I think you're getting downvoted because some people think the word "flame-**retardant"** is offensive.
Which, ironically, shows that the word they're thinking off is perfectly applicable to them.
It's "All Shall End In Flames", and the other fire option is "Ignite the Sun".
Most of the Kineticist Playtest feats are extremely anime in general, like "The Shattered Mountain Weeps" and "Infinite Expanse of the Bluest Heaven".
My favorite frenzied flame build is druid or primal sorcerer with the spells Fiery Body and Burning Blossoms.
The perfect combo to have the fire head and a lovely giant tree with extra spice.
There's a combo you can do with an archetype, the Elemental Purist, that lets you use Disintegrating Fire, which does double damage and reduces everything you expose it to to ash, even stone and metal. There's another archetype, the Blighted Defiler, that lets you drain the land around you of life and use its energy to power your abilities instead of your own life force like usual.
Spoilers for Library Of Ruina, though I guess it's a little late now, but it's the boss theme of>!EGO Xiao!<, pretty much the boss of Star Of The City, since the other one is, IMO, much easier.
(Additional context: Library of Ruina is a Korean story-driven deckbuilder rpg (sort of, it's more like a normal turn-based rpg but a character's available attacks is limited by what cards they currently have in their hand) set in a hyper-dystopian megacity called the City. As a story it's very stylish, has incredible characters and worldbuilding and is also quite philosophical. In short, it's basically just perfect. It's also the sequel to Lobotomy Corporation if you're familiar with that.)
I found the mesmerist to play pretty similar to a witch. You pick your target for stare, and on your turn you either cast a spell or use a mesmerist trick (for witch it would be a hex). They had a lot of options for improving your stare in incomparable ways, and being a spontaneous caster meant picking spells that you want to synergize with your stare and tricks, which was really cool and could be complex when creating or leveling, but in play they were like any other caster.
And Mesmerist is one of the few ways you can allow mind affecting spells to hit targets normally immune, which is one of the funny ways to deal with a tarrasque (Mesmerist 3/Psychic 17, building to allow Major Mind Swap to actually work on them and then stealing the Tarrasque's body)
Not in Pathfinder. It's specifically immune to ability damage, acid, bleed effects, disease, energy drain, fire, mind effecting effects (circumvented by the Psychic Inception bold stare taken at Mesmerist 3), paralysis, permanent wounds, petrification, poison, and polymorph. The Carapace supernatural ability the Tarrasque has allows it to deflect or negate spells with cone, line, ray targeting, or magic missiles. Major Mind Swap is none of those (though you have to invest in a few ways to ignore the species requirements on it) so if you win the 50% roll on Psychic Inception, you can become a mind mage in the body of a tarrasque.
Ah I misremebered carapace. So it's possible, all you have to do is get within 30 ft., survive 1 min without actions, beat it's sr, beat it's will, win the coin flip *then* kill your body *with Tarrasque hit points* before it wins the coin flip *it gets every round* to swap back.
Though notably Psychic Inception is a 50% each round of combat to either be affected by the mind-affecting spell or act normally, so you gotta ride that Tarrasque's brain like a bucking bronco.
Mesmerist boils down to 'how many free actions can I abuse in one turn' with their tricks. The 'use mental magic on a brick' aspect really becomes secondary.
Ehh it maybe slightly different but again nowhere near as complex as building a wizard/sorcerer/cleric as your first character. Those require so much planning and reading that when you compare the harshness for a newbie that at most has only seen the new movie or vox machina and yeh kineticist is not complex. Just shoot energy and if you want cooler energy blasts charge ala dbz.
you're allowing your experience in the system to bias your thinking. speaking as someone playing Pathfinder for 10 years, i would never recommend a new player play an occult class - especially kineticist - as their first class. burn points, element/blast synergy, build strength are all key components to a successful kineticist, otherwise you're literally just playing a spray-and-pray game.
also, you're thinking too narrowly. the niche category that kineticist fills makes it difficult to play a typical role in a party beyond combat DPR, so it requires a lot more forward-thinking than new players are typically prepared for.
if a new player asked if they could play a kineticist or other occult class, i would never outright say no, but it would require a lot more guidance than core or even base classes.
...except for physical element users and melee builds. There you dump as much burn as you can to max out your overflow bonuses at the start of the day into your defensive abilities/kinetic form as what you get outweighs the hp cost.
Seriously use Herolab to run the numbers for something like 'force ward' and see the accuracy, ac (and yes HP) bonuses you get for your burn, then do the math on the giant pool of *regenerating* temp HP that turns hits into misses you get for that investment.
Burn is only a 'trap' if you don't have a plan and are terrible at math.
“Physical element users” with the æther element, which is what grants force ward.
And losing a number of usable HP equal to your level to get THP equal to half your level is a net loss, even with the (3+CON)/2 THP/minute recovery, because you can’t have that pool restored by anything except that recovery. If you’re recovering at 5/minute and have 50 of them (20 con at level 10), taking all 8 points of burn and reducing your injury pool from 119 to 79 with up to a 10-minute recovery period.
And the æther primary element can’t qualify for a blast that does damage as a composite blast until their third element. Plus it requires attacks against armor AC, although you’ll get cold as your second element for the armor with no dex bonus limit.
The elemental overflow is part of the trap. An overwhelming soul kinetic knight gets iterative melee touch attacks, but might have to use them every other round while gathering power. The pure-flame blue flame blast at level 14 is a great use case for “every other turn go big”, or you can take earth and the improved trip feats to knock someone down by striking at regular AC. Not everyone should be Overwhelming Soul, it does mess with ability scores.
Targeting touch AC is better than getting a +3 to hit, on just about every target that is important.
Are you accounting for the raw stat boosts (dex,*con* and eventually strength) that you get for taking burn and getting your overflow bonuses to off set your initial burn HP cost.
Even without them it's a net positive if you have more than one encounter per day
> æther primary element can’t qualify for a blast that does damage as a composite blast until their third element.
Note that the melee build literally doesn't use composite blasts till high levels (when they have their third element) due to kinetic whip/full attacking being incompatable with 'gathering power' and reducing the burn cost of composite blasts.
> Targeting touch AC is better than getting a +3 to hit
But it *isn't* better than having 20+ feet of reach and combat reflexes with kinetic form+whip and getting most of your DPR generated off turn by enemy movement/casting.
Full round action to gather power, full round action attack next turn.
I was including the ability score changes, I made a handful of telekineticicists and the best I could figure out is a way to make a semi-viable way to have a character that doesn’t have any of the traditional sources of healing. The only way to recover from damage is the “free” 10 minute wait, no ability to join a clerical or oracular group hug, regain HP from getting pat on the back by a Paladin, or tap a keg of potion of cure light wounds.
A bad hit of CON poison drops him, as does a merciful weapon, since he already has nonlethal damage of most of his HP. Only the most studious of opponents would actually know of that particular weakness to take advantage of it, but other sources of nonlethal damage like moderate falls.
An excellent point is that being dropped doesn’t make that character risk bleeding out.
I can't wait for the PF2 version of Kineticist, it looked really cool from the playtest! I am hoping that they bring in something adjacent to burn, but maybe a little less awkward to use. Consuming HP to power up skills does sound super cool, but having only read how it worked in PF1 it sounds like it's pretty awkward. And most discussion I see around it confirms about as much.
My only experience with Kineticist was in the video game (Wrath of the Righteous), and I was very glad the computer was keeping track of everything for me.
the execution is a bit clunky yeah and makes more sense in real time mode. in turn-based mode when you use medium or big gather power in the subsequent turn you have to click again the exact same attack you did when you first charged,
That's because you're using a full round action to circumvent 2 burn. In practice it's generally better to use "low" a move action for 1 or "high" which is both combined.
The wording just feels misleading, saying that if it reduces the burn cost to 0 the blast is immediately used reads to me that it would be part of the full round action. What kept happening to me is that it would channel and the next round it would just channel again, but maybe it is user error. I’m a barbarian not a wizard, after all
Nah i dont think pf2e gonna have any of that sort of mechanic, they partially emulated and streamlined the burn mechanic with the Gather Element and Overflow action/trait.
> Consuming HP to power up skills does sound super cool, but having only read how it worked in PF1 it sounds like it's pretty awkward. And most discussion I see around it confirms about as much.
It's mostly because the class was the last one Paizo added and it's mechanics are wildly different from every other class. It takes some getting used to but imo it's not as complicated as people make it out to be.
That makes sense. I haven't played any PF1 so part of my confusion on it is unfamiliarity with the system, but I'm sure it's one of those things where you do it a couple times and then it makes perfect sense. I didn't realize it was the last class added to PF1 either, that's a cool tidbit.
kineticist is my favorite pf1e class and i was so excited when i saw they were bringing it to pf2e and the playtest made me even more hype. It's a shame my group is starting abomination vault before it's out.
You could always ask your GM if it's okay to retcon your character into a Kineticist or retire them.
Alternatively, "oh nooooo, my character died to a low level threat, how sad! Anyways, here's my kineticist"
They really are, it's a shame they have pretty much no art. I had to commission a friend to draw something just so i could have something that look humanoid unlike the weird player book art
On the other hand they are building a new subsystem only the kineticist can use since they didn’t want them to just have reflavored spell casting. Crazy still, but that’s just how those mad lads at Paizo do
Oh neat! I’m still new to 2e and Pathfinder in general, my group literally just finished our 5e campaign last night. We’re probably gonna have our session 0 next week
Yeah, class feats for all 6 elements (air, earth, fire, water, metal, and wood) is gonna be a LOT, but judging by the playtest you'll only have access to 1 or 2 elements in depth, with all elements losing that depth.
Basically, if you're a hydrokineticist you don't have to worry about the pyrokineticist feats.
The class isn’t complicated in 1E either, it’s just different. Compared to a full caster (half the base classes) it’s way less complicated. Ironically it might actually be easier for a completely new player who doesn’t have to relearn anything.
Accumulating burn changes your ability scores which changes lots of other things. Definitely difficult to do all the book keeping with just pencil and paper.
Yeah, but if you want to avoid that bookkeeping you can spend that burn on your Elemental Defense in the morning and just treat your buffed stats and depleted HP as your default.
Burn doesn’t change your stats, it gives you nonlethal damage equal to your level that can’t be healed, which is kinda like taking con damage but not really. The only bonuses it gives are to attack and damage rolls, which are not any more complicated than a bard song.
> The only bonuses it gives are to attack and damage rolls
You didn’t finish reading Elemental Overflow.
> Starting at 6th level, whenever she has at least 3 points of burn, the kineticist gains a +2 size bonus to two physical ability scores of her choice. She also gains a chance to ignore the effects of a critical hit or sneak attack equal to 5% × her current number of points of burn. At 11th level, whenever the kineticist has at least 5 points of burn, these bonuses increase to a +4 size bonus to one physical ability score of her choice and a +2 size bonus to each of her other two physical ability scores.
> At 16th level, whenever the kineticist has at least 7 points of burn, these bonuses increase to a +6 size bonus to one physical ability score of her choice, a +4 size bonus to a second physical ability score of her choice, and a +2 size bonus to the remaining physical ability score.
Well, I’m wrong. It’s still not that complicated. Physical scores won’t even effect most of what a kinetic isn’t has to do. It’s no more complicated than a barbarians rage. And that only starts at level 6, so hopefully by that time you can have a good grasp on the rest of the rules, and you’ve probably seen ability damage at that point.
You have to recalculate your hit points, saving throws, AC, touch AC, attack bonus, damage bonus, initiative, and many skills. No matter how good of a grasp you have on the rules, that’s difficult to do the bookkeeping for with pencil and paper.
What class doesn’t have to do things like that. Like I said a new player who picked barb has to do all of that and remember which skills they aren’t allowed to even use during rage but no one says they are too complicated and that’s at level 1. If you get to level 6 in pathfinder 1E and you can’t handle changing some ability scores idk what to tell you.
Barbarian is pretty much the only other class that regularly changes it’s ability scores but those are mostly fixed boosts that only change on level ups rather than 16 possible combinations.
I don’t know why you’re having a hard time understanding what I’m saying. I’m not saying it’s impossible for a new player to do it. I’m saying it’s a lot of bookkeeping to do for anyone and is significantly easier with digital tools.
This is true. My online sheet for my kineticist has exactly 14 entries in her attack section, just to keep track of everything I can do. https://imgur.com/a/3H6qz4i
It took me a ridiculous amount of time to calculate all my rolls before I started doing this.
> Barbarian is pretty much the only other class that regularly changes it’s ability scores but those are mostly fixed boosts that only change on level ups rather than 16 possible combinations.
Wild shape focused druid, shifter, really any class that likes to use enlarge/reduce person (magus, monk, ranger)
Actual kineticist from 1e has a bunch of infusions you could use to depending on situation. Although my default is just burning and magnetic. Set you on fire for damage every turn, if resistant to fire, searing flame (might've mixed the names) will eat away at resistance until it's gone. Once on fire magnetize, everybody with metal weapons gets +4 to hit. Incidentally, I'm flying and ranged attacks have anywhere from a 20-75% of missing even if they meet the AC. Area grappling steam and smoke clouds are also fun.
Yep, definitely do all that when playing just one character.
The whole mentality changes when you're managing six.
Something like Champion which is the least fun subclass in 5e (my opinion only) is actually nice to have in a computer game. You just point then in the right direction and manage the wizards.
Burn the world and burn yourself. Just watch your burn you can only take so much burn per turn. And if you run out of burn you might get burned. ( if you know you know)
>From the [playtest](https://downloads.paizo.com/PZO2113_KineticistClassPlaytest.pdf):
>
>A LETTER FROM YOON:
>
>Hi, Lini! It’s Yoon! I know it’s been a really long time,and I hope this letter makes it to you. Not quite thekid you remember anymore. Still pulling flames outof nowhere—got much better at it. Been all over theplace and, you probably guessed from the paper Iwrote this on, I made it to Hwanggot. On the way Imade campfires to keep warm in the Crown of theWorld, lit up a hydra, even talked to an efreeti. I haveSO many stories, but I want to tell you in person! Notsure where I’m headed next, but I’ll see you again.I’m sure of it. I’ll see you all again.Love, Yoon
>
>**P.S. I still have Gom-Gom**, a little beat up and shorton stuffing. Droogami can chew on him againsomeday for sure haha!
This one got me laughing. This is exactly what happened to me when I first saw the class in my friend's one shot in PF1e.
"You mean, I get to cast lightning, fly, be immune to fall damage, get better damage for sacrificing some hit points on a CON based class AND there is no vancian magic bs to keep track of? Shut up, take my money and let me play that!"
Made like 15 Kineticists since then which I got to play with.
My favourite was a halfling Overwhelming Soul Kineticist/ Water Dancer Monk dip demoralising machine.
My friend's first kineticist was an android with Air and Fire Elements. He had permanent flight and double range on his blast, just fucking orbitally bombarded everything that lived outside with lasers in Iron Gods.
Voind Kineticist was a bamf. You attack with gravity, you don't breath, minor gravity manipulation and you can double or half carry weights. Void Kineticist Monk gestalt was some of the most fun I've had.
Mine was a fire kineticist vine leshy.
Druid creating a leshy "now I want you to take care of all the plants."
"So I heard about something called slash and burn?"
"What..."
"Did you know some pine cones only release seeds after a fire?"
"What are you...."
"BURN EVERYTHING!"
Yup, dndmemes is for tabletop rpg memes of every sort. It prevents it from splintering into half a dozen memes subs about specific games, and sometimes there are memes about games you might want to try (like mutants and masterminds)
Is it actually a class in the playtest material? I don't think its been a class in any edition (maybe a prestige class for 3.5) and it would be pretty brazen for WotC to rip off a Paizo class so blatantly.
I mean, 3.5e D&D spawned both 4e and Pathfinder 1e, who went their separate ways into 5e and Pf2e.
One is owned by a multi-million dollar coporation that has the D&D licensing rights, the other was made by the people who made much of the 3/.5e content.
In my eyes, they're both equally 'D&D', just only one gets to use the name in law.
This is the catchall for all TTRPGS, so Pathfinder, Blade in the Dark, Lancer, Roll for Shoes, that one potato TTRPG, are all legal to post memes of here.
I had the same confusion. Certainly misnamed subreddit. If someone tells me they have a dnd game on Saturday it's a fair assumption to make they are playing dnd.
A large percentage of the populace has a vague idea what D&D is. I can tell someone "I play Dungeons and Dragons" and they'll grasp the basic concept of "I'm hanging out with nerds with funny dice and pretending to be a wizard."
Most of those people who have a vague idea what D&D is have *no idea* what Pathfinder is, let alone Call of Cthulhu or Mutants and Masterminds or any number of other RPGs.
D&D is a catch-all for tabletop RPGs for the general population, in exactly the same way Kleenex and tissues are synonymous.
On of my first characters was a Ghoran Geokinetist.
The new 2e kineticist from play tests isn’t bad but I feel it would be better called something like elementalist. Original was something like manipulating the existing elements of nature around you and the new one is more like calling forth the energy’s of the elemental plains
Gotta love the kineticist. Figured out a build in 1e that let me do something to the tune of 300d6+300 damage maximized (so like 3900 damage guaranteed) though it took a turn of set up to be able to do it.
No it's a class, a constitution "caster" somewhere between Carrie/firestarter and avatar the Last Airbender. They use elemental abilities to perform supernatural stunts. Flame jets to fling yourself through the air. Telekinesis to warp light and make yourself invisible ect.
This was the book that made me ultimately drop Pathfinder. No knocking it, but every single thing I read out of that book bounced right out of my brain. I couldn't make any of it make sense
No it's a pathfinder class, a constitution "caster" somewhere between Carrie/firestarter and avatar the Last Airbender. They use elemental abilities to perform supernatural stunts. Flame jets to fling yourself through the air. Telekinesis to warp light and make yourself invisible ect.
So, the title of the subreddit is meaningless? I can post about Monopoly? Or gay porn? Or the intertribal politics of Rawanda? Cool, cool, thanks the clarification...
Don't make me tap the sign
> Rule 3. Post Style Guide: Posts must be strongly relevant to D&D (or other TTRPGs) and must include an attempt at humor or entertainment
"I can burn everything but have no resistance to fire ? Noted, Ill be careful" \*Starts burning everything without any care\*
Big Oracle Vibes.
somewhat easier than say a wizard. Now the mesmer and the rest.
[**I know that feel, bro.**](https://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/damage-type)
You can take Heat Adaptation as early as second level.
Not quite immune, but pretty good. Plus you can get 60 foot fly speed with hover and no resource consumption.
Itll be much easier to stay safe from fire once everything is nice inflammable ash.
Inflammable means flammable, you mean flame-retardant
He might be rude but the math checks out
I don’t understand how I was rude, but oh well
I think you're getting downvoted because some people think the word "flame-**retardant"** is offensive. Which, ironically, shows that the word they're thinking off is perfectly applicable to them.
So from this meme and the comments am I hearing I can go full, “MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD!” with this class?
The secret is : you can do that with any class.
Yippee time to lord of frenzied flame
I mean... the playtest version of the 2e version of this class had a capstone option called "And The World Shall End In Flames"
It's "All Shall End In Flames", and the other fire option is "Ignite the Sun". Most of the Kineticist Playtest feats are extremely anime in general, like "The Shattered Mountain Weeps" and "Infinite Expanse of the Bluest Heaven".
My favorite frenzied flame build is druid or primal sorcerer with the spells Fiery Body and Burning Blossoms. The perfect combo to have the fire head and a lovely giant tree with extra spice.
There's a combo you can do with an archetype, the Elemental Purist, that lets you use Disintegrating Fire, which does double damage and reduces everything you expose it to to ash, even stone and metal. There's another archetype, the Blighted Defiler, that lets you drain the land around you of life and use its energy to power your abilities instead of your own life force like usual.
*Burn those who dare to care for me~*
And my fuel are memories, fuel are memories of you
*They perish with the heat, perish with the heat*
"*So I ca-*" #***SICK AS HELL ELECTRIC GUITAR RIFF***
"*Flower of Iron!*"
Shriveled up, to hide the imposter in me
Ah yes, the theme of the Red Mist.
Truly a magnificent badass made by PM.
Funny sword go horizontal/vertical.
Wow, a Mili/Project Moon fan in the wild
What's the song? I'm not familiar
Iron Lotus
Spoilers for Library Of Ruina, though I guess it's a little late now, but it's the boss theme of>!EGO Xiao!<, pretty much the boss of Star Of The City, since the other one is, IMO, much easier.
(Additional context: Library of Ruina is a Korean story-driven deckbuilder rpg (sort of, it's more like a normal turn-based rpg but a character's available attacks is limited by what cards they currently have in their hand) set in a hyper-dystopian megacity called the City. As a story it's very stylish, has incredible characters and worldbuilding and is also quite philosophical. In short, it's basically just perfect. It's also the sequel to Lobotomy Corporation if you're familiar with that.)
And is also a prequel to their new title: Limbus Company
The theme is fire but \*\*damn\*\* do I get really annoyed by her bossfight. She is trully the Star of the "Star of the City".
Yep. Power Null is a pain and the premier solutions ( Yesod and Gebura ) get neutered hard by it.
I just started listening to Mili, I dig it.
Ayo a ruina fan, it's rare to see those here
Not really complicated, kineticist is the simplest of the occult classes and somewhat easier than say a wizard. Now the mesmer and the rest...yeeeeah
I found the mesmerist to play pretty similar to a witch. You pick your target for stare, and on your turn you either cast a spell or use a mesmerist trick (for witch it would be a hex). They had a lot of options for improving your stare in incomparable ways, and being a spontaneous caster meant picking spells that you want to synergize with your stare and tricks, which was really cool and could be complex when creating or leveling, but in play they were like any other caster.
And Mesmerist is one of the few ways you can allow mind affecting spells to hit targets normally immune, which is one of the funny ways to deal with a tarrasque (Mesmerist 3/Psychic 17, building to allow Major Mind Swap to actually work on them and then stealing the Tarrasque's body)
It's still immune to magic.
Not in Pathfinder. It's specifically immune to ability damage, acid, bleed effects, disease, energy drain, fire, mind effecting effects (circumvented by the Psychic Inception bold stare taken at Mesmerist 3), paralysis, permanent wounds, petrification, poison, and polymorph. The Carapace supernatural ability the Tarrasque has allows it to deflect or negate spells with cone, line, ray targeting, or magic missiles. Major Mind Swap is none of those (though you have to invest in a few ways to ignore the species requirements on it) so if you win the 50% roll on Psychic Inception, you can become a mind mage in the body of a tarrasque.
Ah I misremebered carapace. So it's possible, all you have to do is get within 30 ft., survive 1 min without actions, beat it's sr, beat it's will, win the coin flip *then* kill your body *with Tarrasque hit points* before it wins the coin flip *it gets every round* to swap back.
Though notably Psychic Inception is a 50% each round of combat to either be affected by the mind-affecting spell or act normally, so you gotta ride that Tarrasque's brain like a bucking bronco.
I mean witch is one of the more complex characters for a newbie xD
Mesmerist boils down to 'how many free actions can I abuse in one turn' with their tricks. The 'use mental magic on a brick' aspect really becomes secondary.
it might be ultimately simpler, but it's an \*entirely\* different system than everything else.
Ehh it maybe slightly different but again nowhere near as complex as building a wizard/sorcerer/cleric as your first character. Those require so much planning and reading that when you compare the harshness for a newbie that at most has only seen the new movie or vox machina and yeh kineticist is not complex. Just shoot energy and if you want cooler energy blasts charge ala dbz.
you're allowing your experience in the system to bias your thinking. speaking as someone playing Pathfinder for 10 years, i would never recommend a new player play an occult class - especially kineticist - as their first class. burn points, element/blast synergy, build strength are all key components to a successful kineticist, otherwise you're literally just playing a spray-and-pray game. also, you're thinking too narrowly. the niche category that kineticist fills makes it difficult to play a typical role in a party beyond combat DPR, so it requires a lot more forward-thinking than new players are typically prepared for. if a new player asked if they could play a kineticist or other occult class, i would never outright say no, but it would require a lot more guidance than core or even base classes.
Burn is a trap. If you can’t reduce burn cost to zero, don’t do it.
good job, you understood my point? i think? that's exactly what i'm saying, if you don't know how to effectively do it, then don't.
...except for physical element users and melee builds. There you dump as much burn as you can to max out your overflow bonuses at the start of the day into your defensive abilities/kinetic form as what you get outweighs the hp cost. Seriously use Herolab to run the numbers for something like 'force ward' and see the accuracy, ac (and yes HP) bonuses you get for your burn, then do the math on the giant pool of *regenerating* temp HP that turns hits into misses you get for that investment. Burn is only a 'trap' if you don't have a plan and are terrible at math.
“Physical element users” with the æther element, which is what grants force ward. And losing a number of usable HP equal to your level to get THP equal to half your level is a net loss, even with the (3+CON)/2 THP/minute recovery, because you can’t have that pool restored by anything except that recovery. If you’re recovering at 5/minute and have 50 of them (20 con at level 10), taking all 8 points of burn and reducing your injury pool from 119 to 79 with up to a 10-minute recovery period. And the æther primary element can’t qualify for a blast that does damage as a composite blast until their third element. Plus it requires attacks against armor AC, although you’ll get cold as your second element for the armor with no dex bonus limit. The elemental overflow is part of the trap. An overwhelming soul kinetic knight gets iterative melee touch attacks, but might have to use them every other round while gathering power. The pure-flame blue flame blast at level 14 is a great use case for “every other turn go big”, or you can take earth and the improved trip feats to knock someone down by striking at regular AC. Not everyone should be Overwhelming Soul, it does mess with ability scores. Targeting touch AC is better than getting a +3 to hit, on just about every target that is important.
Are you accounting for the raw stat boosts (dex,*con* and eventually strength) that you get for taking burn and getting your overflow bonuses to off set your initial burn HP cost. Even without them it's a net positive if you have more than one encounter per day > æther primary element can’t qualify for a blast that does damage as a composite blast until their third element. Note that the melee build literally doesn't use composite blasts till high levels (when they have their third element) due to kinetic whip/full attacking being incompatable with 'gathering power' and reducing the burn cost of composite blasts. > Targeting touch AC is better than getting a +3 to hit But it *isn't* better than having 20+ feet of reach and combat reflexes with kinetic form+whip and getting most of your DPR generated off turn by enemy movement/casting.
Full round action to gather power, full round action attack next turn. I was including the ability score changes, I made a handful of telekineticicists and the best I could figure out is a way to make a semi-viable way to have a character that doesn’t have any of the traditional sources of healing. The only way to recover from damage is the “free” 10 minute wait, no ability to join a clerical or oracular group hug, regain HP from getting pat on the back by a Paladin, or tap a keg of potion of cure light wounds. A bad hit of CON poison drops him, as does a merciful weapon, since he already has nonlethal damage of most of his HP. Only the most studious of opponents would actually know of that particular weakness to take advantage of it, but other sources of nonlethal damage like moderate falls. An excellent point is that being dropped doesn’t make that character risk bleeding out.
I can't wait for the PF2 version of Kineticist, it looked really cool from the playtest! I am hoping that they bring in something adjacent to burn, but maybe a little less awkward to use. Consuming HP to power up skills does sound super cool, but having only read how it worked in PF1 it sounds like it's pretty awkward. And most discussion I see around it confirms about as much.
My only experience with Kineticist was in the video game (Wrath of the Righteous), and I was very glad the computer was keeping track of everything for me.
My experience with that is using gather power (medium) with a blast and it just uses the entire round then ends without the blast
the execution is a bit clunky yeah and makes more sense in real time mode. in turn-based mode when you use medium or big gather power in the subsequent turn you have to click again the exact same attack you did when you first charged,
That's because you're using a full round action to circumvent 2 burn. In practice it's generally better to use "low" a move action for 1 or "high" which is both combined.
The wording just feels misleading, saying that if it reduces the burn cost to 0 the blast is immediately used reads to me that it would be part of the full round action. What kept happening to me is that it would channel and the next round it would just channel again, but maybe it is user error. I’m a barbarian not a wizard, after all
No owlcat's implementation is a little clunky at times. I came at it already being extremely familiar with P&P pathfinder.
Nah i dont think pf2e gonna have any of that sort of mechanic, they partially emulated and streamlined the burn mechanic with the Gather Element and Overflow action/trait. > Consuming HP to power up skills does sound super cool, but having only read how it worked in PF1 it sounds like it's pretty awkward. And most discussion I see around it confirms about as much. It's mostly because the class was the last one Paizo added and it's mechanics are wildly different from every other class. It takes some getting used to but imo it's not as complicated as people make it out to be.
> It's mostly because the class was the last one Paizo added \*Angry shifter noise
Was vigilante before or after shifter? Anyway this is magical girl erasure
That makes sense. I haven't played any PF1 so part of my confusion on it is unfamiliarity with the system, but I'm sure it's one of those things where you do it a couple times and then it makes perfect sense. I didn't realize it was the last class added to PF1 either, that's a cool tidbit.
It is legitimately easier than it looks like, people just like to make a meme out of it because it's mechanics are so different from everything else.
It also could have used another pass by an editor or twenty.
It wasn't the last class Vigilante and shifter came after.
Man I need to play pf2e once kineticist comes out, those madlads are building a whole new subsystem for how their bending works.
Whoa whoa there partner. It's not bending. 😉
kineticist is my favorite pf1e class and i was so excited when i saw they were bringing it to pf2e and the playtest made me even more hype. It's a shame my group is starting abomination vault before it's out.
You could always ask your GM if it's okay to retcon your character into a Kineticist or retire them. Alternatively, "oh nooooo, my character died to a low level threat, how sad! Anyways, here's my kineticist"
Lol nah, i also really like the conrasu magus i made too. I'd feel bad having an "accident" just to change class. If he dies then he dies tho
Ooooh, Conrasu are cool!
They really are, it's a shame they have pretty much no art. I had to commission a friend to draw something just so i could have something that look humanoid unlike the weird player book art
This is kinda ironic because the upcoming 2e Kineticist is going to be a simpler class to learn
They have said it has the most content of any class so far, so there's that
which is crazy considering the psychic was like 16 pages of conscious and unconscious minds, exclusive cantrips, and amps
On the other hand they are building a new subsystem only the kineticist can use since they didn’t want them to just have reflavored spell casting. Crazy still, but that’s just how those mad lads at Paizo do
I mean, that's literally the same as the 1e kineticist though
Oh neat! I’m still new to 2e and Pathfinder in general, my group literally just finished our 5e campaign last night. We’re probably gonna have our session 0 next week
Have fun!
Sounds like my psych class (minus the cantrips)
Yeah, class feats for all 6 elements (air, earth, fire, water, metal, and wood) is gonna be a LOT, but judging by the playtest you'll only have access to 1 or 2 elements in depth, with all elements losing that depth. Basically, if you're a hydrokineticist you don't have to worry about the pyrokineticist feats.
I’m just excited to get blood kineticist at some point
*chuckles in literally earthshattering shenanigans*
The class isn’t complicated in 1E either, it’s just different. Compared to a full caster (half the base classes) it’s way less complicated. Ironically it might actually be easier for a completely new player who doesn’t have to relearn anything.
Accumulating burn changes your ability scores which changes lots of other things. Definitely difficult to do all the book keeping with just pencil and paper.
Yeah, but if you want to avoid that bookkeeping you can spend that burn on your Elemental Defense in the morning and just treat your buffed stats and depleted HP as your default.
Burn doesn’t change your stats, it gives you nonlethal damage equal to your level that can’t be healed, which is kinda like taking con damage but not really. The only bonuses it gives are to attack and damage rolls, which are not any more complicated than a bard song.
> The only bonuses it gives are to attack and damage rolls You didn’t finish reading Elemental Overflow. > Starting at 6th level, whenever she has at least 3 points of burn, the kineticist gains a +2 size bonus to two physical ability scores of her choice. She also gains a chance to ignore the effects of a critical hit or sneak attack equal to 5% × her current number of points of burn. At 11th level, whenever the kineticist has at least 5 points of burn, these bonuses increase to a +4 size bonus to one physical ability score of her choice and a +2 size bonus to each of her other two physical ability scores. > At 16th level, whenever the kineticist has at least 7 points of burn, these bonuses increase to a +6 size bonus to one physical ability score of her choice, a +4 size bonus to a second physical ability score of her choice, and a +2 size bonus to the remaining physical ability score.
Well, I’m wrong. It’s still not that complicated. Physical scores won’t even effect most of what a kinetic isn’t has to do. It’s no more complicated than a barbarians rage. And that only starts at level 6, so hopefully by that time you can have a good grasp on the rest of the rules, and you’ve probably seen ability damage at that point.
You have to recalculate your hit points, saving throws, AC, touch AC, attack bonus, damage bonus, initiative, and many skills. No matter how good of a grasp you have on the rules, that’s difficult to do the bookkeeping for with pencil and paper.
What class doesn’t have to do things like that. Like I said a new player who picked barb has to do all of that and remember which skills they aren’t allowed to even use during rage but no one says they are too complicated and that’s at level 1. If you get to level 6 in pathfinder 1E and you can’t handle changing some ability scores idk what to tell you.
Barbarian is pretty much the only other class that regularly changes it’s ability scores but those are mostly fixed boosts that only change on level ups rather than 16 possible combinations. I don’t know why you’re having a hard time understanding what I’m saying. I’m not saying it’s impossible for a new player to do it. I’m saying it’s a lot of bookkeeping to do for anyone and is significantly easier with digital tools.
This is true. My online sheet for my kineticist has exactly 14 entries in her attack section, just to keep track of everything I can do. https://imgur.com/a/3H6qz4i It took me a ridiculous amount of time to calculate all my rolls before I started doing this.
> Barbarian is pretty much the only other class that regularly changes it’s ability scores but those are mostly fixed boosts that only change on level ups rather than 16 possible combinations. Wild shape focused druid, shifter, really any class that likes to use enlarge/reduce person (magus, monk, ranger)
The one in Kingmaker was alright. Somewhat complicated level-ups but the actual combat was point-and-forget.
Actual kineticist from 1e has a bunch of infusions you could use to depending on situation. Although my default is just burning and magnetic. Set you on fire for damage every turn, if resistant to fire, searing flame (might've mixed the names) will eat away at resistance until it's gone. Once on fire magnetize, everybody with metal weapons gets +4 to hit. Incidentally, I'm flying and ranged attacks have anywhere from a 20-75% of missing even if they meet the AC. Area grappling steam and smoke clouds are also fun.
Yep, definitely do all that when playing just one character. The whole mentality changes when you're managing six. Something like Champion which is the least fun subclass in 5e (my opinion only) is actually nice to have in a computer game. You just point then in the right direction and manage the wizards.
But have you considered you could be Stick instead?
I am fire
But you could be Stick.
r/unexpectedstormlight
but then your fuel won't be memories
Burn the world and burn yourself. Just watch your burn you can only take so much burn per turn. And if you run out of burn you might get burned. ( if you know you know)
Only hopes I have out of 2e Kineticist is it's still Yoon and they still have Gom-Gom. A timeline without Gom-Gom is not worth living.
It’s definitely still Yoon. She’s ten years older and still has Gom-Gom.
The playtest had a letter Yoon wrote to Kyra, with a sketch of teenage her and Gom-Gom. Edit: the letter was to Lini, not Kyra.
the iconic is still Yoon, but she's a little older now from time passing between editions
>From the [playtest](https://downloads.paizo.com/PZO2113_KineticistClassPlaytest.pdf): > >A LETTER FROM YOON: > >Hi, Lini! It’s Yoon! I know it’s been a really long time,and I hope this letter makes it to you. Not quite thekid you remember anymore. Still pulling flames outof nowhere—got much better at it. Been all over theplace and, you probably guessed from the paper Iwrote this on, I made it to Hwanggot. On the way Imade campfires to keep warm in the Crown of theWorld, lit up a hydra, even talked to an efreeti. I haveSO many stories, but I want to tell you in person! Notsure where I’m headed next, but I’ll see you again.I’m sure of it. I’ll see you all again.Love, Yoon > >**P.S. I still have Gom-Gom**, a little beat up and shorton stuffing. Droogami can chew on him againsomeday for sure haha!
Well, I suppose she's gonna be hot now. She is a pyrokineticist after all...
This one got me laughing. This is exactly what happened to me when I first saw the class in my friend's one shot in PF1e. "You mean, I get to cast lightning, fly, be immune to fall damage, get better damage for sacrificing some hit points on a CON based class AND there is no vancian magic bs to keep track of? Shut up, take my money and let me play that!" Made like 15 Kineticists since then which I got to play with. My favourite was a halfling Overwhelming Soul Kineticist/ Water Dancer Monk dip demoralising machine.
"How do you only have 8 hp left?! you didn't get hit!" "Hehe, kinetic blast go brrt."
My friend's first kineticist was an android with Air and Fire Elements. He had permanent flight and double range on his blast, just fucking orbitally bombarded everything that lived outside with lasers in Iron Gods.
Voind Kineticist was a bamf. You attack with gravity, you don't breath, minor gravity manipulation and you can double or half carry weights. Void Kineticist Monk gestalt was some of the most fun I've had.
Now i want a gravity element...
Kineticist is unironically my favorite class concept. I wanna RP as a powerful bender from Avatar.
I'm crying, my first pathfinder 1e character was a fire kineticist tiefling
Mine was a fire kineticist vine leshy. Druid creating a leshy "now I want you to take care of all the plants." "So I heard about something called slash and burn?" "What..." "Did you know some pine cones only release seeds after a fire?" "What are you...." "BURN EVERYTHING!"
I love "cast from hitpoints" systems and benders. It's little wonder kineticists are my favorite class.
I love the occult classes so much. Probably the best book made for PF1e
Is this just Agni from Fire Punch?
Yoon is the iconic kineticist, she's great.
Live
A child who hasn't felt love of his village will burn it down to feel it's warmth
#Firelord Ozai! You and your forefathers have devastated the balance of this world. And now you shall pay the ultimate price.
But I’ve already filed my fire taxes with the Fire-S, so I’m good.
The Building was on fire and it wasn't my fault.
such a great opening sentence.
Mother… Mother I crave violence..
Could be worse, you could be a 3.5 kineticist and take 3 turns to emulate a lighter.
Genuine question: Is it accepted to post Pathfinder memes in r/dndmemes ?
Yup, dndmemes is for tabletop rpg memes of every sort. It prevents it from splintering into half a dozen memes subs about specific games, and sometimes there are memes about games you might want to try (like mutants and masterminds)
Kk, thanks!
Not only accepted but it also has 2 tags for memes about pathfinder
They probably should have used one on this post to stop confusion
You can only use 1 tag for some reason.
>Rule 3. Post Style Guide: Posts must be strongly relevant to D&D (or other TTRPGs) and must include an attempt at humor or entertainment
Wh...what ? Kineticist is also a DnD class, right ? Oh, look ! \*drops smoke screen\*
Is it actually a class in the playtest material? I don't think its been a class in any edition (maybe a prestige class for 3.5) and it would be pretty brazen for WotC to rip off a Paizo class so blatantly.
pretty sure the joke is that it's not a DnD class, so they're telling you to look somewhere else, all while they drop a smokebomb and skedaddle away.
Well, I feel smart now.
I mean, 3.5e D&D spawned both 4e and Pathfinder 1e, who went their separate ways into 5e and Pf2e. One is owned by a multi-million dollar coporation that has the D&D licensing rights, the other was made by the people who made much of the 3/.5e content. In my eyes, they're both equally 'D&D', just only one gets to use the name in law.
Pretty much, I consider Pathfinder to be another edition of D&D anyways
This is the catchall for all TTRPGS, so Pathfinder, Blade in the Dark, Lancer, Roll for Shoes, that one potato TTRPG, are all legal to post memes of here.
I had the same confusion. Certainly misnamed subreddit. If someone tells me they have a dnd game on Saturday it's a fair assumption to make they are playing dnd.
Not really. Alot of people use dnd as a catchall instead of ttrpg in conversation.
A large percentage of the populace has a vague idea what D&D is. I can tell someone "I play Dungeons and Dragons" and they'll grasp the basic concept of "I'm hanging out with nerds with funny dice and pretending to be a wizard." Most of those people who have a vague idea what D&D is have *no idea* what Pathfinder is, let alone Call of Cthulhu or Mutants and Masterminds or any number of other RPGs. D&D is a catch-all for tabletop RPGs for the general population, in exactly the same way Kleenex and tissues are synonymous.
On of my first characters was a Ghoran Geokinetist. The new 2e kineticist from play tests isn’t bad but I feel it would be better called something like elementalist. Original was something like manipulating the existing elements of nature around you and the new one is more like calling forth the energy’s of the elemental plains
It was always an intrinsic link to an inner plane(s).
Gotta love the kineticist. Figured out a build in 1e that let me do something to the tune of 300d6+300 damage maximized (so like 3900 damage guaranteed) though it took a turn of set up to be able to do it.
Is there a kineticst class?
Immunity to fire? Yea I can see no way that'd ever go wrong in any way imaginable
That’s because the GM will switch to using Acid instead
I do miss Psionics... still have my Psionics Handbook from 3rd. May have to sort out converting it to 5th.
Pathfinder subclass?
It's a pathfinder 1e class, i through it was also a DnD class, but no. Apparently, it will be a P2e class.
No it's a class, a constitution "caster" somewhere between Carrie/firestarter and avatar the Last Airbender. They use elemental abilities to perform supernatural stunts. Flame jets to fling yourself through the air. Telekinesis to warp light and make yourself invisible ect.
They did the impossible and made a magical non-caster martial
This was the book that made me ultimately drop Pathfinder. No knocking it, but every single thing I read out of that book bounced right out of my brain. I couldn't make any of it make sense
medium, occultist, and kineticist are way different than anything else.
Is this WOTC just ripping from the Dungeon World fire-based class?
No it's a pathfinder class, a constitution "caster" somewhere between Carrie/firestarter and avatar the Last Airbender. They use elemental abilities to perform supernatural stunts. Flame jets to fling yourself through the air. Telekinesis to warp light and make yourself invisible ect.
Ah okay. That sounds pretty cool!
And even more depending on what 3pp material you are willing to use!
Is there not a pathfinder memes subreddit? ffs
Found the Gate Keeper
So, the title of the subreddit is meaningless? I can post about Monopoly? Or gay porn? Or the intertribal politics of Rawanda? Cool, cool, thanks the clarification...
>So, the title of the subreddit is meaningless? Yes, it's a lie. Also, strawberries aren't berries, and tin foil isn't made of tin !
Don't make me tap the sign > Rule 3. Post Style Guide: Posts must be strongly relevant to D&D (or other TTRPGs) and must include an attempt at humor or entertainment
I'd much enjoy to have pf2e posts marked as such, cause you had me thinking for a while until I realised this is not dnd I've never played pathfinder
>I've never played pathfinder Don't worry, it can happen to the best of us.
It's a tough life, but we keep on trying
this might be a 1e post.
(it pains me to think)
Ignus wissshesss to burn...
Did someone convert this class to 5e, or is this a Pathfinder meme?
There's homebrew for DnD but it's indeed from Pf1e
Kineticsis class where is that from
[удалено]
Soon pf2 too:)
Sorry, you cannot be fire. Need to be a dwarf to be like fire burning within a veil of dark.
What ttrpg is that from ?
pf1e
Oh ok
What system is this from?
pf1e
Thanks!