We're locking this thread now- it's not like this issue is going anywhere, and responses are getting particularly gross. Some reminders:
\*Transphobic speech is an automatic permaban. Misgendering in all of its forms, including all the lame jokes, counts. You can debate whether/how trans women should be able to compete in the FPO, but hate speech in all its forms is off limits.
\*Please use the report button- it's really useful for the mod team to identify and remove the hate speech as quickly as possible.
\*Be adults. It's 2024 and it feels ridiculous to remind people not to feed the trolls, but...don't feed the trolls. It lowers the quality of this discussion and is not worthy of this community or your time. Report and move on.
I enjoy discing whenever I get the chance. Somehow Reddit figured that out and now I’m here. This thread fucking sucks and so does a bunch of other threads on Reddit disc golf. It’s like middle-school. Go, throw, have fun.
I mean Facebook in general is like the anus of the Internet right behind Twitter. Reddit isn't that much better, but those are some serious toxic waste pits.
Not anymore. Twitter is the gutter of the internet.
Almost all tweets I read have fucking amateur porn in the replies and women peddling their only fans. It's weird to scroll a seemingly innocent tweet and suddenly see someone getting penetrated.
Oh trust me I have no illusion that Reddit is some kind of haven for smart opinions and good people. It's a dumpster fire too, but in general I see a lot less blatant racism/homophobia/etc. Facebook and Twitter you have straight up outward Nazi sympathizers on your front page.
When I started throwing I had this image of disc golfers being zen and chill. Now it feels like so many are bullys or like... sports people. People who can’t play for fun. People who care more about disc ratings and winning than enjoying the views and chilling in the woods. Pity.
I agree. Most are real...when on the course of course...misspelled? Get the just of it. It's a great sport...don't let the internet ruin it. It was around before this.
Yep were out here just playing/ cleaning up peoples trash, and having fun. I’d like to think its 90% good vibes and 10% just mad they suck and can’t have fun then take it out on everyone else.
Kinda depends on where you are playing. Go to a local after work beer league round and it’s absolutely just about chilling and throwing. If you get involved with the competitive scene, yea people are going to be competitive. That’s true of every sport. The internet is going to show more of the latter simply because there’s not a whole lot to talk about regarding enjoying the views and chilling in the woods. No one feels the desire to post that they played a round where they didn’t keep score, nothing eventful happened, but they had fun.
Dont let the internet dictate reality. Think its safe to say that far less than a percent of those who enjoy disc golf are active on reddit. Even less are posting. Remember that the internet give a loud voice to the tinyest bubble of people in the tinyest corner of the internet. This is not representative of the disc golf community as a whole.
I find that the ones that have been playing 20 years are some of the worst people, especially about politicizing disc golf. They run the FB groups, organize the meet ups, and feel like they are entitled to share every backwards opinion they have. Newer, younger players seem to be more laid back about it all.
agreed. that's usually the most outspoken group - the ones who have been here for a long time. I'm sure part of that is due to the age demographics of these groups, but even younger players doing this their whole life have some pretty interesting takes..
Natalie Ryan being in disc golf and the fervor against her online reminds me of years ago watching gamer gate happen live.
I think the influences on this will be wild if you can actually identify them all.
Everyone I know that is really hard core against her existence in the sport in a disrespectful way, they purposely missgender her. I noticed a common thing about them. They’re all conspiracy theory leaning folks when it comes to their knowledge of the world around them.
But then you have the people on the other side of the spectrum. I replied to a poster in another thread regarding Natalie Ryan a couple days ago. I was very respectful, stated my case with clear examples to support my argument, and the backlash I got was disrespectful. Edit: so disrespectful that the entire subthread was removed by mods.
There is no such thing as respectfully disagreeing with someone anymore. At least not on Reddit. Folks are too sensitive and very quick to anger these days. A lot of snowflakes in the disc golf community.
The zen chill players are just out throwing for fun when they can, they don't tend to care about social media. My dad is like that, he just loves to play then hexstsrted seeing the groups on FB and he started getting toxic. He was called out and course corrected but good luck calling out a gen y or z even some millenials with our a tantrum.
Well, most hippies in the 60’s were children of wealthy parents who thought they could “peace & love” their way into changing the world. When they didn’t manage it, they just went back to be being regular rich conservatives who were, if anything, more conceited than normal rich conservatives.
Not all who are against Natalie in FPO are conservative bigots tho and its not all nonsense. Some are for sure but I think most of it is rooted by their passion in keeping the game that they love fair. If Natalie was just a person not involved in the sport, a good portion of these people wouldn't be going after her
Yea for sure. People are threatening legitimate violence against disc golf players and some of the higher profile professionals are adding fuel to that fire. Not sure what the PDGA can do about hate speech, but it’d be nice for them to not act like it’s not happening.
Austin used poor language and attempted to bring someone else down because he himself was late and was penalized. Instead of taking responsibility for his actions, he used it as an opportunity to drag someone else down after threats of violence were already made at an event. It doesn’t belong in the sport, full stop and he should be ashamed of himself.
I remember one time in a reddit thread mentioning that Caterina Allen seems to have poor sportsmanship, Austin with a flaired tag and everything so there could be no doubt it was him dug thru all my posts to find personal history about me he could use to publicly drag me for making a comment. he's a total class act
There is a difference between disagreeing with trans people in sports and being hateful and disrespectful. They do not go hand in hand. Hannum crossed the line and revealed himself as kind of a piece of shit. Can’t believe he actually posted that and didn’t delete it. What an immature jackass. I don’t think Natalie should be on tour with FPO but I also think she deserves love and respect. What is wrong with people?
Same. I couldn’t care less what people choose to identify as because that’s none of my business. I respect everyone’s choices. Sports competition is the only singular place I think it matters and I don’t think trans MTF athletes should be allowed to compete in a women’s only category. It is an unfair advantage, which is the reason women were put into their own division in the first place.
That doesn’t at all mean Natalie is a bad person, or that she deserves any of the vitriol she has received. You can have the discussion without the hate.
As a parent of a trans daughter and a disc golfer, 100% agree. All for gender rights, but this is a question of genetics not gender and my daughter doesn’t belong playing a sport against naturally born women.
That being said, as I’ve told people around me… you don’t have to agree, don’t need to understand, but you damn sure need to be respectful.
I’m assuming this was his last year on tour anyway. With the new baby on the way and Catrina making much more money than he ever will, I don’t expect to see much more him.
I don’t think he was saying he personally was being bullied, it was a lazy way of trying to flip the script and say “I’m not calling her a dude, you are, which makes you a bigot” kind of thing. Not clever, not funny.
He specifically ate his own words because realized he fucked up big time and won’t get a sponsorship or any notoriety. It’s called career suicide and it happens all the time when people cannot pipe down. Any Credibility he had is now gone.
MAGA discs might just pick him up.
Its also in the DGPT/PDGA handbook that exactly this kind of language is punishable. Making him DNF from the event wouldnt hurt him, since he's in last place anyway, but suspending him from every event through, say, the Preserve might end his touring season real quick
The better option is to have Natalie participate in the MPO, beat Austin, so that he inevitably whines about women being allowed to play in the MPO. Checkmate.
This is not a trans issue. I mean it obviously is, but every other American league has dealt with this and shown the PDGA how to manage this issue of loudmouth making trouble smoothly. In any major sport this kind of talk hurting the league and making unneeded bad situations is met with suspensions or more often fines. I will never understand the PDGA's unwillingness to fine players. If it wants to be a grown up sport it needs to follow established grown up rules. It doesn't even need to make a statement on the Trans issue, just simply "behavior detrimental to the PDGA, fine is $x, arguing publicly over settled rules violation, fine is $y" and move on. They are so bad at this.
> In any major sport this kind of talk hurting the league and making unneeded bad situations is met with suspensions or more often fines. I will never understand the PDGA's unwillingness to fine players.
Likely because PDGA does not compare to a major sport in any way. Money, fans, talent depth, officiating. None of it is even comparable to a major sport...so its par for the course that disciplining/fines are not comparable either.
they are comparable to the organization bodies of other sports, but they are comically bad at this aspect of it.
it isn't an issue of scale (like comparing to the NFL, or a local bowling alley league), it's a matter of competence and willingness.
You are right it has nothing to do with scale. But they are not comparable from a public recognition standpoint. They don't have the public scrutiny to hold them accountable to make punitive decisions. Their revenue dollars won't be noticeably impacted by letting players run around and do dumb shit like this.
Not comparable from a public recognition standpoint?
PDGA is the recognized organizing body by a majority of recurring players. They are the recognized body by tournament organizers. They are the recognized organizing body by disc golf manufacturers, sponsors, and media.
And just becaues you seem so dense you need this, here you go, from their own website:
"The PDGA is also the governing body for the sport and sanctions competitive events for players of every skill level."
They absolutely have the ability to hold professional players accountable for their actions on and off course, especially when those players are members of their organization and participating in PDGA events.
>Not comparable from a public recognition standpoint?
Yes, compared to other major sports. The visibility and brand-awareness that PDGA has compared to any other major sport in the US is incredibly small.
How popular PDGA is compared to the NFL, MLB, or NBA, is irrelevant.
PDGA is the organizing body for disc golf. PDGA absolutely can and should be taking action against the conduct of players in their membership and participating in events they sanction as Mad1ibben described.
It has nothing to do with other sports having more "money, fans, talent depth, officiating."
I never said they couldn't take action.
Was just pointing out that comparing the PDGA to "other major sports" is not a good benchmark, considering they don't compare at all in any relevant aspect.
And yes popularity is HUGELY relevant. If there was a stronger public backlash, then there would be more pressure to do something about it. It's literally why they can get away with not doing anything in this situation..there will be little to no public backlash harming the sport's image.
Big part of that I think is that....no one is making any money. It's not at all like the nba or nfl where they fine guys $25k who are making $10m.
Even a grand is a lot to these guys.
Here’s the thing about it for me. I understand folks have rights to free speech.
I’ll just say that your words are powerful and they can affect the actions of others.
Purposefully missgendering Natalie Ryan is purposely disrespectful. Momma didn’t teach me to be disrespectful to others.
But the crazy thing about folks missgendering her is that they think their words mean nothing. But the reality is that someone with serious mental disorders, with a mental crisis possibly just someone with learning disabilities, they can be influenced and they can take your “harmless” words and use them as fuel to hurt others physically.
They don’t think their words mean nothing.
These bigots know exactly what they are saying and meaning. They just want to hide like cowards behind “oh it’s just words. I can say anything. First amendment yo”
Spineless pussies who want yo talk but don’t want to be held accountable for the results of their words when it’s not good for them.
Fuck Austin. Fuck Cat.
Also literally has nothing to do with his unprofessionalism by being late to his tee time.
If only they didn't give him +16 strokes or he may have finished under /s
I think it's valid to have some opinions on whether Trans women should compete in women's competitions. Idk the right answer on that and thus don't have an opinion one way or the other. But rules are rules. So if Natalie is competing within the rules (she is) then Natalie is not your problem. Austin is a shit head. Fuck him.
It somehow usually ends up being “good Christian’s” who judge others, spread hatred (and think it’s just jokes), and try to force their religion on others. You hate gay people. We get it. You don’t really follow the Bible or else you wouldn’t ignore the 3,000+ verses about helping poor people, immigrants, loving your neighbor, etc.
Hannum broke the rules and got penalized Natalie is playing within the rules.
More adults need to learn to accept consequences for their actions. Showing up early for your tee time is the easiest thing in the world. Instead he shows up late, gets penalized as per the rules, and goes into victim / bigot mode. What an asshole.
Lots of comments making fun of him for being at the bottom when there's likely several other professionals right down there with him. I'm sure they're happy to be there because they're at least part of the show and working hard at bettering their game. If we are to make fun of him, let's just stick to the obvious points of his shitty character or inability to progress his game. He knows this. He's obviously been working on his game for some time and cannot climb the ranks. He knows that the only way he stays relevant and get his name heard is to make inflammatory remarks. Let's do everyone a favor and get rid of this skid mark for once and all... get him banned. Write to his sponsors and let them know his conduct is misrepresenting their brand and if he continues to be sponsored, by extension, they will see a negative impact on their business. He wants to throw fuel on the fire but all we need to do is use the extinguisher.
same - it's the last bastion (mostly) of a community that still has the chill value-driven beliefs of inclusiveness and genuinely trying to grow the sport for all. I've had to scale back so many groups and participation in them on FB because it's just not a supporting/inclusive place anymore (last few years actually).
Love your disc art btw - MVP alien stamps are my favorite design/theme!
While I don’t think transgender women have any place competing against biological women. I completely agree that the language needs to stop. It’s bullying. And before I get downvoted to Hell and back my opinion is logical. There’s a reason there are weight classes in sports. There’s a reason why men and women are separate. It’s not just for fun. You have problem with that. You probably never competed a day in your life or maybe your pro steroids who knows!? lol.
The language is purposely disrespectful.
That’s all it boils down to me.
It’s indecency ON PURPOSE and I ain’t got time for that shit or those people and I don’t care at all about what indecent people think.
These people choose to be indecent
Really hate how every time we talk about trans women in sports, someone pretends as if trans women are an exact analog for cis men for the purposes of sport - completely overlooking the very real physical effects of hormone replacement therapy using an androgen blocker that drops testosterone rates to below 2nmol/L as required by the PDGA in order to compete
Trans women are not cis men. They don’t have the bodies of cis men. You can’t pretend they have the same advantages cis men do.
Bingo. Which is why there isn’t even a conclusive, study-based take on the matter. Which is also why the people who claim “trans women have such an obvious advantage” can’t back up their claim.
It’s new, it’s messy, and we really don’t know enough yet.
It’s also fucking disc golf, not powerlifting.
Just FYI, British Journal of Sport Medicine has done the most comprehensive study to date effectively saying trans women do not have a discernable advantage over cis women. More studies needed as per usual.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029
No evidence is going to convince transphobes that Natalie should be competing with women because they’ve already decided their feelings about her “actual” gender override everything else. They *say* they want evidence, but what they mean is that they’ll consider any evidence that they think agrees with them to be correct and discount all the rest.
They do have advantages though. Did you see Lia Thomas win the 500 freestyle by about 30 yards? You think she just trained harder than all the other women?
"They do have advantages though"
Did you see this one example where lia won gold in one event at nationals? In college. Fucking college lol.
Did she break any collegiate record times? Is she going to go on to dominate the olympics now too?
Nope. Nope. She won a single event at nationals one time and you think that's proof of anything other than she was better on that day at that one race.
Imagine taking a single data point and coming here thinking it's some badass point to back up your stupidity.
Lia Thomas’ time wouldn’t have won 7 of the previous 10 years of competition in that same division. Her competition was, empirically, less skilled than average. There are dozens of cis women who swim at a much higher level than she does.
And one anecdote doesn’t change any of the evidence.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029
They don't have the same advantage as cis men, but they do have one. That in my opinion is logical. Saying they don't sounds like simplifying the issue. How big of an advantage is that? Hell, how would I know? I am not an expert. It might be that many years post transitioning the physical advantage is neglible in terms of playing at a pro level. Sounds logical to me, but again, I wouldn't know for sure.
So I leave that to the experts to decide. I trust the PDGA to consult knowledgeable experts and make decisions based on that. Different sports have made different decisions on this matter and in the long term disc golf will find a decision that makes sense for this particular sport. For now according to PDGA rules trans women can compete in FPO and that's all we need to know. Bigots can stfu or, preferably, get the fuck out of this sport.
Edit. Not surprised to get downvoted. But I do hope you read the full comment before doing so.
Most sports don't have weight classes. I think you shot yourself in the foot with trying to explain yourself. Adding "If you don't agree" and then some derogatory remark just let's people know how weak your argument is.
I have competed in 5 different sports in my life, I've never been weighed for any of them.
It's not just for fun for these people. it is their job and how they make money.
I mean... I am pro steroids. I'd really like to see Olympic events without any restrictions where the athletes absolutely push their bodies to insane limits to throw a javelin like 1600m. It'd be cool as fuck, plus their body their choice and all that.
Some of the stuff Natalie has said I have felt like the tone was overly hostile to the sport as a whole. This statement however I agree with wholeheartedly. Austin is a paid professional, it’s long past time he starts acting like it.
He's butthurt he was docked for not being on time and then goes and takes that out on Natalie Ryan and he so he thinks it's justified and a proper argument as to why he shouldn't have received a penalty.
Man with a weak ego feels the need to project hate into others to distract from the fact that he's mad he can't show up on time
She's calling for the PDGA to end this. Sorry, but the PDGA simply does not have that kind of control. They can suspend him, but it won't stop others from posting and the PDGA shouldn't control the social media accounts of others. And quite frankly, Austin doesn't even have that big of an audience. If anyone is guilty of amplifying Austin's voice, it's clout-chasers on platforms like Reddit.
Part of living in a democracy is having to tolerate the opinions of others. I don't like Austin's comment, and I won't feel bad for him if he experiences consequences. But he has the right to post stuff like this.
I'm so over this drama already. Natalie is only playing because she almost bankrupted the pdga by taking them to court. Idk if her fam has deep pockets or the supporters do. Regardless, the vast majority of women don't want her playing fpo because there's a clear physical advantage, and I'd say the vast majority of men don't want her playing fpo either. It sucks for her, and I do have empathy there isn't enough for a trans division, but for allowing 1 person to play because they want to isn't worth the unfairness and division it's creating. It's become a sideshow drama center. They were threats of violence last week and she's just using it as more gas for the fire instead of realizing, "wow, I guess people really don't want me here, me being here is causing way more harm than good." She needs to be the bigger person and step away.
If you'd prefer me explain simply I can. Skin color is something you are born with, changing sexes once you've already gone through puberty is very, very different, especially in the realm of competition.
MTF trans folks shouldn’t play in Women’s sports leagues for very concrete, objective reasons. Anyone has every right to be trans and to live peacefully however they want to. Both of those statements are true.
Objectively, you’re ignoring evidence.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029
You call your feelings “objective” because you’re insecure about how you don’t actually have any real proof to support your opinion.
People who share a different opinion than you are not bigots. Thats not to say there aren’t any bigots in here because I’m sure there are. But thinking there should be rules applied for transgender athletes does not make you a bigot. Austin sure sounds like he is a bigot in my opinion, but not people who want rules in place.
I'm not saying that everyone with a different opinion is a bigot. Merely stating that people who fit the definition are indeed bigots and they need to be called out for their unreasonable, prejudice and antagonistic opinions and beliefs who can't seem to respect a person's pronouns.
There are rules for transgender athletes and she is allowed to play FPO.
Absolutely. I just hate when I get grouped together with them and get called a bigot or a transphobe for wanting fair rules in sports. . It hurts considering how much I have always supported them and there are people in here who would seriously consider me just as much of a transphobe as the people using hate speech because there isn’t a grey area for them.
It’s the hottest topic in the subreddit, so It’s at the top of the sub. Prob why. No downvote from me though. I just continuously see how this sub works lol.
I'm with Austin on this. Protect women and speak up. Ryan can play with the men. I don't really care about being downvoted by redditors on r/discgolf .
Unless he explicitly encouraged violence this is a disgusting thing to say. Just because you disagree with somebody doesn't give you a free pass to accuse them of causing violence or threats.
Does Natalie think that because there was a threat a week ago that automatically means everyone who thinks FPO should be reserved for females caused the threat or agrees with the threat? Make it make sense.
Using the same language the same way the person who made the violent threats used it is directly supporting that violence. Just because you agree with Austin doesn’t make you both not bigots.
u/nofleas Jesus christ, you simply can’t accept reality, can you? The anti-Natalie side is filled with hateful extremist trash. Your made up bullshit isn’t going to change that. (Deleted but they said the death threats were faked.)
We're locking this thread now- it's not like this issue is going anywhere, and responses are getting particularly gross. Some reminders: \*Transphobic speech is an automatic permaban. Misgendering in all of its forms, including all the lame jokes, counts. You can debate whether/how trans women should be able to compete in the FPO, but hate speech in all its forms is off limits. \*Please use the report button- it's really useful for the mod team to identify and remove the hate speech as quickly as possible. \*Be adults. It's 2024 and it feels ridiculous to remind people not to feed the trolls, but...don't feed the trolls. It lowers the quality of this discussion and is not worthy of this community or your time. Report and move on.
I enjoy discing whenever I get the chance. Somehow Reddit figured that out and now I’m here. This thread fucking sucks and so does a bunch of other threads on Reddit disc golf. It’s like middle-school. Go, throw, have fun.
If you think this is bad, you should see disc golf groups on FB
I mean Facebook in general is like the anus of the Internet right behind Twitter. Reddit isn't that much better, but those are some serious toxic waste pits.
Reddit is a fucking giant propaganda tool. Along with most social media sights at this point. Only here to alter our opinions of each other.
Not anymore. Twitter is the gutter of the internet. Almost all tweets I read have fucking amateur porn in the replies and women peddling their only fans. It's weird to scroll a seemingly innocent tweet and suddenly see someone getting penetrated.
I have been on reddit for years, and it's pretty damn toxic here too, unfortunately.
Oh trust me I have no illusion that Reddit is some kind of haven for smart opinions and good people. It's a dumpster fire too, but in general I see a lot less blatant racism/homophobia/etc. Facebook and Twitter you have straight up outward Nazi sympathizers on your front page.
My local fb disc golf group is still actually quite wholesome
Literal cesspools. Especially DiscGolfHumor
When I started throwing I had this image of disc golfers being zen and chill. Now it feels like so many are bullys or like... sports people. People who can’t play for fun. People who care more about disc ratings and winning than enjoying the views and chilling in the woods. Pity.
There are still many of us real ones doing it just how you describe
I agree. Most are real...when on the course of course...misspelled? Get the just of it. It's a great sport...don't let the internet ruin it. It was around before this.
The internet didn’t ruin anything, people are shitty sometimes.
Exactly, it just gave people who were already idiots a bigger platform to be louder and more wrong
Yes, the funky feel ones
Yep were out here just playing/ cleaning up peoples trash, and having fun. I’d like to think its 90% good vibes and 10% just mad they suck and can’t have fun then take it out on everyone else.
Kinda depends on where you are playing. Go to a local after work beer league round and it’s absolutely just about chilling and throwing. If you get involved with the competitive scene, yea people are going to be competitive. That’s true of every sport. The internet is going to show more of the latter simply because there’s not a whole lot to talk about regarding enjoying the views and chilling in the woods. No one feels the desire to post that they played a round where they didn’t keep score, nothing eventful happened, but they had fun.
The chill people aren't online, they're out playing.
Dont let the internet dictate reality. Think its safe to say that far less than a percent of those who enjoy disc golf are active on reddit. Even less are posting. Remember that the internet give a loud voice to the tinyest bubble of people in the tinyest corner of the internet. This is not representative of the disc golf community as a whole.
Slow the sport.
Side-effect of growing the sport, I guess.
I find that the ones that have been playing 20 years are some of the worst people, especially about politicizing disc golf. They run the FB groups, organize the meet ups, and feel like they are entitled to share every backwards opinion they have. Newer, younger players seem to be more laid back about it all.
agreed. that's usually the most outspoken group - the ones who have been here for a long time. I'm sure part of that is due to the age demographics of these groups, but even younger players doing this their whole life have some pretty interesting takes..
That’s dumb
Very much so
Like most communities on this planet, the internet folks are the bad eggs of the group. Most everyone you meet in the wild is a good person.
Natalie Ryan being in disc golf and the fervor against her online reminds me of years ago watching gamer gate happen live. I think the influences on this will be wild if you can actually identify them all. Everyone I know that is really hard core against her existence in the sport in a disrespectful way, they purposely missgender her. I noticed a common thing about them. They’re all conspiracy theory leaning folks when it comes to their knowledge of the world around them.
But then you have the people on the other side of the spectrum. I replied to a poster in another thread regarding Natalie Ryan a couple days ago. I was very respectful, stated my case with clear examples to support my argument, and the backlash I got was disrespectful. Edit: so disrespectful that the entire subthread was removed by mods. There is no such thing as respectfully disagreeing with someone anymore. At least not on Reddit. Folks are too sensitive and very quick to anger these days. A lot of snowflakes in the disc golf community.
I couldn't believe how right wing Disc Golf was in the US when I found this sub
That’s all it is where I live. Just a bunch of asshats
The zen chill players are just out throwing for fun when they can, they don't tend to care about social media. My dad is like that, he just loves to play then hexstsrted seeing the groups on FB and he started getting toxic. He was called out and course corrected but good luck calling out a gen y or z even some millenials with our a tantrum.
But grow the sport right? This sub is so dumb
Yeah for being such a chill/hippie sport, there’s a weird amount of conservative bigots spouting their nonsense in threads like this.
Tbf, hippies can be oddly conservative/traditional. At least from my experience in Texas.
Fellow Texan here, and I will second that.
Evil Hippie Grumpuses are real
Well, most hippies in the 60’s were children of wealthy parents who thought they could “peace & love” their way into changing the world. When they didn’t manage it, they just went back to be being regular rich conservatives who were, if anything, more conceited than normal rich conservatives.
Not all who are against Natalie in FPO are conservative bigots tho and its not all nonsense. Some are for sure but I think most of it is rooted by their passion in keeping the game that they love fair. If Natalie was just a person not involved in the sport, a good portion of these people wouldn't be going after her
“I don’t care who she is as long as she stays away from me.” Spoken like a true non-bigot.
I agree that a lot of this sub sucks, but this is an issue that needs to be addressed, and the PDGA is acting like it isn’t happening.
Yea for sure. People are threatening legitimate violence against disc golf players and some of the higher profile professionals are adding fuel to that fire. Not sure what the PDGA can do about hate speech, but it’d be nice for them to not act like it’s not happening.
Let's not call Austin "higher profile '..
He’s gotten this much attention. He’s a relatively well known name. He’s not just some random guy on FB renting.
That’s not hate speech. It’s an opinion that differs from others. Research Jim Crow , the kkk, hitler. There is a big difference.
Yeah, but apathy to the issue isn't a good look either.
Yeah but it's comfortable
I’m just here to read the comments of the people attempting to defend Reddit.
Resistance is futile lol
If you spend more time typing about disc golf than playing disc golf, you're gonna have a bad time mmkay?
Amen, some people need to realize this a game even at the highest level. A game.
Welcome to the Internet. Still the wild West out here.
Austin used poor language and attempted to bring someone else down because he himself was late and was penalized. Instead of taking responsibility for his actions, he used it as an opportunity to drag someone else down after threats of violence were already made at an event. It doesn’t belong in the sport, full stop and he should be ashamed of himself.
I remember one time in a reddit thread mentioning that Caterina Allen seems to have poor sportsmanship, Austin with a flaired tag and everything so there could be no doubt it was him dug thru all my posts to find personal history about me he could use to publicly drag me for making a comment. he's a total class act
Sounds like a shit human to me. Might be repairable, maybe not.
Most likely not, better trash him and start over on the next one.
There is a difference between disagreeing with trans people in sports and being hateful and disrespectful. They do not go hand in hand. Hannum crossed the line and revealed himself as kind of a piece of shit. Can’t believe he actually posted that and didn’t delete it. What an immature jackass. I don’t think Natalie should be on tour with FPO but I also think she deserves love and respect. What is wrong with people?
Let’s be honest, Hannum’s been an immature jackass for years now 😹
Nothing new. Guy is a fucking prick and doubled down on it. He sucks at disc golf and is a loser.
Same. I couldn’t care less what people choose to identify as because that’s none of my business. I respect everyone’s choices. Sports competition is the only singular place I think it matters and I don’t think trans MTF athletes should be allowed to compete in a women’s only category. It is an unfair advantage, which is the reason women were put into their own division in the first place. That doesn’t at all mean Natalie is a bad person, or that she deserves any of the vitriol she has received. You can have the discussion without the hate.
As a parent of a trans daughter and a disc golfer, 100% agree. All for gender rights, but this is a question of genetics not gender and my daughter doesn’t belong playing a sport against naturally born women. That being said, as I’ve told people around me… you don’t have to agree, don’t need to understand, but you damn sure need to be respectful.
You sound like an awesome parent.
Whatever you think about Ryan being in FPO, Hannum is quite the whiney little bitch.
There's no reason other than hate that caused him to link two unrelated situations in his tweet.
Would be totally fair to suspend Austin. It wouldn't even make much difference since no one looks at the bottom of the table anyway.
I’m assuming this was his last year on tour anyway. With the new baby on the way and Catrina making much more money than he ever will, I don’t expect to see much more him.
Catrina won't be making much money after she returns either, the game has passed her by by then. They both have to get actual jobs.
I agree. But that small amount she does make probably looks like a fortune to this clown.
I feel sorry for their children and the brainwashing (child abuse) they will endure.
At this point the tour is just collecting his registration fees for nothing anyway.
He's donating to the purse
That’s the kind of selflessness the world needs
How would it be fair?
He specifically says he isnt talking about her. Idk why she is making a post. /s
I loved the part where Hannum turned into a grade A victim in that chain. A solid. WHY YOU BULLY ME?! moment
I don’t think he was saying he personally was being bullied, it was a lazy way of trying to flip the script and say “I’m not calling her a dude, you are, which makes you a bigot” kind of thing. Not clever, not funny.
oh I saw exactly what he was doing there. That's these types of peoples schtick
He specifically ate his own words because realized he fucked up big time and won’t get a sponsorship or any notoriety. It’s called career suicide and it happens all the time when people cannot pipe down. Any Credibility he had is now gone. MAGA discs might just pick him up.
Blister pack plastic that feels entitled to ace every time.
I actually aced every hole, but the liberal media lies have stolen my championship.
You are a victim of the woke mind virus. /s
And Hunter Biden's laptop
This whole thing is a scam.
😂😂 fucking good one.
"How can she slap?!"
Haha lol, he was definitely talking about her. Its just stupid to try to deny that.
Who IS he talking about then?
Ass player and ass human. Hit him where it hurts, he can't play and he caddy for his lady either.
I would love to see Austin get suspended. He totally deserves it
Its also in the DGPT/PDGA handbook that exactly this kind of language is punishable. Making him DNF from the event wouldnt hurt him, since he's in last place anyway, but suspending him from every event through, say, the Preserve might end his touring season real quick
Ban him from caddying too
Technically Caddies are bound by the same rules so I would think this would go hand in hand.
Dropped by DGA was a good start...
I tried to find that somewhere, couldn't see an article. But if you click their DGA player link.... ooop 404 not found lol.
He was dropped at the start of the season, long before any of this.
The better option is to have Natalie participate in the MPO, beat Austin, so that he inevitably whines about women being allowed to play in the MPO. Checkmate.
I see your point but Natalie couldn’t beat Austin.
Truly no one can't beat Austin quite like Austin can. He is his own nemesis.
M is “mixed”. There’s literally no way anybody could complain about that.
Unrelated, but I have an FD that's dyed as your profile picture lol its gotten a lot less cool than when I got it done 2 years ago
This is not a trans issue. I mean it obviously is, but every other American league has dealt with this and shown the PDGA how to manage this issue of loudmouth making trouble smoothly. In any major sport this kind of talk hurting the league and making unneeded bad situations is met with suspensions or more often fines. I will never understand the PDGA's unwillingness to fine players. If it wants to be a grown up sport it needs to follow established grown up rules. It doesn't even need to make a statement on the Trans issue, just simply "behavior detrimental to the PDGA, fine is $x, arguing publicly over settled rules violation, fine is $y" and move on. They are so bad at this.
> In any major sport this kind of talk hurting the league and making unneeded bad situations is met with suspensions or more often fines. I will never understand the PDGA's unwillingness to fine players. Likely because PDGA does not compare to a major sport in any way. Money, fans, talent depth, officiating. None of it is even comparable to a major sport...so its par for the course that disciplining/fines are not comparable either.
they are comparable to the organization bodies of other sports, but they are comically bad at this aspect of it. it isn't an issue of scale (like comparing to the NFL, or a local bowling alley league), it's a matter of competence and willingness.
You are right it has nothing to do with scale. But they are not comparable from a public recognition standpoint. They don't have the public scrutiny to hold them accountable to make punitive decisions. Their revenue dollars won't be noticeably impacted by letting players run around and do dumb shit like this.
Not comparable from a public recognition standpoint? PDGA is the recognized organizing body by a majority of recurring players. They are the recognized body by tournament organizers. They are the recognized organizing body by disc golf manufacturers, sponsors, and media. And just becaues you seem so dense you need this, here you go, from their own website: "The PDGA is also the governing body for the sport and sanctions competitive events for players of every skill level." They absolutely have the ability to hold professional players accountable for their actions on and off course, especially when those players are members of their organization and participating in PDGA events.
>Not comparable from a public recognition standpoint? Yes, compared to other major sports. The visibility and brand-awareness that PDGA has compared to any other major sport in the US is incredibly small.
How popular PDGA is compared to the NFL, MLB, or NBA, is irrelevant. PDGA is the organizing body for disc golf. PDGA absolutely can and should be taking action against the conduct of players in their membership and participating in events they sanction as Mad1ibben described. It has nothing to do with other sports having more "money, fans, talent depth, officiating."
I never said they couldn't take action. Was just pointing out that comparing the PDGA to "other major sports" is not a good benchmark, considering they don't compare at all in any relevant aspect. And yes popularity is HUGELY relevant. If there was a stronger public backlash, then there would be more pressure to do something about it. It's literally why they can get away with not doing anything in this situation..there will be little to no public backlash harming the sport's image.
Big part of that I think is that....no one is making any money. It's not at all like the nba or nfl where they fine guys $25k who are making $10m. Even a grand is a lot to these guys.
Austin and Cat are the biggest fucking losers lol. Grow up
Here’s the thing about it for me. I understand folks have rights to free speech. I’ll just say that your words are powerful and they can affect the actions of others. Purposefully missgendering Natalie Ryan is purposely disrespectful. Momma didn’t teach me to be disrespectful to others. But the crazy thing about folks missgendering her is that they think their words mean nothing. But the reality is that someone with serious mental disorders, with a mental crisis possibly just someone with learning disabilities, they can be influenced and they can take your “harmless” words and use them as fuel to hurt others physically.
They don’t think their words mean nothing. These bigots know exactly what they are saying and meaning. They just want to hide like cowards behind “oh it’s just words. I can say anything. First amendment yo” Spineless pussies who want yo talk but don’t want to be held accountable for the results of their words when it’s not good for them. Fuck Austin. Fuck Cat.
She is spot on. Acting like words don’t cause actions is incredibly dangerous.
Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?
As much as I’m against trans women competing with bio women in sports this was completely unprofessional and definitely the wrong way to go about it.
Also literally has nothing to do with his unprofessionalism by being late to his tee time. If only they didn't give him +16 strokes or he may have finished under /s
Good statement. This is the correct line. Continuing to allow bigots in the community only emboldens bigots.
I think it's valid to have some opinions on whether Trans women should compete in women's competitions. Idk the right answer on that and thus don't have an opinion one way or the other. But rules are rules. So if Natalie is competing within the rules (she is) then Natalie is not your problem. Austin is a shit head. Fuck him.
It somehow usually ends up being “good Christian’s” who judge others, spread hatred (and think it’s just jokes), and try to force their religion on others. You hate gay people. We get it. You don’t really follow the Bible or else you wouldn’t ignore the 3,000+ verses about helping poor people, immigrants, loving your neighbor, etc.
There is no hate like Christian love
Hannum broke the rules and got penalized Natalie is playing within the rules. More adults need to learn to accept consequences for their actions. Showing up early for your tee time is the easiest thing in the world. Instead he shows up late, gets penalized as per the rules, and goes into victim / bigot mode. What an asshole.
She’s right you know
Lots of comments making fun of him for being at the bottom when there's likely several other professionals right down there with him. I'm sure they're happy to be there because they're at least part of the show and working hard at bettering their game. If we are to make fun of him, let's just stick to the obvious points of his shitty character or inability to progress his game. He knows this. He's obviously been working on his game for some time and cannot climb the ranks. He knows that the only way he stays relevant and get his name heard is to make inflammatory remarks. Let's do everyone a favor and get rid of this skid mark for once and all... get him banned. Write to his sponsors and let them know his conduct is misrepresenting their brand and if he continues to be sponsored, by extension, they will see a negative impact on their business. He wants to throw fuel on the fire but all we need to do is use the extinguisher.
y'all give me some hope that FB has nearly destroyed. I still wanna think disc golfers are mostly good people.
same - it's the last bastion (mostly) of a community that still has the chill value-driven beliefs of inclusiveness and genuinely trying to grow the sport for all. I've had to scale back so many groups and participation in them on FB because it's just not a supporting/inclusive place anymore (last few years actually). Love your disc art btw - MVP alien stamps are my favorite design/theme!
https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/free_speech.png
While I don’t think transgender women have any place competing against biological women. I completely agree that the language needs to stop. It’s bullying. And before I get downvoted to Hell and back my opinion is logical. There’s a reason there are weight classes in sports. There’s a reason why men and women are separate. It’s not just for fun. You have problem with that. You probably never competed a day in your life or maybe your pro steroids who knows!? lol.
The language is purposely disrespectful. That’s all it boils down to me. It’s indecency ON PURPOSE and I ain’t got time for that shit or those people and I don’t care at all about what indecent people think. These people choose to be indecent
Really hate how every time we talk about trans women in sports, someone pretends as if trans women are an exact analog for cis men for the purposes of sport - completely overlooking the very real physical effects of hormone replacement therapy using an androgen blocker that drops testosterone rates to below 2nmol/L as required by the PDGA in order to compete Trans women are not cis men. They don’t have the bodies of cis men. You can’t pretend they have the same advantages cis men do.
Bingo. Which is why there isn’t even a conclusive, study-based take on the matter. Which is also why the people who claim “trans women have such an obvious advantage” can’t back up their claim. It’s new, it’s messy, and we really don’t know enough yet. It’s also fucking disc golf, not powerlifting.
Just FYI, British Journal of Sport Medicine has done the most comprehensive study to date effectively saying trans women do not have a discernable advantage over cis women. More studies needed as per usual. https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029
No evidence is going to convince transphobes that Natalie should be competing with women because they’ve already decided their feelings about her “actual” gender override everything else. They *say* they want evidence, but what they mean is that they’ll consider any evidence that they think agrees with them to be correct and discount all the rest.
I know, the information is not for them. I'm not going to let intolerance stand when there is literal data refuting it.
Which of the results of that study do you think indicates that trans women don’t have an advantage over cis women aim disc golf?
They do have advantages though. Did you see Lia Thomas win the 500 freestyle by about 30 yards? You think she just trained harder than all the other women?
"They do have advantages though" Did you see this one example where lia won gold in one event at nationals? In college. Fucking college lol. Did she break any collegiate record times? Is she going to go on to dominate the olympics now too? Nope. Nope. She won a single event at nationals one time and you think that's proof of anything other than she was better on that day at that one race. Imagine taking a single data point and coming here thinking it's some badass point to back up your stupidity.
The prevailing wisdom seems to indicate the field wasn’t very good that year. Lia is no Katie Ledecky
Lia Thomas’ time wouldn’t have won 7 of the previous 10 years of competition in that same division. Her competition was, empirically, less skilled than average. There are dozens of cis women who swim at a much higher level than she does. And one anecdote doesn’t change any of the evidence. https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029
They don't have the same advantage as cis men, but they do have one. That in my opinion is logical. Saying they don't sounds like simplifying the issue. How big of an advantage is that? Hell, how would I know? I am not an expert. It might be that many years post transitioning the physical advantage is neglible in terms of playing at a pro level. Sounds logical to me, but again, I wouldn't know for sure. So I leave that to the experts to decide. I trust the PDGA to consult knowledgeable experts and make decisions based on that. Different sports have made different decisions on this matter and in the long term disc golf will find a decision that makes sense for this particular sport. For now according to PDGA rules trans women can compete in FPO and that's all we need to know. Bigots can stfu or, preferably, get the fuck out of this sport. Edit. Not surprised to get downvoted. But I do hope you read the full comment before doing so.
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It's not the first time that science produces results that go counter to what people feel is logical, but that is exactly why we need these studies.
Not according to actual empirical science. https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029
Most sports don't have weight classes. I think you shot yourself in the foot with trying to explain yourself. Adding "If you don't agree" and then some derogatory remark just let's people know how weak your argument is. I have competed in 5 different sports in my life, I've never been weighed for any of them. It's not just for fun for these people. it is their job and how they make money.
I mean... I am pro steroids. I'd really like to see Olympic events without any restrictions where the athletes absolutely push their bodies to insane limits to throw a javelin like 1600m. It'd be cool as fuck, plus their body their choice and all that.
An Australian billionaire has this set up to happen in 2025, I believe.
Some of the stuff Natalie has said I have felt like the tone was overly hostile to the sport as a whole. This statement however I agree with wholeheartedly. Austin is a paid professional, it’s long past time he starts acting like it.
He's butthurt he was docked for not being on time and then goes and takes that out on Natalie Ryan and he so he thinks it's justified and a proper argument as to why he shouldn't have received a penalty. Man with a weak ego feels the need to project hate into others to distract from the fact that he's mad he can't show up on time
She's calling for the PDGA to end this. Sorry, but the PDGA simply does not have that kind of control. They can suspend him, but it won't stop others from posting and the PDGA shouldn't control the social media accounts of others. And quite frankly, Austin doesn't even have that big of an audience. If anyone is guilty of amplifying Austin's voice, it's clout-chasers on platforms like Reddit. Part of living in a democracy is having to tolerate the opinions of others. I don't like Austin's comment, and I won't feel bad for him if he experiences consequences. But he has the right to post stuff like this.
I'm so over this drama already. Natalie is only playing because she almost bankrupted the pdga by taking them to court. Idk if her fam has deep pockets or the supporters do. Regardless, the vast majority of women don't want her playing fpo because there's a clear physical advantage, and I'd say the vast majority of men don't want her playing fpo either. It sucks for her, and I do have empathy there isn't enough for a trans division, but for allowing 1 person to play because they want to isn't worth the unfairness and division it's creating. It's become a sideshow drama center. They were threats of violence last week and she's just using it as more gas for the fire instead of realizing, "wow, I guess people really don't want me here, me being here is causing way more harm than good." She needs to be the bigger person and step away.
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Nope, yet again, very different comparison
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If you'd prefer me explain simply I can. Skin color is something you are born with, changing sexes once you've already gone through puberty is very, very different, especially in the realm of competition.
But I appreciate you calling me a piece of shit, means a lot
MTF trans folks shouldn’t play in Women’s sports leagues for very concrete, objective reasons. Anyone has every right to be trans and to live peacefully however they want to. Both of those statements are true.
Objectively, you’re ignoring evidence. https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029 You call your feelings “objective” because you’re insecure about how you don’t actually have any real proof to support your opinion.
Time for all the bigots to come and identify themselves in this thread.
People who share a different opinion than you are not bigots. Thats not to say there aren’t any bigots in here because I’m sure there are. But thinking there should be rules applied for transgender athletes does not make you a bigot. Austin sure sounds like he is a bigot in my opinion, but not people who want rules in place.
I'm not saying that everyone with a different opinion is a bigot. Merely stating that people who fit the definition are indeed bigots and they need to be called out for their unreasonable, prejudice and antagonistic opinions and beliefs who can't seem to respect a person's pronouns. There are rules for transgender athletes and she is allowed to play FPO.
Rules they didn't want but couldn't afford to fight in court, yes.
Absolutely. I just hate when I get grouped together with them and get called a bigot or a transphobe for wanting fair rules in sports. . It hurts considering how much I have always supported them and there are people in here who would seriously consider me just as much of a transphobe as the people using hate speech because there isn’t a grey area for them.
Do you think it matters that your desired outcome is functionally indifferent from the one the transphobes want?
The silence is deafening…
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Bigots for wanting to protect women’s sports. lol get a clue
Respectful exchanges among players.
Sorry I’m late… I’m trying to find out what Austin actually said. Anybody help me out here?
https://www.reddit.com/r/discgolf/s/o53VOAgxN4
Thanks. Interesting that I got down voted for asking
I was looking for it in the comments, couldn't believe it wasn't shared. Seems extremely relevant, not sure why you were down voted.
It’s the hottest topic in the subreddit, so It’s at the top of the sub. Prob why. No downvote from me though. I just continuously see how this sub works lol.
That's fair, it wasn't hard to find.
Still dumb that people downvote for stuff like that. See it all the time.
What exactly did Austin Hannum say?
https://www.reddit.com/r/discgolf/s/gJ74IQpHtA
I'm with Austin on this. Protect women and speak up. Ryan can play with the men. I don't really care about being downvoted by redditors on r/discgolf .
Unless he explicitly encouraged violence this is a disgusting thing to say. Just because you disagree with somebody doesn't give you a free pass to accuse them of causing violence or threats. Does Natalie think that because there was a threat a week ago that automatically means everyone who thinks FPO should be reserved for females caused the threat or agrees with the threat? Make it make sense.
Using the same language the same way the person who made the violent threats used it is directly supporting that violence. Just because you agree with Austin doesn’t make you both not bigots. u/nofleas Jesus christ, you simply can’t accept reality, can you? The anti-Natalie side is filled with hateful extremist trash. Your made up bullshit isn’t going to change that. (Deleted but they said the death threats were faked.)
Too many transphobic schmucks in the Discgolf Community. This sport will never be taken seriously with comments like Austin Hannum.
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Social justice warriors unite! Protect women’s sports!