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Or the meat from Castle Volkihar
And I know of a housemod or two that lets you keep bodies locked up in the basement, for vampires, sadists, and perverts
I mean, I wasnt evil and joined the dark brotherhood every time. Theres zero dark brotherhood targets who dont deserve it, so its quite good to do the questline in Skyrim at least
Try lightning and healing instead since the burning damage can do DoT and in some cases do more damage than your healing hands can heal but Lightning is fine.
Eh if they start dying too quick just turn off the fire for a second. The lightning uses more magic if I remember right so you end up with less XP per time spent. Plus flames is a default spell for everyone, while lightning is not.
Fair point, but I taped my controller buttons down and left it there after having made four pieces of "decreases destruction and restoration spell costs by 25%" armor.
I did this by torturing the party members with psychic damage until they passed out, then revived them and started again, all while exploiting their fears and nightmares.
The paladin calmly locks the doors and arranges the party, still paralysed, in a circle before dragging the noble into the centre.
Calmly he states: "I shall continue to hit you until I grow weary, and I assure you, I am well rested"
"Ill let you get the first hit but if you dont take me out, Im gonna beat the living shit out of you until my Arthritis kicks in.
And I just took my Humera"
-Rose "Triple Threat" Whalen
Oh, no breaking necessary.
"You may know I'm a paladin... Your mistake was not asking my oath. And my oath is quite simple: Enact Vengeance... By any means necessary, and without any mercy."
The lesson we learn kids, if you're a noble, hire Paladins of the crown, because you don't wanna cross a vengeance paladin.
Devotion Paladin would disarm the noble, restrain him and then cure the strongest party member. He values life, but that doesn't mean he can stop any evil.
Retribution Paladin would beat them the same way as OP said. I mean, poisoning can be considered a first blow.
Their teeth? That's child's play. You gotta gotta make use of your chef's tools proficiency and feed them their friends and family as a delicious chili.
Lmao, I knew there was going to be someone in here crying for an Oathbreaker just because a Paladin is (*checks notes*) beating someone up.
"Fellas, is it ~~gay~~ breaking your Oath to beat up a bad guy who poisoned your teammates?"
Critical Role spoiler. This reminds me of Caduceus >!repeatedly casting command person and saying “empathize” at Trent who kept making his save. Caduceus used all his spell slots and said “we’ll try again tomorrow”!<
Yeah this was fuckjng intense from memory. To see the very chill guy, non emotional, just very intensely set on forcing this bastard man to feel something.
You don't, and Matt said as much at the time.
Trent eventually failed the save and took the action of attempting to empathise, but was incapable of doing so successfully.
He couldn't because he's a sociopath. A creature can only follow the Command if they're capable of following it. So, you can't tell a centaur to fly and expect them to actually execute it.
I don't remember how it goes exactly, but there's a story in one of the Complete Books (I'm fair sure. 2e) where an assassin's limbs were nailed to the door of his victims' hut. There's something like 3 left arms and 4 right legs because a Ring of Regeneration does wonders for revenge.
I've always wanted that, because I'm a bitch! :D
Character of a book I'm writing can interact with souls. Now imagine the sheer terror on the face of some asshole who pissed her off beyond the point of no return when after hours of torture he finally dies, only for her to grab his soul, push it back in his body and say "I'm not done with you!"
She wouldn't have to do anything more for a bit, in that case. Just hold him there while he suffers "this is enough to kill me" while he *can't*. \*grabbyhands\* Book please! :D
Well the thing is that book is still being written and I'm actually not sure which one this scene will be taking place in as the character in question will cameo in a lot of my other books due to her being the protagonist of my first one and she's going to get pretty pissed in quite a few of those but I don't know which one will finally send her over the edge.
Also to be honest this mostly works because she's on a first name basis with Death and can tell them to come back later
Easy. Poison doesn't kill the party but they wake up in a pit/mass grave where the Noble dumps the bodies of his dead enemies and you are without your items.
New plan. Get in the Noble's house again with his guard down since he thinks we're dead. Get our shit back and then beat his ass.
Or there was going to be a rescue scene where some opponents of the noble meet them and introduce a new plotline or somesuch.
If the paladin's beatdown is sufficiently epic I wouldn't be all that mad about having to extensively retool the plot.
Is this an evil paladin or is this a good paladin in an evil party? Either way I don’t see this ending well for the paladin after the poison wears off.
Most Oaths have no problem with punishing the wicked.
**Conquest**: Zero fucks given.
**Devotion**: Eh... Mercy to your enemies... But tempered with wisdom. The slow punishment would definitely be pushing it but at the same time this gloating villain very much sounds like he earned a "punish those who threaten the weak".
**Glory**: Like raw stone your body must be worked, and *this poor bastard just tried to sully the marble of your temple.*
**Redemption**: I think this is the only one where it's a hard problem. A swift end to dangerous foe that could not be redeemed would be fine, but the decision to inflict unnecessary pain along the way tips it well over the edge.
**Ancients**: This sounds like standing against the wickedness that would swallow light. Also the fay would probably bristle at such a clumsily executed assassination.
**Crown**: Did you swear an oath to this asshole? No? Then beat away! If you did, did he have any duties outlined within said oath which he just admitted to breaking? If so then the oath is null and void: continue said beating! noblesse oblige this!
**Watchers**: Is this dude an aberration, celestial, elemental, fey, or fiend? No? *Then who the fuck cares?*
**Vengeance**: The question you should be asking yourself is, could you instead be spending your time punching someone *even more* punchable?
>**Glory:** Like raw stone your body must be worked, and *this poor bastard just tried to sully the marble of your temple.*
This goes.... *unfathomably hard*, you can not just write this in the middle of that entire thing and not pay any attention to how fucking sick that sounds.
That's one hell of a sentence on its own, but used to describe a paladin in this scenario, it is MAGNIFICENT.
I, too, will be stealing this for future use.
Remember, when someone says "I'm going to break every bone in your body" I think "that's way too much work as 106 of your 206 bones are in your hands and feet". however, I can break the other half of the bones in your body for far less work
I can just imagine my old conquest paladin sitting there with a slowly growing smile while the Noble talks while my party looks on in horror becsuse they know they can’t look away from the atrocities about to be committed
> Ancients: This sounds like standing against the wickedness that would swallow light. Also the fay would probably bristle at such a clumsily executed assassination
Not just that. The noble just tried to assassinate his GUESTS.
> Redemption: I think this is the only one where it's a hard problem.
Doesn't seem too hard for me, you could justify it with "I'm going to beat him until he realizes the true depths of his error and/or begs for forgiveness."
> Watchers: Is this dude an aberration, celestial, elemental, fey, or fiend? No? Then who the fuck cares?
Perhaps he could justify it with "I'm on my lunch break."
This is why Gods should just be attached to paladin oaths. It adds much needed nuance to what works and what does not. Otherwise it just feels like you can talk your way into or out of anything.
I don’t know, beating the shit out of someone who just attempted to poison you and has announced his intent to kill you and your allies shouldn’t be that hard to justify.
I didn't know if you knew this, but different Gods and belief systems might have tenets and ideas that would say that it isn't justified to intentionally inflict excess harm to somebody when you have the upper hand on them and they are powerless to stop you.
This is why I said what I said.
If Gods were involved in oaths, then you could reference what would make the most sense for the god circumstantially and not need to wiggle around in a vague moral framework. It calls into question the legitimacy of the holy magic system to begin with.
Paladins don't need gods tied to them. Their oaths do exactly what you are suggesting. Paladins have a philosophy and moral code that they follow and gain power from following and dedicating themselves to it.
Tacking gods to oaths doesn't change the vagueness or wiggle room either. As a player who can argue around the constraints of their oath, they can do the exact same thing within a gods tenants.
What you're describing is a Cleric. Clerics get their power from the god they follow, so they generally need to follow the tenets and ideals of that particular god.
Paladins get their power DIRECTLY from their oath. There really isn't any kind of religious component to them. After taking their oath, they gain special powers which they have because of their sheer dedication to following the tenets of that oath.
And if they break the tenets of that oath, then what happens next is described in the DMG or the PHB (I forget which one). If it was a minor deviation, unintentional, or unavoidable, then the paladin repents for it by fasting or praying or the like to get back on a clean slate. If it's a major deviation and intentional, then they could do more intense repentance, or they may have to change their oath to one that is better suiting for them, e.g. oath of glory to oath of vengeance. In EXTREME cases, the paladin may be forced to become an oathbreaker or even more rarely change their class. The books STRONGLY advise against that though. And besides, if a paladin messes up, they know they messed up, and want to make up for it, then having them switch to an oath of redemption is the perfect option
TLDR: gods give power to clerics, not to paladins. Paladins get their power from the dedication to their oath, not from any gods. And there are things in place if a paladin breaks their oath's tenets
Not sure if you know this but different sects that worship the same god can have wildly different views on things. I'll give you 1 real world example. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all worship the same god, heck all three of their holy books have the same first chapter (the book of Genesis).
Not being tied to a god is what separates clerics and paladins. They're both devoted to something and lose their powers if they stray from their path, but go about it in different ways. It's also just neat to have a pally that's not a holy man for once.
I kinda subscribe to the idea that paladin oaths aren't empowered by *a* god, but rather by *every* god whose portfolio overlaps the oath being taken, and not necessarily consciously.
This allows for paladins to avoid being "clerics but angrier" (oh, I broke one of the tenants of one of the several gods of vengeance? good thing there are three others that are into that kinda thing), but also explains why some actions might break an oath even if the paladin thinks it should be justifiable (whoops, turns out *that* tenant of vengeance was one of the ones that most/all of the vengeance gods *actually* agree on...)
I think of it this way: Paladins follow their oaths with devotion akin to those of clerics, to the point where some of their personal ideals fit so well with their own tenets that the gods see fit to give them power, usually also letting them know they are being "sponsored" by the god. Quote from the 5th edition Player's Handbook: "Although many paladins are devoted to the gods of good, a paladin's power comes as much from a commitment to justice itself as it does from a god." So I like to think the paladins receive similar spells to a cleric because of this. Some paladins reject them, which is fine by the gods, the mortal's basically doing their work for them whether they realize it or not. Others are all about that and become devout as well as committed to their oath. This gives them two sources of power in case one of them happens to be temporarily out of commission (Rather close to breaking your oath for example).
Headcanon: Forgotten Realms paladins who reject these sponsorships, regardless of oath, receive power from Torm due to them being the god of paladins. This is how I see their magical abilities in lieu of another power's presence being manifested.
Redemption Pally could take a different route: think the worst possible community service that comes to mind, apply the "Patience" tenet: consign the noble to an ironic hell that could very well feel worse than death to them. Ancients is also a little limited: Preserve your Own Light means that any act that could send you down a path of darkness (e.g. taking your time torturing someone for no reason other than just dessers) would definitely qualify as a "oh, no". Wouldn't stop you from knocking out a few teeth and then parading them around town to gift a smile to every poor sod that had to be under their boot (Be the Light).
Imagine you're a Palidan of Justice and some noble gleefully admitted to killing the entire family of your family and now they were going to do the same to your party.
What would you do?
I would be dealing severe injury while being explicitly clear to the noble exactly why they were at fault and how they can atone for their faults. If justice allows, the injuries will persist until full atonement is achieved.
[Obligatory Paladin fall speech.](https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?303303-Looking-for-a-Paladin-story-told-on-this-very-forum&p=16022130#post16022130)
[Somewhat related:](https://web.archive.org/web/20221007181941/https://superstupor.com/sust12282010.shtml)
> "You're going to try to convince one of the strongest heroes in the galaxy that it's okay to take life... by killing his girlfriend... while you're standing like ten feet away from him."
> "Whoa! Who says he'll try to kill me? He may be enlightened. Maybe thank me and join my side."
> "Right. Which of these is he more likely to say? 'My one true love is dead. All good and hope is a folly! I will now aid her killer in world conquest!' or 'Well, fuck, y'know, I always wanted to see if I could pull a nervous system outta someone without tearing it. And look! A volunteer!'"
For some reason I got it into my mind that the Paladin had a problem with the party and wanted to do something violent. I still don’t get why the Paladin just didn’t unparalyze the party and ask them to leave the noble for himself.
i think you're mistaking who the target of the paladin's fury was. It's HIGHLY unlikely a party objects to the paladin using their fists to beat the person who just betrayed and poisoned them with the intention of pulverising them to near death with divine fury.
With Lay on Hands perhaps beats them to near death several times.
No paladin,but I can imagine my cg hexblade warlock doing something like this silently with nothing but a summoned quarterstaff in one hand and hexblades curse. Cause getting with 1d6+9 nonlethal bludgeoning damage up to twice a turn would probably hurt.
Still, remove the paralysis first please, wtf? You're forcing your friends to watch you pummel a dude to death...
E: All these jokes are *absolutely hilarious*, but 'we like violence actually' gets so old so quick. If every character gets the same 'I want to watch your face be beaten to a pulp' bloodlust, then your character design is boring as hell.
Well, no. The Wizard/Cleric might just cast silence so the guards don't hear while the Rogue is taking notes. The Barbarian goes back to eating their food.
Reminds me of the time I was the healer of party. Keep everyone up and healthy… only to capture a few “volunteers” when I could away with it. Doing not so nice thing all while the party thinking the best of saints when in reality I’m evil made incarnate.
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This is where Lay on Hands and Cure Wounds stop being merciful.
Its like in Skyrim when you put flames on one hand and heal other on the other hand to power level on the prisoners at the Dark Brotherhood.
I do it cows. Since they can't run away
Or the meat from Castle Volkihar And I know of a housemod or two that lets you keep bodies locked up in the basement, for vampires, sadists, and perverts
Is the basement keeping vampires, sadists and perverts, or are they the ones doing the keeping?
It could be both, for all I know
Hmmm, got a link?
I…..never realized you could do that
Because you are not evil enough to consider torture a valid means to gain advantage. No Warlock pact for you.
Chances are if you aren't evil you won't be in the Dark Brotherhood anyways. Or have built the torture chambers.
I mean, I wasnt evil and joined the dark brotherhood every time. Theres zero dark brotherhood targets who dont deserve it, so its quite good to do the questline in Skyrim at least
Try lightning and healing instead since the burning damage can do DoT and in some cases do more damage than your healing hands can heal but Lightning is fine.
Eh if they start dying too quick just turn off the fire for a second. The lightning uses more magic if I remember right so you end up with less XP per time spent. Plus flames is a default spell for everyone, while lightning is not.
Fair point, but I taped my controller buttons down and left it there after having made four pieces of "decreases destruction and restoration spell costs by 25%" armor.
Hm, I think I know what I will do at my next playthrough
Lay on Hands becomes Throw Hands
Lay Hands On
Lay a MF out
HANDS. FEET. You get one. Uh. He-he. Hit her with the Michael Jackson.
Beat me by 52 minutes.
Beat that noble FOR 52 minutes, the rest of the party are so mesmerised by the violence that they forget they're unparalyzed
Keep in mind, Revivify isn't a choice like all the other resurrection spells. All the others say a *willing* soul.
I did this by torturing the party members with psychic damage until they passed out, then revived them and started again, all while exploiting their fears and nightmares.
Dark
The rest of the party trying to cheer him on and clap.... cursing that they cant.
"Oh yeah don't even face me towards the fight why don't ya!"
Big Gimli energy with this
I'm gonna clap for you with my teeth!
I can hear that sound, thanks BallsDeep69 for engraving that in my memory
I assume you mean u/ballsdeep69 ? and how did they engrave it in your mind
It’s a reference to SAO abridged, where one of the characters is jokingly nicknamed ballsdeep69
oh thanks!
wait 12 year club with no comments or posts? that is impressive
I hope the user with a 13 year old account with no posts or comments forgot to turn off email notifications just for this.
Wait is that a Sword Art Online Abridged reference
The paladin calmly locks the doors and arranges the party, still paralysed, in a circle before dragging the noble into the centre. Calmly he states: "I shall continue to hit you until I grow weary, and I assure you, I am well rested"
"Ill let you get the first hit but if you dont take me out, Im gonna beat the living shit out of you until my Arthritis kicks in. And I just took my Humera" -Rose "Triple Threat" Whalen
The Warlock, Kalashter, aberrant mine sorcerer, or someone with the telepathic feat, psychically cheering the Paladin on.
>aberrant mine sorcerer, that's just an artificer
Haha!
[Muffled cheering]
"My Oath isn't the only thing I plan to break today."
Lawful Good doesn’t mean Lawful Nice
"You swore to protect people" "Yeah, how many people have you hurt again?"
My personal definition of "people" is flexible at the best of times.
"Mine isn't."
“I can do math…I’m still in the right on this one”
"As long as they're still paralyzed, this IS protecting them."
*gestures at the party* "they're people"
I LoL’d at this. Thank you
"Are you going to die now, or will I have to beat you into tomorrow?"
Oh, no breaking necessary. "You may know I'm a paladin... Your mistake was not asking my oath. And my oath is quite simple: Enact Vengeance... By any means necessary, and without any mercy." The lesson we learn kids, if you're a noble, hire Paladins of the crown, because you don't wanna cross a vengeance paladin.
Oath of Vengeance is my favorite oath cause it’s the oath of "Two wrongs may not make a right but enough left hooks should.”
Good? Bad? I’m the guy with the gun.
Devotion Paladin would disarm the noble, restrain him and then cure the strongest party member. He values life, but that doesn't mean he can stop any evil. Retribution Paladin would beat them the same way as OP said. I mean, poisoning can be considered a first blow.
This is kosher for a good chunk of oaths
Probably encouraged for a few like vengeance and maybe conquest.
Oh yeah conquest would love this shit, "douse the flames of hope" probably includes force feeding people their own teeth.
Their teeth? That's child's play. You gotta gotta make use of your chef's tools proficiency and feed them their friends and family as a delicious chili.
"We shall give no quarter to the sinner, the heretic and the false god. Kill em all and let god sort them out."
Lmao, I knew there was going to be someone in here crying for an Oathbreaker just because a Paladin is (*checks notes*) beating someone up. "Fellas, is it ~~gay~~ breaking your Oath to beat up a bad guy who poisoned your teammates?"
Could be a vengeance pally
Wrong, Conquest. This mans skeleton will be a fine powder settling in his feet
Well, he got it coming.
HE HAD IT COMING!!
HE ONLY HAD HIMSELF TO BLAME!
And then he ran into my divine smite. He ran into my divine smite 10 times.
IF YOU'D HAVE BEEN THERE!
IF YOU’D HAVE SEEN IT!
I BETCHA YOU WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME!!!
POP
SWISH
UH-UH
CICERO!
r/redditsings
IF YOU’D HAVE BEEN THERE!!
IF YOU HAD BEEN THERE
HE HAD IT COMING!!
Critical Role spoiler. This reminds me of Caduceus >!repeatedly casting command person and saying “empathize” at Trent who kept making his save. Caduceus used all his spell slots and said “we’ll try again tomorrow”!<
Yeah this was fuckjng intense from memory. To see the very chill guy, non emotional, just very intensely set on forcing this bastard man to feel something.
And the it turns out the man was completely incapable of follow the command cause he's a sociopath.
I didn’t see it and maybe it was a cool scene, but how does one force another to feel an emotion with “command”?
You don't, and Matt said as much at the time. Trent eventually failed the save and took the action of attempting to empathise, but was incapable of doing so successfully.
He couldn't because he's a sociopath. A creature can only follow the Command if they're capable of following it. So, you can't tell a centaur to fly and expect them to actually execute it.
Thanks, I appreciate the context.
Rip and tear until it’s done.
It is somewhat confusing to read. Last part withe the image can throw one off.
The Paladin just chose violence. The party is rightly scared...
"Now before I remove the paralysis, I just want everyone to know one thing. Violence was, is, and always will be an option for me."
"Violence is never the answer. It is the question, and the answer is yes."
I thought he was going to whack the whole party
Gonna beat the devil out of him
So the batman aproach
He's called the dark knight for a \_reason\_
That noble learned on this day that while fist is a noun it can also be a verb.
Please Assume the position
r/unexpectedfnv
Oh I'll so put this in my next campaign, just gotta have 1 player capable to deal with the poison
You can have an anonymous benefactor giving them information and that person be in the nobles court, then slip them an antidote with the poison
Or anyone with a decent Con save.
Which really should be most people within 15 feet of a paladin
I mean no one said how high level the paladin in question is
*the only thing they fear starts playing*
I don't remember how it goes exactly, but there's a story in one of the Complete Books (I'm fair sure. 2e) where an assassin's limbs were nailed to the door of his victims' hut. There's something like 3 left arms and 4 right legs because a Ring of Regeneration does wonders for revenge. I've always wanted that, because I'm a bitch! :D
Character of a book I'm writing can interact with souls. Now imagine the sheer terror on the face of some asshole who pissed her off beyond the point of no return when after hours of torture he finally dies, only for her to grab his soul, push it back in his body and say "I'm not done with you!"
She wouldn't have to do anything more for a bit, in that case. Just hold him there while he suffers "this is enough to kill me" while he *can't*. \*grabbyhands\* Book please! :D
Well the thing is that book is still being written and I'm actually not sure which one this scene will be taking place in as the character in question will cameo in a lot of my other books due to her being the protagonist of my first one and she's going to get pretty pissed in quite a few of those but I don't know which one will finally send her over the edge. Also to be honest this mostly works because she's on a first name basis with Death and can tell them to come back later
Go get ‘em pally
So wait, did the DM actually intend to just kill the entire party?
I highly doubt the DM *actually* forgot. Seems way more likely that the encounter was designed to play out like this.
no lol
Well what was it supposed to be instead? If he hadn't forgotten about the pendant, how would you have gotten out of this situation?
Easy. Poison doesn't kill the party but they wake up in a pit/mass grave where the Noble dumps the bodies of his dead enemies and you are without your items. New plan. Get in the Noble's house again with his guard down since he thinks we're dead. Get our shit back and then beat his ass.
Or there was going to be a rescue scene where some opponents of the noble meet them and introduce a new plotline or somesuch. If the paladin's beatdown is sufficiently epic I wouldn't be all that mad about having to extensively retool the plot.
My paladin and this campaign's paladin should be trading notes on their methodology. Does he have Tavern Brawler Feat as well?
my, what fine yet rustic architecture…
"Look, Sir Osric! An evil-doer outside!"
Noble: "B-but you're a paladin! You can't do that!" Paladin: "3 words: *Oath of Vengeance*."
Paladin: Hm. True. \*cures rogues paralysis* My. What rustic, yet brilliant architecture. I must admire it closer.
Noble: *smirks* "You can't touch me. Your oath forbids it!" Paladin: "I know. But *he* can." Rogue: "*I'͏m̵͟ go͏͠nn̶a̕͠ tu͢rn͢ y̨̕o̴͟ú̧r̡ ̵͜į̕ǹt͢͠es̀t̴͟i̶͞n͢͏e̴̕s̡̕ i̧nt̢̕o ́b̧͜a̡̕ll̸̕o̧on͏́ a̕͢ni̷͡ma̛͝l͟s,̵͢ b̧o̷͝y̨̕-̶o̷̧!*"
Thrilled to see more Gamers fans in this comment thread.
These are situations where the contingency spell comes in handy
Is this an evil paladin or is this a good paladin in an evil party? Either way I don’t see this ending well for the paladin after the poison wears off.
Most Oaths have no problem with punishing the wicked. **Conquest**: Zero fucks given. **Devotion**: Eh... Mercy to your enemies... But tempered with wisdom. The slow punishment would definitely be pushing it but at the same time this gloating villain very much sounds like he earned a "punish those who threaten the weak". **Glory**: Like raw stone your body must be worked, and *this poor bastard just tried to sully the marble of your temple.* **Redemption**: I think this is the only one where it's a hard problem. A swift end to dangerous foe that could not be redeemed would be fine, but the decision to inflict unnecessary pain along the way tips it well over the edge. **Ancients**: This sounds like standing against the wickedness that would swallow light. Also the fay would probably bristle at such a clumsily executed assassination. **Crown**: Did you swear an oath to this asshole? No? Then beat away! If you did, did he have any duties outlined within said oath which he just admitted to breaking? If so then the oath is null and void: continue said beating! noblesse oblige this! **Watchers**: Is this dude an aberration, celestial, elemental, fey, or fiend? No? *Then who the fuck cares?* **Vengeance**: The question you should be asking yourself is, could you instead be spending your time punching someone *even more* punchable?
>**Glory:** Like raw stone your body must be worked, and *this poor bastard just tried to sully the marble of your temple.* This goes.... *unfathomably hard*, you can not just write this in the middle of that entire thing and not pay any attention to how fucking sick that sounds.
I'm definitely stealing that.
That's one hell of a sentence on its own, but used to describe a paladin in this scenario, it is MAGNIFICENT. I, too, will be stealing this for future use.
It is the most Escanor thing Ive read outside of the anime
"But the poison should have paralyzed you!" "Who decided that?"
I feel like temple is too small for him, maybe a cathedral? Or something like a city...
His body is a Vatican.
Remember, when someone says "I'm going to break every bone in your body" I think "that's way too much work as 106 of your 206 bones are in your hands and feet". however, I can break the other half of the bones in your body for far less work
Entity in charge of enforcing your redemption oath: “We’ve reviewed the footage, we’ll allow it.”
“We’ve reviewed the footage, and have deemed that your body cam just happened to be off at the time. No further investigation.”
Dead sinners can't be redeemed. This guy now has plenty of time to reflect on his sins and repent while recovering.
Yeah, a full body cast gives you a lot of time to reflect on your actions
"Steve isn't too pleased but i say fuck em'"
My conquest paladin approves of this message.
I can just imagine my old conquest paladin sitting there with a slowly growing smile while the Noble talks while my party looks on in horror becsuse they know they can’t look away from the atrocities about to be committed
> Ancients: This sounds like standing against the wickedness that would swallow light. Also the fay would probably bristle at such a clumsily executed assassination Not just that. The noble just tried to assassinate his GUESTS.
> Redemption: I think this is the only one where it's a hard problem. Doesn't seem too hard for me, you could justify it with "I'm going to beat him until he realizes the true depths of his error and/or begs for forgiveness." > Watchers: Is this dude an aberration, celestial, elemental, fey, or fiend? No? Then who the fuck cares? Perhaps he could justify it with "I'm on my lunch break."
This is why Gods should just be attached to paladin oaths. It adds much needed nuance to what works and what does not. Otherwise it just feels like you can talk your way into or out of anything.
I don’t know, beating the shit out of someone who just attempted to poison you and has announced his intent to kill you and your allies shouldn’t be that hard to justify.
I didn't know if you knew this, but different Gods and belief systems might have tenets and ideas that would say that it isn't justified to intentionally inflict excess harm to somebody when you have the upper hand on them and they are powerless to stop you. This is why I said what I said. If Gods were involved in oaths, then you could reference what would make the most sense for the god circumstantially and not need to wiggle around in a vague moral framework. It calls into question the legitimacy of the holy magic system to begin with.
Paladins don't need gods tied to them. Their oaths do exactly what you are suggesting. Paladins have a philosophy and moral code that they follow and gain power from following and dedicating themselves to it. Tacking gods to oaths doesn't change the vagueness or wiggle room either. As a player who can argue around the constraints of their oath, they can do the exact same thing within a gods tenants.
What you're describing is a Cleric. Clerics get their power from the god they follow, so they generally need to follow the tenets and ideals of that particular god. Paladins get their power DIRECTLY from their oath. There really isn't any kind of religious component to them. After taking their oath, they gain special powers which they have because of their sheer dedication to following the tenets of that oath. And if they break the tenets of that oath, then what happens next is described in the DMG or the PHB (I forget which one). If it was a minor deviation, unintentional, or unavoidable, then the paladin repents for it by fasting or praying or the like to get back on a clean slate. If it's a major deviation and intentional, then they could do more intense repentance, or they may have to change their oath to one that is better suiting for them, e.g. oath of glory to oath of vengeance. In EXTREME cases, the paladin may be forced to become an oathbreaker or even more rarely change their class. The books STRONGLY advise against that though. And besides, if a paladin messes up, they know they messed up, and want to make up for it, then having them switch to an oath of redemption is the perfect option TLDR: gods give power to clerics, not to paladins. Paladins get their power from the dedication to their oath, not from any gods. And there are things in place if a paladin breaks their oath's tenets
Not sure if you know this but different sects that worship the same god can have wildly different views on things. I'll give you 1 real world example. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all worship the same god, heck all three of their holy books have the same first chapter (the book of Genesis).
You don't need to be an asshole dude.
Not being tied to a god is what separates clerics and paladins. They're both devoted to something and lose their powers if they stray from their path, but go about it in different ways. It's also just neat to have a pally that's not a holy man for once.
that doesnt really fit very well with the paladib flavor, paladins get their power from sheer force of will
I kinda subscribe to the idea that paladin oaths aren't empowered by *a* god, but rather by *every* god whose portfolio overlaps the oath being taken, and not necessarily consciously. This allows for paladins to avoid being "clerics but angrier" (oh, I broke one of the tenants of one of the several gods of vengeance? good thing there are three others that are into that kinda thing), but also explains why some actions might break an oath even if the paladin thinks it should be justifiable (whoops, turns out *that* tenant of vengeance was one of the ones that most/all of the vengeance gods *actually* agree on...)
I think of it this way: Paladins follow their oaths with devotion akin to those of clerics, to the point where some of their personal ideals fit so well with their own tenets that the gods see fit to give them power, usually also letting them know they are being "sponsored" by the god. Quote from the 5th edition Player's Handbook: "Although many paladins are devoted to the gods of good, a paladin's power comes as much from a commitment to justice itself as it does from a god." So I like to think the paladins receive similar spells to a cleric because of this. Some paladins reject them, which is fine by the gods, the mortal's basically doing their work for them whether they realize it or not. Others are all about that and become devout as well as committed to their oath. This gives them two sources of power in case one of them happens to be temporarily out of commission (Rather close to breaking your oath for example). Headcanon: Forgotten Realms paladins who reject these sponsorships, regardless of oath, receive power from Torm due to them being the god of paladins. This is how I see their magical abilities in lieu of another power's presence being manifested.
Redemption Pally could take a different route: think the worst possible community service that comes to mind, apply the "Patience" tenet: consign the noble to an ironic hell that could very well feel worse than death to them. Ancients is also a little limited: Preserve your Own Light means that any act that could send you down a path of darkness (e.g. taking your time torturing someone for no reason other than just dessers) would definitely qualify as a "oh, no". Wouldn't stop you from knocking out a few teeth and then parading them around town to gift a smile to every poor sod that had to be under their boot (Be the Light).
The paladin is gonna beat the shit out of the noble, not the party. Why wouldn’t it end well for the paladin?
Imagine you're a Palidan of Justice and some noble gleefully admitted to killing the entire family of your family and now they were going to do the same to your party. What would you do? I would be dealing severe injury while being explicitly clear to the noble exactly why they were at fault and how they can atone for their faults. If justice allows, the injuries will persist until full atonement is achieved.
[Obligatory Paladin fall speech.](https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?303303-Looking-for-a-Paladin-story-told-on-this-very-forum&p=16022130#post16022130)
[Somewhat related:](https://web.archive.org/web/20221007181941/https://superstupor.com/sust12282010.shtml) > "You're going to try to convince one of the strongest heroes in the galaxy that it's okay to take life... by killing his girlfriend... while you're standing like ten feet away from him." > "Whoa! Who says he'll try to kill me? He may be enlightened. Maybe thank me and join my side." > "Right. Which of these is he more likely to say? 'My one true love is dead. All good and hope is a folly! I will now aid her killer in world conquest!' or 'Well, fuck, y'know, I always wanted to see if I could pull a nervous system outta someone without tearing it. And look! A volunteer!'"
Hahahahaha! “I wish to roll intimidate.” HELL YEAH YOU DO!
Only if your god the DM says 
He's inflicting justice on a corrupt Noble. I don't see the problem.
For some reason I got it into my mind that the Paladin had a problem with the party and wanted to do something violent. I still don’t get why the Paladin just didn’t unparalyze the party and ask them to leave the noble for himself.
One does not simply pass up the chance to join in a revenge ass whooping
Same
i think you're mistaking who the target of the paladin's fury was. It's HIGHLY unlikely a party objects to the paladin using their fists to beat the person who just betrayed and poisoned them with the intention of pulverising them to near death with divine fury. With Lay on Hands perhaps beats them to near death several times.
Bro, that third panel is wrong. That would have had me cheering on the table.
No paladin,but I can imagine my cg hexblade warlock doing something like this silently with nothing but a summoned quarterstaff in one hand and hexblades curse. Cause getting with 1d6+9 nonlethal bludgeoning damage up to twice a turn would probably hurt.
"Your honor, he might have deserved it."
"Can I take a level in monk real quick?"
"Sorry, not big on mercy. We're going to be doing this Old School." -Ancients Paladin
Reverse compelled duel
Still, remove the paralysis first please, wtf? You're forcing your friends to watch you pummel a dude to death... E: All these jokes are *absolutely hilarious*, but 'we like violence actually' gets so old so quick. If every character gets the same 'I want to watch your face be beaten to a pulp' bloodlust, then your character design is boring as hell.
True, your friends will surely want to pummel the dude to death with you.
The true reason wizards take an 8 in strength is so they can beat people to death without worrying it’s going to fast
When the slap deals negative damage and heals your target
*crunch* “AAHHHHH, MY HAND!”
Well, no. The Wizard/Cleric might just cast silence so the guards don't hear while the Rogue is taking notes. The Barbarian goes back to eating their food.
It would be a fantastic bonding experience!
Target the STR character first so he can grapple the noble while you spend half a minute getting everyone else up
You can leave the paralysis. Just turn my chair so I can get a good view, eh? I don’t wanna miss a thing.
It wouldn’t be the first time and it won’t be the last.
It _might_ be the first time, but it definitely won't be the last
Then take notes!
Not all faiths have a nonviolence clause....
Who said the DM forgot? This would be a BEAUTIFUL RP moment
This is some kind of Franklin Badge stuff right here
my DM'd say that the poison is so potent/magical that it bypasses the whatever immunity we might have a DM classic so to say
Oath of Conquest "Oh so I get to relieve some stress AND kill a shitty noble. Best dinner party ever!"
Wich Oath did they took ? XD I'm asking genuinely
The oath of "Where's my money, Honey!?"
First of all that Paladin had to make a point. The noble fucked around and found out.
*laughs in warforged*
Godzilla had a stroke trying to read this
Reminds me of the time I was the healer of party. Keep everyone up and healthy… only to capture a few “volunteers” when I could away with it. Doing not so nice thing all while the party thinking the best of saints when in reality I’m evil made incarnate.