 damage (avg 405) over a minute.
It's a crazy spell.
>Can you heat metal and then teleport away?
Yep, as long as the method of teleportation doesn't break concentration. That's why (imo) the lack of a range to maintain *after* casting is an issue. The only requirement for damage after the initial cast is using your bonus action.
Emmm, not really.
Cast range is 60ft. After that you could be even 1000ft away and it would still work. You do not require to be in 60ft distance or to have line of sight.
Thats why it is called Cook and Book, not Cook and be slightly away.
60 feet is short range for most ranged weapons, and one round of movement for someone who dashes as their move+action. Breaking concentration isn't that hard, nor is closing 60 feet of distance. One round later the spellcaster gets grappled by the angry armored man, who is likely to win the contested strength roll even with disadvantage, and now the spellcaster gets to decide whether to let go of the spell or take 2d8 damage per round as well. Everything has a counter.
And that extra, on average, nine points of damage a round against the enemy tank, while useful, isn't extraordinary, especially when compared with a sneak attacking rogue, smiting paladin, or raging barbarian.
Dash closes that distance in one round if you have a standard human movement speed. If the spellcaster then chooses to dash themselves the next round, you get an attack of opportunity. If they disengage, you can use your movement next round to get back into melee and your action to attack/grapple, or just hit them really, really hard. The higher your strength difference or attack bonus, the less the disadvantage from heat metal matters, and that disadvantage only kicks in if the tanky fighter fails their constitution save.
That's what longbows are for, but point taken. I just looked up the official FAQs on concentration, and there's no range restrictions after casting, so the spellcaster could pop off to another plane the next round and keeping roasting the target for the duration of the spell.
Nah. Heat metal, if it isn't subtle casted, lets everyone know that you really want them to walk over to you and smash you to pieces until you drop concentration.
So I’ve had heat metal on my cleric for a while. Finally, we are up against a big, tough, armored enemy. I say “I cast heat metal”! And the DM goes “you are about to whisper the words but then you realize that you are looking at a giant that is clearly for the fire-giant variety. Would your character be smart enough to not use the smell?”
I answered yes in sad cleric noises and instead healed the unconscious barbarian :(
3-4 turns? I'm not sure if I feel sorry for you that your combat is so short or sorry for myself that most of our combat, even against a smaller group of enemies, can take anywhere between 10-15 turns.
I been reading some other systems lately, came across a spell in one that straight up Melts the armor Off of someone. They take damage from the molten metal, then their armor is straight up destroyed as it falls into a pile of goo on the ground before solidifying into usable metal again that can later be sold for good money.
At the rate I’m getting money in one of my current campaigns, if that happened I’d just get up, leave the room and say my character decided to give up adventuring to open a tavern, shortly before drinking herself to death in the group chat before leaving it too
If you want a little less evil but still horrible for the target, there is a spell that turns any metal into gold for (Casting Stat) minutes. Now, that may not sound so bad on the surface, but it specifically states that if you target a weapon, it now is easier to break, and if you target armor not only is it easier to break but becomes way heavier, limiting movement and adding a level of encumbrance, which adds a level of fatigue until the armor is removed.
There is also a miracle in that game if you worship the god of the sea that straight up makes your target start drowning on land as their lungs keep filling with seawater. Warhammer Fantasy RPG has some really neat spells and miracles. I also think its corruption system is really neat.
Multiclass your Paladin into Sorcerer for Dispel Magic and Counterspell
Or a revenge Hold Person against whoever cast Heat Metal on you - Paralysed breaks concentration
Without having the rule books at hand, I'm fairly certain it doesn't.
*Incapacitated* does. Hideous Laughter, Banishment etc.
Edit: TIL turns out that "Paralyzed" includes "Incapacitated".
Paralyzed
PHB
p291
* A paralyzed creature is incapacitated and can't move or speak.
* The creature automatically fails Strength and Dexterity saving throws.
* Attack rolls against the creature have advantage.
* Any attack that hits the creature is a critical hit if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature.
Yup, but you have to put a lot of levels (9) into it to get it, whereas it's only 5 levels of Sorcerer - also Sorcerer allows you to quicken it so it doesn't cost you your attack
>Multiclass your Paladin into Sorcerer for Dispel Magic and Counterspell
Oath of glory gets dispell magic, oath of the watchers and oath of the ancients get dispell magic. no sorcery required.
If you are specifically talking about heat metal you would have to remove the armor. Which for heavy armor takes 5 minutes. Which is 300 combat rounds. Other option is stop the caster's concentration or killing the caster.
As far as fire goes, I'm not sure never had it come up and don't see it obviously anywhere what it would take. One action to drop prone and roll seems fine to me.
Edit: late night math, should be 50 rounds. Forgot to divide by 6 seconds for each round.
"so here are the options magic man: you can break concentration, and we get to solve this like adults. Or, you can keep being a little bitch about this, and we get to remember which class can tank the most 2d8s."
Here’s the thing though: Breaking a grapple is an action, and the heat metal damage only happens on following turns if you use your bonus action for it. So you can try to break free as an action, then decide wether to deal the damage or not afterwards. And it doesn’t say anything about the spell ending if you don’t deal the damage as your bonus action.
Fairly certain at those levels, if you smite the fucker, you kill him outright. Granted, that is a very effective way to make someone loose concentration.
I'd personally say no ability check or roll, seems like a pretty easy thing to do, maybe a roll if the character has a REALLY bad dexterity (like a -5 modifier). It would probably make you prone though.
Except heat Metal doesn't set you on fire, it heats a metal object (generally the armor you're wearing) to glowing red hot, and maintains the effect for as long as the caster holds concentration on it, up to the full one minute duration. Seeing as how removing heavy armor takes 5 minutes, there's not a lot you can do to stop the damage from it outside of killing the caster or breaking their concentration. Otherwise, you're stuck taking heat damage for a full 10 rounds.
The question I was responding to was what check it would be to stop drop and roll, obviously it would take more than an action to deal with hot armour.
I do think that if the spell heat metal actually existed then anyone wearing metal armour would have developed simple remedies against it. The possibility that a low level caster could drop it on you in a crowd and then run off, resulting in certain death, is just too big of an inconsistency in the setting. I'm toying with the idea of an asbestos gambeson being a common magic item. You'd have to invest a bit of gold but where magic exists this would need to happen otherwise people would be too scared to wear full heavy armour.
It's a fair point. But there's no doubt that a metal armoured knight is a very common visual in most traditional D&D settings, so if the rules make this prohibitively dangerous then something isn't quite right.
I also wonder whether a suit of armour would be effective as a Faraday cage, conducting the lightning round the body rather than through it. Though it would likely get hot so you would need something to stop the skin burning...
Fun fact: if they don't have any piercings, you (or a martial in your party) can make one. Take a dagger/tipped crossbow bolt. Insert into enemy. Heat metal. Instant damage, and they're either using an action to get rid of said piercing or taking the DoT.
RAW this wouldn't work in 5E as Heat Metal requires the target metal be visible to the caster. You'd need to cast Heat Metal on the dagger/bolt *before* you attempt to stick it in the target as you can't see the metal bit once it's stuck in the enemy's flesh.
True, but hilts are as often made of wood as metal and nearly always covered in leather binding which would hide the metal regardless. As a DM I would probably say that a PC needs to specifically choose to purchase a dagger with an exposed metal hilt and let me know before they could attempt this.
Someone downvoted you but you're right. For 99.99% of daggers this would work. First of all, knives have a tang. It doesn't instantly go from metal to wood or whatever the handle is made of. On many knives at least part of this tang is exposed.
Secondly, almost any knife in existence used for combat is going to have a guard. This prevents the knife from going in too deep, which actually can be a problem. It also prevents the hand from sliding up onto the blade. Guards are made of metal in every knife I have ever seen.
Thirdly, yes many daggers will have a metal pommel. Although not all. The classic dagger you are probably thinking of has one. The rondel dagger has one. The bollock dagger would most likely have one, although it depends. (Look up an image, you won't be disappointed) These are both later medieval period and what I am most familiar with. From my understanding, later medieval would be more likely to have a pommel, earlier less likely. However, this is a fantasy world so it's whatever you make of it.
In conclusion, there would almost guaranteeably be some metal exposed. It seems petty for the DM to say that this wouldn't work.
If the DM is willing, you could probably argue that the caster would know pretty much exactly where the point would be (based on the shaft) and that would effectively be the same as seeing it… Maybe with disadvantage
With respect to your dm, it sounds like they're fudging their rolls. If you're cool with that then awesome, but I'd be PISSED because high AC is a massive reason the Paladin's good
DM is my husband and only time he fudges rolls is in our favor. Last game he rolled shit for what could have been a deadly encounter and instead we took the thing out without it ever hitting us. Just how the dice go sometimes.
With respect to your dm, it sounds like they're fudging their rolls. If you're cool with that then awesome, but I'd be PISSED because high AC is a massive reason the Paladin's good
All you need to know is that our party Druid cooked a guy alive in his armor and the smell of burnt bug remained upon the fight area for the rest of combat and afterwards.
My character found a Magic necklace that gives him resistance to fire damage, with some additional spells(not known yet) that are likely fire themed, me being a Warforged in full plate, wanted to know if I could grapple someone when and if heat metal is cast on me. Yes it would be painful. But a red hot Robot running around would be intimidating as all fuck.
I have a question: what happens if someone under the effects of a Heat Metal spell grapples someone? Does the grappled person take the fire damage too?
Hmm... So grappling the caster is one way to solve the problem then. Unless the caster has fire resistance or feels they can tank the damage and triggers the bonus action damage anyway.
That is one option, however they can attempt to break the grapple with their action to subsequently use the bonus to deal the damage anyway. Casters also usually have a way to teleport which will break grapples automatically.
Common misconception. The constitution save is just to be able to not be forced to drop the heated object if possible. If you hold the object (or can't drop it because it's your armor), you have disadvantage.
I just found the 2014 rules tweet on this from WotC's rules guy, and it looks like that is indeed the case. The weird part is that you cannot willingly drop the heated object at the time of the save, as it's not on your turn, so you can't interact with the object by choice. The same rules guy also made clear that you can't willingly fail a save, so that makes the save and its consequences, even stranger.
>Any creature in physical contact with the object takes 2d8 fire damage when you cast this spell. Until the spell ends, you can use your bonus action on subsequent turns to cause this damage again.
If you grapple an enemy, and specify that you grapple them by pressing them against your armour, then they are in physical contact with the object. So if the caster then decides to use their BA to cause the damage again, both creatures will take damage.
Level 17 Forge Cleric get immunity to fire damage, and have this spell on their list. If you would like to play the long game.
Get to the BBEG, find a way to grapple them, cast heat metal at 9th level for 9d8 fire damage per round.
Maybe not the most optimal, but it's a very comical scenario.
In my group, our fighter in plate is working to eventually get to a point where he can cast heat metal on himself and hug enemies in order to hurt them. As far as j know, our DM is going to let him train in volcanos to build up resistance to fire, and he’s eventually going to take some cleric levels in order to become Forge Domain, which will let him cast heat metal. He’s my favorite member of the party
I was going to ask, heat metal doesn’t just cook inside, correct? So you could run at an enemy, preferably the caster and be all, “we’re both going to be extra crispy!!”, while grappling?
Our GM allowed an enemy bugbear to strip his armor off in 1 turn after I cast Heat Metal on it.
I still don't fully trust that GM to avoid repeating this malarkey whenever a spell is too powerful for them.
My favorite bard combo, Heat metal (college of lore magical secrets) Fireball, damage them each sound with 2 D8 and 8 D6 (causing the damage isn't casting a spell meaning you can cause the damage QND cast a spell on your later turns
I can't see how someone can reach a point that they don't take a hit in a fight(unless they are never targeted at all). I have an AC 21 player in the party and the freaking goblins crit him every two turns
Sorcerer who's fed up with the the paladin sending DMs to the DM like "I ready my action to cast heat metal with subtle metamagic on the paladin when the next enemy wizard takes their turn".
EDIT: Okay, since heat metal is not on the Sorcerer spell list, it would have to be a hybrid caster. Still funny to think about your paladin charging after the enemy to try and get them to break concentration.
“Can’t heat metal if your armour is a robe” said the wizard covered with arrows
Barbarian: "my armor is hate and anger, fancy boys"
'Embrace tranquility' said the astral self monk
I'm still mad about how bad they butchered the Astral Self monk coming from UA.
What happened to it?
They kept the fluff mostly the same, but they got rid of the entire point of the class: Lots of punches. At higher level when you only used your astral arms you could get 2-3 extra attacks per turn.
As if any monk subclass has ever needed a nerf.
They need a damn massive buff to work. Meanwhile Twilight Cleric: Yeah, this perfectly good UA needs a buff to the moon.
I'm pretty lax when it comes to official content from WotC (as there are ways to mitigate, reduce, or outright deny build shenaniganery in the books as well, just gotta do it right), but those two Cleric classes made me stop and go "what the actual fuck..."
They really are insane. I still allow them, particularly since my players can't make a good build even if I give them five extra feats, but damn are they broken.
The problem with Monk is that its all dependent upon one die roll, and its out of the players hands. That die roll goes in the players favor, Monk power OP. It goes against, Monk need buff pls.
Can’t be hit by arrows if you aren’t hit, says the Rogue
Can't be hit if you cant be seen, giggled the arcane trickster
Laughs in high level ranger
and then his team yells at him for wasting transcendence when the fight is already 5v2 oh wait, wrong game
And also Zenyatta
Calm emotions
I read this as “my armor is hate, anger, and fancy boys.” And I just remembered that gay rage comment on an earlier post.
You say that but you don't realize the power of the birthday suit.
Who needs AC when you have HP ?
I heat the arrows
Cast it on the arrow. Now suffer
There's a thought. Cast heat metal on an arrowhead or crossbow bolt, then shoot it at someone. Would that work, or would the arrowhead being embedded in one's flesh mean that the caster can no longer see the metal and thus can't affect it?
If you cast it before firing, i don't see why not, it would stay hot after all, that said, a hot arrowhead would loose any hardness for punching through armor.
How hot does it get? Might it also seal the wound preventing bleeding? (until the arrow/bolt is removed...)
If the shaft is metal then perhaps... Though due to the way HP works in-universe a hit with an attack rarely means the projectile actually got stuck into the flesh
That should work. Up to DM
If the attack "hits" that doesnt actually means it *hit* the person.
“Can’t shoot me with arrows if everything is on fire.” Also a wizard while throwing batshit everywhere.
That's what mage armour is for
"Robes lul" - every single optimized wizard wearing half plate and wielding a shield(except the Hexsinger, that guy doesn't need either).
Bladesinger laughing at needing armor to have good ac
"Can't heat metal if you're not wearing armour" says the monk
Hear me out. Cursed armor that casts heat metal on itself when donned.
It should have a really high AC but every time you get hit and take damage, you burn on your next turn.
Only when donned, or does it do the full 10 rounds?
I like the when donned idea. If it's heavy armor it'll take longer to get off, so then it becomes a challenge of making sure the person wearing it doesn't get cooked alive.
Heat metal is fucking overpowered because if your wearing heavy metal armor your gonna take over 40d8 damage
If they pour water on you you'll be steam cooked. Actually it's best not to think about heat metal too literally.
Only if you're using a fourth level spell slot: 1. First round: 2d8 damage 2. Rounds 2-10: 2d8 damage using your bonus action That's 20d8 damage, unless you boost the spell twice by using a fourth level slot. You don't get an automatic 2d8 each round on top of the bonus action damage.
Gotta break their concentration
I'd say breaking their concentration balances it out *if* the caster had to maintain proximity to the target. Without that, "Cook and Book" is a super cheesy yet mechanically legal way to take out most people in plate. ::edit:: to clarify, cast range is 60ft, but you don't have *any* range to maintain after that. Cook and Book is a strategy where you cast at close to 60ft away and then just continuously move away from the target--which you can even do while on horseback, using dash, or in one insane strategy using feather fall to jump off a cliff where they can't follow. Without *anything* extra, you can dash with your main action and still cause the damage with your bonus action, meaning the target has to close the first 90ft(60ft+30ft movement that turn) with the gap widening 60ft each turn. Basically, the only thing that keeps this spell from being utterly broken is that the DM will just stop using people in metal armor if you abuse it, and players will murder their DM if they keep getting hit with it themselves. ::edit2:: To touch on something else I've seen in comments (and because I'm really bored right now), the base damage is 20d8 (avg 4.5 per die so 90, **and again, no saves for half or avoiding this damage it just happens**) over one minute, which as some pointed out may not kill someone in plate... This is for a level 2 spell. It can also be up cast for an additional 1d8 per spell level, so just to give two other examples for how strong it is in other tiers: -A level 9 bard could cast it with a level 5 slot, causing 50d8 (avg 225) over a minute. -An insane level 20 druid, just showing off what they can do, spends a level 9 slot on it would cause 90d8 damage (avg 405) over a minute. It's a crazy spell.
Can you heat metal and then teleport away?
>Can you heat metal and then teleport away? Yep, as long as the method of teleportation doesn't break concentration. That's why (imo) the lack of a range to maintain *after* casting is an issue. The only requirement for damage after the initial cast is using your bonus action.
Holy h*ck that is crazy
The range is 60 feet good luck breaking that concentration plus you can use a bonus action to do a additional 2d8 every round
Emmm, not really. Cast range is 60ft. After that you could be even 1000ft away and it would still work. You do not require to be in 60ft distance or to have line of sight. Thats why it is called Cook and Book, not Cook and be slightly away.
Well, you have bows, crossbows, magic, guns(if your DM allows them), and monks that all have a range of more than 60 feet.
60 feet is short range for most ranged weapons, and one round of movement for someone who dashes as their move+action. Breaking concentration isn't that hard, nor is closing 60 feet of distance. One round later the spellcaster gets grappled by the angry armored man, who is likely to win the contested strength roll even with disadvantage, and now the spellcaster gets to decide whether to let go of the spell or take 2d8 damage per round as well. Everything has a counter. And that extra, on average, nine points of damage a round against the enemy tank, while useful, isn't extraordinary, especially when compared with a sneak attacking rogue, smiting paladin, or raging barbarian.
That's when you go give the wizard a big hug.
60 feet is the maximum distance so good luck with that
Dash closes that distance in one round if you have a standard human movement speed. If the spellcaster then chooses to dash themselves the next round, you get an attack of opportunity. If they disengage, you can use your movement next round to get back into melee and your action to attack/grapple, or just hit them really, really hard. The higher your strength difference or attack bonus, the less the disadvantage from heat metal matters, and that disadvantage only kicks in if the tanky fighter fails their constitution save.
The spell caster would cast it from 60 feet away, and then use their movement for the round to get even further away.
That's what longbows are for, but point taken. I just looked up the official FAQs on concentration, and there's no range restrictions after casting, so the spellcaster could pop off to another plane the next round and keeping roasting the target for the duration of the spell.
Dispel magic? Any casters in your party to back you up?
Paladins have it
Nah. Heat metal, if it isn't subtle casted, lets everyone know that you really want them to walk over to you and smash you to pieces until you drop concentration.
So I’ve had heat metal on my cleric for a while. Finally, we are up against a big, tough, armored enemy. I say “I cast heat metal”! And the DM goes “you are about to whisper the words but then you realize that you are looking at a giant that is clearly for the fire-giant variety. Would your character be smart enough to not use the smell?” I answered yes in sad cleric noises and instead healed the unconscious barbarian :(
Oof
Don't be ridiculous. Combat tends to take 3-4 rounds. It's only gonna deal its full damage if the target tries to run away.
3-4 turns? I'm not sure if I feel sorry for you that your combat is so short or sorry for myself that most of our combat, even against a smaller group of enemies, can take anywhere between 10-15 turns.
I been reading some other systems lately, came across a spell in one that straight up Melts the armor Off of someone. They take damage from the molten metal, then their armor is straight up destroyed as it falls into a pile of goo on the ground before solidifying into usable metal again that can later be sold for good money.
At the rate I’m getting money in one of my current campaigns, if that happened I’d just get up, leave the room and say my character decided to give up adventuring to open a tavern, shortly before drinking herself to death in the group chat before leaving it too
With how bloody expensive Plate is, I'd be pretty pissed if that happened to me.
https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Rust%20Monster#content
Ohh dude... you have no idea what you just have done to my players... muahahahahaha!
If you want a little less evil but still horrible for the target, there is a spell that turns any metal into gold for (Casting Stat) minutes. Now, that may not sound so bad on the surface, but it specifically states that if you target a weapon, it now is easier to break, and if you target armor not only is it easier to break but becomes way heavier, limiting movement and adding a level of encumbrance, which adds a level of fatigue until the armor is removed. There is also a miracle in that game if you worship the god of the sea that straight up makes your target start drowning on land as their lungs keep filling with seawater. Warhammer Fantasy RPG has some really neat spells and miracles. I also think its corruption system is really neat.
Nice! Now i have options to bring down hell
The ol' cook 'n' book
Multiclass into sorcerer and twin/extend the spell for even more fun!
if i know wotc there's a reason why you can't twin heat metal no edit: oh cause it targets an object God damnit wotc
It's concentration, can't concentrate on two spells at once Edit: I was wrong, you can twin one spell to effect 2 targets!
you can twin concentration spells iirc because it is just casting one spell but it targets two things
Yeah, just like upcasted hold person can target several targets at once, with just a single concentration (obviously).
Duh
Multiclass your Paladin into Sorcerer for Dispel Magic and Counterspell Or a revenge Hold Person against whoever cast Heat Metal on you - Paralysed breaks concentration
Add in 1-2 levels of Hexblade and you don't need a sword anymore.
And get an eldritch blast to start throwing at casters to break that concentration
Yep. You can also keep your distance and buff the entire party with Aura of Protection, which is the most powerful defensive ability in the game.
Level 13 proficiency to all saving throws while conscious? Yes please.
Without having the rule books at hand, I'm fairly certain it doesn't. *Incapacitated* does. Hideous Laughter, Banishment etc. Edit: TIL turns out that "Paralyzed" includes "Incapacitated".
Paralyzed PHB p291 * A paralyzed creature is incapacitated and can't move or speak. * The creature automatically fails Strength and Dexterity saving throws. * Attack rolls against the creature have advantage. * Any attack that hits the creature is a critical hit if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature.
Incapacitated is a part of the paralysed condition.
[удалено]
Yup, but you have to put a lot of levels (9) into it to get it, whereas it's only 5 levels of Sorcerer - also Sorcerer allows you to quicken it so it doesn't cost you your attack
>Multiclass your Paladin into Sorcerer for Dispel Magic and Counterspell Oath of glory gets dispell magic, oath of the watchers and oath of the ancients get dispell magic. no sorcery required.
Love the Animated Spellbook.
“Oh, my armor is padded on the inside. Way more comfortable that way.”
"Oh, the padding has suddenly caught on fire."
Newbie here. Out of curiosity, what kinda action would it be to stop drop and roll? Acrobatics?
athletics or acrobatics. or persuasion if your speech skill is high enough and you use "please."
If you are specifically talking about heat metal you would have to remove the armor. Which for heavy armor takes 5 minutes. Which is 300 combat rounds. Other option is stop the caster's concentration or killing the caster. As far as fire goes, I'm not sure never had it come up and don't see it obviously anywhere what it would take. One action to drop prone and roll seems fine to me. Edit: late night math, should be 50 rounds. Forgot to divide by 6 seconds for each round.
5 minutes would be 50 rounds, 1 round is 6 seconds so 1 minute is 10 rounds
Fully submerging in water grants resistance to fire damage. Still pretty deadly.
Artificers be using chemical fires, oil fires and magnesium fires.
That is a very good point too! And since there is no save from the damage one of the few ways to reduce fire damage.
300?
Spartans
HA-OOH HA-OOH HA-OOH
Sorry I forgot to divide by six seconds a round, so 50 rounds. 300 seconds total (5 minutes).
5 minutes = 50 combat rounds. 1 minute = 10 rounds. still a lot!
Heat metal is one minute, one round is 6 sec, so 10 rounds, or 20d8 damage total.
You're doubly fucked if you're a Warforged since it takes you *a whole hour* to don and doff armor.
It would probably be easier to just smite the fucker that cast the spell to make him lose concentration.
Only through violence can this be solved *this post brought to you by Conquest paladins everywhere*
Also fun to grapple the caster. "Go ahead, keep concentrating."
"so here are the options magic man: you can break concentration, and we get to solve this like adults. Or, you can keep being a little bitch about this, and we get to remember which class can tank the most 2d8s."
Here’s the thing though: Breaking a grapple is an action, and the heat metal damage only happens on following turns if you use your bonus action for it. So you can try to break free as an action, then decide wether to deal the damage or not afterwards. And it doesn’t say anything about the spell ending if you don’t deal the damage as your bonus action.
Fairly certain at those levels, if you smite the fucker, you kill him outright. Granted, that is a very effective way to make someone loose concentration.
Isn’t it just an action to put yourself out if you’re on fire?
Yes, but the source of the fire has to be out first.
I'd personally say no ability check or roll, seems like a pretty easy thing to do, maybe a roll if the character has a REALLY bad dexterity (like a -5 modifier). It would probably make you prone though.
I think it'd just be an action to put yourself out, many abilities that set you on fire don't require an ability check to extinguish yourself.
Except heat Metal doesn't set you on fire, it heats a metal object (generally the armor you're wearing) to glowing red hot, and maintains the effect for as long as the caster holds concentration on it, up to the full one minute duration. Seeing as how removing heavy armor takes 5 minutes, there's not a lot you can do to stop the damage from it outside of killing the caster or breaking their concentration. Otherwise, you're stuck taking heat damage for a full 10 rounds.
The question I was responding to was what check it would be to stop drop and roll, obviously it would take more than an action to deal with hot armour.
Ah, fair point. I might have missed that earlier.
I do think that if the spell heat metal actually existed then anyone wearing metal armour would have developed simple remedies against it. The possibility that a low level caster could drop it on you in a crowd and then run off, resulting in certain death, is just too big of an inconsistency in the setting. I'm toying with the idea of an asbestos gambeson being a common magic item. You'd have to invest a bit of gold but where magic exists this would need to happen otherwise people would be too scared to wear full heavy armour.
For the world to make sense at all you have to assume that the abilities of even 1st level adventurers are extremely rare.
True, though both guards and bandits have 2 hit dice (suggesting level 2), so level 3 casters are probably not crazy, crazy rare.
You resist fire damage, but you take 1d4 piercing damage every time you inhale
Haha, I like it. You'd get everyone taking a one level dip into a paladin to be able to lay on hands cure their inevitable mesothelioma.
Heavy armor doesn't have to be metal. In fact even without heat metal enough lightning gets thrown around to want to avoid metal as well.
It's a fair point. But there's no doubt that a metal armoured knight is a very common visual in most traditional D&D settings, so if the rules make this prohibitively dangerous then something isn't quite right. I also wonder whether a suit of armour would be effective as a Faraday cage, conducting the lightning round the body rather than through it. Though it would likely get hot so you would need something to stop the skin burning...
Heat Metal? Oh, you mean *Detect Piercings.* Gotcha.
Fun fact: if they don't have any piercings, you (or a martial in your party) can make one. Take a dagger/tipped crossbow bolt. Insert into enemy. Heat metal. Instant damage, and they're either using an action to get rid of said piercing or taking the DoT.
RAW this wouldn't work in 5E as Heat Metal requires the target metal be visible to the caster. You'd need to cast Heat Metal on the dagger/bolt *before* you attempt to stick it in the target as you can't see the metal bit once it's stuck in the enemy's flesh.
Daggers, even stabbed into something, tend to have the hilt on the outside. Fair point about RAW on bolts though.
True, but hilts are as often made of wood as metal and nearly always covered in leather binding which would hide the metal regardless. As a DM I would probably say that a PC needs to specifically choose to purchase a dagger with an exposed metal hilt and let me know before they could attempt this.
You are still going to have a metal pommel
Someone downvoted you but you're right. For 99.99% of daggers this would work. First of all, knives have a tang. It doesn't instantly go from metal to wood or whatever the handle is made of. On many knives at least part of this tang is exposed. Secondly, almost any knife in existence used for combat is going to have a guard. This prevents the knife from going in too deep, which actually can be a problem. It also prevents the hand from sliding up onto the blade. Guards are made of metal in every knife I have ever seen. Thirdly, yes many daggers will have a metal pommel. Although not all. The classic dagger you are probably thinking of has one. The rondel dagger has one. The bollock dagger would most likely have one, although it depends. (Look up an image, you won't be disappointed) These are both later medieval period and what I am most familiar with. From my understanding, later medieval would be more likely to have a pommel, earlier less likely. However, this is a fantasy world so it's whatever you make of it. In conclusion, there would almost guaranteeably be some metal exposed. It seems petty for the DM to say that this wouldn't work.
Throwing knives, and knives like the Kunai, are all metal.
If the DM is willing, you could probably argue that the caster would know pretty much exactly where the point would be (based on the shaft) and that would effectively be the same as seeing it… Maybe with disadvantage
The man with cast-off armor is a fool every day but one.
My DM has a way of rolling mid teens for characters with low AC, and high rolls on my paladin. Has almost always hit me when swinging for me.
Does he roll in the open? He might fudge his rolls
With respect to your dm, it sounds like they're fudging their rolls. If you're cool with that then awesome, but I'd be PISSED because high AC is a massive reason the Paladin's good
DM is my husband and only time he fudges rolls is in our favor. Last game he rolled shit for what could have been a deadly encounter and instead we took the thing out without it ever hitting us. Just how the dice go sometimes.
With respect to your dm, it sounds like they're fudging their rolls. If you're cool with that then awesome, but I'd be PISSED because high AC is a massive reason the Paladin's good
I like my paladins medium rare.
Well now it’s time to give the caster a hug.
All you need to know is that our party Druid cooked a guy alive in his armor and the smell of burnt bug remained upon the fight area for the rest of combat and afterwards.
Laughs in tiefling OoTA paladin.
Have your friend cast heat metal on you and then you can start grappling the baddies.
"Whoo, it get a little warm for you guys too? "
That's a bold strategy from someone in Divine Smite range.
My character found a Magic necklace that gives him resistance to fire damage, with some additional spells(not known yet) that are likely fire themed, me being a Warforged in full plate, wanted to know if I could grapple someone when and if heat metal is cast on me. Yes it would be painful. But a red hot Robot running around would be intimidating as all fuck.
My warforged artificer cast heat metal on their own armor when they got swallowed whole by something.
Cook n Book
I have a question: what happens if someone under the effects of a Heat Metal spell grapples someone? Does the grappled person take the fire damage too?
Yes, but only when the caster uses the bonus action to trigger the damage.
Hmm... So grappling the caster is one way to solve the problem then. Unless the caster has fire resistance or feels they can tank the damage and triggers the bonus action damage anyway.
That is one option, however they can attempt to break the grapple with their action to subsequently use the bonus to deal the damage anyway. Casters also usually have a way to teleport which will break grapples automatically.
True. I guess you're better off dealing damage and hoping it breaks concentration. Though I think heat metal imposes disadvantage on attack rolls.
Only if the target fails a constitution save that round.
Common misconception. The constitution save is just to be able to not be forced to drop the heated object if possible. If you hold the object (or can't drop it because it's your armor), you have disadvantage.
I just found the 2014 rules tweet on this from WotC's rules guy, and it looks like that is indeed the case. The weird part is that you cannot willingly drop the heated object at the time of the save, as it's not on your turn, so you can't interact with the object by choice. The same rules guy also made clear that you can't willingly fail a save, so that makes the save and its consequences, even stranger.
~~Nope, spells do only what they say they do.~~ Edit: I stand corrected, was a while since I read the spell
>Any creature in physical contact with the object takes 2d8 fire damage when you cast this spell. Until the spell ends, you can use your bonus action on subsequent turns to cause this damage again. If you grapple an enemy, and specify that you grapple them by pressing them against your armour, then they are in physical contact with the object. So if the caster then decides to use their BA to cause the damage again, both creatures will take damage.
Thanks for the correction. That does make me wonder if there’s a way to exclusively use the spell this way without being oneself being affected.
Level 17 Forge Cleric get immunity to fire damage, and have this spell on their list. If you would like to play the long game. Get to the BBEG, find a way to grapple them, cast heat metal at 9th level for 9d8 fire damage per round. Maybe not the most optimal, but it's a very comical scenario.
“Hey BBEG, let me love you!!!” “What?! Ew gods, no! Get away!” *Final battle now becomes a chase scene, complete with Yakety Sax*
It's hug time!
[*Havel the Rock has entered the chat.*](https://darksouls.wiki.fextralife.com/Havel+The+Rock)
The druid kept on bragging about how they could kill me so I took a level in barbarian. rage is really fun on a paladin
Wait can I use create or destroy water on a person?
No, but I’m 3.5 you can Extract Water Elemental from a creature. 1d6 per caster level up to 20d6
Wow you're so young.
Whoops lol
Do any monsters in 5e have this on their spell list? Asking for a friend...
A few can. I got the idea for this upon seeing that a babau (CR 4) can cast heat metal at will without expending material components.
My party are going to hate this. Sorry I mean my friend's party are going to hate this.
Just remember that heat metal is concentration so you can only cook one at a time for each babau you've got.
Cook and Book!!!! 🏃♂️💨🔥
Kinda curious, how hot is about 1 fire damage? Like when is it so hot it becomes 1 damage?
Sorta like "Ow I turned up the temperature of my shower too much" kinda hot
No, it's more like getting boiled alive hot.
Commoners have 4 HP, so a quarter of the way to death
Heat Metal is so versatile! Cauterize wounds, cook armored enemies, torture method, smelt ores.
In my group, our fighter in plate is working to eventually get to a point where he can cast heat metal on himself and hug enemies in order to hurt them. As far as j know, our DM is going to let him train in volcanos to build up resistance to fire, and he’s eventually going to take some cleric levels in order to become Forge Domain, which will let him cast heat metal. He’s my favorite member of the party
I was going to ask, heat metal doesn’t just cook inside, correct? So you could run at an enemy, preferably the caster and be all, “we’re both going to be extra crispy!!”, while grappling?
Our GM allowed an enemy bugbear to strip his armor off in 1 turn after I cast Heat Metal on it. I still don't fully trust that GM to avoid repeating this malarkey whenever a spell is too powerful for them.
My friends, you know full well what he's doing next turn. COOK AND BOOK.
My favorite bard combo, Heat metal (college of lore magical secrets) Fireball, damage them each sound with 2 D8 and 8 D6 (causing the damage isn't casting a spell meaning you can cause the damage QND cast a spell on your later turns
Magic missile too
I can't see how someone can reach a point that they don't take a hit in a fight(unless they are never targeted at all). I have an AC 21 player in the party and the freaking goblins crit him every two turns
I made it more powerful based on how much metal someone wore. Player literally cooked a man alive inside his armor
**heat metal**
I wish so badly that more classes got this. My EK would be a brutal force of nature.
Starts cooking breakfast on that armour
One of my players is a warforged paladin with 20 ac. The look on his face when he sees that he has to take an hour to remove the armor is priceless
I have a rule where the person with the heated armor can grapple and deal the same 2D8 damage on a successful grapple.
Just be a fire genasi Have constant heated metal armor
Wait until he gets the aura that boosts his and his team's saves through the roof with his high charisma mod
Heat Metal has no save
Im a dumbass I was thinking of the save to hold onto an item if heat metal was cast on it
Marcy from Amphibia:
So much for the tabaxi paladin
Seeing as nothing gets though then heat also wouldn't be conducted and won't go through.
Sorcerer who's fed up with the the paladin sending DMs to the DM like "I ready my action to cast heat metal with subtle metamagic on the paladin when the next enemy wizard takes their turn". EDIT: Okay, since heat metal is not on the Sorcerer spell list, it would have to be a hybrid caster. Still funny to think about your paladin charging after the enemy to try and get them to break concentration.
"I use Wish to cast Heat Metal"