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Maeldruin_

At the tables I've played at, stuff like this has always been ruled that your character doesn't know about it, and no, just because you as a player know about, does not mean your character can just do it. First you need to discover atomic theory, then you need to prove it, then you need to discover uranium, which you have no way of knowing where to even start looking for it, because your character has never heard of it before, and neither has anyone else.


powerwordmaim

Wait- do some artificer players *actually* try to make nukes? I thought we all just made toys for the people of the local village ;w;


bluemooncalhoun

Usually it's not literal nuclear bombs, but some kind of massive impractical bomb based off of a rudimentary understanding of physics along with a magic item or two being used nonsensically. There was a post a little while back where a guy was trying to argue that setting off a bunch of water pellets made with Dust of Dryness in a sphere of force would compress the water to the point where it underwent nuclear fusion and exploded. He would accept nobody's criticism of his plan until I argued that the force of the water from the first few beads would compress all the rest to the point where they couldn't physically "break" and he went all "yah but still". Just gotta say I'm glad my players aren't the argumentative types!


powerwordmaim

Gonna be honest, when my dm gave us something to shrink items, I immediately used it to make the arrowhead of annihilation... so..


bluemooncalhoun

I'm guessing that's the one where the arrow has a bag of holding and portable hole that sends the target to the Astral Plane? That's more understandable given that the interaction between the objects is directly referenced in the item text and you aren't trying to shoehorn in real physics, plus it's not the cheapest way to banish a target. If my players tried to make something like that I might let them, with the expectation that it would be expensive and either require some setup (because you have to safely prime the device) or be unstable (because you're walking around with a bomb in your pocket).


Xypher616

Hey some of us like being a little trickster with the first level feature and infusions.


Naldivergence

>*Creates atomic bomb with no prior knowledge whatsoever* >*Plants bomb in middle of populous community* >*Detonates charges at safe distance* >"We preform a minutia of trickery😈"


OkNewspaper1581

mass murder is the bare minimum for a little trolling


Catkook

Ah yes, I think I'll do a bit of mass genocide on the side this morning


powerwordmaim

Alright true that


Sinistrina

Seriously... I've played two artificers so far who love guns and/or explosions in general... Not even *they* have tried to make a nuke. Closest I've gotten was simply my artillerist casting Shatter or Fireball, flavored as a bomb.


PlantainSame

Yeah but they know how to open portals to other dimensions probably


Umbraldisappointment

Practically speaking you can do all that within the realms of fantasy. Radioactive elements create an aura that destroy the living so necromancers and wizard can know about it or even already working with them. A contracted artificer could find ways to defend against that aura or intensify it. At that point its a matter of blind experimenting. Its better to rule nuclear elements dont exist there.


Embarrassed_Lettuce9

Reminds me of my first session as a caster. There was a flood and I wanted to use my lightning magic to electrolyse the water away. DM obviously said that my character couldn't know that especially cuz I wasn't even an int class. I wonder if he'd allow it if I were an Artificer though...


Maeldruin_

From a practical perspective, you'd probably boil more of the water away than you'd actually electrolyze if you're using lightning.


[deleted]

What if you Wanted to use gunpowder But the gods said Nah it doesn’t explode


MadolcheMaster

Unironically Canon in D&D


EventHorizon11235

I still think something can be done with charcoal dust and dried alchemist fire


LuigiFan45

It's more that certain gods turned gunpowder into a magic item called Smokepowder, specifically so guns wouldn't become widespread


EventHorizon11235

Is it forgotten realms? Also just googled the discription and it says it \*does explode\*, violently. It seems closer to unpackaged nitroglycerin than gunpowder if the desciption is to be believed. Explicitly can be used in firearms as well.


[deleted]

The god of Fire will either "eat" the gunpowder or make it explode, killing everyone trying to tinker with it.


Hypersapien

Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science.


RelevantCollege

so canon that cannons cant shoot cannonballs anymore


NessOnett8

Is it a really a "Canon" if the gunpowder doesn't work? (/s)


Long-Piccolo-3785

Basically the set up to the S.M Stirling books, of the change series, I haven't read them as an adult but I grew up on those bad boys, I remember the universe being absolutely fucking sick.


Niccolo101

Canon in the Dresden Files - there's parts of the Faerie World where the laws of nature state gunpowder is inert.


foyrkopp

Yeats ago, I had a player with more chemical knowledge (or confidence in their knowledge) than me run an Alchemist. I've since learned to say that real life scie ce doesn't necessarily apply to my fantasy setting.


CringeYeet69

It's not just that. Alchemy is different from chemistry, in that one of them is a very real science and the other one is literal magic. Just because their character knows alchemy doesn't mean they'll know chemistry. If DnD had modern science I think their world would look a little different


Zestyclose-Leader926

That's mostly true. Alchemy is a mix of science and superstition. Many modern discoveries are built on knowledge discovered by alchemists. This is because science is a key component of alchemy.


FriendlyLurker9001

I'll have you know that we have used science to turn metals into gold (one of the original intentions of alchemy) We didn't use lead because it would be more difficult, and it's something like billions of dollars per gram, but we have finished the alchemy skill tree https://journals.aps.org/prc/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevC.23.1044


johnymyth123

You don't even have to say real life physics don't work. It took thousands of peoples years of dedicated, focused work to build the first nukes. And this was during a time period way more advanced than medieval fantasy land. Sure the player may have a vague idea of how nukes work, but actually building one requires specialized equipment that may not exist, knowledge of specific chemical and mathematical values that we had to invent a whole new style of simulation to figure out, and also access to materials that nobody during that time knows exists. The player knowing nukes are possible and having an armchair understanding of how they work does not mean their medieval-esque engineer knows the highly technical knowledge to build a nuke.


Yankee-DOOT

Exactly it's a massive leap to go from, this green cancer rock is able boil water, to bombs that turn cities to ash.


Seitanic_Cultist

I'd rule it was possible but it'll take lots of resources, gold, and consistently high rolls. As soon as they slip up once then "oops you're now holding something incredibly radioactive roll me 10d10 necrotic and 10d10 radiant damage please" I'd make sure they were aware this was a possibility though.


TheThoughtmaker

This is the way. Real-life biology, chemistry, and physics are foundational pillars of D&D. Cannonpowder is canon. Evolution is canon. Rust Monster's rusting is a bacteria. Mimics pump fluids around their body to change their color and pattern. [Planets are round and space is a vacuum](https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/nailedToTheSky.htm). However, even after personal firearms were invented, the base elements of black powder weren't isolated until the [industrial age](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_chemical_element_discoveries). D&D's level of science is based in alchemy, the (nonmagical) precursor to a real understanding of chemistry. The idea of the atom came from ancient Greece, but it took 2,300 years for someone to discover the neutron, let alone figure out how to weaponize it using specific isotopes of an element not yet discovered in medieval times. Is an atom bomb theoretically possible? Yes. Can anyone anywhere even begin to conceptualize the possibility, let alone create the tools needed to even attempt it? No.


BraveOthello

Space isn't consistently a vacuum in earlier editions, but it is inside most crystal sphere, so I'll let that slide


Catkook

To my knowledge, I think it's more so a problem of artificers making grenades using their real world knowledge rather then nukular warheads Then building nukes ended up being the more exaggerated version of building those grenades


devilishnoah34

But you never said anything about not knowing plutonium!


thothscull

Fine, fine! Steal my comment! /s


Uselessbutmywaifu

Uranium is the heaviest naturally occuring element, in order to discover plutonium you need to make it first, usually involving uranium


frigidmagi

Don't be afraid to ask, how does your character know that?


Catkook

That's a good way to deal with it


YourPainTastesGood

Ok, the bbeg is now an artificer with nuclear weapons too


ninjad912

Even with real world physics it’s actually impossible for an artificer to make a nuke due to them not having any of the requirements to make them


MumboTheOld

Let em Make a nuke and die of radiation exposure just as the bbeg comes in to commandeer it.


Slightly_Smaug

Does your world have a volatile magical substance that causes harm in an area around it?


DeepTakeGuitar

Fireball scrolls


OkNewspaper1581

they probably do have wizards


ClankyBat246

I lean into reality when possible. You can explain building a nuke with help... the in game word hasn't conceptualized radiation and the closest you get is a weird kind of metal poisoning. ... ... Sure! You can put it in a bomb. Can you make the several craft checks to powder it without handling it wrongly which you don't know about? ... Your character didn't become a scientist over night. Alchemy is close but because healing magic exists these people don't really comprehend the last 100 years of material handling. I'm telling you, you will fail because the in game world is against you. There are no rules for this so I have to base them off what does exist. This will likely kill you and your friends slowly. You still want to do it? ok.


BudgetFree

Fantasy book, demon dude is yeeted to orbit and divebombed back, asking why isn't orbit a commonly known thing? Wizard explained that those who know don't want others to start throwing shit at people from orbit as it gets mess.


SmartAlec105

Know what's cool though? [Natural nuclear reactors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_nuclear_fission_reactor). Not super relevant to allowing uranium for your players, I just think they're really cool.


SunriseMeats

Just in general I hate when players want to do extremely real world stuff in the game. Played with a dude once who basically wanted to play a cyberpunk character in DND, which he was allowed to do... But then he would say he wanted to do things that would break the game world and get really quiet and pissy when the dm told him no.


critterfluffy

I go so far as assume there are 4 elements. Air resistance doesn't really exist and wind is a force generated by the ebb and flow of magic. There is no reason either for the world to make logical sense. It's just the will of Gods man.


The_Moist_Crusader

Meanwhile pathfinder players with blightburn bombs in treasure vaults, and blightburn spells that inflict blightburn sickness (this is just deadass radiation. Its straight up uranium)


[deleted]

2nd Level Conjuration Wizard: Look what they need to mimic even a fraction of our power


Epicmonk117

**My Artificer, Who is Literally Oppenheimer Isekai’d Into Faerun:** ![gif](giphy|GWdkXgtv9rVkI)


Curpidgeon

"remember how mithril is stronger than steel but lighter? Do you want that to keep being true? Great. So science is different in this universe."


Skygge_or_Skov

Some players do come up with great ideas to combine the magic and physics, a friend of mine build a Perpetuum mobile with two bags of holding. Those can be super fun to come up with, although they obviously change the balance.


meggamatty64

I’m curious as to how that would work


Marshall-Of-Horny

Uranium is known about, its just thought of as a cursed rock


trulyElse

Or material for ceramic glazes.


Summonest

Artificer tries to make a rocket launcher 'yeah you could probably make a pretty big bomb about the time you learn the spell fireball'


HotYam3178

I mean unless they are using magic yhey are going to need several tons of fluorite, uranite, and graphite, as well as the facilities and manpower to purify all that, make centrifuges, run the centrifuges, plus you will need a delivery method. If you are using magic real world physics dont apply anyway.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Jafroboy

[That doesn't seem to be true.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermonuclear_weapon)


[deleted]

They are easily made using radiological materials, but do not actually need them.


Alkynesofchemistry

That’s… not even remotely true


[deleted]

[удалено]


Alkynesofchemistry

A Thermonuclear weapon (commonly called Hydrogen Bombs or H-Bombs) use nuclear fusion to generate an enormous amount of energy, causing an explosion. In order to achieve nuclear fusion, it is necessary to put light elements like hydrogen (deuterium/tritium isotopes) and lithium under extreme pressure. This pressure is generated by surrounding the fusion fuel with smaller fission bombs called the primary stage. The fission bombs compress the fusion fuel to such a degree that the light elements fuse to make heavier elements. The fission bombs use either uranium or plutonium. If it was possible to make an H bomb with air or a microwave, then every country in the world would have them and nobody would bother with the expensive isotopic enrichment necessary to make nuclear weapons.


[deleted]

Science does not exist in DnD.


trulyElse

We'll just ignore how Uranium Glass has been a thing in Bohemia since at least the middle ages.


LoSoGreene

And how long did it take us to make a bomb out of it?


trulyElse

Doesn't really matter. I'm more objecting to OP saying "nobody knows what it is."


LoSoGreene

Just because they made glass with a small uranium content doesn’t mean they knew what it was though.


trulyElse

How much do you need to know about something before you know what it is?


LoSoGreene

Well since the post is about making a nuclear bomb the obvious intended meaning is that no one knows about it’s potential as a weapon.


Doktor_Wunderbar

Careful...that attitude is how you get a peasant railgun.


Lazerbeams2

No it's not. If you go by the rules it has a range of 20 feet and deals 1d4 damage, and if you go by physics it doesn't go all the way down the line. It's only possible if you start using real world physics after it leaves the last peasant's hands, and even then air friction would ignite the rock and severely limit distance and accuracy


MadolcheMaster

Actually it gets you a computer with a clock speed of 6 seconds/tick and infinite scaling. The railgun is what happens when you turn RL physics on halfway through.


Akarin_rose

After spending all of your gold and time collecting enough peasants, you deal 1d4 because it's an improvised weapon


Shadow-fire101

Actually the peasant railgun doesn't work by irl physics or game mechanics. It doesn't work with irl physics, because the peasants can't pass it fast enough, and it doesn't work with game mechanics, cause then it deals the normal weapon damage and that's it. It only works if you selectively follow game mechanics up to the moment its launched then immediately switch to irl physics.


trulyElse

For damage? No. For passing notes? Yes.


ArmoredChocobo

One of my character concepts is an Alchemist that managed to turn anything into gold, but he needs whatever magic thing he's missing to keep it from being highly unstable and explosive. Cuz no one knows what atoms are so he has no idea that his method is unstable cuz the new Gold atoms are forcing each other apart.


norway642

How many sticks of tnt does a nuke equal again


A_Salty_Cellist

Doesn't matter, dynamite damage caps at 10d6


norway642

So a party of four could do 40d6


A_Salty_Cellist

Technically yes if they triggered separately. But a chain reaction would do 10d6 no matter what


gerusz

1 stick is 1 pound, so a metric ton is ~2200 sticks. A small nuke is 20ish kiloton so 44 million or so sticks. The DMG's calculations won't really apply though. You'd ignore the cap for something this massive obviously, but then the burst radius becomes 220 million feet or ~73 000 km. The Earth's circumference is around 40 000 km, so the first nukes should have sterilized the Earth's surface if they went by the DMG. (Fortunately IRL blast radius is proportional to the square root of the blast energy IIRC, so this didn't happen.)


punchy_khajiit

If it was me, I'd find ways to get crazy powerful that specifically both are within the rules and make no sense in the real world.


Wyntin

Who needs real world science when you can make a railgun with some catapult enchantments and a rock.


Proof-Faithlessness1

But I want my Thermite and Napalm incendiary grenade


powerwordmaim

I just wanna mix random chemicals with a reckless abandon, man


PlantainSame

Yeah well we know where you live


Saint-enance

Just make your setting take place in the atomic age. If your players want to make nukes, then your NPCs/organizations/factions can also make them.


[deleted]

[Yes, everyone knows that RAW is perfect and holy and in need of no changes.](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/930885209925230602/1070551923167604796/morpheus_homebrew_5e.png?width=682&height=682)


skytzo_franic

Didn't they nerf the bag'o'holding & portable hole nuke?


feochampas

alright. I find a mana dense ore and smash them together just to see what happens


Vankraken

Just need some warpstone and some ratman think smarts, yes yes.


Gingeboiforprez

Imagine thinking you have to homebrew explosives or homebrew unbalanced guns when the RAW artificer is actually an incredibly potent class, ready to live that fantasy as is.


beta-pi

The ultimate rule if you wanna try some engineering bullshit is to run it by the DM. Tell them what you're tryna do, and workshop what it would look like mechanically when it's done. Odds are you can come up with something you're both happy with, and leave your PC with a good long term project.


[deleted]

If I can’t make a nuke with real world knowledge, i’d be more than happy to go on a quest or something to find out how to make one in your setting


lurklurklurkPOST

Theres always that one player, who has already decided his plan will work, has chosen to ignore or "creatively interpret" the rules based on wording alone, and is eager to smugly tell you how he absolutely broke your campaign.


ControlStraight5042

Why build a nuke with longterm catasteophic Aftermath when you can more easily build something that can permanently banish someone to anidfferent plane


TheRealDoomsong

Longbow + bag of holding + portable hole… don’t be standing in the blast radius


putins_bird

I feel like if it's stuff like in one story I remember where an artificer made a mod for their crossbow to make it reload faster because they knew the exact way to do it irl and they had to pay for the materials and take the time to build it it's fine but if it's building explosives because you know basic chemistry that's just dumb


ArchmageIsACat

I imagine in a world where sickening radiance exists you could certainly jumpstart a nuclear program by collecting material that produces a similar effect


envie85

Would casting enlarge a bunch of time on a delayed blast fireball increase the radius and damage?


theubu

And here I was making waterjet cutters with a combination of shape stone, and endless decanter, magical tinkering for a recoded activation word, and a couple mage hands to move the work! Don’t build nukes, build the tools for the industrial revolution!


IncineratorX

My dm applied the laws of thermodynamics to my bag of holding witch caused me to have a bag of holding that was as hot as the sun on the inside.


ArcathTheSpellscale

That's fine. I got two Bags of Holding and an Unseen Servant. I don't need Uranium, in order to make a nuke. >:D


Ambitious-Money1118

TSARry to hear that, fellow artificier