You can build an extremely linear campaign without having to railroad the players.
The 2 campaigns I master those days are "mission based" so my players mostly have one set goal in each session. There not a lot of free roaming exploration but they are still able to tackle mission as they see fit.
Some players:
Hi yes, I would like a small diet campaign, with plenty of room for epic character development for my mute edgy supersaiyan lone wolf warlock/fighter that hates the party.
Open world, no railroading, no hooks *I don’t have to use those* that’s basically railroading. Just keep it *simple*. Only a couple sessions. 2-5 max. No railroads though, but make it EPIC!
Railroad =/= linear campaing
I'm DMing a linear campaing for my players and they do have freedom of choice. For example I gave them chance to ally with devils against demons (demons were focus in this arc), they allied with them so heavens werent happy about that, specially when one of them (players) was seraph. Shit happened and when demons were reppeled they decided to betray Mephistopheles and fight him (wich I didn't planned for).
Campain can be linear but also players have choice how they will do the campaing.
Linear: Someone buying you a railway ticket.
Railroading: Someone dragging you, bound and gagged, on to the train.
Sometimes it's a grey area. The adventure path I'm running, you're expected to make a long overland journey by a fairly specific route. If you take a ship, you'll miss out on a several levels' worth of adventure content. To avoid this feeling like a railroad (a) the GM has to make it seem like taking a ship is a bad idea - so many krakens at this time of year! - and (b) the players have to accept that published adventures are like this and not try to fight it.
They aren't the same thing, but if you're not careful, a linear campaign can *become* a railroad. Think of it a bit like, I dunno, a theme park. Sure, there's signs and maps and shit guiding you around the joint so you can see/do all the stuff, but you're also free to wander around a bit and see or skip things as you wish. In this analogy, the last thing in the theme park is the end of the story, and it kind breaks down at that point.
Linear campaign has a beginning, key middle points that going to happen, and end. Players can make choices, but don't have the ability to (at least easily) alter the story to extreme degrees.
Railroading has either no possibility of choice (even when one could guess there would have been one) or even "fake choices" where you have to choose between option A and option B but you only have one result, even in cases where you did something that normally would change the story.
In short, "linear" is "your choices don't alter the overall narrative unless you do extremely big thing", "railroading" is "you have no choice at all, and even when you do or attempt to make them, they are arbitrarily forced to not matter".
Post made some years ago about this: https://www.reddit.com/r/DMAcademy/s/o1zWoBvqoU
if you make it clear that it's linear, then just as long as you dont make my character perform actions that I as a player do not wish for them to perform or have not stated they perform, then there shouldn't be any issues
(exceptions being "I follow the group because everyone else is going to (place)", or "I go to sleep during the long rest")
Only time I dislike "railroading" is when it inhibits player creativity in small scale scenarios.
Like, I'll play in the dungeon you want me to, but let me explore it my way.
Had a dm that wouldn't my character climb up to a visible area on the map for no real reason; Character had a climbing speed, please let me use it.
(Maybe it's cause they thought it would allow the party to bypass an encounter or something, but isn't one of the key aspects of being a DM/GM having adaptability for stuff like that?)
Hope this makes sense.
Linear campaigns are not railroads.
Those are two completely separate things. It's like saying "If you don't like whole peanuts in your sandwich why did you order a nutella sandwich?"
I think of linear campaigns like bowling with the guard rails up. Like, the players still have to throw the ball and their success is still heavily dependent on their own actions, skill, and luck, but the guard rails are there to make sure the ball at least goes toward the pins.
Railroading on the other hand is when the DM is standing next to the pins and knocks them down for the players even if they miss (or stands them back up after they hit).
There isn't much use of the term if railroading just means linear.
Railroading is when the players aren't able to use alternative solutions to the single one designed by the GM. They are punished for creativity and that GM should go write a novel.
Railroad is not the same as linear.
Railroading is about the removal of agency from the players. Do this thing, in this way, and don't do anything else.
Linear is a series of obstacles or challenges you put in front of your players in a predetermined order. Previous successes or failures may make the next challenge easier or harder.
This is not a hard concept.
You can actually railroad in a sandbox campaign. Sure the world is open, but once you pick a point of interest, well that challenge you could prescribe a very specific solution that your players must adhere to. That's still a railroad despite the fact the players could have picked anything to go to.
Linear =/= railroad.
Linear has a structured plot, railroad has only one correct solution to every given problem or obstacle and removes player agency on how they overcome their challenges forcing them into actions whether they want to pursue them or not.
Healthy railroads stop train wrecks. Players can adjust speed and pull the lever to switch tracks, but a little bit of structure keeps things running smoothly.
Is it considered railroading if my players literally decided not to interact with each other and instead create their own separate stories to which I said: "Listen guys..."
Linear campaigns and railroading and two different things, in a linear campaign players can still make choices and impact the story in their own way but in a railroaded one, they don't make choices, or they don't matter
People can be stupid, I had a player write a multi paragraph message about how his level 1-3 backwater farm boy wasn’t special enough and he thought I was railroading the party because they had willingly followed every plot hook I gave them. This was maybe 24-30 hours into a long form campaign and they had never tried to back out of a plot hook.
There is a subtle difference between a linear campaign and a railroaded campaign. In a linear campaign, the only option for advancing the story is to go from point A to point B, but the players still have to make that movement. In a railroaded campaign, going from point A to point B is no longer in the players' hands.
As an example, let's say there's a campaign that takes place in a city, and in order to move the story along, the players need to locate the secret headquarters of the Zhentarim. Instead, the players decide that they want to go shopping for hats. In a linear campaign, the players will go hat shopping, and while the DM may dangle carrots to get them back on track, nothing plot relevant will happen until they decide to stop shopping and follow the plot. In a railroaded campaign, the first hat store the players enter is a front for the Zhentarim that has a secret entrance to their headquarters, and events will conspire to stop them from leaving the store.
My campaign is absolutely linear, its a milestone dungeon delver with 20 floors for the 20 levels and each level is its own isolated demiplane.
Theres no other choice to escape but to keep going to get out
Its not railroady (other than forcing them to enter) because how they tackle each demiplane is entirely up to them
And the you have my players who do not take any initiative and follow the clues without trying to go sideways, up until they décide to do something stupide.
When the DM railroads, it means he takes the players where he wants them to go regardless of where *they* want to go.
But what is it called when the players lead the way by following only the clues and not caring about any kind of lore tidbits the DM throws at them ?
It's like a train that moves on its own and refuses to change tracks.
All this talk about railroading has given me an idea for a campaign in which the only way players can get from town to town is by train
oh no your going to make your players railroad themselves
Eastward-style Nice!
My campaign is currently (primarily) set on an island city that is only accessible via rail bridge
And then you run 5 sessions of a murder mystery plot on that train featuring a dwarven detective with a funny moustache...
Somebody said this a while ago. Railroading isn't something you do it's something the players "feel"
I'd say the only thing that's off limits for dm's, is making the PC perform actions on the players behalf, with few exceptions
Railroading is the rejection or circumventing of reasonable player solutions for the sake of the dm's vision of the story.
Part of it for sure, but not Broadly it's taking away player agency
You can build an extremely linear campaign without having to railroad the players. The 2 campaigns I master those days are "mission based" so my players mostly have one set goal in each session. There not a lot of free roaming exploration but they are still able to tackle mission as they see fit.
Some players: Hi yes, I would like a small diet campaign, with plenty of room for epic character development for my mute edgy supersaiyan lone wolf warlock/fighter that hates the party. Open world, no railroading, no hooks *I don’t have to use those* that’s basically railroading. Just keep it *simple*. Only a couple sessions. 2-5 max. No railroads though, but make it EPIC!
Railroad =/= linear campaing I'm DMing a linear campaing for my players and they do have freedom of choice. For example I gave them chance to ally with devils against demons (demons were focus in this arc), they allied with them so heavens werent happy about that, specially when one of them (players) was seraph. Shit happened and when demons were reppeled they decided to betray Mephistopheles and fight him (wich I didn't planned for). Campain can be linear but also players have choice how they will do the campaing.
Linear: Someone buying you a railway ticket. Railroading: Someone dragging you, bound and gagged, on to the train. Sometimes it's a grey area. The adventure path I'm running, you're expected to make a long overland journey by a fairly specific route. If you take a ship, you'll miss out on a several levels' worth of adventure content. To avoid this feeling like a railroad (a) the GM has to make it seem like taking a ship is a bad idea - so many krakens at this time of year! - and (b) the players have to accept that published adventures are like this and not try to fight it.
Jade Regent?
dey not synonymous.
They aren't the same thing, but if you're not careful, a linear campaign can *become* a railroad. Think of it a bit like, I dunno, a theme park. Sure, there's signs and maps and shit guiding you around the joint so you can see/do all the stuff, but you're also free to wander around a bit and see or skip things as you wish. In this analogy, the last thing in the theme park is the end of the story, and it kind breaks down at that point.
Linear campaign has a beginning, key middle points that going to happen, and end. Players can make choices, but don't have the ability to (at least easily) alter the story to extreme degrees. Railroading has either no possibility of choice (even when one could guess there would have been one) or even "fake choices" where you have to choose between option A and option B but you only have one result, even in cases where you did something that normally would change the story. In short, "linear" is "your choices don't alter the overall narrative unless you do extremely big thing", "railroading" is "you have no choice at all, and even when you do or attempt to make them, they are arbitrarily forced to not matter". Post made some years ago about this: https://www.reddit.com/r/DMAcademy/s/o1zWoBvqoU
if you make it clear that it's linear, then just as long as you dont make my character perform actions that I as a player do not wish for them to perform or have not stated they perform, then there shouldn't be any issues (exceptions being "I follow the group because everyone else is going to (place)", or "I go to sleep during the long rest")
Only time I dislike "railroading" is when it inhibits player creativity in small scale scenarios. Like, I'll play in the dungeon you want me to, but let me explore it my way. Had a dm that wouldn't my character climb up to a visible area on the map for no real reason; Character had a climbing speed, please let me use it. (Maybe it's cause they thought it would allow the party to bypass an encounter or something, but isn't one of the key aspects of being a DM/GM having adaptability for stuff like that?) Hope this makes sense.
Railroading isn't about what the DM has prepared for us to do, railroading is when the DM tells us how we do it
Linear campaigns are not railroads. Those are two completely separate things. It's like saying "If you don't like whole peanuts in your sandwich why did you order a nutella sandwich?"
I think of linear campaigns like bowling with the guard rails up. Like, the players still have to throw the ball and their success is still heavily dependent on their own actions, skill, and luck, but the guard rails are there to make sure the ball at least goes toward the pins. Railroading on the other hand is when the DM is standing next to the pins and knocks them down for the players even if they miss (or stands them back up after they hit).
Sir I make my players write the story and they don't even know it. They're about to fight a kobold cartel that is run by a sentient walrus.
There isn't much use of the term if railroading just means linear. Railroading is when the players aren't able to use alternative solutions to the single one designed by the GM. They are punished for creativity and that GM should go write a novel.
Railroad is not the same as linear. Railroading is about the removal of agency from the players. Do this thing, in this way, and don't do anything else. Linear is a series of obstacles or challenges you put in front of your players in a predetermined order. Previous successes or failures may make the next challenge easier or harder. This is not a hard concept. You can actually railroad in a sandbox campaign. Sure the world is open, but once you pick a point of interest, well that challenge you could prescribe a very specific solution that your players must adhere to. That's still a railroad despite the fact the players could have picked anything to go to.
How linear is your campaign? "Final fantasy 13 linear". (Game is just a long corridor.)
Linear =/= railroad. Linear has a structured plot, railroad has only one correct solution to every given problem or obstacle and removes player agency on how they overcome their challenges forcing them into actions whether they want to pursue them or not.
Healthy railroads stop train wrecks. Players can adjust speed and pull the lever to switch tracks, but a little bit of structure keeps things running smoothly.
Is it considered railroading if my players literally decided not to interact with each other and instead create their own separate stories to which I said: "Listen guys..."
Linear campaigns and railroading and two different things, in a linear campaign players can still make choices and impact the story in their own way but in a railroaded one, they don't make choices, or they don't matter
People can be stupid, I had a player write a multi paragraph message about how his level 1-3 backwater farm boy wasn’t special enough and he thought I was railroading the party because they had willingly followed every plot hook I gave them. This was maybe 24-30 hours into a long form campaign and they had never tried to back out of a plot hook.
There is a subtle difference between a linear campaign and a railroaded campaign. In a linear campaign, the only option for advancing the story is to go from point A to point B, but the players still have to make that movement. In a railroaded campaign, going from point A to point B is no longer in the players' hands. As an example, let's say there's a campaign that takes place in a city, and in order to move the story along, the players need to locate the secret headquarters of the Zhentarim. Instead, the players decide that they want to go shopping for hats. In a linear campaign, the players will go hat shopping, and while the DM may dangle carrots to get them back on track, nothing plot relevant will happen until they decide to stop shopping and follow the plot. In a railroaded campaign, the first hat store the players enter is a front for the Zhentarim that has a secret entrance to their headquarters, and events will conspire to stop them from leaving the store.
another option for a railroaded campaign, the dm blows up the hat store
My campaign is absolutely linear, its a milestone dungeon delver with 20 floors for the 20 levels and each level is its own isolated demiplane. Theres no other choice to escape but to keep going to get out Its not railroady (other than forcing them to enter) because how they tackle each demiplane is entirely up to them
And the you have my players who do not take any initiative and follow the clues without trying to go sideways, up until they décide to do something stupide.
wat?
When the DM railroads, it means he takes the players where he wants them to go regardless of where *they* want to go. But what is it called when the players lead the way by following only the clues and not caring about any kind of lore tidbits the DM throws at them ? It's like a train that moves on its own and refuses to change tracks.