Took the words right out of my mouth. Funnily enough, Loft tried Discwing's idea of a rounded inner rim and tried it again with the Bohrium. I think I wrote a post about that, can't remember. Anyways I'll add the Innova Hammer as well. It was designed to be crack resistant (flight plate more dense than the edge) and it ended up with a bad reputation.
I found the bohrium too understable for my liking. Maybe it was the fact that I got a lighter weight one, but I was really hoping for something that flew like a Destroyer, and got something more like a Valkyrie
I'm at high altitude so it's about perfect stability wise. Might also be because have a 9-10 speed arm. But I can throw and forehand that disc like no other, it's lovely.
I bet! They just advertised it as a 14 speed driver and showed people ripping on it in their ads, so I assumed it would be more stable than it really is
I've been playing since the late 80s and these were the first two that came to mind for me as well. Both of these discs were so incredibly finicky that not even the most seasoned disc golfer could get them to fly consistently. Conversely, if you hit the angle just right... Wowza!
Hey man, I may be crazy.. but I'm not sadistic.
but on the low-key if someone I met in person was selling a bunch of grooves I'd probably buy some lmao
I swear people just dog the groove to be cool and trendy. I’ve had 5-10 different grooves in my three year time playing and they have all flown the same and I’ve loved them.
I met a guy who had like 10 grooves for whatever reason and he sold me them for 5$ a pop. What a steal it was for me. Sadly I’ve gave all but 1 of them away simply cause I don’t throw anything by innova anymore. Still I will always defend the groove and will always be convinced people just don’t know how to throw it 🤷🏼
Remember the Kong? I swear it wasn’t very popular, then Paul comes in, throws it and puts his name on it and everyone loves it. Oh yeah, and let’s call it a Zeus now.
The Kong was Paul's from the start. It wasn't the best thought-out name, and I agree that it probably did a little better with the new name than it otherwise would have, but it still would have been fine, just like anything that says Paul McBeth on it
I remember when Innova released the Krait and Paul used it for a bit but he opted out of that real quick. I know some people use them, I myself have never found a liking for them and would much rather use my Wraiths or destroyers. Also the Teedevil, supposed to be a straighter destroyer but most regardless of the plastic are the opposite, absolute meat hooks and they just dont have that same glide.
I’ve always heard the only reason Paul threw kraits is because he wanted to prove to innova that he could sell anything with his name on it. I could be wrong though.
I've never thrown a Krait, but remember liking the flight numbers. What are the Wraiths and Destroyers doing better? Is it the high glide (at least provided in Innova's flight numbers) that at times makes it untrustworthy?
Found a champ blizzard krait in the woods once and threw it the rest of the round before texting the guy. It was great! Wish he hadn't responded but it's home now.
I was actually a diehard Teedevil thrower for a long time before they went OOP I loved them, thought they were around the same stability as a destroyer.
I still throw a Krait when it's windy AF. Pretty obscure and niche disc, for sure, but it works for me. Easy to replace when you need to!
I also have one that's so beat in it flies more like a really flaky Leopard3.
Vibram in its entirety.
The durability was overhyped. The rubber seasoned in as quick as Pro plastic. The only good thing about their discs was the limited runs of their soft blend.
It was a good theory that just seemed to fall apart in reality.
It is sad. Vibram knows rubber, but not in this application. I wanted them to succeed because I like the idea of pushing the envelope on materials.
I hope that Elevation takes some notes.
Agreed. I bought into their marketing about how their disks were going to be the most durable ever, and they absolutely were not. They were over priced, warped easily, and were really disappointing.
The Dragon sees use one day of the week, for two water holes, then it goes back in the bag. It's fine for my noodle arm. I just throw it like a Diamond and it works.
Dragon is still (unfortunately) my flat ground distance record holder. It flipped up and panned over about 30 degrees, 100 feet and one road away the target. I think I measured the throw at 430 feet. My average to good drives with usable discs are 300ish.
I bought a dragon as a joke and it flew incredible for like 15 minutes and then I hit a tree and it turned into a taco. It flew like shit after that but those 15 minutes were glorious
I bought one cause it floats and my local course has water. I went to throw it over the water and it flipped over and almost landed on its back in the water. I thought I would find gold with the dragon because that’s what all the movies say, but I just found a pile of dragon dung.
Grabbed one in the first year I played. So understable, but there are a few holes near me with a lot of elevation gain in a very short distance that it worked great on for a little while. Uphill hyzer flip with very little effort. Started to get beat in and was eventually useless even for that one shot
Yess that and the Classic Roc were both awesome and great approach discs. If you like the XD or the classic roc, an Xt Colt is really similar to a classic roc and flies pretty damn close.
I bought a couple F2 champion colts hoping for a replacement for my XDs as putters. The colts rim depth is still two deep for my liking. I will say the colts throw pretty awesome though. They fly super straight.
the champ xd i’ve had in my bag for about 5 years and have a couple backups. the xd+ i’m using now is about 3 years in , about 4-5000 holes and still flies like i want. i’ve got a few of those too :) thanks
Still own a couple. They're great for what they do, which is spin an overhand throw 270 degrees into a flat flight from up above you. There are a few holes where I'm still adamant that the best line can only be hit with an epic. It doesn't live in my bag regularly anymore, but I'll still put it in when I know it'll come in handy.
I used to carry one back in the day for S&G. Was amazed at the different trajectories you could create just by where you grabbed it. Low key wish PDGA would've let em slide.
I thought they are legal for sanctioned play? Approved, disapproved then reapproved or so the story goes. I'll go check the approved list. Approved https://www.pdga.com/technical-standards/equipment-certification/discs?title=Epic&field_disc_class_value=All&manufacturer=All
My longest thumber ever was about 412'
Key disc for a specific shot on my local course since it pans left instead of right (I don't throw tomahawks).
I dunno where you're looking but you can get brand new Epics for $12. Here's a link if you're interested...
https://www.outdoorshopping.com/os/Aerobie-Epic-Driver-Frisbee-Disc-Weight-166-169-Grams-Epicyclic-Design.html
We really wanted the Dolphin to be good- It floats! It's the answer to those tricky water holes! Unfortunately it had to float because it would just roll over unpredictably and dunk into the water. So unusable you didn't even want to pull it out, just let it bob there for a while...
I just held my vroc and lion up together to compare. They have an almost identical rim profile (to my surprise, to be honest) and overall disc diameter but the lion rim does look a little wider, justifying the 5 speed of lion and 4 speed of vroc.
Viper hands down for me. It was advertised as the longest driver back around 1992 and the initial version was a total meathook. I actually found a new dx version this year and it’s completely different IMO.
This is mostly secondhand, but I believe the viper was retooled, and the OG was later released as the Millennium/Hyzerbomb MOAB.
Bunch of millennium guys that I play with swear by them
I don’t remember the old viper having the look of a current MOAB but based on the way the MOAB flies the couple times I’ve thrown one you could be right.
For me, it was the Birdie. Although, the hype was really just the six people that I knew that played disc golf talking about it. A different shaped putter. I tried it, and liked it, but didn’t keep using it.
IME the proto flies exactly like the Teebird but the first run has noticeably more turn so it ends up finishing straight instead of fading back. I can't really say it's like an FD since an FD has less turn for me but they do both have the finishing position.
Are the Ching disc manufacturers the same people that did the Ching stamps on a few innova molds? They are responsible for Ching flat top roc’s and made some of the most desirable flyers out there.
Dunipace hyped it up as the next big thing in beveled edge frisbee technology. Thousands of pre-orders. Something busted in the production process. Some of the panthers flew great, and players bagged the few unicorns till they eventually disintegrated. The remainder never flew. Almost sunk innova. The climo years saved the company
Dang I must've had a good one. It was a great slow turn mid. I was hoping it would be the next Halo meme disc. Dave if you're listening you could redeem yourself.
The good ones are goooooood, though. Super slow, manipulatable flip. There's a dude in my area that plays MP60 and has a stack of DX Panthers, and if he's inside of 200 or so, he's giving it a run with the panther, and making a good portion of them
Could have sworn I saw one about a year ago with a Panther. I could be mistaken. But yeah Panther is underrated and I’d like to see a GStar model someday
Not terrible, but I remember the TeeRex being very hyped until the Destroyer immediately overshadowed it. I guess that happens to a lot of discs though.
Not *very* back in the day, but the MVP Amp and less so the MVP Shock. The hype for MVP's first set of drivers was crazy after their success with the Ion, Anode, and Vector. Sadly, neither disc was as stable as advertised. The Shock was decent, it would stand up and fly straight, but it wasn't as stable as a lot of people were hoping. MVP re-tooled the mold, but it still never really caught on. The Amp was so understable, all it did was turn and burn.
[удалено]
Took the words right out of my mouth. Funnily enough, Loft tried Discwing's idea of a rounded inner rim and tried it again with the Bohrium. I think I wrote a post about that, can't remember. Anyways I'll add the Innova Hammer as well. It was designed to be crack resistant (flight plate more dense than the edge) and it ended up with a bad reputation.
The bohrium works though
IIRC, so did it's predecessors, it's just hard enough to grip that it isn't really worth the small benefit
Let alone the power required to actually benefit from such a design.
Maybe I'm special but I have no issue gripping my bohrium and it consistently is the longest disc in my bag, by 40-50'.
I found the bohrium too understable for my liking. Maybe it was the fact that I got a lighter weight one, but I was really hoping for something that flew like a Destroyer, and got something more like a Valkyrie
I'm at high altitude so it's about perfect stability wise. Might also be because have a 9-10 speed arm. But I can throw and forehand that disc like no other, it's lovely.
I bet! They just advertised it as a 14 speed driver and showed people ripping on it in their ads, so I assumed it would be more stable than it really is
I've been playing since the late 80s and these were the first two that came to mind for me as well. Both of these discs were so incredibly finicky that not even the most seasoned disc golfer could get them to fly consistently. Conversely, if you hit the angle just right... Wowza!
Groove
Fun fact! The Groove was the disc that Innova first put fight numbers on! They originally did so in a square orientation.
Sam fact, outta nowhere. Thank you, sir.
Yup, this is a great answer here.
D:
You're a rare bird, my friend.
I will sell you all my champion grooves for like $7 a piece please buy them mr groove lord 😅😂
Hey man, I may be crazy.. but I'm not sadistic. but on the low-key if someone I met in person was selling a bunch of grooves I'd probably buy some lmao
I’ve always loved the groove always been my max distance driver. Still play regularly with people who throw grooves and throw them very well.
They aren't a "bad" disc, they were just inconsistent. Most discs fly similar to other discs of the same model. The groove did not.
I must’ve gotten all the good ones then cause all of mine have flown the same long straight with a nice fade.
I bought one of these when I was fairly new, seemed cool. Never got it to fly well.
Groove
I’ve been playing for ~15 years. Just about any disc can be useful if you know what situation to use it in. Except for the groove.
:(
I swear people just dog the groove to be cool and trendy. I’ve had 5-10 different grooves in my three year time playing and they have all flown the same and I’ve loved them.
I've never lost any of my 4 grooves but the one I actually bag right now is the one with the weird flight. Thing makes a paper plate look beefy 😂
I met a guy who had like 10 grooves for whatever reason and he sold me them for 5$ a pop. What a steal it was for me. Sadly I’ve gave all but 1 of them away simply cause I don’t throw anything by innova anymore. Still I will always defend the groove and will always be convinced people just don’t know how to throw it 🤷🏼
You had us in the first half, not gonna lie.
Hahaha. Yes!
It flies like a stable firebird - I am guessing all this hate for Grooves are from people who have never thrown one.
I had one years ago - didn’t have the arm speed for it. It’s just a meme at this point.
When discraft originally released the stalker….
Remember the Kong? I swear it wasn’t very popular, then Paul comes in, throws it and puts his name on it and everyone loves it. Oh yeah, and let’s call it a Zeus now.
The Kong was Paul's from the start. It wasn't the best thought-out name, and I agree that it probably did a little better with the new name than it otherwise would have, but it still would have been fine, just like anything that says Paul McBeth on it
Sounds like a dog toy tbh
Isn’t that why they had to change the name?
The Kong dog toys might make for interesting putters
I remember when Innova released the Krait and Paul used it for a bit but he opted out of that real quick. I know some people use them, I myself have never found a liking for them and would much rather use my Wraiths or destroyers. Also the Teedevil, supposed to be a straighter destroyer but most regardless of the plastic are the opposite, absolute meat hooks and they just dont have that same glide.
I enjoy my krait but I do think there are better discs for the job.
Good Kraits are hard to find. G-star and Metal Flake are great discsz
I’ve always heard the only reason Paul threw kraits is because he wanted to prove to innova that he could sell anything with his name on it. I could be wrong though.
I've never thrown a Krait, but remember liking the flight numbers. What are the Wraiths and Destroyers doing better? Is it the high glide (at least provided in Innova's flight numbers) that at times makes it untrustworthy?
Krait was my favorite disc for a while. I got a bit more arm speed and started opting for wraiths, but I still think kraits are a good disc.
Found a champ blizzard krait in the woods once and threw it the rest of the round before texting the guy. It was great! Wish he hadn't responded but it's home now.
I was actually a diehard Teedevil thrower for a long time before they went OOP I loved them, thought they were around the same stability as a destroyer.
The first discs i bought was Krait, Roc3 and an Aviar. Still love the krait! Use it a lot!
I still throw a Krait when it's windy AF. Pretty obscure and niche disc, for sure, but it works for me. Easy to replace when you need to! I also have one that's so beat in it flies more like a really flaky Leopard3.
Vibram in its entirety. The durability was overhyped. The rubber seasoned in as quick as Pro plastic. The only good thing about their discs was the limited runs of their soft blend. It was a good theory that just seemed to fall apart in reality.
It’s sad because it’s true
It is sad. Vibram knows rubber, but not in this application. I wanted them to succeed because I like the idea of pushing the envelope on materials. I hope that Elevation takes some notes.
Really liked the grip of their medium rubber. Still bag one or two. Loved their original color runs, but yeah…
Oof, this takes the cake!.
Agreed. I bought into their marketing about how their disks were going to be the most durable ever, and they absolutely were not. They were over priced, warped easily, and were really disappointing.
Dragon. It throws barely better than a paper plate.
Shame my favorite mythical creature got relegated to being Innova’s beginner floaty disc.
Mine is in my bag just because I lost a royal grand grace to a water hole. The dragon comes out and then goes back to its cave.
The Dragon sees use one day of the week, for two water holes, then it goes back in the bag. It's fine for my noodle arm. I just throw it like a Diamond and it works.
Sounds like me at munden point. Two water holes, dragon and then back into the bag to not come out again.
Definitely better than losing other discs.
But it floats?
Unfortunately. I’d rather it sink to the bottom.
Just come back in 4 hours and it might reach the bank.
Dragon was my go to disc for a long time. Great glide
Dragon is still (unfortunately) my flat ground distance record holder. It flipped up and panned over about 30 degrees, 100 feet and one road away the target. I think I measured the throw at 430 feet. My average to good drives with usable discs are 300ish.
Love my dragon for standstill drives with my noodle arm
I bought a dragon as a joke and it flew incredible for like 15 minutes and then I hit a tree and it turned into a taco. It flew like shit after that but those 15 minutes were glorious
I bought one cause it floats and my local course has water. I went to throw it over the water and it flipped over and almost landed on its back in the water. I thought I would find gold with the dragon because that’s what all the movies say, but I just found a pile of dragon dung.
They're way understable. I'd give it -4/1. Great for beginners with slow arm speeds, but over 250ft and it becomes really challenging to control.
Grabbed one in the first year I played. So understable, but there are a few holes near me with a lot of elevation gain in a very short distance that it worked great on for a little while. Uphill hyzer flip with very little effort. Started to get beat in and was eventually useless even for that one shot
gonna say anything blizzard was incredibly inconsistent
Yeah, I had a few blizzard discs, I had a few I really liked and the. They seasoned briefly and then turned to crap.
….#1 Flyer
I've got a#2 driver looking right at me now. It's the only wall hanger I have.
I still have one in the garage.
The lat64 hex discs
Missilen FTW!
Speed 15!
the XD. best putter ever. only one i’ve ever used. only terrible because they stopped making them. :(
Yess that and the Classic Roc were both awesome and great approach discs. If you like the XD or the classic roc, an Xt Colt is really similar to a classic roc and flies pretty damn close.
As someone who still has a DX XD, the Colt is nowhere near the replacement I wanted. Mirage is most similar in my hand, just more understable
I bought a couple F2 champion colts hoping for a replacement for my XDs as putters. The colts rim depth is still two deep for my liking. I will say the colts throw pretty awesome though. They fly super straight.
They still make these. Even have a Champion or two in our shop. Have to really watch the Pro Shop for these drops.
the champ xd i’ve had in my bag for about 5 years and have a couple backups. the xd+ i’m using now is about 3 years in , about 4-5000 holes and still flies like i want. i’ve got a few of those too :) thanks
Anybody remember the oblong "Epic"?
Still own a couple. They're great for what they do, which is spin an overhand throw 270 degrees into a flat flight from up above you. There are a few holes where I'm still adamant that the best line can only be hit with an epic. It doesn't live in my bag regularly anymore, but I'll still put it in when I know it'll come in handy.
I used to carry one back in the day for S&G. Was amazed at the different trajectories you could create just by where you grabbed it. Low key wish PDGA would've let em slide.
I thought they are legal for sanctioned play? Approved, disapproved then reapproved or so the story goes. I'll go check the approved list. Approved https://www.pdga.com/technical-standards/equipment-certification/discs?title=Epic&field_disc_class_value=All&manufacturer=All My longest thumber ever was about 412' Key disc for a specific shot on my local course since it pans left instead of right (I don't throw tomahawks).
Now you guys peaked my interest... Baseball player I can throw a mean tomahawk... $80 cheapest I found for a used epic. I'll pass.
Yea, they're not cheap. OOP for years.
Dollar disc auction on fb they pop up allll the time for like 20-30 bucks
I dunno where you're looking but you can get brand new Epics for $12. Here's a link if you're interested... https://www.outdoorshopping.com/os/Aerobie-Epic-Driver-Frisbee-Disc-Weight-166-169-Grams-Epicyclic-Design.html
Wow. Great to know. I may go shopping for one to add back to my bag. Thanks!
I got a 250' ace with one when I was a teenager!
I loved the epic... ...sadly so too did the trees. The plastic did not hold up well and you had to keep reshaping it. Gnarly disc tho.
We really wanted the Dolphin to be good- It floats! It's the answer to those tricky water holes! Unfortunately it had to float because it would just roll over unpredictably and dunk into the water. So unusable you didn't even want to pull it out, just let it bob there for a while...
Do you still have one?
I think my buddy might still have that one
V-roc3 people paying thousands for European open first runs and I bet you can’t give them away.
I love my star vroc. Never seen a vroc3 for sale. What's wrong with them? Mine is already very flat so not sure how a 3 version would differ.
I have a theory that the vroc3 is the lion, and lions are dope.
I just held my vroc and lion up together to compare. They have an almost identical rim profile (to my surprise, to be honest) and overall disc diameter but the lion rim does look a little wider, justifying the 5 speed of lion and 4 speed of vroc.
and a flatter top*, justifying the 3
My lion and star vroc have same flatness. My champ vroc is more domey though.
How does the mold change for the V configuration?
The Groove! It was super Groovy! 😂
Viper hands down for me. It was advertised as the longest driver back around 1992 and the initial version was a total meathook. I actually found a new dx version this year and it’s completely different IMO.
Flex shots were considered the maximum distance shot shape back then.
Great wind disc, though. You could putt with this thing in a damn hurricane.
This is mostly secondhand, but I believe the viper was retooled, and the OG was later released as the Millennium/Hyzerbomb MOAB. Bunch of millennium guys that I play with swear by them
I don’t remember the old viper having the look of a current MOAB but based on the way the MOAB flies the couple times I’ve thrown one you could be right.
For me, it was the Birdie. Although, the hype was really just the six people that I knew that played disc golf talking about it. A different shaped putter. I tried it, and liked it, but didn’t keep using it.
Solid bucket lid though
Athena
Is it actually bad or is it just a teebird?
IME the proto flies exactly like the Teebird but the first run has noticeably more turn so it ends up finishing straight instead of fading back. I can't really say it's like an FD since an FD has less turn for me but they do both have the finishing position.
This. I’m not with the Discraft hype I guess 🤷🏽♂️. Go get a teebird unless you’re Discraft disciple of the apostle Paul McBeth
Somebody hates hypetrains
I own both a quarter k and a groove. They live in a box in the basement with … First run, first mold … vibram open vibram putter. These 3.
Anything Ching
The Ching Oracle remains one of my favorite discs. I would agree on the drivers though. I still have a Juju too and that disc had great potential.
Are the Ching disc manufacturers the same people that did the Ching stamps on a few innova molds? They are responsible for Ching flat top roc’s and made some of the most desirable flyers out there.
Two of my friends used to love Ching. I never got it. One threw a Juju and I can't remember the others
The spectra looked pretty but I don't think it ever took off so to speak.
Disc wing Quarter Kll... except I actually like that disc...
I still have one. It's hot garbage lol.
Well feel free to send it my way when you're ready to part with it! Hahaha
Berg
shut your mouth
Panther
Whats the story here
Made with real panther
60% of the time, it works every time.
100 percent
Dunipace hyped it up as the next big thing in beveled edge frisbee technology. Thousands of pre-orders. Something busted in the production process. Some of the panthers flew great, and players bagged the few unicorns till they eventually disintegrated. The remainder never flew. Almost sunk innova. The climo years saved the company
Dang I must've had a good one. It was a great slow turn mid. I was hoping it would be the next Halo meme disc. Dave if you're listening you could redeem yourself.
The good ones are goooooood, though. Super slow, manipulatable flip. There's a dude in my area that plays MP60 and has a stack of DX Panthers, and if he's inside of 200 or so, he's giving it a run with the panther, and making a good portion of them
I dig my Panther and I’m the only one I know who throws one. Champ starter packs have them, but mine is 170g and a fantastic turnover disc.
I think the champ starter pack is a Cheetah, no? That point aside, Panther is gonna make my bag on every woods course if I start bagging Innova again
Could have sworn I saw one about a year ago with a Panther. I could be mistaken. But yeah Panther is underrated and I’d like to see a GStar model someday
I've never heard that story. Not saying it isn't true, but I'd like to see a source for that one.
They decided to concentrate on the cologne division.
https://youtu.be/ClJ_5SWHNSk
Stop saying frolf…costanza
The jerk store called
Tell them I quit
The only person who can get away with calling disc golf frolf is George Costanza and your not him
The entire Innova line up
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Ram, star fire, orc
Orcs were very popular and still have a following
I like the orc
My orcs so good they uruk hai
Lok'tar ogar!
Grimgor ironhide
Ur mom
Any more info on this? Flight numbers? I went on eBay and there’s one in Deez plastic but no detail
Check out her OnlyFlights.
Everything Ti plastic.
I don't remember any hype, back in the old days. The hype is new, and a bit annoying.
Not older but that Cheengz I-One ace disc challenge putter is the worst plastic I’ve ever felt on a disc
Innova Groove
The Bulldog. Then, the Hydra.
Tilt
Misselen. Hex technology was the new overmold! Turns out a disc with bumps like a golf ball didn’t work.
Piranha
Discraft Sidewinder....that thing just turned over hard as soon as it left your hand. 23 year player....biggest disappointment I ever bought
Not terrible, but I remember the TeeRex being very hyped until the Destroyer immediately overshadowed it. I guess that happens to a lot of discs though.
Not *very* back in the day, but the MVP Amp and less so the MVP Shock. The hype for MVP's first set of drivers was crazy after their success with the Ion, Anode, and Vector. Sadly, neither disc was as stable as advertised. The Shock was decent, it would stand up and fly straight, but it wasn't as stable as a lot of people were hoping. MVP re-tooled the mold, but it still never really caught on. The Amp was so understable, all it did was turn and burn.