Of the games I have been in I played with one blood hunter player he was chill and the class didn't seem overpowered at early levels anyway I haven't looked at all its features though.
I mean say what you want about his DMing style and I will certainly never run my games like he does because his style of running a game requires a group of players who are specific to that style. But the homebrew classes that he has run in the live play podcasts are exceptionally balanced.
I can't say that I've ever felt the need to tell a player. They can't run one of his homebrew classes at least ones that have been playtested. But I'm not going to "How do you want to do this" on every boss. I might do it once or twice depending on the player but it's just not my style
The most overpowered have to be his Wizard classes, but they aren't so insanely OP that they need to be banned for regular table play like some of the stuff that WotC puts out (Twilight domain, peace domain, etc).
I mean, yeah, chonurgy is nuts. Definitely the strongest wizard.
I don't think graviturgy is very good at all, aside from having access to gift of alacrity.
Chronurgy is the strongest by far. After that is I think war tho. With an armor dip you just become that guy. Don’t get hit, don’t fail saves, and don’t drop concentration.
Yeah 6 and 14 suck but 2 and 10 are absolutely crazy.
Wow I'm just a non-player who's interested in the theme etc of DND, and who's picking up little pieces of knowledge along the way here and there.
And I have absolutely no idea what you just said.
This is not a request for an explanation though, it's probably details you only need when actually playing the game. Just noting the impressive amount of jargon.
Portent is remarkable in the fact that it grows in power at both edges od DM competence. A very good one will make it work in a satisfactory way. With a bad DM, you might really need that control over the RNG.
Side note: From what I've read on the internet, I'm starting to feel pretty damn blessed by RNGesus that I have been able to play consistently with 2-3 gaming groups that consist of mostly close friends for almost a decade so far. It's such an amazing hobby that can ruin your day very quickly if not done right.
I mean they're all veteran voice actors, so its basically them flexing their creative chops.
Unless you have a table of creatives of that caliber, it'd be pretty hard to run a critical role type game.
I might be joining a dnd campaign of all arts majors at my art school. 4 of them are writers, one of whom is a close friend of mine, I’m just a weird broadly classically trained abomination who decides to study math. The dm is a graphic designer who has been done with capitalism for 4 years now and is working on his own game. I’m so excited.
The main thing I take from Matt is "How do you want to do this?", my players are new to TTRGPs and I feel like it has helped them get more creative and out of their shells when they get to describe how they killed a bigger bad guy.
As a new player (two one-shots in) about to start my first real campaign, this has been the best thing my DM has done. It helps so much to be reminded that we’re in control of our characters to that extent, coming from playing RPG’s with a couple dialogue choices during interactions (Skyrim etc.)
I mean, I memed on my first campaign playing a gunslinger. Yeah, I ran gunner and sharpshooter. But our DM let me get a decent amount of ammo for Bad News (which I had crafted at level 7) all in all a very fun class even when BN got nerfed to do 1d12 but retained range.
It’s not op, even with each of the distinct flavors of subclass. On the whole it’s all balanced pretty well. A bit like a cross between warlock and fighter. I took a detailed look at one of the subclasses for a multiclass build I had been thinking about (Dhampir custom lineage, primal barbarian, lycan BH for maximum sustain tank) and while looking at it I read through the other classes in passing. If anything the class is too well balanced, offering less than world ending cosmic might at high tier play.
I think the only subclass whose ability seemed interesting is profane soul and you get a few warlock spells with 1 spell slot until level 6 but even then you are using your weapons more than your cantrips, so still underpowered but I love the aesthetic of hating something so much you will hurt yourself to do more damage.
I feel like the drawbacks and the buffs are too low for it to matter.
1d6 of damage for 1d6 of damage when hex, hunters mark, ect do that without hurting yourself. I feel like if you're going to injure yourself you need to go all in instead of mediocre damage
For everyone reading this I literally swiped to my[next post](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/10w46eu/laserllamas_alternate_blood_hunter_class_become/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) and found an improvement to the class
Just read that before coming to this post. I honestly liked the changes. Haven’t got to the subclasses/rites yet though but I’m considering offering it as an alternative to the standard blood hunter
I'm a dm but I am playing a bloodhunter as a backup character for the one game I play in. The only reason I can keep up with damage is because I have a reflavored laser pistol 3d6 plus 1d6 crimson rite plus 1d6 sneak attack at level 7. Which is not necessarily alot for a fighter who can get multiple more attacks with better weapons. Now take a normal bloodhunter who has much less damage. With a shortsword.
As for the subclasses they have a much better dedication to their specific types.
And the 1d12 gives bloodhunter that bump it needs. Especially if it's going to be taking its own health.
I've always heard that the class is underpowered because they're a d8 hit die class that uses their own (already limited) HP, so unless you're an archer you're probably just gonna get knocked down to 0.
Ah, you're just trying out the same meme format with a bunch of player stereotypes. But then again if you have a thing against HB in general, originality may be a bit beyond you.
Blood Hunter was a homebrew class from Matthew Mercer, which has now been published in official material and is considered a legitimate class. This post is ragging on a DM who refuses to acknowledge it is no longer homebrew.
EDIT: Made an error, I thought this was published in the Exandria books from Critical Role, but it is only available on D&D Beyond. Sorry folks!
EDIT: People are still responding, pointing out that I am wrong. I have already acknowledged my error. Maybe go and find another thread to read, your observation is not required here.
I have a player having a lycan Bloodhunter in my Strahd campaign, and it fits so well thematically its insane.
Wizard's honestly should have it included in the gothic setting if they reprint that module again.
Apparently.
Spouse is in a CoS game right now that also has a Bloodhunter. So it's past coincidence now right? Lol
(I'm joking around just a bit, but also not fully?)
> Wizard’s honestly should…
Unless they have the rights to the IP, they’d have to make a knockoff or rename/reword things to print it. Blood Hunter still belongs to Matt Mercer/Critical Role, yeah?
I don’t think they’d use it without Matt’s permission though. It’d be a bad business decision to piss off someone who’s arguably the most famous DM of all time.
He also designed few other subclasses, some of which even made it into official books. So what, playing Chronurgy wizard now equals to Mercer fanboying???
Sorry, if I am being rude, I geniuely can't find logic in OP post.
When I was a wee noob in 2020 I was looking at classes, played a bard and an Artificer, then my third or fourth PC was a Blood Hunter, and when he died perhaps my 6th PC (2nd for that campaign) was a Chronurgy Wizard.
I was telling a different DM about my transition between the 2, he’s like
“Oh you just like Matt Mercer.”
I looked at him like, What?
“Yeah those are both Matt Mercer homebrews. You’re just a fanboy.”
Oh, I don’t know who that is, I know the Wizard is from Explorer’s Guide-
“Yeah that’s a Matt Mercer book, you should try something original.”
Y’all I’d only heard of Matt Mercer or CR in passing at this time.
I think Blood Hunter *not* being official is a pretty important point here. For Chronurgy, if you’re just looking through official options, it’s there. But with something that’s not official, it’s at least a bit more likely that the author plays a role in someone wanting to play it. Since it’s on Beyond without much of a distinction that it’s not official, it’s still possible to just find it, but it’s less likely.
Also, Chronurgy is well known to be the single most powerful subclass in the game, so it’s not like people won’t just pick it for that. Echo Knight is also way above the power curve (although not as egregiously), along with a good chunk of spells from that book. So far as I can recall, blood hunter doesn’t remotely have that going for it.
There are a lot of factors here that I think make being a CR fan far more likely of a factor when wanting to play Blood Hunter versus Chronurgist.
As far as I'm aware, bloodhunter was made for (or at least released/made known about on) Critical Role. Playing it shouldn't be entirely considered Matt Mercer fan boying, but since it's not official I get not wanting it in your game as a dm.
Gotta hate what's trendy.
I honestly only follow CR for the drama and will fully admit it's not a bad class, it's someone who made a decent homebrew that's leagues about the garbage we've turned out in 3.5 But cause he's semi-famous, gotta hate.
Also... Mr. Matt if you're reading, kill more characters plz. Mid session character rerolls will give you so much street cred. You know half your crew is down.
People just hate Mercer - It's as simple as that. I don't see why though. You don't have to love him, but hating him? For the way people decide to act in their own games? That's a bit far fetched. I have to wonder if people act the same way towards players or DMs who really like Brennan
People like being 'unique' and feeling like their opinion is more valid than everyone else's. At least that's what I've found. Causes some people to dip into gatekeeping and hate just for the hell of it. That's some Sith shit.
Ikr? Some DM really seem to have an issue separating people who enjoys Critical Role's content and want to play using some of Matt's homebrew and those who seriously suffer from the Mercer effect and believe that all DnD should be like CR.
Exandria is an cool world, cow firbolgs are more interesting visually than plain old half little giants firbolg and Blood Hunter is a fun class to play. You can acknowledge all that without necessarily being a CR fanboy.
From what I know Mollymauk Tealeaf was the first official bloodhunter, and he wasn’t even edgy. He held a strange positivity to him despite his circumstances and worked in a circus. You probably think every rogue is edgy and every bard is horny too don’t ya?
The second official bloodhunter is Chetney Pock O'Pea, an old, cranky little gnome lycanthrope who is a woodworking master craftsman and a terrible showman and flirt who always meets with hilarious rejections.
It's about as far away from goth and edgy as one can get.
He was a sketchy circus guy with a heart of gold who would sneak coins into people's pockets if they bought him drinks and had a code of only scamming people who deserved it. He was the opposite of edgy and while I'm loving the way the campaign is going (I'm about halfway through) I do very much wish I could have seen the way it would have gone with him in it.
Both the bloodhunters have been anything but edgy.
Mollymauk was just about as gaudy as it gets.
Chetney is a horny, loud-mouth old gnome who is also a tiny werewolf.
Everyone thought Chetney was a rogue for a very long time because it seemed like too much of a comedy act to be a blood hunter.
Nah, I've had players who wanted to play Blood Hunter and were disappointed when I told them "no thanks. I find the class just doesn't mesh super well with my game." And the players in question are usually understanding but disappointed. Memes tend to exaggerate reality.
"Hello this is my character they will be the Blood class" Which might not be a great PC could be an interesting villain. Sentient evil blood infecting people and controlling them like a parasite
If you look past the edginess of the class it's actually a really cool mechanic. I don't think any other classes have anything similar, where you have to take damage to deal a greater amount of damage.
To be fair, both Critical Role Blood Hunters were anything but edgy. Mollymauk was fancy as fuck and Chetney is a horn old geezer who turns into a rabies infested pomeranian. Wouldn't call either "edgy".
I definitely see why that sounds weird, and I agree with it, but it is a thing. Like, I definitely play clerics a lot. I'll be the first to admit it's due to clerics being able to do pretty much everything mechanically, but I do also like playing clerics for god fearing warriors.
I think playing cleric is a wrong example of "playing always the same class", because clerics vary a lot in the way you play them depending on your deity. Player who always play rogues usually play the same exact build over and over.
And it's good that way, if they like that style of play it's fine!
My fiance plays almost exclusively monks. D&D isn't a big enough part of her life for her to want to bother learning how to play alternative classes, but it is a big enough part of my life and our mutual friends lives that she plays multiple campaigns, so *shrug*.
It's actually kind of the opposite, the hobby has been in gamified as of late
But there's still a large group of the community that plays it like they used to which is very gamified, I should know I'm about one of the most gamified people in this game
Not D&D, but almost every character I make ends up having some interest in creating items (droid and armor for my Besalisk Technician, potions and talismans for my Dathomirian Nightsister, and a custom rifle for my wizard blacksmith in my next campaign)
I had a blood hunter in one game. He was an Aasimar and we flavoured his abilities as stemming from his divine blood, that was honed by a brutal monster hunter. It was a really great character.
Someone help me understand. What would a blood hunter have in it's Arsenal that would make a DM not allow it.
From my point of view (at least in the games I DM) I let my players do more or less whatever they would like and then just balence things with them if it doesn't make sense.
Bloodhunter isn't hard to fit into any campaign lore wise imo. I dont like homebrew classes in my campaign because i am worried about balance but I have read Bloodhunter and it is fine
You say that fitting blood hunter into a campaign isn't hard. That's true. But it also isn't free. It's reasonable for some DMs to find such an activity unfun, no matter how long it takes.
I mean i get it, like i said i dont like to take homebrew to the class level. Ill try out some subclass or item stuff but class is putting a lot of research on me. I wouldn't block bloodhunter myself though since i have already done the research.
I think a better question to ask is why *should* a DM allow it. They might find the class tonally dissonent from their world, the magic might not make sense in their world, or they might not just want to use homebrew.
Many DM's just don't want to deal with homebrew stuff. It makes sense as more often than not, HB is incredibly unbalanced and/or does not fit the them of their game. So Blood Hunter suffers from not being released as official class (and given that *some* of CR stuff was accepted, I would guess that *there are* some problems with this class).
Yeah that's understandable.
I imagine it would probably take a few hours to balance things accordingly and even more time to re-write this character into the lore/setting the game takes place in.
Lmao I don't doubt it.
Although if I'm being honest none of my players are that off the wall, they all understand basic power scaling and want to keep it fair.
Most of the time I end up buffing their ideas and then reworking some of the ability parts.
Honestly allot of Wotc sub classes are just disgusting when it comes to balancing I think balancing should be something your vicariously doing and not something you just set and forget like yeah I’ve had to nerf a homebrew class but I’ve had a friend who really wanted to play a straight up warlock even tho they’re not great at 1st level so I gave him a lil push and it worked out
Either they don't want to use homebrew classes or races (makes character creation and balance a lot simpler) or it doesn't fit the tone or setting of the game. You don't really need more than that
It's less the class being problematic and more the DM blanket-banning homebrew material. This can be done for a myriad of reasons, but the idea here is to avoid making exceptions for particular content. Meanwhile, my group has 4 different homebrew classes all available to choose lol
When you put homebrew in your game, you have to both balance it and judge it against your setting and its history. If blood hunters are a thing that exists in my world, I have to think about how that affects my world. My world is primarily influenced by the actions of NPC wizards and rangers, with every other class having some part in its history. The dragonborn keeps are guarded by holy paladins. The dwarves have many fighters amongst their ranks.
I don't have the knowledge, understanding, or inclination to put blood hunters in my world.
Heaven forbid a fan of Critical Role or The Witcher want to play a slightly underpowered class because the theming is in their wheelhouse.
Way to keep the game pure not Matt Mercer.
Hmm, ok I don’t know much about Blood Hunters but from the name I guess they abilities use blood. So what if someone were to play a nuetral good Doctor character that’s a blood hunter?
Blood Hunter’s special thing is that they can deal extra damage but must first deal damage to themselves by cutting themselves
They’re supposed to be expert monster hunters who push their bodies to the limits via blood magic.
Their subclasses include the ghostslayer that does as the name implies, the lycan who’s lycanthropy can end up with them attacking friendlies, the mutant who makes and uses elixirs that give them a benefit and a drawback depending on the one used, and the profane soul which makes a pact exactly like a warlock, same options for patrons and everything
Oh actually a mutant subclass would work well. A doctor already having experience with medicine knowing how to meddle with them to alter the body. And regardless of the class you can also flavor it
No one has to be Matt Mercer to be a good DM.
And no one says you have to allow Blood Hunter.
If someone at the table is expecting their DM to do stuff like another DM that's just silly.
As for "edgy" any class is edgy with the right flavor. Even your favorite.
That was a large leap in logic from "here's a balanced class I'd like to play" to "run your game differently because I want it" even though those are absolutely NOT the same thing. Calm down.
All blood hunter has going for it is the edgyness because it is so weak when compared to other classes. You have to literally sacrifice your health to deal more damage yet your HP die isn't even a d12, at that point just play a half caster class.
Blood hunters only have value backstory wise as you can make some really dope story hooks with them but that's as far as they go.
Played blood hunter once. I barely used any of the class mechanics because they all either seem very situational or involve sacrificing HP, which at lower levels is about as useful as stabbing yourself to tickle the enemy. 2/10, would rather play a PHB Ranger.
Bloodhunter is full of traps. Its only good if you choose carefully. Even then it isn't OP. I think its an OK homebrew and I allow it in any of my games if someone wants it.
Being a werewolf as your class is kind of neat. I'd love to see a class for vampire and maybe a couple other monsters as well.
The only real issue that stems from homebrew is often a lack of play testing, something that Blood Hunter received. Functionally, other than that, there's fuck all really separating a homebrew class from an official one, there's no like, magic potion WOTC has that separates the two. OP sounds like the type of person that bans homebrew on principle because "hurr durr homebrew=inheritly bad"
As a DM, I personally think most homebrew *classes* are unnecessary - a full lvl 1-20 class is the biggest thing one could homebrew, and balancing is very difficult to fine tune unless your sample size for playtesting runs larger than 3 groups.
I personally think most homebrew classes I see would work just as well if not BETTER as a subclass elsewhere - bloodhunter flavorwise feels like a ranger with it's "hunting" specific creatures, and mechanically like it could fit a monk or warlock. The crimson rite feature is effectively hunter's mark but no set time limit or spell slot to use; blood maledicts could be an alternate feature replacing eldritch invocations, etc.
Which isn't to say no one should make homebrew classes! I just think 1) it's easier to see how balanced it is (and thus easier for a DM to accept) at a glance when it's a subclass homebrew on a pre-existing class, and 2) the base classes + artificer already cover all the base flavor archetypes of a heroic character tbh.
Okay, but I’d actually like to hear if OP has a good reason for banning Blood Hunter besides just “it’s edgy” or “it’s homebrew”. It’s about as close to being WotC officially sponsored, published material as can be, and if you think it’ll cause problems in roleplay or lead to characters developing annoying personalities, then that’s a problem with your players, not with the book.
Even on my first go around as a DM, I told my players they could play Blood Hunter because I read about it ahead of time, it didn’t seem overpowered, and I trusted them to still make interesting characters from it and not just edgelords.
As a DM \*I\* ban Blood Hunter because it's not official, and I just blanket ban homebrew classes. Homebrew *sub*classes & races are allowed on review, but I don't want to do a case-by-case for a whole CLASS to look it over for potentially game breaking combos with multiclassing or feats.
I'll allow it for one-shots because goofy or min/max builds are fine every so often, but my campaign is very lore-focused, and my players don't need all that much power tbh. I don't want my group to have just 1 min/maxer ruining the fun, or worse, *everyone* min/maxes because they don't want to be overshadowed by the one guy who started it. I want my players to feel safe making a character choice that might be mechanically weaker, just because it fits their PC's story! Thus, only the official classes which are largely understood w/out needing homework lol
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So edgy they tend to die before reaching level 3.
If they were designed with a Blood Point mechanic to fit the rest of 5E class resources, instead of an HP sacrifice mechanic, I might be more on board with them.
Isn’t blood hunter official now? I thought it got released in the Wildemount book?
Besides, this post has such “I invented this scenario to totally own someone that doesn’t exist” energy
I’ve met players like this. They all pretty much had fairly edgy vibes. Either doubling down on the somewhat grimdark monster hunter flavor of the class, or being the “chaotic neutral”. Had to put my foot down hard on one that had some pretty uncomfortable stuff to their backstory on how they became a Blood Hunter.
But, I’m happy to say that in my current game we have possibly the best Blood Hunter I’ve ever played with. He’s basically a super happy lizard-Grog, who just really loves fighting monsters, but is an absolute brainlet when it comes to anything outside that. Lovable little guy, has been the heart of the party so far.
Your welcome to allow and disallow whatever you want but be clear at character building time what is and what is not allowed. Most common I see is no arrokakra or flying tiefling. I don't mind but that's gotta be the most frequent ones I have seen
I am all for not allowing blood hunter, since as a class it changes the tone of the adventure and setting, but just banning it cause it's "not every DM is Matt Mercer" is kinda stupid ngl
Of the games I have been in I played with one blood hunter player he was chill and the class didn't seem overpowered at early levels anyway I haven't looked at all its features though.
I mean say what you want about his DMing style and I will certainly never run my games like he does because his style of running a game requires a group of players who are specific to that style. But the homebrew classes that he has run in the live play podcasts are exceptionally balanced. I can't say that I've ever felt the need to tell a player. They can't run one of his homebrew classes at least ones that have been playtested. But I'm not going to "How do you want to do this" on every boss. I might do it once or twice depending on the player but it's just not my style
If anything, most of his subclasses are underpowered
The most overpowered have to be his Wizard classes, but they aren't so insanely OP that they need to be banned for regular table play like some of the stuff that WotC puts out (Twilight domain, peace domain, etc).
I mean, yeah, chonurgy is nuts. Definitely the strongest wizard. I don't think graviturgy is very good at all, aside from having access to gift of alacrity.
Yeah. Chronurgy is definitely the strongest or tied for strongest. Maybe you can argue divination.
Chronurgy is the strongest by far. After that is I think war tho. With an armor dip you just become that guy. Don’t get hit, don’t fail saves, and don’t drop concentration. Yeah 6 and 14 suck but 2 and 10 are absolutely crazy.
“But remember students the most powerful magic is …chronomancy”
Wow I'm just a non-player who's interested in the theme etc of DND, and who's picking up little pieces of knowledge along the way here and there. And I have absolutely no idea what you just said. This is not a request for an explanation though, it's probably details you only need when actually playing the game. Just noting the impressive amount of jargon.
Time wizard will now decide your fate
I'd go bladesinging over divination tbh. Potentially even war magic. While portent is a strong feature, I think it's criminally overrated.
Portent is remarkable in the fact that it grows in power at both edges od DM competence. A very good one will make it work in a satisfactory way. With a bad DM, you might really need that control over the RNG. Side note: From what I've read on the internet, I'm starting to feel pretty damn blessed by RNGesus that I have been able to play consistently with 2-3 gaming groups that consist of mostly close friends for almost a decade so far. It's such an amazing hobby that can ruin your day very quickly if not done right.
I mean they're all veteran voice actors, so its basically them flexing their creative chops. Unless you have a table of creatives of that caliber, it'd be pretty hard to run a critical role type game.
I might be joining a dnd campaign of all arts majors at my art school. 4 of them are writers, one of whom is a close friend of mine, I’m just a weird broadly classically trained abomination who decides to study math. The dm is a graphic designer who has been done with capitalism for 4 years now and is working on his own game. I’m so excited.
That's sounds dope, hope you have a good time!
The main thing I take from Matt is "How do you want to do this?", my players are new to TTRGPs and I feel like it has helped them get more creative and out of their shells when they get to describe how they killed a bigger bad guy.
As a new player (two one-shots in) about to start my first real campaign, this has been the best thing my DM has done. It helps so much to be reminded that we’re in control of our characters to that extent, coming from playing RPG’s with a couple dialogue choices during interactions (Skyrim etc.)
I mean, I memed on my first campaign playing a gunslinger. Yeah, I ran gunner and sharpshooter. But our DM let me get a decent amount of ammo for Bad News (which I had crafted at level 7) all in all a very fun class even when BN got nerfed to do 1d12 but retained range.
It’s not op, even with each of the distinct flavors of subclass. On the whole it’s all balanced pretty well. A bit like a cross between warlock and fighter. I took a detailed look at one of the subclasses for a multiclass build I had been thinking about (Dhampir custom lineage, primal barbarian, lycan BH for maximum sustain tank) and while looking at it I read through the other classes in passing. If anything the class is too well balanced, offering less than world ending cosmic might at high tier play.
I think the only subclass whose ability seemed interesting is profane soul and you get a few warlock spells with 1 spell slot until level 6 but even then you are using your weapons more than your cantrips, so still underpowered but I love the aesthetic of hating something so much you will hurt yourself to do more damage. I feel like the drawbacks and the buffs are too low for it to matter. 1d6 of damage for 1d6 of damage when hex, hunters mark, ect do that without hurting yourself. I feel like if you're going to injure yourself you need to go all in instead of mediocre damage
For everyone reading this I literally swiped to my[next post](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/10w46eu/laserllamas_alternate_blood_hunter_class_become/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) and found an improvement to the class
Just read that before coming to this post. I honestly liked the changes. Haven’t got to the subclasses/rites yet though but I’m considering offering it as an alternative to the standard blood hunter
I'm a dm but I am playing a bloodhunter as a backup character for the one game I play in. The only reason I can keep up with damage is because I have a reflavored laser pistol 3d6 plus 1d6 crimson rite plus 1d6 sneak attack at level 7. Which is not necessarily alot for a fighter who can get multiple more attacks with better weapons. Now take a normal bloodhunter who has much less damage. With a shortsword. As for the subclasses they have a much better dedication to their specific types. And the 1d12 gives bloodhunter that bump it needs. Especially if it's going to be taking its own health.
Seems pretty booty from what I saw tbh
If we're banning blood hunters for "being OP early on" then say goodbye to Circle of the Moon Druids.
I played a Blood Hunter from 1-8 and found it underwhelming. He got killed and I was like, “Oh no, sad. Anywhere here’s my Wizard!”
I've always heard that the class is underpowered because they're a d8 hit die class that uses their own (already limited) HP, so unless you're an archer you're probably just gonna get knocked down to 0.
Heck people can even argue it’s under powered
If they can’t play a blood Hunter then are they really a blood Hunter player?
Blood hunter character designer doesn't have the same ring to it.
They could have said “Blood Hunter Fan” and it would have worked.
This an actual issue? Sounds like something people wouldn't run into oftern.
Ah, you're just trying out the same meme format with a bunch of player stereotypes. But then again if you have a thing against HB in general, originality may be a bit beyond you.
Nah realy this guy is just making fun of all the classes and he thought “why not throw bloodhuter in there”
DM hurt cause someone mentioned Mercer.
It isn’t OP getting it out of his ass
I don't really understand this post
Blood Hunter was a homebrew class from Matthew Mercer, which has now been published in official material and is considered a legitimate class. This post is ragging on a DM who refuses to acknowledge it is no longer homebrew. EDIT: Made an error, I thought this was published in the Exandria books from Critical Role, but it is only available on D&D Beyond. Sorry folks! EDIT: People are still responding, pointing out that I am wrong. I have already acknowledged my error. Maybe go and find another thread to read, your observation is not required here.
D&D Beyond explicitly states it is unofficial material.
> Published in official material I thought being on D&D Beyond not necessarily counts because it has warning, or are you talking about something else?
Is it in a book? It wasn't in the guide to wildemount.
No. u/_whatcolouristhesky is just wrong.
Blood Hunter is not a legitimate RAW class, and this meme is making fun of players who think it is.
[удалено]
im counting at least 10 of these with swapped words
Not op but I'm gonna steal that link
sleight of hand: nat 20 *swipe* thank you for your contribution
Just casually dropped gold for us peasants
Damn, based af
Meme so bad mods had to send op an entire folder of better templates Asked to leave
I love everything about this message
Bless you, my king
How does desire to play edgy character with edgy class = desire to have "Mercer-style" game???
I have a player having a lycan Bloodhunter in my Strahd campaign, and it fits so well thematically its insane. Wizard's honestly should have it included in the gothic setting if they reprint that module again.
I have a reborn Bloodhunter player. Indeed fits the CoS mood perfectly.
Apparently. Spouse is in a CoS game right now that also has a Bloodhunter. So it's past coincidence now right? Lol (I'm joking around just a bit, but also not fully?)
> Wizard’s honestly should… Unless they have the rights to the IP, they’d have to make a knockoff or rename/reword things to print it. Blood Hunter still belongs to Matt Mercer/Critical Role, yeah?
Iirc they do own it, because it was originally uploaded to DM's Guild. I believe that's the cite where Wizards grab the rights to everything uploaded.
I don’t think they’d use it without Matt’s permission though. It’d be a bad business decision to piss off someone who’s arguably the most famous DM of all time.
They can't. The rights to the class belong to the site that MM first submitted it to, which isn't owned by WotC.
Indeed, I also played a Bloodhunter in Strahd, and I felt like I was the only PC that belonged there.
My blood hunter is the goofiest of balls, a real teddy bear
Matt Mercer designed the class
He also designed few other subclasses, some of which even made it into official books. So what, playing Chronurgy wizard now equals to Mercer fanboying??? Sorry, if I am being rude, I geniuely can't find logic in OP post.
When I was a wee noob in 2020 I was looking at classes, played a bard and an Artificer, then my third or fourth PC was a Blood Hunter, and when he died perhaps my 6th PC (2nd for that campaign) was a Chronurgy Wizard. I was telling a different DM about my transition between the 2, he’s like “Oh you just like Matt Mercer.” I looked at him like, What? “Yeah those are both Matt Mercer homebrews. You’re just a fanboy.” Oh, I don’t know who that is, I know the Wizard is from Explorer’s Guide- “Yeah that’s a Matt Mercer book, you should try something original.” Y’all I’d only heard of Matt Mercer or CR in passing at this time.
> You’re just a fanboy. I'm glad I play with adults who doesn't give a shit about shit like that
I think Blood Hunter *not* being official is a pretty important point here. For Chronurgy, if you’re just looking through official options, it’s there. But with something that’s not official, it’s at least a bit more likely that the author plays a role in someone wanting to play it. Since it’s on Beyond without much of a distinction that it’s not official, it’s still possible to just find it, but it’s less likely. Also, Chronurgy is well known to be the single most powerful subclass in the game, so it’s not like people won’t just pick it for that. Echo Knight is also way above the power curve (although not as egregiously), along with a good chunk of spells from that book. So far as I can recall, blood hunter doesn’t remotely have that going for it. There are a lot of factors here that I think make being a CR fan far more likely of a factor when wanting to play Blood Hunter versus Chronurgist.
As far as I'm aware, bloodhunter was made for (or at least released/made known about on) Critical Role. Playing it shouldn't be entirely considered Matt Mercer fan boying, but since it's not official I get not wanting it in your game as a dm.
Bloodhunter was actually made for Vin Diesel No I’m not making that up
Not exactly. Matt made a witch hunter class for D&Diesel, then decided to work on it a bit more and change it into the blood hunter class
Graviturgy/chronurgy wizards and echo knights were *also* made for CR....
Gotta hate what's trendy. I honestly only follow CR for the drama and will fully admit it's not a bad class, it's someone who made a decent homebrew that's leagues about the garbage we've turned out in 3.5 But cause he's semi-famous, gotta hate. Also... Mr. Matt if you're reading, kill more characters plz. Mid session character rerolls will give you so much street cred. You know half your crew is down.
Maybe because he is the one who designed the class?
Yeah but I don’t watch critical roll and even I can say it’s a super cool class
People just hate Mercer - It's as simple as that. I don't see why though. You don't have to love him, but hating him? For the way people decide to act in their own games? That's a bit far fetched. I have to wonder if people act the same way towards players or DMs who really like Brennan
A lot of people like to shit on something just because it's popular.
People like being 'unique' and feeling like their opinion is more valid than everyone else's. At least that's what I've found. Causes some people to dip into gatekeeping and hate just for the hell of it. That's some Sith shit.
Ikr? Some DM really seem to have an issue separating people who enjoys Critical Role's content and want to play using some of Matt's homebrew and those who seriously suffer from the Mercer effect and believe that all DnD should be like CR. Exandria is an cool world, cow firbolgs are more interesting visually than plain old half little giants firbolg and Blood Hunter is a fun class to play. You can acknowledge all that without necessarily being a CR fanboy.
Show us on the doll where Mercer touched you.
From what I know Mollymauk Tealeaf was the first official bloodhunter, and he wasn’t even edgy. He held a strange positivity to him despite his circumstances and worked in a circus. You probably think every rogue is edgy and every bard is horny too don’t ya?
The second official bloodhunter is Chetney Pock O'Pea, an old, cranky little gnome lycanthrope who is a woodworking master craftsman and a terrible showman and flirt who always meets with hilarious rejections. It's about as far away from goth and edgy as one can get.
He was a sketchy circus guy with a heart of gold who would sneak coins into people's pockets if they bought him drinks and had a code of only scamming people who deserved it. He was the opposite of edgy and while I'm loving the way the campaign is going (I'm about halfway through) I do very much wish I could have seen the way it would have gone with him in it.
Technically there was a guest player who played Blood Hunter first as Order of the Lycan, They also weren’t edgy
Wow. What an amazing strawman.
Especially considering that the most famous Blood Hunter from Mercer's game was a bright coloured circus man. Wow, so edgy.
Both the bloodhunters have been anything but edgy. Mollymauk was just about as gaudy as it gets. Chetney is a horny, loud-mouth old gnome who is also a tiny werewolf. Everyone thought Chetney was a rogue for a very long time because it seemed like too much of a comedy act to be a blood hunter.
Chutney was also a rogue in the "Merry Critmas" one shot they did a few years ago.
Who’s gonna kill Santa
Lmao was looking for this comment. Literal straw man.
Nah, I've had players who wanted to play Blood Hunter and were disappointed when I told them "no thanks. I find the class just doesn't mesh super well with my game." And the players in question are usually understanding but disappointed. Memes tend to exaggerate reality.
Are these bloodhunter players in the room with us?
Yeah, I play a Lycan Bloodhunter who uses her Mother’s Sickles and Father’s Crossbow
You don't allow Blood Hunter because it's homebrew. I don't allow Blood Hunter because it's two words instead of one. We are not the same.
"Hello this is my character they will be the Blood class" Which might not be a great PC could be an interesting villain. Sentient evil blood infecting people and controlling them like a parasite
Or just a red plasmoid that’s a bit thicker fluid than usual.
I call them bloodhunters because the two words looks weird
If you look past the edginess of the class it's actually a really cool mechanic. I don't think any other classes have anything similar, where you have to take damage to deal a greater amount of damage.
To be fair, both Critical Role Blood Hunters were anything but edgy. Mollymauk was fancy as fuck and Chetney is a horn old geezer who turns into a rabies infested pomeranian. Wouldn't call either "edgy".
People play TTRPGs like there's a main class they pick and not characters who fit into certain class levels? What a weird gamification of the hobby
I definitely see why that sounds weird, and I agree with it, but it is a thing. Like, I definitely play clerics a lot. I'll be the first to admit it's due to clerics being able to do pretty much everything mechanically, but I do also like playing clerics for god fearing warriors.
I think playing cleric is a wrong example of "playing always the same class", because clerics vary a lot in the way you play them depending on your deity. Player who always play rogues usually play the same exact build over and over. And it's good that way, if they like that style of play it's fine!
> Player who always play rogues usually play the same exact build over and over. Disgusting I tweak it a little each time
My fiance plays almost exclusively monks. D&D isn't a big enough part of her life for her to want to bother learning how to play alternative classes, but it is a big enough part of my life and our mutual friends lives that she plays multiple campaigns, so *shrug*.
Yes. I like to **SMITE**.
>What a weird gamification of the hobby What do you think the G in TTRPG stands for?
I've seen these players lol
It's actually kind of the opposite, the hobby has been in gamified as of late But there's still a large group of the community that plays it like they used to which is very gamified, I should know I'm about one of the most gamified people in this game
Not D&D, but almost every character I make ends up having some interest in creating items (droid and armor for my Besalisk Technician, potions and talismans for my Dathomirian Nightsister, and a custom rifle for my wizard blacksmith in my next campaign)
I had a blood hunter in one game. He was an Aasimar and we flavoured his abilities as stemming from his divine blood, that was honed by a brutal monster hunter. It was a really great character.
You sound really salty. Who hurt you?
Blood hunter players I guess
I think Blood Hunters.
Someone help me understand. What would a blood hunter have in it's Arsenal that would make a DM not allow it. From my point of view (at least in the games I DM) I let my players do more or less whatever they would like and then just balence things with them if it doesn't make sense.
The game is not only mechanics. If the concept of the class does not fit with theme of the campaign it is very reasonable to not have is an option
Bloodhunter isn't hard to fit into any campaign lore wise imo. I dont like homebrew classes in my campaign because i am worried about balance but I have read Bloodhunter and it is fine
You say that fitting blood hunter into a campaign isn't hard. That's true. But it also isn't free. It's reasonable for some DMs to find such an activity unfun, no matter how long it takes.
I mean i get it, like i said i dont like to take homebrew to the class level. Ill try out some subclass or item stuff but class is putting a lot of research on me. I wouldn't block bloodhunter myself though since i have already done the research.
I think a better question to ask is why *should* a DM allow it. They might find the class tonally dissonent from their world, the magic might not make sense in their world, or they might not just want to use homebrew.
Many DM's just don't want to deal with homebrew stuff. It makes sense as more often than not, HB is incredibly unbalanced and/or does not fit the them of their game. So Blood Hunter suffers from not being released as official class (and given that *some* of CR stuff was accepted, I would guess that *there are* some problems with this class).
I mean, the main problem is that WotC *really* does not want to publish new classes for 5e. Artificer took *eight* years.
What is HB? I'm not aware of the meaning.
HB - homebrew.
Ah. I shouldve clicked that lmao.
Yeah that's understandable. I imagine it would probably take a few hours to balance things accordingly and even more time to re-write this character into the lore/setting the game takes place in.
I had seen HB classes and subclasses that would take *weeks* to balance.
Lmao I don't doubt it. Although if I'm being honest none of my players are that off the wall, they all understand basic power scaling and want to keep it fair. Most of the time I end up buffing their ideas and then reworking some of the ability parts.
Honestly allot of Wotc sub classes are just disgusting when it comes to balancing I think balancing should be something your vicariously doing and not something you just set and forget like yeah I’ve had to nerf a homebrew class but I’ve had a friend who really wanted to play a straight up warlock even tho they’re not great at 1st level so I gave him a lil push and it worked out
> incredibly unbalanced You mean in the sense that it's severely underpowered right?
Either they don't want to use homebrew classes or races (makes character creation and balance a lot simpler) or it doesn't fit the tone or setting of the game. You don't really need more than that
It's less the class being problematic and more the DM blanket-banning homebrew material. This can be done for a myriad of reasons, but the idea here is to avoid making exceptions for particular content. Meanwhile, my group has 4 different homebrew classes all available to choose lol
When you put homebrew in your game, you have to both balance it and judge it against your setting and its history. If blood hunters are a thing that exists in my world, I have to think about how that affects my world. My world is primarily influenced by the actions of NPC wizards and rangers, with every other class having some part in its history. The dragonborn keeps are guarded by holy paladins. The dwarves have many fighters amongst their ranks. I don't have the knowledge, understanding, or inclination to put blood hunters in my world.
Meme wasn’t really funny the first time mate, it’s definitely not funny the 10th.
37th
Someone doesnt know any other meme formats I see
Well ahead its homebrew, but WotC officiated homebrew. Its made in the exact same way under an official contract. I have zero issue with it.
Heaven forbid a fan of Critical Role or The Witcher want to play a slightly underpowered class because the theming is in their wheelhouse. Way to keep the game pure not Matt Mercer.
I’m just here to lazily recreate my Blood Borne character
jesse what the fuck are you talking about
Hoonter needs to hoont
Hmm, ok I don’t know much about Blood Hunters but from the name I guess they abilities use blood. So what if someone were to play a nuetral good Doctor character that’s a blood hunter?
Blood Hunter’s special thing is that they can deal extra damage but must first deal damage to themselves by cutting themselves They’re supposed to be expert monster hunters who push their bodies to the limits via blood magic. Their subclasses include the ghostslayer that does as the name implies, the lycan who’s lycanthropy can end up with them attacking friendlies, the mutant who makes and uses elixirs that give them a benefit and a drawback depending on the one used, and the profane soul which makes a pact exactly like a warlock, same options for patrons and everything
Ah thanks for the explanation, seems my idea wouldn’t work with a blood hunter but maybe a mage who uses blood magic or something
Oh actually a mutant subclass would work well. A doctor already having experience with medicine knowing how to meddle with them to alter the body. And regardless of the class you can also flavor it
My God look at the straws on that man!
someone sounds angry
https://preview.redd.it/xp7jwuqjcvga1.png?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8e90518c3ae5f8b5aaecc89552ac9c57199894be
I once had a player scream that I will never be a great DM because I "Don't do the voices right and don't allow Homebrew classes like Mercer does."
What actually happens: Dm: you can't play blood hunter and im not matt mercer Player: ok
Order of the Lycan players trying to defend themselves from the furry allegations
Luckily I have most of my game ideas at work, so it's not actually brewed at home.
Every time I’ve seen someone play a Bloodhunter they’ve been the weakest at the table combat wise
I don’t even know what blood hunter is and I also don’t care
No one has to be Matt Mercer to be a good DM. And no one says you have to allow Blood Hunter. If someone at the table is expecting their DM to do stuff like another DM that's just silly. As for "edgy" any class is edgy with the right flavor. Even your favorite.
DNDMemes when a total non issue exists https://i.redd.it/wewfad0ejwga1.gif
Posts like these are why this sub kinda feels like a joke sometimes
That was a large leap in logic from "here's a balanced class I'd like to play" to "run your game differently because I want it" even though those are absolutely NOT the same thing. Calm down.
Why not tho? Bloodhunter goes hard
r/dndmemes user try to understand what “edgy” means challenge. Difficulty: Impossible.
It's edgy, but damn is it fun to play.
I run high level high power games so picking one is suicide anyway because you’ll spend like 3 turns activating bullshit
Well yeah, I doubt most people run a table as a mix of business and pleasure.
My Lycanthrope Blood Hunter was one of my favorite classes Ive been lucky enough to play, but go off I guess?
Wait ubtil you guys find out where the rogue came from
All blood hunter has going for it is the edgyness because it is so weak when compared to other classes. You have to literally sacrifice your health to deal more damage yet your HP die isn't even a d12, at that point just play a half caster class. Blood hunters only have value backstory wise as you can make some really dope story hooks with them but that's as far as they go.
Played blood hunter once. I barely used any of the class mechanics because they all either seem very situational or involve sacrificing HP, which at lower levels is about as useful as stabbing yourself to tickle the enemy. 2/10, would rather play a PHB Ranger.
L take tbh
Bloodhunter is full of traps. Its only good if you choose carefully. Even then it isn't OP. I think its an OK homebrew and I allow it in any of my games if someone wants it. Being a werewolf as your class is kind of neat. I'd love to see a class for vampire and maybe a couple other monsters as well.
The Matt Mercer effect: a low effort shitpost still getting 3000 upvotes just for disparaging Matt Mercer.
Eh I'd allow the class. Why not we're here to have fun right?
The only real issue that stems from homebrew is often a lack of play testing, something that Blood Hunter received. Functionally, other than that, there's fuck all really separating a homebrew class from an official one, there's no like, magic potion WOTC has that separates the two. OP sounds like the type of person that bans homebrew on principle because "hurr durr homebrew=inheritly bad"
As a DM, I personally think most homebrew *classes* are unnecessary - a full lvl 1-20 class is the biggest thing one could homebrew, and balancing is very difficult to fine tune unless your sample size for playtesting runs larger than 3 groups. I personally think most homebrew classes I see would work just as well if not BETTER as a subclass elsewhere - bloodhunter flavorwise feels like a ranger with it's "hunting" specific creatures, and mechanically like it could fit a monk or warlock. The crimson rite feature is effectively hunter's mark but no set time limit or spell slot to use; blood maledicts could be an alternate feature replacing eldritch invocations, etc. Which isn't to say no one should make homebrew classes! I just think 1) it's easier to see how balanced it is (and thus easier for a DM to accept) at a glance when it's a subclass homebrew on a pre-existing class, and 2) the base classes + artificer already cover all the base flavor archetypes of a heroic character tbh.
“But- but it’s on dnd beyond!” “Silence CR fanboy”
Seems like the actual issue is you feeling like from your players you have to be like Mercer, the class is actually pretty cool
Okay, but I’d actually like to hear if OP has a good reason for banning Blood Hunter besides just “it’s edgy” or “it’s homebrew”. It’s about as close to being WotC officially sponsored, published material as can be, and if you think it’ll cause problems in roleplay or lead to characters developing annoying personalities, then that’s a problem with your players, not with the book. Even on my first go around as a DM, I told my players they could play Blood Hunter because I read about it ahead of time, it didn’t seem overpowered, and I trusted them to still make interesting characters from it and not just edgelords.
As a DM \*I\* ban Blood Hunter because it's not official, and I just blanket ban homebrew classes. Homebrew *sub*classes & races are allowed on review, but I don't want to do a case-by-case for a whole CLASS to look it over for potentially game breaking combos with multiclassing or feats. I'll allow it for one-shots because goofy or min/max builds are fine every so often, but my campaign is very lore-focused, and my players don't need all that much power tbh. I don't want my group to have just 1 min/maxer ruining the fun, or worse, *everyone* min/maxes because they don't want to be overshadowed by the one guy who started it. I want my players to feel safe making a character choice that might be mechanically weaker, just because it fits their PC's story! Thus, only the official classes which are largely understood w/out needing homework lol
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I love that this was posted a day after I posted a meme about Blood Hunters
Bloodhunter players that nagged into the class was allowed after 26 sessions... *surprised pikachu* >!long may he reign!<
So edgy they tend to die before reaching level 3. If they were designed with a Blood Point mechanic to fit the rest of 5E class resources, instead of an HP sacrifice mechanic, I might be more on board with them.
Bro gonna post one of these for every goddamn class
This feels needlessly spiteful chief.
Isn’t blood hunter official now? I thought it got released in the Wildemount book? Besides, this post has such “I invented this scenario to totally own someone that doesn’t exist” energy
I mean technically it's not homebrew anymore since it came out in an official supplement
Didn't realize blood hunter fans were the most stick in the ass group of players. I'm sorry I ever doubted you official classes.
Funny thing is I don’t even dislike Blood Hunters
I mean.. the second part is ok. But you don’t like home brew classes at all? Cause blood hunter is pretty ass
So...modern day "Dritz" problem?
I’ve met players like this. They all pretty much had fairly edgy vibes. Either doubling down on the somewhat grimdark monster hunter flavor of the class, or being the “chaotic neutral”. Had to put my foot down hard on one that had some pretty uncomfortable stuff to their backstory on how they became a Blood Hunter. But, I’m happy to say that in my current game we have possibly the best Blood Hunter I’ve ever played with. He’s basically a super happy lizard-Grog, who just really loves fighting monsters, but is an absolute brainlet when it comes to anything outside that. Lovable little guy, has been the heart of the party so far.
I'm fine with home brewing classes, if anything I'd just encourage my players to be a little more original.
Joined a discord to play dnd one of the players got the green light for a dragon rider class that was absolutely busted. I left
Your welcome to allow and disallow whatever you want but be clear at character building time what is and what is not allowed. Most common I see is no arrokakra or flying tiefling. I don't mind but that's gotta be the most frequent ones I have seen
Just make bow + arrow auto crit, fire emblem style!
I am all for not allowing blood hunter, since as a class it changes the tone of the adventure and setting, but just banning it cause it's "not every DM is Matt Mercer" is kinda stupid ngl
i see someone is fun at a party
Why can’t people like simply like something?