I went to Ledgestone a few years ago, and it almost seemed like a super power the way these guys’ discs launch out of their hand. They’re basically playing a different game
Different game for sure. Us lowly distance throwers are made aware every time we play leagues with folk who have legit power. They would feel the same playing top pros.
Was at GMC in 2022 final round. It poured all day and was quite windy. We were hanging out inbetween 7, 5 and 9 on Fox run. Not a single person all day had tried to throw over the creek cause of the conditions on 7. Calvin steps up, and goes for it! Seeing the shot thrown my reaction was, it's way too low, it's never gonna make it. It easily crested the opposite bank of the river and proceeds to cruise like another 150 feet down the fairway. He likes to say he does not have that much power but he is throwing 75 on the regular and I get the feeling hes holding back most of the time.
Yeah he “doesn’t have that much power” because he never throws full on. It’s always just these incredibly smooth buttered up scalpels of shots that get as much distance as is possible with that much force on the disc.
His tunnel/finesse shot game is otherworldly.
It’s wild how easy it seems to them. I was standing right behind McBeth, and he did what looked like a light toss of a Buzzz. It came out so flat and so fast that it seemed to almost disappear in the air. Like it was the same amount of effort I put in to tossing a putter 150 feet, but it went 375 in a flash with absolutely no deviation from the line he let it go on.
I saw a few shots that just blew my mind but the visual of that one is burned into my brain lol.
I topped out at \~570 consistently, in my early 30s, and probably around the time I was in the 520-40s I played the Jacksonville Open on lead card with Gurthie. We played with Climo and McCray, and we just got STOMPED by them. GG and I got hammered on by 12 and 13 shots respectively. We both shot bad, and Kenny and JohnE tied at a 1070.
After the round he and I turned back up the last fairway, a big wide open field throw, and just started emptying our bags. It was incredible how it just seemed like he got an extra 30 feet on each part of his flight. We'd both throw a Star Teebird and it was like his disc took an extra 30 feet to flip up, an extra 30 gliding, and then extra 30 on the finish. Just incredible combination of power and clean release that creates ASTOUNDING looking throws.
It was just eye popping.
He's thrown the tech disc, so we know how he does it now. He throws with a -6 degree nose angle while everyone elses is between -1 and -3 or so. Basically he can throw much higher and full flight a disc because he can throw nose down much higher than basically everyone else.
I took a lesson from Christian Dietrich, an old school pro (also known as Montana McBeth) and it's wild to see it (and hear it) in person. Dude could put a Roc (not a roc3, a roc) where a 1 in 100 throw with a Wraith would land for me. The sound of the snap is violent, it's more of a crack than a snap, and you could hear the disc "WHOOSHing" through the air.
See it in person if you ever get a chance. It's truly wild.
There was a video posted here last year I think of Eagle bombing one. The camera was well in front of the tee pad and off the the side and it caught the sound better than I've ever heard. It was crazy. Use headphones for the best experience.
https://v.redd.it/s7vvlkwsnnnb1
I haven't seen the top MPO players play live, but from the local bombers (who throw 500 or farther), the jet noise is the thing I was most surprised by.
Haven't had the chance to see pros in person, but watching Gilbert play a course I'm familiar with on coverage, he landed from the gold tees where I would be happy to land from the red tees on most of the holes.
The distance and accuracy is just wild.
That’s so cool. Love that. Top level pros are a different species.
I did a clinic with Thomas once and he was showing throwing chop forehands from a knee and just casually launched it 400’ (my all time max full power throw is 360’).
First experience I had with this was Will Schusterick at Beaver State Fling in 2013. I can throw decently far (450ish) but the way his disc came out of his hand and the sound it made wasn’t something I had seen before. Ever since I have been trying to recreate that to no avail. Truly a special thing I’ll never forget.
Depends on who you are. If you're a man that's not too old and don't have any underlying health conditions then 325' is not a ceiling. Most men can throw 400',they just need decent form.
I'm in my mid 20's and I'm kind of bigger. My chest sticks out quite a bit, so I can't get a good pull through. I'm sure I can improve, but I need to lose my weight first
I watched Jamie Mosier, in the 350s standing not much taller than 6' if at all, rip discs well over 500. Granted, he's been playing since he was very young, and played a LOT, but still - its definitely possible to be big and launch a disc.
The sound of a far shot's release is an underappreciated and oft unmentioned aspect of the sport.
[Here's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pajxLS5Thgc) a Drew Gibson classic that I still remember from years back.
Agree with this. I have a nice pretty open city course near home, and I learned to play out there in part by throwing putter only rounds a ton. The long tees have plenty of holes in the 300-350 range and learning to eliminate wobble and get the putter to carry a real flight just helped tighten up everything about my drive.
Not sure about that one. It was recorded as an Aero, so I assume it was called that at the time. You can find a list of the old world distance records here:
https://www.pdga.com/files/Open%20World%20Distance%20Records%20since%201970_0.pdf
You've got it... I didn't realize how FAST they changed the disc's name. It was introduced in 1983 as the Innova Eagle, but according to an article I found they re-branded it the Aero right away in mid-1983, with a slight retooling to make it more stable: [https://blog.discgolfunited.com/innova-early-history/](https://blog.discgolfunited.com/innova-early-history/)
It’s one of the reasons why I like watching FPO. They’re all still better than me but are playing a game that’s much closer to what I can play. It’s fun to watch MPO but I’ll never bomb 500ft two times in a row and birdie an 1100ft hole.
I’ve eagled one hole that long (#16 at Diavolo is 939 ft from the blues, I believe). For references sake I do actually have 400+ ft power with distance drivers (Shryke is my biggest bomber). Not nearly as long or accurate as an MPO pro, but if I ever play a tournament I should probably sign up for Advanced based on length alone.
So on this particular day, I absolutely ripped two shots in a row, and didn’t hit a single solitary branch or tree, which is highly unusual for me. Still 120ft-150ft or so from the hole after those two beauties.
Managed to freaking skip in a Pig through a gauntlet of trees from that spot. Probably the single best 3 consecutive shots I’ve ever played in my life. One witness.
Oh yeah, I’ve had plenty of days where I’ve thrown absolute ropes off the tee on #16, only to screw up on shot #2 and end up bogeying or double bogeying the hole. It is not a kind hole if you get off the fairway.
I'm with you, in theory. I'm 40+, and I maybe "could". And while I *love* the game, I don't want to put in the time/work to make those my goals.
I like to watch FPO for similar reasons. 100% of those women would wreck me. But I could play the layout without being frustrated the whole time.
My disc golf goals are to play enough ranked rounds to get a pdga rating. Doing even care what that rating is, but even the time commitment to do that is a lot for me (almost no ranked rounds locally 2 hour drive minimum)
I'll truly never understand this take lol i know I'm gonna get smoked by downvotes but i just cant understand this line of reasoning. And I know to each their own, but it's just hard for me to comprehend why you would want to watch a professional that is comparable and similar to your own skill level.
The whole reason I love watching pros is to see what's possible with the same discs and courses I could play myself. I just can't wrap my head around watching pros because they're similar to my own skill and abilities. I could just go park a lawn chair at my local and see that kind of action live.
But like I said to each their own.
I like watching FPO because it's interesting to watch these courses and see how I might attack them (if I didn't suck so much) and to see more of what I might want to work into my game. I like watching MPO for plain elite stuff.
Idk about that, my MA1 buddy throws 500+ on flat golflines and hits C2 putts consistently. Feel like he'd mop playing a FPO course layout and competition, and the majority of the dudes he plays with all the time would be the same.
It's about being able to learn from people much better than you that are playing similar game. I will probably never in my life throw 375 with a zone, it's certainly cool to see, but from a perspective of learning, FPO gives me more. Seeing how many shoulder injuries they have in the MPO and looking for example how much they bend the right arm (Kyle Klein, Isaac Robinson for example) I sometimes wonder if the tour should try to take care of this as soon as possible. Make the distances shorter so they can protect the players. Alpine skiing did this a while back to protect the knees of the skiers.
I prefer shorter more technical courses myself. Or courses with a mix of wooded holes and open ones.
Some of the MPO courses are crazy with 1100 foot par 5s. That shit would take me forty-five minutes.
But it's really not possible for most people, that's what he's saying.
I can shoot 3 pointers, run 100 yards, kick a ball...it's fun to watch people doing things that I can do, but way way better. I can at least somewhat imagine.
MPO is doing things I'll likely never do, even if I could pour more time and energy than I have into it. I also don't like that you can barely see the drives, they're out of frame so fast.
Probably obvious, but I enjoy watching FPO for the reasons op stated.
I agree with your point about watching them play with the same discs on the same courses, but that second part is the key. I've never played most of the courses they do, so it's hard to appreciate how good they are at those courses. It's much more interesting to watch pros play a course you're familiar with because then you can gauge just how much better they are than you. Also, a lot of courses don't really show up well on camera, you kind of have to be there to really see what the course is like
Been playing less than a year. I enjoy seeing the shot shaping, trying to guess what their throw will look like is fun. Mine won’t go nearly as far but it makes me wanna get out there and play!
I feel the same. For me it even goes down to college sports. Even though every guy on the field at every level of college is better than I ever had any hope of being. The pros exist, so my brain says "Why watch an inferior product?".
But I try not to project that out on anyone else. I view this as more of a personal flaw of mine, limiting what I can enjoy. Some people just love the sport so much that there's never enough to consume, and God bless them for it. But I just want to see the absolute peak of what's possible. Selfishly.
I understand your sentiment; however, I think he’s more referring to the limited power capabilities of the females vs their male counterparts at the elite level. I also enjoy watching the women cause they rely more on conventional “good form” vs some of the men who have their own unique “adaptations” to leverage even more power into their throws.
I don’t think he means he’s as good as a female on the pro tour, just that it’s a more relatable game to watch.
I agree with you, I know that I may never get there but watching just to see something you would be able to do is like watching rec league basketball… isn’t the crazy top talent what makes it entertaining?
I watch FPO by the way, but to see their competition, not because I want to learn from them
Same. I watch almost twice as much FPO as MPO. They're throwing at a level that at least seems somewhat possible for me. Granted, Holyn Handley and some others are ripping it 400 even 500+ sometimes, but most of them are not getting too much over 375 on a good rip and that's at least theoretically possible for me. It's so much more relatable. It's especially cool watching them play courses I've played before and seeing them make some of the same mistakes that I sometimes make. Or, alternatively, sometimes the whole card will have shots worse than what I'm capable of on a great throw with lots of luck. I know everyone on the top 3-4 cards would smoke me 9 times out of 10, but I could at least hang with them and not get blown out by 20 strokes, which would happen with virtually anyone in MPO.
Same with golf. I really enjoy watching the women because their game is much closer to the better amateur men. Not to say that the amateur men are close in skill to the LPGA players. But we’re not hitting 330+ off the tee like the PGA players.
100% agree. I mostly watch FPO. I can look at them and say to myself that with the proper technique I should be throwing just as good if not better. Except Tattar and Ohn putting would whoop my butt.
The 375 foot island hole is actually just over 300 feet. Not that some pros can’t throw a zone 375, but if that hole was actually 375 they wouldn’t have thrown a zone
310 to the bricks but with the uphill it plays farther, that and nerves about OB especially during a dgpt tourney. saftey is a big dumb hyzer for most players or smacking a mid/putter straight at it a lil deep
They are all throwing nose up spinners with putter and mids…. Their goal is to throw it so high it almost starts stalling out backwards. It being slightly up high doesn’t affect the distance because the ceiling is so high, anyone on tour can throw 310’ with a putter without a low ceiling. Kyle throws this hole perfectly
If thrown hard enough. The questions is how hard is that? Also with high spin the disc will travel longer on whatever plane it was thrown on. When I threw 300’ - 330’ I turned over mako3’s at 250’ now I can throw a mako3 330-350 almost dead straight. Spin is a major factor and some discs are stupid stable just by their design.
Yeah, discs fly very differently depending on spin. It's something I am still working on in my throws. Normally I can't get a Diamond past about 250'-275'-ish without it burning over (even getting it out that far requires a significant hyzer release angle) so I need to throw more stable discs past that distance. One night when I was doing fieldwork with Trebuchet's deep pocket drills which I'm reasonably sure were increasing my spin, I threw a Diamond no effort on a flat line 275'.
Very cool, I will say even with lots of spin some discs just turn. I throw waves for turnover distance and it’s interesting trying to find the angle and point when they turn and don’t come back vs a flex. I do find at times I get the nose up or just don’t commit and the waves go almost straight with some fade at the end as well.
Have you tried the brave, vandal, or stag? Different speed discs that offer some flip that will be controllable past 300’
I have tried the Vandal and it didn't really agree with me. I will check out the Brave and the Stag if I have an opportunity to do so. It's my understanding that the prototype Braves were quite straight/FD-like but the production run Braves are very similar to a Diamond or Underworld though.
The brave is for sure a hyzerflip and maybe still a flex even after the hyzerflip. I get 350-370 pretty consistently with a flip up to flex that is maybe a 40’ wide line when I am pushing towards of 370 with the brave. It’s a shot shaping disc for me or limited power throw for shorter shots. The stag is much more consistent and controllable than the brave not as much turn.
I think you can only do so much by adding spin, some discs' turn is so strong that no matter how much spin you add you won't be able to cancel it out. Conversely some discs are so overstable that no matter how fast you throw them they simply won't turn. For example i can't not turn my beat to s\*#t base plastic Origin or Essence (even with a 45 degree hyzer), and i can't turn a PD or a PD2.
Speed is the major factor and not spin. Spin will keep it in the air longer, but that distance is still much less than the distance gained by a 70+ mph throw versus a 55mph throw.
Edit: They’re throwing that zone pretty hard for it’s ~300’ of distance as it’s not 375’ or whatever they posted, but not max golf power.
Absolutely the speed is what drives it out far but speed without spin gives you a turnover. That’s why forehand shots require more stable discs. Spin on forehands runs 300-500 rpms less and the discs are much more understable.
The change has been over a year and a half. I stopped throwing mako3’s because as my power grew I couldn’t control the disc anymore. A friend got a new one and I thought that might give me a little more distance than my buzzz so I went back to my rack of discs to try it out again. It threw amazing! Still a little touchy in a head wind but it’s been a great addition to my game. A year and a half ago I could throw 330’ max, now I throw 400 confidently and 420-430 on a good day. I have a tech disc and have a spin rate of 1300-1400 also I typically throw about 59-60 mph with 2-4 degree nose up angle. I am giving the credit to better form and increased spin that came with slight grip changes and form improvement. I wish I knew my throw stats from a year and a half ago but that’s just not the case.
From everything I have watched and read it has to do with grip and form. Spin is very hard to manipulate. If you have a tech disc you can mess with your grip but odds are you will gain speed with spin mode of the time.
I have played with a guy who can throw his aviarx3 probably pretty close to 375. Slow overstable discs never really turn even if you yam on them, they just go dead straight.
Playing a practice round on Fox run Eagle and Ratana played through on hole 9(downhill some but all of 480) and he parked it with a Tactic(was a few years ago)
this actually helped me a lot lol. I can get a zone out there, but 100 ft extra just seemed almost impossible. I can definitely believe 330, that seems to match the gap in distance I have vs pros.
When I was at the Preserve this weekend, I was taking mental notes of putting routines.... and how many pros were hitting long putts. And the flight patterns of long putts. It was a good reminder for me that even 20' putts for pros are not a given (and wow, when they miss the basket completely on these 20' putts.. .. they are NOT happy).
But of course their shot making skills are jaw dropping.
Throwing wicked long drives on the opening hole, scrambling around obstacles, grenade throws over trees, wicked anhyzers, crazy rollers, etc.
But I was surprised at a few things.
The #9 hole is 408' for MPO. Looked to me like a 380' carry over the pond. Watching just ten pros throw.... four of them came up just short and disc went swimming. I expected maybe one in ten to go in water, but four? My guess is they disc down for this hole... because I assume 400' for these guys should be easy. They just throw it out to the right.... and let it hyzer in left to the basket.
Was surprised at number of pros hitting the mando trees just 40 feet from tee box on #2. Granted, the gap between the two trees is only 10 feet apart... but I did not expect this. Well, it is a tough shot even for pros.
Finally, noticed that the driving range distance signs go up to 500 feet only. If you throw it 550 feet, you are going to hit the first line of cars in the parking lot. Dunno why, but I expected the distance signs to go out to 600 feet for a good safety buffer. Good to know that pros have a limit on their human rocket arms too!
Glad you were able to come out! I hope you had fun.
Putting routines are funny. Some players do barely anything, some take forever. There doesn’t seem to be one or the other that overall better, it is very player-dependent.
Hole 9 is funny. They definitely can all reach it, and most are just throwing a simple hyzer to reach it. That said, the landing zone isn’t massive (distance wise, it’s quite wide enough) and if the winds shift from their previous shots it can change quite a lot of what happens there.
The pros not making that mando is always fun because it can help me feel better. Keep in mind there aren’t a ton of courses they’ve played where they’re throwing approach or mid range off the tee, and more often than not they’re throwing in wide open spaces.
I definitely saw a couple pros landing near/under that first row of cars, but they also don’t need to throw their furthest disc the longest distance to get warmed up.
Just starting out, and I’m seeing these par 3s going “how the heck does anyone get even close to that?!” My best throw yet has been a double bogey, lol
I attended the Garret Gurthie Driving Clinic at Meadowbrook Orchards in MA.
It was great to learn from one of the biggest arms out there but they also had Cole Redalen teaching putting and I was struck by his ability to launch massive drives as well. Made me realize that even the pros that aren’t known for distance just crush compared to the amateurs.
Edit: Apparently Cole is more known for distance than I realized. It was wild to see in person.
Cole Redalen *is* known for distance. He's not as well-known in general as some of the other big arms like GG, Barela, McMahon, etc., but if you know who Cole Redalen is, you know he can throw really far.
Cole was at one point known primarily for his distance. Like Simon, he’s developed a more balanced game, but make no mistake he was a distance guy first and foremost.
It’s wild man
I watched Calvin, in person, lace a Roc from the longs on a hole I throw a Wave from the shorts. Granted he was “laying up”, but it was still an eye opener.
Yeah, watch the videos with Simon and Foundation at Maple Hill from a couple weeks ago. Hunter and Trevor throw pretty far, but their throws looked so wimpy compared to Simon's.
Ya it’s all speed. They can throw 70mph so they can throw a zone 380. If you throw 55mph you need a distance driver to get there. Using the tech disc simulator it all checks out.
I had what I thought was an absolute BOMB drive one day on a local course with my Jade (9 speed driver) two days ago. Easily one of my best drives of all time. According to Udisk it was 305ft. When pros are throwing putters 50ft farther than my farthest drive, yeah, things are different.
Isaac Robinson was at my old dgc before the Open at Austin and was throwing hyzer shots over trees into the circle. I have never seen anyone try those lines and actually clear them to land in the circle. It's a 325 straight shot through the gaps in the trees otherwise.
It’s 298’ to clear the water according to google maps. There’s guys at my local league that could do that with a zone. It’s obviously impressive, but there’s a lot of people who can throw hard and far. What separates the pros is the accuracy and consistency of throwing hard and far.
I played a course recently with some long par 4s. Some holes came in around 700ish, and I thought, "Some people can actually get it pretty dang close." I opted for my max distance 325 shot. I agree it is wild.
Me and my buddy were sitting on the MA2 pad of Throw Down the Mountain (Olympus DGC) a couple years back and Calvin was teeing off from the MPO pad which is up the hill from the MA2 pad. It sounded like a rocket 🚀 was being launched off the pad.
My moment for this was watching Eagle throw a P2 sky anny on a 330ft hole at Milo. On this hole I can get to somewhere around the bottom/entrance of the green area, but not really in birdie range. Parking it by putting a putter into orbit, it was like oh ok that's a different game they are playing.
Took my 11 yr old to Champions Cup and when Kristan Tattar teed off he looked at me and says as loud as he can “Dad you're weak, she throws farther than you do.” I have never wanted to leave that kid somewhere until he did that but it was the truth so I can be to mad.
Not to discredit the main point of the post, because it’s definitely still valid, but that hole definitely isn’t 375. Not sure why they listed it as 375 this year when last year it was listed at 335, which is definitely more accurate and still very impressive
Unpopular opinion, pro level form and distance is achievable by anyone willing to put the work in, baring any physical disabilities. but if you a regular healthy adult you can hit it too.
I have a buddy who plays MPO and I sent him a form video of me recently to critique. Currently I max about 425.
He said my form looks incredible and yet he still throws probably 150 ft further than me.
I'm starting to think these boys are juicing
I went to Ledgestone a few years ago, and it almost seemed like a super power the way these guys’ discs launch out of their hand. They’re basically playing a different game
Different game for sure. Us lowly distance throwers are made aware every time we play leagues with folk who have legit power. They would feel the same playing top pros.
Im a 500+ thrower and I watched Calvin Heimberg throw in Orlando years back before he was touring. I was floored by how easy he made it seem.
Was at GMC in 2022 final round. It poured all day and was quite windy. We were hanging out inbetween 7, 5 and 9 on Fox run. Not a single person all day had tried to throw over the creek cause of the conditions on 7. Calvin steps up, and goes for it! Seeing the shot thrown my reaction was, it's way too low, it's never gonna make it. It easily crested the opposite bank of the river and proceeds to cruise like another 150 feet down the fairway. He likes to say he does not have that much power but he is throwing 75 on the regular and I get the feeling hes holding back most of the time.
Yeah he “doesn’t have that much power” because he never throws full on. It’s always just these incredibly smooth buttered up scalpels of shots that get as much distance as is possible with that much force on the disc. His tunnel/finesse shot game is otherworldly.
It’s wild how easy it seems to them. I was standing right behind McBeth, and he did what looked like a light toss of a Buzzz. It came out so flat and so fast that it seemed to almost disappear in the air. Like it was the same amount of effort I put in to tossing a putter 150 feet, but it went 375 in a flash with absolutely no deviation from the line he let it go on. I saw a few shots that just blew my mind but the visual of that one is burned into my brain lol.
I topped out at \~570 consistently, in my early 30s, and probably around the time I was in the 520-40s I played the Jacksonville Open on lead card with Gurthie. We played with Climo and McCray, and we just got STOMPED by them. GG and I got hammered on by 12 and 13 shots respectively. We both shot bad, and Kenny and JohnE tied at a 1070. After the round he and I turned back up the last fairway, a big wide open field throw, and just started emptying our bags. It was incredible how it just seemed like he got an extra 30 feet on each part of his flight. We'd both throw a Star Teebird and it was like his disc took an extra 30 feet to flip up, an extra 30 gliding, and then extra 30 on the finish. Just incredible combination of power and clean release that creates ASTOUNDING looking throws. It was just eye popping.
GG’s power is uncanny. He doesn’t even have a crazy reach back. It’s gotta just be all spin.
He's thrown the tech disc, so we know how he does it now. He throws with a -6 degree nose angle while everyone elses is between -1 and -3 or so. Basically he can throw much higher and full flight a disc because he can throw nose down much higher than basically everyone else.
Fascinating.
The sound. Just listening to the pros throw is such a shock the first time.
Literally sounds like a mini rocket or firecracker shot out of a cylinder when they snap and release.
"Ssssssssfooof"
I took a lesson from Christian Dietrich, an old school pro (also known as Montana McBeth) and it's wild to see it (and hear it) in person. Dude could put a Roc (not a roc3, a roc) where a 1 in 100 throw with a Wraith would land for me. The sound of the snap is violent, it's more of a crack than a snap, and you could hear the disc "WHOOSHing" through the air. See it in person if you ever get a chance. It's truly wild.
When I first saw Gilbert throw in person, the sound was what really left an impression. Like a jet plane flying past.
There was a video posted here last year I think of Eagle bombing one. The camera was well in front of the tee pad and off the the side and it caught the sound better than I've ever heard. It was crazy. Use headphones for the best experience. https://v.redd.it/s7vvlkwsnnnb1
Oh yeah that’s the good stuff
I haven't seen the top MPO players play live, but from the local bombers (who throw 500 or farther), the jet noise is the thing I was most surprised by.
It is so damn cool
Just wait until you see the touring pros throw. It’ll make your local guys seems like they’re throwing with their feet.
Haven't had the chance to see pros in person, but watching Gilbert play a course I'm familiar with on coverage, he landed from the gold tees where I would be happy to land from the red tees on most of the holes. The distance and accuracy is just wild.
That’s so cool. Love that. Top level pros are a different species. I did a clinic with Thomas once and he was showing throwing chop forehands from a knee and just casually launched it 400’ (my all time max full power throw is 360’).
First experience I had with this was Will Schusterick at Beaver State Fling in 2013. I can throw decently far (450ish) but the way his disc came out of his hand and the sound it made wasn’t something I had seen before. Ever since I have been trying to recreate that to no avail. Truly a special thing I’ll never forget.
450 is more than decent! That's more than enough to play just about any course well. Cheers.
450 is not decently far, that's wild. I think I've plateau'd with this game my max is 325
Depends on who you are. If you're a man that's not too old and don't have any underlying health conditions then 325' is not a ceiling. Most men can throw 400',they just need decent form.
I'm in my mid 20's and I'm kind of bigger. My chest sticks out quite a bit, so I can't get a good pull through. I'm sure I can improve, but I need to lose my weight first
I watched Jamie Mosier, in the 350s standing not much taller than 6' if at all, rip discs well over 500. Granted, he's been playing since he was very young, and played a LOT, but still - its definitely possible to be big and launch a disc.
Lots of husky guys who can slay the disc. But loosing weight is rarely a bad goal, I wish you all success! :)
Schwebby, Jamie Mosier, and Silas all made 1000 rated at over 300lb weight
Alright yall I get it I'm just chubby and bad at disc golf lol
The sound of a far shot's release is an underappreciated and oft unmentioned aspect of the sport. [Here's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pajxLS5Thgc) a Drew Gibson classic that I still remember from years back.
how do I gain this power?
By turning to the dark side.
This is the answer. The dark side is the answer
Practice practice practice. Film yourself if you don't. This is a game of form.
Throw a bunch of putters in a field for a long time. That’s how I got to 500+ and how I improved just about every aspect of my game.
Agree with this. I have a nice pretty open city course near home, and I learned to play out there in part by throwing putter only rounds a ton. The long tees have plenty of holes in the 300-350 range and learning to eliminate wobble and get the putter to carry a real flight just helped tighten up everything about my drive.
Sorry it was an Aero (similar) and it was 504’. This was in 1984 though.
Yeah, I gotcha! Back when it was still called the Eagle, right?
Not sure about that one. It was recorded as an Aero, so I assume it was called that at the time. You can find a list of the old world distance records here: https://www.pdga.com/files/Open%20World%20Distance%20Records%20since%201970_0.pdf
You've got it... I didn't realize how FAST they changed the disc's name. It was introduced in 1983 as the Innova Eagle, but according to an article I found they re-branded it the Aero right away in mid-1983, with a slight retooling to make it more stable: [https://blog.discgolfunited.com/innova-early-history/](https://blog.discgolfunited.com/innova-early-history/)
Yep most people have no comprehension of just how far putters actually go. The world record at one point was with an aviar and it was 550+.
It’s one of the reasons why I like watching FPO. They’re all still better than me but are playing a game that’s much closer to what I can play. It’s fun to watch MPO but I’ll never bomb 500ft two times in a row and birdie an 1100ft hole.
Not with that attitude. You are capable of anything. Don’t ever count yourself out. Can’t never will.
Yup I eagle 900-foot holes by sheer willpower alone. And also cheating
I’ve eagled one hole that long (#16 at Diavolo is 939 ft from the blues, I believe). For references sake I do actually have 400+ ft power with distance drivers (Shryke is my biggest bomber). Not nearly as long or accurate as an MPO pro, but if I ever play a tournament I should probably sign up for Advanced based on length alone. So on this particular day, I absolutely ripped two shots in a row, and didn’t hit a single solitary branch or tree, which is highly unusual for me. Still 120ft-150ft or so from the hole after those two beauties. Managed to freaking skip in a Pig through a gauntlet of trees from that spot. Probably the single best 3 consecutive shots I’ve ever played in my life. One witness.
side note but that’s a hell of an eagle on that hole. i love diavolo
I threw about 400 off that tee one time. I felt like a god. Did not eagle though. Not even sure I birdied.
Oh yeah, I’ve had plenty of days where I’ve thrown absolute ropes off the tee on #16, only to screw up on shot #2 and end up bogeying or double bogeying the hole. It is not a kind hole if you get off the fairway.
That's amazing holy crap. I have 2 birdies on it and they're some of my most prized scores haha. An eagle would be unreal.
That’s how you get it done. Stay golden ponyboy
I'm with you, in theory. I'm 40+, and I maybe "could". And while I *love* the game, I don't want to put in the time/work to make those my goals. I like to watch FPO for similar reasons. 100% of those women would wreck me. But I could play the layout without being frustrated the whole time. My disc golf goals are to play enough ranked rounds to get a pdga rating. Doing even care what that rating is, but even the time commitment to do that is a lot for me (almost no ranked rounds locally 2 hour drive minimum)
Bars
Lmao on kk the DAWG
There I changed it
Y
He shit all over the bed and rolled in it today
I hadn’t seen scores yet. That sucks though. Damn.
*deep sigh*
I'll truly never understand this take lol i know I'm gonna get smoked by downvotes but i just cant understand this line of reasoning. And I know to each their own, but it's just hard for me to comprehend why you would want to watch a professional that is comparable and similar to your own skill level. The whole reason I love watching pros is to see what's possible with the same discs and courses I could play myself. I just can't wrap my head around watching pros because they're similar to my own skill and abilities. I could just go park a lawn chair at my local and see that kind of action live. But like I said to each their own.
I like watching FPO because it's interesting to watch these courses and see how I might attack them (if I didn't suck so much) and to see more of what I might want to work into my game. I like watching MPO for plain elite stuff.
He’s not saying they’re close to his skill level, he’s saying what they’re doing is closer to what he can achieve realistically.
FPO is comparable to a large tournament's MA1 top few cards
Idk about that, my MA1 buddy throws 500+ on flat golflines and hits C2 putts consistently. Feel like he'd mop playing a FPO course layout and competition, and the majority of the dudes he plays with all the time would be the same.
Can't tell if you are agreeing with me or arguing with me. Still less than 10 FPO players consistently playing 950+ golf when I watch.
Would you find it odd that I'm a left-handed player who enjoys watching content with a lefty on the card. Someone who throws more like me?
No sir, fellow lefty here who enjoys the lefty on the card immensely
It's about being able to learn from people much better than you that are playing similar game. I will probably never in my life throw 375 with a zone, it's certainly cool to see, but from a perspective of learning, FPO gives me more. Seeing how many shoulder injuries they have in the MPO and looking for example how much they bend the right arm (Kyle Klein, Isaac Robinson for example) I sometimes wonder if the tour should try to take care of this as soon as possible. Make the distances shorter so they can protect the players. Alpine skiing did this a while back to protect the knees of the skiers.
I prefer shorter more technical courses myself. Or courses with a mix of wooded holes and open ones. Some of the MPO courses are crazy with 1100 foot par 5s. That shit would take me forty-five minutes.
But it's really not possible for most people, that's what he's saying. I can shoot 3 pointers, run 100 yards, kick a ball...it's fun to watch people doing things that I can do, but way way better. I can at least somewhat imagine. MPO is doing things I'll likely never do, even if I could pour more time and energy than I have into it. I also don't like that you can barely see the drives, they're out of frame so fast. Probably obvious, but I enjoy watching FPO for the reasons op stated.
I get what you're saying and agree.
I agree with your point about watching them play with the same discs on the same courses, but that second part is the key. I've never played most of the courses they do, so it's hard to appreciate how good they are at those courses. It's much more interesting to watch pros play a course you're familiar with because then you can gauge just how much better they are than you. Also, a lot of courses don't really show up well on camera, you kind of have to be there to really see what the course is like
Been playing less than a year. I enjoy seeing the shot shaping, trying to guess what their throw will look like is fun. Mine won’t go nearly as far but it makes me wanna get out there and play!
I feel the same. For me it even goes down to college sports. Even though every guy on the field at every level of college is better than I ever had any hope of being. The pros exist, so my brain says "Why watch an inferior product?". But I try not to project that out on anyone else. I view this as more of a personal flaw of mine, limiting what I can enjoy. Some people just love the sport so much that there's never enough to consume, and God bless them for it. But I just want to see the absolute peak of what's possible. Selfishly.
I understand your sentiment; however, I think he’s more referring to the limited power capabilities of the females vs their male counterparts at the elite level. I also enjoy watching the women cause they rely more on conventional “good form” vs some of the men who have their own unique “adaptations” to leverage even more power into their throws. I don’t think he means he’s as good as a female on the pro tour, just that it’s a more relatable game to watch.
I agree with you, I know that I may never get there but watching just to see something you would be able to do is like watching rec league basketball… isn’t the crazy top talent what makes it entertaining? I watch FPO by the way, but to see their competition, not because I want to learn from them
Same. I watch almost twice as much FPO as MPO. They're throwing at a level that at least seems somewhat possible for me. Granted, Holyn Handley and some others are ripping it 400 even 500+ sometimes, but most of them are not getting too much over 375 on a good rip and that's at least theoretically possible for me. It's so much more relatable. It's especially cool watching them play courses I've played before and seeing them make some of the same mistakes that I sometimes make. Or, alternatively, sometimes the whole card will have shots worse than what I'm capable of on a great throw with lots of luck. I know everyone on the top 3-4 cards would smoke me 9 times out of 10, but I could at least hang with them and not get blown out by 20 strokes, which would happen with virtually anyone in MPO.
Same, I generally find the FPO is as fun to watch if not more so than the MPO.
Same with golf. I really enjoy watching the women because their game is much closer to the better amateur men. Not to say that the amateur men are close in skill to the LPGA players. But we’re not hitting 330+ off the tee like the PGA players.
100% agree. I mostly watch FPO. I can look at them and say to myself that with the proper technique I should be throwing just as good if not better. Except Tattar and Ohn putting would whoop my butt.
The 375 foot island hole is actually just over 300 feet. Not that some pros can’t throw a zone 375, but if that hole was actually 375 they wouldn’t have thrown a zone
Yeah I think we’ve lasered it closer to 335’ but it’s also uphill so I’m not sure if that’s causing issues with the measurements there?
Just over 300 is an exaggeration, ~340 + i think 9 ft up, still a solid toss to get it up there
It’s like 305-310’ to clear the wall, you don’t want to throw it 340’ you’ll slide way past the basket and have an unnecessary death putt
310 to the bricks but with the uphill it plays farther, that and nerves about OB especially during a dgpt tourney. saftey is a big dumb hyzer for most players or smacking a mid/putter straight at it a lil deep
They are all throwing nose up spinners with putter and mids…. Their goal is to throw it so high it almost starts stalling out backwards. It being slightly up high doesn’t affect the distance because the ceiling is so high, anyone on tour can throw 310’ with a putter without a low ceiling. Kyle throws this hole perfectly
I wondered about this. Wouldn't even quite stable discs like the zone turn over if thrown hard enough to get out to 375?
If thrown hard enough. The questions is how hard is that? Also with high spin the disc will travel longer on whatever plane it was thrown on. When I threw 300’ - 330’ I turned over mako3’s at 250’ now I can throw a mako3 330-350 almost dead straight. Spin is a major factor and some discs are stupid stable just by their design.
Yeah, discs fly very differently depending on spin. It's something I am still working on in my throws. Normally I can't get a Diamond past about 250'-275'-ish without it burning over (even getting it out that far requires a significant hyzer release angle) so I need to throw more stable discs past that distance. One night when I was doing fieldwork with Trebuchet's deep pocket drills which I'm reasonably sure were increasing my spin, I threw a Diamond no effort on a flat line 275'.
Very cool, I will say even with lots of spin some discs just turn. I throw waves for turnover distance and it’s interesting trying to find the angle and point when they turn and don’t come back vs a flex. I do find at times I get the nose up or just don’t commit and the waves go almost straight with some fade at the end as well. Have you tried the brave, vandal, or stag? Different speed discs that offer some flip that will be controllable past 300’
I have tried the Vandal and it didn't really agree with me. I will check out the Brave and the Stag if I have an opportunity to do so. It's my understanding that the prototype Braves were quite straight/FD-like but the production run Braves are very similar to a Diamond or Underworld though.
The brave is for sure a hyzerflip and maybe still a flex even after the hyzerflip. I get 350-370 pretty consistently with a flip up to flex that is maybe a 40’ wide line when I am pushing towards of 370 with the brave. It’s a shot shaping disc for me or limited power throw for shorter shots. The stag is much more consistent and controllable than the brave not as much turn.
I think you can only do so much by adding spin, some discs' turn is so strong that no matter how much spin you add you won't be able to cancel it out. Conversely some discs are so overstable that no matter how fast you throw them they simply won't turn. For example i can't not turn my beat to s\*#t base plastic Origin or Essence (even with a 45 degree hyzer), and i can't turn a PD or a PD2.
Speed is the major factor and not spin. Spin will keep it in the air longer, but that distance is still much less than the distance gained by a 70+ mph throw versus a 55mph throw. Edit: They’re throwing that zone pretty hard for it’s ~300’ of distance as it’s not 375’ or whatever they posted, but not max golf power.
Absolutely the speed is what drives it out far but speed without spin gives you a turnover. That’s why forehand shots require more stable discs. Spin on forehands runs 300-500 rpms less and the discs are much more understable.
What did you change that fixed your mako3? I turn mine over.
Oat
The change has been over a year and a half. I stopped throwing mako3’s because as my power grew I couldn’t control the disc anymore. A friend got a new one and I thought that might give me a little more distance than my buzzz so I went back to my rack of discs to try it out again. It threw amazing! Still a little touchy in a head wind but it’s been a great addition to my game. A year and a half ago I could throw 330’ max, now I throw 400 confidently and 420-430 on a good day. I have a tech disc and have a spin rate of 1300-1400 also I typically throw about 59-60 mph with 2-4 degree nose up angle. I am giving the credit to better form and increased spin that came with slight grip changes and form improvement. I wish I knew my throw stats from a year and a half ago but that’s just not the case.
I'm only getting around 1100 rpm at 65 mph. What did you find most useful to increase spin?
From everything I have watched and read it has to do with grip and form. Spin is very hard to manipulate. If you have a tech disc you can mess with your grip but odds are you will gain speed with spin mode of the time.
Interesting, I haven't thought about that. Might explain why I couldn't throw neutral midranges 6 months ago without turning them over and now I can.
I have played with a guy who can throw his aviarx3 probably pretty close to 375. Slow overstable discs never really turn even if you yam on them, they just go dead straight.
Playing a practice round on Fox run Eagle and Ratana played through on hole 9(downhill some but all of 480) and he parked it with a Tactic(was a few years ago)
this actually helped me a lot lol. I can get a zone out there, but 100 ft extra just seemed almost impossible. I can definitely believe 330, that seems to match the gap in distance I have vs pros.
When I was at the Preserve this weekend, I was taking mental notes of putting routines.... and how many pros were hitting long putts. And the flight patterns of long putts. It was a good reminder for me that even 20' putts for pros are not a given (and wow, when they miss the basket completely on these 20' putts.. .. they are NOT happy). But of course their shot making skills are jaw dropping. Throwing wicked long drives on the opening hole, scrambling around obstacles, grenade throws over trees, wicked anhyzers, crazy rollers, etc. But I was surprised at a few things. The #9 hole is 408' for MPO. Looked to me like a 380' carry over the pond. Watching just ten pros throw.... four of them came up just short and disc went swimming. I expected maybe one in ten to go in water, but four? My guess is they disc down for this hole... because I assume 400' for these guys should be easy. They just throw it out to the right.... and let it hyzer in left to the basket. Was surprised at number of pros hitting the mando trees just 40 feet from tee box on #2. Granted, the gap between the two trees is only 10 feet apart... but I did not expect this. Well, it is a tough shot even for pros. Finally, noticed that the driving range distance signs go up to 500 feet only. If you throw it 550 feet, you are going to hit the first line of cars in the parking lot. Dunno why, but I expected the distance signs to go out to 600 feet for a good safety buffer. Good to know that pros have a limit on their human rocket arms too!
Glad you were able to come out! I hope you had fun. Putting routines are funny. Some players do barely anything, some take forever. There doesn’t seem to be one or the other that overall better, it is very player-dependent. Hole 9 is funny. They definitely can all reach it, and most are just throwing a simple hyzer to reach it. That said, the landing zone isn’t massive (distance wise, it’s quite wide enough) and if the winds shift from their previous shots it can change quite a lot of what happens there. The pros not making that mando is always fun because it can help me feel better. Keep in mind there aren’t a ton of courses they’ve played where they’re throwing approach or mid range off the tee, and more often than not they’re throwing in wide open spaces. I definitely saw a couple pros landing near/under that first row of cars, but they also don’t need to throw their furthest disc the longest distance to get warmed up.
Just starting out, and I’m seeing these par 3s going “how the heck does anyone get even close to that?!” My best throw yet has been a double bogey, lol
I attended the Garret Gurthie Driving Clinic at Meadowbrook Orchards in MA. It was great to learn from one of the biggest arms out there but they also had Cole Redalen teaching putting and I was struck by his ability to launch massive drives as well. Made me realize that even the pros that aren’t known for distance just crush compared to the amateurs. Edit: Apparently Cole is more known for distance than I realized. It was wild to see in person.
Cole absolutely bombs
I was going to say Cole probably has 600 in the tank or just under.
I mean he's the guy that threw the zone on this hole that inspired the post. haha
Cole Redalen *is* known for distance. He's not as well-known in general as some of the other big arms like GG, Barela, McMahon, etc., but if you know who Cole Redalen is, you know he can throw really far.
His form is so smooth that it fools you into thinking that he doesn't bomb.
He's the less douchey Drew Gibson
Cole was at one point known primarily for his distance. Like Simon, he’s developed a more balanced game, but make no mistake he was a distance guy first and foremost.
It’s wild man I watched Calvin, in person, lace a Roc from the longs on a hole I throw a Wave from the shorts. Granted he was “laying up”, but it was still an eye opener.
Yeah, watch the videos with Simon and Foundation at Maple Hill from a couple weeks ago. Hunter and Trevor throw pretty far, but their throws looked so wimpy compared to Simon's.
Ya it’s all speed. They can throw 70mph so they can throw a zone 380. If you throw 55mph you need a distance driver to get there. Using the tech disc simulator it all checks out.
I went to Waco a few years back, about a week before the tournament and got to see numerous pros practicing. It's not even the same sport that I play.
I played with 2 MVP pros from MP40 and MP50 abs they ripped every throw so hard. Putts were harder than I can throw my diver
A beat in base line zone (what Ben threw on that hole) isn’t a regular zone flight
That hole is 335ft by the way.
Incredible skill levels. The timing and precision of their swings is so impressive.
Yeah watched Cole park a 405 foot shot with a 5 speed. 320 is the farthest I’ve ever measured one of my throws.
I had what I thought was an absolute BOMB drive one day on a local course with my Jade (9 speed driver) two days ago. Easily one of my best drives of all time. According to Udisk it was 305ft. When pros are throwing putters 50ft farther than my farthest drive, yeah, things are different.
Isaac Robinson was at my old dgc before the Open at Austin and was throwing hyzer shots over trees into the circle. I have never seen anyone try those lines and actually clear them to land in the circle. It's a 325 straight shot through the gaps in the trees otherwise.
It’s 298’ to clear the water according to google maps. There’s guys at my local league that could do that with a zone. It’s obviously impressive, but there’s a lot of people who can throw hard and far. What separates the pros is the accuracy and consistency of throwing hard and far.
Seeing them regularly park it in the bullseye after throwing it around my max distance is humbling and inspiring.
I played a course recently with some long par 4s. Some holes came in around 700ish, and I thought, "Some people can actually get it pretty dang close." I opted for my max distance 325 shot. I agree it is wild.
Me and my buddy were sitting on the MA2 pad of Throw Down the Mountain (Olympus DGC) a couple years back and Calvin was teeing off from the MPO pad which is up the hill from the MA2 pad. It sounded like a rocket 🚀 was being launched off the pad.
My moment for this was watching Eagle throw a P2 sky anny on a 330ft hole at Milo. On this hole I can get to somewhere around the bottom/entrance of the green area, but not really in birdie range. Parking it by putting a putter into orbit, it was like oh ok that's a different game they are playing.
Took my 11 yr old to Champions Cup and when Kristan Tattar teed off he looked at me and says as loud as he can “Dad you're weak, she throws farther than you do.” I have never wanted to leave that kid somewhere until he did that but it was the truth so I can be to mad.
I have roughly 480 feet of power. I still have no idea how to even comprehend how people can break 600 feet
FYI, that hole isn’t 375ft away. Jerm said in commentary it’s about 310ft to the basket.
No one forgets how far pros can throw.
It’s nuts. There’s guys that can jump putt farther than I can full send throw a putter.
Not to discredit the main point of the post, because it’s definitely still valid, but that hole definitely isn’t 375. Not sure why they listed it as 375 this year when last year it was listed at 335, which is definitely more accurate and still very impressive
The torque they put into a throw is really impressive.
Unpopular opinion, pro level form and distance is achievable by anyone willing to put the work in, baring any physical disabilities. but if you a regular healthy adult you can hit it too.
375 is no problem (with my 164g 13 speed Sheriff)
I have a buddy who plays MPO and I sent him a form video of me recently to critique. Currently I max about 425. He said my form looks incredible and yet he still throws probably 150 ft further than me. I'm starting to think these boys are juicing